Facial recostruction of ancient 5900 years old Sicilian face

http://palermo.repubblica.it/cronac...nni_fa_ad_agrigento-111181791/1/?ref=search#1

Interesting. We're probably talking about a person who's mainly Neolithic mixed with minor Mesolithic?

I would not guess her as (modern) Sicilian. But I will wait for Moesan comment he knows subject better.

Maybe but there aren't dna studies so far.

arvistro said:

I would not guess her as (modern) Sicilian. But I will wait for Moesan comment he knows subject better.

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Why?is there something of atypical in her to you?i was personally surprised to the fact the she had delicate features, i would always imagine the people of that era as more Cromagnid-Berid like.
But it's only a reconstruction.

Dont take me too seriously. My brain works intuitively in this field and it lacks background to make intuition efficient.

My intuition pointed to Saami right away. But google fixed it for me, standard Saami has more Asian in their looks.

I find her quite "modern" and unexceptional looking for an Italian. Nothing "archaic" as in some of these reconstructions, although she's from around 4,000 BC?

Of course, who knows how accurate it is...I'd like to hear Moesan's take on it too as regards traditional physical anthropology.

Hauteville, I don't know why you'd expect tons of "Cro-Magnon" in her, by which I suppose you mean WHG? Sicily had been Neolithic for quite a while by this point. Gracile looks are rather a hallmark of the Neolithic, yes?

I wonder if these researchers have attempted to sequence her dna, and if they can't do it, I wonder if they've considered sending the remains to Reich and co.? I would think she would be high in EEF (and the included WHG, however much the precise amount), but it would be interesting to see if any ANE had trickled in...


In terms of modern look a likes, any ideas, anybody?

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Antonella Mansi came to mind, but her forehead is higher and her eyes aren't round. So, maybe not. Anyway, just for the fun, here are some pictures. Moesan, be kind!











Or her for someone with lighter pigmentation?

There maybe could be some similarities to the temple people from Malta. We already know the first inhabitants in Malta arrived from Sicily (before the temple builders) from the similar pottery shreds found.



http://www.timesofmalta.com/article...ace-of-a-maltese-woman-5-600-years-ago.468752

Hauteville, I don't know why you'd expect tons of "Cro-Magnon" in her, by which I suppose you mean WHG?

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Yes this, i would expect her more archaic look.
Anyway i really hope in some genetic studies on her.

Sicily is far away from all the Haak genomes. It'd be interesting to see her DNA results. She looks basic Caucasian, and I doubt there were some totally distinct Eurasians living in Sicily back then anyways. If the same EEF Neolithic farmers settled Sicily, I would expect her to be EEF-like. Before Neolithic settlers we can only guess who was living in Sicily and Italy.

Looking at Italian DNA today we can clearly see EEF and Yamna ancestry. We don't need ancient DNA to prove such people lived in Italy at the same time periods as in mainland Europe. Whether or not the EEF ancestors of Italians were like Otzei or Gok2 and whether the people who brought Yamna-ancestry were like BR1+2(from Bronze age Hungary) or Bell Beaker or Corded ware-like is unknown. That part we need ancient DNA for.

The deviation towards the Near east(not North Africa) is the only element that can't be explained by mainland aDNA. There also could be unknown elements and totally differnt people that lived in Italy during some time periods than in the mainland. The Near east-deviation must have arrived via the Mediterranean sea or maybe the Alps. When and who brought it is a mystery. North Africa, the Caucasus, and east of Iran can probably be ignored as source areas. The "Near East" in literally meaning looks like the source area.

I don't see much similarity between Malta girl and Sicilian girl reconstructions. To me eyes, eyebrows, nose, mouth look different.
The top Italian girl presented by Angela does look similar. Bottom girl has rounder head and bit different face.

to Redhaired: we DO have Meoslotihic skulls - the problem is that I 've only means of measures, and no individual measure nor feature, no geographic localization (I 'll go to search the rare data I've at hand for italian Mesolithic
concerning this reconstruction, always the same remark: the flesh parts are supposed more than checked, by force
here I don't undestand too well if they have a lower jaw or if they imagined one, and we lack a facial view and a top view of skull:
the skull seems, from side, a kind of "old mediterranean" of the French CHARLES, it's to say lower skull compared to Near-Eastern 'mediterranean', and some more proximity to Cro-Magnoids - but I can say stupid things without more views and the local South Caucasus North Mesopotamia so called 'cappadocian-mediterraneans' already had lower braincase than 'danubians' (from Central Anatolia? Y-G2?) and than Arabia 'mediterreanns' (maybe some causes as the western 'mediterraneans': more on the 'cromagnoid' side than on the 'capelloid' and 'chancelade' side?
I hope I'll be provided more crania pictures - the Mediterranea surroundings lands have a more complicated story than we are tempted to think and things became almost a puzzle about the 6000/5000 BC concerning subtypes, what don't mean the global autosomes sketch was so contrasted between diverse 'mediterranean' groups, except the ones more crossed with Mesolithic people
I cannot say more

Moesan, if you click on the link, slides 3, 9, and 14 show other views of the skull. It looks as if they had the jaw from half of the face, yes? I don't know if that will help. This is another article; it shows a plaster cast and a reconstruction sketch.
http://palermo.repubblica.it/cronaca/2015/04/04/foto/ecco_il_volto_di_sofia_miss_preistoria_e_nata_seimila_anni_fa_ad_agrigento-111181791/1/?ref=search#1


This is another article; it shows a skull cast of some sort and a reconstruction sketch of Sofia.
http://notizie.tiscali.it/regioni/s...iciliana-di-6mila-anni-fa-in-3d/55627/806283/

If I got it right the skull is from Agrigento the south of Sicily, which is the part that was inhabited by the Sicani. The Sicani are believed to be the oldest tribe (or earliest mentioned in history at least) in Sicily, although not sure when the Sicani settled in Sicily. They are believed to have arrived from the West (Iberia). I dont think there are clear dates of when Sicily was first populated. Like hautville said wouldn't it be great to have the joy to get a dna reading? It might happen some time.

arvistro said:

I don't see much similarity between Malta girl and Sicilian girl reconstructions. To me eyes, eyebrows, nose, mouth look different.
The top Italian girl presented by Angela does look similar. Bottom girl has rounder head and bit different face.

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At a closer look it does seem to have different skull bone structure especially the eyes

Yes Tucidide indicated an Iberian origins but modern historians, especially Rosa Albanese Procelli and Luigi Bernab? Brea indicate that Elymians and Sicanians were the same people divided in two tribes and with Bell beakers ancestries via Liguria.
Linguistics and archeological findings confirm this link.

Hauteville said:

Yes Tucidide indicated an Iberian origins but modern historians, especially Rosa Albanese Procelli and Luigi Bernab� Brea indicate that Elymians and Sicanians were the same people divided in two tribes and with Bell beakers ancestries via Liguria.
Linguistics and archeological findings confirm this link.

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I think that's right, but this woman dates to 4,000 BC. I tend to doubt any of these other people had yet arrived on the scene.

Angela said:

I think that's right, but this woman dates to 4,000 BC. I tend to doubt any of these other people had yet arrived on the scene.

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The historians date the arrive of Ligures (proto-Sicanians and proto-Elymians) during the iron age.
So this woman lived long before their arrival.

just a word before coming back after some more readings
I beg the pardon of Fire Haired 14 I named Redhaired: offense of great age to memory : and yet, I had not drunk my daily wine dosis!
Sorry

MOESAN said:

just a word before coming back after some more readings
I beg the pardon of Fire Haired 14 I named Redhaired: offense of great age to memory : and yet, I had not drunk my daily wine dosis!
Sorry

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He is red haired he showed us his pic once