Tomenable
Elite member
- Messages
- 5,419
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- 1,337
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Poland
- Ethnic group
- Polish
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b-L617
- mtDNA haplogroup
- W6a
Revisiting the issue of "Ice Age refugia" in the context of WHG, SHG, EHG ancestries
We have learned by now, that there were at least three, autosomally quite distinct, types of foragers in Europe:
WHG - western (from Iberia to North-Western France) hunter-gatherers
SHG - central (from Scandinavia at least to Hungary*) hunter-gatherers
EHG - eastern (from Karelia to Pontic-Caspian area) hunter-gatherers
*This is what Pinhasi claimed ("Pinhasi’s team has found that the genomes sequenced from hunter-gatherers from Hungary and Switzerland between 14,000 to 7,500 years ago are very close to specimens from Denmark or Sweden from the same period" - LINK).
There were similarities between them, but also differences. EHG, for instance, was ANE-rich.
Both SHG and EHG were also lighter-pigmented than WHG. WHG were darker, if I remember correctly.
WHG probably had more of Aurignacian ancestry (see Y-DNA of Kostenki14, and then La-Brana).
I think these differences between WHG, SHG and EHG components (combined with lack of significant differences WITHIN each of those components - for example Karelian hunter was autosomally almost identical with Samara hunter) could be the result of their distinct origins from three separate Ice Age refugia. That old concept of Ice Ace Refugia was wrong when it comes to association of certain haplogroups with certain refugia (the map below) - especially when it comes to the spurious association of R1b with the Iberian refugium, on the grounds of modern frequencies.
But it doesn't mean that the entire concept was necessarily erroneous:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum_refugia
Association of three HG autosomal components - WHG, SHG and EHG - with those three refugia as shown above, seems probable to me, and could explain observed differences between them. However, when it comes to Y-DNA, WHG were not R1b, but rather C1 (C-M130) and some subclades of I2. The "central", Balkan or Italian, refugium, could be home to other clades of I2 (e.g. those found in Sweden: I2a1, I2c) and to I1.
To sum up, this is my hypothesis:
What do you think about this ???
=================================
If such an explanation of differences between WHG, SHG, EHG was already proposed before, then I apologize for not checking carefully enough.
We have learned by now, that there were at least three, autosomally quite distinct, types of foragers in Europe:
WHG - western (from Iberia to North-Western France) hunter-gatherers
SHG - central (from Scandinavia at least to Hungary*) hunter-gatherers
EHG - eastern (from Karelia to Pontic-Caspian area) hunter-gatherers
*This is what Pinhasi claimed ("Pinhasi’s team has found that the genomes sequenced from hunter-gatherers from Hungary and Switzerland between 14,000 to 7,500 years ago are very close to specimens from Denmark or Sweden from the same period" - LINK).
There were similarities between them, but also differences. EHG, for instance, was ANE-rich.
Both SHG and EHG were also lighter-pigmented than WHG. WHG were darker, if I remember correctly.
WHG probably had more of Aurignacian ancestry (see Y-DNA of Kostenki14, and then La-Brana).
I think these differences between WHG, SHG and EHG components (combined with lack of significant differences WITHIN each of those components - for example Karelian hunter was autosomally almost identical with Samara hunter) could be the result of their distinct origins from three separate Ice Age refugia. That old concept of Ice Ace Refugia was wrong when it comes to association of certain haplogroups with certain refugia (the map below) - especially when it comes to the spurious association of R1b with the Iberian refugium, on the grounds of modern frequencies.
But it doesn't mean that the entire concept was necessarily erroneous:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum_refugia
Association of three HG autosomal components - WHG, SHG and EHG - with those three refugia as shown above, seems probable to me, and could explain observed differences between them. However, when it comes to Y-DNA, WHG were not R1b, but rather C1 (C-M130) and some subclades of I2. The "central", Balkan or Italian, refugium, could be home to other clades of I2 (e.g. those found in Sweden: I2a1, I2c) and to I1.
To sum up, this is my hypothesis:
What do you think about this ???
=================================
If such an explanation of differences between WHG, SHG, EHG was already proposed before, then I apologize for not checking carefully enough.