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View Full Version : Should the EU create one European Army?



Lacroix
26-03-15, 16:04
In my opinion the EU should try to create one European army. Together Europe would probably be the owner of the largest and most advanced army in the world. Now armies have their own procedures, languages, hierachie and tactics. Unifying all these armies and training them all to use the same procedures, languages, hierachie and tactics would greatly increase their effectivness in a mission. Now, when for example both Dutch and French soldiers are sent to Mali there might be difficulties understanding each other, not only because of their languages but also because a french "division" might mean something else, or consist of more or less men than a Dutch one.

The UK recently adopted a new camo pattern, the Netherlands is still researching one and many other countries might have ambitions to create a new camo pattern aswell. Every country is spending millions on this research, where as there would be one European army this research would only have to happen once.

Let me know what you think.

Aberdeen
26-03-15, 22:47
So, who would be the commander in chief of such an army, a French general or a German general? Or should we wait until Turkey is a member of the EU and put a Turk in charge? (What do you Greeks think of that idea?) Or should the EU army be led by a bureaucrat from Brussels?

mihaitzateo
26-03-15, 22:53
EU with Norway should make a common army.
And they should send a part this army to protect Ukraine,from the rebels in the East of Ukraine,Putin's mercenaries so they do not grab more land.
Putin should understand that he will not get even a 1 meter of land more.
Europe fought against Tatar and Mongol invasions,now Putin's Russia is just another Tatar-Mongol empire and it should not be allowed to extend more.

Maleth
27-03-15, 00:11
You make a good point, however I believe it is too early to think or consider an EU army for the simple reason that most EU citizens will not associate comfortably with such a concept. This is also in a time when the trend is that some EU countries have movements with regional aspirations to split.

However since the creation of the EU there has already been positive progress as it seems that there has been much cooperation in sharing of information and joint missions (example anti piracy mission in Somalia and I am sure there were more). This is also true within the police systems of each country. The same cooperation has been seen example in the evacuation of EU nationals in Libya with certain EU countries taking the lead in the name of all EU citizens. I have also noticed that there is more acceptance to communicate in English then say in 1973 which can make things easier, besides the fact that multilingualism seems to be also on the rise.

The younger generation might be open to a new perspective in regards to a European concept. However there is still a sizable chunk of Europeans who were brought up in a different Europe who still carry different types of memories and can never relate to the opportunities that the younger generations enjoy.

mihaitzateo
27-03-15, 00:29
You make a good point, however I believe it is too early to think or consider an EU army for the simple reason that most EU citizens will not associate comfortably with such a concept. This is also in a time when the trend is that some EU countries have movements with regional aspirations to split.

However since the creation of the EU there has already been positive progress as it seems that there has been much cooperation in sharing of information and joint missions (example anti piracy mission in Somalia and I am sure there were more). This is also true within the police systems of each country. The same cooperation has been seen example in the evacuation of EU nationals in Libya with certain EU countries taking the lead in the name of all EU citizens. I have also noticed that there is more acceptance to communicate in English then say in 1973 which can make things easier, besides the fact that multilingualism seems to be also on the rise.

The younger generation might be open to a new perspective in regards to a European concept. However there is still a sizable chunk of Europeans who were brought up in a different Europe who still carry different types of memories and can never relate to the opportunities that the younger generations enjoy.
Europeans not comfortably with such a concept?
Lol,go read the history of WW2.
France was not defeated by Nazi Germany,it was a clear non-combat.
If the Yankees and Brits would have not supported the new Tatar-Mongol Empire,the New Golden Horde,ex-USSR,actually Russia,they would have been speaking German now.
Putin really is scared by such a perspective.
if EU forms a common army and go help Ukraine take back Eastern Ukraine,Putin will just accept it,cause he would not have what to do otherwise.
We are living in the 4th Reich,the name of France come from Franks.
Who cares about what most Great Britain and US people thinks about a common EU army,I am pretty sure most French people would be very enchanted by such a perspective.
France can contribute with their Dassault Rafale airplanes to such a common EU army which airplanes are rumored to be best fighter jets in the world.Germany got best tanks,so already,we got supremacy in air and on the land.
Russia could barely beat Germany in the past,with great help from UK and US,now if France,Germany,Norway,Sweden,Denmark,Finland,Italy ,Spain,Poland and rest of EU got allied,Putin do not stand a chance.I am not saying to go attack Russia,I am just saying to make this common army,to stop Putin aggressive extension towards West.
He already took Crimea and a part of Eastern Ukraine,what you want ,to watch how US would let Putin take even more land?

Maleth
27-03-15, 00:51
I am pretty sure most French people would be very enchanted by such a perspective.

I sincerely very much doubt that. Armies and wars are very much the last option. The EU will not benefit anything in all out confrontation with Russia, the repercussions might even be much more devastating compared to the unfortunate realities we see today. Escalation will never be a priority but all diplomatic efforts are much more preferred. History has already thought a good number of lessons in this regards.

Yetos
27-03-15, 00:57
A EUropean common army to support who?
are we speaking about a defensive?
or an offensive European army?

first we must ask this,

second,
thiw army will protect the policy of who?
for example,
France corporations might have profit in oil in a land, lets say A
Germany might have profit from metal corporations in a state called B
and G Britain has profit in a land called C by selling goods
while Spains industry needs consuming materials from a land D,
and lets say land B attacks land A, block the way to land D,
which needs an exit by land C but it is not Given,

who this European will support?

A good example,
Iraq of Sandam,
France was a country that lost 000 000 of E from commerce of medicine,
yet I did not say Sandam was a good person,
but how will this EU army act in such case?
will this army consider France profits with Sandam's Iraq commerce?
or will obey 'majority' no matter one or few members earn from this?
and if this is a deutsch profit? a spains profit? etc etc,

for example if in Mexico a mad dictator rise, and gives extra profits to local Volkwagen, will this Army attack?
or obey a Veto from Deutschland?
or in modern Syria Iraq Kurdistan?
will this Army campaign to prevail or to bring order?
or will not due to commerce treaty with Turkey or Iran for example?
and if travel there will support the profit of who?
of 1-2 big EU powers or of All?

it is easy to make a defensive army,
or to promote FRONTEX as an army,
but an offensive army?

Lacroix
27-03-15, 17:41
as a reaction to Yetos:

I believe any army should be a defensive army. The European army would be used to protect human rights and EU allies. Going to war because some part of the EU can make profit of it is just simply wrong. Furthermore, no country in the EU acts alone nowadays. France had interests in Mali. Fighting the Touareg rebbels. They sent in a large force supported by Dutch and Swedish soldiers. There might have been more nationalities but I'm not sure. If an European army would have excisted the problems in Mali would have been shown to the European commission, the parliament and counsils and they would have decided whether to send in troops or not.

Also, an army does not have one general. It has many. In the united states the president is the highest commander of the armed forces. In the EU this would be a president too or maybe even the commission. Generals would come from all over the EU, not just one country.

I also agree with Maleth. At this point many people are not ready. However I do think this won't take very long. There might still be diferences within Europe but we all want the same things regarding foreign policy. An army is a tool to set a foreign policy. Even the regions who want more independence are mostly talking about more financial independence, not a Catalan or Scottish army. I also think the creation of such regional could be very dangereous.

Yetos
27-03-15, 21:46
@ La Croix

As long as Big and Multinational corporations which have economical 'bill' bigger than many EU states, are taxated in countries, and not in EU as a whole
I do not support such an idea,
I think it is a trap, like Fiscal Union to reduce the 'national armies' and to produce 'corporational armies'
When all big corporations are taxated in all EU countries, no matter which country declare as base,
then it is possible

Piro Ilir
05-04-15, 13:47
Absolutely yes. As soon as possible. EU need to decide if they will be a real state. They need a centralized army and a centralized government. They need to imitate the USA in some stuff. If some of the coutrys of UE don't admit this, (like Greece) let them go out of UE . UE need to really unified

Pax Augusta
06-05-15, 18:24
Yes, of course.

Boreas
06-05-15, 20:11
One Europe army will just make the EU one polar of the world. That's it. Sorry but I am more humanistic then that; one world, one nation, one army

pock9999
29-07-15, 23:49
In my opinion the EU should try to create one European army. Together Europe would probably be the owner of the largest and most advanced army in the world. Now armies have their own procedures, languages, hierachie and tactics. Unifying all these armies and training them all to use the same procedures, languages, hierachie and tactics would greatly increase their effectivness in a mission. Now, when for example both Dutch and French soldiers are sent to Mali there might be difficulties understanding each other, not only because of their languages but also because a french "division" might mean something else, or consist of more or less men than a Dutch one.

The UK recently adopted a new camo pattern, the Netherlands is still researching one and many other countries might have ambitions to create a new camo pattern aswell. Every country is spending millions on this research, where as there would be one European army this research would only have to happen once.

Let me know what you think.
Lacroix

No self respecting British solider would ever fight for the EU or take orders from someone from a different country.We take our oath to serve Queen & Country and nobody else,definitely not the bloody EU

pock9999
29-07-15, 23:50
EU with Norway should make a common army.
And they should send a part this army to protect Ukraine,from the rebels in the East of Ukraine,Putin's mercenaries so they do not grab more land.
Putin should understand that he will not get even a 1 meter of land more.
Europe fought against Tatar and Mongol invasions,now Putin's Russia is just another Tatar-Mongol empire and it should not be allowed to extend more.
Britain would never fight for the EU or Ukraine

pock9999
29-07-15, 23:56
Europeans not comfortably with such a concept?
Lol,go read the history of WW2.
France was not defeated by Nazi Germany,it was a clear non-combat.
If the Yankees and Brits would have not supported the new Tatar-Mongol Empire,the New Golden Horde,ex-USSR,actually Russia,they would have been speaking German now.
Putin really is scared by such a perspective.
if EU forms a common army and go help Ukraine take back Eastern Ukraine,Putin will just accept it,cause he would not have what to do otherwise.
We are living in the 4th Reich,the name of France come from Franks.
Who cares about what most Great Britain and US people thinks about a common EU army,I am pretty sure most French people would be very enchanted by such a perspective.
France can contribute with their Dassault Rafale airplanes to such a common EU army which airplanes are rumored to be best fighter jets in the world.Germany got best tanks,so already,we got supremacy in air and on the land.
Russia could barely beat Germany in the past,with great help from UK and US,now if France,Germany,Norway,Sweden,Denmark,Finland,Italy ,Spain,Poland and rest of EU got allied,Putin do not stand a chance.I am not saying to go attack Russia,I am just saying to make this common army,to stop Putin aggressive extension towards West.
He already took Crimea and a part of Eastern Ukraine,what you want ,to watch how US would let Putin take even more land?
Hahaha you are an idiot and talk rubbish I doubt you French as you would want your army run by Merkel .well suppose you've been beat by the Germans twice so maybe you would

pock9999
30-07-15, 00:00
as a reaction to Yetos:

I believe any army should be a defensive army. The European army would be used to protect human rights and EU allies. Going to war because some part of the EU can make profit of it is just simply wrong. Furthermore, no country in the EU acts alone nowadays. France had interests in Mali. Fighting the Touareg rebbels. They sent in a large force supported by Dutch and Swedish soldiers. There might have been more nationalities but I'm not sure. If an European army would have excisted the problems in Mali would have been shown to the European commission, the parliament and counsils and they would have decided whether to send in troops or not.

Also, an army does not have one general. It has many. In the united states the president is the highest commander of the armed forces. In the EU this would be a president too or maybe even the commission. Generals would come from all over the EU, not just one country.

I also agree with Maleth. At this point many people are not ready. However I do think this won't take very long. There might still be diferences within Europe but we all want the same things regarding foreign policy. An army is a tool to set a foreign policy. Even the regions who want more independence are mostly talking about more financial independence, not a Catalan or Scottish army. I also think the creation of such regional could be very dangereous.
No EU moron will ever send a British military to war only our government and Queen can do this there would be civil war probably in UK if this was to happen and after Brussels would be the first city to be bombed .Death to the EU

pock9999
30-07-15, 00:01
Absolutely yes. As soon as possible. EU need to decide if they will be a real state. They need a centralized army and a centralized government. They need to imitate the USA in some stuff. If some of the coutrys of UE don't admit this, (like Greece) let them go out of UE . UE need to really unified
The British military will not be part of this