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Arame
09-04-15, 15:11
Y-chromosomal haplogroup G1 is a minor component of the overall gene pool of South-West and Central Asia but reaches up to 80% frequency in some populations scattered within this area. We identified five branches, all with high geographical specificity: G1-L1323 in Kazakhs, the closely related G1-GG1 in Mongols, G1-GG265 in Armenians and its distant brother clade G1-GG162 in Bashkirs, and G1-GG362 in West Indians. The haplotype diversity, which decreased from West Iran to Central Asia, allows us to hypothesize that this rare haplogroup could have been carried by the expansion of Iranic speakers northwards to the Eurasian steppe and via founder effects became a predominant genetic component of some populations, including the Argyn tribe of the Kazakhs.

The trees reveal three principal clusters: Kazakh, Armenian and Bashkir, with 100% specificity of the cluster members to the corresponding populations. The Armenian and Bashkir clusters have a shared ancestor on the tree
...

The genetic dates suggest that all principal branches already existed when this migration started. Indeed, even the last split into the Bashkir and Armenian clusters is dated back to 8000 YBP (S5 Table), while the Armenian linguistic branch separated around 4600 YBP and Indo-Iranian languages separated around 4200 YBP
...

When Turkic languages replaced Iranic ones in the steppes (perhaps starting from the middle of the 1st millennium AD) the G1-carriers were probably assimilated into expanding Turkic and then Mongolian-speaking populations.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0122968

Well the Iranian spreading is probable, but an earlier spreading before IE is also possible.
What takes my attention here. Bashkirs are high in R1b-Z2105. Armenians are high in R1b Z2103 The splite between Armenian and Bashkir G1 is 8000 BP just in those times when R1b was moving north in Caspian region.
So i assume that this G1 goes from North-West of Iran with R1b to steppes and Volga bassin.
Later movements to the east are also possible during Scythian and Persian periods .

Maciamo
09-04-15, 18:07
According to Yfull.com, G1 formed 26100 ybp and has a TMRCA of 19100 ybp. This coincides with the Last Glacial Maximum. The age is similar to haplogroups Q1a* and R1b*. Even G1a and G1b have coalescence ages of respectively 14700 ybp and 19100 ybp. That's long before the Neolithic, let alone the Bronze Age.

Arame
10-04-15, 06:51
Maciamo
I agree that G1 is very old and all these spreads could happen a in Paleolithic-Mesolithic. So I don't know why the authors concluded that it is linked to Iranian speakers.
But the split between Armenian and Bashkir clusters is at 8000BP. This is in Neolithic.
Also G1 is too rare and small to spread on its own. So my guess that it moved with R1b tribe from South after 6000BC.
Bashkir G1 has a low variance so it is a clearly a founder effect.

P.S. There are two theories about Bashkirs before turkification. One is saying that they were Scythians named Bushxk'. The othere is that there were Uralic people.

bicicleur
10-04-15, 08:20
it looks like G1 was one tribe during the ice age, probably in the Persian Gulf (which was dry land then)
after the ice age they split and spread north via the Zagros Mountains
most of them got extinct, but few were picked up by other neolithic/Indo-European tribes later

Maciamo
11-04-15, 08:19
I only had time to check the study now. Historical interpretations aside, this study provides invaluable data on a haplogroup that was until now very poorly studied. Here is the frequency map of haplogroup G1 from the study :

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g002

and diversity map of G1

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g004


What it shows is that G1 probably originated somewhere between East Anatolia and West Iran, but was later overrun by the J1, J2, R1a, R1b, particularly during the Bronze and Iron Ages.

Nowadays G1 is most common in Kazakhstan, but the Kazakh cluster is very young - only 225 years old according to Yfull.com. I seriously doubt that it is less than 10 generation old, but G1-L1323 certainly does seem to have undergone a rapid recent expansion in Kazakhstan. This study gives a mean age of 623 years for the Kazakh branch, which would correspond to a late medieval re-expansion, after the Mongols conquered Kazakhstan. Therefore Kazakh is most likely of Mongolian origin.

G1 is divided in two main branches:

1) The Kazakh-Mongol branch, which is about 3000 years old.

2) The Armenian-Bashkir branch, which is about 7000 years old.

Both of them descend from a common Neolithic G1 ancestor who lived some 8300 years ago.

This could solve the mystery of who spread the Armenian-like teal admixture to the Steppe. It could very well have been G1 farmers from Armenia or northwest Iran. Neolithic mtDNA from the Volga region included Middle Eastern haplogroups HV, N1a and W (a branch of N2), which have also been found among modern Kazakhs, Altaians, Mongols and Uyghurs (see my thread Identifying the original Indo-European mtDNA from isolated settlements (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25613-Identifying-the-original-Indo-European-mtDNA-from-isolated-settlements)).

I have a strong feeling that this all fits together. G1 men with HV, N1a1a and W women brought the Neolithic from West Asia to the steppes (e.g. Khvalynsk culture) with a migration going from the North Caucasus up the Volga and across all the Eurasian steppe until Mongolia. There may have been men belonging to Y-haplogroup T1a in addition to G1.

Most G1 and T1a lineages were eventually replaced by R1b lineages by the Bronze Age. The absorption of West Asian HV, W and N1a (+ possibly its subclade hg I) led to the formation of the PIE Yamna admixture. G1 survived only south of the Caucasus, among the Bashkirs and in Mongolia. G1-L1323 was brought back from Mongolia to Central Asia during the 13th century.

Goga
16-04-15, 15:59
A few days ago Dienekes' placed an interesting article on their site. It is about the ancient Iranic speakers and their migrations. Here is the link : http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html)

In that paper they make an interesting link between Iranic speakers and the Y-DNA haplogroup G1!

This is what has been written about it: "The haplotype diversity, which decreased from West Iran to Central Asia, allows us to hypothesize that this rare haplogroup could have been carried by the expansion of Iranic speakers northwards to the Eurasian steppe and via founder effects became a predominant genetic component of some populations, including the Argyn tribe of the Kazakhs."

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html)



http://s17.postimg.org/m8ggjmdxb/journal_pone_0122968_g001.png


There are 2 theories about where the Urheimat (Airyana Vaeja) of the Aryans was. 1 theory is that it was located in SouthCentral Asia and the other theory is that it was in West Asia, in CentralEastern Kurdistan.

I'm also sure that first ancient Iranic speakers had also lots of the Y-DNA haplogroup J2a. Just remember the so called Graeco-Aryan connection.

According to Berosus, who lived at the beginning of the 3rd century BC and who was a Hellenistic-era Chaldean writer, a priest, astronomer and historian from Babylon, the Medes conquered Babylon anterior to 2458 B.C., and that their monarchy there lasted for two hundred and twenty-four years.

Also, the Bible mentions the Medes. "The Medes were an Aryan race, hence of Japhetic stock andevidently descended from Japheth’s son Madai." (Ge 10:2) They were closely related to the Persians in race, language, and religion. As a people, the Medes do not begin to appear in Biblical history until the eighth century B.C.E., while the first mention of them in available secular records dates from the time of Assyrian King Shalmaneser III, a contemporary of King Jehu (c. 904-877B.C.E.).
The tenth chapter of Genesis also speaks of the Madai in conjunction with Gomer, Magog; and those accepting this book as history will of course not object to the date given by Berosus. They must place these Madai prior to 1500 B.C.!

"Archaeological and other evidence is viewed as indicating their presence on the Iranian Plateau from about the middle of the second millennium B.C.E. onward."

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002956 (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002956)


The Medes were legendary people themselves, but I'm also convinced that the Medes in turn were descendants of the at least equally legendary Mitanni. Mitanni were proto-Indo-Iranians and ancestros to all Iranic people!

Angela
16-04-15, 16:26
A few days ago Dienekes' placed an interesting article on their site. It is about the ancient Iranic speakers and their migrations. Here is the link : http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html)

In that paper they make an interesting link between Iranic speakers and the Y-DNA haplogroup G1!

This is what has been written about it: "The haplotype diversity, which decreased from West Iran to Central Asia, allows us to hypothesize that this rare haplogroup could have been carried by the expansion of Iranic speakers northwards to the Eurasian steppe and via founder effects became a predominant genetic component of some populations, including the Argyn tribe of the Kazakhs."

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html)



http://s17.postimg.org/m8ggjmdxb/journal_pone_0122968_g001.png


There are 2 theories about where the Urheimat (Airyana Vaeja) of the Aryans was. 1 theory is that it was located in SouthCentral Asia and the other theory is that it was in West Asia, in CentralEasternKurdistan.

I'm also sure that first ancient Iranic speakers had also lots of the Y-DNA haplogroup J2a. Just remember the so called Graeco-Aryan connection.

According to Berosus, who lived at the beginning of the 3rd century BC and who was a Hellenistic-era Chaldean writer, a priest, astronomer and historian from Babylon, the Medes conquered Babylon anterior to 2458 B.C., and that their monarchy there lasted for two hundred and twenty-four years.

Also, the Bible mentions the Medes. "The Medes were an Aryan race, hence of Japhetic stock andevidently descended from Japheth’s son Madai." (Ge 10:2) They were closely related to the Persians in race, language, and religion. As a people, the Medes do not begin to appear in Biblical history until the eighth century B.C.E., while the first mention of them in available secular records dates from the time of Assyrian King Shalmaneser III, a contemporary of King Jehu (c. 904-877B.C.E.).
The tenth chapter of Genesis also speaks of the Madai in conjunction with Gomer, Magog; and those accepting this book as history will of course not object to the date given by Berosus. They must place these Madai prior to 1500 B.C.!

"Archaeological and other evidence is viewed as indicating their presence on the Iranian Plateau from about the middle of the second millennium B.C.E. onward."

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002956 (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002956)


The Medes were legendary people themselves, but I'm also convinced that the Medes in turn were descendants of the at least equally legendary Mitanni. Mitanni were proto-Indo-Iranians and ancestros to all Iranic people!

There is already a thread on this paper, so I am moving your post to that thread.

Goga
16-04-15, 16:57
There is already a thread on this paper, so I am moving your post to that thread.Oh, thank you very much. I didn't see this topic!

Goga
16-04-15, 16:58
Oh, thank you very much. I didn't see this topic!


Just look where they do locate 'Airyana Vaeja', the URHEIMAT of the Iranic people.

http://s22.postimg.org/xvcnd8m9t/274.jpg


http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28876/28876-h/files/17328/17328-h/v8c.htm (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28876/28876-h/files/17328/17328-h/v8c.htm)


This means that the 'Hellenic Civilization' and even the Romans and the Roman Empire were Aryan and had Aryan roots, since Y-DNA haplogroup J2a migrate into Europe around that time and created Aryan civilizations in Southern Europe, since we all know that the Western Civilization is from the ancient Media (Media Magna area). After the death of Alexander the Great (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great), Media was divided into two states. Media Atropatene and Media Magna. Smaller Media Atropatene was located in Azerbaijan, while much bigger Media Magna was located in Kurdistan.


" The origin of the Medes is involved in impenetrable obscurity. They were of Aryan descent, and were a kindred people with their southerntorily shown that the Arba Lisun (Four Tongues) of ancient Chaldaea, so frequently mentioned on the ancient monuments, included an Aryan formation, thus confirming Berosus' account of an Aryan conquest of neighbours, the Persians, from whom they differed but little in race, language, institutions and religion. From the little that we know of their primitive history it appears that they were an important tribe in very early Chaldaea B.C. 2458-2234. There are other evidences of the early spread of the Median race, thus implying that they were a great nation in Western Asia long prior to the date of the Aryan, or Iranic, movements in times. The Book of Genesis mentions them Ba(5lria and adjacentregions. under the name of Madai, and Berosus states that they furnished a dynasty to remnants of a great migratory host, which issued from the mountains east of the Tigris Babylon at a period anterior to B. C. 2000.These circumstances would seem to show that the Medes were a powerful primeval race, and adlually constituted a ruling power in Western Asia as early as the twenty-third centurybefore Christ " long before Abraham north and north-west in prehistoric times, are plainly visible in such races as the Matieni of Zagros and Cappadocia, the Sauromatae (or Northern Medes) of the country between the Palus Maeotis and the Caspian migrated from Ur to Harran. "

http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/The_Unrivaled_History_of_the_World_v1_1000017366/237 (http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/The_Unrivaled_History_of_the_World_v1_1000017366/237)

Goga
16-04-15, 17:12
http://s22.postimg.org/xvcnd8m9t/274.jpg

so frequently mentioned on the ancient monuments, included an Aryan formation, thus confirming Berosus' account of an Aryan conquest of neighbours, the Persians, from whom they differed but little in race, language, institutions and religion. From the little that we know of their primitive history it appears that they were an important tribe in very early Chaldaea B.C. 2286.
What is more striking is that even 2000 years later the Kurds (Medes) and Persians are still very similar to each other. The Persians were Medes in origin who migrated into the East.
Kurds (the Medes) and Persians still share the same DNA and are still the closest people to each other in race (DNA), culture and language! Like Avestan and the language of the Medes also Kurdish is a NorthWestern Iranic language.

Goga
16-04-15, 18:47
I have a strong feeling that this all fits together. G1 men with HV, N1a1a and W women brought the Neolithic from West Asia to the steppes (e.g. Khvalynsk culture) with a migration going from the North Caucasus up the Volga and across all the Eurasian steppe until Mongolia. There may have been men belonging to Y-haplogroup T1a in addition to G1.

Most G1 and T1a lineages were eventually replaced by R1b lineages by the Bronze Age. The absorption of West Asian HV, W and N1a (+ possibly its subclade hg I) led to the formation of the PIE Yamna admixture. G1 survived only south of the Caucasus, among the Bashkirs and in Mongolia. G1-L1323 was brought back from Mongolia to Central Asia during the 13th century.
You're contradicting yourself! If mtDna HV, W and N1a predate Y-DNA haplogroup R1b in the Steppes, so if mtDna HV, W and N1a were in the Steppes first and before R1b arrived from West Asia, how is it possible that HV, W and N1a is West Asian in nature and R1b not? I mean if what you're saying is right, then native HV, W and N1a in the Steppes would be much less West Asian in nature than R1b!

Also, why is it not possible that HV, W arrived in the Yamnaya Horizon together with R1b, from Mayko and Leyla Tepe? R1b in Yamnaya was West Asian and from West Asia after all. Yamnaya was created by people from Maykop and Leyla Tepe...

pinovski
08-12-18, 03:23
...

...


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0122968

Well the Iranian spreading is probable, but an earlier spreading before IE is also possible.
What takes my attention here. Bashkirs are high in R1b-Z2105. Armenians are high in R1b Z2103 The splite between Armenian and Bashkir G1 is 8000 BP just in those times when R1b was moving north in Caspian region.
So i assume that this G1 goes from North-West of Iran with R1b to steppes and Volga bassin.
Later movements to the east are also possible during Scythian and Persian periods .



it looks like G1 was one tribe during the ice age, probably in the Persian Gulf (which was dry land then)
after the ice age they split and spread north via the Zagros Mountains
most of them got extinct, but few were picked up by other neolithic/Indo-European tribes later




You're contradicting yourself! If mtDna HV, W and N1a predate Y-DNA haplogroup R1b in the Steppes, so if mtDna HV, W and N1a were in the Steppes first and before R1b arrived from West Asia, how is it possible that HV, W and N1a is West Asian in nature and R1b not? I mean if what you're saying is right, then native HV, W and N1a in the Steppes would be much less West Asian in nature than R1b!

Also, why is it not possible that HV, W arrived in the Yamnaya Horizon together with R1b, from Mayko and Leyla Tepe? R1b in Yamnaya was West Asian and from West Asia after all. Yamnaya was created by people from Maykop and Leyla Tepe...



Hello guys, in fact i am spanish and my haplogroup is G, i found all this this very interesting.

PaganRimmer
18-04-19, 23:08
Okay guys i don't know what is going on but i came by to learn it. Basicly i am Bosnian from Serbia and i get that haplogroup(I just took y-12 and the esimates in nevgen was like %83 g1-m342 and the only match i have is g1b) . What is going on. If my ancestors belong to the iran,cacaus and kazakhstan how do they get balkans. I really confused.

Rico33
29-08-19, 23:16
I have haplogroup G1 as well. I have heard it, I didn't take it personal. I also have heard that it is from Kazakhstan.