The Celts were G2a2b2a1b L497 ( Hallstatt Y-DNA from Mitterkirchen, Upper Austria 700

Robert6

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The Celts were G2a2b2a1b L497 ( Hallstatt Y-DNA from Mitterkirchen, Upper Austria 700BC)
10 marker matches from the region close to the Celtic ancient dna
2NWM5 Warren Zweisimmen, Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ABZX5 Beery Oberdiessbach, Switzerland G (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
NHMCH Willi Switzerland G2a3b1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
Z8UD6 Häfeli Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ZZQU9 Boyer Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0

Tabelle 2: Y-chromosomales DNA-Profile HÜ-I / 8
Tabelle 1: DNA-Profile HÜ-X / 1 und HÜ-I / 8
Objekt
06
Merkmal. DYS391 DYS389I DYS439 DYS389II DYS438 DYS437
HÜ-I / 8 10 12 11 29 10 16
Merkmal. DYS19 DYS392 DYS393 DYS390 DYS385
HÜ-I / 8 15 11 14 22 14 14

Ancient DNA from here
http://sonius.at/pdf/Sonius_07_WEB.pdf
 
The Celts were G2a2b2a1b L497 ( Hallstatt Y-DNA from Mitterkirchen, Upper Austria 700BC)
10 marker matches from the region close to the Celtic ancient dna
2NWM5 Warren Zweisimmen, Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ABZX5 Beery Oberdiessbach, Switzerland G (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
NHMCH Willi Switzerland G2a3b1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
Z8UD6 Häfeli Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ZZQU9 Boyer Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0

Tabelle 2: Y-chromosomales DNA-Profile HÜ-I / 8
Tabelle 1: DNA-Profile HÜ-X / 1 und HÜ-I / 8
Objekt
06
Merkmal. DYS391 DYS389I DYS439 DYS389II DYS438 DYS437
HÜ-I / 8 10 12 11 29 10 16
Merkmal. DYS19 DYS392 DYS393 DYS390 DYS385
HÜ-I / 8 15 11 14 22 14 14

Ancient DNA from here
http://sonius.at/pdf/Sonius_07_WEB.pdf

Could you elaborate Robert? Are you saying that ancient dna has been typed at a Hallstatt site, or that these are the results of modern people from that area, or both?
 
Well, "The Celts" almost certainly belonged to a variety of Y-dna haplogroups, like any other large ethnic family. Maybe G2a2b2a1b L497 was among them, but, your blanket statement dosen't really make any sense.
 
Could you elaborate Robert? Are you saying that ancient dna has been typed at a Hallstatt site, or that these are the results of modern people from that area, or both?
These are STR markers of ancient DNA of a man from Proto-Celtic culture
Hallstatt site Austria 2700 BP

Tabelle 2: Y-chromosomales DNA-Profile HÜ-I / 8
Tabelle 1: DNA-Profile HÜ-X / 1 und HÜ-I / 8
Objekt
06
Merkmal. DYS391 DYS389I DYS439 DYS389II DYS438 DYS437
HÜ-I / 8 10 12 11 29 10 16
Merkmal. DYS19 DYS392 DYS393 DYS390 DYS385
HÜ-I / 8 15 11 14 22 14 14

The STR markers are in page 6
http://sonius.at/pdf/Sonius_07_WEB.pdf
 
Last edited:
These are STR markers of ancient DNA of a man from Proto-Celtic culture
Hallstatt site Austria 2700 BC

Tabelle 2: Y-chromosomales DNA-Profile HÜ-I / 8
Tabelle 1: DNA-Profile HÜ-X / 1 und HÜ-I / 8
Objekt
06
Merkmal. DYS391 DYS389I DYS439 DYS389II DYS438 DYS437
HÜ-I / 8 10 12 11 29 10 16
Merkmal. DYS19 DYS392 DYS393 DYS390 DYS385
HÜ-I / 8 15 11 14 22 14 14

The STR markers are in page 6
http://sonius.at/pdf/Sonius_07_WEB.pdf

and where can we find the link between these STR and L497 ?
 
and where can we find the link between these STR and L497 ?
In Ysearch it is the biggest haplotype base
http://www.ysearch.org/search_search.asp?uid=&freeentry=true


10 marker matches of ancient DNA from the region close to the Proto-Celtic sites, all of them are G and they all of them have dys388=13 (which is L497 subclade)
2NWM5 Warren Zweisimmen, Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ABZX5 Beery Oberdiessbach, Switzerland G (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
NHMCH Willi Switzerland G2a3b1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
Z8UD6 Häfeli Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ZZQU9 Boyer Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
 
The presence of this sub-clade among them obviously doesn't mean others were not, as was pointed out above, but it is interesting. In Boattini et al they showed five separate sets of G2a in Italy, with one arriving very late, and predominantly found in the north.
 
These are STR markers of ancient DNA of a man from Proto-Celtic culture
Hallstatt site Austria 2700 BC

Tabelle 2: Y-chromosomales DNA-Profile HÜ-I / 8
Tabelle 1: DNA-Profile HÜ-X / 1 und HÜ-I / 8
Objekt
06
Merkmal. DYS391 DYS389I DYS439 DYS389II DYS438 DYS437
HÜ-I / 8 10 12 11 29 10 16
Merkmal. DYS19 DYS392 DYS393 DYS390 DYS385
HÜ-I / 8 15 11 14 22 14 14

The STR markers are in page 6
http://sonius.at/pdf/Sonius_07_WEB.pdf

he is clearly not a celt, they did not reach the alps until the early iron-age

more likely a proto-illyrian or proto-raetic person
 
he is clearly not a celt, they did not reach the alps until the early iron-age

more likely a proto-illyrian or proto-raetic person
It is in Mitterkirchen close to the River
250 meters above the Sea level, not in Alps
and is from 700 BC
he is proto-Celtic
 
In Ysearch it is the biggest haplotype base
http://www.ysearch.org/search_search.asp?uid=&freeentry=true


10 marker matches of ancient DNA from the region close to the Proto-Celtic sites, all of them are G and they all of them have dys388=13 (which is L497 subclade)
2NWM5 Warren Zweisimmen, Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ABZX5 Beery Oberdiessbach, Switzerland G (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
NHMCH Willi Switzerland G2a3b1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
Z8UD6 Häfeli Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
ZZQU9 Boyer Switzerland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0

this one is also in the list :

H7WYZ Reich Baden-W¨rtemberg Germany , as close as Switzerland

He is G1* but also dys 388 = 13
 
G2a-L497 falls under what I usually call G2a3b1, the Indo-European branch of G2a. Hence it is not surprising that Hallstatt Celts possessed this lineage, especially considering that the Alps are a hotspot for G2a3b1 today. The Bronze Age Proto-Celts relied heavily on copper and tin mining to sustain their economy, military and prestige goods for their nobility. This partially explains why the Hallstatt culture came into being and flourished in a metal-rich region like the Alps.

That being said, it is surprising that this article was published in 2010 and no one has ever mentioned these ancient Y-DNA samples before !
 
this one is also in the list :

H7WYZ Reich Baden-W¨rtemberg Germany , as close as Switzerland

He is G1* but also dys 388 = 13
H7WYZ Reich Baden is L497 G2a2b2a1b
In Ftdna the G2 now is G1

Reich Baden have
DYS425=14 this mean that he is G2a2b
DYS425=14 and dys388 = 13 mean that he is L497 G2a2b2a1b
 
But, in 2700 BCE? That's almost 2000 years before Hallstatt, and only a few hundred years after Otzi. Indo-European, maybe, but Celtic? Don't think so.
 
Just saw that the "2" was a typo. Pardon me. Interesting data there. G would still have certainly been a minority lineage among Celts, though.
 
But, in 2700 BCE? That's almost 2000 years before Hallstatt, and only a few hundred years after Otzi. Indo-European, maybe, but Celtic? Don't think so.
I' am sorry my mistake it is 2700BP, 700BC, and not 2700BC.
 
It is generally thought that the proto-Celts were the highest bearers of R1b. Along with the proto-Italics.


Celts could not be G2a Y-DNA dominant; this is very unlikely as G2a is not an Indo-European Y chromosome. If Celts had G2a; they likely assimilated non-Indo-European men into their Celtic tribe.
 
It is generally thought that the proto-Celts were the highest bearers of R1b. Along with the proto-Italics.


Celts could not be G2a Y-DNA dominant; this is very unlikely as G2a is not an Indo-European Y chromosome. If Celts had G2a; they likely assimilated non-Indo-European men into their Celtic tribe.
If we take the Anatolian theory then the G2a is Indo-European
While the Dene-Caucasian(Basque Etrouscan + Picts in Britain) from Siberia could be the language of R1 people
 
It is generally thought that the proto-Celts were the highest bearers of R1b. Along with the proto-Italics.


Celts could not be G2a Y-DNA dominant; this is very unlikely as G2a is not an Indo-European Y chromosome. If Celts had G2a; they likely assimilated non-Indo-European men into their Celtic tribe.

And this theory of G2a being non Indo European, is based on what?
 
If we take the Anatolian theory then the G2a is Indo-European
While the Dene-Caucasian(Basque Etrouscan + Picts in Britain) from Siberia could be the language of R1 people

Sure, but, who wants to take the Anatolian theory?:LOL:
As Maciamo explained, G2 lineages would have been present amongst Celtic tribes in small numbers by that time, along with other Neolithic lineages. No Renfrew necessary.
 

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