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Harith
20-05-15, 01:00
Hello

The Arab population of North Africa comes from the Banu Hilal who lived east of Mecca and Banu Sulaym who lived south of Yathrib and settled Ifriqiyya and were installed by Moroccan dynasty in plains of Gharb, Tendrara and Haouz.

How did they do that haplogroup E1b1b either remain majority ? Is genetic Arab (J1) exist in North Africa ? If so, in what areas ?

Thank you :grin:

Goga
20-05-15, 01:09
Original Arabs are from Yemen. Yemen is neighbouring the African continent. Countries like Eritrea, Somalia etc. are neighbouring countries of Arabs.

Original Arabs were Afro-Asiatic people and are a mixture of hg. E and hg. J1. So, original Arabs were partly African and partly Southwest Asian. Folks from Eritrea, Somalia etc. are basically cousins of Arabs.

LeBrok
20-05-15, 01:33
Welcome to Eupedia Harith. It'll be interesting to figure it out. Future genetic research will answer it well. I'm guessing that they are fusion of Levantines from Near East and some tribes from Arabian Peninsula plus folks from East Africa.

Maleth
22-05-15, 10:56
Hello

The Arab population of North Africa comes from the Banu Hilal who lived east of Mecca and Banu Sulaym who lived south of Yathrib and settled Ifriqiyya and were installed by Moroccan dynasty in plains of Gharb, Tendrara and Haouz.

How did they do that haplogroup E1b1b either remain majority ? Is genetic Arab (J1) exist in North Africa ? If so, in what areas ?

Thank you :grin:

Hello Harith. Palmyra been very much in the news lately, hope you are keeping well. North Africa dominant haplogroups are the berber E-M81 (E1b1b is a very generic term) and the dominant 'Arab' J1. You might find this info helpful. I presume there is no real scientifically based record of how J1 Emigrated into North Africa but it seems that E-M81 is strongly present withing the Berbers communities that are not usually found in any great numbers outside of North Africa while J1 is very common in the Near East.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_populations_of_North_Africa

Hauteville
22-05-15, 11:25
This recent study of Sousse with 220 samples has founded 23% of J1

http://s28.postimg.org/mysdelkr1/jhg201499f1.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Look at the J1b2b1 which is the typical Arab marker afaik.

Semitic Duwa
24-05-15, 04:00
Most of the J1 in North Africa is tied to YSC234's Arabian branches, in fact E-M84 in North Africa could also have something to do with the Arab expansion.

Hauteville
24-05-15, 10:11
J1 in some parts of north African (north of Tunisia for example) was also be brought by the Phoenicians who colonized that part (especially Carthage).

Maleth
24-05-15, 11:26
Most of the J1 in North Africa is tied to YSC234's Arabian branches, in fact E-M84 in North Africa could also have something to do with the Arab expansion.

Do we know the frequencies of E-M84 in North Africa? They seem to be very minimal, but then we do not have much records on how common it is the Middle east. It is a middle eastern marker and seems like a natural companion to J1. I am inclined to believe that J1 has entered in North Africa prior to the more recent 'Arab' expansions, however if there were any J1 mass migrations in more recent events they should somehow be recorded. The percentages (J1) seem to be too great to be only a result of more recent events (migrations from Arabia proper). Just my opinion.

Maleth
24-05-15, 11:33
J1 in some parts of north African (north of Tunisia for example) was also be brought by the Phoenicians who colonized that part (especially Carthage).

Very minimal amounts I would believe. J2 seems to be a more common Phoenician Marker. Of course J1 will not be excluded but it would be very minimal for any significant reason for more J1 admixture in North Africa.

Hauteville
24-05-15, 11:58
Very minimal amounts I would believe. J2 seems to be a more common Phoenician Marker. Of course J1 will not be excluded but it would be very minimal for any significant reason for more J1 admixture in North Africa.
Probably it's true but i believe around ancient Carthage some Punic dna is survived.
Though M81 and J1 are much more common than J2 in north Africa for many reasons.

Maleth
24-05-15, 12:16
Probably it's true but i believe around ancient Carthage some Punic dna is survived.
Though M81 and J1 are much more common than J2 in north Africa for many reasons.

Some more Aboriginal Berber tribes and communities already seem to have some significant J1 in their mix. In more homogeneous with their e-m81 percentages. The J1 mix in old established Berber tribes is a good indication that J1 in North Africa is older then any recent 'Arab' expansion

Semitic Duwa
24-05-15, 17:10
Do we know the frequencies of E-M84 in North Africa? They seem to be very minimal, but then we do not have much records on how common it is the Middle east. It is a middle eastern marker and seems like a natural companion to J1. I am inclined to believe that J1 has entered in North Africa prior to the more recent 'Arab' expansions, however if there were any J1 mass migrations in more recent events they should somehow be recorded. The percentages (J1) seem to be too great to be only a result of more recent events (migrations from Arabia proper). Just my opinion.

The overwhelming majority of J1 in North Africa belongs to relatively young arabian branches of YSC234 such as BY86, L222, FGC1721, FGC2, FGC9 and so on... In other words, the bulk of J1 in North Africa came with the Arabs. Now of course there are a few exceptions here and there, a few singleton samples from Tunisia are Z2324* and L858* for instance, so we obviously can't rule out the presence of J1 prior to the Arabian expansion (Z2324 in particular since it was found in a sample from the Canary islands), nevertheless J1's presence in North Africa seems to be tied to the arrival of the Arabs for the most part.
As you said, E-M84 isn't all that common in North Africa, and since its distribution closely follows J1's I expect it to be tied to the arrival of Arabian tribes as well (I wouldn't be surprised if it peaked in specific tribes which still follow a semi-nomadic lifestyle).

Sigli
17-12-17, 06:19
Hi ! I am an Algerian and I can tell you that Familytreedna estimated the pourentge of Arabs bearinghe J1 haplogrup to between 35 and 45% . I am a J-M267 and one of the Jboor tribe . J2 is less present .

ZTD
16-06-19, 07:34
Original Arabs are from Yemen. Yemen is neighbouring the African continent. Countries like Eritrea, Somalia etc. are neighbouring countries of Arabs.

Original Arabs were Afro-Asiatic people and are a mixture of hg. E and hg. J1. So, original Arabs were partly African and partly Southwest Asian. Folks from Eritrea, Somalia etc. are basically cousins of Arabs.

Afro-Asiatic is a language with hypothetical origin and no hard evidences of its existence .. merely an observation of similarities between sahel and Arabic and other languages

as for North Africans , those whom are of Arabian (tribal Arab) descent are under J1-M267 > J-P58 , such as Awlad Na'il who live in Algerian desert and reached 77% J1, just like their cousins in Arabia !
https://tribusalgeriennes.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/capture.png

ShpataEMadhe
07-09-19, 01:18
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379148/