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Yetos
22-04-15, 00:02
the official organisation of EU for 'clean boarders' is FRONTEX

FRONTEX headquarters are in Warsaw Poland
link to the organisation is below

http://frontex.europa.eu/about-frontex/organisation/structure/

but the main responsible are each country fronter line quards, police, and army navy coastguard.

generally the numbers given by each country and the ones given by FRONTEX had some differences

but it is common sence in All EU countries, FRONTEX and United Nation Organization that the last 5 years the immigration is reaching terrible raise

so by the numbers I Have found the raise is 250% till now from 2011 with a possibilty to reach 300%
and for some countries is reaching above 10% of the population in 5 years,

in Italy and Greece is the highest entrance, and 3rd is Spain,

Generally they came by boat,
they carry their pappers until sinking,
they phone the coastguard,
they drop the pappers and sink the boat when they see the coastguard ship,
sometimes like in island of Rodos they drive the boat to the rocks, nomatter the coastguard is nearby,

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/gnomes/article3422187.ece/BINARY/w660/rodos9.jpg


http://news247.gr/eidiseis/gnomes/article3422186.ece/BINARY/w660/rodos8.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=32&v=idoQ-3_mBmI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17bSwjZrdi4



from March to October every day 80-200 illegal immigrants enter such only in Greece, while in Italy estimated x3 x4 the numbers
but this year show a huge raise of 250%

according the numbers given by Greek Goverment (Front Police and Ministry of secure) from 2010 more than 850 000 enter illegal
and in Italy more than 4 000 000
Greek goverment send back to their countries, with a EU program more than 80 000

According Frontex in Greece enter only in January and February
Sorry I can copy or enter, it exceeds the capacity allowed
so I give Link

http://frontex.europa.eu/assets/Images_News/Illegal_border_crossing_routes_February__2015.pdf

(http://frontex.europa.eu/assets/Images_News/Illegal_border_crossing_routes_February__2015.pdf)

Maleth
22-04-15, 11:09
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150420/local/eu-summit-on-thursday-muscat-renzi-agree-on-need-to-stop-people.564751

Hauteville
22-04-15, 11:19
So, illegal immigrants arrived in Greece and Malta and not only in Italy?because some days it arrived around 1000 peoples.

Maleth
22-04-15, 11:34
So, illegal immigrants arrived in Greece and Malta and not only in Italy?because some days it arrived around 1000 peoples.

and much more to come yet. We just had the first days of calm weather. Every 1000 applications processed in Malta with a population of approx 400,000 is equivalent to 150,000 arriving in Italy (Lampedusa and Sicily) (population wise)

Angela
22-04-15, 17:06
The most appalling report is the one that the Muslim inhabitants of one of these boats threw some people overboard because they were saying Christian prayers.
At least the Italian authorities arrested them for hate crimes)and I hope, murder), but Matteo Renzi, in a display of cowardice, refused to call it what it is, and Obama, as usual, is missing in action.

There is a holocaust going on in the Muslim world and no one is doing anything about it. This is what shouldn't be imported into Europe.

Maleth
22-04-15, 18:17
The most appalling report is the one that the Muslim inhabitants of one of these boats threw some people overboard because they were saying Christian prayers.
At least the Italian authorities arrested them for hate crimes)and I hope, murder), but Matteo Renzi, in a display of cowardice, refused to call it what it is, and Obama, as usual, is missing in action.

There is a holocaust going on in the Muslim world and no one is doing anything about it. This is what shouldn't be imported into Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3044584/Pray-Allah-ll-throw-overboard-Muslims-ordered-Christians-punctured-dinghy-African-migrants-sank-Mediterranean.html

Yetos
22-04-15, 20:38
Interesting are the prices of the 'slave-merchants'

so a Syrrian to cross Turkey pays 1500-2000 E
an Iraqi Kurd about 500
and a Pakistan/Afganistan about 2000-2500E

Just to pass the Aegean Boarders and enter Greece (a distance about 1-10km) the price is 1500-2000 E to buy the ticket to the 'sinking boat'
while from Greece to Italy is 5000 E
and from Greece to Albania to Croatia or Italy is only 150-250 E, cause nobody prefers this way, cause he will be again out of EU.

The amazing story was last year, a fishing boat that depart from Antalya Turkey was found lost East of Crete,
when the coasthuard reach them they raise Italian flag, and start talking in Italian ατ loudspeaker,
when they realize that they were in Greece after 3 days trip, they were so disapointed,
that said the whole story with names and adresses of 'slave-merchants'.


Anyway, th European south has changed enough the last 5 years,
and will be different if EU id cards given,
in italy is 8% and in Greece is 10%, of pop[ulation in 5 years!!!!
Malta had that sock before.

Sile
22-04-15, 21:16
Interesting are the prices of the 'slave-merchants'

so a Syrrian to cross Turkey pays 1500-2000 E
an Iraqi Kurd about 500
and a Pakistan/Afganistan about 2000-2500E

Just to pass the Aegean Boarders and enter Greece (a distance about 1-10km) the price is 1500-2000 E to buy the ticket to the 'sinking boat'
while from Greece to Italy is 5000 E
and from Greece to Albania to Croatia or Italy is only 150-250 E, cause nobody prefers this way, cause he will be again out of EU.

The amazing story was last year, a fishing boat that depart from Antalya Turkey was found lost East of Crete,
when the coasthuard reach them they raise Italian flag, and start talking in Italian ατ loudspeaker,
when they realize that they were in Greece after 3 days trip, they were so disapointed,
that said the whole story with names and adresses of 'slave-merchants'.


Anyway, th European south has changed enough the last 5 years,
and will be different if EU id cards given,
in italy is 8% and in Greece is 10%, of pop[ulation in 5 years!!!!
Malta had that sock before.

put them on a train and send them to germany and britain, if they fail to take them, then tell them to not get involved in southern european national affairs .........you cannot have your cake and eat it as well is the old saying.

Yetos
22-04-15, 22:52
put them on a train and send them to germany and britain, if they fail to take them, then tell them to not get involved in southern european national affairs .........you cannot have your cake and eat it as well is the old saying.

It is a solution but
This cannot be done,
After Soengen and Maastricht (however is wrtten, I always forgot) the immigrants get marks photo, fingers etc,
so if they catch them in Germany or in Britain, and they are marked, they return back to the entrance country,
their only hope is to take asylum pappers or white/green card from the other country to travel away, this can take years, even 10 years,
there are more than 20 000 babys born in Greece, by illegal immigrants, with no EU ID card, waiting who knows what,

it is a strange situation


seems like Lapedoussa island and Agean islands are about to become like Ellis island of early 90's in US

Hauteville
22-04-15, 23:06
Today: 540 in Salerno, 450 in Augusta
http://www.ilmessaggero.it/PRIMOPIANO/CRONACA/migranti_libia_somali_eritrei_salerno_sicilia/notizie/1312522.shtml

bicicleur
22-04-15, 23:11
put them on a train and send them to germany and britain, if they fail to take them, then tell them to not get involved in southern european national affairs .........you cannot have your cake and eat it as well is the old saying.

send them back to the African shores where they came from and put that story in the news
the whole market for this traffic will crumble

it's a huge business, last year some 170.000 crossed the meditarranean and some 3.500 drowned
this year, business is booming ..

Maleth
22-04-15, 23:25
send them back to the African shores where they came from and put that story in the news
the whole market for this traffic will crumble

it's a huge business, last year some 170.000 crossed the meditarranean and some 3.500 drowned
this year, business is booming ..

From 2013!

"The European Court of Human Rights, which stopped Malta's not-so-generous prime minister, Joseph Muscat, from flying them back to Libya after claiming the island could not cope with more illegal immigrants"

Strasbourg's judges backed claims by Maltese human rights groups and EU commissioners that Mr Muscat was violating EU law by not allowing them to make asylum claims first, and that the move was an illegal "push-back".


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/malta/10192458/EU-immigration-Malta-is-the-smallest-state-and-we-are-carrying-a-burden-that-is-much-bigger-than-any-other-country.html

But Brussels says its a tiny problem and the Pope says we should open our houses to welcome them, and yet no one questions the criminals activity to traffic these peoples. Where is the money going to? The perfect trojan horse. Sleep Europe sleep you will wake up to a nightmare

Vallicanus
24-04-15, 09:16
From 2013!

"The European Court of Human Rights, which stopped Malta's not-so-generous prime minister, Joseph Muscat, from flying them back to Libya after claiming the island could not cope with more illegal immigrants"

Strasbourg's judges backed claims by Maltese human rights groups and EU commissioners that Mr Muscat was violating EU law by not allowing them to make asylum claims first, and that the move was an illegal "push-back".


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/malta/10192458/EU-immigration-Malta-is-the-smallest-state-and-we-are-carrying-a-burden-that-is-much-bigger-than-any-other-country.html

But Brussels says its a tiny problem and the Pope says we should open our houses to welcome them, and yet no one questions the criminals activity to traffic these peoples. Where is the money going to? The perfect trojan horse. Sleep Europe sleep you will wake up to a nightmare

Send a few thousand to live in the Vatican then.

bicicleur
24-04-15, 09:50
if it's against the law to send them back this law should be abolished
maybe we should let them all drown, is there any law that says we should rescue them if they ship themselves on unseaworthy vessels ?

Maleth
24-04-15, 10:33
if it's against the law to send them back this law should be abolished
maybe we should let them all drown, is there any law that says we should rescue them if they ship themselves on unseaworthy vessels ?

My question is everybody talks about human rights which is fine. I think help and assistance should be be given to genuine cases who are genuine desperate until things improve in their own countries and be sent back, but its not always the case and no one would admit it. When will stability happen? there is a lase affair situation where the impression is that things will settle on their own. My fear is that no matter how much bad it might sound there is a whole lot of abuse in the whole issue.

*) What has happened to all the aid being given to Africa from the EU especially Somalia and Eritrea in all these years?. Don't anyone monitor and report any kind of progress after all these years? Having freedom in and generate an economy and education system in their own country isn't also a human right? Why the numbers are increasing? we now have ships not boats with fleeing migrants.

*) why the religious fanatics Al shebab who are causing most of the mayhem in East Africa are not tackled seriously with logistics and support to the people who are terrorized by these people? and after all these years we still repeat the same old rants. Same with other religious fanatics in other parts of Africa including now ISIS in Libya.

Isn't enough enough?

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150423/local/eu-in-u-turn-on-migrant-rescues.565268

John Doe
24-04-15, 12:29
Send a few thousand to live in the Vatican then.

LOL, the Vatican is basically another neighborhood of Rome, calling it a country is ridiculous to be quite frank. Sure, I mean, it has all the aspects of a country, almost all of them i.e diplomats, government, official language etc, but it wasn't always the case.

Angela
24-04-15, 14:29
if it's against the law to send them back this law should be abolished
maybe we should let them all drown, is there any law that says we should rescue them if they ship themselves on unseaworthy vessels ?

No, there's only a little thing called humanity and morality.

bicicleur
24-04-15, 14:34
My question is everybody talks about human rights which is fine. I think help and assistance should be be given to genuine cases who are genuine desperate until things improve in their own countries and be sent back, but its not always the case and no one would admit it. When will stability happen? there is a lase affair situation where the impression is that things will settle on their own. My fear is that no matter how much bad it might sound there is a whole lot of abuse in the whole issue.

*) What has happened to all the aid being given to Africa from the EU especially Somalia and Eritrea in all these years?. Don't anyone monitor and report any kind of progress after all these years? Having freedom in and generate an economy and education system in their own country isn't also a human right? Why the numbers are increasing? we now have ships not boats with fleeing migrants.

*) why the religious fanatics Al shebab who are causing most of the mayhem in East Africa are not tackled seriously with logistics and support to the people who are terrorized by these people? and after all these years we still repeat the same old rants. Same with other religious fanatics in other parts of Africa including now ISIS in Libya.

Isn't enough enough?

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150423/local/eu-in-u-turn-on-migrant-rescues.565268

all these organisations like human rights watch or the united nations etc. they talk and complain alot but they don't bring any solution any nearer ; they only complicate mathers ; i guess for many it is just a full-time very well-paid job
in the mean time criminal organisations make a lot of many with people who are in deep shit

Vallicanus
24-04-15, 14:51
We are not our brother's (or
sister's) keeper.

25 years ago the peoples of Eastern Europe threw off Communist oppression.

Why can't Subsaharan Africans not throw off their own political oppressors?

Maleth
24-04-15, 14:59
all these organisations like human rights watch or the united nations etc. they talk and complain alot but they don't bring any solution any nearer ; they only complicate mathers ; i guess for many it is just a full-time very well-paid job
in the mean time criminal organisations make a lot of many with people who are in deep shit

Exactly and they hardly ever mention countries like Saudi Arabia multi rich state and other rich countries (untouchables even by the USA by the way) who are much closer to East Africa where these migrants do not have to make perilous Journeys through the largest desert in the world (many die crossing it and we never hear of them) cross into an unstable country like Libya and get on non sea worthy boats and ships, then they cry out how bad Europe is. But you know these people have a human right to remain pure and homogeneous, and no one should be offended if not allowed to build a church..... but Europe is the racist one!! :banghead:

Maleth
24-04-15, 15:10
We are not our brother's (or
sister's) keeper.

25 years ago the peoples of Eastern Europe threw off Communist oppression.

Why can't Subsaharan Africans not throw off their own political oppressors?

Its mostly Somalia and Eritrea but these two countries should be at par with the rest. Even Kenya has an issue with Somali Refugies claiming over a million. With this kind of aid apart the aid from the USA and China this should not be happening.
Other countries donate individually too. I know my country does and various religious orders have built hospitals and schools in some remote areas besides all the extra funding collected during the years. Why is this happening?

https://ec.europa.eu/europeaid/funding/about-funding-and-procedures/sources-funding_en

Yetos
24-04-15, 21:43
if it's against the law to send them back this law should be abolished
maybe we should let them all drown, is there any law that says we should rescue them if they ship themselves on unseaworthy vessels ?

Yes the international laws for shipwreck, floatsam and jetsam

Yetos
24-04-15, 21:46
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/24/us-mideast-crisis-syria-un-idUSKBN0NF1MA20150424

seems like it has heard even to 'spiritual actors' and UN.

I think Europe should put a limit per year in Visas, immigration, etc, and start to create camps in these areas,

Vallicanus
25-04-15, 12:28
No, there's only a little thing called humanity and morality.

With respect, can we class illegal migration as moral?

giuseppe rossi
25-04-15, 13:12
These people have more rights to be in Europe than you, my Afro Semitic buddy.

Vallicanus
25-04-15, 16:39
These people have more rights to be in Europe than you, my Afro Semitic buddy.


I'm amazed a racist like you (Joseph Capelli on other sites) can write that!

But they ARE Africans and Semites (Syrians).

I'm European.

giuseppe rossi
25-04-15, 16:44
"I'm European"

Hahahahah

I am still laughing.

Vallicanus
25-04-15, 16:49
Are you quite sane, Rossi?

Vallicanus
25-04-15, 16:53
These people have more rights to be in Europe than you, my Afro Semitic buddy.

Enigmatic and racist?

Please explain.

Angela
25-04-15, 17:12
Consider yourselves both cautioned. Keep to the topic, leave innuendos out of it, and also refrain from further insults, or you will each get infractions.

Angela
25-04-15, 17:56
With respect, can we class illegal migration as moral?

Are you seriously going to give moral (or immoral) equivalence to poor, desperate people fleeing a war zone who break the law by trying to enter a country illegally with supposedly civilized members of the European community standing by and watching those men, women and children drown in front of their eyes when they could very easily save them?

Yetos
25-04-15, 18:10
the immorals are the traffick-ers. the slave-merchants of today,
and the 'sharks' the ones who use them either by 'black workers' either by 'black market sellers' etc etc. no need to expand that these people soon they will be easy target and victims to every European immoral and 'strange thinking'
and the warlords, religious, gangs, politicians prophets etc who earn money, or glory by just raiding unarmed, looting, enslave and sell souls,
I still remember Nigeria's 300 little girls,

population that can not be absorved, or deformed/reformed soon turn into getto populations, and become anti-social, cause hate enter among previous and newcomers.

Yetos
26-04-15, 23:22
problem is that a law needs to be in place in Europe........no papers, we send you back to where your boat came from. When we have your papers, then we proceed with your acceptance or decline for immigration. lost papers is not an excuse, neither is stolen papers etc ..............Europe is not united because it has nations, remove nations, and give power to brussels. If you do not like this, then leave the EU and make your own rules ........what are they going to do if you refuse to take in 100% illegal immigrants
Malta refuses 100% , they boat them to Italy and Greece

It is easy to say,

but tell me,
from nowhere comes a boat, and people with no pappers are on it, and 'hit' the rocks on the land

since they have no pappers? a state, with EU laws and treaties where will send back these people?
and which country will accept them? with not her own pappers?

many that returned back to their homes with EU money spend for travel, tell their real ID after 3-5 years when they are despaired!!!!!!
and many times take 2-6 months so that their home-state recogns their ID and accept them
but in 50% the home state did not recognise them,
so consider your shelf to lost in purpose your papers, caught for illegal immigration, after 5 years you give/tell your real ID, and because you are a Christian or a Kurd, or a Shiit or Suni your real homeland denies your return or can not identify you?

the only solution is to let them drown or shoot them when they step the land, but that is against European laws and international laws for sea shipwreckage floatsma and jetsam etc etc

it is like a movie with a person that spend his life in an international zone in an airport, having no pappers to return back, and no passport to enter the new country.


traffickers and slave merchants knew the laws and the treaties, better that we, to this trust me,

Vallicanus
27-04-15, 12:50
You say you want to kill migrants and yet your own Greek ancestry has a great deal of West Asian, South West Asian, Caucasus and Red Sea mixture according to th Eupedia genetic maps.

giuseppe rossi
27-04-15, 14:28
LOL

Vallicanus is a Jewish immigrant in Scotland and talks about MENA admixture in Greece.

Internet is crazy.

Vallicanus
27-04-15, 14:46
You know this how?

In any case Yetos should be banned for suggesting the killing of migrants.

epoch
27-04-15, 16:23
Are you seriously going to give moral (or immoral) equivalence to poor, desperate people fleeing a war zone who break the law by trying to enter a country illegally with supposedly civilized members of the European community standing by and watching those men, women and children drown in front of their eyes when they could very easily save them?

The majority is neither poor - it takes several thousands of euro's to plan this - nor fleeing. Take a look at 0.18:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDDJzclnzXA


Whats up? Money! Money! Money!

It's the political correct brigade that showers the illegals with rights until they get a permit to stay that keeps this in place. They have blood on their hands.

Maleth
27-04-15, 18:26
Malta refuses 100% , they boat them to Italy and Greece

This is not possible according to EU law. Applications need to be processed by the country port of call. So far Malta processed nearly 20,000 applications. Just to get an idea equivalent to 3 million applications in the UK population wise. since the UK (as an example has a population of 150 times that of Malta (if not more).

Hauteville
28-04-15, 19:54
This is not possible according to EU law. Applications need to be processed by the country port of call. So far Malta processed nearly 20,000 applications. Just to get an idea equivalent to 3 million applications in the UK population wise. since the UK (as an example has a population of 150 times that of Malta (if not more).
20.000 of them got maltese citizenship nowadays?

Maleth
29-04-15, 09:14
20.000 of them got maltese citizenship nowadays?

No Hauteville, none of the immigrants get citizenship, a small percentage are sent back as they would not qualify as refugees (like Nigerians and North Africans). A group usually vandalize the premises when they find out they would be going back. The vast majority that qualify for refugee status will be placed in detention centres. Then released to the community who qualify for free health and unemployment benefits and temporary working permits. Very few were taken up by the USA (some 150). The EU just send money to improve conditions in the detention centres and other costs incurred, but not interested in burden sharing as they say they have their own anti immigration issues in their own countries. Some find employment mostly in construction industry. In reality when interviewed none of the immigrants had any intention to be in Malta but their aim is bigger cities in Europe and going to the US. They state this time and time again.

Hauteville
30-04-15, 18:09
It's like here, many say that they want to leave Italy but in fact many of them stay still here.

Yetos
02-05-15, 16:25
LOL

Vallicanus is a Jewish immigrant in Scotland and talks about MENA admixture in Greece.

Internet is crazy.

Valicanus is an Albanian under Scottish Flag

Yetos
02-05-15, 16:27
You know this how?

In any case Yetos should be banned for suggesting the killing of migrants.

Oh Really another Albanian, this time under Scottish flag, which puts words in my mouth,

can you give link?

Maleth
04-05-15, 15:28
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150504/local/migrants-refusing-help-from-maltese-patrol-boats.566735

Angela
04-05-15, 15:47
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150504/local/migrants-refusing-help-from-maltese-patrol-boats.566735

They think they're going to reach northern Europe in those rickety things? Through the Straits of Gibraltar? I think their sense of geography is a little off...not to mention their navigation skills.

Do they settle for Italy?

Vallicanus
04-05-15, 16:15
Oh Really another Albanian, this time under Scottish flag, which puts words in my mouth,

can you give link?

Try Post 33 above for your genocidal words.

Are you not the Albanian here?

Vallicanus
04-05-15, 16:18
Post 33 said you would like to shoot them when they land.

Vallicanus
04-05-15, 16:22
They think they're going to reach northern Europe in those rickety things? Through the Straits of Gibraltar? I think their sense of geography is a little off...not to mention their navigation skills.

Do they settle for Italy?

Some do.

Italy rescued 170,000 in 2014.

It will be a much higher number this year (4,000 last week end alone).

Kardu
04-05-15, 19:44
They think they're going to reach northern Europe in those rickety things? Through the Straits of Gibraltar? I think their sense of geography is a little off...not to mention their navigation skills.

Do they settle for Italy?

"Other countries retort that Italy often skirts that burden by neglecting to fingerprint applicants and letting them go where they will—which in practice means anywhere in the borderless Schengen area. Economic migrants know that, if at all possible, they should avoid getting fingerprinted and head north. Very few failed applicants for asylum get deported from Italy; a lot of economic migrants get in and move on, say other European countries."

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21649488-those-peril

Yetos
04-05-15, 19:44
Post 33 said you would like to shoot them when they land.

after all I wrote that is what you wanted to see or keep?

I am not expecting something more from an Albanian under Scottish flag

I wonder are you a TRAFFICKER?

Yetos
04-05-15, 20:46
Frontex annual risk analysis for 2015

http://frontex.europa.eu/news/frontex-publishes-annual-risk-analysis-2015-lA1x1g

Angela
04-05-15, 21:07
"Other countries retort that Italy often skirts that burden by neglecting to fingerprint applicants and letting them go where they will—which in practice means anywhere in the borderless Schengen area. Economic migrants know that, if at all possible, they should avoid getting fingerprinted and head north. Very few failed applicants for asylum get deported from Italy; a lot of economic migrants get in and move on, say other European countries."

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21649488-those-peril

Good, if that actually were the case, which it isn't. We still have more of them, along with Malta and Greece. Why should it just be Italy or the southern European countries that have to bear the burden of absorbing all these illegal, poor, uneducated people?

I thought this was supposed to be what the EU was all about...Why haven't they come up with a unified policy and enforced it, and distributed those immigrants it wants to keep proportionally? The answer is that for some countries it's all about unity when it's to their benefit and when it's not then they want to protect their own individual sovereignty. Hence, French soldiers at the border turning Maghrebis back when they actually have relatives in France. Hypocrisy, as always, reigns supreme.

People and countries generally act in their own self-interest. They're not reacting as "Europeans" first and foremost. Italian leaders and the Italian public have believed too much of the propaganda. They need to turn some of their cynicism outward instead of inward all the time.

bicicleur
04-05-15, 22:18
Good, if that actually were the case, which it isn't. We still have more of them, along with Malta and Greece. Why should it just be Italy or the southern European countries that have to bear the burden of absorbing all these illegal, poor, uneducated people?

I thought this was supposed to be what the EU was all about...Why haven't they come up with a unified policy and enforced it, and distributed those immigrants it wants to keep proportionally? The answer is that for some countries it's all about unity when it's to their benefit and when it's not then they want to protect their own individual sovereignty. Hence, French soldiers at the border turning Maghrebis back when they actually have relatives in France. Hypocrisy, as always, reigns supreme.

People and countries generally act in their own self-interest. They're not reacting as "Europeans" first and foremost. Italian leaders and the Italian public have believed too much of the propaganda. They need to turn some of their cynicism outward instead of inward all the time.

do you have the statistics?
I've just seen them on the news, I'm not sure they are correct
but it appears that northern EU countries end up taking more refugees in than southern EU countries

and about those Maghreb families, explain me how it is in the US. if you get a green card is it valid for yourself only or for the whole family?
if you don't have the right papers you simply don't enter the US, do you?

Angela
05-05-15, 06:47
do you have the statistics?
I've just seen them on the news, I'm not sure they are correct
but it appears that northern EU countries end up taking more refugees in than southern EU countries

and about those Maghreb families, explain me how it is in the US. if you get a green card is it valid for yourself only or for the whole family?
if you don't have the right papers you simply don't enter the US, do you?

Goodness, no. It doesn't work like that at all. The borders here are like a sieve. We have people swimming across the Rio Grande from Mexico every night, and walking through rural areas and our deserts at night as well, or hidden in trucks or cars, and on and on, all guided by "coyotes" for pay.

We recently had a situation where thousands and thousands of children were sent across the border with coyotes, some of them winding up abused, because the parents knew that the government would definitely not send them back. They were right too. A certain number of these poor souls die, but most get across the border and join the millions of undocumented people (without a green card or even a visa) already here. They're called "illegal aliens."

Of course, despite the fact that they're here illegally, the schools have to educate their children(you're not even allowed to ask if they're here illegally), the hospitals still have to treat them, and on and on. Recently, it was even proposed that they be given legal driver's licenses. I hope I don't need to tell you that there's a booming market in fake green cards, the hijacking of social security numbers etc. Some loons want them to have the right to vote when they're not even here legally. Not that they would have any difficulty voting if they choose to...there's great resistance to even getting legislation passed requiring people to present any piece of identification when they vote just to make sure they live where they say they live and therefore don't get to vote multiple times. (There used to be a joke that the vote for the Democratic machine in Chicago totaled more than the entire population of the city. When checks are run afterwards, there's always a certain number of "dead" people who voted, or people who are in prison. :)) Even if they get arrested for crimes and are delivered to the border, they just wait a few nights and cross again. Every once in a while there's a new scandal about it.

Oh, and the prior has to do with illegal immigration by the poor who are just "walking" or being "driven" in, although they get the money for the coyotes some way, probably in ways we really don't want to know about. Desperation makes people do awful things. A whole other category is made up of the people who come here by plane with student or even tourist visas and just never leave. Here in New York we used to have a number of Irish illegal immigrants in this category, but lots of other national groups too.

There's absolutely no way to track these people because Americans don't carry, or indeed have, identity cards. A driver's license functions as one but of course there's a certain percentage of the population who never got a driver's license. It doesn't matter, because it's not absolutely essential. You don't have to show any papers to rent a room, or register anywhere when you move your residence, or show papers when buying something if you want to pay cash. Nothing like that. You can go where you want, when you want, buy what you want, and no one can ask you anything. You can usually get a job under the table for cash if you hustle enough, although it might not be great pay. For better work you do need a green card, but as I said it's not that hard to get fakes ones. Lately, there's been a mini boom of relatively well to do women from Hong Kong and other areas of south east Asia who come here around the time that they're due to give birth. They stay until they do, because any child born here is automatically a U.S. citizen.

This all translates into political warfare over the issue.

Unions are anti-illegal immigration because they claim these people take jobs, agribusiness says we need them because Americans won't do this kind of poor paying work, the Church says we have to accept them in the spirit of Christianity and brotherhood and social justice, conservatives rail against it saying it's eating up millions of dollars of revenue and we can't afford it, liberals say if they were given papers and a path to citizenship they'd pay taxes and help the economy, far left people have set up sanctuary cities, the government periodically rounds some people up and deports them, but then passes legislation saying that if the kids reach 18 and joint the service they get citizenship, and on and on. Basically, once someone has children here, the government isn't going to break up the family and send the parents to wherever...Trust me on this stuff. I know lots of immigration lawyers.

Then, every so often, the government issues an "amnesty" and these people get legalized, which only encourages more to come illegally. Meanwhile, engineers, and doctors, and scientists, and computer people, who we really need, are stuck waiting for years to come in legally with green cards.

It's madness. There's no rhyme, reason, logic or sound policy that I can see.

Oh, and as for hypocrisy U.S. style, every once in a while some political career is scuttled because the candidate's family has hired illegal aliens to baby sit, clean the house, do the lawn work, you name it. Those services come cheaper if payments don't have to be made to an employee's Social Security account or health care, and if income taxes don't have to be paid the employee makes more money. So cash exchanges hands and everybody gets a benefit. Well, except for the government, of course, which doesn't get the taxes.

So, no, the U.S. doesn't have a handle on any of this either. There's nothing wrong with immigration. I'm an immigrant here myself, and so was my whole family, but the U.S. can't absorb the entire world's population of poor people. It has to also be done legally, and there has to be some order and control and some rational planning, but I don't see it happening. Anyway, that's my two cents. :)

I feel absolutely antediluvian for being part of a family that waited in line for a number of years, had to have health checks (no TB, no venereal disease, no other communicable disease; today you have to be immunized, I believe) and endure background checks (at that time, they still checked for Communist ties among other things), where the adults had to provide some proof of a needed skill or gainful employment in the past, and also had to give a list of some people willing to provide some help with support upon our arrival. That's what it took for us to get green cards.

Kardu
05-05-15, 11:28
Goodness, no. It doesn't work like that at all. The borders here are like a sieve. We have people swimming across the Rio Grande from Mexico every night, and walking through rural areas and our deserts at night as well, or hidden in trucks or cars, and on and on, all guided by "coyotes" for pay.

We recently had a situation where thousands and thousands of children were sent across the border with coyotes, some of them winding up abused, because the parents knew that the government would definitely not send them back. They were right too. A certain number of these poor souls die, but most get across the border and join the millions of undocumented people (without a green card or even a visa) already here. They're called "illegal aliens."

Of course, despite the fact that they're here illegally, the schools have to educate their children(you're not even allowed to ask if they're here illegally), the hospitals still have to treat them, and on and on. Recently, it was even proposed that they be given legal driver's licenses. I hope I don't need to tell you that there's a booming market in fake green cards, the hijacking of social security numbers etc. Some loons want them to have the right to vote when they're not even here legally. Not that they would have any difficulty voting if they choose to...there's great resistance to even getting legislation passed requiring people to present any piece of identification when they vote just to make sure they live where they say they live and therefore don't get to vote multiple times. (There used to be a joke that the vote for the Democratic machine in Chicago totaled more than the entire population of the city. When checks are run afterwards, there's always a certain number of "dead" people who voted, or people who are in prison. :)) Even if they get arrested for crimes and are delivered to the border, they just wait a few nights and cross again. Every once in a while there's a new scandal about it.

Oh, and the prior has to do with illegal immigration by the poor who are just "walking" or being "driven" in, although they get the money for the coyotes some way, probably in ways we really don't want to know about. Desperation makes people do awful things. A whole other category is made up of the people who come here by plane with student or even tourist visas and just never leave. Here in New York we used to have a number of Irish illegal immigrants in this category, but lots of other national groups too.

There's absolutely no way to track these people because Americans don't carry, or indeed have, identity cards. A driver's license functions as one but of course there's a certain percentage of the population who never got a driver's license. It doesn't matter, because it's not absolutely essential. You don't have to show any papers to rent a room, or register anywhere when you move your residence, or show papers when buying something if you want to pay cash. Nothing like that. You can go where you want, when you want, buy what you want, and no one can ask you anything. You can usually get a job under the table for cash if you hustle enough, although it might not be great pay. For better work you do need a green card, but as I said it's not that hard to get fakes ones. Lately, there's been a mini boom of relatively well to do women from Hong Kong and other areas of south east Asia who come here around the time that they're due to give birth. They stay until they do, because any child born here is automatically a U.S. citizen.

This all translates into political warfare over the issue.

Unions are anti-illegal immigration because they claim these people take jobs, agribusiness says we need them because Americans won't do this kind of poor paying work, the Church says we have to accept them in the spirit of Christianity and brotherhood and social justice, conservatives rail against it saying it's eating up millions of dollars of revenue and we can't afford it, liberals say if they were given papers and a path to citizenship they'd pay taxes and help the economy, far left people have set up sanctuary cities, the government periodically rounds some people up and deports them, but then passes legislation saying that if the kids reach 18 and joint the service they get citizenship, and on and on. Basically, once someone has children here, the government isn't going to break up the family and send the parents to wherever...Trust me on this stuff. I know lots of immigration lawyers.

Then, every so often, the government issues an "amnesty" and these people get legalized, which only encourages more to come illegally. Meanwhile, engineers, and doctors, and scientists, and computer people, who we really need, are stuck waiting for years to come in legally with green cards.

It's madness. There's no rhyme, reason, logic or sound policy that I can see.

Oh, and as for hypocrisy U.S. style, every once in a while some political career is scuttled because the candidate's family has hired illegal aliens to baby sit, clean the house, do the lawn work, you name it. Those services come cheaper if payments don't have to be made to an employee's Social Security account or health care, and if income taxes don't have to be paid the employee makes more money. So cash exchanges hands and everybody gets a benefit. Well, except for the government, of course, which doesn't get the taxes.

So, no, the U.S. doesn't have a handle on any of this either. There's nothing wrong with immigration. I'm an immigrant here myself, and so was my whole family, but the U.S. can't absorb the entire world's population of poor people. It has to also be done legally, and there has to be some order and control and some rational planning, but I don't see it happening. Anyway, that's my two cents. :)

I feel absolutely antediluvian for being part of a family that waited in line for a number of years, had to have health checks (no TB, no venereal disease, no other communicable disease; today you have to be immunized, I believe) and endure background checks (at that time, they still checked for Communist ties among other things), where the adults had to provide some proof of a needed skill or gainful employment in the past, and also had to give a list of some people willing to provide some help with support upon our arrival. That's what it took for us to get green cards.

Most probably it can't continue like this for long. No welfare or other kind support system can withstand that.

Hauteville
05-05-15, 16:11
What posted a friend of mine today.
Terrible if it's true.
http://voxnews.info/2014/08/14/pd-choc-ripopoliamo-litalia-con-immigrati/

Kardu
05-05-15, 16:33
What posted a friend of mine today.
Terrible if it's true.
http://voxnews.info/2014/08/14/pd-choc-ripopoliamo-litalia-con-immigrati/

I wouldn't be surpised if it's true.

Similar thing happened in the UK and while earlier ridiculed as a bigoted 'conspiracy theory' now it's mainstream news

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324112/Lord-Mandelson-Immigrants-We-sent-search-parties-hard-Britons-work.html

Hauteville
05-05-15, 16:33
Meanwhile the invasion is continue.
194 in Catania
http://www.ansa.it/sicilia/notizie/2015/05/05/194-migranti-a-catania-anche-5-cadaveri_bdd15553-57a6-42a6-b8d7-feca0c735ce4.html


217 in Crotone
http://www.strettoweb.com/2015/05/crotone-arrivati-217-migranti/274861/


650 in Salerno
http://lacittadisalerno.gelocal.it/salerno/cronaca/2015/05/05/news/e-attraccata-al-porto-la-nave-con-653-migranti-1.11360883


369 in Pozzallo
http://www.sardegnaoggi.it/adnkronos/2015-05-05/b4c672cbea535164979605c297d43cad/Immigrati_in_369_giunti_a_Pozzallo_fermati_tre_sca fisti.html


779 in Reggio Calabria
http://www.ilquotidianoweb.it/news/cronache/736851/Sbarcati-a-Reggio-Calabria-quasi-800.html

Angela
05-05-15, 17:49
What posted a friend of mine today.
Terrible if it's true.
http://voxnews.info/2014/08/14/pd-choc-ripopoliamo-litalia-con-immigrati/

I stopped reading after the first paragraph...queste ******** mi fanno impazzire.

They're already doing it in the Magra Valley right near where I was born. Yes, it's true that many of these ancient little farming villages are either abandoned or are inhabited only by the very old. Does that mean it makes any sense to dump hundreds, and who knows, maybe thousands of these poor, uneducated people into them? That's a solution? It's only a solution for the people living in more wealthy areas who don't want to see them underfoot.

These people will still need tons of social welfare payments. If Italian peasants with centuries of experience on how to farm this land can't make a decent living from such small holdings in this day and age, just what makes bureaucrats of the PD think that Moroccans or Somalis will be able to do it? If they're not farming, just what are they supposed to do there? These places were abandoned precisely because there is not work there; no commerce, no industry, just history and beauty, and you can't eat either.

They're just transporting the slums from the city to the countryside. Plus, they will be slums full of people who don't speak the language, and, more importantly, many of these people hold social and religious views that date to the 700's, and many of them have shown no indication that they are willing to assimilate and adopt modern attitudes. Didn't some of them just toss Christian asylum seekers overboard for praying to Jesus?

Has everybody taken leave of their senses? If Italians persist in marrying late if at all and having only one child, and Italy needs to import workers to pay the taxes necessary to support social services for the increasingly aged population, then does it make sense to import people with no marketable skills? We're not building huge railroad lines and public works anymore, and in America, at least, it's a post industrialist era. We don't produce all that much. How many factory jobs can be provided? How many low paying, menial jobs need to be filled? What are the rest of them supposed to do?

It's beyond me where the reason is either in Europe or America.

Ed. To remove double quote

giuseppe rossi
05-05-15, 18:24
^^

I guess PD will use EU funds to feed those "refugees". Mark my words.

Vallicanus
05-05-15, 20:22
I wouldn't be surpised if it's true.

Similar thing happened in the UK and while earlier ridiculed as a bigoted 'conspiracy theory' now it's mainstream news

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324112/Lord-Mandelson-Immigrants-We-sent-search-parties-hard-Britons-work.html


Blair's Labour government wanted to spite the Tory Right by increasing ethnic diversity.
Renzi's PD are cut from similar cloth.

giuseppe rossi
05-05-15, 21:20
Valicanus is an Albanian under Scottish Flag

He is not an Albanian.

He is an Afro Semitic Jewish illegal in Scotland.

Maleth
05-05-15, 22:28
I stopped reading after the first paragraph...queste ******** mi fanno impazzire.

They're just transporting the slums from the city to the countryside. Plus, they will be slums full of people who don't speak the language, and, more importantly, many of these people hold social and religious views that date to the 700's, and many of them have shown no indication that they are willing to assimilate and adopt modern attitudes.

This is my very first main concern. These people are not moving to enjoy freedoms of thought or respect for minorities but mainly to get away from violence and terror and economic gains. They still think homosexuals should be killed, women should be at the service of men and consider the West undemocratic for not allowing sharia, polygamy and female genital mutilation.....



It's beyond me where the reason is either in Europe or America.

indeed

Maleth
05-05-15, 22:30
Could this be a start for a long term solution? better late then never.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/05/politics/us-somalia-key-moments/

Vallicanus
05-05-15, 23:07
He is not an Albanian.

He is an Afro Semitic Jewish illegal in Scotland.

You are both retarded.

The teenage penguin lover from Brooklyn and the Golden Dawn goatherd.

You pair should get a room.

Maleth
05-05-15, 23:25
They think they're going to reach northern Europe in those rickety things? Through the Straits of Gibraltar? I think their sense of geography is a little off...not to mention their navigation skills.

Do they settle for Italy?

Probably they feel they have more opportunity to be on the continent rather then Islands. Islands are a kind of a prison for them as they are monitored better and its clear their intention not to remain here. Once on the continent they can travel much more freely.

Yetos
05-05-15, 23:34
You are both retarded.

The teenage penguin lover from Brooklyn and the Golden Dawn goatherd.

You pair should get a room.

wow the man is not only an albanian under Scottish Flag, but probably also lives in Greece,
he knows Golden Dawn!!!!!!
maybe he lives in a street named Σουλιου

Yetos
05-05-15, 23:40
Ok back to Thread,

the last 2 days and the next 2 the weather is fine,
only at 4 May coastguard capture 266 illegal immigrants,
but who knows how many were not caught, or how many drown

http://fimotro.blogspot.gr/2015/05/t.html

seems like more than 1000 will pass this 4 days

Hauteville
05-05-15, 23:47
Tomorrow other 600 migrants in Naples.

http://www.diariopartenopeo.it/domani-arriveranno-600-migranti-a-napoli-prefettura-al-lavoro/

giuseppe rossi
06-05-15, 09:03
People should stop harassing Jewllicanus's brothers coming into Europe by boat....

Vallicanus
06-05-15, 09:13
Why does a punk in Brooklyn care about immigration to Europe?

Vallicanus
06-05-15, 09:16
wow the man is not only an albanian under Scottish Flag, but probably also lives in Greece,
he knows Golden Dawn!!!!!!
maybe he lives in a street named Σουλιου


That scum Golden Dawn has made the British news too, Mrs Arvanite..

giuseppe rossi
06-05-15, 09:39
Tomorrow other 600 migrants in Naples.

http://www.diariopartenopeo.it/domani-arriveranno-600-migranti-a-napoli-prefettura-al-lavoro/

These ones are clearly being relocated from Sicily, because it's impossible to reach Naples by boat.


Why does a punk in Brooklyn care about immigration to Europe?

Do not worry, Afro Semitic Yiddish friend.

We will soon deport you and your Black Brothers to Africa for God's sake.


Only 5,000 resettlement places across Europe (http://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news) are to be offered to refugees under the emergency summit crisis package to be agreed by EU leaders in Brussels on Thursday.

A confidential draft summit statement seen by the Guardian indicates that the vast majority of those who survive the journey and make it to Italy – 150,000 did so last year – will be sent back as irregular migrants under a new rapid-return programme co-ordinated by the EU’s border agency (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/22/most-migrants-crossing-mediterranean-will-be-sent-back-eu-leaders-to-agree#), Frontex. More than 36,000 boat survivors have reached Italy, Malta and Greece (http://www.theguardian.com/world/greece) so far this year.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/22/most-migrants-crossing-mediterranean-will-be-sent-back-eu-leaders-to-agree

Jewllicanus watch yourself!

Vallicanus
06-05-15, 12:42
European Law will not permit the return of refugees to war-torn Libya.

Angela
06-05-15, 15:05
Whoever you are, as far as I'm concerned you're skating very close to the line, Vallicanus.

Hauteville
07-05-15, 10:56
Other 424 in La Spezia because the CIE of Sicily, Calabria and Apulia are full.
http://www.avvenire.it/Cronaca/Pagine/immigrati-sbarco-napoli-nave-foscari.aspx

Italian government want the equitable distribution with other UE countries.


L'Italia chiede l'equa distribuzione in Europa
Il sottosegretario alla Difesa, Gioachino Alfano, in una nota, in riferimento allo sbarco di immigrati a Napoli, sottolinea di aver condiviso la linea del Ministro dell'Interno di "proseguire l'attivit negoziale per riuscire ad avere un'equa distribuzione dei migranti in tutti i territori dei Paesi dell' Unione europea e durante l'emergenza di un' equa distribuzione in tutte le regioni italiane. Il nostro Paese - ha proseguito il sottosegretario - ha il compito etico e morale di seppellire gli sfortunati arrivati morti e di accogliere chi arriva vivo perch dobbiamo essere per la vita e per la salvaguardia della stessa senza se e senza ma".

Angela
07-05-15, 15:13
Other 424 in La Spezia because the CIE of Sicily, Calabria and Apulia are full.
http://www.avvenire.it/Cronaca/Pagine/immigrati-sbarco-napoli-nave-foscari.aspx

Italian government want the equitable distribution with other UE countries.

Well, the "altre malattie infettive " must be pretty serious, much more serious than the scabies they found, if they have to wear that kind of protective clothing to process them.

All that skulking around disembarking them tells you just how popular this move is going to be with the Spezzini. Have you been to LaSpezia lately? It's not as if we haven't gotten our fair share.

Added to all of that is the fact that as with the U.S. most of these people have no papers of any kind...how many criminals, how many ISIS members could be among them?

My heart aches for these people....pregnant and nursing mothers, some of them smothered in those ****** black shrouds, children...how horrific is their situation back home that they would brave this kind of perilous journey? Yet, how is this going to end?

Kardu
07-05-15, 16:46
Yet, how is this going to end?

Like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints

Maleth
07-05-15, 18:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvBKfOkQkEs

Hauteville
09-05-15, 12:33
Lol
http://www.lanazione.it/livorno/migranti-hotel-venturina-1.932340

Maleth
09-05-15, 15:58
Lol
http://www.lanazione.it/livorno/migranti-hotel-venturina-1.932340

"Migrants arriving in Sicily refuse to stay in Hotel because there is no TV and WI-FI"

But the brochure say it was part of the package?. For the price they must have paid to travel it should be included :wary2:

Kardu
09-05-15, 16:16
As the saying goes: "Give them a finger, and they'll take the whole hand"

Hauteville
09-05-15, 16:52
"Migrants arriving in Sicily refuse to stay in Hotel because there is no TV and WI-FI"

But the brochure say it was part of the package?. For the price they must have paid to travel it should be included :wary2:
Nah, they were transferred in Livorno and they refuse that Hotel.
Maybe we are an holiday for them.

Maleth
13-05-15, 20:13
http://www.euronews.com/2015/05/13/eu-launches-its-plan-to-tackle-the-mediterranean-migrant-crisis/

Hauteville
13-05-15, 20:17
An opinion of this new agreement between Italy and Europe?

Maleth
13-05-15, 20:25
An opinion of this new agreement between Italy and Europe?

I think its just a suggestion so far and needs approval. Im skeptical although its been the strongest preposition yet for something concrete to be done.

bicicleur
13-05-15, 21:20
An opinion of this new agreement between Italy and Europe?

It's a non-event, but it comes very handy for all politicians as they explain they made a good deal for their country
Italians will be relieved to hear everyone will do his share now as their politicians told them the burden was on Italy
But that was not true, few of the people rescued in front of the Italian coast actually apply for asylum inside Italy, they prefere not to be registered in Italy and try to travel up north.
Northern politicians are explaining their civilians that their country was allready doing their share, so there is no new obligation for them

Yetos
13-05-15, 21:24
the only ones who are happy in Greece of crisis, are always the tourists, and the newcomers illegall immigrants,

epoch
13-05-15, 22:06
My heart aches for these people....pregnant and nursing mothers, some of them smothered in those ****** black shrouds, children...how horrific is their situation back home that they would brave this kind of perilous journey? Yet, how is this going to end?


http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150504/local/migrants-refusing-help-from-maltese-patrol-boats.566735




Maltese patrol boats have not been picking up migrants at sea because the migrants themselves refuse to be rescued by Maltese boats, the commander of the AFM’s maritime unit, Lt Col Andrew Mallia has been quoted as saying by the Italian newspaper La Repubblica.

He said that whenever Maltese patrol boats intercepted migrants’ boats the migrants invariably refused help.

He explained that the migrants did not want to come to Malta because that would make it difficult for them to proceed to Northern Europe.

epoch
13-05-15, 22:09
The ONLY solution to this is a reassesment of the UN refugee treaty. It is a travesty. It facilitates this migrant crisis, if not causes this.

Angela
13-05-15, 22:13
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150504/local/migrants-refusing-help-from-maltese-patrol-boats.566735

Well, they're settling for Italy because as posts upthread have indicated, they're disembarking in Napoli and Livorno.

You ought to pay a trip to the Cinque Terre, but take a little side excursion to the older, poorer streets of La Spezia. You'll hear more Moroccan than Italian.

It started a while ago. It's just getting more intense.
7235

epoch
13-05-15, 22:28
Well, they're settling for Italy because as posts upthread have indicated, they're disembarking in Napoli and Livorno.

You ought to pay a trip to the Cinque Terre, but take a little side excursion to the older, poorer streets of La Spezia. You'll hear more Moroccan than Italian.

It started a while ago. It's just getting more intense.
7235

Trust me, we have similar shit. I lived in such neighbourhoods.

Angela
13-05-15, 22:59
Trust me, we have similar shit. I lived in such neighbourhoods.

I was merely pointing out that while they may not want to land in Malta, they have no objection to landing in Italy. I have no doubt many of them would then prefer to move on. Many of the North Africans already have family in France for example.

It is indeed a problem, but I would never use that word to describe desperate human beings.

LeBrok
14-05-15, 00:35
Who doesn't have room for new immigrants.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/15/article-1056390-02AB4DAA00000578-611_468x329.jpg

4 countries are just bursting in seams.

I heard Yetos for years lamenting about emigrants pouring into the Greece. Still Greece is underpopulated. But looke at Malta! Can we call it a country of Sardines?

Definitely Eastern Europe has some room, and Balkans. I'm surprised on so few refuges in Spain.

http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/2a937efa-96af-11e0-baca-00144feab49a.img

Hauteville
14-05-15, 01:12
Who doesn't have room for new immigrants.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/15/article-1056390-02AB4DAA00000578-611_468x329.jpg

4 countries are just bursting in seams.

I heard Yetos for years lamenting about emigrants pouring into the Greece. Still Greece is underpopulated. But looke at Malta! Can we call it a country of Sardines?

Definitely Eastern Europe has some room, and Balkans. I'm surprised on so few refuges in Spain.

http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/2a937efa-96af-11e0-baca-00144feab49a.img
Mah.
Angela you must look Via Maqueda in Palermo, it's full of South Asians and Catania as well.
I don't know why many are here.

Kardu
14-05-15, 12:52
Who doesn't have room for new immigrants.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/15/article-1056390-02AB4DAA00000578-611_468x329.jpg

4 countries are just bursting in seams.

I heard Yetos for years lamenting about emigrants pouring into the Greece. Still Greece is underpopulated. But looke at Malta! Can we call it a country of Sardines?

Definitely Eastern Europe has some room, and Balkans. I'm surprised on so few refuges in Spain.

http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/2a937efa-96af-11e0-baca-00144feab49a.img

Spain has one of the highest rates of asylum refusal in Europe, that why European Commission and various "human rights" groups are whining and pesting Spain to change its policy.

Maleth
14-05-15, 15:06
Who doesn't have room for new immigrants.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/15/article-1056390-02AB4DAA00000578-611_468x329.jpg

4 countries are just bursting in seams.

I heard Yetos for years lamenting about emigrants pouring into the Greece. Still Greece is underpopulated. But looke at Malta! Can we call it a country of Sardines?

Definitely Eastern Europe has some room, and Balkans. I'm surprised on so few refuges in Spain.

http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/2a937efa-96af-11e0-baca-00144feab49a.img


Shocking numbers indeed. Put those numbers in perspective of the whole population (forget the land size) and one can get a better picture.

Maleth
14-05-15, 15:17
Spain has one of the highest rates of asylum refusal in Europe, that why European Commission and various "human rights" groups are whining and pesting Spain to change its policy.

The type of illegal immigrants that enter Spain do not qualify for asylum such as Moroccans and other subsharan who can returned back according to UN charter. Hardly any Somalis, Eritreans or Syrians travel all the way to Spain. If they did they would have to comply as asylum cannot be refused for people from these countries. However they are more then welcome to host a few from here, seems like there is so much space :)

Kardu
14-05-15, 15:35
The type of illegal immigrants that enter Spain do not qualify for asylum such as Moroccans and other subsharan who can returned back according to UN charter. Hardly any Somalis, Eritreans or Syrians travel all the way to Spain. If they did they would have to comply as asylum cannot be refused for people from these countries. However they are more then welcome to host a few from here, seems like there is so much space :)

Spain might not grant them asylum but still lets them enter temporarily at least(whoever manages). In every big city of Spain you can see numerous sub-saharan Africans selling counterfeit Chinese products (usually they are very tall, not sure which country in Africa they come from).
And don't forget that many of them don't reveal their country of origin (well instructed by "human rights" groups) and determining who qualifies for the asylum takes lot of time and tax-payer money.

Maleth
14-05-15, 16:10
Spain might not grant them asylum but still lets them enter temporarily at least(whoever manages). In every big city of Spain you can see numerous sub-saharan Africans selling counterfeit Chinese products (usually they are very tall, not sure which country in Africa they come from).
And don't forget that many of them don't reveal their country of origin (well instructed by "human rights" groups) and determining who qualifies for the asylum takes lot of time and tax-payer money.

But according to the chart in 2009 Spain with a population of 46 million people is hosting just 4000 asylum approved migrants. Sweden with a population of 10 million is hosting 81,000 asylum approved migrants. Malta with a population of 400,000 people is hosting 6000 asylum approved migrants (2000 more then spain and look at the populations and land size). Asylum approved means that these people go on free health, schooling for children, need housing and given dole money to survive for indefinite period of time. Spain situation is minimal to say the least compared to others.

bicicleur
14-05-15, 16:36
Who doesn't have room for new immigrants.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/15/article-1056390-02AB4DAA00000578-611_468x329.jpg

4 countries are just bursting in seams.

I heard Yetos for years lamenting about emigrants pouring into the Greece. Still Greece is underpopulated. But looke at Malta! Can we call it a country of Sardines?

Definitely Eastern Europe has some room, and Balkans. I'm surprised on so few refuges in Spain.

http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/2a937efa-96af-11e0-baca-00144feab49a.img

indeed, when you're in Eastern Europe you immeadiately see less immigrants
well, it isn't the fault of the Eastern Europeans
the immigrants prefere to go to countries were they can get larger social welfare benefits

as for the figure for Belgium, it is low
this does not reflect reality
the figures are 2009
Belgium has regularised immigrants on several occasions, making illegals legal by giving them Belgian nationality
that was done by politicians who needed the majority by incorporating the green party in the government who demanded regularisation
now it appears many criminals got Belgian nationality that way
those were 'refugees' for the law in their own country
they should put them in jail together with the politicians that regularised them

anyway the low figure reflects the non-regularised portion

Kardu
14-05-15, 17:50
But according to the chart in 2009 Spain with a population of 46 million people is hosting just 4000 asylum approved migrants. Sweden with a population of 10 million is hosting 81,000 asylum approved migrants. Malta with a population of 400,000 people is hosting 6000 asylum approved migrants (2000 more then spain and look at the populations and land size). Asylum approved means that these people go on free health, schooling for children, need housing and given dole money to survive for indefinite period of time. Spain situation is minimal to say the least compared to others.

What can I say.. Learn from Spain ;)

Yetos
14-05-15, 19:59
Who doesn't have room for new immigrants.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/15/article-1056390-02AB4DAA00000578-611_468x329.jpg

4 countries are just bursting in seams.

I heard Yetos for years lamenting :shocked: about emigrants pouring into the Greece. Still Greece is underpopulated. But looke at Malta! Can we call it a country of Sardines?

Definitely Eastern Europe has some room, and Balkans. I'm surprised on so few refuges in Spain.

http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/2a937efa-96af-11e0-baca-00144feab49a.img

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked::laughing:


Well i was expecting that From you
But is it as you say?
Greece 43% non fertile land, rockshttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/)

But If that is what you are wondering and what you are conserning ok then

ALGERIA
area 2,381,741 km2
pop 37,900,000
dens 15.9/km2

Greece
area 131,957 km2
pop 10,816,286 (unknown illegal that are not written or with no pappers)
den (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#cite_note-3)82[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#cite_note-4)/km2

so with logic peoplehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) should go to Algeria?
you tell me lame

but this the mirror of your logic!!!!!!!

thank you , you just prove again your feelings about S Europeans and Balkans, and especially me,
but I show you what happenes if we follow your logic,
peoplehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) try to livehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) near water, and fertile land, not stones, neither desert!!



if you want to playhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) Jesus Christ, take them to Canada, :thinking:
Saskatchewan has density1.75/km2

it is 5x times Greece area and 1/10 population
why not? :good_job:

No you gave me a Better Idea, Afganistan has 43/km2 density,
we should send Europeans and Americans to immigrate there!!!!!

bye bye my smart :rolleyes2: friend
cool :cool-v: we solve the world immigration problem

Sahara and Kallahari has small density,
with your thinking they should accept immigrants!!\
and what about Antarktica? 0.0..01/km2 should we colonize it? :innocent:


LE Brok
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Island_of_Ofidoussa.JPG/1280px-Island_of_Ofidoussa.JPG


It has density 0
it is 0,5 km2
would you like to live?

LeBrok
15-05-15, 01:31
What can I say.. Learn from Spain ;)
It is funny that it comes from immigrant to Spain. How would you feel about Spain if they didn't accept you?

LeBrok
15-05-15, 01:36
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked::laughing:


Well i was expecting that From you
But is it as you say?
Greece 43% non fertile land, rockshttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/)

But If that is what you are wondering and what you are conserning ok then

ALGERIA
area 2,381,741 km2
pop 37,900,000
dens 15.9/km2

Greece
area 131,957 km2
pop 10,816,286 (unknown illegal that are not written or with no pappers)
den (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#cite_note-3)82[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#cite_note-4)/km2

so with logic peoplehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) should go to Algeria?
you tell me lame

but this the mirror of your logic!!!!!!!

thank you , you just prove again your feelings about S Europeans and Balkans, and especially me,
but I show you what happenes if we follow your logic,
peoplehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) try to livehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) near water, and fertile land, not stones, neither desert!!



if you want to playhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) Jesus Christ, take them to Canada, :thinking:
Saskatchewan has density1.75/km2

it is 5x times Greece area and 1/10 population
why not? :good_job:

No you gave me a Better Idea, Afganistan has 43/km2 density,
we should send Europeans and Americans to immigrate there!!!!!

bye bye my smart :rolleyes2: friend
cool :cool-v: we solve the world immigration problem

Sahara and Kallahari has small density,
with your thinking they should accept immigrants!!\
and what about Antarktica? 0.0..01/km2 should we colonize it? :innocent:


LE Brok



It has density 0
it is 0,5 km2
would you like to live?
The logic was to compare European countries in relation to acceptance of refugees, and not my wish where I want to live.
It was you who always cries that immigrants are flooding the Greece. As you can see from statistics, it is not the case at all, but instead it is your imagination doing tricks on you. For you one immigrant is too many, I guess.

Kardu
15-05-15, 10:29
It is funny that it comes from immigrant to Spain. How would you feel about Spain if they didn't accept you?

So you don't get bored with silly ad hominem attacks, I see. You think I came to Western Europe as an immigrant? :D Speaks a lot about your vision of world

LeBrok
15-05-15, 16:21
So you don't get bored with silly ad hominem attacks, I see. You think I came to Western Europe as an immigrant? :D Speaks a lot about your vision of world
Regardless the reason of your stay, you came there from abroad and you've been accepted. The thing you will deny to every others cumming from Africa or Middle East. That's hypocritical, if not racist.

Kardu
15-05-15, 18:41
Regardless the reason of your stay, you came there from abroad and you've been accepted. The thing you will deny to every others cumming from Africa or Middle East. That's hypocritical, if not racist.

So there is no difference who goes where and for what reason? I admire your reasoning...

Yetos
15-05-15, 21:34
Regardless the reason of your stay, you came there from abroad and you've been accepted. The thing you will deny to every others cumming from Africa or Middle East. That's hypocritical, if not racist.

The ones who armed ISIS and Taliban and create illegal immigration should accept the reffugges, as aproval of their wrong policies.

we do not speak about legal immigration, but illegal immigration,
which is create by wrong military policies, and is supported by 'hidden' agents |(prices-tickets are very high as you notice),

LeBrok
16-05-15, 02:01
So there is no difference who goes where and for what reason? I admire your reasoning... Are you saying that your reason is not to improve your life? I'm sure vast majority of emigrants go abroad for that reason.

LeBrok
16-05-15, 02:04
The ones who armed ISIS and Taliban and create illegal immigration should accept the reffugges, as aproval of their wrong policies.

we do not speak about legal immigration, but illegal immigration,
which is create by wrong military policies, and is supported by 'hidden' agents |(prices-tickets are very high as you notice),
The initial argument was that Greece have very few refuges, when compared to other European countries. Do you have other information or statistics?

Yetos
16-05-15, 06:41
The initial argument was that Greece have very few refuges, when compared to other European countries. Do you have other information or statisticshttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/)?


other European countries? like who?
like UK and France? or like Poland and Romania for example?
and the refugges in UK and France enter illegal? or enter legal through ex-colonies?
more than 25% of Greece population are immigrants,
Greece has a small birth rate after 1960 and the greeks estimated to be 7-8 millions in Greece as much as the census of 1970's
about 10% are from ex-communistic countries and Georgia but they came with pappers, legally
a small % are from south and central America also entered with pappers,
and more than 15% are illegal immigrants from areas where Taliban and Daesh exist or act.
so when someone is pointing moon, do not see the finger,
we speak about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, THAT IS FOLLOWED BY NON IDENTIFIED PERSONS,
WITH POSSIBILITY OF ACCEPTANCE CRIMINALITY AND FOUNDAMENTALISM
NOW IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE OF ILLEGAL AND LEGAL IMMIGRATION IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

But to help you, Slaves in US entered with pappers or took pappers after they were bought from the slave market?
did they left Africa with pappers in the ship of slavemerchants?
cause today we have something worse,
modern slaves pay the slave merchant to be carried!!!
we are facing a modern Mafia of slave merchants stronger than EU
BESIDES THESE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN GREECE,
THEY ARE FORCED TO,
THEIR DREAM IS TO GO TO WEST EUROPE AND US,
GREECE IS A TEMPORARY STATION, THAT MIGHT BE EVEN THEIR PRISON FOR DECADES,
It works like Ellis island



I answered you,

now answer to me
1) why the ones who armed DAESH and Taliban and create that humanitarian crisis, did not accept illegal immigrants as a recognisisng of their acts?
2) if I pass illegaly to a country outside EU which will be my faih?
3) why NATO was and is patroling and search and watch every ship in the Arabian Gulf, and not these ships?

Maleth
16-05-15, 08:24
So far The UK, Hungary and Poland refuse the plan for quota sharing of new illegal migrants / refugees (not sure what to call them). Seems like not much is going to change. Lets see.

Vallicanus
16-05-15, 09:35
Are you saying that your reason is not to improve your life? I'm sure vast majority of emigrants go abroad for that reason.

Many EU countries have high unemployment among the young.

Where would the MILLIONS of Africans that want to come fit in?

Kardu
16-05-15, 10:23
Are you saying that your reason is not to improve your life? I'm sure vast majority of emigrants go abroad for that reason.

Certainly not. Georgia might be an economically undeveloped country, but I personally would earn there more than I do now in Western Europe.

LeBrok
16-05-15, 14:47
Many EU countries have high unemployment among the young.

Where would the MILLIONS of Africans that want to come fit in?
What this has to do with a reason of why they are coming?

LeBrok
16-05-15, 14:48
Certainly not. Georgia might be an economically undeveloped country, but I personally would earn there more than I do now in Western Europe. What is the reason you came to Spain?

LeBrok
16-05-15, 14:49
other European countries? like who?
like UK and France? or like Poland and Romania for example?
and the refugges in UK and France enter illegal? or enter legal through ex-colonies?
more than 25% of Greece population are immigrants,
Greece has a small birth rate after 1960 and the greeks estimated to be 7-8 millions in Greece as much as the census of 1970's
about 10% are from ex-communistic countries and Georgia but they came with pappers, legally
a small % are from south and central America also entered with pappers,
and more than 15% are illegal immigrants from areas where Taliban and Daesh exist or act.
so when someone is pointing moon, do not see the finger,
we speak about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, THAT IS FOLLOWED BY NON IDENTIFIED PERSONS,
WITH POSSIBILITY OF ACCEPTANCE CRIMINALITY AND FOUNDAMENTALISM
NOW IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE OF ILLEGAL AND LEGAL IMMIGRATION IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

But to help you, Slaves in US entered with pappers or took pappers after they were bought from the slave market?
did they left Africa with pappers in the ship of slavemerchants?
cause today we have something worse,
modern slaves pay the slave merchant to be carried!!!
we are facing a modern Mafia of slave merchants stronger than EU
BESIDES THESE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN GREECE,
THEY ARE FORCED TO,
THEIR DREAM IS TO GO TO WEST EUROPE AND US,
GREECE IS A TEMPORARY STATION, THAT MIGHT BE EVEN THEIR PRISON FOR DECADES,
It works like Ellis island



I answered you,

now answer to me
1) why the ones who armed DAESH and Taliban and create that humanitarian crisis, did not accept illegal immigrants as a recognisisng of their acts?
2) if I pass illegaly to a country outside EU which will be my faih?
3) why NATO was and is patroling and search and watch every ship in the Arabian Gulf, and not these ships?

Do you have Greek statistics about refugees?

Vallicanus
16-05-15, 15:43
What this has to do with a reason of why they are coming?

So you support EVEN HIGHER levels of unemployment in the EU?

LeBrok
16-05-15, 16:31
So you support EVEN HIGHER levels of unemployment in the EU? My position is that every country should have a right to set their immigration policy. Regardless, wasn't the argument about a reason behind immigration? What unemployment in Europe has to do with it?

Yetos
16-05-15, 16:36
Do you have Greek statistics about refugees?

yes,

arrested Illegal immigrants, (only these who are captured) 2013-2014
http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2014/statistics14/allod2014/statistics_all_2014_all.JPG



arrested boat owners, slave merchants or conductors

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2014/statistics14/allod2014/statistics_all_2014_dia.JPG


ten years reporthttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/)

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2014/statistics14/allod2014/statistics_all_2014_all&dia_apo2006.JPG

after Greek crisis that number is reduce, but still is from 5-10% each year,
NOT EVEN BIRTH RATES REACH THAT NUMBERS


under 30/04/2015 (end of April)

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_all.JPG



may I remind you that these are only the ones that are captured!!!!!!!!! not the ones who manage to pass without caught




and you can call me again lame

this are the number of the ones who had returned back from 01/01/2015 to 30/04/2015 by EU/Frontex moneyhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/), (cost to return is upon EU and local country)

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_apelaseis.JPG


exit does not always mean back to home, but can mean forward to another country,
for example Syrrians moved to France after acceptance of relatives there


illegal immigrants origins as declared or identified from 01/01 to 30/04/2015

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_sull_yphkoothta.JPG



you want more Data my friend?


ok the bellow is how many ask assylum and decided to livehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) permanent in Greece

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2012/statistics2012/06032012-aitiseis.jpg



it is older 5 years but can be used for your statisticalhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) search




http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/networks/european_migration_network/reports/docs/migration-statistics/asylum-migration/2009/gr_20120229_statistics2009_gr_version_final_el.pdf


caution

(http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/b/b7/Five_main_citizenships_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_applicants%2C_2014_%28number%2C_round ed_figures%29_YB15_III.png)http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/b/b7/Five_main_citizenships_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_applicants%2C_2014_%28number%2C_round ed_figures%29_YB15_III.png

the last may trick you,
for example I enter in SPAIN but since Eu I can ask assylum from Poland, although I am in Spain


PS
you still avoid to answer me

Vallicanus
16-05-15, 16:46
My position is that every country should have a right to set their immigration policy. Regardless, wasn't the argument about a reason behind immigration? What unemployment in Europe has to do with it?

The thread title does not mention reasons for immigration.

Kardu
16-05-15, 18:41
What is the reason you came to Spain?

You want me to give you a report on my life decisions? :) The reasons why currently I am mainly in Western Europe don't concern you.
And because you snooped my ip few times doesn't mean that I "came to Spain". Got it Aristotle?

LeBrok
16-05-15, 19:15
You want me to give you a report on my life decisions? :) The reasons why currently I am mainly in Western Europe don't concern you.
And because you snooped my ip few times doesn't mean that I "came to Spain". Got it Aristotle?
How about being honest? Can you do that?

Kardu
16-05-15, 20:44
How about being honest? Can you do that?

Whatever the reason it's not economical, and that's enough for the topic of the thread.
Being honest? What? Do I owe an explanation to you?! I advise you not to go personal next time.

LeBrok
16-05-15, 21:48
Whatever the reason it's not economical, and that's enough for the topic of the thread.
Being honest? What? Do I owe an explanation to you?! I advise you not to go personal next time.
Thank you Advisor Kardu. Judging by your honesty in the past, we need to reverse your statement to be true.

Anyway, economy wasn't really an issue, or just part of it. The question was whether you emigrated there to improve your life? You just narrowed it down to economy only. Unless you were sent by company to work there, or got drunk and accidentally woke up in Spain, you were (are) like the rest of emigrants trying to improve a life, let it be economically, politically or romantically. What is surprising, that being emigrant, you treat immigrants worse than local people do.

LeBrok
16-05-15, 22:21
yes,

arrested Illegal immigrants, (only these who are captured) 2013-2014
http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2014/statistics14/allod2014/statistics_all_2014_all.JPG



arrested boat owners, slave merchants or conductors

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2014/statistics14/allod2014/statistics_all_2014_dia.JPG


ten years reporthttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/)

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2014/statistics14/allod2014/statistics_all_2014_all&dia_apo2006.JPG

after Greek crisis that number is reduce, but still is from 5-10% each year,
NOT EVEN BIRTH RATES REACH THAT NUMBERS


under 30/04/2015 (end of April)

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_all.JPG



may I remind you that these are only the ones that are captured!!!!!!!!! not the ones who manage to pass without caught




and you can call me again lame

this are the number of the ones who had returned back from 01/01/2015 to 30/04/2015 by EU/Frontex moneyhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/), (cost to return is upon EU and local country)

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_apelaseis.JPG


exit does not always mean back to home, but can mean forward to another country,
for example Syrrians moved to France after acceptance of relatives there


illegal immigrants origins as declared or identified from 01/01 to 30/04/2015

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_sull_yphkoothta.JPG



you want more Data my friend?


ok the bellow is how many ask assylum and decided to livehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) permanent in Greece

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2012/statistics2012/06032012-aitiseis.jpg



it is older 5 years but can be used for your statisticalhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) search




http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/networks/european_migration_network/reports/docs/migration-statistics/asylum-migration/2009/gr_20120229_statistics2009_gr_version_final_el.pdf


caution

(http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/b/b7/Five_main_citizenships_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_applicants%2C_2014_%28number%2C_round ed_figures%29_YB15_III.png)http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/b/b7/Five_main_citizenships_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_applicants%2C_2014_%28number%2C_round ed_figures%29_YB15_III.png

the last may trick you,
for example I enter in SPAIN but since Eu I can ask assylum from Poland, although I am in Spain


PS
you still avoid to answer me

I can't see the pictures you posted and can't read Greek.
So what are the official number of refugees for Greece? If you willing to translate.

I'm not sure what last table you posted shows, there is no description. But anyhow, the numbers for Greece are low again. Quite with agreement with maps posted above. In this case I'm not sure what are you arguing about? Do you agree with these numbers?

Yetos
16-05-15, 22:34
I can't see the pictures you posted and can't read Greek.
So what are the official number of refugees for Greece? If you willing to translate.

I'm not sure what last table you posted shows, there is no description. But anyhow, the numbers for Greece are low again. Quite with agreement with maps posted above. In this case I'm not sure what are you arguing about? Do you agree with these numbers?


the numbers are low?

if we except Malta, the number are compatible with Italy per population,

NUMBERS CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED,

so this bellow can you see it?
it is only the arrested illegal immigrants, from 2006 to 2014,
I REPEAT ILLEGAL, NOT LEGAL,
watch 2008,
IT IS LIKE USA ARREST 4 500 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
OR GERMANY ARREST 1 100 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
or your favorite Poland arrest 500 000 illegal immigrants per year
ARE THESE NUMBERS SMALL?
WHAT WILL BE COMPARABLE TO YOU?
TO ENTER 10 000 000 PER YEAR IN A COUNTRY OF 10 000 000 ?
we SPEAK ABOUT 1 000 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS in 8 years meaning with analogy 10% of population
it is like Poland had arrest 3 900 000 in 8 years about 4 600 000 in 10 years
ok TELL ME WHICH EUROPEAN COUNTRY EXCEPT MALTA AND ITALY and a bit of SPAIN HAS SUCH ANALOGIES?

the blue column is the Illegal immigrants,
the red are the arrested 'traffickers' - 'conductors'
and among them are also few from my country, since money are always 'welcome' everywhere

source/link

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_all&dia_apo2006.JPG

photo


http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2014/statistics14/allod2014/statistics_all_2014_all&dia_apo2006.JPG


source / link the official Greek police (αστυνομια)


http://www.astynomia.gr/index.php?option=ozo_content&lang=%27..%27&perform=view&id=50610&Itemid=1240&lang=

other usefull sources but little bit older

Eurostat

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/b/b7/Five_main_citizenships_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_applicants%2C_2014_%28number%2C_round ed_figures%29_YB15_III.png

EUgovermentals

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/


and because you will tell me that FRONTEX and generally EU send back the refuggees if they admit to go back,
watch the numbers, not the countries,
these are how many went back the first 4 months of 2015
total 7230 went back home the first 4 months of 2015
so EU paid Euros for arrest them, to conserve them healthy as long they stayed, and to send them back!!!
no need to watch colours, they are the countries of the admited Id

source/link

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_apelaseis.JPG

photo

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_apelaseis.JPG


NOW WATCH HOW MANY ENTERED
the same time, first 4 months of 2015
total 36 172 in the same period when 7230 went back.
no need to watch colours, they are the countries that they admit that they came from

source/link
http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_sull_yphkoothta.JPG

photo

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stories//2015/statistics15/allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_sull_yphkoothta.JPG


and I ask,
these man ask asylum not only from Greece, but from every West or EU embassy that is in Greece,
but mostly are rejected and they 'sunk' in Greece, searching an id that will overpass Soengen treaties
or new 'traffickers' that will send them to West paradise,
so my question,
should rest EU countries that do not had such problem, share the weight of Malta Greece Italy etc and accept these people, at least temporary?
for example should Poland that has not such problem accept temporary 500 000 from Italy that has more than 5 500 000 and about a comparable population?
or we call again upon Soengen treaties and let them rot there, and sunk the countries of the problem?

or we should them all to Lampedousa the Ellis island of EU?

I try to connect each photo with a link
for any kind of translation or questions, plz free to ask


ok something to understand better
source link

http://www.euro2day.gr/news/highlights/article-news/1334412/thessalonikh-sta-heria-astynomikon-29-atoma.html

text
Γενικής Αστυνομικής Διεύθυνσης Θεσσαλονίκης
οκτώ αλλοδαποί, οι οποίοι δεν κατείχαν τα απαραίτητα έγγραφα για τη νόμιμη παραμονή τους στη χώρα

translation
Police headquarters of Thessaloniki
eight foreigners that had no needed papers for legal residence, stay, existance in country,

as you see illegal immigrants were caught not in borders, but in a big city, probably had a dwell also, and nobody knows how they entered and when, and maybe from where they come from, after few days they might give correct Data of id,
as you see, it not only the ones who are caught, but also the ones who are not caught, or pass,
for the story, just an add to mention
before few days a big heroin baron dealer (not a junkie) was caught in a University assylum (all universities in Greece have police Assylum after the effort of Junda to arrest academics) sleeping in the floor among other illegal immigrants,
strange in the case, he has EU country citizenship, (no need to mention) he is wanted in EU, Europole Interpole knew he was abroad from EU (last exit from EU recorded at passport) and yet he was in EU through that process, the illegal immigration
and he was planning to go back to his country in central north Europe, by asking assylum!!!!
I mention that just for fun,

Kardu
17-05-15, 00:03
Thank you Advisor Kardu. Judging by your honesty in the past, we need to reverse your statement to be true.

Anyway, economy wasn't really an issue, or just part of it. The question was whether you emigrated there to improve your life? You just narrowed it down to economy only. Unless you were sent by company to work there, or got drunk and accidentally woke up in Spain, you were (are) like the rest of emigrants trying to improve a life, let it be economically, politically or romantically. What is surprising, that being emigrant, you treat immigrants worse than local people do.

To you as a leftist, people are interchangeable cogs: Georgian, Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Hindu, Arab are all the same.
You make no difference among those who respect the host nation, adore its culture, wish it to keep and strengthen its identity and those who come to exploit its wealth and are often hostile to its past and future.
So it's pointless to discuss this issue with you.

Still a rhetorical question: how many more should come and be accepted? As their numbers grow they gonna transform Europe into very societies they were running from in the first place...

LeBrok
17-05-15, 01:04
the numbers are low?

if we except Malta, the number are compatible with Italy per population,

NUMBERS CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED,

so this bellow can you see it?
it is only the arrested illegal immigrants, from 2006 to 2014,
I REPEAT ILLEGAL, NOT LEGAL,
watch 2008,
IT IS LIKE USA ARREST 4 500 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
OR GERMANY ARREST 1 100 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
or your favorite Poland arrest 500 000 illegal immigrants per year
,

Yetos, I tried, I really tried, to have a valid discussion with you but I can't continue this when you pull numbers from a thin air. I was googling for a while to find out about this 500 000 illegal immigrants a year in Poland, you alleged. There is no such number. It is estimating that there might be from 0.5 to 1 million illegal immigrants in Poland in total, accumulated through all the years. No way half a million comes every year! Looks like you are reading something and somehow your imagination takes off creating a parallel universe. We know you are "somewhat" incoherent in your style of writing, I can soldier through this, but please stop invent numbers.


I wouldn't be surprised if Germans or Swedes start lamenting about overwhelming immigration. Greeks don't have much of a reason yet. When I listened to you for these years, I had a mental picture in my head, that every second person in Greece is illegal immigrant.

LeBrok
17-05-15, 01:14
To you as a leftist, people are interchangeable cogs: Georgian, Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Hindu, Arab are all the same.
You make no difference among those who respect the host nation, adore its culture, wish it to keep and strengthen its identity and those who come to exploit its wealth and are often hostile to its past and future. Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen? To be honest, we don't know if you are not exploiting Spanish hospitality either. Knowing how shifty, arrogant and intolerant you are in our conversions, I wouldn't be surprised if you are not honest and true to your host country and its people. As you mentioned beforehand, by your standards of treatment of races and ethnicity, they are Spanish and you are Georgian, a different people. You don't need to be honest to some strangers, right?

Yetos
17-05-15, 01:53
Yetos, I tried, I really tried, to have a valid discussion with you but I can't continue this when you pull numbers from a thin air. I was googling for a while to find out about this 500 000 illegal immigrants a year in Poland, you alleged. There is no such number. It is estimating that there might be from 0.5 to 1 million illegal immigrants in Poland in total, accumulated through all the years. No way half a million comes every year! Looks like you are reading something and somehow your imagination takes off creating a parallel universe. We know you are "somewhat" incoherent in your style of writing, I can soldier through this, but please stop invent numbers.


I wouldn't be surprised if Germans or Swedes start lamenting about overwhelming immigration. Greeks don't have much of a reason yet. When I listened to you for these years, I had a mental picture in my head, that every second person in Greece is illegal immigrant.

Lebrok
either my English are bad, either something is wrong,
I prefer the first,

I wrote, immigration numbers in Greece per year is like

<<IT IS LIKE USA ARREST 4 500 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
OR GERMANY ARREST 1 100 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
or your favorite Poland arrest 500 000 illegal immigrants per year>>

and not Poland has 500 000 per year,



7251


ok can you see that picture now?

it is the annual arrest of illegal immigrants per year by Greek police and Frontex in Greece

numbers of years or number of quantities, do not need translation,
think that Greece has a population of 10-11 000 000 and divide to understand % per year, and per 10 years
it is more than 10% every 10 years, and we did not say about immigrants, cause Germany or France or England might have more but legaly,
we speak about ILLEGAL. and that is happening from 1990,

Kardu
17-05-15, 11:10
Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen? To be honest, we don't know if you are not exploiting Spanish hospitality either. Knowing how shifty, arrogant and intolerant you are in our conversions, I wouldn't be surprised if you are not honest and true to your host country and its people. As you mentioned beforehand, by your standards of treatment of races and ethnicity, they are Spanish and you are Georgian, a different people. You don't need to be honest to some strangers, right?

Going personal again, aren't we? With false accusations and insinuations. So cheap... But then again what else one can expect from a totalitarian leftist

Yetos
17-05-15, 13:18
Yetos, I tried, I really tried, to have a valid discussion with you but I can't continue this when you pull numbers from a thin air. I was googling for a while to find out about this 500 000 illegal immigrants a year in Poland, you alleged. There is no such number. It is estimating that there might be from 0.5 to 1 million illegal immigrants in Poland in total, accumulated through all the years. No way half a million comes every year! Looks like you are reading something and somehow your imagination takes off creating a parallel universe. We know you are "somewhat" incoherent in your style of writing, I can soldier through this, but please stop invent numbers.


I wouldn't be surprised if Germans or Swedes start lamenting about overwhelming immigration. Greeks don't have much of a reason yet. When I listened to you for these years, I had a mental picture in my head, that every second person in Greece is illegal immigrant.

again you tell me nothing,
nothing at all,
your negativity is just expressed through others,

1) Germans and Swedish who you mention not me have low unemployment, good economics, and high salaries, have lower degree of migration per year, but bigger in time, meaning better assimilation,
2) on controversary ex-East Europe Eu countries have no immigration with better economics and low unemployment but do not suffer cause they are away from burning zones,
3) either when someone is showing the moon you see the finger, either you are deaf and blind by your own will, cause fits you,
majority of illegal immigrants in Greece do not want to live in Greece, they ask assylum from other European countries or USA,
simply they sunk here, cause of schoegen treaties, but the weight is bigger, it works like Ellis island,
so in Greece live 1 800 000 illegal immigrants who ask assylum for Denmark for example,
That means Illegal immigrants are forced to live in Greece, due to the Rules of EU, something that is outrageous,
why the rest Europe does not help to carry the weight of asking assylum intruders?

anyway your ironic demand on asking numbers to be translated, your refusal to see the core of the problem, and your irrelevant extraneous compatibility with others which had, have, BUT PRODUCE the problem shows clearly who is lamment and who is hiding the dust bellow the carpet,

anyway this people want to go elsewhere, not to stay here, or Malta or southern Italy
and I believe that denying the problem is not solving it,
Besides if there is no soladarity in EU problems, why schoegen to exist?

offcourse I am not expecting something from someone in Canada,
but the late FRONTEX reports ring the bell for Hungary and Croatia !!!!

so the problem is moving,
besides who cares, EU taxes come to Malta Greece Italy to conserve and preserve these people

LeBrok
17-05-15, 16:49
Going personal again, aren't we? With false accusations and insinuations. So cheap... But then again what else one can expect from a totalitarian leftist
Telling us about your marital-ethnic preferences wasn't personal, but to state your reason for emigration is? Shifty again.

You conveniently skipped the none personal part too.
Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen?

LeBrok
17-05-15, 17:01
so in Greece live 1 800 000 illegal immigrants who ask assylum for Denmark for example,

I can't find anything to confirm this figure. Perhaps you are talking about 1.5 million of Albanians in Greece?

Kardu
17-05-15, 19:08
Telling us about your marital-ethnic preferences wasn't personal, but to state your reason for emigration is? Shifty again.

You conveniently skipped the none personal part too.
Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen?

"Marital-Ethnic preferences" referred to the topic of the thread. And there too it was you who brought the conversation on the personal level (based on snooped ip addresses) remember?

To start with tell me first why on earth Europe should accept culturally and ethnically unrelated migrants in the first place?

LeBrok
17-05-15, 19:26
"Marital-Ethnic preferences" referred to the topic of the thread. And there too it was you who brought the conversation on the personal level (based on snooped ip addresses) remember? Snooped? By Eupedia's rule you have to disclose your location. Again, in this department, you are shifty too. Makes me think that you are illegally in Spain, therefore afraid of disclosing it.


To start with tell me first why on earth Europe should accept culturally and ethnically unrelated migrants in the first place? You should know that, they accepted you, assuming you are legally there.

Vallicanus
17-05-15, 20:22
Snooped? By Eupedia's rule you have to disclose your location. Again, in this department, you are shifty too. Makes me think that you are illegally in Spain, therefore afraid of disclosing it.

You should know that, they accepted you, assuming you are legally there.

I think Kardu is ethnically and culturally closer to Europeans than Somalis or Nigerians, etc.

LeBrok
17-05-15, 21:38
I think Kardu is ethnically and culturally closer to Europeans than Somalis or Nigerians, etc. I'm not sure if he will be particularly pleased with your statement. It denotes him as not really European. Regardless where geographically they are, most Georgians see themselves as Europeans. He is very touchy on this subject, so better apologies to him quickly, if you don't want to loose a friend.

I never questioned similarities or cultural differences or polices of countries involved in immigration matter. I have my opinion on these, but it is a different issue. I only questioned Kardu's lack of compassion to emigrants (among his many discriminatory treatments of peoples) in light of himself being an immigrant. I also questioned Yeto's exaggeration of immigration problem in Greece.

Kardu
17-05-15, 22:23
Snooped? By Eupedia's rule you have to disclose your location. Again, in this department, you are shifty too. Makes me think that you are illegally in Spain, therefore afraid of disclosing it.

You should know that, they accepted you, assuming you are legally there.

As if I care what sad self-hating neotrotskyist in Canada thinks about me.
If you wanna go personal, let's go personal

Kardu
17-05-15, 22:26
I'm not sure if he will be particularly pleased with your statement. It denotes him as not really European. Regardless where geographically they are, most Georgians see themselves as Europeans. He is very touchy on this subject, so better apologies to him quickly, if you don't want to loose a friend.

I never questioned similarities or cultural differences or polices of countries involved in immigration matter. I have my opinion on these, but it is a different issue. I only questioned Kardu's lack of compassion to emigrants (among his many discriminatory treatments of peoples) in light of himself being an immigrant. I also questioned Yeto's exaggeration of immigration problem in Greece.

What matters is ancestry and shared culture, not geography. So that silly joke is not funny.

epoch
17-05-15, 22:35
I wouldn't be surprised if Germans or Swedes start lamenting about overwhelming immigration. Greeks don't have much of a reason yet. When I listened to you for these years, I had a mental picture in my head, that every second person in Greece is illegal immigrant.

and


The initial argument was that Greece have very few refuges, when compared to other European countries. Do you have other information or statistics?

When was your last visit to Greece?

LeBrok
17-05-15, 22:37
and



When was your last visit to Greece?
Are you implying that my anecdotal experience will be more valid than Greek statistics?

epoch
17-05-15, 22:38
Are you implying that my anecdotal experience will be more valid than Greek statistics?

Don't evade the question

epoch
17-05-15, 22:43
Are you implying that my anecdotal experience will be more valid than Greek statistics?

Well? When?

LeBrok
17-05-15, 22:49
Well? When?
Never.
Now don't avoid my question.

epoch
17-05-15, 23:16
Never.
Now don't avoid my question.

Ah. Never. Good. Yes, I am indeed implying that anecdotal experience will be more valid than Greek statistics. No let me put it differently. I am absolutely sure. You clearly have a tad too much confidence in *any* official Greek statistic.

LeBrok
17-05-15, 23:49
Ah. Never. Good. Yes, I am indeed implying that anecdotal experience will be more valid than Greek statistics. No let me put it differently. I am absolutely sure. You clearly have a tad too much confidence in *any* official Greek statistic.
I wish I could have a closer look, and not in a very distant future. Though I'm realizing that such personal experience will vary from city to city, city district to city district, not mentioning villages. Keeping firm numbers on immigration, especially illegal immigration is a tricky business. For that reason I wouldn't mind what official government statistics, or university published paper, say on this subject. Even the Greek ones, and even with big uncertainty.

It might be the case that Greek's biggest immigration problem is with Albanians, and not with Near Eastern folks or SSA. Albanians are Europeans and very related to Greeks, but perhaps being Muslims they are very scary to Yetos? Anyway, to learn more on this subject, I was looking for some numbers. Unfortunately I'm not able to understand them from Yetos' posts. Lost in translation and statistics are in Greek.

Yetos
18-05-15, 06:41
I wish I could have a closer look, and not in a very distant future. Though I'm realizing that such personal experience will vary from city to city, city district to city district, not mentioning villages. Keeping firm numbers on immigration, especially illegal immigration is a tricky business. For that reason I wouldn't mind what official government statistics, or university published paper, say on this subject. Even the Greek ones, and even with big uncertainty.

It might be the case that Greek's biggest immigration problem is with Albanians, and not with Near Eastern folks or SSA. Albanians are Europeans and very related to Greeks, but perhaps being Muslims they are very scary to Yetos? Anyway, to learn more on this subject, I was looking for some numbers. Unfortunately I'm not able to understand them from Yetos' posts. Lost in translation and statistics are in Greek.

the problem in Greece is not the origins, Albanians came for better money and now they leave, from 1 500 000 left only 600-800 000 after 2008 crisis,
and most Albanians today have gren/white cards, and they can come and work 3 months only with passport, due to the posiible entrance and connection with EU
most went to Massachusets Turkey and England
the problem is that Greece has immigrants, about 20 000 000 with 3rd generation in all over the world,
is having crisis, unemployment, and is accepting illegal immigrants, so the rest Europe accept legally the ones who are illegal in Greece,
I mean if in Greece exist 100 illegal and ask assylum for Greek Id and residence only 20 and the rest 80 ask for elsewhere EU that is not correct,
anyway, we get money from EU for that, but can not be continued, we do not want to be Ellis island,
refugge camps should not be only in Greece Malta and Italy, they should be all over Europe,
EU must share the weight, and not put laws that fits to some only,
Either the laws must be sink them all, either we share the Illegal immigration and build camps all over Europe, from Ireland to Lithuania

Maleth
18-05-15, 07:48
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2015-05-17/world-news/Islamic-State-militants-smuggled-to-Europe-Libyan-government-adviser-tells-BBC-6736135696

Yetos
18-05-15, 10:29
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2015-05-17/world-news/Islamic-State-militants-smuggled-to-Europe-Libyan-government-adviser-tells-BBC-6736135696

Maleth In ten years the same peoplehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/) will not admit their mistakes and they blaim Greece and Italy and Malta that created the problem,
they will not even admit that they armed the islamofasists
The revenge of Lybia Syrria Egypt etc etc will be in our lands

LeBrok
18-05-15, 16:43
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2015-05-17/world-news/Islamic-State-militants-smuggled-to-Europe-Libyan-government-adviser-tells-BBC-6736135696
And when we thought, this problem is at its worse and cannot be more complicated, life throws a curve-ball.
What to do now?

Kardu
18-05-15, 17:25
'Spain rejected on Monday an EU quota system to share the migrant burden among member states, saying it had already done more than its fair share to help asylum seekers.
Britain has opposed the quota system from the start, saying that while it will help with the humanitarian rescue mission at sea, all migrants must be taken to the nearest country for processing.
Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Slovakia have all taken a similar hardline stand, and were joined over the weekend by France.'

http://www.newsmax.com/world/europe/europe-migrants-spain-eu/2015/05/18/id/645201/

Angela
18-05-15, 17:46
'Spain rejected on Monday an EU quota system to share the migrant burden among member states, saying it had already done more than its fair share to help asylum seekers.
Britain has opposed the quota system from the start, saying that while it will help with the humanitarian rescue mission at sea, all migrants must be taken to the nearest country for processing.
Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Slovakia have all taken a similar hardline stand, and were joined over the weekend by France.'

http://www.newsmax.com/world/europe/europe-migrants-spain-eu/2015/05/18/id/645201/

So much for the EU. It's a total joke in terms of any kind of equity of treatment of the member states, and the sooner Italy recognizes it the better in my opinion.

It should pass its own legislation for dealing with the situation, determining which people will be given political or religious assylum, and returning the others and illegal "economic" immigrants which it feels it cannot absorb to their country of origin. Every country has the right to defend its own borders. It would also be far less expensive than the alternative.

Yetos
18-05-15, 19:05
So much for the EU. It's a total joke in terms of any kind of equity of treatment of the member states, and the sooner Italy recognizes it the better in my opinion.

It should pass its own legislation for dealing with the situation, determining which people will be given political or religious assylum, and returning the others and illegal "economic" immigrants which it feels it cannot absorb to their country of origin. Every country has the right to defend its own borders. It would also be far less expensive than the alternative.

do not worry it is a matter of time to see 10 000 000 green/white traveling Europe cards overpassing treaties,
they manage from (example) Pakistan to Italy, they can not manage more?
green/white card is more prosper to state than arrest and preserve

Yetos
20-05-15, 22:21
http://www.newsbeast.gr/greece/arthro/823313/anexelegti-i-katastasi-sti-mutilini/

ok it is in Greek,
what says ?
Monday and Tuesday, more than 1000 refugges pass to the island,
Tuesday more than 700 went to port police to be arrested!!!! from different directories, groups of 150-200
all had 500 E bills, something that in Greece is considered outrageous, since such banknotes are rare and never in use, the max in usage is 50 and sometimes 100 E

just in 1 night more than 1000 passed, 300 were arrested, and the rest 700 went to be arrested by their own will!!!!!

What Europe's border lines?
do they exist?

the rest are the handles and the decisions of local authorities on how should they act accomodating feeding, health care and place to sleep

Kardu
21-05-15, 13:07
"Italy said Wednesday it had arrested a Moroccan illegal immigrant suspected of involvement in a deadly attack on a Tunis museum, fuelling a row over the threat of jihadists arriving in Europe by boat."

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=71423

Yetos
21-05-15, 20:42
"Italy said Wednesday it had arrested a Moroccan illegal immigrant suspected of involvement in a deadly attack on a Tunis museum, fuelling a row over the threat of jihadists arriving in Europe by boat."

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=71423


RHIPTO officers like Neleman conclude that this immigration is produced by ISIS/DAESH
all the profits of the modern slave merchants/traffick goes to DAESH and finally to gun industry,

Yetos
27-05-15, 01:34
It seems like the EU Commision has decided
in the nexthttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#15447452) commision gathering the plan takes place
according that,
the last years illegal immigrants will stay in Greece and Italy,
but all newcomers will distribute to all EU countries according their population,

by the 4 months (Jan-Apr 2015) that gives today about 9000 illegal immigrants will transfer to Deutschland, about 830 to Hungary etc etc,
all assylum askers will distribut to EU countries, whitout the right to go abroad for a certain time, or to another country to habbit,
that means that an illegal immigrant that asked assylum in Portugal, might have to go to Latvia to livehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#17156593) more than a few years and then go to Portugal,
the one that has not relief from that is Malta, since only newcoming illegal immigrants will be shared, and not the existed ones, but Malta's immigrants soon can have Green/white card

the number of Illegal immigrants in 2014 was about 600 000 in All EU,
meaning about 1,5% at one year, and seems to raise at 2015 to more than 2%,
consideringhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#99255781) that countries that had colonies like France Britain Netherlands reach about more than 25% non native population you understand what that means


The source in Greek

http://www.zougla.gr/kosmos/article/komision-mono-tous-neous-prosfiges-8a-aforoun-i-posostosis-tis-katanomis-sta-krati-meli


in English

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/26/us-europe-migrants-eu-idUSKBN0OB1ZG20150526 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/26/us-europe-migrants-eu-idUSKBN0OB1ZG20150526)

Maleth
27-05-15, 21:43
Oh, but that is so insane. (according the Hungarian prime minister) why should Hungary host 850 when a rock in the middle of the med with 400,000 can host 20,000? So insane.

Yetos
29-05-15, 20:20
from daily mail

http://www.hrw.org/news/2015/05/28/dispatches-ugly-truth-behind-british-tourists-ruined-holidays-greece

Yetos
31-05-15, 10:03
Island of Lesvos

early at the morning

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3500296.ece/BINARY/w660/lesvos3.jpg


late by night outside portpolice station were EUROduck station is


http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3500285.ece/BINARY/w660/levsos1.jpg

1 EUROduck station needs 15-25 men and can serve max 200-220 identification of illegal immigrants,
the last days the rythm of entrance is 500-700 per day in the island
meaning that 2 more station needed and extra 40 men, and more than 1 ship to carry them to temporary devastation camps,
that cost a lot of money which not even Frontex can afford

is that the result of Arab Spring?

Maleth
17-06-15, 11:00
Renzi has plan B if EU does not come to an agreement on Burden sharing in relation to Refugees and Illegal migrants.

http://www.corriere.it/english/15_giugno_15/renzi-s-plan-b-8bb35ef2-135c-11e5-8f7b-8677cfd62f52.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

Angela
17-06-15, 16:36
Renzi has plan B if EU does not come to an agreement on Burden sharing in relation to Refugees and Illegal migrants.

http://www.corriere.it/english/15_giugno_15/renzi-s-plan-b-8bb35ef2-135c-11e5-8f7b-8677cfd62f52.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

Thanks, Maleth. Excellent...enough with being passive...that's an example of how to move the ball forward.

Vukodav
17-06-15, 17:15
Renzi has plan B if EU does not come to an agreement on Burden sharing in relation to Refugees and Illegal migrants.

http://www.corriere.it/english/15_giugno_15/renzi-s-plan-b-8bb35ef2-135c-11e5-8f7b-8677cfd62f52.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

There is nothing left. His plan B was to let all negroes cross the border with Austria/France, but it didn't work. Notice that there has been no landings of immigrants, since 11 June, when Hollande closed the border. It's obvious that these immigrants want to reach North Europe, and Italy/Greece are just a crossing station.

Maleth
17-06-15, 17:56
Thanks, Maleth. Excellent...enough with being passive...that's an example of how to move the ball forward.

Indeed.........lip service is not enough, had it for many years now...so I guess enough is enough

bicicleur
17-06-15, 18:13
Renzi has plan B if EU does not come to an agreement on Burden sharing in relation to Refugees and Illegal migrants.

http://www.corriere.it/english/15_giugno_15/renzi-s-plan-b-8bb35ef2-135c-11e5-8f7b-8677cfd62f52.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

there is now a rescue and surveilance operation in place in the Mediterranean
that was one part of the deal made in the EU
the second part of the deal is that all people picked up at sea and delivered in refugee camp should be registered and questioned
most of the refugees questioned are clearly economical refugees and can't apply for refugee status, they have to be sent back to their country of origin
the others can apply for refugee status and permit to stay in Europe ; they should be divided over the EU member states according to quotas agreed
but Italy does not fulfill the second part of the deal ; they know most refugees don't want to stay in Italy but go to countries like Germany or Sweden
Italy does not screen the refugees that arrive in boats, instead they release them and send them in illegality, so they'll leave Italy and go north
that is what is now happening at the French/Italian border and that is why the French are stopping these people
what a mess..
is Italy going to play the victim again now?

Angela
17-06-15, 19:11
there is now a rescue and surveilance operation in place in the Mediterranean
that was one part of the deal made in the EU
the second part of the deal is that all people picked up at sea and delivered in refugee camp should be registered and questioned
most of the refugees questioned are clearly economical refugees and can't apply for refugee status, they have to be sent back to their country of origin
the others can apply for refugee status and permit to stay in Europe ; they should be divided over the EU member states according to quotas agreed
but Italy does not fulfill the second part of the deal ; they know most refugees don't want to stay in Italy but go to countries like Germany or Sweden
Italy does not screen the refugees that arrive in boats, instead they release them and send them in illegality, so they'll leave Italy and go north
that is what is now happening at the French/Italian border and that is why the French are stopping these people
what a mess..
is Italy going to play the victim again now?

Keep to the facts and leave the subjective and disparaging comments out of it, if you please.

bicicleur
17-06-15, 20:30
ok, how did these illegals get to Ventemiglia and why do they all want to cross the boarder?
do you think it will bring a solution any closer?

Angela
17-06-15, 20:57
ok, how did these illegals get to Ventemiglia and why do they all want to cross the boarder?
do you think it will bring a solution any closer?

My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. I'm quite familiar with Moroccans, in particular, and their motivations are no mystery. They will, and have, happily expressed them. Many of them have relatives in France. They want to join them, as is understandable. Those that don't are still aware that the economic situation is better in northern Europe than in Italy. They're not stupid. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?

The fact that the Italian government would prefer for them to go is beside the point.

This is called "hard ball" negotiation tactics. Enough with the endless jabbering of bureaucrats. The EU is going to dither around on this as on a whole plethora of issues, drowning Europe in an endless sea of virtual paper, and solve nothing. He is saying either come up with a unified policy fair to everybody expeditiously, and put in the mechanisms for enforcement so that everybody follows the rules, or we'll enforce our own solutions and protect our own borders. The end.

No country has an obligation to open its borders to anyone.

It's what I would have done, only I would have done it a while ago; I just didn't think that Renzi had the, well, gumption to do it.

Vallicanus
17-06-15, 21:01
My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. I'm quite familiar with Moroccans, in particular, and their motivations are no mystery. They will, and have, happily expressed them. Many of them have relatives in France. They want to join them, as is understandable. Those that don't are still aware that the economic situation is better in northern Europe than in Italy. They're not stupid. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?

The fact that the Italian government would prefer for them to go is beside the point.

This is called "hard ball" negotiation tactics. Enough with the endless jabbering of bureaucrats. The EU is going to dither around on this as on a whole plethora of issues, drowning Europe in an endless sea of virtual paper, and solve nothing. He is saying either come up with a unified policy fair to everybody expeditiously, and put in the mechanisms for enforcement so that everybody follows the rules, or we'll enforce our own solutions and protect our own borders. The end.

No country has an obligation to open its borders to anyone.

It's what I would have done, only I would have done it a while ago; I just didn't think that Renzi had the, well, gumption to do it.

Most of the Africans at Ventimiglia are Horners, not Moroccans.

Yetos
17-06-15, 21:03
there is now a rescue and surveilance operation in place in the Mediterranean
that was one part of the deal made in the EU
the second part of the deal is that all peoplehttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#76349467) picked up at sea and delivered in refugee camp should be registeredhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#56392950) and questioned
most of the refugees questioned are clearly economical refugees and can't apply for refugee status, they have to be sent back to their country of origin
the others can apply for refugee status and permit to stay in Europe ; they should be divided over the EU member states according to quotas agreed
but Italy does not fulfill the second part of the deal ; they know most refugees don't want to stay in Italy but go to countries like Germany or Sweden
Italy does not screen the refugees that arrive in boats, instead they release them and send them in illegality, so they'll leave Italy and go north
that is what is now happening at the French/Italian border and that is why the French are stopping these people
what a mess..
is Italy going to play the victim again now?

that was main plan by commisioner Abramopoulos,
all had negative stance,
then the next proposal was to share the weight of after 1 jan 2015 in all Europe,
but Hungary first and then others dennied even that,

the plan open the borders was also expressed by Independent Greeks party,
and seems work,
since the annual risk analysis of frontex is giving red alert in Austria Hungary Romania

Vallicanus
17-06-15, 21:05
Many of these Horners and Sudanese are heading for Britain via Calais.

Yetos
17-06-15, 21:06
My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?




Ventimiglia is the nice little town where train borders were once among France and Italy?
I remember I had drunk a nice cafe au lait or di Latto there before 15 years

Vallicanus
17-06-15, 21:15
Renzi has done nothing to come to contact the de facto government in Tripoli, Libya. A joint Libyan-Italian agreement could stop the people smuggling through north west Libya.

It is mostly Eritreans, Somalis and Sudanese who are now entering Italy, not Moroccans or other Maghrebians.

Angela
17-06-15, 21:20
Most of the Africans at Ventimiglia are Horners, not Moroccans.

Ah, I was waiting for you, Vallicanus. The fact that the current crop is from Eritrea and Somalia somehow invalidates the fact that many Moroccans tried to make the same trip at prior periods?

More importantly, it somehow invalidates the main point?

There are not enough jobs in Italy for our own young people; in fact, we still export people. We also don't provide the kind of benefits for them as do Britain and Germany and the Scandinavian countries. Like I said, they're not stupid. They even speak quite good English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55m2I9DYL0Q

After all, we have been taken to task by the EU, Germany in particular, for being too much in deficit. We have, as a result,cut spending for social programs even if not enough for the EU, and as a result, we have put our pensioners in peril. Are we supposed to put them even more in peril in order to give northern European style welfare benefits to these poor people?

Vukodav
17-06-15, 22:48
There is no Lybian government. Almost all negroes are coming from Benghazi and other zones controlled by ISIS or Ansar Al-Sharia.

bicicleur
17-06-15, 22:53
My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. I'm quite familiar with Moroccans, in particular, and their motivations are no mystery. They will, and have, happily expressed them. Many of them have relatives in France. They want to join them, as is understandable. Those that don't are still aware that the economic situation is better in northern Europe than in Italy. They're not stupid. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?

The fact that the Italian government would prefer for them to go is beside the point.

This is called "hard ball" negotiation tactics. Enough with the endless jabbering of bureaucrats. The EU is going to dither around on this as on a whole plethora of issues, drowning Europe in an endless sea of virtual paper, and solve nothing. He is saying either come up with a unified policy fair to everybody expeditiously, and put in the mechanisms for enforcement so that everybody follows the rules, or we'll enforce our own solutions and protect our own borders. The end.

No country has an obligation to open its borders to anyone.

It's what I would have done, only I would have done it a while ago; I just didn't think that Renzi had the, well, gumption to do it.

Now we start talking. But you, the corriere della sera and Mr Renzi should tell the whole truth - though I don't expect this from journalists neither politicians
Do you realy believe that these people have relatives in France (and therefore take the boat to Italy) or that they have genuine right to stay in any European country?
They are economical immigrants attracted by European social system and they are no asset to any economy - be it the Italian or German economy.
They should be shipped back to their country of origin. And extensive search projects in the Mediterranean only stimulates more to come and makes bigger profits for criminal 'travel organisations' where thes immigrants pay their one-way ticket.
It's a hypocrit game and Mr Renzi should at least have the courage to tell the trueth. But what can you expect? He's a politician.
With an attitude like that things will have to get a lot worse before anything will be done to the problem.
Sorry, I get sick when I think of these people playing games and it's hard to stay objective.

Vallicanus
17-06-15, 23:05
There is no Lybian government. Almost all negroes are coming from Benghazi and other zones controlled by ISIS or Ansar Al-Sharia.

The crossing points to Sicily are under the Tripoli de facto government.
Renzi needs to do a deal like Berlusconi did with Ghadaffi.

Vallicanus
17-06-15, 23:24
There is no Lybian government. Almost all negroes are coming from Benghazi and other zones controlled by ISIS or Ansar Al-Sharia.

Most Africans travel to Sicily from Garibouli east of Tripoli while Africans and others leave Benghazi for Malta more than Italy.

Syrians cross from Zuwara west of Tripoli to Sicily but they usually aim for Germany or Sweden.

Vallicanus
17-06-15, 23:30
Ah, I was waiting for you, Vallicanus. The fact that the current crop is from Eritrea and Somalia somehow invalidates the fact that many Moroccans tried to make the same trip at prior periods?

More importantly, it somehow invalidates the main point?

There are not enough jobs in Italy for our own young people; in fact, we still export people. We also don't provide the kind of benefits for them as do Britain and Germany and the Scandinavian countries. Like I said, they're not stupid. They even speak quite good English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55m2I9DYL0Q

After all, we have been taken to task by the EU, Germany in particular, for being too much in deficit. We have, as a result,cut spending for social programs even if not enough for the EU, and as a result, we have put our pensioners in peril. Are we supposed to put them even more in peril in order to give northern European style welfare benefits to these poor people?

Angela, the main point is that Renzi,a strutting peacock, has failed Italy through not linking up to de facto rulers in Tripoli.

bicicleur
17-06-15, 23:31
After all, we have been taken to task by the EU, Germany in particular, for being too much in deficit. We have, as a result,cut spending for social programs even if not enough for the EU, and as a result, we have put our pensioners in peril. Are we supposed to put them even more in peril in order to give northern European style welfare benefits to these poor people?

here you go again Angela, it is as if EU brought Italian pensions in peril
it is Italian politicians who made large gouvernment debts making it more and more dificult to sustain social welfare
mind you it is not a typical Italian disease - many countries have it

Angela
17-06-15, 23:53
Now we start talking. But you, the corriere della sera and Mr Renzi should tell the whole truth - though I don't expect this from journalists neither politicians
Do you realy believe that these people have relatives in France (and therefore take the boat to Italy) or that they have genuine right to stay in any European country?
They are economical immigrants attracted by European social system and they are no asset to any economy - be it the Italian or German economy.
They should be shipped back to their country of origin. And extensive search projects in the Mediterranean only stimulates more to come and makes bigger profits for criminal 'travel organisations' where thes immigrants pay their one-way ticket.
It's a hypocrit game and Mr Renzi should at least have the courage to tell the trueth. But what can you expect? He's a politician.
With an attitude like that things will have to get a lot worse before anything will be done to the problem.
Sorry, I get sick when I think of these people playing games and it's hard to stay objective.


Yes, a good number of North Africans, in particular, have relatives in France and would prefer to join them. That doesn't mean the overarching motivation isn't economic. It's just that when you want to start over in a strange country, relatives can ease the transition. That's why immigrants from one village near Benevento have provided the vast majority of the ancestors of the Italian Americans in a small suburban town near me. This is a common narrative. It's how it works.

They land in Italy, or capsize near Italy (and Malta) because it's CLOSEST. You think they can make it to France (sorry, the wind and sea currents are against), or even more ridiculously though Gibraltar and up to Britain and Germany and Scandinavia in those damn death traps?

Did you read the article? Renzi is proposing to direct Italian registered ships and Italian navy ships which pick these people up to deliver them back to their home countries or the port of departure. Non Italian ships carrying them would be denied entry to Italian ports.

Do I think he will really do that? I don't know, but that's how it's done in the real world during hard ball negotiations, whether commercial, legal or diplomatic.

Also, Renzi's proposals seem rather draconian to me. But perhaps your complaint is that he isn't going far enough? I forgot, you said you want everybody to watch them drown, men, women, children, old and young, didn't you?

You indeed seem to be having difficulty remaining objective, and courteous for that matter. (Yes, I saw it.)

I suggest a glass of wine and some relaxing music.

bicicleur
18-06-15, 00:38
Yes, a good number of North Africans, in particular, have relatives in France and would prefer to join them. That doesn't mean the overarching motivation isn't economic. It's just that when you want to start over in a strange country, relatives can ease the transition. That's why immigrants from one village near Benevento have provided the vast majority of the ancestors of the Italian Americans in a small suburban town near me. This is a common narrative. It's how it works.

They land in Italy, or capsize near Italy (and Malta) because it's CLOSEST. You think they can make it to France (sorry, the wind and sea currents are against), or even more ridiculously though Gibraltar and up to Britain and Germany and Scandinavia in those damn death traps?

Did you read the article? Renzi is proposing to direct Italian registered ships and Italian navy ships which pick these people up to deliver them back to their home countries or the port of departure. Non Italian ships carrying them would be denied entry to Italian ports.

Do I think he will really do that? I don't know, but that's how it's done in the real world during hard ball negotiations, whether commercial, legal or diplomatic.

Also, Renzi's proposals seem rather draconian to me. But perhaps your complaint is that he isn't going far enough? I forgot, you said you want everybody to watch them drown, men, women, children, old and young, didn't you?

You indeed seem to be having difficulty remaining objective, and courteous for that matter. (Yes, I saw it.)

I suggest a glass of wine and some relaxing music.

You told you know Morroccans, I know them too. They use the word 'family' in a very broad sense if it suits them. If it benefits them they'll say the whole village is their family.
Besides, the fact of having relatives in Francewouldn't give them the right to settle there too. If they would have the right they would simply have taken the train to France.
And I never said they should they should let anybody drawn, why are you telling this?
I said they should rescue them and drop them again on the African coast where they came from. If they would do so for a couple of weeks, nobody would drown in the Mediterranean any more.
And if Renzi said he would do so, then he should. But he should not release them and send them to France or Germany.
But you call that negotiation. Well the French stopping them at Ventemiglia are negotiating too. In the mean time the situation is sickening more and more.

Maleth
18-06-15, 03:12
Hungary to build a fence to keep migrants out

http://www.euronews.com/2015/06/17/hungary-to-close-serbian-border-with-anti-migrant-fence/

Yetos
18-06-15, 04:48
truth is that most Syrrians and ex-Iraq want to go to France,
and most Pakistanis and Afganis want to go to England,

there was a riot yesterday at Lesbos island and a fight amont 300 from Syrria and Iraq and 200 from Pakistan and Afganistan

http://www.iefimerida.gr/news/212428/lesvos-viaia-epeisodia-oi-metanastes-ekanan-diadilosi-eikones


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKvEjhMp9gY

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 09:16
truth is that most Syrrians and ex-Iraq want to go to France,
and most Pakistanis and Afganis want to go to England,

there was a riot yesterday at Lesbos island and a fight amont 300 from Syrria and Iraq and 200 from Pakistan and Afganistan

http://www.iefimerida.gr/news/212428/lesvos-viaia-epeisodia-oi-metanastes-ekanan-diadilosi-eikones


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKvEjhMp9gY

Plenty of Syrians have family in Germany or Sweden.

Plenty of Africans are in Calais ready to sneak into England.

Vukodav
18-06-15, 09:33
The crossing points to Sicily are under the Tripoli de facto government.
Renzi needs to do a deal like Berlusconi did with Ghadaffi.


Most Africans travel to Sicily from Garibouli east of Tripoli while Africans and others leave Benghazi for Malta more than Italy.

Syrians cross from Zuwara west of Tripoli to Sicily but they usually aim for Germany or Sweden.

Which film have you seen? Tripoli is controlled by Islamists, as all of Lybia, excluding for Tobruk (controlled by a fake democracy-military dictatorship).

Most Negroes are departing from ISIS controlled areas.

http://i.imgur.com/ACP9M2p.png

Vukodav
18-06-15, 09:35
Plenty of Syrians have family in Germany or Sweden.

Plenty of Africans are in Calais ready to sneak into England.

Syrians, Kurds and Assyrians want to go to Germany and France.
Negroes want to go to Scandinavia and Finland.
Pakistanis and Afghanis are going to UK-Netherlands-Ireland.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 09:40
Which film have you seen? Tripoli is controlled by Islamists, as all of Lybia, excluding for Tobruk (controlled by a fake democracy-military dictatorship).

Most Negroes are departing from ISIS controlled areas.

http://i.imgur.com/ACP9M2p.png


The Tripoli government is Islamist, not Isis. There are currently 4 Libyan patrol boats under repair in SICILY.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 09:44
Syrians, Kurds and Assyrians want to go to Germany and France.
Negroes want to go to Scandinavia and Finland.
Pakistanis and Afghanis are going to UK-Netherlands-Ireland.

Really?

Britain has ALL these groups in abundance

Vukodav
18-06-15, 09:54
The Tripoli government is Islamist, not Isis. There are currently 4 Libyan patrol boats under repair in SICILY.

Tripoli Islamist and ISIS are the same bunch with different names.

Quite off topic but Hungary has begun building a fence along its entire border with Serbia to halt the flow of illegal migrants. In the last 2 years, about 100.000 illegals (mostly Syrians, Iraqis and Afghanis) have lodged asylum requests in Hungary .

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/448727/Hungary-closes-border-builds-fence-keep-out-refugees-migrants

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 10:31
If people in Europe think Islamist Tripoli is the same as Isis then I can see why the EU is clueless about stopping the migration. Engage with Tripoli or just accept that African migration is an open tap.

Vukodav
18-06-15, 10:40
If people think... they are the same bunch with the same mindset. Negroes will keep coming untill the EU step in and bomb those savages to the stone age.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 11:05
If people think... they are the same bunch with the same mindset. Negroes will keep coming untill the EU step in and bomb those savages to the stone age.

The EU would not do that even if it could. (It can't. Without American bases western Europe would be under the Russians).

Vukodav
18-06-15, 11:31
The Lybian Islamist/tribal militias are ten times weaker than Gheddafi. The UK, France and Italy only need to put an embargo and bomb their armed force, and let the Egyptians take care of them.

After that they should help Greece and Bulgaria build a 8 m tall fence on the border with Turkey.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 11:38
Did you not write that the Tripoli Islamists are just like ISIS ie just as strong?

The EU would need outside help to wage war since it a complete military joke.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 11:40
Every nation state is ON ITS OWN. So much for a united Europe.

Vukodav
18-06-15, 13:53
Did you not write that the Tripoli Islamists are just like ISIS ie just as strong?

The EU would need outside help to wage war since it a complete military joke.

ISIS is a joke. The NATO would take care of them in 2 weeks, if they wished.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 14:56
Really?
Remind me... how long ISIS has been thumbing its nose at the super-military West?

Yetos
18-06-15, 17:19
Plenty of Syrians have family in Germany or Sweden.

Plenty of Africans are in Calais ready to sneak into England.

Syrrians want to go to France, by the last post I read France already gives assylum to Syyrians, since they have at least 1 cousin, and 200 left already for France,
Iraqis the same, Lebenese the same
Pakistanis and Afganis want to go England, they speak so good English that I am ashamed sometime for my English
Kurds and Turks love Deutschland and Netherlands, the biggest Turkish city after CON/polis is Berlin

about Africans, Greece is not favorite spot on their road, Italy is,


about these 300 +200 is just the ultimate number that EUrodock can serve

Yetos
18-06-15, 17:21
ISIS is a joke. The NATO would take care of them in 2 weeks, if they wished.

NATO created them

Angela
18-06-15, 17:31
Syrrians want to go to France, by the last post I read France already gives assylum to Syyrians, since they have at least 1 cousin, and 200 left already for France,
Iraqis the same, Lebenese the same
Pakistanis and Afganis want to go England, they speak so good English that I am ashamed sometime for my English
Kurds and Turks love Deutschland and Netherlands, the biggest Turkish city after CON/polis is Berlin

about Africans, Greece is not favorite spot on their road, Italy is

Well, the video I posted is from a couple of days ago, and they don't seem to want to stay either. The Lebanese and Syrians have always been Francophiles, so no surprise there.

By the way, Yetos, you're right...Ventimiglia was indeed a lovely little town...great food too. If you ever go back, have the ravioli alla genovese. An American friend of mine insisted on having three large servings because he was so enamored of them, and on top of the rest of the meal, the wine, and the sun, he almost passed out. I thought he was having a heart attack! You have to pace yourself no matter how good something is...:)

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 20:03
Syrrians want to go to France, by the last post I read France already gives assylum to Syyrians, since they have at least 1 cousin, and 200 left already for France,
Iraqis the same, Lebenese the same
Pakistanis and Afganis want to go England, they speak so good English that I am ashamed sometime for my English
Kurds and Turks love Deutschland and Netherlands, the biggest Turkish city after CON/polis is Berlin

about Africans, Greece is not favorite spot on their road, Italy is,


about these 300 +200 is just the ultimate number that EUrodock can serve

I live in Britain so I know many Africans are heading here often hidden in lorries.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 20:07
There are nearly 120,000 Syrians in Germany.

Vukodav
18-06-15, 20:38
Syrrians want to go to France, by the last post I read France already gives assylum to Syyrians, since they have at least 1 cousin, and 200 left already for France,
Iraqis the same, Lebenese the same
Pakistanis and Afganis want to go England, they speak so good English that I am ashamed sometime for my English
Kurds and Turks love Deutschland and Netherlands, the biggest Turkish city after CON/polis is Berlin

about Africans, Greece is not favorite spot on their road, Italy is,


about these 300 +200 is just the ultimate number that EUrodock can serve
Trust me. Germany, Sweden and Netherlands also get their own share of Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis,... all Negroes who land in Italy end up in France or UK in 1-2 weeks. In the UK they are the main invaders alongside Afghanis, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis coming from the Balkans.

Vallicanus
18-06-15, 20:52
Trust me. Germany, Sweden and Netherlands also get their own share of Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis,... all Negroes who land in Italy end up in France or UK in 1-2 weeks. In the UK they are the main invaders alongside Afghanis, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis coming from the Balkans.

Pretty good summary of reality there.

Yetos
19-06-15, 21:35
Some numbers of what is happening in Greece,

the money for refugges given by organisations EU etc are running low and will be saved at end of June or first days of July,
meaning that unknown population will starve or reach the survive-life limits,

no interest by UN organizations and committee

by the return back programs financed by Greece and EU
2009 1097 people went back to their homes
2010 3200 people went back
2011 8046
2012 7408
2013 5500

from 55 000 illegal immigrants who enter Greece from 1 January 2015
only 3,5% wants to stay in Greece (ask Assylum from Greece)
meaning less than 2000 / 55000 ant to stay here!!!!!!

source
http://www.newsbeast.gr/greece/arthro/1846715/exantlounte-ta-chrimata-gia-ti-stirixi-ton-prosfigon

Kardu
20-06-15, 16:07
The present crisis will inevitably lead to abolition of the current version of welfare state in Europe, and rightly so. It's long overdue.

Kardu
04-07-15, 13:40
"Up to 150 migrants reportedly try to storm the French side of the tunnel, causing further disruption and delays."

http://news.sky.com/story/1513113/migrants-try-to-enter-channel-tunnel

Kardu
19-07-15, 21:23
"The scenes on the outskirts of Rome match similar protests held on Wednesday and Thursday (http://www.thelocal.it/20150717/angry-treviso-homeowners-burn-migrants-furniture) in a suburb of Treviso, and suggests that animosity towards refugees is spreading as numbers rise."

http://www.thelocal.it/20150717/rome-rivolts-against-migrants

Yetos
20-07-15, 21:55
Some strange phenomena attracted Greek secret services, and today more EU agents in Lesvos island,
among the 3280 that 'sunk' and 'saved' like Robinson Crouseau, the last 15 days they found ISIS and TALIBAN terrorists,

to be exactly,
2 Afgani women and 1 man with fake Bulgarian passports try to fly straight to Berlin, 2 days after their illegal entrance, and their long way from Afganistan to Europe.
the passports were given by an Iranian who has a corporation in Athens, but lives and is citizen of Berlin, although he came with previous group of illegal immigrants from Turkey and did not wanted to move to Athens,
anyway Interpol identify the man, and the island is 'sinking' by secret services agents.

Yetos
10-08-15, 20:32
Official numbers given by Συνοροφυλακη (border police and immigration offices)


http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3611421.ece/BINARY/w660/met1.jpg


the blue is the illegal immigrants arrest,
the red is the 'traffickers' arrested
the 2015 is the first 7 months,
the number is expected to raise more reaching 250 000 this year and more than half a million nexthttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#11091577) year, with Turkey-PKK strangle
until 2018 some considerhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#32548171) 3 000 000 will enter EU through Greece,
Frontex is collapsing, so Greek Tourism, since for every 4 Tourist there is one Illegal immigrant,
strange massive edition of fake pappers (passports) has been detected, reaching more than 1000 in the hands of illegal immigrants, which seems that is more organised than we think.
anyway total of 150 000 is at organised camps,
new camps all over the land that can hold 300 000, but it is impossible inside the crisis to create quality recidence for that number,
and the nerves of all are in electric field,
like yesterday in Kos island where riots happened with police and immigrants who wanted to go to Athens, before even pappers given to them,
situation is not good,
but seems will become worse,

Sile
10-08-15, 21:22
there is talk that some italian regions are using these migrants as "free" manual labour to clean the road side and coastal areas, weeding , etc for no extra pay as they are already paid from the italian Government ............seems like a very good idea to me.

Kardu
11-08-15, 19:28
A while ago some here fervently argued that so called 'no go' areas in European cities are a myth invented by bigots.
Here is a recent police report from Germany refuting SJWs deliberate or ignorant lie.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/nordrhein-westfalen-polizei-warnt-vor-rechtsfreien-raeumen-a-1045222.html

Yetos
11-08-15, 20:56
Guys

situation is more serious than funny,

at Kalymnos island farmers and locals used TNT dynamites to stop immigrants running their fields,
at another island all fisherman use guns to protect their their fishing boat from stealing,
at Kos island police special forces moved rapidly with C-130
until now we have 2 attacks at police stations with EuroDocks
all East Aegan lose 30% of their touristic income,
the last industry lefthttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#467712) to Greece,

FRONTEX INSTEAD OF SENDING EURODOCK to GREECE, SEND THEM TO HUNGARY!!!!!!

the video is today at Kos island,

https:/ wwwhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#34370016).youtube.com/watch?v=aeJIAj8KyNw

it seems the situation is getting more serious, than EU expected,

At Athens they ask for airconditioning tents!!!!!

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3612493.ece/BINARY/w660/kvs.jpg


http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3612540.ece/BINARY/w660/kos.jpg


they gave them the stadium and oragnised parks with WC
but they prefer central streets

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3612566.ece/BINARY/w660/kos2.jpg



for first time police arreested 153 illegal immigrants hundrends k,m from East Aegean islands at central Makedonia,
http://www.newsnowgr.com/article/843205/thessaloniki-153-prosfyges-kai-metanastes-vrethikan-egkataleleimmenoi-se-dyo-simeia.html


anyway from another view

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zIBLx9JP4o

Sile
11-08-15, 21:16
Guys

situation is more serious than funny,

at Kalymnos island farmers and locals used TNT dynamites to stop immigrants running their fields,
at another island all fisherman use guns to protect their their fishing boat from stealing,
at Kos island police special forces moved rapidly with C-130
until now we have 2 attacks at police stations with EuroDocks
all East Aegan lose 30% of their touristic income,
the last industry left to Greece,

FRONTEX INSTEAD OF SENDING EURODOCK to GREECE, SEND THEM TO HUNGARY!!!!!!

the video is today at Kos island,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeJIAj8KyNw

it seems the situation is getting more serious, than EU expected,

At Athens they ask for airconditioning tents!!!!!

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3612493.ece/BINARY/w660/kvs.jpg


http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3612540.ece/BINARY/w660/kos.jpg


they gave them the stadium and oragnised parks with WC
but they prefer central streets

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/article3612566.ece/BINARY/w660/kos2.jpg

they need to be deported back to turkey

Yetos
11-08-15, 21:31
they need to be deported back to turkey


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zIBLx9JP4o

I think they want to go to Europa as woman say, !!!!!!
they think luxury appartments wait them, and they find work easy.


anyway the problem is that a Eurodock can serve max 200 person for papers, and needs more than 10-25 people to run it,

and they come with an averege quantity of 600-1200 per Eurodock,

THE TRAFFICKERS EVEN KNOW AND DISTRIBUTE THE IMMIGRANTS ACCORDING EFFICIENCY AND POSITION OF EURODOCK !!!!

Yetos
11-08-15, 21:43
the bellow is from the new temporary camp, build outside Athens until 'pappers' given,
every person needs 2-3 days to get pappers, and can not leave country, if not accepted by another country from EU, according EUtreaties, unless a certain timeline pass,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=18&amp;v=b0WuuAywbYw

there are many like this, other better, other worse,
and while Greece is building camps for refugges
Hungary is building border walls to prevent them enter Europe,
it seems for prime minister of Hungary, Balkans are OBRORA, and he is EYROPA

Yetos
25-08-15, 15:40
told ya guys
this not going to stop,

until today FYROM accepted 3000 for 3 days per day, if had EURODOCKuments,
but the number waiting got big, the list is over 17 000


this is at the borders Greece to SlavoMakedonia,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=42&amp;v=2hK6dTbWc_s


another video with some English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQzJLXKLu98

Kardu
26-08-15, 12:07
told ya guys
this not going to stop,

until today FYROM accepted 3000 for 3 days per day, if had EURODOCKuments,
but the number waiting got big, the list is over 17 000


this is at the borders Greece to SlavoMakedonia,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=42&amp;v=2hK6dTbWc_s


another video with some English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQzJLXKLu98

Let many more come! This sudden influx will cause a chain reaction.
"Can't you hear, the thunder roaring?!"

LeBrok
26-08-15, 17:07
Let many more come! This sudden influx will cause a chain reaction.
"Can't you hear, the thunder roaring?!"
Stop demonizing and being so freakishly scared. "Scary Syrians are coming, they will eat your children..."

We are looking at army of cheap labour and customers that need everything to buy. Most of them are educated, determent, hard working and family loving people. If anything it is a gain for Europe.

Kardu
26-08-15, 20:41
Stop demonizing and being so freakishly scared. "Scary Syrians are coming, they will eat your children..."

We are looking at army of cheap labour and customers that need everything to buy. Most of them are educated, determent, hard working and family loving people. If anything it is a gain for Europe.

haha, it's you who should be scared for what is to come! I am delighted! :)

Haven't I said, let many more come!?

Kardu
26-08-15, 20:46
Stop demonizing and being so freakishly scared. "Scary Syrians are coming, they will eat your children..."

We are looking at army of cheap labour and customers that need everything to buy. Most of them are educated, determent, hard working and family loving people. If anything it is a gain for Europe.

And what demonizing? Where do you see it? Are not you tired of cheap, false accusations? (well i guess not..)

Yetos
26-08-15, 21:13
Stop demonizing and being so freakishly scared. "Scary Syrians are coming, they will eat your children..."

We are looking at armyhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#83273816) of cheap labour and customers that need everything to buy. Most of them are educated, determent, hard working and family loving people. If anything it is a gain for Europe.


I do not think he does so much
look

Hungary what is building, 177 km

http://www.protothema.gr/files/1/2015/08/19/ouggaria-fraxtis-ena%20%281%29.jpg



http://www.protothema.gr/files/1/2015/08/19/ouggaria-fraxtis-ena%20%283%29.jpg


and what happened today

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rJlPp8YltMM/Vd2yBU8EoDI/AAAAAAAAjB4/FuUJaixZxaA/s1600/suroi-prosfuges-sta-sunora-ouggarias-serbias.jpg


already 400 passed the borders with Hungary, and big 'happenings' near the borders of Hungary with Serbia at a place/town called Rozke or like that,
it is estimated that from Greece every day leave more than they come, meaning until Poseidonion month will pass in central Europe more than 2 millions, and unknown number from Bulgaria and Romania,
since that path is the more expensive and well hiden,

' and the world will given to thy as a ready done fruit'


cause I still wonder, why WEST and Bankers do not help these people in their own lands,
and want them to come to Europe?
cause the one who cares, could create safety zones in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Nigeria etc etc,
but no, some want them in Europe, who and why? I can not answer,

Kardu
26-08-15, 22:36
Yetos, this was "predicted" already in 70-s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints

LeBrok
27-08-15, 03:04
And what demonizing? Where do you see it? Are not you tired of cheap, false accusations? (well i guess not..)
So what thunder and chain reaction you are talking about?

LeBrok
27-08-15, 03:08
Yetos, this was "predicted" already in 70-s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints
Lol, you just hate West and you want it's destruction. How is your work and living in the West going now? Ripping all the benefits while spitting on it?!
In some other thread we already figured out your hypocrisy.

Kardu
27-08-15, 03:38
Lol, you just hate West and you want it's destruction. How is your work and living in the West going now? Ripping all the benefits while spitting on it?!
In some other thread we already figured out your hypocrisy.

Again a cheap trick of equating liberalism and the West. The West is a hostage of this alien ideology which is slowly killing it..

Ah and you like to speak in plural don't you? Probably It gives you some illusioanry psychological support that you are not alone :)

Kardu
27-08-15, 03:39
So what thunder and chain reaction you are talking about?

Let more of them come and you will see

Boreas
27-08-15, 13:37
The only solution is global equality, other wise this always happen.

and Host countries become more aggressive

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/greek-migrant-boats-attacked_55cbabf1e4b0898c488664e6

Kardu
27-08-15, 14:20
The only solution is global equality, other wise this always happen.

and Host countries become more aggressive

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/greek-migrant-boats-attacked_55cbabf1e4b0898c488664e6

What does 'global equality' mean exactly?

Boreas
27-08-15, 15:16
What does 'global equality' mean exactly?

Filling the meaning of virtual terms always a bit difficult.

For example, having fresh water can be one criteria etc.

Kardu
27-08-15, 16:17
Filling the meaning of virtual terms always a bit difficult.

For example, having fresh water can be one criteria etc.

And how are you going to supply the planet with fresh water everywhere?

LeBrok
27-08-15, 16:39
Again a cheap trick of equating liberalism and the West. The West is a hostage of this alien ideology which is slowly killing it..

Ah and you like to speak in plural don't you? Probably It gives you some illusioanry psychological support that you are not alone :)
How all of it changes the fact about you being a hypocrite? You hate the culture but you love the stuff.
How are other countries with old traditions and old way of thinking doing? Right. You prefer to live in the rotten West. What amazes me is that even the real life can't teach you what works and what doesn't.

LeBrok
27-08-15, 16:42
Let more of them come and you will seeWoo, so cryptic, I'm scared lol. I just think you are lazy, because to explain something takes much more writing.

Kardu
27-08-15, 17:56
How all of it changes the fact about you being a hypocrite? You hate the culture but you love the stuff.
How are other countries with old traditions and old way of thinking doing? Right. You prefer to live in the rotten West. What amazes me is that even the real life can't teach you what works and what doesn't.

You are reducing all Western culture to rotten idieology of Liberalism?! :)

Kardu
27-08-15, 17:59
Woo, so cryptic, I'm scared lol. I just think you are lazy, because to explain something takes much more writing.

:D I know I will have a good laugh with your replies every time.

Well Yetos has already posted some photos and videos of what is already happening. Try for a second to take off your pink sunglasses and make an effort to think about what will happen when the flow of the migrants gets even stronger.
I am sure you can do it!

Yetos
27-08-15, 20:27
Filling the meaning of virtual terms always a bit difficult.

For example, having fresh water can be one criteria etc.

that is a good question,
fresh water, and poluted for all?
or poluted water and fresh air for all?
I mean the rich will turn to poverty to become equal?
or the poor will become richer ?


besides, sorry,
but global equality, reminds me Bolseviks, or 3rd international, don't you think?

LeBrok
28-08-15, 02:20
You are reducing all Western culture to rotten idieology of Liberalism?! :)
You can always go back to your beloved, backward and very traditional Georgia, where bride kidnapping is very popular. I'm sure you'll be happy there, and will stop being a hypocrite.

LeBrok
28-08-15, 02:22
:D I know I will have a good laugh with your replies every time.

Well Yetos has already posted some photos and videos of what is already happening. Try for a second to take off your pink sunglasses and make an effort to think about what will happen when the flow of the migrants gets even stronger.
I am sure you can do it! Free world is only afraid of emigrants like you. You don't fit the liberal free West, go back home to your conservative cave in Georgia.

Kardu
28-08-15, 08:09
You can always go back to your beloved, backward and very traditional Georgia, where bride kidnapping is very popular. I'm sure you'll be happy there, and will stop being a hypocrite.

Hhehe, bigot is showing his real colors again ;)
Georgia's government is also hijacked by your ideological brethren for quite some time. You know everything, how did you miss it???

Kardu
28-08-15, 08:10
Free world is only afraid of emigrants like you. You don't fit the liberal free West, go back home to your conservative cave in Georgia.

Relax, bigot, be cool :D

Kardu
28-08-15, 10:50
You can always go back to your beloved, backward and very traditional Georgia, where bride kidnapping is very popular. I'm sure you'll be happy there, and will stop being a hypocrite.

And as usual you are dodging an uncomfortable question, engaging in ad hominem attacks and insults, cowardly hiding behind the "power" of a moderator.
But this low behaviour just amuses me, you seem to confirm all stereorypes :)

Yetos
29-08-15, 22:15
it seems like the 'march' has no end

1) from Austria

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/kosmos/news/article3636916.ece/BINARY/w660/ekso.jpg


this is the second truck this week,
in the first 71 person were abandonded dead in a track platform at a road parking,

seems like Business is good in trafficking illegal immigrants,
and although immigrants did nothing to me, and must admit I have both sympathy and anger for them,
I hate traffickers,
THEY SHOULD BE HANGED IN PUBLIC FOR ULTIMATE USAGE OF HUMAN BEINGS AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.


2. ΣΥΜΗ ΤΗΛΟΣ island (syme/telos)

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/eglima/article3636976.ece/BINARY/w660/limeniko.jpg


the owners of high luxury and expensive boat find it prosperous to use it as a bus,
and when coast guard spoted them they shoot with armyhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/#82593272)/Nato guns cal 7.46 the police boat,
finally they where areested but a 17 year old immigrant had been accidently shot.

price has raised to 2,5- 3000 E per person to cross few km of sea water,
while normal tickets cost 10-200 E according distance and sealline.


strange but the boat was under German flag, crew were Ukrainians, and still not found owners and startin point of cruising.
I wonder what else,

big money, fresh meat for slave merchants

Boreas
06-09-15, 12:05
that is a good question,
fresh water, and poluted for all?
or poluted water and fresh air for all?
I mean the rich will turn to poverty to become equal?
or the poor will become richer ?

besides, sorry,
but global equality, reminds me Bolseviks, or 3rd international, don't you think?

Sorry but I don't get it. Example what is the wrong to wish that all children have a basic education, instead of all Greek children.

bicicleur
06-09-15, 13:49
You can always go back to your beloved, backward and very traditional Georgia, where bride kidnapping is very popular. I'm sure you'll be happy there, and will stop being a hypocrite.

I think you're confusing Georgia with Chechnya

Yetos
06-09-15, 17:40
Sorry but I don't get it. Example what is the wrong to wish that all children have a basic education, instead of all Greek children.

it has nothing to do with education,
but industrialism

Yetos
06-09-15, 20:02
Anyway the tragedy of immigrants is continued,
and neither Sunnites Imams neither Shiites Imams show a strong will to stop it,
and in political case, nobody wants a piece there,
and DAESH is fully armed and keeps getting help!!!!!!!

a 60 meter ship was caught south of Crete, at international waters, carrying only guns and ammunition for LIBYA!!!!

http://www.candianews.gr/2015/09/02/dite-tis-protes-fotografies-me-ta-opla-apo-to-plio-pou-piastike-stin-ierapetra-tha-exoplizan-ena-strato/


and as for immigrants,

seems like they are in kind of tribal war,
at Mytilene, Lesvos island the situation is extremely danger to have slains among Syrrians Afganis and Arabs,
http://www.newsit.gr/topikes-eidhseis/Mytilini-Nea-epeisodia-kai-agrio-ksylo-metaksy-metanaston-astynomikon-Egklovistikan-ypalliloi-se-konteiner/428557
http://www.newsit.gr/topikes-eidhseis/Mytilini-Xaos-me-nea-epeisodia-sto-limani-Metanastes-epixeirisan-na-katalavoyn-ploio/428484
local got mad with what happened and when immigrants try to capture a luxury fast ship of the line used molotov bombs

every day 3000 are transfered free to Anthens (that is a big cost) only from the island of Mytilene
the number of illegal immigrants is about 25 000 at the island and many more are comming,
The police stop arresting since no need,
AND THE ONLY NUMBERS WE KNOW FROM NOW ON ARE FROM EURODOCKs,


Anyway, business of traffickers run good,

http://www.parapolitika.gr/sites/default/files/styles/sc_640x430/public/article/2015-09/knktatanxy531317e22bd7d.jpg?itok=z89yj5Ka

every day 1 or 2 trucks are caught carrying immigrants is special closets,
the above was a 26 human hidden pockets truck that caught in the borders of turkey,
THE PRICE IS min 3000 E per head
so 87 000 E per one pass,
and in some cases the number of pockets is bigger,
reaching 50 person,
businees run good

anyway the locals estimate that until 2016 3 000 000 will pass to Europe via Greece,
and since no arrest the numbers can not be determing of what is going on
the most possible by analysis is from for every 1 caught after July, 2 pass with out even detected,
for every 100 caught 14 have fake passports,
etc etc