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Sile
01-05-15, 20:14
CT-M168 formed 84300 ybp, TMRCA 68300 ybp
CF-P143 formed 68300 ybp, TMRCA 65700 ybp
F-M89 formed 65700 ybp, TMRCA 48200 ybp
GHIJK-M3658 formed 48200 ybp, TMRCA 48000 ybp
HIJK-M578 formed 48000 ybp, TMRCA 48000 ybp

K - (http://www.yfull.com/tree/K/)P128/PF5504 formed 46700 ybp, TMRCA 44600 ybp

K* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/K*/)
LT (http://www.yfull.com/tree/LT/) - PF5531/M2425 * L298/P326 * CTS3648/M2493, formed 44600 ybp, TMRCA 42000 ybp

L (http://www.yfull.com/tree/L/) - Y5514 , formed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 16500 ybp
T (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T/) - CTS10618 * Y3821 * PF5610., formed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 36700 ybp





The TMRCA of T ( ydna ) is 20000 years older than L ( ydna ) even though they originated together under LT ydna marker

bicicleur
02-05-15, 10:27
both L and T split right after formation, but the splitted tribes did not survive till today
36700 years ago, T* split from T1 and people from both branches survived till today
30000 years ago some T1* survived
next split was 15800 years ago

TCTS10618 * Y3821 * PF5575... 262 SNPsformed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 36700 ybp

T* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T*/)
T1 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1/)L490 * L206formed 36700 ybp, TMRCA 30000 ybp

T1* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1*/)
T1a (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1a/)PAGE78 * M70/PAGE46/PF5662formed 30000 ybp, TMRCA 15800 ybp

T1a* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1a*/)

Sile
02-05-15, 12:19
both L and T split right after formation, but the splitted tribes did not survive till today
36700 years ago, T* split from T1 and people from both branches survived till today
30000 years ago some T1* survived
next split was 15800 years ago

TCTS10618 * Y3821 * PF5575... 262 SNPsformed 42000 ybp, TMRCA 36700 ybp

T* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T*/)
T1 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1/)L490 * L206formed 36700 ybp, TMRCA 30000 ybp

T1* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1*/)
T1a (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1a/)PAGE78 * M70/PAGE46/PF5662formed 30000 ybp, TMRCA 15800 ybp

T1a* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T1a*/)







thanks

Interesting that the age of T in the Levant is 13500 years ago
- the southern Arabian peninsula 2500 years ago
- Egypt is 11000 years ago


L and its "missing" 20000 years from T would be interesting to find out

bicicleur
02-05-15, 12:54
thanks

Interesting that the age of T in the Levant is 13500 years ago
- the southern Arabian peninsula 2500 years ago
- Egypt is 11000 years ago

interesting, where did you find this info?


[/QUOTE] L and its "missing" 20000 years from T would be interesting to find out[/QUOTE]

please note, L2 and L1b are missing on the YFull Tree
L2 is European

Sile
02-05-15, 20:05
[QUOTE=bicicleur;456245]interesting, where did you find this info?


paper by Luis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/


it was 1600 years ago for the southern arabian area....so I was wrong


but since the Dulik 2011 paper has found 38% of T in

Kazakhs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhs)
from
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_language)
Kosh-Agachski Raion which is part of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosh-Agachski_Raion)the Altai Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altai_Republic), Russia...........

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)


then , somewhere around north of the himalyans seems the best fit for the break of T and L

Also - the TL union has origins in the sind valley of Kashmir ( north India )



The one issue I have for myself as per my markers is that it states..........


Possible time of origin
19,000-30,000 years BP[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184#cite_note-Mendez2011-1)


Possible place of origin
West Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Asia)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184#cite_note-Mendez2011-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184#cite_note-Underhill2001-2)


Ancestor
LT (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haplogroup_LT_%28Y-DNA%29&action=edit&redlink=1)


Descendants
T-M193 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haplogroup_T-M193_%28Y-DNA%29&action=edit&redlink=1)





Testing from 3 different companies has found I am negative for T-M193 , but I am positive for the LT marker P326

bicicleur
03-05-15, 14:20
have you been tested for T-M184 ? or L-M20 ?
I see you state your Y-DNA as CTS12108 ; where does this SNP fit in the tree ?
the Luis paper is dated 2004 and based on STR analyses, I don't think their ages are very accurate
I associate T with cattle herders
maybe they domesticated the auroch in Anatolia 10500 years ago and the zebu in India 7000 years ago
so, I think T entered Africa with cattle coming from Anatolia 8000 - 8500 years ago (just like R1b-V88 did)
you can see in the YFull tree, each of the 3 branches T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3 have expansions between 8 and 9000 years ago
and T seems to have spread very far : Africa, India, Arabia, Europe, but I don't find anything about the spread of the subclcades
do you have sources for that?

Sile
04-05-15, 08:14
have you been tested for T-M184 ? or L-M20 ?
I see you state your Y-DNA as CTS12108 ; where does this SNP fit in the tree ?
the Luis paper is dated 2004 and based on STR analyses, I don't think their ages are very accurate
I associate T with cattle herders
maybe they domesticated the auroch in Anatolia 10500 years ago and the zebu in India 7000 years ago
so, I think T entered Africa with cattle coming from Anatolia 8000 - 8500 years ago (just like R1b-V88 did)
you can see in the YFull tree, each of the 3 branches T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3 have expansions between 8 and 9000 years ago
and T seems to have spread very far : Africa, India, Arabia, Europe, but I don't find anything about the spread of the subclcades
do you have sources for that?

Ftdna and 23andme do not test for T-M184 ( well they do not give your answers for it , it is presumed ) they test for T-M70, but natgeno did and I am T-M184+ ................ftdna still did not accept this after I transferred my natgeno to them ............they state , it was not necessary to update my tree

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29626-Questions-on-my-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-T?p=450991&viewfull=1#post450991

Sile
28-06-15, 00:09
Looking through the amended Paolo Francalacci sardinian paper,
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1756-0500/8/174

I found that of all the T1a in Sardinia , only 2 where from the T1a-L131 branch, all the others where from the T1a-L208 branch L208/PAGE2 * L905formed 14900 ybp, TMRCA 8600 ybp

All where L905( apart form the L131 ones )