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MOESAN
03-06-15, 19:55
hard to swallow but interesting survey in connection with Indo-Europeans story - surprising enough conclusion at first sight, not about anthropology but about language and direction of human flow

A.G. Kozintsev
Museum of Anthropology and Ethnography, Russian Academy of Sciences,
Universitetskaya Nab.3, St. Petersburg, 199034, Russia
E-mail: [email protected]
CRANIOMETRIC EVIDENCE OF THE EARLY CAUCASOID MIGRATIONS
TO SIBERIA AND EASTERN CENTRAL ASIA, WITH REFERENCE
TO THE INDO-EUROPEAN PROBLEM*

bicicleur
03-06-15, 21:12
is there a link where this study is not behind a paywall ?

Angela
03-06-15, 22:03
It's available through Researchgate-

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/241118475_CRANIOMETRIC_EVIDENCE_OF_THE_EARLY_CAUCA SOID_MIGRATIONS_TO_SIBERIA_AND_EASTERN_CENTRAL_ASI A_WITH_REFERENCE_TO_THE_INDO-EUROPEAN_PROBLEM

MOESAN
05-06-15, 20:18
just to pull attention to people courageous enough to read the paper, one a bit heavy for our stomach.
it seems they differentiated two sorts of europoid people in different times and different places: in the same culture in different places and in the same place at different times.
some less 'gracilized' and with more 'cromagnoidlike' imput (not the first as it seems) and some more "gracilized" ones coming from WEST AND CENTRAL EUROPE but well distinguished by the authors (according to themselves) from the Transcaucasus ones and from the Southcentral Asians ones; and the most "gracilized" and "westernerlike" would have been the first settler in far Asia, as well in tarim bassin as around the Ienissei river!
I'm a bit doubtful even if I think part of the lastly "steppes Europoids" were distinct and from WHG/EHG and from classical "southerners" - and other authors took the opposite conclusions on this metric criteria (but I already wrote I thought even scholars have very often agendas, these last ones too) -
in fact this russian scientist is a supporter of the Renfrew thesis. Good reading nevertheless!

Tomenable
13-06-15, 01:27
Why this surprise that there were Caucasoids around the Ienissei River ?

Already Mal'ta and Afontova Gora (which is on the Ienissei) 24,000 - 17,000 years ago were rather Caucasoid people:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/full/nature12736.html


(...) This suggests that populations related to contemporary western Eurasians had a more north-easterly distribution 24,000 years ago than commonly thought. Furthermore, we estimate that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population. This is likely to have occurred after the divergence of Native American ancestors from east Asian ancestors, but before the diversification of Native American populations in the New World. Gene flow from the MA-1 [Mal'ta] lineage into Native American ancestors could explain why several crania from the First Americans have been reported as bearing morphological characteristics that do not resemble those of east Asians2, 13. Sequencing of another south-central Siberian, Afontova Gora-2 dating to approximately 17,000 years ago14, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as MA-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum. Our findings reveal that western Eurasian genetic signatures in modern-day Native Americans derive not only from post-Columbian admixture, as commonly thought, but also from a mixed ancestry of the First Americans. (...)

Those Caucasoid-like people migrated to America through Beringia - not along the ice sheet (Solutrean hypothesis):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF1UO0-cHLs

MOESAN
13-06-15, 23:27
Why this surprise that there were Caucasoids around the Ienissei River ?

Already Mal'ta and Afontova Gora (which is on the Ienissei) 24,000 - 17,000 years ago were rather Caucasoid people:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/full/nature12736.html



Those Caucasoid-like people migrated to America through Beringia - not along the ice sheet (Solutrean hypothesis):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF1UO0-cHLs

I prefer keep on being cautious about 'europoids' (phenotypically speaking) among genuine Amerindians.
About the closest East Eurasia West Siveria, 'europoids' people are not a surpise. The surprise is the kind of precise 'europoid' sort which could be responsible for the spreading of I-Ean languages to far East. For now I'm not giving my "jugement" but trying to interest some people in a question which stays so dbeated..

MOESAN
30-07-15, 18:37
Spite my doubts, as I said in other threads (genetics) it seems the very 'western-eurasian' and even truly European types seen by Kozintsev in far East-Central Asia in supposed I-Ean settlements were not only his fancy: the autosomes of Sintashta and others are very close to the Corded's ones, more tha Yamnaya.
just to say.