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Rethel
01-08-15, 00:05
Of course, it's the Jews!

John, you get me fine idea for a thread!

Koprowski, von Mises, Perski, Bieguń aso who can be couted as Poles and Jews simuntaniosly,
show us, that jewishness as a nationality is a very new and troublesome concept. In XIX and
early XXth centuries many jews opposed this idea, but mostly atheistic and socialistic Jews
wanted to create a new nation, because they didn't fit either to jewish religious community,
and to the nations and states, where they lived, as well.

In Poland was even funny situation, because polish nationalists treated Jews as a nation, so
they started wrote aboute them as Jews (with first big letter) what was protested by jews
(with small first letter) who wanted to be a religious community only - so jews not Jews. :smile:

But the creation of jewish nation create a problem called: who is a Jew?

As you John for example, who are you: Jew or Australian?
(but don't tell me both :) )

There are many different opinions among people in Israel, which excluded some groups.

It's all depend on definition, who is the rightfull jew who can be a Jew. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif

But the problem is even bigger than that!

Semitic people among Jews are only about 19% of all.
But the Hebrew subclade which is common for Hashimides and Levites as well has about 14% of all jewish people.

So, the result is, that LESS than 14% of jews are Isrealites, and less than that are Jews from Judah tribe!

So, creation from religious group a national group make a very big, stupid and mendacious problem,
because most of the Jews, are comming from totaly diffrent parts of the world, and they have nothing
common with ancient Israelites/Jews, Promised Land and such predecessors as Abraham, Jacob and Judah... :rolleyes2:

John Doe
01-08-15, 00:26
John, you get me fine idea for a thread!

Koprowski, von Mises, Perski, Bieguń aso who can be couted as Poles and Jews simuntaniosly,
show us, that jewishness as a nationality is a very new and troublesome concept. In XIX and
early XXth centuries many jews opposed this idea, but mostly atheistic and socialistic Jews
wanted to create a new nation, because they didn't fit either to jewish religious community,
and to the nations and states, where they lived, as well.

In Poland was even funny situation, because polish nationalists treated Jews as a nation, so
they started wrote aboute them as Jews (with first big letter) what was protested by jews
(with small first letter) who wanted to be a religious community only - so jews not Jews. :smile:

But the creation of jewish nation create a problem called: who is a Jew?

As you John for example, who are you: Jew or Australian?
(but don't tell me both :) )

There are many different opinions among people in Israel, which excluded some groups.

It's all depend on definition, who is the rightfull jew who can be a Jew. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif

But the problem is even bigger than that!

Semitic people among Jews are only about 19% of all.
But the Hebrew subclade which is common for Hashimides and Levites as well has about 14% of all jewish people.

So, the result is, that LESS than 14% of jews are Isrealites, and less than that are Jews from Judah tribe!

So, creation from religious group a national group make a very big, stupid and mendacious problem,
because most of the Jews, are comming from totaly diffrent parts of the world, and they have nothing
common with ancient Israelites/Jews, Promised Land and such predecessors as Abraham, Jacob and Judah... :rolleyes2:

The only reason that I'm Jewish is because genetically I'm Ashkenazi, I can't escape it. Australian is a nationality in the form of American, which means it's not really a nation, and if it is, it's the pure form of the immigrant nation, which isn't bound by any ethnicity, unless you're talking about native Australians. Naturally before the rise of ethnic nationalism religion was more important to men, the idea of Christendom united most of Europe, so back then the Jews were treated as outsiders because they weren't Christian. As for the origin of Jews, I mean, Ethiopian Jews almost entirely arose from converts for example, same can be said of Yemenite Jews, but Ashkenazi Jews do seem to have origins not among the Slavs of northeastern Europe, but in the northeastern Mediterranean, would it have been easier if that wasn't the case? Hell, would it have been easier if all Jews in Europe simply converted to Christianity before the rise of ethnic nationalism? Yes, absolutely, but this didn't happen.

Before when I wrote that it's "The Jews' fault" was because someone wrote that a Jewish scientist helped spread AIDS, even if that's the case, does it matter if she was Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Shoe worshipper?

Rethel
01-08-15, 10:01
The only reason that I'm Jewish is because genetically I'm Ashkenazi, I can't escape it.

So you never had in family a jewish identity?

Btw, as I see... you are not so jewish by hg :)
Rather ancient Egypian or something like that... ;)


Australian is a nationality in the form of American, which means it's not really a nation, and if it is, it's the pure form of the immigrant nation, which isn't bound by any ethnicity, unless you're talking about native Australians.

I was trying to fit to anglosaxon definitinos of nationality, which is of course quite different, what is treated as nationality in Eurasia.
But, especially in indoeuropean peoples, it is not so diffrent, if we take back time a couple hundreds or thousands of years depend on region.


but Ashkenazi Jews do seem to have origins not among the Slavs of northeastern Europe, but in the northeastern Mediterranean, would it have been easier if that wasn't the case?

O, this is quite interesting, I never herd about that.
But nevertheless, during 10 centuries of living here, they absorbed some slavic people too...


Before when I wrote that it's "The Jews' fault" was because someone wrote that a Jewish scientist helped spread AIDS, even if that's the case, does it matter if she was Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Shoe worshipper?

First of all, he wrote that it was a Pole :smile:

Rethel
01-08-15, 10:05
:thinking:
I am curious, maybe someone knows: is there among Jews some people or significant
minority who wants to divide Israeliets by born from the proselytes - converts on judaism?

I.e. that this less than 14% would be a some special and only true group which can be treated as Jews?

John Doe
01-08-15, 11:00
So you never had in family a jewish identity?
Not really, basically all my cousins married non Jews


Btw, as I see... you are not so jewish by hg :)
Rather ancient Egypian or something like that... ;)
Perhaps, but these days it's almost exclusive to Ashkenazis





But nevertheless, during 10 centuries of living here, they absorbed some slavic people too...

Yeah, but not to that great of an extent.