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Tomenable
24-08-15, 18:12
RISE431, Leki Male, 2286-2048 BC (proto-Unetice) - he had R1a haplogroup: do we know what exact subclade of R1a was that ???

Concerning Leki Male burial site:

"Kurgan Cemetery in Leki Male - Unique Necropolis of Unetice Culture" (in Polish), by Iwona Hildebrandt-Radke (Poznan University):

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wNn0mqe4HccJ:yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.baztech-article-BUJ5-0052-0032/c/hildebrandt_Cmentarzysko_kurhanowe.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=pl

English abstract: "The burial mound in Łęki Małe is located on the northern side of the Warta–Obra Pradolina, in the plateau cut through by Mogilnica river. An esker adjoins this valley from the west. This elevation, looming over its vicinity, was used as the barrow burial ground. It constituted the most distinctive element of this lowland landscape. The burials of the Unetice culture people, of Early Bronze Age, took place there. Until nowadays four barrows have survived which is a bit more than 20 % of the whole necropolis. The tumuli differ in construction and equipment of main graves, in size of earth-mounds as well as in structure and inside collections of side graves. The unique form of the veneration of the dead may be the significance of social and material diversification within the Únìtice community. The barrows were burial places of the privileged."

Key words: Early Bronze Age, prehistoric burial mound, barrows, earthwork, chamber tomb

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RISE431 was found in barrow IV, which is the largest of four surviving kurgans (originally there were 11, but Germans destroyed 7).

Ancestral Journeys website only says that RISE431 was R1a1a1 M417. And his mtDNA was T2e.

Was it impossible to test his Y-DNA further downstream? Because he surely wasn't basal M417, was he?

bicicleur
25-08-15, 09:50
I don't find Unetice RISE431 R1a
I only find Unetice I2
can you help me?

Tomenable
25-08-15, 15:08
I don't find Unetice RISE431 R1a
I only find Unetice I2
can you help me?

Jean M's "Ancestral Journeys" website describes RISE431 as Corded Ware:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml

But this is how the sample is described in Allentoft's Supplementary Information:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/extref/nature14507-s1.pdf

http://s30.postimg.org/holko5m2p/RISE431.png

They described it as "Corded/proto-Unetice" - and dated this man to 2286-2048 BC.

Their doubts whether it was Unetice probably resulted from early dating of the sample. Previously, this archaeological site (kurgans at Leki Male) was thought to be younger (Polish wikipedia says 1700-1500 BC). However, this archaeological site is classified clearly as Unetice culture by archaeologists - so there is no doubt that it was Unetice, as it possessed all typical characteristics of this culture.

This dating of RISE431 (buried in kurgan IV a.k.a. barrow 4) seems to mean that this site is older than previously thought.

But this dating - though older than expected - also falls within the range of Unetice culture (which emerged ca. 2300 BC).

Either previous dating of these kurgans was wrong, or dating of this RISE431 individual is wrong.

IMHO dating of kurgans was wrong and they are in fact older, but still belonging to Unetice.

bicicleur
25-08-15, 18:04
I didn't find it because it was not labeled Unétice by Jean Manco.
The date corresponds with early Unétice indeed, which was chalcolithic, not bronze yet.
The other I2 Unétice are in Germany, not Poland.
I don't know about subclades for RISE431, but I'd be surprised if it were not downstream of L664 or Z283.

I see you launched the same question on anthrogenica.
If you find more, let me know, I'm interested.

Tomenable
25-08-15, 20:50
I see you launched the same question on anthrogenica.
If you find more, let me know, I'm interested.Yes, and I asked Jean to check that thread. Here is the conversation:


Arriving here by request. As far as I can find out from a quick online search, the barrows at Łęki Małe were dated previously on the contents of one or more of them. Translation: some burials "were richly equipped with ornaments of gold, amber and bronze, including a very impressive and distinctive Unetice culture "scepter dagger", which gave archaeologists a basis for defining them as the tombs of local "princes"."

What we really need is a detailed report, showing what was in Barrow 4.
Here is a publication specifically about Barrow 4 from Leki Male (but it's all in Polish):

https://www.academia.edu/8127839/KURHAN_NR_IV_W_ŁĘKACH_MAŁYCH_GM._KOŚCIAN_ANALI ZA_KONSTRUKCYJNA_OBIEKTU_KULTURY_UNIETYCKIEJ_W_KON TEKŚCIE_OBRZĄDKU_POGRZEBOWEGO_LUDNOŚCI_KULTURY_ UNIETYCKIEJ

Unetice items were found in Barrow 4. But in the last paragraph author suggests that Łęki Małe kurgans could be in use for a long time. And that they could emerge already in Eneolithic (Copper Age) times and later remain in use for several centuries, until Unetice times. Those kurgans were probably related to nearby Unetice culture's Bruszczewo settlement. It is possible that people from Bruszczewo are buried in Łęki Małe.

Some texts in English about Bruszczewo fortified settlement from the Bronze Age:

https://www.academia.edu/14538955/Kościan_Group_of_Únetice_Culture_and_Fortified_S ettlement_in_Bruszczewo._Their_Role_in_Micro-_and_Macro-regional_Exchange

http://www.muzarp.poznan.pl/en/projects/early-bronze-fortified-settlement-in-bruszczewo-research-1964-1968/

Bruszczewo area was probably continuously inhabited since Eneolithic and throughout Unetice times:

https://www.ufg.uni-kiel.de/en/research/projects/bruszczewo-bronze-age-in-the-greater-polish-settlement-cluster-of-koscian-dfg



That is just what we needed. In this paper it says "The age of the burials is determined by a set of ten 14C dates, which place the site in the period 2200–1800 BC (CZEBRESZUK 2001, 84–88)." So as you say, the date for the sampled skeleton is a bit on the early side, but not too dramatically. He could be the earliest burial there. I will add "/Proto-Unetice" to my table.

^ It's nice that we know who is buried there.

This connection between settlement (Bruszczewo) and their cemetery (Leki Male):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruszczewo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Łęki_Małe,_Greater_Poland_Voivodeship

So now we have both I2 and R1a samples from Unetice culture.

============================

Between modern settlements of Łęki Małe and Bruszczewo there is about 15 km:

http://s12.postimg.org/nraxrr16l/Koscian_area.png

http://s12.postimg.org/nraxrr16l/Koscian_area.png

=====================

Edit:

And here more about the Early Bronze Age fortified settlement near Bruszczewo:

About excavations in Bruszczewo ("Bruszczewo - 1000 years before Biskupin"), in Polish:

http://gdansk.naszemiasto.pl/artykul/skansenu-nie-bedzie,99189,art,t,id,tm.html


(...) Prace nad jednym z najbardziej sensacyjnych odkryć archeologicznych ostatnich lat utrudnia fakt, że teren, na którym są prowadzone wykopaliska należy do prywatnych właścicieli.

Bruszczewo, niewielka wioska leżąca pod Śmiglem, w kręgu zainteresowań archeologów znalazła się w latach 60. Regularne prace wykopaliskowe prowadzone przez poznańskie Muzeum Archeologiczne doprowadziły do odkrycia śladów osady. Badacze szukali osiedla z czasów kultury łużyckiej, a znaleźli wyraźnie starsze, bo pochodzące z początków epoki brązu. Przed siedmioma laty archeolodzy, tym razem z Instytutu Prahistorii Uniwersytetu imienia Adama Mickiewicza w Poznaniu, przystąpili do badań, które miały poddać weryfikacji tamto odkrycie. To, co odkopano w Bruszczewie przeszło najśmielsze oczekiwania specjalistów.

Tysiąc lat przed Biskupinem

- Podczas badań odkryliśmy ślady osady obronnej sprzed 4 tysięcy lat – opowiada kierujący wykopaliskami dr hab. Janusz Czebreszuk z Instytutu Prahistorii UAM. - To najstarszy tego typu gród w naszej części Europy. Biskupin powstał niemal dziesięć wieków później. Porównywać obydwa grody to tak, jakby znaleziska z epoki Bolesława Chrobrego zestawiać ze śladami kultury materialnej dwudziestolecia międzywojennego.
(...)

Translation of the bolded part:

"This is the oldest fortified town of this type in our part of Europe. Biskupin was built almost ten centuries later."

As for Biskupin - a documentary in English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc_KLJrD054

bicicleur
25-08-15, 22:48
early Unetice didn't produce bronze, only copper, tough they may have acquired bronze objects through trade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture

Trade[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unetice_culture&action=edit&section=8)]

The Únětice culture had trade links with the British Wessex culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessex_culture). Unetice metalsmiths mainly used pure copper; alloys of copper with arsenic, antimony and tin to produce bronze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze) became common only in the succeeding periods. The cemetery of Singen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singen) is an exception, it contained some daggers with a high tin-content (up to 9%). They may have been produced in Brittany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittany), where a few rich graves have been found in this period. Cornish tin was widely traded as well. A gold lunula (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_lunula) of Irish design has been found as far south as Butzbach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butzbach) in Hessen (Germany).Amber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber) was traded as well, but small fossil deposits may have been used as well as Baltic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_region) amber.

wessex culture controlled the tin mines in Cornwall, produced bronze and had a trading network all over Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessex_culture

wessex culture sold tin ores to Unetice and probably wessex smiths settled among Unetice

the Ore Mountains (Erzgebige https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzgebirge) have tin ores
it was assumed Unétice used this tin, but no traces of tin mining in the Ore Mts during Unétice have been found, and chemical analysis have proven that most bronze objects from Unétice were made with tin ores from Cornwall

this doesn't tell anything about the subclade of RISE431 R1a but it is a little background info