PDA

View Full Version : R-Z36, Alpine Celts and Ligures



Mars
18-06-15, 11:11
I stumbled across a thread on another forum discussing the Z36 clade of R-U152 (it's my own clade, by the way) and its relation between it and the Ligures, an ancient population that lived in N/W Italy, that formed the genetic basis of most present northern italians, along with celts and italics.
The origins of Ligures are still disputed today. According to some scholars, they were a remnant of the "megalithic culture" (late Neolithic/early Bronze Age), and more specifically, a mix of WHG and EEF populations, remained unchanged through the centuries. According to others, they were a proto-italo-celtic population, that came down to Northern Italy from modern Switzerland in the early Bronze Age. According to this theory, they appeared "ancient" (culturally) to both greeks and romans because they were a first wave of IE "immigrants", as greeks and romans descended from a second wave of IE invaders.
Back to the thread I was talking about, they stated the high frequence of Z36 in many areas where Ligures offspring should live today (i.e. Garfagnana in Northern Tuscany), should be related to these proto-italo-celtic (Alpine Celt) ancestors. I think this could be pretty important, because it would help us discover the origins of Ligures: Z36 is highly diffused in Switzerland, where the La Tene culture propagated, being La Tene the proto-celtic cultural area par excellance. So, if their theory is right, Ligures could have been actually proto-celtic, maybe a secondary branch which settled in Italy much earlier than their italic counterparts, and maybe the "megalithic" populations could have been absorbed by them.
I'm Z36 and my paternal ancestor came from a village in the area dr. Piazza considered a "ligurian remnant" (genetically speaking) in the late 90s (the light brown area in the picture below). What do you think?
https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10421300_900771023318286_3566115273919081911_n.jpg ?oh=f47ec390a1e7ff1c33758e44d3bb3d33&oe=55F088CE

hokiejane
02-06-18, 19:10
Just wanted you to know that I have found this thread by Googling. My Hungarian cousin is showing as Z36+ through FTDNA SNP testing. It seems there is some controversy on whether it is a real SNP based on postings on Anthrogenica. Have you followed these discussions by chance?

jkanters
10-09-18, 07:18
Seems it is a real SNP. Look at YFull for example www yfull com/tree/R-Z36/. I cannot post links yet