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Lacroix
17-03-15, 23:16
Hi,

I am a 24 year old student from the Netherlands and I am very Pro-EU. I came here with the hopes on meeting likeminded people to discuss and share ideas with. And ofcourse find anti-Europeans to argu with.

Also if you are a pro-european too add me as a friend.

Greetings,

Lacroix

LeBrok
18-03-15, 01:39
Welcome to Eupedia Lacroix.

Templar
18-03-15, 12:01
Lacroix what do you think about people who say that the EU removes an individual country's border control, and makes it vulneraleto illegal immigration from outside of the EU. For example, illegal immigrants get into Italy or Greece, and then from there they travel to the Netherlands with little opposition. And with the illegal immigrants comes a drain on welfare, higher crime rates, etc.

Lacroix
18-03-15, 13:29
Lacroix what do you think about people who say that the EU removes an individual country's border control, and makes it vulneraleto illegal immigration from outside of the EU. For example, illegal immigrants get into Italy or Greece, and then from there they travel to the Netherlands with little opposition. And with the illegal immigrants comes a drain on welfare, higher crime rates, etc.

It is true that once illigel immigrants have crossed the European border its easyer for them to get to the Netherlands. The increasing crime rates are in my opinion not caused by the influx of immigrants but the support we give them. I think the EU should provide them with decent places to live for a maximum of two years maybe. In that place they should be educated. Teach them English, maybe one language more, and teach them a profession. Eventually when things calm down in their own country they should be sent back and with the knowledge they gained in Europe they can make their home country a better place.

Ofcourse this is a very optimistic and idealistic view. It would cost a lot of money. But it would also create jobs for European citizens (teaching, managing, building maybe). I also think we cannot think to lightly about illigal immigrants, they had to flee their country after all and we know only half of the horrors that they may have had to face there.

Yetos
18-03-15, 15:02
It is true that once illigel immigrants have crossed the European border its easyer for them to get to the Netherlands. The increasing crime rates are in my opinion not caused by the influx of immigrants but the support we give them. I think the EU should provide them with decent places to live for a maximum of two years maybe. In that place they should be educated. Teach them English, maybe one language more, and teach them a profession. Eventually when things calm down in their own country they should be sent back and with the knowledge they gained in Europe they can make their home country a better place.

Ofcourse this is a very optimistic and idealistic view. It would cost a lot of moneyhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/). But it would also create jobs for European citizens (teaching, managing, building maybe). I also think we cannot think to lightly about illigal immigrants, they had to flee their country after all and we know only half of the horrors that they may have had to face there.

Yes, offcourse,

Lisbon and Maashtrich (however is written)

EU is making Greece Italy Malta and Spain an arrival station but for more than 2 years, and North Europe is takling the educated refugee children,
if an Illegal immigrant is arrested in North Europe, then by the above treaty's is send to South Europe to 'be conformed and educated'

I think some treatys of EU must reconsidered,
or Illegal immigrants should run 'free'http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) inside EU, as citizens,


#unfollowme

Lacroix
18-03-15, 16:27
Yes, educating and taking care of immigrants should be everyone's responsibility. Not only that of Southern Europe.

Another point to make on this subject is that of charity donations. Many people in Europe are against charity or atleast giving money to help build schools and houses in africa. They also want us to pull back any troops in Africa and they dont want to get involved. They also want all illigal immigrants to leave Europe or their countrys. They dont know however that the influx of illigal immigrants is a result of the lacking help to Africa. By educating people in Africa, teaching them how to farm, grow crops, build wells and schools, the country will become more stable. It will result in more food, more jobs and less reason to fight. If we manage to decrease the conflicts there we will also decrease the influx of illigal immigrants.

LeBrok
18-03-15, 18:27
It is true that once illigel immigrants have crossed the European border its easyer for them to get to the Netherlands. The increasing crime rates are in my opinion not caused by the influx of immigrants but the support we give them. I think the EU should provide them with decent places to live for a maximum of two years maybe. In that place they should be educated. Teach them English, maybe one language more, and teach them a profession. Eventually when things calm down in their own country they should be sent back and with the knowledge they gained in Europe they can make their home country a better place.

Ofcourse this is a very optimistic and idealistic view. It would cost a lot of money. But it would also create jobs for European citizens (teaching, managing, building maybe). I also think we cannot think to lightly about illigal immigrants, they had to flee their country after all and we know only half of the horrors that they may have had to face there.

How noble of you. At least it makes a lot of sense on paper. Education and support money never hurt anyone. The only thing I would add is that the level of emigration needs to be managed to keep it under control. Otherwise emigrants can influence locals more than locals emigrants.

I can understand Templar concern. He comes from the country that can't offer much to give to its citizens. How could they support new emigrants? Emigrants are scary proposition to them.

bicicleur
18-03-15, 18:40
i think you're not only very optimistic and idealistic, you're also very naive
as if Europe is able to solve the problems elsewhere in the world
and you ignore the fact that immigration is big business for criminal organisations
all this illegal immigration prevents Europe to help the real refugees who really have to fear for their lives

Lacroix
18-03-15, 18:48
i think you're not only very optimistic and idealistic, you're also very naive
as if Europe is able to solve the problems elsewhere in the world
and you ignore the fact that immigration is big business for criminal organisations
all this illegal immigration prevents Europe to help the real refugees who really have to fear for their lives

How would you try to solve the problem then? Taking in mind the criminal organisations?

bicicleur
19-03-15, 10:34
How would you try to solve the problem then? Taking in mind the criminal organisations?

you are optimistic, I am not
I see a serious problem with no easy solution
the criminal organisations are international

Maleth
19-03-15, 11:07
Hi,

I am a 24 year old student from the Netherlands and I am very Pro-EU. I came here with the hopes on meeting likeminded people to discuss and share ideas with. And ofcourse find anti-Europeans to argu with.

Also if you are a pro-european too add me as a friend.

Greetings,

Lacroix

Hello Lacoix, I am also pro EU and believe when one brings out the weighing scales and weighs the pros and cons the pros would make the heaviest chunk and tips the scales to its favour. This is as long as it remains loyal to regional sensitivities, open functioning type of communication, respect for human rights and minorities. Europe is a small continent but very diverse in culture which offers respect but no domination from a particular one. EU is also about economy, and security, stability and synergy with best practices can only guarantee this.

Maleth
19-03-15, 11:47
Lacroix what do you think about people who say that the EU removes an individual country's border control, and makes it vulneraleto illegal immigration from outside of the EU. For example, illegal immigrants get into Italy or Greece, and then from there they travel to the Netherlands with little opposition. And with the illegal immigrants comes a drain on welfare, higher crime rates, etc.

Who ever receives immigrants has to deal with them themselves, if they are caught travelling in another EU country they are sent back to the country that has rescued them or were they harbored in the first place. There is NO such thing as a FREE border in this case. This is creating a huge burden on the southern shores. Many people have a false impression of how these refuges and illegal immigrants are being treated. its a very mixed bag. Some are pure economic migrants who travel for a better life and seem to be to some degree being absorbed into economy and welcomed by the BIG BUISNESS communities as they provide low paid jobs mostly for the ones that locals are not interested to do. (reality).

Not all illegal immigrants can qualify as refuge status. Some are sent back, others are given protection (until things get better in their own countries and they have to go back). As far as I know none are given automatic citizenship and just temporary residential permits. So entering Europe is not a piece of cake like some people think it is.

Everyone has a right to live peacefully in their own countries especially when its resourceful but has a problem with corruption and mismanagement. Maybe Africa's is growing faster then what we think, and things did improve while much more needs to be done, so it will not always going to be the case that Africans need to discover new pastures. Hopefully a better standard of living will also bring better education and more human rights, so people can live well in their own countries. Only countries that are given a kind of refugee status are Somalis and Eritreans from all the African countries, others are not accepted. Recently there has been an influx from middle eastern countries, but remember that the biggest influx from Middle eastern wars are taken up (millions) by countries in the region like Turkey Jordan and Lebanon with massive refugee camps.