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View Full Version : Is wine making traditional in your country?Name a few traditional wine varieties



mihaitzateo
20-01-15, 13:51
I guess almost everyone knows that wine making is traditional in France and that Cabernet,Pinot,Sauvignon etc are traditional wine grapes from France.
However,I think other countries from Europe have also wine making as traditional and also have some or more local grape varieties.

Since I am from Romania,I can say that wine making is traditional here,especially in Moldavia and Muntenia,Oltenia,Dobrogea and is also traditional in some areas of Transylvania.
As traditional wine varieties from Romania:
white wine - feteasca alba,feteasca regala,tamaioasa,grasa de cotnari etc
rose wine - busuioaca de bohotin
red/dark red/dark red towards black wine (in Romanian red wine is also called black wine) - feteasca neagra,babeasca neagra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_wine

Mars
20-01-15, 19:09
Wine making is maybe the strongest and oldest tradition we have here in Liguria (NW Italy), just like it is in almost every region of my country, from North to South.
We have white, red and rose wine varieties. Vineyards are smaller than in Emilia or Piedmont, but the wine produced in Liguria is often highly rated by experts around the world. We produce sciacchetrà (white, but I think there is a rose variety in the western Riviera), vermentino (white), pigato (white), ormeasco (red), rossese (red). Here in Genoa there was a very typical wine, I don't if some producers are left honestly. It was called coronata, but more commonly "gianchin" (literally "little white" in ligurian dialect), and it was a breakfast "must-drink" for many generations in the past, combined with a good chunk of focaccia (a typical local "street food", somehow similar to bread).
Wines from our neighobours of Piedmont are largely in use, too: Piedmont is one of the biggest wine-producing areas in Europe, and we have always had strong connections with them, too. Rossese, for example, is a local variety originated by famous piedmontaise dolcetto vine variety.

Angela
20-01-15, 20:48
Straddling the border area between eastern Liguria and Massa Carrara you also have the wines of the Colli di Luni. The reds are good, but the whites are even better. Some famous American restaurateurs, Mario Batalli and Joseph Bastianich, are big fans.

http://www.babbonyc.com/sommeliers_pick/liguria-2/colli-di-luni/
http://www.veritasinvinosemper.it/wp-content/uploads/28078.jpg

It has a wonderful taste of fruit, as the advertisement indicates. Also great with focaccia, as well as any fish, trofie al pesto etc.

Maleth
20-01-15, 23:38
The local indigenous grapes are the Gellewza (makes red wine) and Girgentiana (white wine), Red is my favourite

​http://www.wine-searcher.com/grape-2015-gellewza

Mars
21-01-15, 13:28
The local indigenous grapes are the Gellewza (makes red wine) and Girgentiana (white wine), Red is my favourite

​http://www.wine-searcher.com/grape-2015-gellewza
Girgentiana has some affinity with the word Girgenti, that means Agrigento in sicilian if I'm not wrong. Agrigento is a city south of Palermo, famous for the Temples Valley (an area with amazing temples built by ancient Greeks). Maybe the original vine variety came from there, like the rossese/dolcetto "duality" I explained before.

Maleth
21-01-15, 14:30
Girgentiana has some affinity with the word Girgenti, that means Agrigento in sicilian if I'm not wrong. Agrigento is a city south of Palermo, famous for the Temples Valley (an area with amazing temples built by ancient Greeks). Maybe the original vine variety came from there, like the rossese/dolcetto "duality" I explained before.

You are correct, Agrigentum was the name given to the city in the south of Sicily (which was a Greek settlement with the name of Akragas). The same name was given to a large fertile area in the North West of Malta (not far from the Castle, today's Mdina or Cita Nobile as was called by the knights). It is possible that the Girgentina wine variety was introduced from Agrigento, (I am not sure if the same variety is found) On the other hand it was known for grapes to be grown locally since Phoenician times as they used to trade it too amongst other goods, so I am not sure if its a similar variety. Because of the geographical location different sun intensities and proximity to the sea even if they were introduced from the same source they could have evolved into a different species. The same thing has happened example with Maltese oranges. They have evolved into a variety of its own due to type of soil and environmental factors.

Maleth
23-04-15, 11:12
Were the first grape wines fermented in what is todays Georgia? Here is an interesting article from National Geographic.

http://outofedenwalk.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/14/ghost-of-the-vine/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=link_fbge20150423rootsofwine&utm_campaign=Content&sf8738350=1

Angela
23-04-15, 13:53
Were the first grape wines fermented in what is todays Georgia? Here is an interesting article from National Geographic.

http://outofedenwalk.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/14/ghost-of-the-vine/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=link_fbge20150423rootsofwine&utm_campaign=Content&sf8738350=1

What a great article. It sort of serendipitously goes along with the thread I posted about the connection between protective mutations against alcoholism and an early transition to agriculture. There in Georgia it's 8,000 BC.

I thought this was particularly interesting:

"Human beings have been consuming alcohol for so long that 10 percent of the enzymes in our livers (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alcohol-an-astonishing-molecule/) have evolved to metabolize it into energy: a sure sign of tippling’s antiquity. The oldest hard evidence of intentional fermentation comes from northern China, where chemical residues in pottery suggest that 9,000 years ago our ancestors quaffed a dawn cocktail of rice, honey and wild fruit."

"From the beginning, wine was more than a mere intoxicant. It was an elixir. Its alcohol content and tree resins, added in ancient times as wine preservatives, had anti-bacterial qualities. In ages when sanitation was abysmal, drinking wine—or mixing it with water—reduced disease. Wine saved lives."

It was certainly a part of my life from childhood. Children used to be given what was called "baptized wine"...two fingers of wine topped off with water. I wonder if it started as a way to purify water? It certainly never gave me any inclination to alcoholism! I've been tipsy from drink twice in my entire life. I remember them both vividly...:sad-2:

I wonder if they're right about this or if it's a bit of hyperbole. I don't know enough about the archaeology to come to any conclusion.

"Batiuk is talking about an iconic diaspora of the classical world: the expansion of Early Trans-Caucasian Culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kura%E2%80%93Araxes_culture) (ETC), which radiated from the Caucasus into eastern Turkey, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the Levantine world in the third millennium B.C.

Batiuk was struck by a pattern (http://www.academia.edu/4453528/The_Fruits_of_Migration_Understanding_the_longue_d ure%C3%A9_and_the_socio-economic_relations_of_the_Early_Transcaucasian_Cul ture): Distinctive ETC pottery pops up wherever grape cultivation occurs.
“These migrants seemed to be using wine technology as their contribution to society,” he says. “They weren’t ‘taking my job.’ They were showing up with seeds or grape cuttings and bringing a new job—viticulture, or at least refinements to viticulture. They were an additive element. They sort of democratized wine. Wherever they go, you see an explosion of wine goblets.”
ETC pottery endured as a distinctive archaeological signature for 700 to 1,000 years after leaving the Caucasus. This boggles experts such as Batiuk. Most immigrant cultures become integrated, absorbed, and vanish after just three generations. But there is no mystery here."

Maleth
23-04-15, 17:21
I thought this was particularly interesting:

"Human beings have been consuming alcohol for so long that 10 percent of the enzymes in our livers (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alcohol-an-astonishing-molecule/) have evolved to metabolize it into energy: a sure sign of tippling’s antiquity. The oldest hard evidence of intentional fermentation comes from northern China, where chemical residues in pottery suggest that 9,000 years ago our ancestors quaffed a dawn cocktail of rice, honey and wild fruit."

That was a great analysis. I found this quite interesting too. Thank you for the link it was very informative. I guess much of the food and drink we have today might have been discovered maybe accidentally (at least I know of Blue (mouldy) cheese and Worcester sauce...yum yum) and in a situation were nothing used to be thrown away and at least tried once to avoid disposing of. I wonder how many people died or got really sick in the process :/. We would never know.

Yetos
23-04-15, 22:29
only few areas in Europe today are traditional,
after 1863 most of Europe's wine production is not authentic-traditional,

Reason phylloxera Filoxera Φυλλοξηρα Dactylosphaera vitifoliae,
only few areas are still hiden from that disease
its a pitty but it is a true

Angela
24-04-15, 04:28
only few areas in Europe today are traditional,
after 1863 most of Europe's wine production is not authentic-traditional,

Reason phylloxera Filoxera Φυλλοξηρα Dactylosphaera vitifoliae,
only few areas are still hiden from that disease
its a pitty but it is a true

Yes, but it in a lot of cases didn't the new cuttings come from vines in California which in turn came from Europe originally? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

Maleth
24-04-15, 07:42
only few areas in Europe today are traditional,
after 1863 most of Europe's wine production is not authentic-traditional,

Reason phylloxera Filoxera Φυλλοξηρα Dactylosphaera vitifoliae,
only few areas are still hiden from that disease
its a pitty but it is a true

I wasn't aware about this. Not much into the history of wine making (which is interesting) I just drink it :). Here is a good write up. It says that some areas in Greece, France,Italy and Spain did avoid the plague, however it dose not delve into what varieties are more commonly used these days. It can be very possible what Angela is saying as it was already known for vines to be imported into the Americas during that period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera

Angela
24-04-15, 14:54
I wasn't aware about this. Not much into the history of wine making (which is interesting) I just drink it :). Here is a good write up. It says that some areas in Greece, France,Italy and Spain did avoid the plague, however it dose not delve into what varieties are more commonly used these days. It can be very possible what Angela is saying as it was already known for vines to be imported into the Americas during that period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera

Thanks Maleth. Apparently, American vines were resistant, and so European grape varieties were grafted onto American rootstock.

"Use of a resistant, or tolerant, rootstock, developed by Charles Valentine Riley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Valentine_Riley) in collaboration with J. E. Planchon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_%C3%89mile_Planchon) and promoted by T. V. Munson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Volney_Munson), involved grafting a Vitis vinifera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_vinifera) scion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafting) onto the roots of a resistant Vitis aestivalis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_aestivalis) or other American native species. This is the preferred method today, because the rootstock does not interfere with the development of the wine grapes (more technically, the genes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genes) responsible for the grapes are not in the rootstock but in the scion), and it furthermore allows the customization of the rootstock to soil and weather conditions, as well as desired vigor."

"The use of resistant American rootstock to guard against phylloxera also brought about a debate that remains unsettled to this day: whether self-rooted vines produce better wine than those that are grafted. Of course, the argument is essentially irrelevant wherever phylloxera exists. Had American rootstock not been available and used, there would be no V. vinifera wine industry in Europe or most places other than Chile, Washington State, and most of Australia.

One can still drink some of these pre-epidemic wines:

Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypriot_wine) was spared by the phylloxera plague, and thus its wine stock has not been grafted for phylloxera resistant purposes."

"The only European grapes that are natively resistant to phylloxera are the Assyrtiko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrtiko) grape which grows on the volcanic island of Santorini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini_%28wine%29), Greece, although it is not clear whether the resistance is due to the rootstock itself or the volcanic ash on which it grows; and the Juan Garcia grape variety, autochthonous to the medieval village of Fermoselle in Spain... where the microclimatic conditions don't allow the phylloxera to grow."

"To escape the threat of phylloxera, wines have been produced since 1979 on the sandy beaches of Provence’s Bouches-du-Rhône, which extends from the Gard Coast to the waterfront village of Saintes Maries de la Mer. The sand, sun and wind in this area has been a major deterrent to phylloxera. The wine produced here is called "Vins des Sables" or "wines of the sands".[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-4)"

"According to wine critic and author Kerin O'Keefe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerin_O%27Keefe), thanks to tiny parcels of vineyards throughout Europe which were inexplicably unscathed, it is still possible to get a taste of wines as they were before the phylloxera devastation.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)

For no obvious reason, three tiny parcels of ungrafted Pinot noir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinot_noir) escaped phylloxera, making it possible to produce one of the rarest and most expensive Champagnes available: Bollinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollinger) Vieilles Vignes Françaises.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)


A rare vintage port is made from ungrafted vines grown on a small parcel, called Nacional, in the heart of the Quinta do Noval estate. Again, no plausible reason exists why this plot survived while others succumbed.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)


Another vineyard untouched by the blight is the Lisini estate in Montalcino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montalcino) in Italy: a half-hectare vineyard of Sangiovese, with vines dating back to the mid-1800s, which inexplicably never succumbed to phylloxera. Since 1985 the winery has produced a few precious bottles of Prefillossero (Italian for "before the phylloxera"). The wine has devout followers, including Italian wine critic Luigi Veronelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Veronelli), who inscribed on a bottle of the 1987, on show at the winery, that drinking Prefillossero was like listening to ‘the earth singing to the sky’.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)"

I just love wine critics...I wonder if they wax so poetic about their significant others???:grin:

Some of these cost the earth from a quick check, so I don't know how many I'll be able to try. I've had Montalcino, in Tuscany, and I can't imagine the pre phylloxera version being more wonderful, but I'll take it on faith. :smile:

Maleth, wine courses are all the range around here. I took one and it was great fun, not least because of all the tastings. Normally you'd never get to try some of these wines, and you get to figure out at least what varieties and blends you prefer.

Maleth
24-04-15, 15:27
Thanks Maleth. Apparently, American vines were resistant, and so European grape varieties were grafted onto American rootstock.

"Use of a resistant, or tolerant, rootstock, developed by Charles Valentine Riley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Valentine_Riley) in collaboration with J. E. Planchon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_%C3%89mile_Planchon) and promoted by T. V. Munson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Volney_Munson), involved grafting a Vitis vinifera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_vinifera) scion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafting) onto the roots of a resistant Vitis aestivalis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_aestivalis) or other American native species. This is the preferred method today, because the rootstock does not interfere with the development of the wine grapes (more technically, the genes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genes) responsible for the grapes are not in the rootstock but in the scion), and it furthermore allows the customization of the rootstock to soil and weather conditions, as well as desired vigor."

"The use of resistant American rootstock to guard against phylloxera also brought about a debate that remains unsettled to this day: whether self-rooted vines produce better wine than those that are grafted. Of course, the argument is essentially irrelevant wherever phylloxera exists. Had American rootstock not been available and used, there would be no V. vinifera wine industry in Europe or most places other than Chile, Washington State, and most of Australia.

One can still drink some of these pre-epidemic wines:

Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypriot_wine) was spared by the phylloxera plague, and thus its wine stock has not been grafted for phylloxera resistant purposes."

"The only European grapes that are natively resistant to phylloxera are the Assyrtiko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrtiko) grape which grows on the volcanic island of Santorini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini_%28wine%29), Greece, although it is not clear whether the resistance is due to the rootstock itself or the volcanic ash on which it grows; and the Juan Garcia grape variety, autochthonous to the medieval village of Fermoselle in Spain... where the microclimatic conditions don't allow the phylloxera to grow."

"To escape the threat of phylloxera, wines have been produced since 1979 on the sandy beaches of Provence’s Bouches-du-Rhône, which extends from the Gard Coast to the waterfront village of Saintes Maries de la Mer. The sand, sun and wind in this area has been a major deterrent to phylloxera. The wine produced here is called "Vins des Sables" or "wines of the sands".[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-4)"

"According to wine critic and author Kerin O'Keefe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerin_O%27Keefe), thanks to tiny parcels of vineyards throughout Europe which were inexplicably unscathed, it is still possible to get a taste of wines as they were before the phylloxera devastation.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)

For no obvious reason, three tiny parcels of ungrafted Pinot noir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinot_noir) escaped phylloxera, making it possible to produce one of the rarest and most expensive Champagnes available: Bollinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollinger) Vieilles Vignes Françaises.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)


A rare vintage port is made from ungrafted vines grown on a small parcel, called Nacional, in the heart of the Quinta do Noval estate. Again, no plausible reason exists why this plot survived while others succumbed.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)


Another vineyard untouched by the blight is the Lisini estate in Montalcino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montalcino) in Italy: a half-hectare vineyard of Sangiovese, with vines dating back to the mid-1800s, which inexplicably never succumbed to phylloxera. Since 1985 the winery has produced a few precious bottles of Prefillossero (Italian for "before the phylloxera"). The wine has devout followers, including Italian wine critic Luigi Veronelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Veronelli), who inscribed on a bottle of the 1987, on show at the winery, that drinking Prefillossero was like listening to ‘the earth singing to the sky’.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylloxera#cite_note-decanter-6)"

I just love wine critics...I wonder if they wax so poetic about their significant others???:grin:

Some of these cost the earth from a quick check, so I don't know how many I'll be able to try. I've had Montalcino, in Tuscany, and I can't imagine the pre phylloxera version being more wonderful, but I'll take it on faith. :smile:

Maleth, wine courses are all the range around here. I took one and it was great fun, not least because of all the tastings. Normally you'd never get to try some of these wines, and you get to figure out at least what varieties and blends you prefer.

That is very interesting thanks. Learn something new every day :). I had organised a couple myself (through a company) for some employees in a previous job but never attended myself :/. Its a very interesting subject...so maybe the next time :)

Kardu
27-04-15, 20:02
Video report from the archeological site National Geographic mentions about the wine cultivation in Georgia.Sorry, it's in Georgian though

https://youtu.be/jm0z42k1Wio

epoch
27-04-15, 21:08
only few areas in Europe today are traditional,
after 1863 most of Europe's wine production is not authentic-traditional,

Reason phylloxera Filoxera Φυλλοξηρα Dactylosphaera vitifoliae,
only few areas are still hiden from that disease
its a pitty but it is a true

Weren't traditional varieties grafted on American rootstock? That was a solution, IIRC. I do cite from memory I have to say: Correct me if I'm wrong

EDIT: Ah. Obviously Angela beat me to it, and far more elaborate as well. Go read her response.