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A combination of the Anatolian, Armenian and Kurgan hypothesis since I believe that R1b people domesticated cattle in eastern Anatolia around 10,500 years ago, then moved to the Caucasus region (including Armenia), crossed it to the Pontic Steppe, then expanded to Europe (first by invading the Balkans) and Central Asia. The reason why there are so many hypothesis is that there is some truth in most of them. Even the Paleolithic continuity isn't completely wrong if we consider that both R1a and R1b were already found in Paleolithic Eastern Europe.
The only one that is clearly wrong is the Out of India theory, which emerged from the refusal of some Indian people to believe that the Indo-Aryan invasion happened and that they are partly descended from Europeans. However R1b* may have originated somewhere between Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Iran after R* or R1* people from Siberia moved across Central Asia. That would explain the presence of teal Gedosian-like admixture in Yamna R1b people.
Here is the migration map of R1b.
Taranis: The Pontic-Caspian steppe (Kurgan) model is the one that - by far - best fits with the available linguistic evidence (in particular the common terminology for "wheel" or "wheeled vehicle", which, in my opinion, narrows down the origin). However, I concede that the "run-up" allows for a variety of possibilities. What I find worthy of mention there in particular is the so-called "Indo-Hittite" model, which argues for a split between Proto-Anatolian and a "late" form of PIE from which the other IE branches are derived, and which has shown up again and again in the Indo-European "trees" by supporters of various theories.
Taranis: With regard for both the Anatolian hypothesis and PCT, it struck me that many adherents are uncomfortable with the idea of horsebacked bronze age warriors, and prefer the (romantic?) idea that the Indo-European language were spread in more "peaceful" ways.
Good observation. There is always some continuity between consecutive cultures. We can only talk about degree of influence.A combination of the Anatolian, Armenian and Kurgan hypothesis since I believe that R1b people domesticated cattle in eastern Anatolia around 10,500 years ago, then moved to the Caucasus region (including Armenia), crossed it to the Pontic Steppe, then expanded to Europe (first by invading the Balkans) and Central Asia. The reason why there are so many hypothesis is that there is some truth in most of them. Even the Paleolithic continuity isn't completely wrong if we consider that both R1a and R1b were already found in Paleolithic Eastern Europe.
The only one that is clearly wrong is the Out of India theory, which emerged from the refusal of some Indian people to believe that the Indo-Aryan invasion happened and that they are partly descended from Europeans. However R1b* may have originated somewhere between Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Iran after R* or R1* people from Siberia moved across Central Asia. That would explain the presence of teal Gedosian-like admixture in Yamna R1b people.
Here is the migration map of R1b.
Good observation. There is always some continuity between consecutive cultures. We can only talk about degree of influence.
Here however, in IE case, we have to make sure we are talking about finished IE package, and as such it came together in the Steppe. From there we can engage in a discussion where all the IE elements come from, like language, metallurgy, horses, cows, the wheel, religion, genetics, agriculture etc. I'm sure they all didn't come from only one source.
The out-of India cannot be dismissed offhand as I did in my earlier viewpoint. There was continual contact with Indus Valley Civilization through the Hindu Kush passes and via the Arabian Sea. There was close contact with Elamites and even the Red Sea ports. Naturally history as we know seems to be written with a European view with Herodotus and Roman sources. However time will tell with more archaeological discoveries in the Indian Ocean off the ancient city of Dwarka and in the Bay of Bengal and other sites.
People don't seem to mention the Persian Empire before the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great. The Persian power spread from Afghanistan to Anatolia and Egypt. They would have also spread Indo-European culture. The Phrygians were also allied with Cyrus the Great.
A combination of the Anatolian, Armenian and Kurgan hypothesis since I believe that R1b people domesticated cattle in eastern Anatolia around 10,500 years ago, then moved to the Caucasus region (including Armenia), crossed it to the Pontic Steppe, then expanded to Europe (first by invading the Balkans) and Central Asia. The reason why there are so many hypothesis is that there is some truth in most of them. Even the Paleolithic continuity isn't completely wrong if we consider that both R1a and R1b were already found in Paleolithic Eastern Europe.
The only one that is clearly wrong is the Out of India theory, which emerged from the refusal of some Indian people to believe that the Indo
Great post. Guess I should of made it multiple choice.
While I agree with R1b movements, I disagree with those R1b early pastoralists speaking pre-PIE. They became PIE in Yamna.A combination of the Anatolian, Armenian and Kurgan hypothesis since I believe that R1b people domesticated cattle in eastern Anatolia around 10,500 years ago, then moved to the Caucasus region (including Armenia), crossed it to the Pontic Steppe, then expanded to Europe (first by invading the Balkans) and Central Asia. The reason why there are so many hypothesis is that there is some truth in most of them. Even the Paleolithic continuity isn't completely wrong if we consider that both R1a and R1b were already found in Paleolithic Eastern Europe.
The only one that is clearly wrong is the Out of India theory, which emerged from the refusal of some Indian people to believe that the Indo-Aryan invasion happened and that they are partly descended from Europeans. However R1b* may have originated somewhere between Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Iran after R* or R1* people from Siberia moved across Central Asia. That would explain the presence of teal Gedosian-like admixture in Yamna R1b people.
A combination of the Anatolian, Armenian and Kurgan hypothesis since I believe that R1b people domesticated cattle in eastern Anatolia around 10,500 years ago, then moved to the Caucasus region (including Armenia), crossed it to the Pontic Steppe, then expanded to Europe (first by invading the Balkans) and Central Asia. The reason why there are so many hypothesis is that there is some truth in most of them. Even the Paleolithic continuity isn't completely wrong if we consider that both R1a and R1b were already found in Paleolithic Eastern Europe.
The only one that is clearly wrong is the Out of India theory, which emerged from the refusal of some Indian people to believe that the Indo-Aryan invasion happened and that they are partly descended from Europeans. However R1b* may have originated somewhere between Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Iran after R* or R1* people from Siberia moved across Central Asia. That would explain the presence of teal Gedosian-like admixture in Yamna R1b people.
Here is the migration map of R1b.
A combination of the Anatolian, Armenian and Kurgan hypothesis since I believe that R1b people domesticated cattle in eastern Anatolia around 10,500 years ago, then moved to the Caucasus region (including Armenia), crossed it to the Pontic Steppe, then expanded to Europe (first by invading the Balkans) and Central Asia. The reason why there are so many hypothesis is that there is some truth in most of them. Even the Paleolithic continuity isn't completely wrong if we consider that both R1a and R1b were already found in Paleolithic Eastern Europe....
Maciamo said:The only one that is clearly wrong is the Out of India theory, which emerged from the refusal of some Indian people to believe that the Indo-Aryan invasion happened and that they are partly descended from Europeans. (...)
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