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LeBrok
22-06-15, 17:11
The genetic research is speeding up these days and it shouldn't be long when we have published genomes of many ancient cultures. I think it is time to have a little competition here for bragging rights. Give your best guess.



Personally, I believe we might find the hiding spot of J2 folks. Other than that we should find G2a, or even some R1b.
Multiple choice is allowed.

Fluffy
22-06-15, 19:14
Went with R1b and G2a.

Maciamo
23-06-15, 08:14
I have always said R1b1a2 + G2a3b1. There might be a minority of J2 and T1a.

bicicleur
23-06-15, 09:55
I would say G2a, but why was this not found in anciant Armenia/Russia then?

Greying Wanderer
23-06-15, 14:31
I would say G2a, but why was this not found in anciant Armenia/Russia then?


Yes it seems to me it would most likely be (one of):
G from the south
R1b from the south
R1b from the north

but no G being found yet pushes it to R1b.

Alan
23-06-15, 18:21
R1b, G2a and some J is my guess.

Edit: By the way I am the guy who tipped N*.

holderlin
25-06-15, 23:31
J2 with some R1b

Dov
19-08-17, 00:51
It depends on what a period of this culture. According to the logic, the early pre-indo-european Maikop should be J/G like. The late layers of Maikop, which have traces of Indo-Europeonization (Parikrama, Wheel-sun, two dogs in graves) should add some R1.
We'll see.

Ygorbr
29-08-17, 11:54
My bet is on J2 and a substantial minority of R1b.

Jerry2
08-09-17, 11:28
How about R1b?

Angela
15-10-17, 18:08
It could be a form of G2 as well, perhaps.

MOESAN
28-12-17, 23:10
it's uneasy to guess upon O info, but "phylosophically" I doubt the elite was Y-G2 bearer; this culture had something very barbaric in it, and seems to me a small warlike elite dominating surrounding regions, maybe running raids here and there sometimes. Not the way I dream the Y-G2 post-Tripolje elites. So I would give the preference to a Y-R1b small elite not by force coming from South Caucasus (it could have been the opposite way); the metrics surveys evocate a not Caucasus not Steppic type but something close to Southeastern Caspian lands, so Y-J2 as well as some isolated kind of Y-R1b, or even Y-L2 why not? No answer here. As we know the males haplos are not tightly linked to auDNA a pop from South-East could have passed North but after could also having been overruned by some less "educated" warriors elites, and here I see rather northern Y-R1b.
It's just to make bets and give life again to the thread because I think the "unpassable" mountains saw a lot of come and retourn events what is very upsetting concerning origins of R1b in these regions!

Angela
04-04-18, 17:15
it's uneasy to guess upon O info, but "phylosophically" I doubt the elite was Y-G2 bearer; this culture had something very barbaric in it, and seems to me a small warlike elite dominating surrounding regions, maybe running raids here and there sometimes. Not the way I dream the Y-G2 post-Tripolje elites. So I would give the preference to a Y-R1b small elite not by force coming from South Caucasus (it could have been the opposite way); the metrics surveys evocate a not Caucasus not Steppic type but something close to Southeastern Caspian lands, so Y-J2 as well as some isolated kind of Y-R1b, or even Y-L2 why not? No answer here. As we know the males haplos are not tightly linked to auDNA a pop from South-East could have passed North but after could also having been overruned by some less "educated" warriors elites, and here I see rather northern Y-R1b.
It's just to make bets and give life again to the thread because I think the "unpassable" mountains saw a lot of come and retourn events what is very upsetting concerning origins of R1b in these regions!

You've persuaded me out of G2. :) Maybe R1b and perhaps J2b?

Alpenjager
04-04-18, 17:49
You forgot a important haplogroup in your poll: L-M20

Important in the Black sea region and most important after being found among the Kura Araxes culture.

Olympus Mons
08-04-18, 17:36
J1 and L.
J1 coming from Uruk and L coming from the east(iran).
Freaking reptilian (ubaid) people. :)

Alpenjager
17-05-18, 19:26
You forgot a important haplogroup in your poll: L-M20

Important in the Black sea region and most important after being found among the Kura Araxes culture.

Looks like I'm the only one that predicted L-M20 in Maykop. This lineage, now is found to dominates the Late Maykop.

LeBrok
18-05-18, 00:14
Looks like I'm the only one that predicted L-M20 in Maykop. This lineage, now is found to dominates the Late Maykop.
Congrats. It was a difficult one.

ToBeOrNotToBe
18-05-18, 13:38
Congrats. It was a difficult one.
Three individuals who lived in the Chalcolithic era (c. 5700–6250 years BP), found at the Areni-1 ("Bird's Eye") cave in the South Caucasus mountains (present-day Vayots Dzor Province, Armenia), was also identified as belonging to haplogroup L1a. The individual's genome also indicated that he had red hair and blue eyes.
There does seem to be a link between R1b and L1a then, how peculiar. Perhaps the R1b-Anatolian theory is wrong, and it's actually from the Zagros, and the R1b guys got their Gedrosian from migrating Westwards through Northern South Asia and Iran, before heading onto the Steppe, but this still doesn't explain CHG (unless they picked up CHG women on the way too). Also, now I think about it, is there not a discrepancy between the lack of Caucasian among the Indo-Europeans (relative to Gedrosia) and the claim that CHGs moved up and mixed with Steppe EHGs? I'd hugely appreciate anybody explaining that to me, as I've never found a good answer, but maybe I haven't looked hard enough
I think Gedrosian was found on the pre-Maykop Steppe though, so perhaps that migration is a lot more ancient than is relevant in this context.
Or perhaps this Armenian was some fusion between Kura-Araxes and R1b women, who got their R1b admix from R1b men who went up to the Caucasus from Anatolia. That's my working theory at the moment, but the correlation between Y DNA L and Gedrosian (and the known correlation between R1b and Gedrosian in Europe) is striking.
Ancient Chalcolithic genomes from Anatolia and Iran (and Mesopotamia would be amazing) are desperately needed.
Whatever the case, it's very clear that these Y DNA Ls and R1bs are clearly related through Gedrosian admixture.

Olympus Mons
19-05-18, 10:49
Looks like I'm the only one that predicted L-M20 in Maykop. This lineage, now is found to dominates the Late Maykop.

You first. But me too.
Those L1a in kura were a give away, were they not? ;)

Better question is...where did they came from?

Johane Derite
19-05-18, 11:22
J1 and L.
J1 coming from Uruk and L coming from the east(iran).
Freaking reptilian (ubaid) people. :)


These are ubaid sculptures. They show the woman as powerful. Is it possible they had some different sort of social organization where the men worshipped and served their women?

http://www.ancientpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/reptilianhumanoids1.jpg

Johane Derite
19-05-18, 11:28
These are ubaid sculptures. They show the woman as powerful. Is it possible they had some different sort of social organization where the men worshipped and served their women?

http://www.ancientpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/reptilianhumanoids1.jpg

They seem to show her as frightening also.

Alpenjager
21-05-18, 02:22
They seem to show her as frightening also.

They looks rather sexy to me. Also I seems to see a baby being breastfed.

Alpenjager
21-05-18, 02:29
You first. But me too.
Those L1a in kura were a give away, were they not? ;)

Better question is...where did they came from?

L trace their roots to West Eurasia, around the Black Sea. as all the most ancient LT lineages.

Angela
21-05-18, 02:59
They seem to show her as frightening also.

Some cultures don't see a conflict.

Kali: Kali is the Hindu goddess (or Devi) of death, time, and doomsday and is often associated with sexuality and violence but is also considered a strong mother-figure and symbolic of motherly-love.

https://cdn.dollsofindia.com/images/p/goddess-pictures/goddess-kali-QK22_l.jpg

https://feminismandreligion.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/kali-with-baby.jpg?w=231&h=350

Coriolan
21-05-18, 08:00
Some cultures don't see a conflict.

Kali: Kali is the Hindu goddess (or Devi) of death, time, and doomsday and is often associated with sexuality and violence but is also considered a strong mother-figure and symbolic of motherly-love.

https://cdn.dollsofindia.com/images/p/goddess-pictures/goddess-kali-QK22_l.jpg

https://feminismandreligion.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/kali-with-baby.jpg?w=231&h=350How can the goddess of death be also a symbol of love and a motherly figure? That's so twisted!

Suleyman
21-05-18, 22:54
Maykop culture was also in Chechnya, if someone is interested in the haplogroups here you have a link.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/chechen-noahcho/default.aspx?section=yresults

Olympus Mons
21-05-18, 23:52
L trace their roots to West Eurasia, around the Black Sea. as all the most ancient LT lineages.

Can you elaborate?