Egtved Girl-Bronze Age Find in Denmark

Angela

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The ancient dna of the Egtved girl found in a Bronze Age context (1400 BC) in Denmark has been analyzed.

This is the link to the paper:
http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150521/srep10431/full/srep10431.html

This is the link to the supplementary info:
http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150521/srep10431/full/srep10431.html#supplementary-information

Here is the abstract:
"Ancient human mobility at the individual level is conventionally studied by the diverse application of suitable techniques (e.g. aDNA, radiogenic strontium isotopes, as well as oxygen and lead isotopes) to either hard and/or soft tissues. However, the limited preservation of coexisting hard and soft human tissues hampers the possibilities of investigating high-resolution diachronic mobility periods in the life of a single individual. Here, we present the results of a multidisciplinary study of an exceptionally well preserved circa 3.400-year old Danish Bronze Age female find, known as the Egtved Girl. We applied biomolecular, biochemical and geochemical analyses to reconstruct her mobility and diet. We demonstrate that she originated from a place outside present day Denmark (the island of Bornholm excluded), and that she travelled back and forth over large distances during the final months of her life, while consuming a terrestrial diet with intervals of reduced protein intake. We also provide evidence that all her garments were made of non-locally produced wool. Our study advocates the huge potential of combining biomolecular and biogeochemical provenance tracer analyses to hard and soft tissues of a single ancient individual for the reconstruction of high-resolution human mobility. "

I think that about says it all from what I can see. I don't know if they didn't try or just couldn't get mtDna and things like pigmentation snps. They are saying that going by the current state of the hair she probably had light brown or blonde hair.

This isn't at all how I imagined the life of the "elite" at this late date in the Bronze Age, particularly in terms of nutrition, but I guess there's the Bronze Age and the Bronze Age; it all depends on the place and the specific culture.
 
We therefore conclude that there is minor, if any, retrievable ancient human DNA preserved in the hair sample, most likely due to the acidic pH of the burial environment, combined with years of exhibition

I guess they won't be able to get any useful DNA from her. I've heard there's suppose to be ancient DNA from Iron and Bronze age Armenia coming out in the next few weeks.
 
Well, one presumes that a "princess" could wear whatever she chose, and might even have "set" the fashion. Quite a little spike on that bronze disk she's wearing...perhaps it was worn a little lower?

Ah, off course! It's used to fend off the barbarians. How could I not see that!
 
Well, one presumes that a "princess" could wear whatever she chose, and might even have "set" the fashion. Quite a little spike on that bronze disk she's wearing...perhaps it was worn a little lower?

She was probably just trying to get attention from boys. Comfort obviously isn't reason. I bet her parents and or family were high-rank, because how could she get so rich on her own?
 
Ah, off course! It's used to fend off the barbarians. How could I not see that!

What? I don't understand. What barbarians?

I thought perhaps that having a bronze plaque with a spike on it sitting on your abdomen or a little lower might have something to do with warning off unsanctioned men? I mean, it looks like a shield, and normally women wear metal pieces around their necks or hanging from their ears or on their arms or ankles as adornments, yes?

The elaborate and stuffed codpieces of Shakespearean England being the opposite...advertising availability and prowess?

You're going to give me a complex. Do I have sexuality on the brain, or something? :)

Fire Haired14: She was probably just trying to get attention from boys. Comfort obviously isn't reason. I bet her parents and or family were high-rank, because how could she get so rich on her own?

No, I would imagine that it was rather uncomfortable to wear such a short skirt in the climate and in the surroundings. However, women will, I assure you, endure any amount of discomfort if they think it makes them more attractive...you should see the spike heels I've worn to work all my life. :)

She was obviously high status, and if the authors are correct, she was probably one of many such girls sent off to marry chiefs of other groups in order to cement alliances. Poor thing died too young.
 
What? I don't understand. What barbarians?

I thought perhaps that having a bronze plaque with a spike on it sitting on your abdomen or a little lower might have something to do with warning off unsanctioned men?

Exactly. Those barbarians I meant.

I mean, it looks like a shield, and normally women wear metal pieces around their necks or hanging from their ears or on their arms or ankles as adornments, yes?

The elaborate and stuffed codpieces of Shakespearean England being the opposite...advertising availability and prowess?

You're going to give me a complex. Do I have sexuality on the brain, or something? :)

The fault is entirely mine, as caddish "tongue in cheek" simply doesn't come across in internet fora. I do apologize.

No, I would imagine that it was rather uncomfortable to wear such a short skirt in the climate and in the surroundings. However, women will, I assure you, endure any amount of discomfort if they think it makes them more attractive...you should see the spike heels I've worn to work all my life. :)

She was obviously high status, and if the authors are correct, she was probably one of many such girls sent off to marry chiefs of other groups in order to cement alliances. Poor thing died too young.

It does connect with how Tacitus describes the Germans, as monogamous. It is also mentioned by a lot of Roman writers. Tacitus also mentions that Germanic men paid dowry for women, a thing he considered very strange. I would consider the possibility that it was connected with the practice of the morning gift

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dower
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/morning_gift

Also I am pretty sure that a far shorter skirt has been found, from North-Germany, same age.

There is also the long sturdy Huldremose skirt. It is remarkable because of the pattern, which is similar to tweed. What all this has in common? The population of Nordic Bronze has almost the same genetic make up as the current Northwest-Europeans. It is remarkable to see things I'm able to recognize [1] or know from recent history - I am able to track part of my genealogy in the 16th century due to morning gifts - popping up in the bronze age. Also, very similar behaviour in marriage was the norm for European royalty just one generation ago.

[1] Iron age: http://sciencenordic.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/620x/colour gallery 4.jpg
Today: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0150/1538/products/SJ228_grande.jpeg?v=1342215712
 
Exactly. Those barbarians I meant.



The fault is entirely mine, as caddish "tongue in cheek" simply doesn't come across in internet fora. I do apologize.



It does connect with how Tacitus describes the Germans, as monogamous. It is also mentioned by a lot of Roman writers. Tacitus also mentions that Germanic men paid dowry for women, a thing he considered very strange. I would consider the possibility that it was connected with the practice of the morning gift

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dower
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/morning_gift

Also I am pretty sure that a far shorter skirt has been found, from North-Germany, same age.

There is also the long sturdy Huldremose skirt. It is remarkable because of the pattern, which is similar to tweed. What all this has in common? The population of Nordic Bronze has almost the same genetic make up as the current Northwest-Europeans. It is remarkable to see things I'm able to recognize [1] or know from recent history - I am able to track part of my genealogy in the 16th century due to morning gifts - popping up in the bronze age. Also, very similar behaviour in marriage was the norm for European royalty just one generation ago.

[1] Iron age: http://sciencenordic.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/620x/colour gallery 4.jpg
Today: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0150/1538/products/SJ228_grande.jpeg?v=1342215712

Very interesting, Epoch.
 
Exactly. Those barbarians I meant.

Tacitus said Germans always blamed and punished women for adultery. So, if anything maybe they'd be putting those things on men. It's the opposite in America today.

Anyways, on the news today we only hear about guys raping and harassing girls. We can learn a lesson from the extreme one-sideness from fundamentalist Muslims and others: It is the woman's fault sometimes :)

Tacitus also mentions that Germanic men paid dowry for women, a thing he considered very strange.

Tacitus didn't think dowry given to women from a man was strange. I'm pretty sure that's what everyone does. He thought the ideas and symbolism beyond German dowry was strange.
 
Tacitus said Germans always blamed and punished women for adultery. So, if anything maybe they'd be putting those things on men. It's the opposite in America today. On the news we only hear about guys raping and harassing girls. We can learn a lesson from the extreme one-sideness from fundamentalist Muslims and others: It is the woman's fault sometimes :)



Tacitus didn't think dowry given to women from a man was strange. I'm pretty sure that's what everyone does. He thought the ideas and symbolism beyond German dowry was strange.

I despair of you sometimes...

Just google dowries, will you? Fathers provided the dowries for their daughters in most of Europe until very recently. Without it women often couldn't marry, and in the past that could mean a life of destitution,prostitution, you name it, or at least they would wind up marrying at the bottom end of the socio-economic system. Bride price is a different custom.

Tacitus, like a lot of ancient authors, was not a modern style historian or cultural anthropologist. He wrote these comments in order to shame his people into more virtuous behavior. He thought they had been corrupted by the Greeks. It's like the Myth of the "Noble Savage" as promulgated by Dryden, Montaigne and many others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage

I'm going to assume you didn't mean to imply that anything a woman might wear would excuse a man for raping her. Trust me on this, rape can land you in jail for twenty-five years and if she kills you in the commission of it, it can be justifiable homicide. Anyone who would think that it is excusable on any grounds whatsoever is a sociopath, in my opinion, and deserves to serve every one of those years. Anyone who goes around spouting such opinions will not only find himself celibate for the rest of his life, he will find himself unemployable and a social outcast.
 
Tacitus said Germans always blamed and punished women for adultery. So, if anything maybe they'd be putting those things on men. It's the opposite in America today.

Anyways, on the news today we only hear about guys raping and harassing girls. We can learn a lesson from the extreme one-sideness from fundamentalist Muslims and others: It is the woman's fault sometimes :)

No, he stated:

Tacitus said:
Of learning and of any secret intercourse by letters, they are all equally ignorant, men and women. Amongst a people so numerous, adultery is exceeding rare; a crime instantly punished, and the punishment left to be inflicted by the husband.



Tacitus didn't think dowry given to women from a man was strange. I'm pretty sure that's what everyone does. He thought the ideas and symbolism beyond German dowry was strange.

Tacitus said:
To the husband, the wife tenders no dowry; but the husband, to the wife.

He puts the statement that they don't give dowry to the mans family in front. In the dense way of Tacitus use of the Roman language, even for Roman standards, I'd call that a relevant remark.

Link: http://www.northvegr.org/histories and chronicles/tacitus germania in english and latin/index.html
 
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Tacitus, like a lot of ancient authors, was not a modern style historian or cultural anthropologist. He wrote these comments in order to shame his people into more virtuous behavior. He thought they had been corrupted by the Greeks. It's like the Myth of the "Noble Savage" as promulgated by Dryden, Montaigne and many others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage

There is no doubt Roman authors, and especially Tacitus, use the Germans as an example for the wicked Romans. However, since I see a number of things that keep recurring in Northwest- European areas - for a long time that wasn't the sexiest place of Europe, nor the most corrupt - I tend to think that it wasn't all myth, that there is an element of truth in that.
 
There is no doubt Roman authors, and especially Tacitus, use the Germans as an example for the wicked Romans. However, since I see a number of things that keep recurring in Northwest- European areas - for a long time that wasn't the sexiest place of Europe, nor the most corrupt - I tend to think that it wasn't all myth, that there is an element of truth in that.

I agree; there are nuggets of fact to be gleaned. It's just important to keep his purpose in mind. It is, as you're obviously aware, but others are not, perhaps the most important factor in interpreting his work.

People who aren't familiar with the concept might be interested in this...
https://www.academia.edu/603591/The_Use_of_Ethnography_In_Tacitus_Agricola_and_Germania
 
There is no doubt Roman authors, and especially Tacitus, use the Germans as an example for the wicked Romans. However, since I see a number of things that keep recurring in Northwest- European areas - for a long time that wasn't the sexiest place of Europe, nor the most corrupt - I tend to think that it wasn't all myth, that there is an element of truth in that.

That's definitely possible. Interesting, thanks for sharing. I've read a few Roman stuff, and it seems they were gave females less leadership and liberty than Germans. Could be because Romans had more complex power structure.

From the little I know the society in Beowulf is similar to the Germans from Roman times. The small elite fighting groups like the one Beowulf was apart of were big power players, and I think the samething existed 100s of years later. How do you control people and resources best in every part of the world? With intimidation and killing. It's a merciless fact of life. Although most people, especially in countries such as America, don't have to face it very much(still do sometimes) because of our laws.

Tacitus....
Very noble birth or great services rendered by the father secure for lads the rank of a chief; such lads attach themselves to men of mature strength and of long approved valour.

It is an honour as well as a source of strength to be thus always surrounded by a large body of picked youths; it is an ornament in peace and a defence in war. And not only in his own tribe but also in the neighboring states it is the renown and glory of a chief to be distinguished for the number and valour of his followers, for such a man is courted by embassies, is honoured with presents, and the very prestige of his name ofen settles a war.

Beowulf was a moral role-model for someone in one of those groups. He had something like 6 guys fighting with him!! It was made up of the very best though. I guess small fighting forces were used to deal with small-scale problems, but fighting a demon isn't a small-scale problem. Maybe that's part of the reason Germans usually lost to Rome. They weren't able to get big enough fighting forces.
 
I'm going to assume you didn't mean to imply that anything a woman might wear would excuse a man for raping her. Trust me on this, rape can land you in jail for twenty-five years and if she kills you in the commission of it, it can be justifiable homicide. Anyone who would think that it is excusable on any grounds whatsoever is a sociopath, in my opinion, and deserves to serve every one of those years. Anyone who goes around spouting such opinions will not only find himself celibate for the rest of his life, he will find himself unemployable and a social outcast.

You're assumption is correct, and I wasn't referring to rape at all. I just get a little annoyed because girls have a choice as to what they wear, and shouldn't accuse a guy of exploiting her or whatever if he makes a comment about her that she overhears. I'm not saying that is 100% of the time the case. That's it.
 
You're assumption is correct, and I wasn't referring to rape at all. I just get a little annoyed because girls have a choice as to what they wear, and shouldn't accuse a guy of exploiting her or whatever if he makes a comment about her that she overhears. I'm not saying that is 100% of the time the case. That's it.
That's awful, barbaric and uncivilized! Let's cover them with Burka!
 
She might have been one of wives of a king, traveling with him extensively and wearing the latest fashion.
 
That's awful, barbaric and uncivilized! Let's cover them with Burka!

You're not interpreting me correctly. I'm not saying women shouldn't have a chose as to what to wear. I'm saying if they chose to reveal their bodies, they have no grounds to complain about men starring at them or saying things about them which make them feel uncomfortable. I think there's in-balance with news about this subject. The woman is always put in the right which isn't true in real life.

Anyone who claims I'm sexiest is very wrong. Why, because I said men aren't always wrong? Think it through.
 

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