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View Full Version : Haplogroup F bottleneck could have happened in SE Asia



Sile
17-03-15, 08:19
Karmin et al. paints a similar scenario to the one described above.

"we observe an early split in our haplogroup F data that separates haplogroup G from HT-M578. However intersecting our data with Malaysian Chr Y sequence data (Wong et al. 2013) reveals a split in haplogroup F that predates the G/HT split by one mutation, F1329 (Figure S13). This finding is in accordance with the two Lahu F2-M427 individuals reported in Poznik et al. (2013) as having an ancestral allele of M578. In combination with the presence of deep branches of K in Southeast Asia, this further strengthens the model proposing that the initial radiation of the non-African Chr Y lineages may have taken place somewhere in Southeast Asia ... Only 24 mutational events distinguish the progression of two major non-African founder haplogroups F to K (Figure S13). Similarly small number of differences separate haplogroups LT, NO, S and P from their MRCA in haplogroup K (Figure S28), consistent with the suggestion of Karafet et al. 2014 (Karafet et al. 2014) that the initial diversification of Eurasian and Oceanian founder haplogroups was a rapid process limited to a few thousand years overall. We estimate that a peak of the coalescent events of the oldest non-African haplogroups falls into a time window of 47-52 kya"
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/supp...ental_Text.pdf (http://genome.cshlp.org/content/suppl/2015/02/18/gr.186684.114.DC1/Supplemental_Text.pdf)

Expredel
17-03-15, 14:46
The data I've seen so far suggests K was in Africa. I've seen no proof that T was a back migration.

Sile
17-03-15, 19:48
The data I've seen so far suggests K was in Africa. I've seen no proof that T was a back migration.

which K do you speak of, the

K1 = T and L

K2a = X, N and O

K2ba = M and S

K2b = P, Q and R

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragroup

so to you, every marker except G, H , I and J are from Africa?

bicicleur
18-03-15, 18:55
Karmin et al. paints a similar scenario to the one described above.

"we observe an early split in our haplogroup F data that separates haplogroup G from HT-M578. However intersecting our data with Malaysian Chr Y sequence data (Wong et al. 2013) reveals a split in haplogroup F that predates the G/HT split by one mutation, F1329 (Figure S13). This finding is in accordance with the two Lahu F2-M427 individuals reported in Poznik et al. (2013) as having an ancestral allele of M578. In combination with the presence of deep branches of K in Southeast Asia, this further strengthens the model proposing that the initial radiation of the non-African Chr Y lineages may have taken place somewhere in Southeast Asia ... Only 24 mutational events distinguish the progression of two major non-African founder haplogroups F to K (Figure S13). Similarly small number of differences separate haplogroups LT, NO, S and P from their MRCA in haplogroup K (Figure S28), consistent with the suggestion of Karafet et al. 2014 (Karafet et al. 2014) that the initial diversification of Eurasian and Oceanian founder haplogroups was a rapid process limited to a few thousand years overall. We estimate that a peak of the coalescent events of the oldest non-African haplogroups falls into a time window of 47-52 kya"
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/supp...ental_Text.pdf (http://genome.cshlp.org/content/suppl/2015/02/18/gr.186684.114.DC1/Supplemental_Text.pdf)

can you also provide a link to the figures?

Sile
18-03-15, 19:01
can you also provide a link to the figures?

http://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/2015/03/13/gr.186684.114/suppl/DC1

bicicleur
19-03-15, 12:27
the initial radiation of the non-African Chr Y lineages may have taken place somewhere in Southeast Asia
I don't think so.
the Y DNA of the Usht-Ishim Y DNA
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-ust-ishim/ which was pré-X (NO)
and archeological data (IUP in Siberia)
https://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2F Nicolas_Zwyns%2Fpublication%2F263391777_Rethinking _the_initial_Upper_Paleolithic%2Flinks%2F540ea48b0 cf2d8daaacd54b2&ei=K7GEVJn5FsfsUt_9gegP&usg=AFQjCNG3dTY25eDluRiYwODgPIIrgIeOvw&sig2=XL7JcbMWgxlGBfN8VXPC3A&bvm=bv.80642063,d.d24
indicate a migration of X and NO across the Hindu Kush to the Altai mountains and hence a split of N and O toward northern and southern Mongolia

Expredel
19-03-15, 14:50
so to you, every marker except G, H , I and J are from Africa?
G, H, I, J are all from Africa in the model I propose, same for P Q R which would have left slightly later and be pushed farther east to find land to settle, with T being one of the final migrations with part of T staying behind.

Twilight
17-06-15, 23:02
G, H, I, J are all from Africa in the model I propose, same for P Q R which would have left slightly later and be pushed farther east to find land to settle, with T being one of the final migrations with part of T staying behind.

Do you have proff of Native African clans possessing haplotype H, G and Q, if so could you please provide a source. That would be interesting

Haplogroups do tend to leave a rough trail, I like to call this the slime effect

Salmon
29-06-15, 18:33
Every male who does not have an A or B haplogroup Y-chromosome has a "back to Africa" migrant ancestor.

A and B stayed home.

C left.

E came back and conquered a large chunk of Africa.

Eurasian haplogroups came in, left children behind but didn't leave sizable populations outside of North Africa.