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Unlockin
01-02-15, 19:02
Hello everyone, I'm struggling to find ancestry compositions of northern italians. Can you help me ?

Thank you very much and have a nice day :)

Sile
02-02-15, 18:49
Hello everyone, I'm struggling to find ancestry compositions of northern italians. Can you help me ?

Thank you very much and have a nice day :)

Hi

what do you actually need?

If you are in 23andme then your italian % should not pass 40% of italian ( and your ancestors are northern italian )

If you mean other programs, then the term Bergamo is used for north Italian, but its epicentre is only about 20km from the swiss and austrian borders, so it takes in swiss and tyrolese people and most likely others

Unlockin
02-02-15, 19:01
Well, first of all, thank you for your answers. I'm looking for complete ancestry compositions of northern italians to infirm or confirm an hypothesis I'm making on my own results :)

Sile
02-02-15, 19:30
Well, first of all, thank you for your answers. I'm looking for complete ancestry compositions of northern italians to infirm or confirm an hypothesis I'm making on my own results :)

What are your results?

I have documented ( birth and marriage certificates ) north-italian ancestry for at least the last 300 years ( it might be more )

Unlockin
02-02-15, 19:52
What are your results?

I have documented ( birth and marriage certificates ) north-italian ancestry for at least the last 300 years ( it might be more )

Well I'm not north italian and all my know ancestors are swiss but here are my results if you really want them (I already posted them in another thread) :

Conservative :

1.3% French & German

0.6% British and Irish

25.3% Broadly Northern European

0.8% Broadly Southern European

69.3% Broadly European

2.7% Unassigned



Standard :

9.9% French and German

2.6% British & Irish

40.7& Broadly Northern European

1.6% Italian

0.1% Balkan

5.1% Broadly Southern European

39.3% Broadly European

0.1% North African

<0.1% Broadly North African & Middle Eastern



Speculative :

40.9% French & German

13.7% British & Irish

21.4% Broadly Northern European

6.4% Italian

2.9% Iberian

0.6% Balkan

6.4% Broadly Southern European

0.5% Eastern European

7.0% Broadly European

0.2% North African

0.1% Unassigned

Would you mind sharing your 23andme results ? The reason I'm doing this is that I hit a brick wall in my genealogy and there's a family story about northern italian ancestry. So I'd like to see northern italians results to compare them with mine.

Thank you very much :)

Sile
02-02-15, 20:01
Well I'm not north italian and all my know ancestors are swiss but here are my results if you really want them (I already posted them in another thread) :

Conservative :

1.3% French & German

0.6% British and Irish

25.3% Broadly Northern European

0.8% Broadly Southern European

69.3% Broadly European

2.7% Unassigned



Standard :

9.9% French and German

2.6% British & Irish

40.7& Broadly Northern European

1.6% Italian

0.1% Balkan

5.1% Broadly Southern European

39.3% Broadly European

0.1% North African

<0.1% Broadly North African & Middle Eastern



Speculative :

40.9% French & German

13.7% British & Irish

21.4% Broadly Northern European

6.4% Italian

2.9% Iberian

0.6% Balkan

6.4% Broadly Southern European

0.5% Eastern European

7.0% Broadly European

0.2% North African

0.1% Unassigned

Would you mind sharing your 23andme results ? The reason I'm doing this is that I hit a brick wall in my genealogy and there's a family story about northern italian ancestry. So I'd like to see northern italians results to compare them with mine.

Thank you very much :)

here is the 21 dec 2014 ( latest )

Ancestry Composition tells you what percent of your DNA comes from each of 31 populations worldwide. This analysis includes DNA you received from all of your recent ancestors, on both sides of your family. The results reflect where your ancestors lived before the widespread migrations of the past few hundred years.
99.4% European

Southern European
30.6% Italian
5.7% Iberian
4.8% Balkan
16.7% Broadly Southern European

Northern European
9.6% French & German
6.2% British & Irish
18.0% Broadly Northern European

0.3% Ashkenazi
0.2% Eastern European
7.2% Broadly European

0.5% Middle Eastern & North African
0.4% North African
< 0.1%Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
0.1% Unassigned


these numbers changed after my son did a split view with me. My italian went from 27% to above and my french/german went from 20% to above

............................

my son's split view ( note: mother of son is also north-italian )

From Mother
49.8% European

Southern European
12.3% Italian
3.1% Iberian
8.5% Broadly Southern European

Northern European
8.0% French & German
13.2% Broadly Northern European

4.7% Broadly European

0.1% East Asian & Native American
East Asian 0.1%
Mongolian 0.1%

Native American< 0.1%

Unassigned 50.0%
.................
From Father

49.6% European

Southern European
14.4% Italian
2.7% Iberian
9.5% Broadly Southern European

Northern European
6.1% French & German
10.5% Broadly Northern European

0.1% Ashkenazi
6.3% Broadly European

0.3% Middle Eastern & North African
0.3% North African
0.1% Sub-Saharan African

< 0.1% East African
< 0.1% Broadly Sub-Saharan African


In regards to certificates for last 300 years on my side, there is one clear non-italian ( from what i can assume ) a gggmother who was a Collen from Netherlands or Bohemia............I still cannot track this line.
with my wife, there is a galician/portuguese ggggmother involved

Unlockin
02-02-15, 20:15
here is the 21 dec 2014 ( latest )

Ancestry Composition tells you what percent of your DNA comes from each of 31 populations worldwide. This analysis includes DNA you received from all of your recent ancestors, on both sides of your family. The results reflect where your ancestors lived before the widespread migrations of the past few hundred years.
99.4% European

Southern European
30.6% Italian
5.7% Iberian
4.8% Balkan
16.7% Broadly Southern European

Northern European
9.6% French & German
6.2% British & Irish
18.0% Broadly Northern European

0.3% Ashkenazi
0.2% Eastern European
7.2% Broadly European

0.5% Middle Eastern & North African
0.4% North African
< 0.1%Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
0.1% Unassigned


these numbers changed after my son did a split view with me. My italian went from 27% to above and my french/german went from 20% to above

............................

my son's split view ( not mother of son is also north-italian )

From Mother
49.8% European

Southern European
12.3% Italian
3.1% Iberian
8.5% Broadly Southern European

Northern European
8.0% French & German
13.2% Broadly Northern European

4.7% Broadly European

0.1% East Asian & Native American
East Asian 0.1%
Mongolian 0.1%

Native American< 0.1%

Unassigned 50.0%
.................
From Father

49.6% European

Southern European
14.4% Italian
2.7% Iberian
9.5% Broadly Southern European

Northern European
6.1% French & German
10.5% Broadly Northern European

0.1% Ashkenazi
6.3% Broadly European

0.3% Middle Eastern & North African
0.3% North African
0.1% Sub-Saharan African

< 0.1% East African
< 0.1% Broadly Sub-Saharan African

Thank you very much for taking the time to post your results it's really interesting ! :)

monicat1
12-05-18, 18:32
Let's first establish there is North Italy and there is THE EXTREME NORTH. All the alpines regions of Italy are the extreme North. This was actually SWITZERLAND prior to being Italy. After that it was also AUSTRIA territory but only for a short time. So the extreme North Italy is going to show as FRENCH GERMAN, or even possibly just German or commonly as BROADLY EUROPEAN.

Regular North Italy like Bologna I am not sure. I would need to know the Province where your people are from. A good idea is to check that with the territory that was Switzerland. Also check the vicinity of French Alps.

I haven't done my test yet, but my cousin whose mom is Northern Italian (both mom's parents are Northern Italian for generations). And my cousins father is Polish. Her results:
French
German
East European

The East European is the father (Polish), they can be traced to many generations and Polish does come up as East European.
The FRENCH is for sure NORTHERN ITALY as the dialect this extreme north area her mom is from is ItalGalo (ancient French/Italian).
and the German is possibly from her North Italy since Swiss DNA seems to show up as German, or French/German or simply BROADLY EUROPEAN.

One thing you can know for sure: that area is pretty much Roman Empire.

I'm sorry I don't have the percentages, however, she said these were the only 3. Now, this is a Northern Italian province of SONDRIO which is in Lombardia, but at the extreme North, meaning it is 45 min from Swiss border and 1.5 hours from French border. And did you know this whole area used to be SWITZERLAND? It has only been considered part of Italy for 200 years. And even though this area was under Austrian rule at one time, it was comparatively short compared to how long it was part of Switzerland. However since it is also close to France could be why so much French showed up. I have read that Northern Italian does come up French on DNA tests. And that Swiss comes up German and French. So does the Austrian.

In any case the extreme North will probably NOT show Southern European nor Italian. Citizenshipwhise Italian but blood wise is Swiss.

However, you didn't tell us what province your people in Italia are from and THAT is key.

I'll report back when I do mine. We are Northern Italian and I live here and my father and my father's fathers were all born here, however, it was Austria in 1700s and Switzerland all the time prior. My father has black hair and dark skin, not olive but darker. But has shocking blue eyes. This is typical for many parts in Italia. However, it may be that FRENCH and French/German shows due to this area being SWITZERLAND.

Hope this helps. I'll post back after my results are in, in about 2 months.

monicat1
12-05-18, 18:47
Exactly, BERGAMO is a perfect example. I would assume Bergamo would show up as GERMAN, even their way of speaking Italian sounds to me always like a little German-esque and they are close to the extreme north and could be considered extreme north by some. Also Bergamo could show up as French also. France is close. I know the extreme norther (alpine regions of Valtellina) was SWITZERLAND, not sure if Bergamo was, but even if it wasn't I would think it would come up German, French, and or Broadly European. The extreme north is NOT MEDITERRANEAN so I doubt any of that Northern Italian would come up as "Italian" or "Southern European." They are still Italian though. Just as an American whose family is in US for 4 hundred years could come up "Irish" or "English," they're still American by citizenship. And who is to say when a nationality becomes an ethnicity? How many generations does it take for an ethnicity to become an ethnicity?

monicat1
12-05-18, 18:58
Depends on which part of the "North" we're talking about. The extreme North is definitely SWISS since this area has always been SWITZERLAND (except the short time it was under Austrian rule). I live here in the extreme North, approximately 1 hour from St. Moritz, and about 1.5 hrs from France border. We've only been officially part of Italy for a little over 200 years. I just think of us as ALPINE peoples and I include all the alps. We are the mountain peoples. Unfortunately there is no DNA nor citizenship for that. But if you're Swiss and you are looking for your Italian connection, if it is NORTH then probably would show as French, German, French/German, or BROADLY EUROPEAN.

Personally I don't consider any of the alpine peoples "Italian," IMO very different even from the northern italian peoples of Bologna. People may argue this but I've been all over the alps and we're just simply Mountain people! No DNA for that!

Salento
12-05-18, 19:53
If you don’t want to be called Italian, than we won’t.
You won’t be missed.
Pick your Mountain.
40% of Italy is Mountainous.
From North to South.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Italy

Angela
12-05-18, 19:55
Just ignore posts 8,9 and 10. Imo, this person doesn't have a clue about how AC works, how 23andme works, how Admixture programs work, or Italian genetics in general.

Just what we needed: another Lega Nord type member. Unless, of course, "she's" a sock of well known members.

Sile
12-05-18, 20:39
Exactly, BERGAMO is a perfect example. I would assume Bergamo would show up as GERMAN, even their way of speaking Italian sounds to me always like a little German-esque and they are close to the extreme north and could be considered extreme north by some. Also Bergamo could show up as French also. France is close. I know the extreme norther (alpine regions of Valtellina) was SWITZERLAND, not sure if Bergamo was, but even if it wasn't I would think it would come up German, French, and or Broadly European. The extreme north is NOT MEDITERRANEAN so I doubt any of that Northern Italian would come up as "Italian" or "Southern European." They are still Italian though. Just as an American whose family is in US for 4 hundred years could come up "Irish" or "English," they're still American by citizenship. And who is to say when a nationality becomes an ethnicity? How many generations does it take for an ethnicity to become an ethnicity?
Why do you think it would be German........the first "germans" from the medieval times would be the Austrians from 1820 ( are Austrians classified germans or is it because their language is bavarian....I do not count Austrians as German )......It was under rimini and the house of malatesta ( italian ), it was under the duchy of milan for about 30 years after this , then under Venice from 1430 to 1797 , then under France 1798 to 1815.............then italian for last 150 years
.
Been to Bergamo, I like how the old is separated from the new..........it was a very important town under venice, the gateway to the grisons of switzerland and their manpower, especially after the papal states favoured the Spanish to rule Italy

Pax Augusta
13-05-18, 00:47
Just ignore posts 8,9 and 10. Imo, this person doesn't have a clue about how AC works, how 23andme works, how Admixture programs work, or Italian genetics in general.

Just what we needed: another Lega Nord type member. Unless, of course, "she's" a sock of well known members.

Obvious sock.

Tony13
03-10-18, 22:56
Hi

what do you actually need?

If you are in 23andme then your italian % should not pass 40% of italian ( and your ancestors are northern italian )

If you mean other programs, then the term Bergamo is used for north Italian, but its epicentre is only about 20km from the swiss and austrian borders, so it takes in swiss and tyrolese people and most likely others

My mother was born in Bassano del Grappa, Veneto. According to 23andMe, I'm 10.2% French & German, 7.2% Italian, 0.8% Iberian, 17.2% Broadly NW European; 7% Broadly SW European; and 4.2% Broadly European.

I'm new to the forum so any help would be much appreciated.

Sile
06-10-18, 00:17
My mother was born in Bassano del Grappa, Veneto. According to 23andMe, I'm 10.2% French & German, 7.2% Italian, 0.8% Iberian, 17.2% Broadly NW European; 7% Broadly SW European; and 4.2% Broadly European.
I'm new to the forum so any help would be much appreciated.
what is your mothers surname as my mother lived less than 8 km from Bassano in San Zenone and might know her family....she went to bassano every weekend
..
very low italian.
.
my mother's below
.
Italian 18.2%
French & German 11.8%
Balkan 2.8%
Iberian 0.0%
British & Irish 1.8%
Sardinian 0.6%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%
Eastern European 0.2%
Broadly Northwestern European 4.8%
Broadly Southern European 7.6%
Broadly European 2.9%

Tony13
06-10-18, 05:35
what is your mothers surname as my mother lived less than 8 km from Bassano in San Zenone and might know her family....she went to bassano every weekend
..
very low italian.
.
my mother's below
.
Italian 18.2%
French & German 11.8%
Balkan 2.8%
Iberian 0.0%
British & Irish 1.8%
Sardinian 0.6%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%
Eastern European 0.2%
Broadly Northwestern European 4.8%
Broadly Southern European 7.6%
Broadly European 2.9%

My mother's surname was Pozza. I'm going to visit for a few weeks in March.

Oddly, I received different results when I uploaded my raw data to dna.land, GEDmatch, and MyHeritage.

Dna.land:

South/Central European [42%]


Includes: Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 1 other site) Italy
Does not include: Albanian in Albania; Basque/French in France; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/WestSicilian and Sardinian in (Sardinia and 2 other sites) Italy and Lithuanian in Lithuania
Details


Northwest European [57%]


Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands
Does not include: Saharawi in (Morocco) Western Sahara; Piapoco in Colombia; Estonian in Estonia; Basque/French and French in (South and 1 other site) France; Basque/Spanish and Iberian Population in Spain; Finnish in Finland and Gambian in Western Gambia

Ambiguous West Eurasian [1.1%]


West Eurasian is a very general category containing Arab/Egyptian, Ashkenazi/Levantine, Central Asian, Northeast European, South Asian, South European, Northwest European, Southwestern European and Central Indoeuropean

Sile
06-10-18, 08:07
My mother's surname was Pozza. I'm going to visit for a few weeks in March.
Oddly, I received different results when I uploaded my raw data to dna.land, GEDmatch, and MyHeritage.
Dna.land:

South/Central European [33%]
Includes: Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 1 other site) Italy
Does not include: Albanian in Albania; Basque/French in France; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/WestSicilian and Sardinian in (Sardinia and 2 other sites) Italy and Lithuanian in Lithuania
Northwest European [67%]
Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands
Does not include: Saharawi in (Morocco) Western Sahara; Piapoco in Colombia; Estonian in Estonia; Basque/French and French in (South and 1 other site) France; Basque/Spanish and Iberian Population in Spain; Finnish in Finland and Gambian in Western Gambia
thanks , she truly is a Veneta from Vicenza province
https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/POZZA/VENETO
.
top 3 towns where most Pozza households are
La distribuzione geografica del cognome Pozza nella Provincia di Vicenza
76 Lusiana
46 Vicenza
41 Valdagno

Tony13
06-10-18, 08:59
thanks , she truly is a Veneta from Vicenza province

.
top 3 towns where most Pozza households are
La distribuzione geografica del cognome Pozza nella Provincia di Vicenza
76 Lusiana
46 Vicenza
41 Valdagno

That's a great site.

I was also able to find other surnames from my mother's family: Zanetello, Manzardo & Bozzetto