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View Full Version : E-M81 is now thought to have originated 13,900 years ago



HQ420832
12-04-15, 23:31
We see in the last version of the yfull tree, which analysed a lot of Full E-M81 Y-chromosome, that E-M81 is now thought to have originated 13,900 years ago (and not 5,600 as it was thought before since the old study by Cruciani 2004).

So E-M81 may have entered Iberia during the Neolithic or even the Mesolithic.

See link below :

yfull.com/tree/E1b1b1b/

giuseppe rossi
13-04-15, 07:50
Not E-M81 has been found so far in the numerous mesolitich and neolitich remains from Iberia and Southern France, so it's impossible that it can be so old.

bicicleur
13-04-15, 08:20
according to YFull, E-M81 is 13900 years old, but its dispersel is only 2200 years old
this is because very little is known about the subclades of E-M81
I believe E-M81 dispersed with the cattle herders in Africa, some 8000 years ago

HQ420832
13-04-15, 08:22
Well in fact, so far only 7 or 8 samples of ancient Dna from Iberia have been tested for Y-DNA . So it is much too small.

But very likely in the next months when more samples have been tested, especially from Western iberia (Portugal, Galicia etc), they will find some E-M81...

giuseppe rossi
13-04-15, 08:35
No there are at least 10-15 ancient samples from Iberia so far. Many of whom are included in Haak et al. Paper.

HQ420832
13-04-15, 09:17
Less than 10 samples so not enough and none from western iberia especially Portugal or Galicia.

giuseppe rossi
13-04-15, 09:36
There are 10 ancient Iberian samples in the Haak et al study and other 6 samples from this study.

http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2011/11/y-haplogroups-e-v13-and-g2a-in.html?m=1

I am quite sure that there are other ones aviable.

The peak of E-M81 in Iberia is among Pasiegos of Cantabria (40%).

bicicleur
13-04-15, 12:39
There are 10 ancient Iberian samples in the Haak et al study and other 6 samples from this study.

http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2011/11/y-haplogroups-e-v13-and-g2a-in.html?m=1

I am quite sure that there are other ones aviable.

The peak of E-M81 in Iberia is among Pasiegos of Cantabria (40%).

samples of Haak are from 2 sites, Lacan 2011 is from only 1 site, only 3 sites in total

Lacan 2011 tested no snp's only STR : For the six male samples, two complete and four partial Y-STRs haplotypes were obtained
so, I'm not sure about E-V13, it may be someone related to but not actually E-V13 (e.g. E-V22)

giuseppe rossi
13-04-15, 14:13
Samples of Haak et al are from three sites, not two.

Angela
13-04-15, 16:32
The point is that we don't have any ancient E-M81 yet. All we have are modern distributions which as we have seen over and over again can be very misleading. If we find some Neolithic remains from Iberia bearing it that will mean that it was present at least by then, but it won't prove that more didn't come later. These kinds of distinctions would require much more detailed subclade resolution as well as lots more ancient Dna.