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View Full Version : MDLP K13 Coming Soon to GEDmatch



elghund
17-09-15, 17:42
The forum members at Anthrogenica have been crowdfunding Vadim Verenich for his work on his new MDLP K13 calculator (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5157-Crowfunding-Intiative-for-the-new-MDLP-K13-calculator). They have raised the goal amount and he is expected to upload the new calculator to GEDmatch very soon.

JS Bach
06-10-15, 04:36
The calculator is now on Gedmatch. I ran some of the oldest ancient samples through it and got the following results:




Population
Kennewick
Man
Anzick 1
Mal'ta
Boy
Motala
12
Palaeo-
Eskimo
Kostenki
14
Ust'-
Ishim
Loschbour
La Brana
Stuttgart


Amerindian
69.19%
93.01%
17.57%
3.34%
0.13%
2.43%
0.76%
-
-
-


ANE
-
1.53%
35.46%
4.59%
5.31%
13.51%
18.93%
-
-
-


Arctic
13.06%
2.84%
10.07%
2.15%
39.76%
1.64%
2.36%
-
-
-


ASI
-
-
6.22%
-
-
9.42%
16.30%
-
-
-


Caucas-Gedrosia
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
20.22%


EastAsian
0.86%
1.23%
-
-
6.38%
2.93%
18.45%
0.85%
2.96%
-


ENF
0.96%
0.37%
-
29.52%
2.38%
21.67%
6.55%
41.49%
36.25%
59.47%


NearEast
-
-
-
-
-
8.28%
2.72%
-
-
12.66%


Oceanian
1.58%
-
1.03%
2.53%
-
6.89%
14.17%
0.82%
1.12%
-


Paleo-African
-
0.17%
-
-
0.10%
2.31%
0.39%
0.21%
-
-


Siberian
6.01%
-
-
-
34.48%
4.09%
3.06%
0.27%
-
-


Subsaharian
1.78%
0.54%
0.28%
-
6.66%
4.16%
13.86%
-
-
-


WHG-UHG
6.57%
0.27%
29.37%
57.87%
4.80%
22.66%
2.44%
56.37%
59.65%
7.65%





With the exception of Stuttgart, all were lacking the Caucas-Gedrosia component, and all but the two oldest samples were missing the NearEast component.

Kennewick Man has no ANE, but Anzick 1 and Motala 12 have some.

Anzick 1 has far more Amerindian than Palaeo-Eskimo and Kennewick Man. Palaeo-Eskimo 0.13% Amerindian?

Kennewick Man has some WHG/UHG. Palaeo-Eskimo also has some and Anzick 1 has a tiny bit, but Mal'ta Boy has 29.37%?

Many of them have a fair amount of African, especially Subsaharian. Palaeo-Eskimo 6.66%?

Regio X
06-10-15, 05:54
Pretty good!

Of all Gedmatch calculators, MDLP K13 Oracle gave me the shortest distance to a specific population: 1,01.

Sile
06-10-15, 20:21
i ran mine, plus father, son and wife and we all hover around what is mine below

MDLP K13 'Ultimate' Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ENF 42.62
2 WHG-UHG 18.33
3 ANE 16.06
4 Caucas-Gedrosia 15.72
5 NearEast 6.62


Finished reading population data. 662 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italy-Friul @ 2.720182
2 Swiss @ 3.431403
3 Occitan @ 3.675497
4 Italian_Piedmont @ 5.612669
5 Montenegro @ 5.804489
6 Italy_North @ 5.912798
7 Romanian @ 7.373199
8 Portugese @ 7.597455
9 Italian_Bergamo @ 7.735450



portuguese ???
Talking to some from ftdna who are mixed north-italian and galician/portuguese , they state there was some migration back and forth between the areas. It seems to have begun in the 16th century after some Venetian explorers served under the king of Portugal, Henry to discover the west coast of Africa, as per........Alvise da Mosto to name the most famous one. His autobiography is interesting.

elghund
06-10-15, 21:28
The calculator is now on Gedmatch. I ran some of the oldest ancient samples through it and got the following results:




Population
Kennewick
Man
Anzick 1
Mal'ta
Boy
Motala
12
Palaeo-
Eskimo
Kostenki
14
Ust'-
Ishim
Loschbour
La Brana
Stuttgart


Amerindian
69.19%
93.01%
17.57%
3.34%
0.13%
2.43%
0.76%
-
-
-


ANE
-
1.53%
35.46%
4.59%
5.31%
13.51%
18.93%
-
-
-


Arctic
13.06%
2.84%
10.07%
2.15%
39.76%
1.64%
2.36%
-
-
-


ASI
-
-
6.22%
-
-
9.42%
16.30%
-
-
-


Caucas-Gedrosia
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
20.22%


EastAsian
0.86%
1.23%
-
-
6.38%
2.93%
18.45%
0.85%
2.96%
-


ENF
0.96%
0.37%
-
29.52%
2.38%
21.67%
6.55%
41.49%
36.25%
59.47%


NearEast
-
-
-
-
-
8.28%
2.72%
-
-
12.66%


Oceanian
1.58%
-
1.03%
2.53%
-
6.89%
14.17%
0.82%
1.12%
-


Paleo-African
-
0.17%
-
-
0.10%
2.31%
0.39%
0.21%
-
-


Siberian
6.01%
-
-
-
34.48%
4.09%
3.06%
0.27%
-
-


Subsaharian
1.78%
0.54%
0.28%
-
6.66%
4.16%
13.86%
-
-
-


WHG-UHG
6.57%
0.27%
29.37%
57.87%
4.80%
22.66%
2.44%
56.37%
59.65%
7.65%





Interesting that the Loschbour sample, a mesolithic European hunter gatherer, has an ENF score as high as the average modern English person.

Regio X
06-10-15, 22:30
i ran mine, plus father, son and wife and we all hover around what is mine below

MDLP K13 'Ultimate' Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ENF 42.62
2 WHG-UHG 18.33
3 ANE 16.06
4 Caucas-Gedrosia 15.72
5 NearEast 6.62


Finished reading population data. 662 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italy-Friul @ 2.720182
2 Swiss @ 3.431403
3 Occitan @ 3.675497
4 Italian_Piedmont @ 5.612669
5 Montenegro @ 5.804489
6 Italy_North @ 5.912798
7 Romanian @ 7.373199
8 Portugese @ 7.597455
9 Italian_Bergamo @ 7.735450



portuguese ???
Talking to some from ftdna who are mixed north-italian and galician/portuguese , they state there was some migration back and forth between the areas. It seems to have begun in the 16th century after some Venetian explorers served under the king of Portugal, Henry to discover the west coast of Africa, as per........Alvise da Mosto to name the most famous one. His autobiography is interesting.Likely there were migrantions back and forth between Venezia and several areas, after all it was a trading power.

My first seven populations are the same, but in eighth I got Bulgaria. Portuguese was the sixteenth.

MOESAN
09-10-15, 16:56
Don't make to much sense for me...

Angela
09-10-15, 17:54
Don't make to much sense for me...

Me neither.

The percentages for the "named" components are not correct, specifically for "ENF", as we now know.

Also, those are terrible FST fits. If it's not under 1, it's not "getting" you.

John Doe
09-10-15, 19:25
23andme




Population



Amerindian
-


ANE
10.68%


Arctic
-


ASI
-


Caucas-Gedrosia
29.66%


EastAsian
-


ENF
34.60%


NearEast
12.82%


Oceanian
-


Paleo-African
-


Siberian
-


Subsaharian
1.60%


WHG-UHG
10.64%








Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Ashkenazi_Jew
3.27


2
AshkenaziJew
3.76


3
Italian
3.94


4
Ashkenazy
4.45


5
Italian_EastSicilian
4.56


6
Italy_South
4.59


7
Sicilian
5


8
Maltese
5.33


9
Italian_WestSicilian
5.91


10
Greek_WGA
6.04


11
Cretan
6.11


12
Italian_South
6.24


13
North_Greek
6.37


14
South_Greek
6.55


15
Italian_Jew
6.87


16
Sephardic
6.9


17
Greek
6.92


18
Italian_Abruzzo
7.44


19
Sephardi_Jew
7.57


20
Greek_Coriell
7.68



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

66.5%
Ashkenazi_Jew
+
33.5%
Greek_WGA
@
1.41


2

51.5%
Druze
+
48.5%
Spanish
@
1.49


3

52.1%
Druze
+
47.9%
Spain
@
1.56


4

61.7%
Albanian
+
38.3%
Samaritian
@
1.57


5

74.7%
Greek_Comas
+
25.3%
Yemenite_Jew
@
1.59


6

58.6%
Albanian
+
41.4%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
1.6


7

84.4%
Greek_WGA
+
15.6%
Yemen
@
1.63


8

72.6%
Greek_Comas
+
27.4%
BedouinA
@
1.65


9

65.7%
South_Greek
+
34.3%
Tunisian_Jew
@
1.68


10

52.7%
Druze
+
47.3%
Spanish_Baleares_IBS
@
1.7


11

65.1%
Albanian
+
34.9%
Palestinian
@
1.74


12

66.4%
North_Greek
+
33.6%
Tunisian_Jew
@
1.82


13

63.5%
Italy_North
+
36.5%
Druze
@
1.89


14

67.5%
Greek_Comas
+
32.5%
Palestinian
@
1.89


15

72.1%
South_Greek
+
27.9%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
1.91


16

64.2%
AshkenaziJew
+
35.8%
Greek_WGA
@
2.01


17

61.2%
Greek_Comas
+
38.8%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
2.02


18

55.6%
South_Greek
+
44.4%
Turk_Jew
@
2.03


19

64.6%
Greek
+
35.4%
Tunisian_Jew
@
2.04


20

64.3%
Greek_Comas
+
35.7%
Samaritian
@
2.06




Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Druze +50% Spanish @ 1.799217


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Baleares_IBS +25% Turk_Trabzon +25% Yemenite_Jew @ 1.256381


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 BedouinA + Greek_Comas + Greek_Comas + Greek_WGA @ 0.698157
2 Albanian + BedouinA + Greek_Comas + Greek_WGA @ 0.951065
3 Basque_Spanish + Gagauz + Turk_Trabzon + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.028951
4 Greek_WGA + Italian_South + Italy-Friul + Palestinian @ 1.048463
5 Armenian_WGA + France + Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.086641
6 Bulgarian + Corsican + Druze + Moroccan_Jew @ 1.092415
7 Armenian_WGA + BedouinA + Spain + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 1.108633
8 Basque_Spanish + Bulgarian + Turk_Trabzon + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.130223
9 Greek_Comas + Italian_South + Italy_North + Palestinian @ 1.131302
10 Christian-Arabs-Israel + Croatian + Italian_South + Italian_South @ 1.136656
11 Christian-Arabs-Israel + Cypriot + Italy_South + United-Kingdom @ 1.136942
12 Bulgarian + French_South + Turk_Trabzon + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.140935
13 Greek_Coriell + Italian_Jew + Samaritian + United-Kingdom @ 1.145115
14 Croatian + Italian_South + Italian_South + Samaritian @ 1.153069
15 Armenian_WGA + French + Spanish_Valencia_IBS + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.159247
16 Greek_Coriell + Moroccan_Jew + Samaritian + United-Kingdom @ 1.162209
17 Druze + Sephardi_Jew + Sicilian + United-Kingdom @ 1.164503
18 Druze + Italian_Jew + Sicilian + United-Kingdom @ 1.173723
19 Christian-Arabs-Israel + Cypriot + Italian + United-Kingdom @ 1.175061
20 Bulgarian + Christian-Arabs-Israel + Greek_Comas + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.180433

FTDNA





Population



Amerindian
-


ANE
12.25%


Arctic
-


ASI
-


Caucas-Gedrosia
28.83%


EastAsian
-


ENF
34.30%


NearEast
12.77%


Oceanian
-


Paleo-African
0.07%


Siberian
-


Subsaharian
1.15%


WHG-UHG
10.64%






Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
AshkenaziJew
2.63


2
Ashkenazi_Jew
2.63


3
Italian
3.19


4
Ashkenazy
3.35


5
Italy_South
3.72


6
Italian_EastSicilian
4.9


7
Sicilian
5.01


8
North_Greek
5.57


9
Cretan
5.76


10
South_Greek
5.84


11
Maltese
5.95


12
Italian_WestSicilian
5.99


13
Greek
6.07


14
Greek_WGA
6.52


15
Sephardic
6.75


16
Italian_Abruzzo
6.78


17
Italian_Jew
7.09


18
Italian_South
7.34


19
Central-Greek
7.48


20
Sephardi_Jew
7.61



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

74.2%
South_Greek
+
25.8%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
0.74


2

61.1%
Kosovo
+
38.9%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
0.97


3

72.7%
AshkenaziJew
+
27.3%
Greek_WGA
@
1.02


4

60.4%
North_Greek
+
39.6%
Turk_Jew
@
1.09


5

72.9%
Ashkenazi_Jew
+
27.1%
Greek_WGA
@
1.11


6

65.4%
Albanian
+
34.6%
Palestinian
@
1.14


7

58.3%
Greek
+
41.7%
Turk_Jew
@
1.16


8

59.3%
South_Greek
+
40.7%
Turk_Jew
@
1.16


9

76.6%
South_Greek
+
23.4%
Samaritian
@
1.22


10

54.3%
Macedonian
+
45.7%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
1.25


11

81.6%
Ashkenazi_Jew
+
18.4%
Greek_Comas
@
1.26


12

73.7%
Greek
+
26.3%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
1.26


13

70.2%
North_Greek
+
29.8%
Tunisian_Jew
@
1.27


14

75.4%
North_Greek
+
24.6%
Christian-Arabs-Israel
@
1.28


15

63.9%
Kosovo
+
36.1%
Samaritian
@
1.29


16

71.3%
Ashkenazi_Jew
+
28.7%
South_Greek
@
1.31


17

64.6%
Italy_North
+
35.4%
Druze
@
1.33


18

64.3%
Turk_Jew
+
35.7%
Bulgarian
@
1.34


19

72%
North_Greek
+
28%
Libyan_Jew
@
1.36


20

70.6%
Ashkenazi_Jew
+
29.4%
North_Greek
@
1.36




‚ÄčLeast-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 2.655352
2 AshkenaziJew @ 2.826401
3 Italian @ 3.415303
4 Ashkenazy @ 3.567406
5 Italy_South @ 4.051436
6 Italian_EastSicilian @ 5.200768
7 Sicilian @ 5.316697
8 North_Greek @ 5.820086
9 South_Greek @ 6.043391
10 Cretan @ 6.233893
11 Maltese @ 6.267737
12 Italian_WestSicilian @ 6.338015
13 Greek @ 6.384303
14 Sephardic @ 6.738529
15 Greek_WGA @ 7.011180
16 Italian_Jew @ 7.082055
17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 7.282673
18 Sephardi_Jew @ 7.581856
19 Central-Greek @ 8.126144
20 Italian_South @ 8.156810

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Druze +50% Spanish @ 1.507332


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Druze +25% Occitan +25% Spanish_Galicia_IBS @ 0.870674


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Albanian + Bulgarian + Samaritian + Turk_Jew @ 0.000000
2 Greek_WGA + Italy_North + Palestinian + South_Greek @ 0.000000
3 Christian-Arabs-Israel + Greek_WGA + Serbian_B-H + Turk_Jew @ 0.263070
4 Italian_South + Italian_Tuscan + Macedonian + Palestinian @ 0.263853
5 Bulgaria + Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS + Turk_Trabzon + Yemenite_Jew @ 0.268136
6 Christian-Arabs-Israel + Druze + French + Kosovo @ 0.278391
7 Bulgarian + Italian_South + Italian_Tuscan + Palestinian @ 0.357617
8 Albanian + Bulgaria + Samaritian + Turk_Jew @ 0.371145
9 Corsican + Druze + Serbian_Serbia + Turk_Jew @ 0.376883
10 Bosnian + Christian-Arabs-Israel + Greek_WGA + Turk_Jew @ 0.381499
11 Ashkenazi_Jew + Christian-Arabs-Israel + Italian_South + Serbian_B-H @ 0.403297
12 AshkenaziJew + Christian-Arabs-Israel + Italian_South + Serbian_B-H @ 0.405758
13 Druze + European_Utah + Italian_EastSicilian + Turk_Jew @ 0.432189
14 Albanian + Bulgaria + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan_Jew @ 0.433011
15 Christian-Arabs-Israel + Croatian + Greek_WGA + Turk_Jew @ 0.457226
16 Italian_South + Samaritian + Serbian_B-H + Sicilian @ 0.462630
17 Greek_Comas + Lebanese_Christian + Serbian_B-H + Tunisian_Jew @ 0.473945
18 Bulgaria + Italian_South + Italian_Tuscan + Palestinian @ 0.487710
19 Druze + European_Utah + Maltese + Turk_Jew @ 0.491031
20 Bosnian + Italian_EastSicilian + Italian_South + Samaritian @ 0.493921

Angela
09-10-15, 20:00
I will say that at least it's better than the Eurogenes ones for me. I barely come in under 5 on those. Even Harappa does better, with 3.73.

This one gets closer, but still no cigar. :)
North Italian 1.94

@John Doe,
What are your first three or four populations on Dodecad K12b and V3? Are they better? I've seen Ashkenazi get much tighter fits on there. When you get to people like Brits, it's usually way under 1.0.

I wish he would update those things.

Regio X
09-10-15, 20:20
In the following thread, Vadim - the developer - suggests the calculator works relatively fine to Southern Europeans, and that Eurogenes, compared, tends to work better for Northern and Western Europeans: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5065-MDLP-K13-Ultimate-beta-calculator/page42 (see third post)

John Doe
09-10-15, 20:27
I will say that at least it's better than the Eurogenes ones for me. I barely come in under 5 on those. Even Harappa does better, with 3.73.

This one gets closer, but still no cigar. :)
North Italian 1.94

@John Doe,
What are your first three or four populations on Dodecad K12b and V3? Are they better? I've seen Ashkenazi get much tighter fits on there. When you get to people like Brits, it's usually way under 1.0.

I wish he would update those things.

Dodecad K12b:
23andme

Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
2.83


2
Sicilian (Dodecad)
2.99


3
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
4.86


4
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
5.08



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

62.2%
Greek (Dodecad)
+
37.8%
Morocco_Jews (Behar)
@
1.77


2

96.3%
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
+
3.7%
Russian_B (Behar)
@
1.87


3

96.3%
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
+
3.7%
Mordovians (Yunusbayev)
@
1.87


4

96%
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
+
4%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
@
1.9


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek +50% Sephardic_Jews @ 2.595415


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek +25% Morocco_Jews +25% S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.375685


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.237713
2 Ashkenazi + C_Italian + Druze + N_Italian @ 1.244316
3 Ashkenazy_Jews + C_Italian + Druze + N_Italian @ 1.358636
4 Cypriots + O_Italian + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.369294

FTDNA
Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Sicilian (Dodecad)
2.72


2
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
2.74


3
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
4.56


4
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
4.78


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek +50% Sephardic_Jews @ 2.296882


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek +25% Morocco_Jews +25% S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.112165


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.044383
2 Greek + Greek + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.112165
3 Ashkenazy_Jews + O_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews @ 1.246448
4 Greek + Greek + Morocco_Jews + Sicilian @ 1.309406

Dodecad V3

23andme

Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
2.1


2
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
2.22


3
Morocco_Jews (Behar)
8.55


4
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
10.34



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

93.3%
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
+
6.7%
Romanians_14 (Behar)
@
1.53


2

89.4%
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
+
10.6%
S_Italian (Dodecad)
@
1.56


3

86.7%
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
+
13.3%
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
@
1.57


4

94.8%
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
+
5.2%
Balkans (Dodecad)
@
1.57



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Ashkenazy_Jews @ 1.975791


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazy_Jews +25% Georgia_Jews +25% N_Italian @ 1.777297


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Druze + German + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian @ 1.698125
2 Ashkenazy_Jews + Ashkenazy_Jews + Georgia_Jews + N_Italian @ 1.777297
3 Cypriots + Dutch + Greek + Palestinian @ 1.898439
4 C_Italian + Cypriots + Lebanese + Argyll @ 1.904585

FTDNA

Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
1.9


2
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
2.09


3
Morocco_Jews (Behar)
8.54


4
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
10.46


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

87.8%
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
+
12.2%
C_Italian (Dodecad)
@
1.48


2

91.2%
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
+
8.8%
TSI (HapMap)
@
1.51


3

87.8%
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
+
12.2%
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
@
1.51


4

90.6%
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
+
9.4%
Tuscan (Xing)
@
1.51




Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Ashkenazy_Jews @ 1.817714


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazy_Jews +25% Georgia_Jews +25% N_Italian @ 1.692871


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 CEU + Druze + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian @ 1.498730
2 Druze + German + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian @ 1.615026
3 Druze + Morocco_Jews + S_Italian + N._European @ 1.680533
4 Ashkenazy_Jews + Ashkenazy_Jews + Georgia_Jews + N_Italian @ 1.692871

JS Bach
12-10-15, 05:14
Interesting that the Loschbour sample, a mesolithic European hunter gatherer, has an ENF score as high as the average modern English person.

Yeah, I don't know what to make of that. And Motala 12 and La Brana have 29.52% and 36.25%. Why would these Hunter-Gatherers have that much Early Neolithic Farmer in them? And that result's inconsistent with other calculators, although Genetiker's most recent calculator shows Loschbour with about 19% of what he calls Neolithic European.

Btw, here's the spreadsheet of this (MDLP 13) calculator's scores of modern populations: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-0H0X4DlMWvZDhfMk9wSVVMU2M/view?pli=1

Hauteville
01-01-16, 18:13
Anyone know where is from the sample called "Italian"?is it a mixed Italians of various regions?I haven't find nothing about it.

Angela
01-01-16, 21:05
Anyone know where is from the sample called "Italian"?is it a mixed Italians of various regions?I haven't find nothing about it.

I have no idea. It's neither the average nor the median of the Italian regions. It looks southern but I thought there were only three southern samples: West Sicily, East Sicily and Calabria.

Wait...was there one from Bari? Someone should ask him.

Btw, I ran my gedmatch for this again. When your results come up there's an icon for spreadsheet, and the numbers are a little different from the ones from the link above. Also, just for full comparison that one has results for Italy North, which is western Emilia, which the spreadsheet from the link above doesn't have.

I listed all the results from north to south, and if you go component by component it's actually quite good and confirms what we know. I was particularly pleased to see that my gut instinct about the similarity between Piemonte and western Emilia was borne out by the numbers.

It's quite good for me personally as well. All of my scores come out between Piemonte/Emilia on the one hand and Firenze on the other, leaning slightly to the northern two provinces, which is why my highest score is with Italy-North. That exactly matches my genealogy. It just goes to show that an admixture calculator can capture us pretty well if done correctly and if there are reference samples from different areas. It would be nice to have one from Campania, of course, and Apulia if the "Italian" sample doesn't cover it, and the central Veneto. Umbria too to see how much it might differ from Toscana. Lazio is hopeless. How many unmixed people are there?

One other thing...I've never paid too much attention to Greek genetics, but I happened to glance at them as I scrolled toward the Italian scores. I'm assuming "Greek" is the standard sample, which is from Thessaly, but what do the following mean: Coriell, WGA, Comas?

Hauteville
02-01-16, 12:44
I have no idea. It's neither the average nor the median of the Italian regions. It looks southern but I thought there were only three southern samples: West Sicily, East Sicily and Calabria.

Wait...was there one from Bari? Someone should ask him.
Yep, it looks like a southern samples but from?it's interesting to know where they are from.

Angela
02-01-16, 18:03
Yep, it looks like a southern samples but from?it's interesting to know where they are from.

I think I may have found the answer. Sometimes when I sleep things bubble to the surface. :)

Take a look at Nelis et al 2009:
Genetic Structure of Europeans: A View From the North East.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005472

The "North Italy" sample is from the Valle Borbera.
So, a region between Piacenza, Alessandria, the hinterlands of Genova, and bordering on far western Emilia. It's hard to put a name on it...very Ligurian but also some Piemonte and Lombardia and Emilia. No wonder it scores so close to the Piemonte samples. Maybe just call it the Quattro Province? :)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Borbera
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_Province

I think I've mentioned that we sing all those songs.

Anyway, the other Italian sample is Apulia.

Verenich often uses the Biocentre samples, so I think this is it.

It would be good to know if it's Salento/Bari or Foggia since there's different migration patterns.