View Full Version : Between the Baltic & Danubian Worlds: The Genetic Affinities of a Middle Neolithic...

09-03-15, 00:28
Between the Baltic and Danubian Worlds: The Genetic Affinities of a Middle Neolithic Population from Central Poland:

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/03/mtdna-from-lengyel-culture-in-poland.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/03/mtdna-from-lengyel-culture-in-poland.html)



For a long time, anthropological and genetic research on the Neolithic revolution in Europe was mainly concentrated on the mechanism of agricultural dispersal over different parts of the continent. Recently, attention has shifted towards population processes that occurred after the arrival of the first farmers, transforming the genetically very distinctive early Neolithic Linear Pottery Culture (LBK) and Mesolithic forager populations into present-day Central Europeans. The latest studies indicate that significant changes in this respect took place within the post-Linear Pottery cultures of the Early and Middle Neolithic which were a bridge between the allochthonous LBK and the first indigenous Neolithic culture of north-central Europe—the Funnel Beaker culture (TRB). The paper presents data on mtDNA haplotypes of a Middle Neolithic population dated to 4700/4600–4100/4000 BC belonging to the Brześć Kujawski Group of the Lengyel culture (BKG) from the Kuyavia region in north-central Poland. BKG communities constituted the border of the “Danubian World” in this part of Europe for approx. seven centuries, neighboring foragers of the North European Plain and the southern Baltic basin. MtDNA haplogroups were determined in 11 individuals, and four mtDNA macrohaplogroups were found (H, U5, T, and HV0). The overall haplogroup pattern did not deviate from other post-Linear Pottery populations from central Europe, although a complete lack of N1a and the presence of U5a are noteworthy. Of greatest importance is the observed link between the BKG and the TRB horizon, confirmed by an independent analysis of the craniometric variation of Mesolithic and Neolithic populations inhabiting central Europe. Estimated phylogenetic pattern suggests significant contribution of the post-Linear BKG communities to the origin of the subsequent Middle Neolithic cultures, such as the TRB.

Here are the mtDNA haplogroups found:





From the "Comments" section:

Something interesting we're seeing in this is that, unlike what happens in Germany, we can well consider these mtDNA pools "modern" (or even "hyper-modern" in some cases), particularly on the frequencies of H. Obviously this underlines the risk of extrapolating to all Europe from data only of Germany or other very specific localities of the North like Sweden (back then much less important than today) but maybe more important is that we are beginning to have a growing number of localities or regions, dated to the Neolithic or early Chalcolithic, that fit well with the modern European genetic pool and are therefore potential candidates for its origins. (...) the "hyper-modernity" of the mtDNA pool stands, assuming that CRS is indeed H (what is likely but not 100% certain). (...) The craniometric cluster analysis looks interesting, too. Especially regarding the Globular Amphora culture in Poland, for which no ancient DNA has been published so far. Going by these results, it was similar to some Walternienburg groups and the TRB.

13-03-15, 20:15
Bump. No comments / opinions ???

13-03-15, 20:45
Bump. No comments / opinions ???

I already discussed this with you in another thread...........indigenous mesolithic people on the map are plain Baltic tribes

13-03-15, 22:31
Baltic languages are Indo-European and perhaps most closely related to PIE, while those Mesolithic people did not speak Indo-European languages.

BTW, the article I quoted is not about DNA of those Mesolithic hunters but those to the south of them - Post-Linear Pottery farmers n Kuyavia region.

18-03-15, 21:32

GENERALITIES: Some traps whenspeaking about past :
the Neolithic nameis over-used without the reader can be sure of the concept itcarries : span of time ? - culture-way of life ?-race ?-
& :Eneolithic is final Neolithic in western Europe (same as Chalcolithicof someones)
time : theneolithic agricultural revolution begin early in Near-Eastern andLevant 8000 / 10000 BC ?- only about the 5000 BC in someparts or Northwestern Europe and maybe in some parts of East Eurasia(or even later) - + during a long enough time, populations ofMesolithic way of life were neighbouring population of Neolithic wayof life, sometimes with interferences, sometimes not (some examplesin the Balkans near the Donau/Danube river and in western Germany orFrance and in Portugal and southern Scandinavia – sure otherinstances could be found) – for someones « neolithic' = raceor ligneages of well determined geographic origin : we haddevined and now we know a lot of the 'Neolithical' people had aboutthe 4000 BC a dosis of 'Mesolithical' Hunters-Gatherers people –it's the case of some LBK places – and they were not homogenous :in Hungary the settlements West and East Danube can be partly opposedone to another (mix but not exactly the same mix, at least concerningmtDNA (TransdanubLBK >< SzakàlhàtALPC : mt-T2 =~>25 %, equivallent in both, but opposed strong mt-H > weakmt-J in this LBK and weak mt-H < strong mt-J in thos ALPC... notthe same story !
& : yet« Farmers » were not homogenous since the region ofdeparture in East Anatolia-Levant, neither for genetics NA) nor formetrics – and the agricultural « « revolution »can have changed partly the metrics features of people, but we haveto keap in mind they were themselves issued from southeastern localHunters-Gatherers... -
I cannot do with theterm « Neolithic » when I speak of BBs or Corded(3000-2000 BC) or other people who already knew the metals even ifthey were not rich for it and if BBs had more knowledge than Corded –and these people were not typical sedentary « peasants »for the most -
in Spain, Helladiccolonization is sure in East Andalusia about 2400 BC and maybe othermediterranean places, they were no more typical « neolithicalpeople » either – and BBs in Portugal found previous peoplewho were aware of the metals reality for a long time – so theNeolithic-Metals transition is not more clear than theForaging-Agriculture transition (Wiki said copper was known in Serbiaalready about the 5000 BC!) -
Concerningpigmentation and the attached mutations and their supposed dates ofspreading, the term 'Neolithic' is of poor value : a span oftime and a place, if possible, would be more accurate because wedon't know too well among which population it occurred (too littlesamples for the large territory covered) ; the apparition of themutation among some % of a population doesn't tell us where itcome from (crossings at the mergins with a currently unknownpopulation, by instance ?) – I suppose by example ONEof the mutations or THE principal mutation responsible for light hairarised at high levels in a population living in the Steppes, but notjust above the Black Sea : not in an eyeblink as supposedby some scientists and maybe in a state of HGs population turning toFarmers (the mutation can of course be born among Near-Easterndescendants but not the strong propagation) – just a thoughtwithout any certitude - sorry for the disgression which could have been post in avery thread or almost

to answer more precisely to this beginning thread, I find interesting this heavy presence of mt-H there (H5 for the most) on one side and some links metrically with TRB (a mix where eastern and Atlanto-Mediterranean N-western people played a role - for I red mt-H5 is rather a Caucasus or even South-Caucasus haplo concerning origin but we don't know who it comes with (Farmers or later, I-Eans?) - the mt-H1 could be "autochtonous" or send by Long Barrows via TRB? - mt-T2 seems to me "farmer" but?...
another "man" found in Poland at the transition Neolithic-Metals there had some links physically with Long Barrows AND maybe some specific ancient Near-Easterners (dolicho low enough vaulted crania,small short face but with some breadth and robustness in jaw, maybe an element among future Celtic, Slavic and Scythian elite, # from Corded, # from Danubian type, "# from Nordic: intriguing - I need more details about others mt-H and the surveys about metrics of them and TRB -have you links?
If not I-Ean, I think Lengyel and Baden were already under influence of people come there from East -