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bicicleur
01-09-15, 10:25
a Thracian has been tested

E1b1b1a1b Z1919







Thracian burial mound
Bulgaria
Stambolovo (T2G2)


850-700 BC
CT
Genetiker 1/9/15


Thracian
Bulgaria
Svilengrad (P192-1)


800-500 BC
E1b1b1a1b Z1919
Genetiker 1/9/15 1+ 0 – op 5 no subclades tested



https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/

he may very well be E-V13

http://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z1919/

who's TRMCA is estimated 4300 years

which would suggest a bronze age spread from the Balkans for E-V13

Angela
01-09-15, 15:22
Exactly as was posited by Dienekes years ago, yes?

From the Sopot and Lengyel remains, it seems it was present, or at least its precursor was present, since the transition from the mid-to-late Neolithic.

Then perhaps current carriers of E-V13 may descend from these lines.

Yetos
01-09-15, 15:27
so it is true that E-V13 entered Balkand after Vincas and para-cultures?

Angela
01-09-15, 16:19
All we can conclude so far is that E-V13 (or its immediate precursor) was already in the areas of the Sopot (and Lengyel) culture in 5000 BC. We have no proof for anything older than that in the Balkans, but we know it was part of the Cardial expansions because it was found in a Cardial site in the western Mediterranean. So, it could have been in the earliest Neolithic of more southern areas of the Balkans for all we know.

It might even be older and have arrived during the Mesolithic.

There's a whole slew of ancient Italian dna being tested...thirty thousand year's worth. It will be interesting to see what it shows.

bicicleur
01-09-15, 17:08
can you tell me more about this Italian dna being tested
is it paleolithic & mesolithic ?

Gravettians arrived 28000 years ago, before were Aurignacians

the grotta dell'Uzzo in Sicily was visited occasionally by HG https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotta_dell%27Uzzo
from 7500 BC it was visited occasionally by fishermen as was the Franchthi cave on the Peleponesos by 11000 BC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchthi_Cave

I expect the fishermen to be G2a (pré-cardial) but maybe we are in for a surprise ?

Angela
01-09-15, 17:42
can you tell me more about this Italian dna being tested
is it paleolithic & mesolithic ?

Gravettians arrived 28000 years ago, before were Aurignacians

the grotta dell'Uzzo in Sicily was visited occasionally by HG https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotta_dell%27Uzzo
from 7500 BC it was visited occasionally by fishermen as was the Franchthi cave on the Peleponesos by 11000 BC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchthi_Cave

I expect the fishermen to be G2a (pré-cardial) but maybe we are in for a surprise ?

I'm going to start a thread for it so it's easier to find.

Sile
01-09-15, 20:28
a Thracian has been tested

E1b1b1a1b Z1919







Thracian burial mound
Bulgaria
Stambolovo (T2G2)


850-700 BC
CT
Genetiker 1/9/15


Thracian
Bulgaria
Svilengrad (P192-1)


800-500 BC
E1b1b1a1b Z1919
Genetiker 1/9/15 1+ 0 – op 5 no subclades tested



https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/

he may very well be E-V13

http://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z1919/

who's TRMCA is estimated 4300 years

which would suggest a bronze age spread from the Balkans for E-V13


these are all the markers of 192.1

CTS10121-, CTS10191-, CTS1065-, CTS10679+, CTS10841-, CTS11541-, CTS11773-, CTS11941-,
CTS1197-, CTS12453-, CTS12454-, CTS12455-, CTS12456-, CTS12487-, CTS1549-, CTS1550-,
CTS1679-, CTS202+, CTS2249-, CTS2699-, CTS2880-, CTS3068-, CTS3069-, CTS3139-, CTS3233-,
CTS3343-, CTS3344-, CTS4221-, CTS4274-, CTS4275-, CTS5198-, CTS6684-, CTS6685-, CTS7298-,
CTS9470-, F1031-, F1502-, F2387-, F2489-, F3165-, F468-, F887-, L1210-, L1313-, L271-,
M10097-, M10129-, M10631-, M10893-, M11080-, M11509-, M205-, M2121-, M2135-, M2332-,
M2441-, M2724-, M2731-, M2951-, M4367-, M4800-, M4971-, M5048+, M5107-, M5679+, M5897-,
M7345-, M7599-, M8597-, M8761-, M8767-, M9598-, PF110-, PF1394-, PF1395-, PF1875+, PF250-,
PF3559-, PF4325-, PF463-, PF4675-, PF4700-, PF4717-, PF553-, PF602-, PF6299-, PF6558-,
PF6579-, PF6969-, PF86-, PF873-, PR1158-, PR1753-, PR1754-, PR2413-, PR2414-, PR5598-,
PR5599-, PR5600-, PR6368-, PR7102-, PR7103-, S12262-, S13039-, S13521+, S14201-, S14207-,
S14208-, S14590-, S14811+, S14846-, S14847-, S14848-, S14849-, S14850-, S14851-, S16478-,
S17609-, S17792-, S18117-, S19968-, S20648-, S20971-, S20982-, S2113-, S2363-, S2368-,
S27138-, S27374-, S27652+, S3129-, S3321-, S3578-, S359-, S3844-, S5092-, S6934-, S7652-,
S777-, S8132-, Y787-, YSC0000006-, YSC0000128-, YSC0000129-, YSC0000130-, YSC0000137+,
YSC0000138+, YSC0000139+, YSC0000140+, YSC0000143-, YSC0000144+, YSC0000145+, YSC0000146+,
YSC0000147+, YSC0000148+, YSC0000149+, YSC0000150+, YSC0000151+, YSC0000153+, YSC0000160-,
YSC0001264-, YSC0001320-, YSC0128-, Z12417-, Z12424-, Z12603-, Z13087-, Z13440-, Z13710-,
Z15104-, Z166-, Z1912-, Z1912-, Z2029-, Z2213-, Z2214-, Z229-, Z2401-, Z2733-, Z2896-,
Z2913-, Z3104-, Z4178-, Z4280-, Z4361-, Z4697-, Z4834-, Z4950-, Z5390-, Z5950-, Z6104-, Z6165-, Z6342-, Z825+, ZS268-

where did he pulled out E-V13 ? ..............at best we have CTS10679 as the only E positive marker and that represent only E1b1b



Below is the mtdna if your are interested
G786A
G791A
C1241T
A1811G
A2758G
G3407A
C3586T
T3594C
G3910T
T4312C
C4320T
T7256C
G7296A
C8145T
G8155A
G8156A
G8165A
T8655C
G9984A
G9986A
C10196T
G10396A
G10398A
G10401A
G10406A
G10407A
T10664C
A10688G
C10873T
C10888T
C10915T
G12372A
C12488T
G12618A
T12705C
T12738C
C12867T
C13185T
G13276A
C13494T
T13506C
C13547T
T13650C
C13782T
C13908T
C13914T
C14008T
A14139G
G15150A
C15402T
T15454C
G15506A
A16129G
C16184A
T16187C
C16190T
T16223C
G16230A
C915T
C1493T
C1495T
C1531T
C1532T
C1533T
G1669A
C3056T
C3057T
C3066T
C3551T
C3657T
C5415T
C5434T
C5435T
C5437T
C5439T
C5440T
C5444T
C5447T
C6206T
G8184A
C8532T
C10064T
C10092T
G10310A
C11804T
C11808T
C11810T
C12181G
A12308G
G13105A
C13136T
C13347T
T13743C
C13967T
C13971T
C14642T
C15468G
C16519T

Maleth
01-09-15, 21:49
where did he pulled out E-V13 ? ..............at best we have CTS10679 as the only E positive marker and that represent only E1b1b



No body pulled out E-V13, Bicicluer mentioned it might be E-V13 and there is nothing wrong in what he stated considering the location. If the dna is checked further downstream its quite possible to be E-V13. If this result would have been checked further downstream it will not be a surprise considering todays available data (as Angela mentioned) (Z1919 is upstream of L618, PF2210, PF2211, V13, V22, and V36). Here is some good info about this SNP:

http://yhrd.org/tools/branch/E1b1b-Z1919

Maleth
01-09-15, 22:11
so it is true that E-V13 entered Balkand after Vincas and para-cultures?

who is claiming this so called truth? If anything it is still very much an unfolding story and you know the data.

Maleth
01-09-15, 22:34
I'm going to start a thread for it so it's easier to find.

Thanks, that is very interesting, looking forward to that.

Yetos
01-09-15, 23:06
who is claiming this so called truth? If anything it is still very much an unfolding story and you know the data.

Maleth
I repeat i am not a racist against nucleotid V-13
simply in Balkans is a puzzle,
the whole balkans is a puzzle
I still keep my opinions about the time entrance of E-V13
I do not believe it is paleolithic, neither epipalaiolithic, although it has possibilities,
plz do not take it personal,

bicicleur
02-09-15, 01:36
these are all the markers of 192.1

CTS10121-, CTS10191-, CTS1065-, CTS10679+, CTS10841-, CTS11541-, CTS11773-, CTS11941-,
CTS1197-, CTS12453-, CTS12454-, CTS12455-, CTS12456-, CTS12487-, CTS1549-, CTS1550-,
CTS1679-, CTS202+, CTS2249-, CTS2699-, CTS2880-, CTS3068-, CTS3069-, CTS3139-, CTS3233-,
CTS3343-, CTS3344-, CTS4221-, CTS4274-, CTS4275-, CTS5198-, CTS6684-, CTS6685-, CTS7298-,
CTS9470-, F1031-, F1502-, F2387-, F2489-, F3165-, F468-, F887-, L1210-, L1313-, L271-,
M10097-, M10129-, M10631-, M10893-, M11080-, M11509-, M205-, M2121-, M2135-, M2332-,
M2441-, M2724-, M2731-, M2951-, M4367-, M4800-, M4971-, M5048+, M5107-, M5679+, M5897-,
M7345-, M7599-, M8597-, M8761-, M8767-, M9598-, PF110-, PF1394-, PF1395-, PF1875+, PF250-,
PF3559-, PF4325-, PF463-, PF4675-, PF4700-, PF4717-, PF553-, PF602-, PF6299-, PF6558-,
PF6579-, PF6969-, PF86-, PF873-, PR1158-, PR1753-, PR1754-, PR2413-, PR2414-, PR5598-,
PR5599-, PR5600-, PR6368-, PR7102-, PR7103-, S12262-, S13039-, S13521+, S14201-, S14207-,
S14208-, S14590-, S14811+, S14846-, S14847-, S14848-, S14849-, S14850-, S14851-, S16478-,
S17609-, S17792-, S18117-, S19968-, S20648-, S20971-, S20982-, S2113-, S2363-, S2368-,
S27138-, S27374-, S27652+, S3129-, S3321-, S3578-, S359-, S3844-, S5092-, S6934-, S7652-,
S777-, S8132-, Y787-, YSC0000006-, YSC0000128-, YSC0000129-, YSC0000130-, YSC0000137+,
YSC0000138+, YSC0000139+, YSC0000140+, YSC0000143-, YSC0000144+, YSC0000145+, YSC0000146+,
YSC0000147+, YSC0000148+, YSC0000149+, YSC0000150+, YSC0000151+, YSC0000153+, YSC0000160-,
YSC0001264-, YSC0001320-, YSC0128-, Z12417-, Z12424-, Z12603-, Z13087-, Z13440-, Z13710-,
Z15104-, Z166-, Z1912-, Z1912-, Z2029-, Z2213-, Z2214-, Z229-, Z2401-, Z2733-, Z2896-,
Z2913-, Z3104-, Z4178-, Z4280-, Z4361-, Z4697-, Z4834-, Z4950-, Z5390-, Z5950-, Z6104-, Z6165-, Z6342-, Z825+, ZS268-



were did you find this info?

according to Genetiker he was also positive for E1b1b1-V68-M78-Z1919-V1083/CTS202/Z825, same as in your list
on the other hand he was negative for E-M5428
which is a contradiction

Ike
02-09-15, 02:13
... a lot of marker data numbers and letters ..
This is becoming too cumbersome :)

Maleth
02-09-15, 18:59
Maleth
I repeat i am not a racist against nucleotid V-13
simply in Balkans is a puzzle,
the whole balkans is a puzzle
I still keep my opinions about the time entrance of E-V13
I do not believe it is paleolithic, neither epipalaiolithic, although it has possibilities,
plz do not take it personal,

Much of the migration story is still a puzzle and it will be so for quite a while to come. There is nothing personal about it just stating facts as they come. Of course you are not racist, how can a patriotic Greek be a racist against his own people ;) :)