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suebiking
20-04-15, 23:23
Don't take me wrong I am very proud of my country and I respect the diversity there is but still I want to state that Portugal mainly in the north and interior is a very mountanous country and there is a lot of diversity from one population to another and I don't bother but when I hear someone even on youtube(and I know that the sourse is a sh**y one ) it also makes me sad.When most of my portuguese friends are very white and none has brown eyes.
I wonder that if autosomal dna defines appearence then I am from the very north of portugal next to galicia and I am very white like a german and I have green eyes, the same with almost all of my family from paternal and maternal sides, does that mean anything about my autosomal dna, because I have seen autosomal dna figures for portugal and it has a lot of non-european dna and I think I don't identify with that.
I know I divagate a little but straight to the point:me and my friends autosomal dna, since it defines appearence,how could it(ours autosomal dna) be?

Greying Wanderer
20-04-15, 23:38
The national numbers are an average. The details can vary from valley to valley.

Angela
21-04-15, 00:11
Please don't post whole paragraphs in huge bold type. It's the equivalent of shouting in someone's face. We can read.

suebiking
22-04-15, 19:02
ok will not do it next time sorry

MOESAN
30-04-15, 18:57
if you mix a lot of Swedes with big percentages of light pigmented persons with a few subsaharians you will find after some strange aDNA among their descendants, while the most of them will keep on fair pigmented as a whole even if a bit less than before - so the feeling of being fair enough so without any "exotic" mixture is a mistake -
I agree with an other poster saying aDNA could vary (sometimes, not always) from place to place - spite the crossings in big towns, the countryside populations show almost all of them slight differences of History from place to close place (sorry for my "exotic" english)

Mars
30-04-15, 19:47
I wonder that if autosomal dna defines appearence then I am from the very north of portugal next to galicia and I am very white like a german and I have green eyes, the same with almost all of my family from paternal and maternal sides, does that mean anything about my autosomal dna, because I have seen autosomal dna figures for portugal and it has a lot of non-european dna and I think I don't identify with that.

Excuse me man for editing your text ;-) It depends on many possible factors, it's hard to say. Your autosomal dna could possibly be very similar to other people of Portugal, with different percentages than the average, maybe pushing more northwards than the standard portuguese for an old input most people there lack, but it's just an hypotesis, I'm no genetist. Maybe some traits could be recessive: Recessive alleles can be present in a population at very high frequency. Consider eye color. Eye color is influenced mainly by two genes, with smaller contributions from several others. People with light eyes tend to carry recessive alleles of the major genes; people with dark eyes tend to carry dominant alleles. In Scandinavia, most people have light eyes—the recessive alleles of these genes are much more common here than the dominant ones. http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/inheritance/patterns/
P.S. "white like a german" is a pretty weird statement IMHO...what germans? they vary a lot, and "white" is a largely abused term, IMHO).

Angela
30-04-15, 19:52
Let me put it this way: the pictures below are of people whose ancestors have lived in the same village for hundreds and hundreds of years. If their autosomal dna were tested, it would be generally very similar, but there is definitely variety in terms of pigmentation and facial structure and body structure.
http://www.medievalis.org/wp-content/gallery/cerreto-laghi/img_5586.jpg
http://www.lanazione.it/polopoly_fs/1.143975.1408803044%21/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_800/image.jpg


http://www.musicacittadina.it/data/fotografie/614-medievalis2010-18.JPG
http://www.medievalis.org/wp-content/uploads/pietro2.jpg
http://www.lanazione.it/polopoly_fs/1.143974.1408803044%21/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_800/image.jpg

Fire Haired14
01-05-15, 00:21
I wonder that if autosomal dna defines appearence then I am from the very north of portugal next to galicia and I am very white like a german and I have green eyes, the same with almost all of my family from paternal and maternal sides, does that mean anything about my autosomal dna, because I have seen autosomal dna figures for portugal and it has a lot of non-european dna and I think I don't identify with that.

There's a hair-eye-skin color predictor I know of called Hirisplex. They only have around 24 markers out of 100,000s in autosomal DNA, and can fairly accurately predict all three traits. Markers in autosomal DNA that determine pigmentation(color) are very few. Pigmentation doesn't define your genetics. It's just some pigmentation traits are more typical for some pops.

You're probably typical for your region. Different pigmentation won't change that. I guess it's possible you're from a genetic isolate. Only a DNA test can confirm this.

There's autosomal DNA from ~70 ancient people ranging in ages from 8,000-3,000 years old from Spain, Germany, Italy, Hungary, Sweden, and Russia. What the data suggests is that the "European" traits you're describing became popular in the last 5,000 years(they had pretty much always existed, but were rare) only in North and East Europe. 4,000YBP North Euros were mostly brown eyed and a decent amount had markers for dark skin, non-existent nowadays. Iberia never looked like North Europe.

MOESAN
01-05-15, 12:44
Let me put it this way: the pictures below are of people whose ancestors have lived in the same village for hundreds and hundreds of years. If their autosomal dna were tested, it would be generally very similar, but there is definitely variety in terms of pigmentation and facial structure and body structure.
http://www.medievalis.org/wp-content/gallery/cerreto-laghi/img_5586.jpg
http://www.lanazione.it/polopoly_fs/1.143975.1408803044%21/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_800/image.jpg


http://www.musicacittadina.it/data/fotografie/614-medievalis2010-18.JPG
http://www.medievalis.org/wp-content/uploads/pietro2.jpg
http://www.lanazione.it/polopoly_fs/1.143974.1408803044%21/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_800/image.jpg

OK ANgela, it is the commonest situation in Europe-
but I imagine the misinterpretation that some statements like that (correct ones, by the way) can induce among profane people:
"so, the phenotypes have almost nothing to do with genetics, and external aspect is without meaning?"

the aDNA proximity shared by people of the same family and people from the same stable regions does not signify they have ALL THE SAME GENES - it means they have 'grosso modo' the same percentages of genes coming from the same mix of ancestral populations: in a simplistic way I could say: if I mix a population of a blue eyes big nose dominant type with a population of brown eyes little noses dominent type I can have descendants with green eyes middle noses, blue eyes small noses and brown eyes big noses and others combinations yet; sure the proportions will not be the same according to the proportions of ancestors of the 2 components - as a whole in a stable population the descendants will share within their group almost the same proportion of diverse genes inherited from the "blue-eyes-big-noses" and from the "brown-eyes-small-noese" populations ('same' here is not 'equal', as I say above) -
so the study of physical traits is not a game for out-of-date profanes -
reading some post on Anthrogenica, I red yesterday (yestereen for our Scots fellows) that the famous Llanidloes region (Montgomeryshire in old times) , where were found more Y-I1 and other "germanic" haplos, and where were found more blond hairs than in surroundings, was populated under Tudor's reign by English soldiers, traders, artisans, lawmen in the 1572-1580's. I can spare my tentative of explanation by a hotspot of Saxons or Angles soldiers about the 500-600's but it proves phenotypes and haplo's and aDNA have some links one together in a short period of History (the late surveys about British people and aDNA put these Welsh borders in a subgroup a bit different from the majority of Englishmen, but even more different from the bulk of Welshmen...
So Angela my post is not to disprove yours but to make sure it would not be misunderstood by someones. Have a good day

MOESAN
01-05-15, 12:54
[QUOTE=Fire Haired14;456171]

Pigmentation doesn't define your genetics. It's just some pigmentation traits are more typical for some pops.

pigmentation IS genetics, but only a very small small part - just to precise the process is the same as for other traits, external or internal, and fonctional (a quantitative question, not a qualitative one). concerning far North HGé it seems a lot had LIGHT pigmentation (but with hairs form close to some Asiatic "mongoloid" condition - I red that not too long ago
that said I agree with your post (Okay, here I split hairs a bit: "I castrate lice" we say in breton or "**** the flies" in french.