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Sile
15-09-15, 22:09
full article link below

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/30/9190.full

The Kura-Araxes cultural tradition existed in the highlands of the South Caucasus from 3500 to 2450 BCE (before the Christian era). This tradition represented an adaptive regime and a symbolically encoded common identity spread over a broad area of patchy mountain environments. By 3000 BCE, groups bearing this identity had migrated southwest across a wide area from the Taurus Mountains down into the southern Levant, southeast along the Zagros Mountains, and north across the Caucasus Mountains. In these new places, they became effectively ethnic groups amid already heterogeneous societies. This paper addresses the place of migrants among local populations as ethnicities and the reasons for their disappearance in the diaspora after 2450 BCE.

Fluffy
16-09-15, 04:15
Interesting. Thanks Sile!

Goga
27-10-15, 15:24
Ancestors of proto-Armenians? It's possible that these people became later known as Urartu, Hurrians.


http://s18.postimg.org/4kyfhxxdl/urartu.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Maykop_culture-en.svg

Goga
27-10-15, 15:40
It's a well-known fact that the Hurrians lived in Kurdistan. But It seem that those Hurrians came to Kurdistan from the Caucasus and lived next to native Sumerians (proto Iranid Mitanni/Kassites), so those Hurrians were not native to Kurdistan.

Hurrians that migrated into Armenia became later known as Urartu, ancestors of Armenians

MOESAN
01-11-15, 01:31
@ Goga:
Sumerians = proto-Mitanni and Kassiti ??? some basis aside the geographic proximity?
thanks beforehand

Goga
01-11-15, 22:15
@ Goga:
Sumerians = proto-Mitanni and Kassiti ??? some basis aside the geographic proximity?
thanks beforehand
Let me start with the Mittani.

The kingdom of Mitanni was the very first Aryan super state in the world. The capital of Mitanni was Washukanni. Washukanni is located in Rojava, western Kurdistan. Northern Kurdistan, Rojava and Ezdixan (Shengal + Shexan) were all part of the Mitanni kingdom.

Kings of Mitanni had all Iranid names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Mitanni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Mitanni)


Now about the Kassites. Kassites were the eastern neighbours of Mitanni. Kassites lived in the Zagros moutains, in the eastern parts of Kurdistan. Their homeland was in the Zagros Mountains. Also the kings of the Kassites had all the Iranid names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassites)

The Kassites even called their kingdom: Kardunyash



Now back to the Sumerians. The original Sumerians invaded the southern parts of the Mesopotamia from the northern (Kurdish Zagros) Mountains.

Like the Sumerians, Mitanni and Kassites were the Sun-worshipers. After the Sumerians disappeared from history, the Mitanni and Kassites came to power.

From the recent discoveries about the epic of Glgamesh, historians found out that that epic took place in Kurdistan (in the mountains) and not in southern Iraq (desert, southern Mesopotamia).

Relics in Kurdistan to Change History: (http://english.shafaaq.com/interviews/5689-relics-in-kurdistan-to-change-history.html)http://english.shafaaq.com/interviews/5689-relics-in-kurdistan-to-change-history.html (http://english.shafaaq.com/interviews/5689-relics-in-kurdistan-to-change-history.html)



"The Sumerian people who did not come down from the mountain to Sumer are thought to have later became the Kurds or the Chaldeans of the Bible. Sumer was later absorbed into Babylon."

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/A-Brief-History-Of-The-OT (http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/A-Brief-History-Of-The-OT)

MOESAN
05-11-15, 19:40
Thanks Goga, I 'll read it.

MOESAN
08-11-15, 23:52
Let me start with the Mittani.

The kingdom of Mitanni was the very first Aryan super state in the world. The capital of Mitanni was Washukanni. Washukanni is located in Rojava, western Kurdistan. Northern Kurdistan, Rojava and Ezdixan (Shengal + Shexan) were all part of the Mitanni kingdom.

Kings of Mitanni had all Iranid names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Mitanni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Mitanni)


Now about the Kassites. Kassites were the eastern neighbours of Mitanni. Kassites lived in the Zagros moutains, in the eastern parts of Kurdistan. Their homeland was in the Zagros Mountains. Also the kings of the Kassites had all the Iranid names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassites)

The Kassites even called their kingdom: Kardunyash



Now back to the Sumerians. The original Sumerians invaded the southern parts of the Mesopotamia from the northern (Kurdish Zagros) Mountains.

Like the Sumerians, Mitanni and Kassites were the Sun-worshipers. After the Sumerians disappeared from history, the Mitanni and Kassites came to power.

From the recent discoveries about the epic of Glgamesh, historians found out that that epic took place in Kurdistan (in the mountains) and not in southern Iraq (desert, southern Mesopotamia).

Relics in Kurdistan to Change History: (http://english.shafaaq.com/interviews/5689-relics-in-kurdistan-to-change-history.html)http://english.shafaaq.com/interviews/5689-relics-in-kurdistan-to-change-history.html (http://english.shafaaq.com/interviews/5689-relics-in-kurdistan-to-change-history.html)



"The Sumerian people who did not come down from the mountain to Sumer are thought to have later became the Kurds or the Chaldeans of the Bible. Sumer was later absorbed into Babylon."

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/A-Brief-History-Of-The-OT (http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/A-Brief-History-Of-The-OT)


Goga, I found nothing in your links concerning the names of Kassites; I'm not a iranian languages specialist so I can say nothing but what I red says their names was easily identified as Kassitic, no mention of Iranic - they would have spoken a language akin to Hurrianic or Urartianic (sorry for my unsure namings); some say they would have been IN CONTACT with I-Eans -
also nothing saying Sumerian was Indo-European language; Gilgamesh 's saga could have related adventures in Kurdistan, it doesn't prove anything about his origin in these mountains - we have a lot of legends where heroes travels very far -
That Kurds (or some of their ancestors) could be linked to Kassites is not impossible, by the fact it would signify these very Kurds were not I-Eans at first before iranization.
I think we need more proofs of your affirmations about filiations of ancient people.
reverting to Kura-Araxes, they seem having links with East, not being autochtonous in South-Caucasus, at first. The "Ïndus" auDNA found by Russians among Eastern North Caucasus people speaking languages seemingly close to Hurrartian could confirm that; maybe acquired before Iranians tribes introgressions...
Sorry, I stay "hungry" (not angry)

Goga
09-11-15, 15:15
Goga, I found nothing in your links concerning the names of Kassites; I'm not a iranian languages specialist so I can say nothing but what I red says their names was easily identified as Kassitic, no mention of Iranic - they would have spoken a language akin to Hurrianic or Urartianic (sorry for my unsure namings); some say they would have been IN CONTACT with I-Eans -
also nothing saying Sumerian was Indo-European language; Gilgamesh 's saga could have related adventures in Kurdistan, it doesn't prove anything about his origin in these mountains - we have a lot of legends where heroes travels very far -
That Kurds (or some of their ancestors) could be linked to Kassites is not impossible, by the fact it would signify these very Kurds were not I-Eans at first before iranization.
I think we need more proofs of your affirmations about filiations of ancient people.
reverting to Kura-Araxes, they seem having links with East, not being autochtonous in South-Caucasus, at first. The "Ïndus" auDNA found by Russians among Eastern North Caucasus people speaking languages seemingly close to Hurrartian could confirm that; maybe acquired before Iranians tribes introgressions...
Sorry, I stay "hungry" (not angry)
My friend, you're making many assumptions I never made. I never said that the Sumerian was an Indo-European language.

I'm saying that there are connections between the Sumerian and Indo-European. Both influenced each other. Aryan/Iranic languages can be evolved partly from the Sumerian. You can find everything about it on this site :

" Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection "
" Gamkrelidze and Ivanov noticed a few terms that can be Sumerian loanwords into Indo-European. Then Gordon Whittaker, since 1998, has identified the so-called Euphratic, a foreign substratum or superstratum in Sumerian, with an Indo-European language. "

http://new-indology.blogspot.nl/2015/05/sumerian-and-indo-european-surprising.html

Sumerians were not native in Southern parts of Mesopotamia. They came from the mountains.


And now about the Kassites.

Kassites originated in the Zagros, in the region between Hamadan-Kermanshah, SouthEast Kurdistan. Names of the Kassite Kings sound very Iranic, like Karaindash and Shagarakti-Shuriash.

Also the Kassites Gods were related to Indo-European GODS:

" Kassite Gods Many Kassite Gods have names in the Indo-European languages. Some names can be closely identified with the names of Gods in Sanskrit, notably Kassite Suriash (Sanskrit Surya); Maruttash (Sanskrit, the Maruts); and possibly Shimalia (the Himalaya Mountains in India). The Kassite storm god Buriash (Uburiash, or Burariash) has been identified with the Greek God Boreas, the God of the North Wind "

Kassites called their SUN God Suriash in Sanskrit it has been called Surya.

More about it: http://piereligion.org/kassite.html


Also,

" Possible Kassite Aryan or Indo-Iranian Connections

there is a similarity in their pantheon of deities and the Indo-Aryan daeva pantheon (Bloomfield, 1904; Balkan, 1986, p. 8; Eilers, 1957-58, p. 136 ad surya-) and they exhibited various Aryan traits as well. This combination of traits could have made them acceptable to the people they governed, allowing them to rule with the consent of the ruled. The Aryan traits were as follows:

- Outward Cultural Integration
- Religious Tolerance & Ecumenis
- Trade & Economic Prosperit
- Governance & Orde
- Deities & Names "

more about it:http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/ranghaya/kassites.htm

Goga
09-11-15, 15:24
The "Ïndus" auDNA found by Russians among Eastern North Caucasus people speaking languages seemingly close to Hurrartian could confirm that; maybe acquired before Iranians tribes introgressions...
Sorry, I stay "hungry" (not angry)
The ASI auDNA component in Northern Caucasus is most likely from the West Iranic people (the Medes) and from East Iranic folks from BMAC. It's a proven fact that in that part of the world lived many Iranic tribes, like Sarmatians, Alanians, and maybe-Iranic speaking people like Scythians and Iranic speaking Cimmerians.

I guess that with 'Indus' auDNA you do mean ASI. ALL Iranic people have some ASI in them. I'm sure that ancient proto-Iranic tribes had also much of ASI in them. ASI on the Iranian Plateau and Central Asia is very ancient..