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singingfalls
21-09-15, 05:10
So there has been discovered an ancient subclade match for me. It is down stream from I-4882 and associated with novel snp 19468160. It is named A7358 and can be tested at YSEQ.NET under that name. I have found a match at Poznan Poland. It is an old clade (2000 yrs) but exciting for me none the less. It is still not recognized at ISOGG or YFULL.

The_Lyonnist
14-01-16, 19:33
You are unique.

hrvat22
15-01-16, 16:24
You belong to White Croatian branch..

http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

Mutation of I-S17250 has a source in southern Poland, there are and his older mutations..

In 2010 has Ken Nordtvedt argued that I-L69.2 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion. According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE. In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I-L69.2 is not older than 2,800 years. In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I-L69.2 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula..

So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
extreme western Ukraine. That pattern may change with more sampling, of
course Date: 20 May 2014..

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2014-05/1400615460

..

https://web.archive.org/web/20110722041554/http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/Tree%20and%20Map%20for%20Hg%20I.pdf


Another haplotype among Croats R1a Z280 CTS3402 tipe also has a high frequency in southern Poland but for now I do not know source of the same .... probably is in southern Poland but it is yet to be determined.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zCFuZT9R8rxg.krb35UvaRd3c&hl=en


Russian geneticist I. Rozhansky says:
10/18/2013
The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian Mountains to the Adriatic are really allied nations. About Lužická Serbs and Danubian Serbs I can not say - they are too different lineage

http://pereformat.ru/2013/10/kolybel-evropejskoj-civilizacii/

singingfalls
09-02-16, 17:06
You belong to White Croatian branch..

http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

Mutation of I-S17250 has a source in southern Poland, there are and his older mutations..

In 2010 has Ken Nordtvedt argued that I-L69.2 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion. According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE. In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I-L69.2 is not older than 2,800 years. In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I-L69.2 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula..

So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
extreme western Ukraine. That pattern may change with more sampling, of
course Date: 20 May 2014..

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2014-05/1400615460


I am Dinaric North but tested S17250+ both at BigY and YSEQ.
..


https://web.archive.org/web/20110722041554/http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/Tree%20and%20Map%20for%20Hg%20I.pdf


Another haplotype among Croats R1a Z280 CTS3402 tipe also has a high frequency in southern Poland but for now I do not know source of the same .... probably is in southern Poland but it is yet to be determined.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zCFuZT9R8rxg.krb35UvaRd3c&hl=en


Russian geneticist I. Rozhansky says:
10/18/2013
The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian Mountains to the Adriatic are really allied nations. About Lužická Serbs and Danubian Serbs I can not say - they are too different lineage

http://pereformat.ru/2013/10/kolybel-evropejskoj-civilizacii/





They have discovered ancient I2a in Bichon Switzerland that dates back to Upper Paleolithic recently. There are several Mesolithic I2a1b Metola. Look at the bottom of this page for the list of hunter/gatherer I2a discoveries. http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html On the section related to ethnicity you can see where my ancestery as of the early 1800's is located.

hrvat22
10-02-16, 14:27
I am Dinaric North but tested S17250+ both at BigY and YSEQ.


So far, most or all of those who are negative for S17250 have patrilineage
originating near the Carpathians, particularly southeastern Poland and
extreme western Ukraine

Negative for mutation S17250 are older mutations that have source in southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine... Where are grandfathers and fathers must be and sons...therefore mutations S17250 has same source in this area and may be linked to White Croats who later became Poles, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, etc...

I mean people with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 and his later mutations..

http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tree%20and%20Map%20for%20Hg%20I.pdf


The same can be said about "Dinarides" subsidiary subclades I2a1b. Apparently the White Croats and Croats from the Carpathian

Here is not talk about ancient I2a1b haplotype becouse before 4 or 5 years this haplotype officially represents part of the Croatian population...

I2a1b L178/S328, M423



http://isogg.org/tree/2012/ISOGG_HapgrpI12.html



This I only specify if we misunderstood .. greetings

gyms
10-02-16, 17:53
Negative for mutation S17250 are older mutations that have source in southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine... Where are grandfathers and fathers must be and sons...therefore mutations S17250 has same source in this area and may be linked to White Croats who later became Poles, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, etc...

I mean people with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 and his later mutations..

http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tree%20and%20Map%20for%20Hg%20I.pdf



Here is not talk about ancient I2a1b haplotype becouse before 4 or 5 years this haplotype officially represents part of the Croatian population...

I2a1b L178/S328, M423



http://isogg.org/tree/2012/ISOGG_HapgrpI12.html



This I only specify if we misunderstood .. greetings

http://www.libraryofsocialscience.com/ideologies/docs/xenophobia-fantasy-and-the-nation/

The violent ethnic nationalisms which replaced Yugoslavia’s communalist ethos of bratstvo i jedinstvo (‘brotherhood and unity’) when, in 1991, the Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia fragmented into its constitutive republics took observers by surprise, and the bloody ethnic warfare that has continued to rage in the territories of Former Yugoslavia since that time has substituted trepidation for the enthusiasm with which most Europeans greeted the collapse of communist hegemony in Eastern Europe. The character of the nationalisms of Former Yugoslavia furthermore challenges the optimism with which theorists of nationalism such as Eric Hobsbawm heralded the demise of a phenomenon they believed—in the light of the developing global economy—could only be seen as atavistic.

hrvat22
10-02-16, 18:16
http://www.libraryofsocialscience.com/ideologies/docs/xenophobia-fantasy-and-the-nation/

The violent ethnic nationalisms which replaced Yugoslavia’s communalist ethos of bratstvo i jedinstvo (‘brotherhood and unity’) when, in 1991, the Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia fragmented into its constitutive republics took observers by surprise, and the bloody ethnic warfare that has continued to rage in the territories of Former Yugoslavia since that time has substituted trepidation for the enthusiasm with which most Europeans greeted the collapse of communist hegemony in Eastern Europe. The character of the nationalisms of Former Yugoslavia furthermore challenges the optimism with which theorists of nationalism such as Eric Hobsbawm heralded the demise of a phenomenon they believed—in the light of the developing global economy—could only be seen as atavistic.

Genetics is undeniable .. If I from Croatia with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 go to Germany and there have a family, my sons and grandchildren after 200 years will be Germans but they are not changed genes and Croatian genetic ancestry..

Today Croats have a minimum of 10% of the Wallachian gene and possibly up to 24% ... Whether I am a nationalist, chauvinist or xenophobe would not able change fact that today's Croats are part of Albanian Vlach origin..

With genes there is not kidding, they are telling truth 100% whether I like it or not..

singingfalls
10-02-16, 18:19
I2a1b L178/S328, M423
http://isogg.org/tree/2012/ISOGG_HapgrpI12.html

hrvat22, you might find these useful:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=pl&authuser=0&mid=zuIAt80Mz9gc.klyNZQnHIYT0

http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html

hrvat22
10-02-16, 18:24
hrvat22, you might find these useful:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=pl&authuser=0&mid=zuIAt80Mz9gc.klyNZQnHIYT0

http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html

I am familiar with it, thanks

gyms
10-02-16, 18:25
Genetics is undeniable .. If I from Croatia with haplotype I2a1b2a1a S17250 go to Germany and there have a family, my sons and grandchildren after 200 years will be Germans but they are not changed genes and Croatian genetic ancestry..

Today Croats have a minimum of 10% of the Wallachian gene and possibly up to 24% ... Whether I am a nationalist, chauvinist or xenophobe would not able change fact that today's Croats are part of Albanian Vlach origin..

With genes there is not kidding, they are telling truth 100% whether I like it or not..

Show me please some Croat,Vlach,Serb,Alban,Illir .....aDNA!

hrvat22
10-02-16, 18:37
Show me please some Croat,Vlach,Serb,Alban,Illir .....aDNA!

I can not prove it but I doubt for E1b V13, I am not familiar with specific types E1b V13 in Albanians therefore can not claim 100%..

I doubt and in R1b and J2 types because they are at epicenter in Albanians, and Croatia is not far away...This is logic, and there are records of arrival Vlachs in Croatia

gyms
10-02-16, 18:51
I can not prove it but I doubt for E1b V13, I am not familiar with specific types E1b V13 in Albanians therefore can not claim 100%..

I doubt and in R1b and J2 types because they are at epicenter in Albanians, and Croatia is not far away...This is logic, and there are records of arrival Vlachs in Croatia

We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.

singingfalls
10-02-16, 19:00
We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.


We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.
Agreed but these chaps were I2a1b:
Loschbour, Heffingen, Luxembourg I2a1b Mesolithic
Motala, Sweden 3 I2a1b Mesolithic
Motala, Sweden 12 I2a1b Mesolithic
Long before the founder effect in Southern Western Europe correct?

hrvat22
10-02-16, 19:01
We have no clue about the origin of I2a1b...
Modern distribution says nothing about that.

What I2a1b has to do with Croats.. Croats belong to branch I2a1b2a1a S17250...

I2a1b is old about 13,000 years when Croats do not exist..

singingfalls
10-02-16, 19:44
I am I2a1b2a1a2 (Y4882) just down stream fromS17250 but ftdna does not show any ethnic relationship to Croatia only Poland.

http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/ethnic_ftdna.jpg (http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/ethnic_ftdna.jpg) Here is what I put together regarding my work. It seemed to me that my ancestors and more related to the Vandals (Vistula region.)

http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html

gyms
10-02-16, 19:47
http://dienekes.blogspot.se/2014/04/more-ancient-scandinavians-skoglund.html

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-29799.html

http://www.arkeologiskasamfundet.se/csa/Dokument/Volumes/csa_vol_19_2011/csa_vol_19_2011_s244-246_hallgren.pdf

hrvat22
10-02-16, 20:24
http://dienekes.blogspot.se/2014/04/more-ancient-scandinavians-skoglund.html

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-29799.html

http://www.arkeologiskasamfundet.se/csa/Dokument/Volumes/csa_vol_19_2011/csa_vol_19_2011_s244-246_hallgren.pdf


Long time ago ancestor of today's Croats was in the Sweden, before that he was in Asia Minor and before that in Africa....what this have to do with 1,500 years ago when the Croats are first mentioned and with southern Poland..

hrvat22
10-02-16, 20:43
I am I2a1b2a1a2 (Y4882) just down stream fromS17250 but ftdna does not show any ethnic relationship to Croatia only Poland.

http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/ethnic_ftdna.jpg (http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/ethnic_ftdna.jpg) Here is what I put together regarding my work. It seemed to me that my ancestors and more related to the Vandals (Vistula region.)

http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html

Administrator of I2a haplogroup..

Even though there are not so many results for the new SNPs for people from Croatia and Serbia, many of these people belong to the "Dinaric-South" group as defined by STRs and I think most of "Dinaric-South" will belong to what our project calls the I-Z16983/A356 group



http://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

I2a1b2a1a S17250 is father of I-S17250 *, I-Y5596, I-Z16983, I-Y488 ..

I2a1b2a1a S17250 has a source in southeastern Poland and western Ukraine..


Byzantine Emperor Porfirogenetus 10th century (https://www.google.hr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj_8bK16-3KAhVGlSwKHeLfCVEQFggZMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F10th_c entury&usg=AFQjCNFns_FYKHDnTrDVlq8-Aq6mOYUNLQ&bvm=bv.113943665,d.bGs)


6th century
Croats, who now live in the region of Dalmatia are descended from the unbaptized Croats, also called White, who live behind the Turks (Hungarians), and in the neighborhood of the Frankish and Slavic neighbors have unbaptized Serbs. ,, Croats "in the Slavic language means:,, those who have a lot of land."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Croats

If I2a1b2a1a S17250 is father of Croatian branch I-Z16983 then S17250 is White Croatian origin and mutations I-S17250 *, I-Y5596, I-Z16983, I-Y488 in Europe are descendants of White Croatians ...


https://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ymap

It should be logic

braxinjo
10-02-16, 21:02
Hello, Ive done my 37 marker DNA test.
I am I2a1, predicted 17250+.
Now I am gong to do SNP Z16983 and A5913. Any other sugestion ?

My origin: Herzegovina, Croat.

hrvat22
10-02-16, 21:09
Hello, Ive done my 37 marker DNA test.
I am I2a1, predicted 17250+.
Now I am gong to do SNP Z16983 and A5913. Any other sugestion ?

My origin: Herzegovina, Croat.

You have here an experimental genetic tree so you can see where you belong when results begin to arrive..

http://yfull.com/tree/I2/

braxinjo
10-02-16, 21:18
what doese mean * , Z16983*

and sings >

hrvat22
10-02-16, 21:29
what doese mean * , Z16983*

and sings >


I do not know exactly but when there are two mutations with same name then comes the star...

Z16983 is main branch and Z16983 *, I-Y19359, I-Y6651 are mutations..

There is a map with I2a, so you look for mutations that exist in Herzegovina so you know on which mutation to test

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ymap

singingfalls
10-02-16, 22:36
what doese mean * , Z16983*

and sings >

It means there is a strong indication that your terminal SNP is not yet established. It means there is most likely another subclade you belong to that is not officially acknowledged as of yet.

singingfalls
02-03-16, 04:11
So the plot thickens. FTDNA has changed by Haplogroup/SNP page to reflect a downstream subclade that I share with one other person (Polish) whose data is not public. Here is a composite image of the tree. Select the image to see it at a higher resolution:

7636
The date of the MRCA is probably 1500 years ago.

YSEQ has a test if any of you folks downstream of I2a _ I-Y4882 are interested.

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php...c9c049f5ef2a46 (http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=24&products_id=18658&osCsid=63d4ca5eec2c2dbf0c9c049f5ef2a46)

singingfalls
12-03-16, 22:07
New YSEQ I2a M423 panel available. Info here: http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html#ydna Image if the tree available here: http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/YSEQ_M423_panel.jpg

Tomenable
12-03-16, 22:44
So there has been discovered an ancient subclade match for me. It is down stream from I-4882 and associated with novel snp 19468160. It is named A7358 and can be tested at YSEQ.NET under that name. I have found a match at Poznan Poland. It is an old clade (2000 yrs) but exciting for me none the less. It is still not recognized at ISOGG or YFULL.

Wow, great news! By the way, Early Medieval DNA from Poznan will be published this year:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32023-Early-Medieval-aDNA-from-Poland-coming-soon?p=475918&viewfull=1#post475918

Samples from the 10th-11th centuries from the Early Medieval cemetery at Poznan, Srodka:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śródka,_Poznań

"(...) Śródka [ˈɕrutka] is a historic neighbourhood of the city of Poznań in western Poland. It lies on the right bank of the Warta river, opposite the island of Ostrów Tumski where the city's cathedral is situated. It belonged to the former district of Nowe Miasto; in the current administrative division of Poznań, Ostrów Śródka is part of an osiedle which also includes Ostrów Tumski and the neighbourhoods of Zawady and Komandoria. Archaeologists have found evidence of settlement in Śródka which may date from the ninth century.[1] By 1231 Sródka was a ducal settlement, and in 1288 it was granted to the bishops of Poznań. It obtained town rights in the 15th century (Ostrówek, at its western end, was a separate town), and was incorporated into the city of Poznań in 1800. Its name is related to the Polish word środa ("Wednesday"), this being the day of the weekly market once held there. (...)"

singingfalls
13-03-16, 00:16
Wow, great news!
YSEQ has updated their I2a M423 panel to include many new SNPs including A7358. Info here: http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html#ydna Scroll down to updates.
Here is an image of the new panel tree: http://www.singingfalls.com/images/dna/YSEQ_M423_panel.jpg

hrvat22
13-03-16, 23:50
Krzysztof Narog map of I2a-L621 is not correct because it determines source of I-S17250 too east..I2a I-Y4882 has source in Southeast Poland and western Ukraine but to map source is further to central Ukraine, which is not true. I-Y4882 comes directly from southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine or White Croatia to Croatia and not from place specified in the map..


I-CTS5966

Subgroup: I2a2 'Dinaric' ..L621>CTS10228 and also S17250- ,Y4460- ,Z17855- (I-CTS10228*)
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: 56266
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Gmina Dębica, Poland


I-CTS10936

Subgroup: I-P37 : M423+ CTS10936+ CTS5966-
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: N113464
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Moskorzew, Poland

I-CTS5966

Subgroup: I-P37 : M423+ CTS10936+ CTS5966+ S17250- Y4460- Z17855-
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: 56266
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Gmina Dębica, Poland

CTS10228 is father, I-S17250 is White Croatian son, I-Y4882, I-Z16983, I-Y5596, I-S17250 * are grandchildren of CTS10228 and sons of White Croatian ​I-S17250 mutation...

singingfalls
14-03-16, 01:34
Krzysztof Narog map of I2a-L621 is not correct because it determines source of I-S17250 too east..I2a I-Y4882 has source in Southeast Poland and western Ukraine but to map source is further to central Ukraine, which is not true. I-Y4882 comes directly from southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine or White Croatia to Croatia and not from place specified in the map..CTS10228 is father, I-S17250 is White Croatian son, I-Y4882, I-16983, I-Y5596, I-S17250 * are grandchildren of CTS10228 and sons of White Croatian ​I-S17250 mutation...
I think you are misunderstanding this map. Krzysztof built this map based on the actual claimed locations of ancestors traced back according to known locations that were designated by the individuals tested. Are you saying that you know otherwise? With regard to "Cucuteni-Tripilian - migracja" it is my understanding that post glacial migrations emerged from the area indicated by Krzysztof. Please point me to a paper or abstract that says otherwise. I'm very interested to know. In some of the information I have seen Croatia as a "possible" source of these genetics for my clan. But keep in mind this is strictly Y Chromosome on the Narog map not autosomal.
Tell me hrvt22, have you yourself been tested for your Y DNA? It would be enlightening to know if you are I2a or R1a.

hrvat22
14-03-16, 08:38
I think you are misunderstanding this map. Krzysztof built this map based on the actual claimed locations of ancestors traced back according to known locations that were designated by the individuals tested. Are you saying that you know otherwise? With regard to "Cucuteni-Tripilian - migracja" it is my understanding that post glacial migrations emerged from the area indicated by Krzysztof. Please point me to a paper or abstract that says otherwise. I'm very interested to know. In some of the information I have seen Croatia as a "possible" source of these genetics for my clan. But keep in mind this is strictly Y Chromosome on the Narog map not autosomal.
Tell me hrvt22, have you yourself been tested for your Y DNA? It would be enlightening to know if you are I2a or R1a.

For now this is official http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tree%20and%20Map%20for%20Hg%20I.pdf

If something changes we will respect this. How do you think Croatia as a source?

Croatia can not be source because older mutations are in southern Poland, unless it was a return migration from Croatia to Poland but for now it is not so..


I did not do Y DNA tests, I follow Genetics of Croats and historical records of arrival to Balkan.
Normally that everything can change but this is what we know for now, Southern Poland - Balkan.


Cucuteni-Tripilian - migracja..?

The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture ca. 6000 to 3500 BC) in Eastern Europe.

I-S17250 (age: 1729 ybp)

What does Cucuteni-Trypillian culture has with Croats or White Croats when White Croatian mutations are 1700 years old, and has its source not in the area of Cucuteni-Trypillian culture ...

White Croats are not I2a types, they are a mixture of R1a and I2a types in southern Poland and western Ukraine in the period of first century AD, before that there are only assumption and is very difficult to prove existence of Croats or anyone else because there are mention entirely different tribes.

For the moment only mutation that can be considered of White Croatian origin is mutation I-S17250 (age: 1729 ybp), however, it occurs when White Croats are not mentioned, but considering that this is earlier mutation of all Croatian I2a types we can assume that I-S17250 is in relation with White Croats.
Do not forget mention of Croats at Azov in the 3rd century, it is possible that in the wider area from Azov up to southern Poland existed name Croat but at that time there was not recorded.

singingfalls
14-03-16, 18:29
[QUOTE=hrvat22;476824]For now this is official http://www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tree%20and%20Map%20for%20Hg%20I.pdf

I am not an authority on the subject but Ken's map was not to be considered the definitive authority on the subject according to his own words. Here's what Bernie Cullen of the I2a group has this to say about Ken's map. "On Ken's map that you link to, he cautions us not to over-interpret the migration tracks."

hrvat22
14-03-16, 21:08
I am not an authority on the subject but Ken's map was not to be considered the definitive authority on the subject according to his own words. Here's what Bernie Cullen of the I2a group has this to say about Ken's map. "On Ken's map that you link to, he cautions us not to over-interpret the migration tracks."


You have a public database for I2a and you draw a straight line movement, for now in southern Poland are two older mutations I-CTS10228 * and I-CTS4002...Nordtvedt compiled map in 2011 and to this day nothing is changed.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ymap

Gmina Dębica, Poland



I-CTS10228 (age: 2156 ybp)


Moskorzew, Poland



I-CTS4002 (age: 5602 ybp)



I-CTS10228

Subgroup: I-P37 : M423+ CTS10936+ CTS5966+ S17250+ (Y4882 or Z16971 or Z16983 Needed)
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: 245660
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Łężyny, Poland

I-P37 : M423+ CTS10936+ CTS5966+ S17250+ (Y4882 or Z16971 or Z16983 Needed)
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: 269795
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Warzyce, Polska



I-S17250 (age: 1729 ybp)



Three earlier mutations exist in southern Poland while in Croatia exists only branch I-S17250 or very few other types....

Let's say that mutation I-S17250 has origin in Croatia, then migration went from Croatia to Ukraine, Bulgaria, Belarus, Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Czech Republic....There are not any historical records that prove this, it would mean that mutation I-S17250 is Illyrian origin and this belongs to science fiction

singingfalls
15-03-16, 01:39
With all due respect I sent you exactly what Ken Nordtvedt himself said about his own map reinforced by the I2a group team. You can not base migration postulations on unfounded speculations which is what Ken himself says of his map. It is a guess. I am not saying that you are necessarily wrong, only that you have no proof that you are correct. I am not persuaded that I-S17250 is Illyrian but I must say that the highest concentration of I-S17250+ is in Dinaric South group. I am I-S17250+ but my STRs clearly place me in a Dinaric North subset of I-CTS10228.

hrvat22
15-03-16, 10:40
With all due respect I sent you exactly what Ken Nordtvedt himself said about his own map reinforced by the I2a group team. You can not base migration postulations on unfounded speculations which is what Ken himself says of his map. It is a guess. I am not saying that you are necessarily wrong, only that you have no proof that you are correct. I am not persuaded that I-S17250 is Illyrian but I must say that the highest concentration of I-S17250+ is in Dinaric South group. I am I-S17250+ but my STRs clearly place me in a Dinaric North subset of I-CTS10228.

You have south Polish mutation I-CTS10228 age: 2156 ybp and you have mutation I-S17250+ old 1729 ybp which means that if you're right these people arrived in Croatia or Dalmatia in the first century, to Roman Empire ?..there is no record that anyone before fall of the Roman Empire came to Dalmatia.

Italians do not have this mutation significantly, which means that after arrival of Slavs in sixth century, no one withdrew with mutation S17250 + to Italy and should have if there was this mutation..Albanians have 12% I2a but records mentioned Red Croatia up to Durrës in Albania. There are records of Slavs, place names in Albania and there is Montenegro at the border so mixing was after arrival of Slavs which is quite logical and visible in genetics, just as Croats have part of the Albanian genes.

You do not need Ken Nordtvedt, you draw map acording to data from public databases, direction is southern Poland - Croatia, Dalmatia.
It is for now as well in the year 2011, how will be in year 2020 I do not know..

singingfalls
11-05-16, 00:17
I am pleased to say that a third individual has been recognized with subclade I-A7358. That make two individuals of Polish decent and one from Slovakia. I am searching out his ethnic origins now. Hopefully soon ISOGG will acknowledge this clade and it will grow. I have documented the ISOGG analysis here:
http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html#ydna_updates
Scroll down to the May 10 update.

balkanbro
10-07-17, 08:36
those are my suggested SNP.... did you test those.. if so would you share your results with us!

From Greece peloponnese

balkanbro
10-07-17, 08:37
Hello, Ive done my 37 marker DNA test.
I am I2a1, predicted 17250+.
Now I am gong to do SNP Z16983 and A5913. Any other sugestion ?

My origin: Herzegovina, Croat.

those are my suggested SNP.... did you test those.. if so would you share your results with us!

From Greece peloponnese

soki78
11-12-17, 12:17
Anything new about I A5913?