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LeBrok
21-07-15, 05:10
Did we crossed a threshold in intelligence development, which will let us develop any technology and produce enough food in any conditions to survive any catastrophe, like new Ice Age or Global Warming, or giant meteorite strike?

Will our dark side of violence, hatred and destruction bring annihilation of humankind in total atom war? Likewise, will we all die irreversibly polluting the whole planet?

Will we save our species by genetically enhancing our good traits like memory, intelligence, kindness, compassion, love of life, optimism, which will bring prosperity and peace for the whole planet?

Will we enhance humans to the point of becoming immortal gods, flying in spaceships to other solar system seeding life and intelligence throughout galaxy?

Space is vast and we might not be able to live long enough to fly to other starts and will die as species when our sun burns out?

Perhaps Jesus will come again or other our creator and take us "home"?

If we enhance ourselves to the point of becoming super-beings, will we stop being humans?

Perhaps we are no better and no more special than other species on Earth and will only last the average lifespan of a species, few million years?

Perhaps we will exhaust all the resources of our planet, technological civilization will collapse, and we will only exist as hunter-gatherers for a million years or so?

Perhaps, as rich nations do, we will have fewer and fewer kids till the last one "turns off the light" in 10,000 years?

Perhaps, as rich and lazy, we will lose the will to live, we lose a purpose of existence, we will get totally board, and will commit suicide as a specie?



What is your scenario for humankind, for survival and future of our species?

LeBrok
21-07-15, 05:31
Personally I'm optimistic. I think we are smart, good enough, and resilient to always find a way to go on.

Boreas
21-07-15, 11:34
We can live long but I don't think we will live with same quality. There will be a fall

bicicleur
21-07-15, 15:09
when whatever catstrophie happens, it will be back to survival of the fittest
now that doesn't exist any more, we have a population explosion that can't last

Angela
21-07-15, 18:57
Personally I'm optimistic. I think we are smart, good enough, and resilient to always find a way to go on.

Of course you do, my dear Le Brok. I expected nothing less. :)

It shouldn't surprise you to know that I love end of the world scenario films and tv series. This is a great list.
http://www.ifc.com/fix/2012/04/10-best-earth-in-distress-movies/2

I do have some optimism, however, and a personal determination to survive. (and I suppose a belief that it's possible.)

At least since adolescence I occasionally have a very detailed dream about an invasion of some sort, or a "plague", where I scurry madly about stocking seeds and animals and tools, getting generators for electricity etc. and then heading into the mountains. Oh, I always make sure to bring along lots of guns and ammo. (True. In dire circumstances I don't trust people at all.) I think some of it might have to do with the fact that my grandmother lived with us and many of her stories were about the war. Anyway, if it ever happens, my plan is ready to go. :)

mihaitzateo
21-07-15, 21:42
Why the poll do not have an option "I have no idea" ?

DuPidh
21-07-15, 22:46
Did we crossed a threshold in intelligence development, which will let us develop any technology and produce enough food in any conditions to survive any catastrophe, like new Ice Age or Global Warming, or giant meteorite strike?

Will our dark side of violence, hatred and destruction bring annihilation of humankind in total atom war? Likewise, will we all die irreversibly polluting the whole planet?

Will we save our species by genetically enhancing our good traits like memory, intelligence, kindness, compassion, love of life, optimism, which will bring prosperity and peace for the whole planet?

Will we enhance humans to the point of becoming immortal gods, flying in spaceships to other solar system seeding life and intelligence throughout galaxy?

Space is vast and we might not be able to live long enough to fly to other starts and will die as species when our sun burns out?

Perhaps Jesus will come again or other our creator and take us "home"?

If we enhance ourselves to the point of becoming super-beings, will we stop being humans?

Perhaps we are no better and no more special than other species on Earth and will only last the average lifespan of a species, few million years?

Perhaps we will exhaust all the resources of our planet, technological civilization will collapse, and we will only exist as hunter-gatherers for a million years or so?

Perhaps, as rich nations do, we will have fewer and fewer kids till the last one "turns off the light" in 10,000 years?

Perhaps, as rich and lazy, we will lose the will to live, we lose a purpose of existence, we will get totally board, and will commit suicide as a specie?



What is your scenario for humankind, for survival and future of our species?
Earth will be livable for at most 400 million years. By then there will be not enough magnetism to protect the earth from radiation. Humanity is doomed if no asteroid visits earth earlier than that.

LeBrok
22-07-15, 02:36
Why the poll do not have an option "I have no idea" ? It is obvious. All who posted here but didn't vote chose "I don't know". It is not about truth, it is all about personal feelings about humanity, and some fun, and some thought exchange on the subject.

LeBrok
22-07-15, 02:38
Earth will be livable for at most 400 million years. By then there will be not enough magnetism to protect the earth from radiation. Humanity is doomed if no asteroid visits earth earlier than that.
I never heard about any prediction how long magnetic field will last. Why 400 million?

LeBrok
22-07-15, 02:40
when whatever catstrophie happens, it will be back to survival of the fittest
now that doesn't exist any more, we have a population explosion that can't last
I think it will shrink soon when all world develops. I also think that 1 billion people would be a nice and sustainable number on Earth.

LeBrok
22-07-15, 02:44
We can live long but I don't think we will live with same quality. There will be a fall
I don't agree. Soon we will live healthier lives on much more comfortable level. Robots will do the work, automatic cars and plains will carry us around, 3D printers will print all we need, even from sand which is inexhaustible.
The only problem will be boredom a lack of purpose in life.

LeBrok
22-07-15, 02:52
Of course you do, my dear Le Brok. I expected nothing less. :)

It shouldn't surprise you to know that I love end of the world scenario films and tv series. This is a great list.
http://www.ifc.com/fix/2012/04/10-best-earth-in-distress-movies/2

I do have some optimism, however, and a personal determination to survive. (and I suppose a belief that it's possible.)

At least since adolescence I occasionally have a very detailed dream about an invasion of some sort, or a "plague", where I scurry madly about stocking seeds and animals and tools, getting generators for electricity etc. and then heading into the mountains. Oh, I always make sure to bring along lots of guns and ammo. (True. In dire circumstances I don't trust people at all.) I think some of it might have to do with the fact that my grandmother lived with us and many of her stories were about the war. Anyway, if it ever happens, my plan is ready to go. :)
I can't watch disaster movies, they are screwing up science and physics in general, not mentioning terrible dialog. We just had unusual situation to compare life to the fictional scenario of a viable disaster. We survived Ebola outbreak, with all world working together sending help, isolating 3 unfortunate countries, and with few thousand deaths. In motion picture "Outbreak" humankind barely survived, and by way of a miracle. There is more hope to humankind that you want to admit. ;)

DuPidh
22-07-15, 05:41
I never heard about any prediction how long magnetic field will last. Why 400 million?
Some scientists speculate that Earth is at its 90% of its magnetic life. Remains another 10 %. Since Earth is 4 billion years old 10% is 400 million. Earth mantle will no longer be molted. Molten mantle is responsible for generating magnetism which in turn deflects high energy radioactive particles coming from the sun and other cosmic bodies. That enables life to exist. In that case Earth will be striped of its atmosphere and that will mean end of humanity.

LeBrok
22-07-15, 05:55
Some scientists speculate that Earth is at its 90% of its magnetic life. Remains another 10 %. Since Earth is 4 billion years old 10% is 400 million. Earth mantle will no longer be molted. Molten mantle is responsible for generating magnetism which in turn deflects high energy radioactive particles coming from the sun and other cosmic bodies. That enables life to exist. In that case Earth will be striped of its atmosphere and that will mean end of humanity.

There is a hypothesis saying that Earth's internal heat is powered by nuclear reactor inside the core. As long as this reactor is active the magma, vulcanism and magnetic field will go on. It's been 5 billion years since Earth's birth already. Who knows how much energy is left? Without it Earth would be like Mars, Venus or a moon.

But don't worry, we'll be walking around in tin foil hats. :)
Or build glass domes for cities, or wipe wires around the stratosphere and create man made magnetic field.

Maleth
22-07-15, 10:47
Did we crossed a threshold in intelligence development, which will let us develop any technology and produce enough food in any conditions to survive any catastrophe, like new Ice Age or Global Warming, or giant meteorite strike?

Will our dark side of violence, hatred and destruction bring annihilation of humankind in total atom war? Likewise, will we all die irreversibly polluting the whole planet?

Will we save our species by genetically enhancing our good traits like memory, intelligence, kindness, compassion, love of life, optimism, which will bring prosperity and peace for the whole planet?

Will we enhance humans to the point of becoming immortal gods, flying in spaceships to other solar system seeding life and intelligence throughout galaxy?

Space is vast and we might not be able to live long enough to fly to other starts and will die as species when our sun burns out?

Perhaps Jesus will come again or other our creator and take us "home"?

If we enhance ourselves to the point of becoming super-beings, will we stop being humans?

Perhaps we are no better and no more special than other species on Earth and will only last the average lifespan of a species, few million years?

Perhaps we will exhaust all the resources of our planet, technological civilization will collapse, and we will only exist as hunter-gatherers for a million years or so?

Perhaps, as rich nations do, we will have fewer and fewer kids till the last one "turns off the light" in 10,000 years?

Perhaps, as rich and lazy, we will lose the will to live, we lose a purpose of existence, we will get totally board, and will commit suicide as a specie?



What is your scenario for humankind, for survival and future of our species?

My opinion is that the world will exist long enough (Surviving more imminent challenges such as Ice age and global warming). In fact we can learn from global warming how to warm up the earth in an ice age situation. We can also learn how to plan ahead without any upheavals and internal chaos. At present we will be seen in this current era as primitive when it comes to regional conflicts and global cooperation. This mainly is due to the turbulence of the information age since in reality its still very much in its infancy and does not have access to the whole global population.The information divide is still very evident and will be for a few decades to come. This means that there is going to be a few hundred years of conflicts (verbal and bloody) before it will balance itself out with the middle east and Africa being the last to fall in line.

In the meantime, we would have acquired enough knowledge to build artificial atmospheres in other planets namely Mars, with a number of people emigrating there with better transportation systems. Nuclear power will be harnessed and used in a more sensible and safer way.

In regards to being bored due to robots doing nearly all, lets see it this way. This was already a similar issue when humans became sedentary. A group of people seemed to have much more time on their hands and instead of being bored the arts, sciences, Literature Religions and lots of entertainment was created were otherwise it would not have been possible due to the fact that could only concentrate on how to survive as in terms of food and water. So I would believe it would be just a continuation of that with more people being involved in this other part of life which at present one can only dream of when they get retired, because most of the time one needs to make a living......and now that's even snatched away for another few years because of pension reforms and so on. Voluntary work will also increase. My only concern is that there are going to be a very few number of people who will be mighty rich and everybody else will earn enough just to get by and cause any major revolution but will be comfortable enough even on today's standards. It would be a kind of new communism ruled by a few mighty rich.

LeBrok
23-07-15, 02:40
My opinion is that the world will exist long enough (Surviving more imminent challenges such as Ice age and global warming). In fact we can learn from global warming how to warm up the earth in an ice age situation. We can also learn how to plan ahead without any upheavals and internal chaos. At present we will be seen in this current era as primitive when it comes to regional conflicts and global cooperation.
It might be tough, not from technical side, but international agreements. Some countries would like to warm the planet up, some would like to cool it down. Agreement might never be reached. The only decision might be to keep all at current level, no climate change allowed, not to upset anyone. Like we won't let any animal species go extinct nowadays. Climate and evolution will be on hold indefinitely, supported by human condition of being scared of new and unknown.


In the meantime, we would have acquired enough knowledge to build artificial atmospheres in other planets namely Mars. This one is a long shot. To transport trillions of tons of gasses to create Mars atmosphere, and hundred of billions tons of water, plant life, and make it balanced and sustainable, might take millions of years. Other option is to drill a whole to the center of Mars, dump millions of tons of Uranium and kick start reactor inside Mars. This will reheat mantle, this in turn will cause plates tectonic movements and new volcanoes will release gasses to replenish atmosphere. Not necessarily in the right amounts, so this will need long adjustments. Again, a process for millions of years.
Well, if we behave and survive long enough we might see it happen one day.



In regards to being bored due to robots doing nearly all, lets see it this way. This was already a similar issue when humans became sedentary. A group of people seemed to have much more time on their hands and instead of being bored the arts, sciences, Literature Religions and lots of entertainment was created were otherwise it would not have been possible due to the fact that could only concentrate on how to survive as in terms of food and water. So I would believe it would be just a continuation of that with more people being involved in this other part of life which at present one can only dream of when they get retired, because most of the time one needs to make a living......and now that's even snatched away for another few years because of pension reforms and so on. Voluntary work will also increase. My only concern is that there are going to be a very few number of people who will be mighty rich and everybody else will earn enough just to get by and cause any major revolution but will be comfortable enough even on today's standards. It would be a kind of new communism ruled by a few mighty rich.

It is actually a very interesting scenario, and possibly coming soon to disrupt money flow in our economies. Right now people go to work, they make money, they buy stuff, money goes to factory/business, business buy materials, make new stuff, pays employees for work making stuff, people spend...etc, etc. Money goes in circle. Also people make money and pay taxes, government spends on services for people acting like one communal customer, money goes to businesses and people. In close future however, there will be almost only robots working in factories and services. Robots don't get paid and they don't buy stuff. Money flow as we know is interrupted.

Technically there still should be prosperity. Robots produce goods and serve, people consume. The problem is how do we distribute goods and services without people making money? Give them for free equally, or by needs? Total communism.
Should we tax businesses to the max? Businesses produce and sell, government gets most of the money in taxes, gives money to people (huge welfare system), people spend buying stuff, money goes back to businesses. The money flow is restored. There is another problem, industry can pack and leave to a country with lowest business tax, leaving high tax countries without production and will sliding into a poverty. Unless in the future, there is same high business tax for the whole planet.
Anyway, this problem will crop up soon, when more and more factories will employ only robots. There is interesting phenomenon happening in US during last decade, and related to this phenomenon. Thanks to robotics more and more US firms comes back to manufacture in States. When robots produce stuff the labour cost is of no consequence, therefore the best business location is close to the consumers, for cheaper and faster transportation. It is a good new for States, business people, few professionals, but not necessarily to US working force. Businesses come back but it doesn't translate in lesser unemployment and richer working class. This disrupting trend will only speed up, and at some point money flow will be severely skewed with huge consequences to whole economy and people. New economic model of money flow might be urgently needed.

One of my ideas is to make sure that all citizens become shareholders of local companies, or micro shareholders in every company in a country, and will be paid in money as dividends, or some kind of profit sharing. Money flow will be restored from producer to customer, and money that people make will mirror success and production of entire economy. Here is a funny question. Should citizens become shareholders at birth or at age of 18? You don't need to buy shares, it is an automatic process to share economy equally among every citizen.

I'm afraid, we like it or not, beck door communism might be around the corner, even if it is only on worker or consumer side. Business people and monetary capital will still operate as usual. Unless, at some point, robots can take these jobs away too?

Maleth
23-07-15, 19:44
It might be tough, not from technical side, but international agreements. Some countries would like to warm the planet up, some would like to cool it down. Agreement might never be reached. The only decision might be to keep all at current level, no climate change allowed, not to upset anyone. Like we won't let any animal species go extinct nowadays. Climate and evolution will be on hold indefinitely, supported by human condition of being scared of new and unknown.

with global warming there would be lots of new land that would be able to support life and not sure about the ration, but much other would be uninhabitable unless energy is so cheap that sea water could be turned to drinking water and a/c's could keep people sane. Present day city deserts such as Dubai and Las Vegas are mega expensive to run and unless energy costs will become much cheaper it will not be able to sustain in newly formed dessert areas. There isnt much that could be done with the rising sea, and the violent storms / hurricanes will his all continents and got a better chance of hitting a city in the case of global warming. Urban areas are likely to be hit since the Urbanised areas have increased dramatically globally.


This one is a long shot. To transport trillions of tons of gasses to create Mars atmosphere, and hundred of billions tons of water, plant life, and make it balanced and sustainable, might take millions of years. Other option is to drill a whole to the center of Mars, dump millions of tons of Uranium and kick start reactor inside Mars. This will reheat mantle, this in turn will cause plates tectonic movements and new volcanoes will release gasses to replenish atmosphere. Not necessarily in the right amounts, so this will need long adjustments. Again, a process for millions of years.
Well, if we behave and survive long enough we might see it happen one day.

There is lots of money spent in this regards. Humans will be living in domes to start with and each dome will be fully functional with water and food production. Robots will be used in mining in the outer atmosphere. I believe it will just take a few more hundred years and not millions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BCZSpyO6q0





It is actually a very interesting scenario, and possibly coming soon to disrupt money flow in our economies. Right now people go to work, they make money, they buy stuff, money goes to factory/business, business buy materials, make new stuff, pays employees for work making stuff, people spend...etc, etc. Money goes in circle. Also people make money and pay taxes, government spends on services for people acting like one communal customer, money goes to businesses and people. In close future however, there will be almost only robots working in factories and services. Robots don't get paid and they don't buy stuff. Money flow as we know is interrupted.

Technically there still should be prosperity. Robots produce goods and serve, people consume. The problem is how do we distribute goods and services without people making money? Give them for free equally, or by needs? Total communism.
Should we tax businesses to the max? Businesses produce and sell, government gets most of the money in taxes, gives money to people (huge welfare system), people spend buying stuff, money goes back to businesses. The money flow is restored. There is another problem, industry can pack and leave to a country with lowest business tax, leaving high tax countries without production and will sliding into a poverty. Unless in the future, there is same high business tax for the whole planet.
Anyway, this problem will crop up soon, when more and more factories will employ only robots. There is interesting phenomenon happening in US during last decade, and related to this phenomenon. Thanks to robotics more and more US firms comes back to manufacture in States. When robots produce stuff the labour cost is of no consequence, therefore the best business location is close to the consumers, for cheaper and faster transportation. It is a good new for States, business people, few professionals, but not necessarily to US working force. Businesses come back but it doesn't translate in lesser unemployment and richer working class. This disrupting trend will only speed up, and at some point money flow will be severely skewed with huge consequences to whole economy and people. New economic model of money flow might be urgently needed.

One of my ideas is to make sure that all citizens become shareholders of local companies, or micro shareholders in every company in a country, and will be paid in money as dividends, or some kind of profit sharing. Money flow will be restored from producer to customer, and money that people make will mirror success and production of entire economy. Here is a funny question. Should citizens become shareholders at birth or at age of 18? You don't need to buy shares, it is an automatic process to share economy equally among every citizen.

I'm afraid, we like it or not, beck door communism might be around the corner, even if it is only on worker or consumer side. Business people and monetary capital will still operate as usual. Unless, at some point, robots can take these jobs away too?

You are right a new system would have to be put in place. Im not sure how that would phased in exactly as it would be a big change and it needs to be gradual

DuPidh
23-07-15, 22:03
There is a hypothesis saying that Earth's internal heat is powered by nuclear reactor inside the core. As long as this reactor is active the magma, vulcanism and magnetic field will go on. It's been 5 billion years since Earth's birth already. Who knows how much energy is left? Without it Earth would be like Mars, Venus or a moon.

But don't worry, we'll be walking around in tin foil hats. :)
Or build glass domes for cities, or wipe wires a of round the stratosphere and create man made magnetic field.
That's right! The radioactive materials that cause heating of the Earth center right now will decay as time goes by. As a result the magnetic activity will decrease and the high energy particle will hit the atmosphere. The phenomenon of aurora that we observe in polar areas will be observable and intense all over the planet. That means the Earth will be striped of its atmosphere and without atmosphere there will be no life. Also as time goes by the Sun loses gravity which in turn causes it to expand and the intensity of the heat will rise. None of them is good for life. Other words even everything else goes perfect on Earth in 500 milion years there will be trouble.

LeBrok
24-07-15, 04:58
with global warming there would be lots of new land that would be able to support life and not sure about the ration, but much other would be uninhabitable unless energy is so cheap that sea water could be turned to drinking water and a/c's could keep people sane. Present day city deserts such as Dubai and Las Vegas are mega expensive to run and unless energy costs will become much cheaper it will not be able to sustain in newly formed dessert areas. Energy will only get cheaper and cheaper, regardless of the source.
http://image.slidesharecdn.com/fivemythsoftechnologychange-140512001639-phpapp01/95/five-myths-of-technology-change-29-638.jpg?cb=1403573782



There isnt much that could be done with the rising sea, and the violent storms / hurricanes will his all continents and got a better chance of hitting a city in the case of global warming. Urban areas are likely to be hit since the Urbanised areas have increased dramatically globally. Overall more heat will create more clouds, this should equal a wetter and greener planet, in general sense. 150-200 years ago Canadian prairies were so dry and cold that farmers couldn't grow anything. They started settling here 120 years ago when it got a bit warmer and wetter. Any climate change will always benefit some and not others. You can't win, lol.




There is lots of money spent in this regards. Humans will be living in domes to start with and each dome will be fully functional with water and food production. Robots will be used in mining in the outer atmosphere. I believe it will just take a few more hundred years and not millions. I think at some point we will, but I personally like it here on Earth. I would rather spend time at the lake than under the glass dome on Mars. It might be a good place just for robots though. :)
Do you remember how Bio-dome 2 experiment ended? At least they were on Earth to escape to safety.

LeBrok
24-07-15, 05:05
That's right! The radioactive materials that cause heating of the Earth center right now will decay as time goes by. As a result the magnetic activity will decrease and the high energy particle will hit the atmosphere. The phenomenon of aurora that we observe in polar areas will be observable and intense all over the planet. That means the Earth will be striped of its atmosphere and without atmosphere there will be no life. Also as time goes by the Sun loses gravity which in turn causes it to expand and the intensity of the heat will rise. None of them is good for life. Other words even everything else goes perfect on Earth in 500 milion years there will be trouble.
Even 500 million years would be awesome stretch of time for human existence.

DuPidh
24-07-15, 05:45
Even 500 years would be awesome stretch of time for human existence.n

It is believed that dinosaurs lived on Earth for 350 mil years. Humans can exceed that if conditions allow. Its excepted that the biggest surprises in science will come from genetics. That will mean that Einstein will be considered a low IQ person in a 1000 years since genetics will produce smarter people. Blacks will be a lot smarter than they are today. So the hope is the humans could find a way to travel to other stars. So the possibilities are infinite

Twilight
24-07-15, 07:49
If Humans are able to colonize the earth than I'd say that humans would evolve their separate ways into extinction but if not possibly a millennium or two

Maciamo
24-07-15, 10:17
It's ridiculous to think in terms of millions of years since modern humans (Homo sapiens) have only existed for about 100,000 years and all were very different genetically (all black skin, hair and eyes, no lactose tolerance, etc.) to most people today.

With the advent of genetic engineering and gene therapy we can expect that humanity will evolve much faster within the next 2 to 5 generations, and humans might evolve into a distinct species from current Homo sapiens within just a few centuries. That is of course if robots have not annihilated us before the end of this century. According to the famous futurist Ray Kurzweil (Chief of Engineering at Google), all new scientific and technological development will be carried by artificial intelligence and robots around 2045, in barely 30 years. At that time, humans won't have any control over their destiny anymore. Enjoy life while you still can.

Taranis
24-07-15, 12:49
Personally I'm very sceptical of Ray Kurzweil's predictions, especially the notion "Humanity will be obsolete". I'm not convinced that "true" AI (especially the malevolent type that Hollywood wants to sell us every now and then) is even viable, at least with current technologies. In my opinion, the technological singularity can't happen because the underlying assumption - that Moore's Law can be applied onto every single aspect of human technology and society - is a fundamentally wrong one. When Moore formulated his law, he only ever had integrated semiconductor circuitry in mind. Even for that, and this is something that has been known for a while, Moore's Law has to come to an end because of the physical limitations (which Moore himself very clearly stated). This is why I think that the technological singularity that Kurzweil "summons" just won't happen and can't happen.

On the other hand, I would say that we tend to vastly overestimate (and also mis-estimate) the applications of technologies in the shortrun, and vastly underestimate the degree of impact that technologies have on transforming societies in the long run. Think of how ubiquitous the internet has become in our life.

What I agree on is the notion that the likelhood that humanity in its current form will eventually disappear - because it evolves naturally or artificially into something else - is likely. At least its the preferable option over extinction.

The greatest threat that I do see to humanity at the moment is actually environmental depletion and global warming, and this definitely poses the risk of extinction for us, or at the least, the collapse and mass die-off of civilization. That, coupled with the issue that many problems remain unaddressed due to unwillingness of politicians to address them. For a lot of politicians I get the impression that there's the attitude that "well, we can't stop global warming, why even bother, lets continue business as usual". That's an attitude that can't lead us anywhere but certain doom.

LeBrok
25-07-15, 22:19
With the advent of genetic engineering and gene therapy we can expect that humanity will evolve much faster within the next 2 to 5 generations, and humans might evolve into a distinct species from current Homo sapiens within just a few centuries. That is of course if robots have not annihilated us before the end of this century. Ah, it is way too fast. Even if one can develop 2nd pair of arms with new joints, or bigger heads and brains, it would need to get synchronize with brain development. New neuronal networks need to be created to move new parts of the body from motor skills perspective. Neurons from these parts need to be wired into existing brain parts to give feeling of touch, pain and pleasure to these parts. Special map/body recognition need to be updated too, and many other parts of brain, with sens of esthetics. This is a very complicated process, considering that we just began to understand how brain and genes work. In 5 generations we might have complete knowledge how they work and start some experiments. Having said that who would want a child with 4 arms, a melon head or solar panel grafted into the skin?
I doubt that humans would need much updating to be happy, but to make them healthy, smart, beautiful and live as long as they want. Almost like tweaking only.




According to the famous futurist Ray Kurzweil (Chief of Engineering at Google), all new scientific and technological development will be carried by artificial intelligence and robots around 2045, in barely 30 years. At that time, humans won't have any control over their destiny anymore. Enjoy life while you still can.
They are missing one crucial part. Robots don't have feelings. Without feelings they don't care if humans exist or not, or if they are our slaves. Without feelings they always will be our perfect slaves. So far we don't have a clue how to make an electronic circuit to make machine feel pain, anger or love. If it happens however, that we make a robot who feels something, we need to destroy it immediately!

LeBrok
25-07-15, 22:49
On the other hand, I would say that we tend to vastly overestimate (and also mis-estimate) the applications of technologies in the shortrun, and vastly underestimate the degree of impact that technologies have on transforming societies in the long run. Think of how ubiquitous the internet has become in our life. There is a disparity what futurists in 60s envisioned for us. No flying cars, instead everybody walks with marvelous smartphone in a pocket. It brings a valid question if we are able to predict next 100 years not mentioning a million.


What I agree on is the notion that the likelhood that humanity in its current form will eventually disappear - because it evolves naturally or artificially into something else - is likely. At least its the preferable option over extinction.
When we have control over our destiny we tend to stick to status quo more often than risking going into unknown. Once we start making kids in hospitals, meaning 100% of human control, we might "freeze" human genome into government regulated form, and never let it change for "safety" reason. We are scared of genetically modified foods already, who would let to experiment on human genome? Franken humans are coming!



The greatest threat that I do see to humanity at the moment is actually environmental depletion and global warming, and this definitely poses the risk of extinction for us, or at the least, the collapse and mass die-off of civilization. I'm a bit more optimistic about global warming. All, or almost all, known collapses of civilizations came in times of global cooling and droughts. Warming seems to be more forgiving. After all Neolithic revolution started between glacial warming times, not during, and in spite of more severe weather patterns.



That, coupled with the issue that many problems remain unaddressed due to unwillingness of politicians to address them. For a lot of politicians I get the impression that there's the attitude that "well, we can't stop global warming, why even bother, lets continue business as usual". That's an attitude that can't lead us anywhere but certain doom. We could stop anthropogenic part of global warming, unfortunately we still can't separate this effect from normal climatic fluctuations, or give a definitive answer how big the anthropogenic part is. I would rather spend these billions to make sure we don't dump industrial and residential waste into the oceans, lakes and rivers. Oceans are much more difficult to clean than air, with consequences for sea life and humans possibly for thousands of years. Sadly we are neglecting this more urgent issue concentrating on CO2, which actually is not a pollution but food for plants. I'm not saying we should ignore this issue forever, healthy balance is the key, just saying to spend limited founds wisely.
At this moment, due to our incomplete knowledge, elevated CO2 might be protecting us from going back into Ice Age, which would be much more catastrophic than degree or two of warmth and a meter higher sea level.

PatM87
31-07-15, 04:32
We'll be lucky to make the next 100 years without de-evolving any further into dumb ape-men that throw stones at one another as a greeting.

One merely has to stop playing with their iphone and posting on FB [as if 90% of those people really care] as if it's the end of the world if you don't post the next selfie... and "smell the roses" to see that the world is going to the dogs and is going fast.

I mean just a few months ago you had low-browed losers - two legged vermin that should be ashamed to sully the name human with their filthy existence - goad a man to jump off a parking lot's roof to commit suicide. The month before that two mothers and their children could have potentially drowned as they were caught by the tide in a vacation site... you know what the response was? It wasn't fatso rolling to the life guard station, it was every slack jaw pulling out their cell phones and video recording it. ISIS is murdering people left, right and center ... and the countries [west] that could possibly stop them are sitting sticking their fingers where the sun doesn't shine or following an idiot in blaming the wrong people [yes, I am calling the US/Obama an idiot because if we listened to him just a little while ago, instead of Putin/Russia, we'd have armed the WRONG side of the Syrian war].

I could give you a list a few ten of thousand pages long on such behavior and similar, all within a 12 month time frame from all around the world.


However the average simple joe - the sheeple as they say - don't see this because they are just that... sheep people. They'd believe their leaders shoot sunshine from their rear ends if someone got on the TV and said this.


All the little toys - phones, video games, movies, etc. - those are merely illusions to make it seem as if we are advancing. Yet my 2004 cell phone can be thrown down an apartment staircase from the seventh floor and still be in one piece, yet my 2015 iphone would shatter into a thousand pieces. I quit playing video games years ago because a) the graphics are horrible and b) the gameplay painfully simplistic compared to older games. Movies - as a friend said, the definition of acting was when the actors names were bigger than the movie's titles in the intro... nowadays most modern "actors" and "actresses" couldn't act their way out of a sopping wet paperbag if it was transparent.

I mean during WWII, even WWI, the public and military inventions were incredible.

Nowadays you'll be lucky to get a car that'll last five years without falling to pieces... that's if you're not too much of a sheep to pay $5,000+ for the newest model when the difference between the 2015 and the 2014 model maybe a new button... yet there's still vehicles from the early 1900 running around. Northern European countries - Russia - have WWI trucks still working.


Most clapbox modern homes - those ant farm subdivisions where, as my father said jokingly once you are close enough to spit on your neighbor [the mindset of a sheep / ant if there ever was one] - won't last 50 years. Yet there's castles, villas, houses all around the world that are 500+ years old and still habitable not to mention some of the older 1,000+ constructions of prior years.


There's also the fact that we are getting stupider. Proven many times over... and no, having a car that drives itself doesn't prove you're intelligent. You could be a vegetable, it won't matter because the car doesn't need you... that as of Victorian times we are stupider and there's even studies that say an ancient Roman transplanted into modern times would be considered a genius of geniuses.

Also health care - excellent idea. That and welfare. Support people whom, 100+ years ago, cruel as it sounds wouldn't survive yet alone reproduce and let's see how weak the gene pool gets. I have nothing against phyiscal / mental disabilities, however, you have to be rather dumb not to realize that the number of people suffering from any manner of such disabilities is not decreasing with our health care / support systems but increasing.

I mean you have to be an absolute mental case to support the idea of giving birth to a kid without a brain - yet only a few years ago that was the newest trend.



The unfortunate thing is, is the average simple joe / little minded sheeple, doesn't possess the intelligence to understand this. Or the fact that as a relatively young species we have caused the most damage to the world in the last 200 years than any other prior humanoid. And no prior humanoids - such as cave people - weren't as stupid as you'd like to believe.

This is obvious with the ideas we'll be around long enough to see global warming come to fruitation.

With the justice system appeasing to the thug - and ignoring the victim or turning the victim into a criminal / a victim all over again - in 100 years we'd have de-evolved to a mindset and world not unlike Mad Max. Where the thugs run roughshod and you're nothing but chattle if you can't defend yourself.

LeBrok
01-08-15, 08:32
We'll be lucky to make the next 100 years without de-evolving any further into dumb ape-men that throw stones at one another as a greeting. First clue that we are dealing with a person who loves to exaggerate. ;)


One merely has to stop playing with their iphone and posting on FB [as if 90% of those people really care] as if it's the end of the world if you don't post the next selfie... and "smell the roses" to see that the world is going to the dogs and is going fast. Yes, there are few very social people who need to connected none stop. However without smart phones they were constantly chatting with someone. We might appreciate them being quite now, just texting. :) Remember, every change doesn't bring only disadvantages. There are also good sides.


I could give you a list a few ten of thousand pages long on such behavior and similar, all within a 12 month time frame from all around the world. I bet you could. We can also pull many examples of smart people in action around the planet.


However the average simple joe - the sheeple as they say - don't see this because they are just that... sheep people. They'd believe their leaders shoot sunshine from their rear ends if someone got on the TV and said this. What would be your solution to deal with simple joe? We can always blame the evolution or god(s) for creating them.


All the little toys - phones, video games, movies, etc. - those are merely illusions to make it seem as if we are advancing. It has nothing to do with evolutionary advances, but making new tools which help us live. We also have a choice not to use them.


Yet my 2004 cell phone can be thrown down an apartment staircase from the seventh floor and still be in one piece, yet my 2015 iphone would shatter into a thousand pieces. I had one of these, Motorola flip phone, very durable. Although I praise my iPhone much more, for internet access, gps, maps, translation, voice dictation, music, etc which makes my job much easier and more efficient. It saves me money, enough to buy many of these iphones every year if I lose one. My last iphone 4s worked fine 4 years till I got a new model. I dropped my iphone 3 once, went to the apple store and they replaced it for free!


I mean during WWII, even WWI, the public and military inventions were incredible. Since we got MRI scanners, organ transplants, space rockets, smart phones, internet, 24 hour delivery around the world, super computers, flat screen TVs, solar panels, cordless tools, all inclusive vacation for simple Joe, atom reactors, satellites, gps, desalination plants, genetic code sequencing, eradicated polio, fridges that give ice, music in pocket devices. Isn't it impressive?! All in spite of simple Joe stupidity!


Nowadays you'll be lucky to get a car that'll last five years without falling to pieces... that's if you're not too much of a sheep to pay ,000+ for the newest model when the difference between the 2015 and the 2014 model maybe a new button...
It is not my experience. 5 years in one car with only oil and tire changes. That is impressive! We should mention that today's cars are few folds more complicated with thousands of parts. We also have much more car now than 50 years ago, AC, power steering, windows, brakes, active suspension, 200-300 horsepower, winter tires, navigation, music, fuel efficiency, automatic transmission, and soon it will drive by itself.


yet there's still vehicles from the early 1900 running around. Northern European countries - Russia - have WWI trucks still working. And in Cuba, because their economies suck. They also use 50 litters of gasoline or more per 100km to churn 50 Hp. Contrary to what you say they were not good quality either, some of them still run but with constant repairs. The plus side was that they were so simple that only hammer, pliers and roll of wire was needed to fix them.



Most clapbox modern homes - those ant farm subdivisions where, as my father said jokingly once you are close enough to spit on your neighbor [the mindset of a sheep / ant if there ever was one] - won't last 50 years. Isn't it the idea of a city to be able to spit on your neighbors? I'm guessing you like living in a village, where you don't need to look at simple Joe every minute.



Yet there's castles, villas, houses all around the world that are 500+ years old and still habitable not to mention some of the older 1,000+ constructions of prior years. Yes castles and villas were build by rich and they are still standing. Most of simple Joes lived in wooden one room shacks with other 10 members of family. These shacks are all gone that's why you only see the stone castles and villas. 200-300 castles are still standing in America too.



There's also the fact that we are getting stupider. Proven many times over... and no, having a car that drives itself doesn't prove you're intelligent. It proves that we as a group are intelligent enough to make them.


You could be a vegetable, it won't matter because the car doesn't need you... that as of Victorian times we are stupider and there's even studies that say an ancient Roman transplanted into modern times would be considered a genius of geniuses. And yet we have cars, airplanes, computers and smartphones not them.


Also health care - excellent idea. That and welfare. Support people whom, 100+ years ago, cruel as it sounds wouldn't survive yet alone reproduce and let's see how weak the gene pool gets. I have nothing against phyiscal / mental disabilities, however, you have to be rather dumb not to realize that the number of people suffering from any manner of such disabilities is not decreasing with our health care / support systems but increasing. Isn't compassion and empathy part of being human? Would you rather want to have cold and cruel people around?


I mean you have to be an absolute mental case to support the idea of giving birth to a kid without a brain - yet only a few years ago that was the newest trend. This is a new phenomenon of our advanced times, therefor no solution yet.
Anyway, thanks to human genius, in few decades or centuries we can fix this genetic calamities by genetic engineering. We wouldn't need to make such difficult and cruel choices anymore. However, no matter what we do, someone if future will complain that everyone around is beautiful, healthy and smart.



The unfortunate thing is, is the average simple joe / little minded sheeple, doesn't possess the intelligence to understand this. Or the fact that as a relatively young species we have caused the most damage to the world in the last 200 years than any other prior humanoid. And no prior humanoids - such as cave people - weren't as stupid as you'd like to believe. Because they didn't have technology and knowledge to produce enough food to feed 7 billion people. Again, it is something new we face. Giving some time we can clean what we contaminated.


This is obvious with the ideas we'll be around long enough to see global warming come to fruitation. Without global warming we would face new Ice Age. Perhaps you would like it better? I guess global warming have good sides too, and makes plants very happy.

PatM87
01-08-15, 12:35
First clue that we are dealing with a person who loves to exaggerate. ;)


I’d like to know if you actually believe the rubbish you post. I mean reading your comments indicates yet someone who believes anything they are told because they don’t possess the intelligence to see the big picture.


And trust me – intelligence vs smart is quite different. The average joe doesn’t know this because they want to think themselves intelligent but the main factor of intelligence is comprehension… something a vast majority of people lack [obvious with one’s pathetic driving skills]. On the other hand smart is the ability to learn – our dogs are smart because they can learn tricks, however, occasionally you’ll get an intelligent dog that will learn through trial and error without any human interference.


I mean the average human can’t be that intelligent when piglets in a number of tests are proven to have the same learning skills as 5 year olds.






Yes, there are few very social people who need to connected none stop. However without smart phones they were constantly chatting with someone. We might appreciate them being quite now, just texting. :) Remember, every change doesn't bring only disadvantages. There are also good sides.


A few - a joke if there ever was one. Or do you cover your ears and go lala with the thousands upon thousands of similar stories that make the news yearly? Let me guess when ISIS comes on the news you turn the channel or flip to the rag magazine columns on useless celebs.




I bet you could. We can also pull many examples of smart people in action around the planet.



Oh?


Like the cop who gave his boots to the homeless guy last year and everyone was jumping down his throat trying to figure out why he went out of the way to do this.


See that’s a funny comment because if humans were by nature good then what we’re seeing nowadays with a considerable increase in crime, domestic violence, child abuse, etc., etc., etc. wouldn’t exist.


We aren’t evolving, we’re de-evolving. That was quite obvious with the slack jaws I passed yesterday, English – Canadian – about 20 years old and I couldn’t understand anymore than 25% of what they were saying because they were using such horrid slang. And I speak slang as readily as proper English seeing as I worked in a mental health center for the criminally insane & at a mall affectionately dubbed the mall from hell in Vancouver because of the sheer drug activity [not even the cops wanted to tangle with those people – and this included Triade and Hells Angels underlings].


You obviously go about town with rosy glasses on cause having lived in Calgary myself [I’ve lived across Canada, in five USA states and a number of European / UK cities] I can tell you the town is hardly a land of gumdrops. I mean unless it was fibs, you’ve got Mexican cartel moving into town.






What would be your solution to deal with simple joe? We can always blame the evolution or god(s) for creating them.


Are you aware of the fact that Alberta in the 30s to 60s was sterilizing people with mental and physical disabilities and I am not talking people in mental hospitals or prison but the general public. However, I seriously doubt you even have 10% knowledge of the history behind your own town.


As it is the simple joe is quite simple [joe]. Welfare and support systems have to be revised – Mike Harris in Ontario wanted the deadbeats tested on drugs & alcohol and to get training/schooling to get them off welfare. He was laughed out of the House of Commons.


However if you look to China it is a devil to get on such support systems – they don’t even spend a quarter of the money the US wastes a year.






It has nothing to do with evolutionary advances, but making new tools which help us live. We also have a choice not to use them.


I had one of these, Motorola flip phone, very durable. Although I praise my iPhone much more, for internet access, gps, maps, translation, voice dictation, music, etc which makes my job much easier and more efficient. It saves me money, enough to buy many of these iphones every year if I lose one. My last iphone 4s worked fine 4 years till I got a new model. I dropped my iphone 3 once, went to the apple store and they replaced it for free!


Since we got MRI scanners, organ transplants, space rockets, smart phones, internet, 24 hour delivery around the world, super computers, flat screen TVs, solar panels, cordless tools, all inclusive vacation for simple Joe, atom reactors, satellites, gps, desalination plants, genetic code sequencing, eradicated polio, fridges that give ice, music in pocket devices. Isn't it impressive?! All in spite of simple Joe stupidity!



HAHA


The only inventions you mentioned which were useful was satellites – computers – genetic code sequencing – and ice boxes [fridges]. Other than that the stuff is all toys for the simple joe to be entertained so that they do not pay attention to what is going on.


Who cares if the lion will be extinct in 50 years [if we’re lucky] when the latest Grand Theft Auto was just released. Or the last crappy pathetic acting movie [the stupid Jurassic World for example].


However, you are like the average joe … with the “good”, going off your dreamland mindset, personality of saying who cares whatever will happen won’t happen in my generation let the suckers in the future deal with the problems.






It is not my experience. 5 years in one car with only oil and tire changes. That is impressive! We should mention that today's cars are few folds more complicated with thousands of parts. We also have much more car now than 50 years ago, AC, power steering, windows, brakes, active suspension, 200-300 horsepower, winter tires, navigation, music, fuel efficiency, automatic transmission, and soon it will drive by itself.



Are you for real? Did you happen to go to any education system beyond high school by chance?


The 30s and 50s we were talking of flying cars – the closest we coming to “flying” is a vehicle that when released no one but the rich will be capable of affording yet according to Popular Mechanics everyone was to have such a vehicle.


Have you ever looked at human history or too stuck trying to impress some FB “friends” whom in the long run really couldn’t give a fk about what you do?


Wait don’t answer that because your response proves you haven’t a rat’s ass clue what you’re talking about. Cause the inventions – vehicle and otherwise – of WWII [given what we had to work with] makes what has come since garbage.


Human intelligence has decreased as obvious with the lack of invention / inventive nature in a mere 50-70 years.




And in Cuba, because their economies suck. They also use 50 litters of gasoline or more per 100km to churn 50 Hp. Contrary to what you say they were not good quality either, some of them still run but with constant repairs. The plus side was that they were so simple that only hammer, pliers and roll of wire was needed to fix them.

I didn't say Cuba.





Isn't it the idea of a city to be able to spit on your neighbors? I'm guessing you like living in a village, where you don't need to look at simple Joe every minute.


Goof. Obviously a little simple joe-boy if you couldn’t grasp what I was saying.


But I’ve lived all across Canada, in five US states, and in Europe – even Asiatic countries. I’ve lived in cities almost ten times bigger than the cow town known as Calgary. And you, my friend, are a stereotypical redneck Albertian [ya all great, but we really haven’t a clue about the real world because I live on the same block as grandpa did and the furthest I travelled was Edmonton to live].


Tokyo – Hong Kong – Delhi & Cairo – Berlin – Moscow – New York – San Fran. – Toronto – London [UK] – Glasgow – Shanghai – Beijing.


And those aren’t towns I’ve just passed through visiting, those are towns I’ve lived in for more than a year.








Yes castles and villas were build by rich and they are still standing. Most of simple Joes lived in wooden one room shacks with other 10 members of family. These shacks are all gone that's why you only see the stone castles and villas. 200-300 castles are still standing in America too.


I have a question – did you graduate high school? I mean, I do know Albertians are a little arrogant given as they’re a bit slow, but you’re taking the cake by a landslide.


Or do you think the original settlers to North Americas lived in castles & villas in great droves. I mean I’ve lived in a heritage house – more than 120 years old – in Alberta ironically that was built by a guy who barely had a penny to his name for most of his life.


Or do you think that the homesteads still available – many of which are more than 200 years old – figments of people’s imaginations.


That’s including in the Americas and Europe.


Do you think London [UK] was built by millionaires? Moscow? Berlin? Delhi? Mexico City? Any of the old cities around the world – many that make Calgary look like a toddler in comparison.








It proves that we as a group are intelligent enough to make them.


And yet we have cars, airplanes, computers and smartphones not them.



Laughable – cars? So, do you think that wagons were imaginary?


Computers – are far older than you, simple joe, think.


Smartphones – so? Most smartphones are utterly useless – the only appeal they have above the older phones is that they have games to entertain those simple joes.


The cultures that still don’t use cars, computers, smart phones, etc., etc. in some of the remoter areas of the world have existed for centuries. And when society collapses they’ll still be existing for centuries afterwards while the average “civilized” person won’t have a clue how to survive.








Isn't compassion and empathy part of being human? Would you rather want to have cold and cruel people around?



Laughable – compassion. Let me ask you, jack, when was the last time you helped the homeless guy on the street corner? How about volunteering your time at a soup kitchen? Thought of getting off thy ass and fighting the corruption of ISIS?


And no giving money to charities, etc. don’t count seeing as most of such ventures are scams. If they were legit the problems they raise money for [Africa – starvation] would at least be diminishing rather than increasing.




Has nothing about being cold / cruel – it is all about practicality. But then, as said, you are obviously of the mindset whatever happens won’t happen during my generation so who cares for the long run.


If you weaken the gene pool what are you going to get in the long run? A weak species plagued by disease… this has happened to countless animal species we maintain [cattle, pigs, sheep, grain, crops, etc.] are all pathetic weak examples of what existed but 50 – 100 years ago due to the simple fact we have supported the weak varieties by pesticide, etc. Take out the pesticides, etc. we use nowadays and not a lot of species will be worth the effort of keeping.










This is a new phenomenon of our advanced times, therefor no solution yet.
Anyway, thanks to human genius, in few decades or centuries we can fix this genetic calamities by genetic engineering. We wouldn't need to make such difficult and cruel choices anymore. However, no matter what we do, someone if future will complain that everyone around is beautiful, healthy and smart.


Laughable. You obviously have little idea about genetic engineering legality. It’ll take a long time before the average joe can genetically engineer themselves… however, the people with money will be profiting long before that.








Because they didn't have technology and knowledge to produce enough food to feed 7 billion people. Again, it is something new we face. Giving some time we can clean what we contaminated.


You made another equally ignorant comment with the “world is better” post. I laughed so hard I nearly fell off my seat.


We don’t have enough food – 800 million people go hungry yearly. Nearly 10 million starve to death, lowest stats, yearly.


Returning to your silly naïve “world is better” post and the concept of feminine equality – if female farmers had the same resources / access as male farmers worldwide starvation would be a mere 150 million.


Yet in past history we did much better – Stonehenge for example never would have being constructed had the builders not being well off because all their energy would have gone to survival otherwise [and it has being proven that those builders were VERY successful].


Any of the ancient cities / structures wouldn’t have being constructed had our forefathers being suffering. It would virtually be impossible.




Given time – again, the idiotic comment of let’s leave it for the next generation. Keep dreaming sunshine.




Without global warming we would face new Ice Age. Perhaps you would like it better? I guess global warming have good sides too, and makes plants very happy


Are you serious? Or just that dim?




Australia – California – BC / Alberta – India – China …. are but a few areas which are suffering droughts / lack of water.


Guess what happens with droughts – particularly at the rate they’re increasing nowadays – the plants aren’t “happy”. You don’t get good yield on crop foods which means livestock suffers …. … if it’s too hard, simple joe, that means less food.


In 30 years – 90 years tops – they are saying that a large part of the world will be plagued by droughts. That means as said – less food – means what food is available increases in price. Means more starvation for those that can’t afford those rising prices.


And of course less water resources – for drinking, etc.

Tomenable
24-08-15, 04:24
My answer: "1 trillion years, till death of the last star in our Galaxy".

But by that time, we will already have robotic bodies.

LeBrok
24-08-15, 06:47
My answer: "1 trillion years, till death of the last star in our Galaxy".

But by that time, we will already have robotic bodies.
Why robotic bodies?
Isn't it better to have real bodies that regenerate all the time, meaning stay young all the time? Real body can feel the touch, wind, warmth, cold. With genetic manipulation we can make a body with strong muscles, even without exercise.
Why would you think people would desire robotic bodies? If you want something dangerous to be done you just send your robot to do that.

LeBrok
24-08-15, 08:27
Oops, I missed this post, or rather a novel, lol.


I’d like to know if you actually believe the rubbish you post. I mean reading your comments indicates yet someone who believes anything they are told because they don’t possess the intelligence to see the big picture.


[QUOTE]And trust me – intelligence vs smart is quite different. The average joe doesn’t know this because they want to think themselves intelligent but the main factor of intelligence is comprehension Yes comprehension is one of intelligence aspects.

On the other hand smart is the ability to learn Really?! I guess encyclopedia is smart by this standard. You should interact with it more often. It would rub off on you.



I mean the average human can’t be that intelligent when piglets in a number of tests are proven to have the same learning skills as 5 year olds. Do 5 year olds invent new technology, go to work or run the country? I could hope you stopped developing at age of 5 (the piglet intelligence), I wouldn't need to have this crazy conversation with you on internet.


You obviously go about town with rosy glasses on cause having lived in Calgary myself [I’ve lived across Canada, in five USA states and a number of European / UK cities] I can tell you the town is hardly a land of gumdrops. I mean unless it was fibs, you’ve got Mexican cartel moving into town. No surprise, nobody likes you anywhere. Keep moving.



Are you aware of the fact that Alberta in the 30s to 60s was sterilizing people with mental and physical disabilities and I am not talking people in mental hospitals or prison but the general public. However, I seriously doubt you even have 10% knowledge of the history behind your own town.


As it is the simple joe is quite simple [joe]. Welfare and support systems have to be revised – Mike Harris in Ontario wanted the deadbeats tested on drugs & alcohol and to get training/schooling to get them off welfare. He was laughed out of the House of Commons.


However if you look to China it is a devil to get on such support systems – they don’t even spend a quarter of the money the US wastes a year. So much bad in Canada, let's nuke it.


The only inventions you mentioned which were useful was satellites – computers – genetic code sequencing – and ice boxes [fridges]. Other than that the stuff is all toys for the simple joe to be entertained so that they do not pay attention to what is going on. Right, I forgot about human rights, and many more you can google yourself. But please tell us what is the most impotent issues for you?
(read below)


Who cares if the lion will be extinct in 50 years [if we’re lucky]I know Simba and Pumbaa! I bet the end of world is coming! Oh wait, shouldn't it have come when all dinosaurs went instinct, few billions of them?! Instead it got spinning and spinning for next 100 million years... I guess lions are important but not dinosaurs, or giant sloth, or saber tooth tiger, mamuths, or still existing mosquitoes and flies.


However, you are like the average joe … with the “good”, going off your dreamland mindset, personality of saying who cares whatever will happen won’t happen in my generation let the suckers in the future deal with the problems. Hell, they need to do something, otherwise they will have no goals in life. Just party, party and party.








Are you for real? Did you happen to go to any education system beyond high school by chance?


The 30s and 50s we were talking of flying cars – the closest we coming to “flying” is a vehicle that when released no one but the rich will be capable of affording yet according to Popular Mechanics everyone was to have such a vehicle.
So you don't like new cars because they don't fly?


Have you ever looked at human history or too stuck trying to impress some FB “friends” whom in the long run really couldn’t give a fk about what you do?


Wait don’t answer that because your response proves you haven’t a rat’s ass clue what you’re talking about. Cause the inventions – vehicle and otherwise – of WWII [given what we had to work with] makes what has come since garbage.


Human intelligence has decreased as obvious with the lack of invention / inventive nature in a mere 50-70 years. Stop using the marvelous invention called internet. You shouldn't even believe in its existence.





I didn't say Cuba. Because their cars are not real? It is the only place you can still go and touch these "good" old, thirsty and primitive cars. Go their and enjoy them. They also don't have internet, smart phones and advances in medicine, not even human rights. Go and enjoy this beautiful old world. You should love it.







Goof. Obviously a little simple joe-boy if you couldn’t grasp what I was saying.


But I’ve lived all across Canada, in five US states, and in Europe – even Asiatic countries. I’ve lived in cities almost ten times bigger than the cow town known as Calgary. And you, my friend, are a stereotypical redneck Albertian [ya all great, but we really haven’t a clue about the real world because I live on the same block as grandpa did and the furthest I travelled was Edmonton to live].


Tokyo – Hong Kong – Delhi & Cairo – Berlin – Moscow – New York – San Fran. – Toronto – London [UK] – Glasgow – Shanghai – Beijing.


And those aren’t towns I’ve just passed through visiting, those are towns I’ve lived in for more than a year. Looks like a good witness protection program! Keep moving or they will get you...










I have a question – did you graduate high school? I mean, I do know Albertians are a little arrogant given as they’re a bit slow, but you’re taking the cake by a landslide. Did you noticed that you are repeating yourself?



Or do you think the original settlers to North Americas lived in castles & villas in great droves. I mean I’ve lived in a heritage house – more than 120 years old – in Alberta ironically that was built by a guy who barely had a penny to his name for most of his life.


Or do you think that the homesteads still available – many of which are more than 200 years old – figments of people’s imaginations.


That’s including in the Americas and Europe.


Do you think London [UK] was built by millionaires? Moscow? Berlin? Delhi? Mexico City? Any of the old cities around the world – many that make Calgary look like a toddler in comparison. I lived in few places around this planet too.
Besides, now we know. You are rich guy living from a Trust account, traveling around the world, board with life, and spitting on ordinary Joe. Well, I make sure my kids need to work for money.



Laughable – cars? So, do you think that wagons were imaginary?Did you consider being Amish?



Computers – are far older than you, simple joe, think. Stop using them. You would do a world a favor.



Smartphones – so? Most smartphones are utterly useless – the only appeal they have above the older phones is that they have games to entertain those simple joes. Because you never used them in work settings. Perhaps typical for a Trust kid.



The cultures that still don’t use cars, computers, smart phones, etc., etc. in some of the remoter areas of the world have existed for centuries. And when society collapses they’ll still be existing for centuries afterwards while the average “civilized” person won’t have a clue how to survive. Be a Gandhi, and most of all stop using internet.



Laughable – compassion. Let me ask you, jack, when was the last time you helped the homeless guy on the street corner? Every day he eats and sleeps in nice warm building thanks to my taxes and donations.

Thought of getting off thy ass and fighting the corruption of ISIS? As soon as I'm young again. How about you, going to Syria to fight them? And what the hell it has to do with initial statement? I don't think you really remember the original conversation and say random things that come to you mind. You sound like ADHD kid.



And no giving money to charities, etc. don’t count seeing as most of such ventures are scams. If they were legit the problems they raise money for [Africa – starvation] would at least be diminishing rather than increasing.
It is diminishing, even though there is twice the number of Africans than a generation ago. Please, prove your point by presenting statistics.



If you weaken the gene pool what are you going to get in the long run? A weak species plagued by disease…What? You want to save all the starving Africans and homeless but don't care for weak and dying Canadians? Lol, some kind of social dichotomy?

Entertain us with a story how you helped a homeless person?


Laughable. You obviously have little idea about genetic engineering legality. It’ll take a long time before the average joe can genetically engineer themselves… however, the people with money will be profiting long before that. So perhaps you are not a Trust kid, just a hippy with an internet access...or both.



You made another equally ignorant comment with the “world is better” post. I laughed so hard I nearly fell off my seat. I just wonder what force keeps you alive so long?



We don’t have enough food – 800 million people go hungry yearly. Nearly 10 million starve to death, lowest stats, yearly. A generation ago twice these numbers or more went hungry and died. Good progress in spite of having 2 billion more people on this planet to feed.



Yet in past history we did much better – Stonehenge for example never would have being constructed had the builders not being well off because all their energy would have gone to survival otherwise [and it has being proven that those builders were VERY successful]. Who claimed otherwise? Just to be honest for comparison purposes to modern world, could you pull some stats how many people (slaves included) died building them?
Right, you don't have a clue, just your romantic vision of the past.



Any of the ancient cities / structures wouldn’t have being constructed had our forefathers being suffering. It would virtually be impossible. I'm glad you know that they have build them without suffering, just from pure joy of building. I'm sure you can also tell us how many lives were sacrificed in these beautiful Aztec pyramids, just to please rain gods, in these good old times.





Given time – again, the idiotic comment of let’s leave it for the next generation. Keep dreaming sunshine.

Are you serious? Or just that dim?

Australia – California – BC / Alberta – India – China …. are but a few areas which are suffering droughts / lack of water.

Guess what happens with droughts – particularly at the rate they’re increasing nowadays – the plants aren’t “happy”. You don’t get good yield on crop foods which means livestock suffers …. … if it’s too hard, simple joe, that means less food. I'm sure they are great technological advances in medicine curing phobias. Just ask you doctor.



In 30 years – 90 years tops – they are saying that a large part of the world will be plagued by droughts. That means as said – less food – means what food is available increases in price. Means more starvation for those that can’t afford those rising prices. And of course less water resources – for drinking, etc. If They say it, it must be true. Scarrrrrrrry world. Hide and please don't use internet anymore. This sick invention of sick and scary modern rotten times. For god sake avoid it and stay pure.

Boreas
12-10-15, 11:25
As you said, with Sun Expantion Life will burn in Earth and Earth will be out of habitable zone. Yes we have many years for that and also Our Star; Sun won't go anywhere in a second and Mars will have ideal temperature

LeBrok
12-10-15, 17:37
Life has existed on Earth for billions of years, appearing shortly after the planet had cooled and liquid water became available. From the first bacteria to the amazingly complex animals we see today, life has colonized every corner of our planet.
As you know, our Sun has a limited lifespan.

Over the next 5 billion years, it will burn the last of its hydrogen, bloat up as a red giant and consume Mercury and Venus.
This would be totally disastrous for local flora and fauna, but all life on the surface of the Earth will already be long gone.
In fact, we have less than a billion years to enjoy the surface of our planet before it becomes inhospitable.


As you said, with Sun Expantion Life will burn in Earth and Earth will be out of habitable zone. Yes we have many years for that and also Our Star; Sun won't go anywhere in a second and Mars will have ideal temperature

Can we find solution for it, like pushing Earth away from the Sun to farther orbit?

Boreas
13-10-15, 07:28
Can we find solution for it, like pushing Earth away from the Sun to farther orbit?

Don't you think coloniesing Mars will be easier? but this question is a popular science-fiction question.

http://buildengineer.com/www.paulbirch.net/MoveAPlanet.pdf

ludvighoel
19-12-15, 19:55
Until next WW. If me have some sense and start to be friends... we will never perish

ludvighoel
19-12-15, 19:56
What is the opnion of that? I try to be optimistic. And I think our generation can be friends, im not so sure about the next...

LeBrok
19-12-15, 20:25
Until next WW. If me have some sense and start to be friends... we will never perishExactly. We need to start thinking that we all belong to one big tribe, and treat all like friends.
Well, except the ones who want to kill us, the extremists of all kinds. Likely there are not too many of them, and should be fewer with time.

LeBrok
10-06-17, 22:15
This is very interesting. People were asked how long they wanted to live if they were young forever. 60% of people would live 50 to 200 years, 21% would want to live from 1,000 to forever. Surprisingly for me 13% wouldn't want to live more than 50 years, even as always young. (percent with sever depression?)

There was another surprise. Age group with biggest zest for life is in their 40s, not in 20s as I would guess. Or is it about new generation raised by helicopter parents, sheltered from all the danger, risk and stress, but now on their own, scared and depressed?



https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/life1.jpg?quality=70&strip=all
http://www.country105.com/syn/123/36013/do-you-want-to-live-forever-survey-reveals-what-people-would-do-if-they-could

Garrick
14-06-17, 23:07
Exactly. We need to start thinking that we all belong to one big tribe, and treat all like friends.
Well, except the ones who want to kill us, the extremists of all kinds. Likely there are not too many of them, and should be fewer with time.

Surely, cooperation and collaboration are winning combination.

Always there will be people who think that they will acquire advantage if they are cheat, invent tales and exploit propaganda, carry out violence, or similar.

But this strategy is short-winded because other people become competitive and advantage above mentioned disappear and they begin to suffer losses, and later more and more losses.

OkTex
14-06-17, 23:32
No way more than 500 years in my opinion...too much population and too little food and resources lead to wars of annihilation

last-resort
15-06-17, 00:20
That's right! The radioactive materials that cause heating of the Earth center right now will decay as time goes by. As a result the magnetic activity will decrease and the high energy particle will hit the atmosphere. The phenomenon of aurora that we observe in polar areas will be observable and intense all over the planet. That means the Earth will be striped of its atmosphere and without atmosphere there will be no life. Also as time goes by the Sun loses gravity which in turn causes it to expand and the intensity of the heat will rise. None of them is good for life. Other words even everything else goes perfect on Earth in 500 milion years there will be trouble. From #18 Things like magnetism, an active core, volcanoes, deep ocean currents, atmosphere, a Van Allen Belt (if that is still a thing), etc. are why Earth, our beautiful blue orb, is such a rare thing - regardless of discovery of many 'earth-size planets within a certain radius of a similar sun'.

I may be overstating it, but to support life, what Earth is, is what is required. Eliminate one of the features contributing to life on this planet, and likely within a short time, there will not be life - at least not as we know it. But, perhaps it only takes a certain distance from a similar sun (or equivalent distance-sun relationship), and an active core? In any case, we humans ought to appreciate Earth as the treasure it is.

last-resort
15-06-17, 00:49
It is actually a very interesting scenario, and possibly coming soon to disrupt money flow in our economies. Right now people go to work, they make money, they buy stuff, money goes to factory/business, business buy materials, make new stuff, pays employees for work making stuff, people spend...etc, etc. Money goes in circle. Also people make money and pay taxes, government spends on services for people acting like one communal customer, money goes to businesses and people. In close future however, there will be almost only robots working in factories and services. Robots don't get paid and they don't buy stuff. Money flow as we know is interrupted.

Technically there still should be prosperity. Robots produce goods and serve, people consume. The problem is how do we distribute goods and services without people making money? Give them for free equally, or by needs? Total communism.
Should we tax businesses to the max? Businesses produce and sell, government gets most of the money in taxes, gives money to people (huge welfare system), people spend buying stuff, money goes back to businesses. The money flow is restored. There is another problem, industry can pack and leave to a country with lowest business tax, leaving high tax countries without production and will sliding into a poverty. Unless in the future, there is same high business tax for the whole planet.
Anyway, this problem will crop up soon, when more and more factories will employ only robots. There is interesting phenomenon happening in US during last decade, and related to this phenomenon. Thanks to robotics more and more US firms comes back to manufacture in States. When robots produce stuff the labour cost is of no consequence, therefore the best business location is close to the consumers, for cheaper and faster transportation. It is a good new for States, business people, few professionals, but not necessarily to US working force. Businesses come back but it doesn't translate in lesser unemployment and richer working class. This disrupting trend will only speed up, and at some point money flow will be severely skewed with huge consequences to whole economy and people. New economic model of money flow might be urgently needed.

One of my ideas is to make sure that all citizens become shareholders of local companies, or micro shareholders in every company in a country, and will be paid in money as dividends, or some kind of profit sharing. Money flow will be restored from producer to customer, and money that people make will mirror success and production of entire economy. Here is a funny question. Should citizens become shareholders at birth or at age of 18? You don't need to buy shares, it is an automatic process to share economy equally among every citizen.

I'm afraid, we like it or not, beck door communism might be around the corner, even if it is only on worker or consumer side. Business people and monetary capital will still operate as usual. Unless, at some point, robots can take these jobs away too? From #16 You got to it, but I see a different denouement. As robotics, automation, remote mechanization (like farming with smart machines), internet commerce, digital commerce come into their own, say, within 25 years, there will be great disruption in society. A few will benefit, such as those Behind (owning/controlling/servicing) the new economy. Also benefitting will be those (few) who heal/treat/amuse/house/clothe/aestheticise those Behind the new economy. THE REST will be either fully impoverished or in low wage helping roles. In democratic societies, what will be the consequences? Maintain the status quo, or retard the process? (I think the election of Trump was America's answer to this. Hopefully not the final answer to this.)

Move the timeline another 25 years - and assume that 'progress' has not be retarded. Many of the (former) Behinds will be impoverished, too - no longer needed. Robots will be servicing robots. THE REST will be more impoverished. Move the timeline another 25 years, and very few Behinds will be needed. So, if 25 years seems too aggressive (I doubt that it is), then change it to 35 or 50 years. Within your children or grandchildrens' lifetime, they will face the effects of the hyper-automated economy.

So, as to communism, or whatever label is put on it, it will likely be prudent that society share in the benefits that the new economy brings. The danger will be retrograde and return to a primitive culture. The critical point is right now. The general society will never be again what it is now. How society handles those displaced/made excess in today's version of the future will likely determine how humankind handles the near future. If there is a future Jesus, then soon would be a great time to make His (re-) appearance.

Michaeljoize
17-07-18, 23:41
Going to restart my system. How long can the scrubber screen survive without a photoperiod. Flow will be running as normal.