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Besa
20-03-15, 13:50
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7804845.stm

Besa
20-03-15, 14:07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardania_%28Europe%29#Roman_Dardania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani

Angela
20-03-15, 14:54
Very intriguing Besa, but what led this man to that conclusion? Was it based on his yDna? Do you know how much resolution there was in terms of sub-clades?

Also, is there documentation that the auxiliaries at this particular fort were always from that specific area in the Balkans?

Besa
20-03-15, 16:41
Very intriguing Besa, but what led this man to that conclusion? Was it based on his yDna? Do you know how much resolution there was in terms of sub-clades?

Also, is there documentation that the auxiliaries at this particular fort were always from that specific area in the Balkans?

there is a document written by steven bird about haplogroup ev-13 found in britain in small numbers and that it came from illyrian/thracian soldiers in the roman empire. the wright brothers carried the same haplogroup and they were originally from the essex area(?).. his claim about it coming from kosovo is based I think on the fact that its highest peak is among kosovar albanians. the region was under roman conquest like most of the balkans. The Dardanians became a big source among the roman empire with constantine the great, and justinian. but you are right to conclude that it exactly came from that area is not enough, but the conclusion is that it came from thracian/illyrian soldiers. this to me explains why haplogroup ev-13 and j2 is spread across the balkans, even in bulgaria where the thracians lived, it's high:

I think the Illyrians and thracians were majorly haplogroup EV-13 and J2 carriers, and maybe r1b (it might of come from celts and romans though or maybe through anatolia) I think they (illyrians&thracians) were related people, kinda like the Ingush and Chechens or like the Norwegians, Swedes and danes all these people carry much the same haplogroups.

I will try to find out more about this man.

for all I know it could also of come from south-Italy, where ancient greeks and messapians lived. but then again it goes back to the balkans

Angela
20-03-15, 18:36
This is what I could quickly find out about the subject. Here is a British government website on the Roman conquest, occupation, and settlement of Wales:
http://cadw.wales.gov.uk/docs/cadw/publications/InterpplanRomanConquestofWales_EN.pdf

It includes a map not only of the major (and minor) Roman fortresses, but of the roads and smaller vici or settlements of Roman soldiers and their "unofficial" families. I found it quite interesting.
7149

This site lists the major Roman fortresses in Britain. The last two are in Wales:
http://www.heritagedaily.com/2014/01/top-10-roman-forts-in-britain/100677

From what I can tell from that link, the Cohors Sunicorum was recruited in Belgica, and the Legio II Augusta from Italy, southern France and Spain. In southern France and particularly parts of Italy you can certainly find E-V13.

Also see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_II_Augusta

The Cohors Sunicorum is mentioned here in this article on Seguntium. The only connection I see with the Balkans is when it was stationed there centuries later.
http://www.betws31.freeserve.co.uk/Bath-house/Segontium/segontium.html

Of course that doesn't mean that there couldn't have been some legionnaires of Balkan descent.

Also, I wonder if it could have moved from the Chester area (Deva) over the border. The forts there were manned by the Legio II Adiutrix, many of whose Legionnaires were recruited in Egypt. (We probably wouldn't be talking about E-V13 in that case, however.)

Also involved was the XX Valeria Victrix, which was indeed stationed in the Balkans (Illyria).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_II_Adiutrix

Interestingly, assuming that we're talking about E-V13, as it wasn't mentioned in the article in the OP, the old Weale et all study found a high incidence of E-V13 in a small sample in Abergele, which is in northeast Wales, not northwest like the major Roman fortress in Wales, although I'm sure the Dna can travel distances like that.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Weale-MBE-02-AS.pdf

There was also the mention of this testing of northeast Wales and over the border into England:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2753008/posts

Has anyone heard any more about it? It's a pity that the recent POBI study hasn't released their yDna information yet.

I think I read on 23andme that the Sinclairs of Scotland are also E-V13. Is that right?

Anyway, while I think one could speculate that the E-V14 arrived with Roman Legionnaires, given that there are important mineral deposits in this area, I don't know why an earlier arrival connected with Copper Age mining is out of the question either.

I do get, btw, that for some men there's more allure in being a descendent of a soldier than of a miner or farmer, but I think both speculations are reasonable.:smile: What is needed is detailed subclade information.

Sile
20-03-15, 19:22
there is a document written by steven bird about haplogroup ev-13 found in britain in small numbers and that it came from illyrian/thracian soldiers in the roman empire. the wright brothers carried the same haplogroup and they were originally from the essex area(?).. his claim about it coming from kosovo is based I think on the fact that its highest peak is among kosovar albanians. the region was under roman conquest like most of the balkans. The Dardanians became a big source among the roman empire with constantine the great, and justinian. but you are right to conclude that it exactly came from that area is not enough, but the conclusion is that it came from thracian/illyrian soldiers. this to me explains why haplogroup ev-13 and j2 is spread across the balkans, even in bulgaria where the thracians lived, it's high:

I think the Illyrians and thracians were majorly haplogroup EV-13 and J2 carriers, and maybe r1b (it might of come from celts and romans though or maybe through anatolia) I think they (illyrians&thracians) were related people, kinda like the Ingush and Chechens or like the Norwegians, Swedes and danes all these people carry much the same haplogroups.

I will try to find out more about this man.

for all I know it could also of come from south-Italy, where ancient greeks and messapians lived. but then again it goes back to the balkans

I suggest you read this book for the area in question

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=QsJ183uUDkMC&pg=PA263&dq=dardani&hl=en&sa=X&ei=B1UMVYq2HaW1mAXd04CYBA&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=dardani&f=false

Dardani are not illyrian, they are either alone or a branch of the thracians.
Illyrian origins in the late bronze-age are around modern east austria, hungaria, slovenia , croatia and northern parts of bosnia...........history states, as the celts pushed into the illyrians in the north, the illyrians pushed into thracian montenegro, the dardani, the macedonians and eventually into the epirotes.........but mostly they failed having been stopped by the Macedonians as per my link.
Illyrians have barely any E marker in there origins in the northern balkans.

The thracians are the majority in the balkans in terms of tribes and number of people in the pre roman times.............as herodorus states.....the Thracians are the most populus nation after the Indians

Besa
20-03-15, 21:43
I suggest you read this book for the area in question

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=QsJ183uUDkMC&pg=PA263&dq=dardani&hl=en&sa=X&ei=B1UMVYq2HaW1mAXd04CYBA&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=dardani&f=false

Dardani are not illyrian, they are either alone or a branch of the thracians.
Illyrian origins in the late bronze-age are around modern east austria, hungaria, slovenia , croatia and northern parts of bosnia...........history states, as the celts pushed into the illyrians in the north, the illyrians pushed into thracian montenegro, the dardani, the macedonians and eventually into the epirotes.........but mostly they failed having been stopped by the Macedonians as per my link.
Illyrians have barely any E marker in there origins in the northern balkans.

The thracians are the majority in the balkans in terms of tribes and number of people in the pre roman times.............as herodorus states.....the Thracians are the most populus nation after the Indians

Go ahead and tell me what haplogroup Illyrians belonged to?

Dardani are Illyrians. there lived Illyrians, thracians and Celts, it was a contact zone. Constantine the great who was from Dardania was Illyrian. so was Justinian. both are recorded of being illyrians. Thracians and illyrians might of been related as I said, of course they were. they were neighbors. Dardani might of been thraco-illyrians.

i2a? for that I suggest you take a look at the thread ''how did i2a get to the balkans'' take a look at some of the last pages. Its already explained i2a is from a recent immigration to the balkans. That leaves mostly EV-13, J2, and R1b left.


Actually Illyrians lived all the way down to modern day south-Albania. these were actually the ''real'' Illyrians. from south albania and montenegro/dalmatia today. they came in contact with greeks. it's even said the northern neighbors of the greeks were illyrians. The Liburnians were not Illyrians. I know you're one of those persons who actually thinks illyrians were i2a, this has already been disproven. But no one wants to face the truth. Illyrians don't have origin in the northern balkans, their origin comes from the south where they immigrated north.

And allot of the ''illyrian'' tribes in Bosnia were actually Celts or became celticized

As for the epirotes, they might of been a mix of ancient greek and illyrians, it doesn't really matter, they carried the same haplogroups. tell me how EV-13 and J2 became so high among greeks? Are they also Thracians? most of ancient greece was EV-13 and J2.. I believe there was a time in the balkans were most of it was EV-13 and J2 and maybe R1b...

Besa
20-03-15, 22:17
This is what I could quickly find out about the subject. Here is a British government website on the Roman conquest, occupation, and settlement of Wales:
http://cadw.wales.gov.uk/docs/cadw/publications/InterpplanRomanConquestofWales_EN.pdf

It includes a map not only of the major (and minor) Roman fortresses, but of the roads and smaller vici or settlements of Roman soldiers and their "unofficial" families. I found it quite interesting.
7149

This site lists the major Roman fortresses in Britain. The last two are in Wales:
http://www.heritagedaily.com/2014/01/top-10-roman-forts-in-britain/100677

From what I can tell from that link, the Cohors Sunicorum was recruited in Belgica, and the Legio II Augusta from Italy, southern France and Spain. In southern France and particularly parts of Italy you can certainly find E-V13.

Also see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_II_Augusta

The Cohors Sunicorum is mentioned here in this article on Seguntium. The only connection I see with the Balkans is when it was stationed there centuries later.
http://www.betws31.freeserve.co.uk/Bath-house/Segontium/segontium.html

Of course that doesn't mean that there couldn't have been some legionnaires of Balkan descent.

Also, I wonder if it could have moved from the Chester area (Deva) over the border. The forts there were manned by the Legio II Adiutrix, many of whose Legionnaires were recruited in Egypt. (We probably wouldn't be talking about E-V13 in that case, however.)

Also involved was the XX Valeria Victrix, which was indeed stationed in the Balkans (Illyria).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_II_Adiutrix

Interestingly, assuming that we're talking about E-V13, as it wasn't mentioned in the article in the OP, the old Weale et all study found a high incidence of E-V13 in a small sample in Abergele, which is in northeast Wales, not northwest like the major Roman fortress in Wales, although I'm sure the Dna can travel distances like that.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Weale-MBE-02-AS.pdf

There was also the mention of this testing of northeast Wales and over the border into England:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2753008/posts

Has anyone heard any more about it? It's a pity that the recent POBI study hasn't released their yDna information yet.

I think I read on 23andme that the Sinclairs of Scotland are also E-V13. Is that right?

Anyway, while I think one could speculate that the E-V14 arrived with Roman Legionnaires, given that there are important mineral deposits in this area, I don't know why an earlier arrival connected with Copper Age mining is out of the question either.

I do get, btw, that for some men there's more allure in being a descendent of a soldier than of a miner or farmer, but I think both speculations are reasonable.:smile: What is needed is detailed subclade information.

Thanks. I will take a look at this and report back;)

Yetos
20-03-15, 22:20
Go ahead and tell me what haplogroup Illyrians belonged to?

Dardani are Illyrians. there lived Illyrians, thracians and Celts, it was a contact zone. Constantine the great who was from Dardania was Illyrian. so was Justinian. both are recorded of being illyrians. Thracians and illyrians might of been related as I said, of course they were. they were neighbors. Dardani might of been thraco-illyrians.

i2a? for that I suggest you take a look at the thread ''how did i2a get to the balkans'' take a look at some of the last pages. Its already explained i2a is from a recent immigration to the balkans. That leaves mostly EV-13, J2, and R1b left.


Actually Illyrians lived all the way down to modern day south-Albania. these were actually the ''real'' Illyrians. from south albania and montenegro/dalmatia today. they came in contact with greeks. it's even said the northern neighbors of the greeks were illyrians. The Liburnians were not Illyrians. I know you're one of those persons who actually thinks illyrians were i2a, this has already been disproven. But no one wants to face the truth. Illyrians don't have origin in the northern balkans, their origin comes from the south where they immigrated north.

As for the epirotes, they might of been a mix of ancient greek and illyrians, it doesn't really matter, they carried the same haplogroups. tell me how EV-13 and J2 became so high among greeks?


CoNstantine the Great, Justinianus etc where Romans from Italy Naples,
They were Flavians,

so stop your sturpidty,
Greeks Serbs now Albanians, who nobody spoke about them at that time claim The Flavians

it is a pitty and stupidity. besides of a cheap propaganda,

Illyrians were from Norici, meaning no E no J Hg,

Besa
20-03-15, 22:42
CoNstantine the Great, Justinianus etc where Romans from Italy Naples,
They were Flavians,

so stop your sturpidty,
Greeks Serbs now Albanians, who nobody spoke about them at that time claim The Flavians

it is a pitty and stupidity. besides of a cheap propaganda,

Illyrians were from Norici, meaning no E no J Hg,

Constantine was Illyrian from fathers side, and from a thracian mother, born in nish.

Tell me what haplogroup they belonged to?

I'm not claiming anyone. I just find it interesting how people who speak a slavic language dare to question the origin of the Albanians. Did Albanians come from mars? There were no slavs in the balkans prior to the first slavic immigration. The way I see it, Albanians have more right to claim anything. Also genetic studies show they have little slavic genes, while slavs have more of their genes. does this ring a bell? Their language is non-slavic, and non-latin (but influenced) since they have words dating back to roman times, north of the jireck line.. both eastern romance influence (dardania) and western (dalmatia). their split between geg and tosk happened before the 2nd slavic immigration.

I2a came with the proto-Serbs and Proto-croats who settled in the balkans after being invited by the Romans in croatia and bosnia. I2a was spread across the balkans by the Serbian empire. It's peak is in Croatia and Bosnia, and also in Ukraine/moldova, where the proto-serbs and croats might of immigrated from.

The capital of Illyrians was Scodra (Shkodra in albania)

Also the haplogroup r1a in greek macedonia comes from the first slavic immigration, the ancient macedonians were majorly haplogroup EV-13 and J2 carriers... so maybe not so ''makedonian original'' after all ;)

Maleth
20-03-15, 22:53
CoNstantine the Great, Justinianus etc where Romans from Italy Naples,
They were Flavians,

so stop your sturpidty,


I dont know what HG mix the Illyrians were but Constantine the Great is known to be of Illyrian ancestry

Constantine the Great (Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language): Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus;[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great#cite_note-5) Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): Κωνσταντίνος ὁ Μέγας; 27 February c. 272 AD[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great#cite_note-birthdate-4) – 22 May 337 AD), also known as Constantine I or Saint Constantine,[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great#cite_note-6) was aRoman Emperor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Emperor) from 306 to 337 AD of Illyrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian) ancestry. Constantine was the son of Flavius Valerius Constantius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Valerius_Constantius), a Roman army officer, and his consort Helena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_of_Constantinople). His father became Caesar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(title)), the deputy emperor in the west in 293 AD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great

Sile
20-03-15, 23:13
Go ahead and tell me what haplogroup Illyrians belonged to?

Dardani are Illyrians. there lived Illyrians, thracians and Celts, it was a contact zone. Constantine the great who was from Dardania was Illyrian. so was Justinian. both are recorded of being illyrians. Thracians and illyrians might of been related as I said, of course they were. they were neighbors. Dardani might of been thraco-illyrians.

i2a? for that I suggest you take a look at the thread ''how did i2a get to the balkans'' take a look at some of the last pages. Its already explained i2a is from a recent immigration to the balkans. That leaves mostly EV-13, J2, and R1b left.


Actually Illyrians lived all the way down to modern day south-Albania. these were actually the ''real'' Illyrians. from south albania and montenegro/dalmatia today. they came in contact with greeks. it's even said the northern neighbors of the greeks were illyrians. The Liburnians were not Illyrians. I know you're one of those persons who actually thinks illyrians were i2a, this has already been disproven. But no one wants to face the truth. Illyrians don't have origin in the northern balkans, their origin comes from the south where they immigrated north.

And allot of the ''illyrian'' tribes in Bosnia were actually Celts or became celticized

As for the epirotes, they might of been a mix of ancient greek and illyrians, it doesn't really matter, they carried the same haplogroups. tell me how EV-13 and J2 became so high among greeks? Are they also Thracians? most of ancient greece was EV-13 and J2.. I believe there was a time in the balkans were most of it was EV-13 and J2 and maybe R1b...

the ancient term illyrian is a geographical terms , like scandinavia. the five major Illyrian tribes did not even speak the same language as per linguists, they had each their own royal house and each their own customs

Sile
20-03-15, 23:32
The 2006 Iberian congress on the markers of the Illyrian geographical areas is/was

Legend:
Autariates - serbia
Delmatae - Dalmatia (coastal croatia)
Noricum - eastern Austria
Taulanti - montenegro and northern albania
Dardanians - Kosovo
Liburni - coastal northern croatia and coastal slovenia
Veneti - North-east italy
Japodes - inland croatia and bosnia
Histri - Istria , modern slovenia and italy

Haplogroup I
(I1b-P37):
(Rootsi et
al., 2004), in the historical continental areas of
Autariates (63.80%)
Delmatae (48%),
Noricum (20%)
Taulanti (17%),
Dardanians (13.50%)
Liburni (9.5%),
Veneti (0.5%).
Japodes (0%)
Histri. (0%)


Haplogroup R
(R1b-M137):
Veneti (62%),
Autariates (27.27%)
Japodes (26.67%),
Noricum (21%),
Histri (18.18%),
Taulantii (17.60%),
Liburni (16.40%),
Dardanians (14.55%)
Delmatae (7.06%).


Haplogroup R1a:
Histri (45.45%),
Liburni (38.40%)
Noricum (37%),
Delmatae (22.58%),
Japodes (13.33%)
Autariates (12.10%),
Taulanti (9.80%)
Dardanians (8.82%).
Veneti. (0%)


Haplogrupa E
(E3b1-M78):
Dardanians (36.80%),
Taulantii (27%),
Japodes (13.33%),
Veneti (10.40%),
Histri (9.09%),
Autariates (8.50%)
Delmatae (4.66%).
Noricum (0%).


Haplogroup J (J2-M172):
Dardanians (15.02%)
Taulanti (14.30%),
Liburni (10.90%),
Veneti (9.60%)
Japodes (6.67%),
Delmatae (2.09%)
Autariates (1.40%).
Noricum ( 0%)
Histri (0%)


CONCLUSIONS
The obtained results demonstrate a clear northwestern/southeastern gradient pointing to a remarkable discrimination of the Northern Adriatic and Istria from other southeastern populations. The sub-differentiation of areas reflects quite clearly the effects of relative isolation of the continental mountain range with most conservative genetic traits as well as exposure of other analyzed areas to different neighbours, ecological niches, waves of intrusive immigrants introducing agriculture and later in Metal Ages, to waves of invading elites of different origin.

Besa
21-03-15, 00:47
The veneti were not Illyrians. many of those tribes were not Illyrians.. Carni, histri, liburni.. all these were not illyrians, the real illyrians had a southern origin... if i remember correctly illyrians were a tribe who came into contact with greeks and then greeks started calling everyone in the north for illyrians?

You're forgetting the fact that balkans was conquered by Romans, and there were a people called '' white croats and white serbs'' who were invited to croatia and bosnia by the romans, that's how I2adin came to the balkans.

Greying Wanderer
21-03-15, 05:34
It's not proof by any means but the Romans made a point of mentioning that the population of Wales was darker than the rest of the Britons so I think the E ydna in Wales is more likely to be pre-Roman which I think is most likely to be descended from Atlantic Megalith.

Besa
21-03-15, 07:21
It's not proof by any means but the Romans made a point of mentioning that the population of Wales was darker than the rest of the Britons so I think the E ydna in Wales is more likely to be pre-Roman which I think is most likely to be descended from Atlantic Megalith.

that is true, the people of wales are known to have a higher percentage of meds even today. but how?

bicicleur
21-03-15, 11:18
There are more such stories like this one about J2b in the SE of Netherlands who claim to be descendants of Thracian legionnaires :
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473217516068948&set=gm.594232983927034&type=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473217516068948&set=gm.594232983927034&type=1&theater
I guess they tell this kind of stories because people like to hear them.
They may be true but there is no proof. It just helps to sell DNA tests.

giuseppe rossi
21-03-15, 12:48
It's not proof by any means but the Romans made a point of mentioning that the population of Wales was darker than the rest of the Britons so I think the E ydna in Wales is more likely to be pre-Roman which I think is most likely to be descended from Atlantic Megalith.

After the Neolitich Revolution, there were no South to North movements along the Atlantic coast.

Britain and Ireland were settled by people from the East only: Germany, Belgium, etc...

The Irish have higher ANE than the English. So did the Belgae from Southern England 2000 years ago.

Aberdeen
21-03-15, 19:11
After the Neolitich Revolution, there were no South to North movements along the Atlantic coast.

Britain and Ireland were settled by people from the East only: Germany, Belgium, etc...

The Irish have higher ANE than the English. So did the Belgae from Southern England 2000 years ago.

That is extremely improbable. Until quite recently, it was much easier to travel by sea than by land. There was some movement by land, but one only has to look at the distribution pattern of R1b in western Europe to realize that much of it arrived by sea.

Some countries in the northern part of western Europe have higher ANE from WHG, and specifically from mtDNA U5.

Sile
21-03-15, 19:15
There are more such stories like this one about J2b in the SE of Netherlands who claim to be descendants of Thracian legionnaires :
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473217516068948&set=gm.594232983927034&type=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473217516068948&set=gm.594232983927034&type=1&theater
I guess they tell this kind of stories because people like to hear them.
They may be true but there is no proof. It just helps to sell DNA tests.

I tend to agree with the british historians of the Roman legions that served in the UK, it seems they cannot find an "illyrian" Legion , but have found thracian and dacian legions from the balkans.

Maleth
21-03-15, 19:57
I tend to agree with the british historians of the Roman legions that served in the UK, it seems they cannot find an "illyrian" Legion , but have found thracian and dacian legions from the balkans.

My question is if Scandinavia (who was not conquered by Romans) has same % of E-V13 2/3/4% (highest found in Denmark) like in Britian, it is highly likely that the source may not be contributed just to Roman sources.

mihaitzateo
21-03-15, 20:14
there is a document written by steven bird about haplogroup ev-13 found in britain in small numbers and that it came from illyrian/thracian soldiers in the roman empire. the wright brothers carried the same haplogroup and they were originally from the essex area(?).. his claim about it coming from kosovo is based I think on the fact that its highest peak is among kosovar albanians. the region was under roman conquest like most of the balkans. The Dardanians became a big source among the roman empire with constantine the great, and justinian. but you are right to conclude that it exactly came from that area is not enough, but the conclusion is that it came from thracian/illyrian soldiers. this to me explains why haplogroup ev-13 and j2 is spread across the balkans, even in bulgaria where the thracians lived, it's high:

I think the Illyrians and thracians were majorly haplogroup EV-13 and J2 carriers, and maybe r1b (it might of come from celts and romans though or maybe through anatolia) I think they (illyrians&thracians) were related people, kinda like the Ingush and Chechens or like the Norwegians, Swedes and danes all these people carry much the same haplogroups.

I will try to find out more about this man.

for all I know it could also of come from south-Italy, where ancient greeks and messapians lived. but then again it goes back to the balkans
Lol,no one said it was from "illyrian and thracian soldiers" it said it was from Balkan colonists.
Thracians were not land workers,they were warriors :D .
Look at what that Greek historian is saying,that Thracians were considering tilling of the land shameful but were considering living from war honorable.
So think again before telling E-V13 from Great Britain is from Thracians and not from Balkanic peasants,which Roman Empire took from Balkans or conquered part of Dacia and moved to Great Britain,because was needed of workers in agriculture :D .
To make from a worker that was moved by force a "Thracian soldier" is just lol mode.
You know Roman Empire army was very professional army,a E-V13 farmer would not have even knew to put the armor on him,not to mention wielding of a sword or blocking with a shield and other more advanced fight techniques.
Besa,maybe you will tell us about how Albanian authorities are changing the name of the people to pretend they are descendants of Illyrians.

You know,you are Neolithic peasants,you should have great skills at working in agriculture,which you should better start to do,Europe needs lots of skilled workers in agriculture.
Most of your ancestors are here from before Thracians and Illyrians, your ancestors were working the land to give food to Thracians and Illyrians.

Maleth
21-03-15, 20:33
Lol,no one said it was from "illyrian and thracian soldiers" it said it was from Balkan colonists.
Thracians were not land workers,they were warriors :D .
Look at what that Greek historian is saying,that Thracians were considering tilling of the land shameful but were considering living from war honorable.
So think again before telling E-V13 from Great Britain is from Thracians and not from Balkanic peasants,which Roman Empire took from Balkans or conquered part of Dacia and moved to Great Britain,because was needed of workers in agriculture :D .
To make from a worker that was moved by force a "Thracian soldier" is just lol mode.
You know Roman Empire army was very professional army,a E-V13 farmer would not have even knew to put the armor on him,not to mention wielding of a sword or blocking with a shield and other more advanced fight techniques.
Besa,maybe you will tell us about how Albanian authorities are changing the name of the people to pretend they are descendants of Illyrians.

You know,you are Neolithic peasants,you should have great skills at working in agriculture,which you should better start to do,Europe needs lots of skilled workers in agriculture.
Most of your ancestors are here from before Thracians and Illyrians, your ancestors were working the land to give food to Thracians and Illyrians.

Are you for real? are you suffering from some kind of E-V13 phobia? Agriculture is what gave rise to civilization and E people might have been just part of it as it was probable that the first agricultural communities were already a mix of HG. What is so honorable in living on plunder and booty?

mihaitzateo
21-03-15, 20:54
Are you for real? are you suffering from some kind of E-V13 phobia? Agriculture is what gave rise to civilization and E people might have been just part of it as it was probable that the first agricultural communities were already a mix of HG. What is so honorable in living on plunder and booty?
Where I said that living on plunder is honorable?
I just quoted what a Greek historian was telling about Thracians.
I do not have any E-V13 phobia,I just said that most likely those Balkanic people were not Thracian soldiers,but simple peasants that were forced moved to Great Britain.

Maleth
21-03-15, 20:57
Where I said that living on plunder is honorable?
I just quoted what a Greek historian was telling about Thracians.
I do not have any E-V13 phobia,I just said that most likely those Balkanic people were not Thracian soldiers,but simple peasants that were forced moved to Great Britain.

Jolly good


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n6PTcvzT7M

Besa
21-03-15, 22:58
Lol,no one said it was from "illyrian and thracian soldiers" it said it was from Balkan colonists.
Thracians were not land workers,they were warriors :D .
Look at what that Greek historian is saying,that Thracians were considering tilling of the land shameful but were considering living from war honorable.
So think again before telling E-V13 from Great Britain is from Thracians and not from Balkanic peasants,which Roman Empire took from Balkans or conquered part of Dacia and moved to Great Britain,because was needed of workers in agriculture :D .
To make from a worker that was moved by force a "Thracian soldier" is just lol mode.
You know Roman Empire army was very professional army,a E-V13 farmer would not have even knew to put the armor on him,not to mention wielding of a sword or blocking with a shield and other more advanced fight techniques.
Besa,maybe you will tell us about how Albanian authorities are changing the name of the people to pretend they are descendants of Illyrians.

You know,you are Neolithic peasants,you should have great skills at working in agriculture,which you should better start to do,Europe needs lots of skilled workers in agriculture.
Most of your ancestors are here from before Thracians and Illyrians, your ancestors were working the land to give food to Thracians and Illyrians.

Man you have some psychological problems. all you people from the balkans who hate us and the ones who support you. You need some serious help. You speak a latinized language, south slavs speak a slavic language, should I say more? I told you 100 times I2a cannot be illyrian.. as I explained Illyrians influenced allot of languages around the area paenonians, macedonians, epirotans etc. i2a would be much higher around these areas, must of it is high in south slavs. especially croats and bosnia area.. where they settled. I2a lacks majorly around the region of Dardania. i2a came with the 2nd slavic immigration. r1a came in two waves probably... R1a in greece, especially macedonia is from proto-slavs, from sclaveni and ante who pillaged the region. and not from ancient greeks who created a new identity. you're just stealing history. the majority of ancient greeks, illyrians and thracians were EV-13 and J2. they had the same genes. the pelasgians came first carrying E, who spoke a non greek language, and then came greeks and Pelasgians mixed, but ancient greek historians noted Pelasgians spoke a non-greek language, which can only be identified with Albanian. some Pelasgians immigrated north.. ancient greek historians quote a pelasgian man was the ancestor of epirotans, and from there illyrians were created and from there thracians-dacians, and macedonians, paenoians... all the people were related majorly carrying EV-13 and J2.. why do you think its all across balkans and even europe? Only difference between Albanians
and greeks is , greeks have higher slavic associated genes, r1a and i2a. because slavs settled around these areas.. Same goes for Romanians and Aromanians, they have higher slavic genes... south slavs have more of Albanian genes, but Albanians have less of their genes. you tell me and do the math.

the only ones pretending to be illyrians are south slavs, croats, bosniaks and serbs calling themselves illyrians. I'm sorry but its laughable. Where did Albanian language come from? Why do you speak slavic and latin? please tell me mr.sherlock... I already posted Albanian - dacian-thracian related words, you cannot steal history. Most of these Illyrian tribes can only be explained in Albanian, like Dardania, illyrian: darde alb: dardhe, which means pear... Go get a life. what is your problem? We have more connection with these people than any of you. How do you even dare to question our ancestry, our language is the only language, together with greek, considered to be paleo-balkanic, the rest disappeared.You people started speaking latin and slavic.. yet you question our identity? Show me a proof of south slavs being illyrians, except for the fact that they inhabit some of the lands where they live, which is why they carry EV-13..

Balkanic peasents? EV-13 is very high in Romanians and most of balkans, you are descendant of peasents? somehow Albanians have the least genes associated with slavs, but they are not illyrians? Map of EV-13, who are these ''peasents'' descendants from? not illyrians, not thracians, not dacians... hmmmmm are there any other groups: I think your brain has difficulty understanding were the only ones speaking a non-slavic language, non latin... but somehow your illyrians/thracians? I hope you are joking:

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

Besa
21-03-15, 23:08
Lol,no one said it was from "illyrian and thracian soldiers" it said it was from Balkan colonists.
Thracians were not land workers,they were warriors :D .
Look at what that Greek historian is saying,that Thracians were considering tilling of the land shameful but were considering living from war honorable.
So think again before telling E-V13 from Great Britain is from Thracians and not from Balkanic peasants,which Roman Empire took from Balkans or conquered part of Dacia and moved to Great Britain,because was needed of workers in agriculture :D .
To make from a worker that was moved by force a "Thracian soldier" is just lol mode.
You know Roman Empire army was very professional army,a E-V13 farmer would not have even knew to put the armor on him,not to mention wielding of a sword or blocking with a shield and other more advanced fight techniques.
Besa,maybe you will tell us about how Albanian authorities are changing the name of the people to pretend they are descendants of Illyrians.

You know,you are Neolithic peasants,you should have great skills at working in agriculture,which you should better start to do,Europe needs lots of skilled workers in agriculture.
Most of your ancestors are here from before Thracians and Illyrians, your ancestors were working the land to give food to Thracians and Illyrians.

Looks like someone needs to learn some history. the Roman empire conquered most of the Balkans. how could they trace it back to balkan colonists in Kosovo? these colonists could of come from Italy, france etc.. It's based on the fact that EV-13 peaks among kosovar Albanians, but it could of also come from italy for example, or it could of come before roman empire as people have stated earlier... tell me about the Messapians who lived in italy, considered by many Illyrians, i2a is non-exist in that region, its mostly EV-13 and J2.

Besa
21-03-15, 23:16
Did I also mention, before Roman empire there were no slavic and latin speaking people. But you are Illyrians-Thracians? Albanian language came from jupiter.

Looks like someone did a genetic test and came i2a-''dinaric'' ?

Besa
21-03-15, 23:21
I tend to agree with the british historians of the Roman legions that served in the UK, it seems they cannot find an "illyrian" Legion , but have found thracian and dacian legions from the balkans.

Illyrians were also known to be emperors and legions. Was there really any genetic difference between Illyrians and Thracians? I doubt it.

I don't really care about Illyrians, Thracians or balkan history. What I care about is how they steal our lands. I may be a nationalist, because I feel all the hate from them (the nationalists) but I'm no child murder or women murder.. If I ever go to war, the innocent people will be spared. Unlike Milosovic the child killing bastard.. with the claim that they are illyrians, which is absolutely nonsense, they will try to steal our lands. It is historically recorded that they came here, invited by the romans, who conquered our lands... But People like me educate themselves on this subject. Kosovo became part of Serbian empire in 13th century, it was conquered by the sword, the people living there were ancestors of Albanians. This is even proven by the tosk and geg split which preceds the slavic immigrations, and the latin words from roman empire, both west (dalmatia, montenegro) and east (Dardania). We lived were we lived today.. we lived all across the lands you live in too.. Same goes for other regions, Albania was a state created by the west in 1912, its a made up country, Albania is bigger... most of Albanian inhabited lands were given to slavs by the west. Slavs came to these regions through the Serbian empire and pillaged the indigenous population.. these are historical facts. there isn't much difference between macedonian slavs, bulgarians and albanians either... except they have higher slavic associated genes (r1a, i2a), and we don't speak a slavicized language, but somehow we are not the indigenous population? Keep lying to yourself. We are locked inside balkan. because you came here and stole our lands, first you settled in croatia and bosnia, from there the Serbian empire spread all to greece, killing the indigenous population... But we are not indigenous? How dare you to even question our ancestry? We survived your bullshit. You took over our lands, you created new lands.. You took over Kosovo, built your churches, your people settled there.. Ottoman empire came and we managed to take it back, MY ANCESTORS LIVED THERE BEFORE EVEN OTTOMAN EMPIRE CAME, WE LIVED IN THE VALLEYS.. AWAY from you. THis is backed up with the fact that we were Christians and carried a different (christian) surname from today.. then it was given again to you again by the west in 1912.. and today its independent, yet you say kosovo belongs to you? So were majority of inhabited Albanian lands, like malesia, the catholic albanians there fought the ottomans and beat them yet this region was given to Slavs by the west.. today its part of montenegro.. There were no slavic speakers in these regions before roman empire... ONLY DARDANIANS, ILLYRIANS, THRACIANS, only language it can be identified with is ALBANIAN. TAKE A LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT I POSTED in ''how did i2a din come to the balkans'' - ALBANIAN - ROMANIAN - AROMANIAN - DACIAN-THRACIAN words.. SCROLL DOWN, YOU'LL SEE MOST OF THE WORDS ARE FROM DACIAN, A DIALECT OF THRACIAN, SAME MEANING IN THRACIAN... THRACIAN AND ILLYRIAN FORMED A BRANCH, THRAKO-ILLYRIAN AROUND DARDANIA!

Atleast there are people who admit i2a''dinaric'' and R1a has nothing to do with Illyrians/thracians-dacians. Also to prove what haplogroups these belonged to, lets say you find bones, one needs to see if these bones predates slavic immigrations, I'm just saying this incase they try to make a stupid claim again and forge history.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CREATE OUR ALBANIA, NOT THE ALBANIA CREATED IN 1912 BY THE WEST, BUT OURS!!!! YOU CAME HERE, YOU PUSHED DOWN WARDS, CREATED SLAVIC COUNTRIES, YOU LAND LOCKED US, ONLY THING WE BORDER IS ITALY ACROSS THE ADRIATIC SEA, WE ARE THE SURVIVING THRAKO-ILLYRIAN TRIBES WHO BARELY MIXED WITH SLAVS (I2A & R1A), AND MOSTLY KEPT OUR LANGUAGE, YOU FORGED HISTORY, SOME HISTORIANS MENTION YOU AS ILLYRIANS ONLY BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE LANDS YOU CONQUERED.

I CAME TO NORWAY BECAUSE OF THE WAR, I DIDN'T CHOOSE THAT PATH, I WAS A KID, I WILL RETURN BACK TO MY HOMELAND!!!

Melancon
22-03-15, 00:31
Man you have some psychological problems. all you people from the balkans who hate us and the ones who support you. You need some serious help. You speak a latinized language, south slavs speak a slavic language, should I say more? I told you 100 times I2a cannot be illyrian.. as I explained Illyrians influenced allot of languages around the area paenonians, macedonians, epirotans etc. i2a would be much higher around these areas, must of it is high in south slavs. especially croats and bosnia area.. where they settled. I2a lacks majorly around the region of Dardania. i2a came with the 2nd slavic immigration. r1a came in two waves probably... R1a in greece, especially macedonia is from proto-slavs, from sclaveni and ante who pillaged the region. and not from ancient greeks who created a new identity. you're just stealing history. the majority of ancient greeks, illyrians and thracians were EV-13 and J2. they had the same genes. the pelasgians came first carrying E, who spoke a non greek language, and then came greeks and Pelasgians mixed, but ancient greek historians noted Pelasgians spoke a non-greek language, which can only be identified with Albanian. some Pelasgians immigrated north.. ancient greek historians quote a pelasgian man was the ancestor of epirotans, and from there illyrians were created and from there thracians-dacians, and macedonians, paenoians... all the people were related majorly carrying EV-13 and J2.. why do you think its all across balkans and even europe? Only difference between Albanians
and greeks is , greeks have higher slavic associated genes, r1a and i2a. because slavs settled around these areas.. Same goes for Romanians and Aromanians, they have higher slavic genes... south slavs have more of Albanian genes, but Albanians have less of their genes. you tell me and do the math.

the only ones pretending to be illyrians are south slavs, croats, bosniaks and serbs calling themselves illyrians. I'm sorry but its laughable. Where did Albanian language come from? Why do you speak slavic and latin? please tell me mr.sherlock... I already posted Albanian - dacian-thracian related words, you cannot steal history. Most of these Illyrian tribes can only be explained in Albanian, like Dardania, illyrian: darde alb: dardhe, which means pear... Go get a life. what is your problem? We have more connection with these people than any of you. How do you even dare to question our ancestry, our language is the only language, together with greek, considered to be paleo-balkanic, the rest disappeared.You people started speaking latin and slavic.. yet you question our identity? Show me a proof of south slavs being illyrians, except for the fact that they inhabit some of the lands where they live, which is why they carry EV-13..

Balkanic peasents? EV-13 is very high in Romanians and most of balkans, you are descendant of peasents? somehow Albanians have the least genes associated with slavs, but they are not illyrians? Map of EV-13, who are these ''peasents'' descendants from? not illyrians, not thracians, not dacians... hmmmmm are there any other groups: I think your brain has difficulty understanding were the only ones speaking a non-slavic language, non latin... but somehow your illyrians/thracians? I hope you are joking:I think I debated a few months back with people here on this very issue. If you look very closely; you will notice in the populations of the Balkans; that the Romanians have more genetic similarity to Albanians than they do Croats or Bosnians; even though both carry I2.

They have very distinct subclades. Notice Albania is filled with E-V13, so is Bulgaria and Southern Romania. So it is probably more likely that Albanians were in some way relative to Thracians, not Illyrians.

7154

Small R1b-Z103 residual in Albania; also seen in Bulgaria and Romania; just like E-V13.

7155

The other majorly distributed Y-DNA in Albanians also seems to be very similar in frequency; showing high levels in Bulgarians and Romanians. But almost a lack of it in Dalmatia, Croatia.

Yetos
22-03-15, 00:34
Constantine was Illyrian from fathers side, and from a thracian mother, born in nish.

Tell me what haplogroup they belonged to?

I'm not claiming anyone. I just find it interesting how people who speak a slavic language dare to question the origin of the Albanians. Did Albanians come from mars? There were no slavs in the balkans prior to the first slavic immigration. The way I see it, Albanians have more right to claim anything. Also genetic studies show they have little slavic genes, while slavs have more of their genes. does this ring a bell? Their language is non-slavic, and non-latin (but influenced) since they have words dating back to roman times, north of the jireck line.. both eastern romance influence (dardania) and western (dalmatia). their split between geg and tosk happened before the 2nd slavic immigration.

I2a came with the proto-Serbs and Proto-croats who settled in the balkans after being invited by the Romans in croatia and bosnia. I2a was spread across the balkans by the Serbian empire. It's peak is in Croatia and Bosnia, and also in Ukraine/moldova, where the proto-serbs and croats might of immigrated from.

The capital of Illyrians was Scodra (Shkodra in albania)

Also the haplogroup r1a in greek macedonia comes from the first slavic immigration, the ancient macedonians were majorly haplogroup EV-13 and J2 carriers... so maybe not so ''makedonian original'' after all ;)


Nis or better ΝΑΙΣΣΟΣ

army base of Flavia legion,
or better IV FLAVIA FELIX

stop stupidity,

All thse had a family name Flavius, why?
search history to learn who Flavians were,

and stop stupid Propaganda,

Even today Archaiologists admits about Illyrians, due to Historicals, but nothing Illyrian found,
Especially in NAISSOS, which was a clear Roman City,


AND ABOUT ELLENE ΕΛΕΝΗ, She was not Thracian, but Bithynian, from the Greek colony ΔΡΕΑΠΑΝΟΝ
today the town is named
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalova

I am tired of the stupidity that all Greeks Albanians Serbs etc claim about a roman emperror as their belong.

they were all Flavians, and in case of Elleni there is a small chance to was a british,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavian_dynasty

FLAVIANS LOST ROME,
BUT DISCOVER EAST,
AND BUILD NOVA ROMA,
THE HISTORY OF THE LEGIONS
4 FLAVIA FELIX
4 MACEDONICA etc etc

IN Today Thessaly some Aromanians are descendants of that Legion,
as also in Romania Iasion etc etc

PalaioPharsallos or old Versailles,

MOST AROMANI POPULATIONS ARE FROM VETERANS OF THAT LEGIONS,

ENOUGH

If you want to search about their Family search also in Kostolac Srebia

These Legions is the main Reason that Romania is speaking Latin instead of Thracian or Slavic,

The V Legio Macedonica,
that is the oposite Legion of Flavia,
expelled in North parts of Romania,
Did not had the chance to rule empire, until the coming of Bulgars,
the remnants officers resettled in East Makedonia and Thessaloniki,
the Aromani at the East parts of Makedonia,
there is chance that Makedonian Dynasty was from that legion, although some claim an armenian origin
although the return to Greek as primary mainly by that Dynasty, shows a Greek heritage or Influence,

Melancon
22-03-15, 00:49
Illyrians were also known to be emperors and legions. Was there really any genetic difference between Illyrians and Thracians? I doubt it.

I don't really care about Illyrians, Thracians or balkan history. What I care about is how they steal our lands. I may be a nationalist, because I feel all the hate from them (the nationalists) but I'm no child murder or women murder.. If I ever go to war, the innocent people will be spared. Unlike Milosovic the child killing bastard.. with the claim that they are illyrians, which is absolutely nonsense, they will try to steal our lands. It is historically recorded that they came here, invited by the romans, who conquered our lands... But People like me educate themselves on this subject. Kosovo became part of Serbian empire in 13th century, it was conquered by the sword, the people living there were ancestors of Albanians. This is even proven by the tosk and geg split which preceds the slavic immigrations, and the latin words from roman empire, both west (dalmatia, montenegro) and east (Dardania). We lived were we lived today.. we lived all across the lands you live in too.. Same goes for other regions, Albania was a state created by the west in 1912, its a made up country, Albania is bigger... most of Albanian inhabited lands were given to slavs by the west. Slavs came to these regions through the Serbian empire and pillaged the indigenous population.. these are historical facts. there isn't much difference between macedonian slavs, bulgarians and albanians either... except they have higher slavic associated genes (r1a, i2a), and we don't speak a slavicized language, but somehow we are not the indigenous population? Keep lying to yourself. We are locked inside balkan. because you came here and stole our lands, first you settled in croatia and bosnia, from there the Serbian empire spread all to greece, killing the indigenous population... But we are not indigenous? How dare you to even question our ancestry? We survived your bullshit. You took over our lands, you created new lands.. You took over Kosovo, built your churches, your people settled there.. Ottoman empire came and we managed to take it back, MY ANCESTORS LIVED THERE BEFORE EVEN OTTOMAN EMPIRE CAME, WE LIVED IN THE VALLEYS.. AWAY from you. THis is backed up with the fact that we were Christians and carried a different (christian) surname from today.. then it was given again to you again by the west in 1912.. and today its independent, yet you say kosovo belongs to you? So were majority of inhabited Albanian lands, like malesia, the catholic albanians there fought the ottomans and beat them yet this region was given to Slavs by the west.. today its part of montenegro.. There were no slavic speakers in these regions before roman empire... ONLY DARDANIANS, ILLYRIANS, THRACIANS, only language it can be identified with is ALBANIAN. TAKE A LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT I POSTED in ''how did i2a din come to the balkans'' - ALBANIAN - ROMANIAN - AROMANIAN - DACIAN-THRACIAN words.. SCROLL DOWN, YOU'LL SEE MOST OF THE WORDS ARE FROM DACIAN, A DIALECT OF THRACIAN, SAME MEANING IN THRACIAN... THRACIAN AND ILLYRIAN FORMED A BRANCH, THRAKO-ILLYRIAN AROUND DARDANIA!

Atleast there are people who admit i2a''dinaric'' and R1a has nothing to do with Illyrians/thracians-dacians. Also to prove what haplogroups these belonged to, lets say you find bones, one needs to see if these bones predates slavic immigrations, I'm just saying this incase they try to make a stupid claim again and forge history.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CREATE OUR ALBANIA, NOT THE ALBANIA CREATED IN 1912 BY THE WEST, BUT OURS!!!! YOU CAME HERE, YOU PUSHED DOWN WARDS, CREATED SLAVIC COUNTRIES, YOU LAND LOCKED US, ONLY THING WE BORDER IS ITALY ACROSS THE ADRIATIC SEA, WE ARE THE SURVIVING THRAKO-ILLYRIANS WHO BARELY MIXED WITH SLAVS (I2A & R1A) YOU FORGED HISTORY, SOME HISTORIANS MENTION YOU AS ILLYRIANS ONLY BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE LANDS YOU CONQUERED.Be careful what you say. It isn't Eupedia's responsibility for you to create these outbursts and hold grudges against your Balkanic neighbors and take care of your Nationalist issues.

Besa
22-03-15, 00:55
Please mr.sherlock, tell me how Albanians managed to lock themselves inside the balkans? all around are slavic countries and south is greece. We are the only non-slavic linguistically and genetically.. while they carry our genes (EV-13 and J2).. You gotta be mentally retarded to not even get it. Is it any wonder I have ''outbursts'' ... btw I don't have outburstts, it just looks like that because I type with caps lock


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lV97r1wFNjo/hqdefault.jpg

Besa
22-03-15, 00:59
Be careful what you say. It isn't Eupedia's responsibility for you to create these outbursts and hold grudges against your Balkanic neighbors and take care of your Nationalist issues.

Maybe they should do the same? Stealing our lands, and history, mocking us because we claim it? I have nothing against the peaceful Slavs who aren't so ignorant... You say I should take care of my issues, yet you do not advise them to do the same? Don't you see what they are doing? I know for a fact you support them, you were the one who claimed Albanians came from phrygians and from thrace, lmao. Your opinion is invalid, any theory to of not lived where we live.. Tell me how we got locked? Did we take a boat from italy? LMAO. no historical record, only made up conspiracies about Albanians, even illyrians lived in italy (messapians)

I2adin illyrian? Kim Jong is more illyrian

Melancon
22-03-15, 01:05
Please mr.sherlock, tell me how Albanians managed to lock themselves inside the balkans? all around are slavic countries and south is greece... You gotta be mentally retarded to not even get it.


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lV97r1wFNjo/hqdefault.jpgIt's not about not getting it. You're holding a grudge. And by what I know with genetics; some of your Albanian people may already been intermixed with most ethnic groups in the Balkans anyway. So you may have distant relatives in countries like Bulgaria, Romania, even Serbia.

And so, what difference does it make if there is an Ethnic or Greater Albania? It's not our problem.

Besa
22-03-15, 01:17
If you look at some of the threads, the way they argue. anything that Albanians are not indigenous. Even though I present them with evidence... its not about ethnic Albania, its the fact that we are indigenous more than south slavs. I don't think you even read what I wrote, I2a cannot be illyrian. I know they carry EV-13, r1b, J2 because they asimilated some illyrians and thracians or raped the women, Albanians are majorly EV-13 and J2, and R1b... very little i2a and r1a... the kosovar albanians have barely i2a or r1a (slavic associated genes)... While they (slavs) have our genes, and i2a and r1a... so you tell me? We came from mars?

Here is another picture, Albania is a made up country, there existed no albania... created in 1912, we always lived outside these places before slavs came... So you tell me how did we get locked? Make up a theory. If we are not Illyrians/thracians?We came from mars? All around us are slavs, created by the Serbian empire and Bulgarian empire. The point isn't greater Albania, the point is to show you where we live, how did we get locked around slavs? the Serbian empire took over all these regions all the way down to greece, and the bulgarian empire did the same... so how are Albanians locked? if they are not illyrians? how do they speak a non-slavic language, non-latin language?? only loan words... but slavs, who speak slavic, and took these regions over somehow are illyrians? You gotta be crazy... i2a''dinaric'' is a recent migration to the balkans 2000-1400 years old maybe... The Illyrians were EV-13 and J2 carriers, and spoke a non-slavic language.

When the proto-croats and proto-serbs settled in bosnia and croatia, the romans moved the indigenous populations, there is barely illyrian genes in Bosnia and Croatia, Serbia has more through the Serbian empire, which slavicized allot of people. Even Albanians in sandzak are slavicized, most of them are not even Bosnians. they had to change their names to slavic to avoid persecution, and no albanian schools were allowed. I'm having ''grudges''? of course when its people trying to steal our history and lands, claiming we came from somewhere else when they were the ones who came here, and to the ones who do carry our genes, well, you became slavic, its your problem....

http://www.novinite.com/media/photos_more/201204/path_898.jpg

Sile
22-03-15, 01:19
Illyrians were also known to be emperors and legions. Was there really any genetic difference between Illyrians and Thracians? I doubt it.

I don't really care about Illyrians, Thracians or balkan history. What I care about is how they steal our lands. I may be a nationalist, because I feel all the hate from them (the nationalists) but I'm no child murder or women murder.. If I ever go to war, the innocent people will be spared. Unlike Milosovic the child killing bastard.. with the claim that they are illyrians, which is absolutely nonsense, they will try to steal our lands. It is historically recorded that they came here, invited by the romans, who conquered our lands... But People like me educate themselves on this subject. Kosovo became part of Serbian empire in 13th century, it was conquered by the sword, the people living there were ancestors of Albanians. This is even proven by the tosk and geg split which preceds the slavic immigrations, and the latin words from roman empire, both west (dalmatia, montenegro) and east (Dardania). We lived were we lived today.. we lived all across the lands you live in too.. Same goes for other regions, Albania was a state created by the west in 1912, its a made up country, Albania is bigger... most of Albanian inhabited lands were given to slavs by the west. Slavs came to these regions through the Serbian empire and pillaged the indigenous population.. these are historical facts. there isn't much difference between macedonian slavs, bulgarians and albanians either... except they have higher slavic associated genes (r1a, i2a), and we don't speak a slavicized language, but somehow we are not the indigenous population? Keep lying to yourself. We are locked inside balkan. because you came here and stole our lands, first you settled in croatia and bosnia, from there the Serbian empire spread all to greece, killing the indigenous population... But we are not indigenous? How dare you to even question our ancestry? We survived your bullshit. You took over our lands, you created new lands.. You took over Kosovo, built your churches, your people settled there.. Ottoman empire came and we managed to take it back, MY ANCESTORS LIVED THERE BEFORE EVEN OTTOMAN EMPIRE CAME, WE LIVED IN THE VALLEYS.. AWAY from you. THis is backed up with the fact that we were Christians and carried a different (christian) surname from today.. then it was given again to you again by the west in 1912.. and today its independent, yet you say kosovo belongs to you? So were majority of inhabited Albanian lands, like malesia, the catholic albanians there fought the ottomans and beat them yet this region was given to Slavs by the west.. today its part of montenegro.. There were no slavic speakers in these regions before roman empire... ONLY DARDANIANS, ILLYRIANS, THRACIANS, only language it can be identified with is ALBANIAN. TAKE A LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT I POSTED in ''how did i2a din come to the balkans'' - ALBANIAN - ROMANIAN - AROMANIAN - DACIAN-THRACIAN words.. SCROLL DOWN, YOU'LL SEE MOST OF THE WORDS ARE FROM DACIAN, A DIALECT OF THRACIAN, SAME MEANING IN THRACIAN... THRACIAN AND ILLYRIAN FORMED A BRANCH, THRAKO-ILLYRIAN AROUND DARDANIA!

Atleast there are people who admit i2a''dinaric'' and R1a has nothing to do with Illyrians/thracians-dacians. Also to prove what haplogroups these belonged to, lets say you find bones, one needs to see if these bones predates slavic immigrations, I'm just saying this incase they try to make a stupid claim again and forge history.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CREATE OUR ALBANIA, NOT THE ALBANIA CREATED IN 1912 BY THE WEST, BUT OURS!!!! YOU CAME HERE, YOU PUSHED DOWN WARDS, CREATED SLAVIC COUNTRIES, YOU LAND LOCKED US, ONLY THING WE BORDER IS ITALY ACROSS THE ADRIATIC SEA, WE ARE THE SURVIVING THRAKO-ILLYRIAN TRIBES WHO BARELY MIXED WITH SLAVS (I2A & R1A), AND MOSTLY KEPT OUR LANGUAGE, YOU FORGED HISTORY, SOME HISTORIANS MENTION YOU AS ILLYRIANS ONLY BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE LANDS YOU CONQUERED.

I CAME TO NORWAY BECAUSE OF THE WAR, I DIDN'T CHOOSE THAT PATH, I WAS A KID, I WILL RETURN BACK TO MY HOMELAND!!!

all Nationalistic crap .............go read up on the differences of Illyrians and thracians

The albanians should count themselves very lucky, they have a country, there are Kurds who are a much older race that still do not have a country

Melancon
22-03-15, 01:19
Maybe they should do the same? Stealing our lands, and history, mocking us because we claim it? I have nothing against the peaceful Slavs who aren't so ignorant... You say I should take care of my issues, yet you do not advise them to do the same? Don't you see what they are doing? I know for a fact you support them, you were the one who claimed Albanians came from phrygians and from thrace, lmao. Your opinion is invalid, any theory to of not lived where we live.. Tell me how we got locked? Did we take a boat from italy? LMAO. no historical record, only made up conspiracies about Albanians, even illyrians lived in italy (messapians)

I2adin illyrian? Kim Jong is more illyrianI didn't claim; it was only a hypothesis based on ... HISTORICAL RECORDS.

Sile
22-03-15, 01:20
Here is another picture, Albania is a made up country, there existed no albania... created in 1912, we always lived outside these places before slavs came... So you tell me how did we get locked? Make up a theory.

http://www.novinite.com/media/photos_more/201204/path_898.jpg

propoganda map, based on nationalistic lies

Sile
22-03-15, 01:22
Please mr.sherlock, tell me how Albanians managed to lock themselves inside the balkans? all around are slavic countries and south is greece. We are the only non-slavic linguistically and genetically.. while they carry our genes (EV-13 and J2).. You gotta be mentally retarded to not even get it. Is it any wonder I have ''outbursts'' ... btw I don't have outburstts, it just looks like that because I type with caps lock


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lV97r1wFNjo/hqdefault.jpg

Albanians where gifted the lands by the Romans................why bring up modern issues

Melancon
22-03-15, 01:27
If you look at some of the threads, the way they argue. anything that Albanians are not indigenous. Even though I present them with evidence... its not about ethnic Albania, its the fact that we are indigenous more than south slavs. I don't think you even read what I wrote, I2a cannot be illyrian. I know they carry EV-13, r1b, J2 because they asimilated some illyrians and thracians or raped the women, Albanians are majorly EV-13 and J2, and R1b... very little i2a and r1a... the kosovar albanians have barely i2a or r1a (slavic associated genes)... While they have our genes, and i2a and r1a... so you tell me? We came from mars?

Here is another picture, Albania is a made up country, there existed no albania... created in 1912, we always lived outside these places before slavs came... So you tell me how did we get locked? Make up a theory. If we are not Illyrians/thracians?We came from mars? All around us are slavs, created by the Serbian empire and Bulgarian empire.They may be indigenous; but at some point they may have also migrated to the region as a tribe. Probably from the East. Your problem isn't mine and neither is it anyone else's here on Eupedia.

Your account is a bit suspicious; and I am wondering if you are King Bardhyl under a different account and internet protocol.

Besa
22-03-15, 01:59
They may be indigenous; but at some point they may have also migrated to the region as a tribe. Probably from the East. Your problem isn't mine and neither is it anyone else's here on Eupedia.

Your account is a bit suspicious; and I am wondering if you are King Bardhyl under a different account and internet protocol.

I'm no king bardhyl. Why would they of immigrated? because you want it to be that way? How did they immigrate there? Weren't there any people living there? They were there still before slavs, how else did they get locked? same regions where they lived. this is proven by the latin loan words. they lived in these regions during roman era, before slavs came, and in these regions lived illyrians and thracians, and celts who were under roman conquest.

Besa
22-03-15, 02:01
Albanians where gifted the lands by the Romans................what bring up modern issues

who really cares if the map isn't right? (which it actually is)

but the whole point is how did they get locked? montengro is a country created by the slavic empires, so is every other slavic country in the balkans, all these lands were conquered, how did Albanians immigrate to where they are? haha, we were gifted the lands by the romans? Show me historical evidence? There lived Illyrians and thracians in these lands during roman time, dardania for example, there were thracians and illyrians, many known emperors. This is what I'm talking about. you need to sort your issues out, not me... show me there were a different people living there who were given land by the romans?

IT was SLAVS who were invited by the romans to CROATIA and BOSNIA

I'm starting to think you're a greek/slav living in kangaroo land, who do you think you are to tell us we are not from balkan? we speak a language that came from balkan, you speak a language from poland... do I need to say more? you came here, your ass speaks slav, you locked us, took our lands.

Besa
22-03-15, 02:14
I didn't claim; it was only a hypothesis based on ... HISTORICAL RECORDS.

Show me, these HISTORICAL RECORDS? because most of the people living in these regions during roman era (before proto serb and croat immigration) there lived Dardanians-Illyrians-Thracians mostly in these regions. who were under roman empire. you had illyricum, epirus nova, roman dardania etc. So they must of asimilated the population? and kept calling themselves the same?

It's funny, how the people who most likey speak a illyrian-thracian language, and are locked by slavs; are the doubted ones, while romanians speak latin, south slavs speak slavic... hmmm.. it looks like you have a problem with Albanians, looks like you need to sort your issues out. Albanians are the surviving thrako-illyrians. It isn't my fault that you don't like it, you need to sort your issues out, you know... supporting one people, and having hatred for others is what controls your opinion.. you need to push that aside and be honest with yourself. no wonder this ''king bardhyl'' got banned its like talking to a bunch of douchebags.

It's already been said, by ken nordtvedt, i2a is from a migration to the balkans ca.2000 years old.. and he is right on the spot.

by the way, bardhyl is from illyrian barde, which meant white, which means the same in albanian. Did he tell you that? There are more linguistical connections both with thracian-illyrian and albanian than there is with any other language in the balkans... i've already posted a document thracian-dacian similar words and a list of illyrian words. even if you claim, ''it didn't derive from it'' there are more connections than your south slavic & latin languages.

Besa
22-03-15, 02:28
How could all slavic countries magically of been slavicized? still majorly carrying ''illyrian/thracian'' genes, yet the more from croatia you go, the more i2a diminishes? South slavs are people who always were slavs, they just found another identity and steal it because it suits their interests.

You're just trying to steal our history, our lands, wipe us off the map, like we came from somewhere else when there is enough historical record of you coming here, i've already posted that... you need to sort your issues out, even the owner of this site is in on it? He even claims r1a in greek macedonia is from ancient greeks, do you even read history? The proto slavs (r1a carriers), first immigration of slavs, sclaveni and antes, plundered that region and slavs even settled there, the r1a is from them... Your opinions are just based on the way you want it to be. The same about Albanians... sort your issues out.

Besa
22-03-15, 02:50
all Nationalistic crap .............go read up on the differences of Illyrians and thracians

The albanians should count themselves very lucky, they have a country, there are Kurds who are a much older race that still do not have a country

You're funny, south-slavs should count themselves lucky they even get to live in the balkans, because last time i checked there were no slavic speakers in the balkans before roman empire.. Albanians are an older race than south slavs. probably the oldest race in the balkans. How else did they get locked?, they speak a non-greek language (mostly tosks are influenced), non-slavic, yet carry the same haplogroups as greeks? same mythology, allot of similar culture... similar to other paleo-balkanic people (illyrians, thracians, dacians) but are locked between greeks and slavs... They carry high E and J2 and low i2a and r1a (especially gegs) which shows they didn't come from the north... The geographic location of them being locked shows it, their language shows it, do I need to say more? It shows they came here before YOU! And you're just mad about it... that's your problem, but you need to respect it.

thracians and illyrians, they carried the same haplogroups. there is even a branch proposed thrako-illyrian.

Melancon
22-03-15, 03:00
You're funny, south-slavs should count themselves lucky they even get to live in the balkans, because last time i checked there were no slavic speakers in the balkans before roman empire.. Albanians are an older race than south slavs. probably the oldest race in the balkans. How else did they get locked?, they speak a non-greek language (mostly tosks are influenced), non-slavic, yet carry the same haplogroups as greeks? same mythology, allot of similar culture... similar to other paleo-balkanic people (illyrians, thracians, dacians) but are locked between greeks and slavs... They carry high E and J2 and low i2a and r1a (especially gegs) which shows they didn't come from the north... The geographic location of them being locked shows it, their language shows it, do I need to say more? It shows they came here before YOU!

thracians and illyrians, they carried the same haplogroups. there is even a branch proposed thrako-illyrian.We are not Slavic people. At least I am not. And Eupedia also cannot help you with your nationalist issues here.

Besa
22-03-15, 03:11
We are not Slavic people. At least I am not. And Eupedia also cannot help you with your nationalist issues here.


answer all the points I brought up and then we can talk, stop saying I have issues, it's quite the opposite. I'm just telling the truth. Trying to open your eyes a little bit... instead of having hatred for people who are older than your ''race'', the oldest race in the balkans ;) you actually think if illyrians were i2a they would of lived in the balkans before ancient greeks? didn't they immigrate? I mean they were greek neighbors... there would be much higher i2a among greeks, and even Albanians since they live there, but hey, they share the same haplogroups with these ''albanians'', except for slavic associated genes.

Sort your issues out, then we can talk history.

Sile
22-03-15, 03:18
You're funny, south-slavs should count themselves lucky they even get to live in the balkans, because last time i checked there were no slavic speakers in the balkans before roman empire.. Albanians are an older race than south slavs. probably the oldest race in the balkans. How else did they get locked?, they speak a non-greek language (mostly tosks are influenced), non-slavic, yet carry the same haplogroups as greeks? same mythology, allot of similar culture... similar to other paleo-balkanic people (illyrians, thracians, dacians) but are locked between greeks and slavs... They carry high E and J2 and low i2a and r1a (especially gegs) which shows they didn't come from the north... The geographic location of them being locked shows it, their language shows it, do I need to say more? It shows they came here before YOU! And you're just mad about it... that's your problem, but you need to respect it.

thracians and illyrians, they carried the same haplogroups. there is even a branch proposed thrako-illyrian.

I am not slavic ............why are you whining .

the borders you put up are fabricated, what are they from ?, language?

Melancon
22-03-15, 03:20
instead of having hatred for people who are older than your ''race'', the oldest race in the balkans ;)

you actually think if illyrians were i2a they would of lived in the balkans before ancient greeks? didn't they immigrate? I mean they were greek neighbors... there would be much higher i2a among greeksActually Y-DNA I2 is older than any of the Albanian subclades. Including E-V13 which is Neolithic; and J2b and R1b which arrived in the Age of Metal.

Sile
22-03-15, 03:24
who really cares if the map isn't right? (which it actually is)

but the whole point is how did they get locked? montengro is a country created by the slavic empires, so is every other slavic country in the balkans, all these lands were conquered, how did Albanians immigrate to where they are? haha, we were gifted the lands by the romans? Show me historical evidence? There lived Illyrians and thracians in these lands during roman time, dardania for example, there were thracians and illyrians, many known emperors. This is what I'm talking about. you need to sort your issues out, not me... show me there were a different people living there who were given land by the romans?

IT was SLAVS who were invited by the romans to CROATIA and BOSNIA

I'm starting to think you're a greek/slav living in kangaroo land, who do you think you are to tell us we are not from balkan? we speak a language that came from balkan, you speak a language from poland... do I need to say more? you came here, your ass speaks slav, you locked us, took our lands.


what locked?, land locked?

Because the romans placed the albanians in a similar land-locked area they originated from.

i come from no slavic or greek stock

Sile
22-03-15, 03:26
They may be indigenous; but at some point they may have also migrated to the region as a tribe. Probably from the East. Your problem isn't mine and neither is it anyone else's here on Eupedia.

Your account is a bit suspicious; and I am wondering if you are King Bardhyl under a different account and internet protocol.

yes, i think he is king bardhyl.............a t r o l l

Sile
22-03-15, 03:27
I'm no king bardhyl. Why would they of immigrated? because you want it to be that way? How did they immigrate there? Weren't there any people living there? They were there still before slavs, how else did they get locked? same regions where they lived. this is proven by the latin loan words. they lived in these regions during roman era, before slavs came, and in these regions lived illyrians and thracians, and celts who were under roman conquest.

the dorians lived there in the bronze-age .......thats what the type of archeology tells us

mihaitzateo
22-03-15, 14:02
Again,E was not brought by any Indo-European speakers,it was brought by peasants,who were practicing agriculture and who moved from North Africa to Europa.
In Balkans,the E-V13 appeared,it seems.
Illyrians ,Thracians,Slavs,Dacians,neither carried E-V13.
They are ,all of them,Indo-Europeans.
Again,R1b-ht35/R1b-l23 which is very present in Albania ,Greece and also in a part of Romania is very likely linked to ancient Illyrians,Thracians,Greeks.
How the article is explained?
If someone finds some not typical haplogroup as his paternal line,he will most likely want to be the descendant of some great warrior.
So,this person from Great Britain thinks his ancestor was a Thracian soldier,that was fighting for Roman Empire and chosen to settle in Great Britain.
The reality is that is more likely that his ancestor was a Balkan peasant,forcibly brought to Great Britain by Roman Empire.
I highly doubt that Thracians that were fighting for Roman Empire were too many,for the simple reason Thracians and Dacians fought against Roman Empire and were defeated.
Same about Greek warriors.
Maybe they were some Thracians fighting in Roman Empire army,but most likely,most of them were R1b-L23.
How do you think R1b-L23 got so spread in Europe?
Besa,I already told you this is a serious history forum,stop being so aggressive ,think more,and speak less.
I think most people here agrees with the fact that R1b-L23 is linked to Ancient Greeks,Illyrians,Thracians.
Look at the map of R1b-L23,Albania,Romania,Greece got most,from Europe,as you move to Slavic lands,is almost absent ,there are even areas where is totally absent.
Also Italy,from Western Europe,got a higher percentage,how could this be explained?
I have no idea,but a good theory is that it got spread after Roman Empire conquest of Greece and Balkans.
EDIT:
Here:
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L23.gif
7158

One more thing,the title of the article is that :
"DNA links pensioner with Romans".
You wrote the title in a different way,saying is linking the pensioner with Kosovo.
Kosovo has a higher percentage of E-V13 because,very likely,the peaceful agricultural people that were in Balkans from before Illyirians,Thracians and other Indo-European people came, thought refuge in an area very mountainous .
If that guy has E-V13,did he took a deep clade analysis to be sure that his E-V13 is from Balkans?
I do not know,I am just asking.

giuseppe rossi
22-03-15, 18:52
That is extremely improbable. Until quite recently, it was much easier to travel by sea than by land. There was some movement by land, but one only has to look at the distribution pattern of R1b in western Europe to realize that much of it arrived by sea.

Some countries in the northern part of western Europe have higher ANE from WHG, and specifically from mtDNA U5.

R1b arrived from the East.

http://r1b.org/imgs/Early_R1b_Copper_Age_Migrations_v02.png

Maleth
22-03-15, 19:16
Again,E was not brought by any Indo-European speakers,it was brought by peasants,who were practicing agriculture and who moved from North Africa to Europa.

How interesting. Besides Maciamos hypothesis as one of 3 possibilities can you lead to more concrete evidence?



How the article is explained?
If someone finds some not typical haplogroup as his paternal line,he will most likely want to be the descendant of some great warrior.
So,this person from Great Britain thinks his ancestor was a Thracian soldier,that was fighting for Roman Empire and chosen to settle in Great Britain.
The reality is that is more likely that his ancestor was a Balkan peasant,forcibly brought to Great Britain by Roman Empire.
I highly doubt that Thracians that were fighting for Roman Empire were too many,for the simple reason Thracians and Dacians fought against Roman Empire and were defeated.

Relax, the theory did not come from Besa or this Pensioner, but quoting a paper by Steve Bird back in 2007 if not mistaken. You can always challenge him about your peasants import theory. I read more theories of How the at least 7000 year old E-V13 arrived in Europe, some said Gypsies, others said slaves, now we have the peasant theory. All sound so amazing.

Just a small question. Didnt the Celts know how to farm at that time?:smile: and how did the Romans know that E-V13 were good farmers to till their fields? they had it on their ID card (Excuse the pun) You find Stephen Bird on this forum. His theory has been challenged but not with a Peasant, Gypsie or slave theories (as yet) but more as Neolithic settlers

http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=0145047818e7ebd2001412d5493e2c 23&board=16.0




Albania,Romania,Greece got most,from Europe,as you move to Slavic lands,is almost absent ,there are even areas where is totally absent.
Also Italy,from Western Europe,got a higher percentage,how could this be explained?
I have no idea,but a good theory is that it got spread after Roman Empire conquest of Greece and Balkans.

according to Eupidia

E1b1b in Balkans :- not sure what % is E-V13 as they are not distinguished.

Serbia 18%
Romania 15%
Greece 21%
Montenegro 27%
Cyprus 20%
Macedonia 21.5%
Albania 27.5%
Bulgaria 23.5%
Bosnian Serbs 22.5%
Agean Islands 22%



other high figures outside balkans



Asturias 14%
Sicily 20.5%
Extramedura 18.5%
Castille & Leon 16 %
Galicia 22%

When one analyses all HG percentages there does not seem much difference, not sure why all this hysteria. Politics is one thing and DNA history is another. This phenomena is not just a Balkan one. Look at Western Europe and its DNA. How different is it? The Irish dont like the British, the British dont like the French, the French dont like the Germans so and so forth. So Politics and DNA are not the same thing. One just have to grow to feel comfortable with the facts.

Aberdeen
22-03-15, 21:35
R1b arrived from the East.

http://r1b.org/imgs/Early_R1b_Copper_Age_Migrations_v02.png

Yes, R1b arrived from the east, but the latest evidence shows that some of it arrived in western Europe earlier than some people have been assuming. And that map of the route R1b followed into western Europe is a theory, not a fact, and it doesn't fit some of the facts very well.

giuseppe rossi
22-03-15, 22:44
Neolitich R1b from Spain has not been tested for V88, so we don't really know how it fits in the whole scheme.

The map is the most correct you will find around.

Diurpaneus
24-03-15, 18:01
Again,E was not brought by any Indo-European speakers,it was brought by peasants,who were practicing agriculture and who moved from North Africa to Europa.
In Balkans,the E-V13 appeared,it seems.Illyrians ,Thracians,Slavs,Dacians,neither carried E-V13.

Maybe they were some Thracians fighting in Roman Empire army,but most likely,most of them were R1b-L23.
How do you think R1b-L23 got so spread in Europe?


It certainly proves the continuity of your people,the Szeklers,as heirs of many related groups:Thracians,Scythians,Sarmatians,Huns,Avars,U ralics,Magyars,Turkic.
Now seriously,this is racism and hypocrisy in its pure form.
And another thing,I thought that the Szeklers fought with honour,without using cheap tricks.
Unlike others, who first fought,then they thought.

Diurpaneus
25-03-15, 18:19
The Wietenberg population could have had plenty of E-V13.
They practiced cremation,here's a newly discovered necropolis, dating from 2000 BC, with 61 urns containing cremated remains:

http://www.academia.edu/10013539/THE_BRONZE_AGE_NECROPOLIS_AT_SEBE%C5%9E_%C3%8ENTRE _R%C4%82STOACE._PRELIMINARY_CONSIDERATIONS

These tribes were conquered by the Noua culture bearers(proto-Thracians) and switched their rite to inhumation, the antropological analysis proves the existence of a"Mediterranean gracile indigenous type".
It is not surprising,since Wietenberg emerged from Cotofeni(it's UsatovE,not UsatovO,on wiki).
Cotofeni represents the unification of Salcuta(SW Romania),Bubanj(Serbia),Petresti(Transylvania),all three of Vinca origin,Ariusd(from E Transylvania,of disputed origin,southern or/and eastern/Cucutenean)and Bodrogkereztur(E Hungary).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wietenberg_culture

http://archaeotek.org/past_and_future_projects/bronze_age_osteology_workshop_completed

Arban Hoti
25-11-15, 21:00
This is why you find E DNA in E-urope .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_(placename)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albani_people
http://atababa.kz/en/generation/eldeer_juz/alban
http://www.albanianhistory.net/en/texts1000-1799/AH1000.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnauts
The Sea Peoples in the Bible - Page 47
https://books.google.com/books?id=M-5HBlbJ-OYC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=arbion+mount+arbion+arbis&source=bl&ots=g5bhTcbao5&sig=-Z4TQkGn_0ZoVMHZBfIuESdVm_Y&hl=en&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIos_f2uGcyQIVyFsUCh3WDwve#v=on epage&q=arbion%20mount%20arbion%20arbis&f=false
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba
http://www.thefullwiki.org/Boyar_(caste)
http://boyars.weebly.com/boyar-history-celtic-tribes-of-eurasia-and-scotland.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_principalities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_nobility
https://youtu.be/c0mMTwLn3mA
https://youtu.be/M99ze151HvA




Arms, and the man I sing, who, forc'd by fate,
And haughty Juno's unrelenting hate,
Expell'd and exil'd, left the Trojan shore.
Long labors, both by sea and land, he bore,
And in the doubtful war, before he won
The Latian realm, and built the destin'd town;
His banish'd gods restor'd to rites divine,
And settled sure succession in his line,
From whence the race of Alban fathers come
And the long glories of majestic Rome.(Virgil)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano_Laziale


alb alp alph alv arv means ARB


Ballkan


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albocense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_Iulia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_County
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beceni
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbanasi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbanasi,_Bulgaria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbana%C5%A1ka,_Trebinje




France


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Mythological_origins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troyes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arverni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
At means fATher Ar is our name .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallia_Narbonensis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbon,_Haute-Garonne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbois
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbonne
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbanats
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albias
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plateau_d%27Albion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albon,_Dr%C3%B4me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert,_Somme
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba-la-Romaine
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alban_(Tarn)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albas,_Lot


italy


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba,_Piedmont
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albori_(Vietri_sul_Mare)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba,_Friuli-Venezia_Giulia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albenga
https://lij.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbenga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_Fucens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liri


Britain


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_principalities#List_of_Albanian_principal ities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotate_of_Angelokastron_and_Lepanto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutus_of_Troy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba


Swiss


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbon
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbaz


Spain


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spani_family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arboleas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeca
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbo,_Pontevedra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Alba
Álvarez de Toledo Alv means Arb.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba,_Aragon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albayz%C3%ADn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albaida,_Valencia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canillas_de_Albaida
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albond%C3%B3n


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alban_Arthan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Alb%C3%A1n


nabla-alban
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabla_symbol

Arban Hoti
25-11-15, 21:17
Fill Fillim means the beginning , the English word 'files' means to find out where it started , the word Fill comes from Fije Fi (ee) it means Fiber , so when you want to Find the beginning you have to do that step by step , you must find the thread yarn wire string and than fiber by fiber you get to the truth File , those Arba who went to the Levant were called Nephilim ,Ne means 'we' in Arb and philim means beginning = Philistine F-I-L Carbon old We Ar the beginning.