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View Full Version : share your puntDNAL K11 results.



Alan
05-11-15, 11:23
A New Calculator is around based on Lazaridis 2014. Share your results

Here the description from Gedmatch




This calculator utilizes public data from the Harvard study done by Lazaridis in 2014 as well as other publicly available data in order to create a calculator that has ancient components. These ancient components include: Ancestral North Eurasian (ANE), Early European Farmers (EEF), and West European Hunter-Gatherers (WHG_UHG). For more information about these components and the study click HERE (http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Datasets_files/2014_Nature_Lazaridis_EuropeThreeAncestries.pdf). Questions and comments about this calculator should be directed to Abdullahi Warsame at [email protected]




Population



Oceanian
-


Near_East
19.71%


Eastern Farmer

36.66%


E_Asian
-


Beringian
0.39%


Sub-Saharan
0.75%


Amerindian
1.36%


Siberian
-


ASI
5.45%


EEF
29.64%


WHG-UHG
6.03%

Maciamo
05-11-15, 12:16
Where can the calculator be downloaded ?

Alan
05-11-15, 12:37
Where can the calculator be downloaded ?

It's on Gedmatch. If you have an account you can use the calculator. Unfortunately I don't know where it can be downloaded.

However you could mail them for further information.

Alan
05-11-15, 12:50
the "Near Eastern" component must be DNA which does not fit quite well into the EEF cluster, most likely includes genes from Eastern/Teal farmers(without the ANE portion) from the Iranian plateau and/or Southern farmer DNA from Northwest Saudi Arabia.

Goga
05-11-15, 13:47
Near_East seems to be at least partly Semitic.

My gedmatch is showing Caucas-Gedrosia instead of ANE. But I guess it's the same as ANE right?

Here are my results:

ANE : 38.09 %
EEF : 28.62 %
Near_East : 17.73 %
ASI : 7.64 %
WHG-UHG : 4,68 %

http://s8.postimg.org/9cx9jm99x/Ezdi_Kurd.jpg

RobertColumbia
05-11-15, 13:47
Population



Oceanian
-


Near_East
1.63%


Caucas-Gedrosia
19.04%


E_Asian
-


Beringian
0.26%


Sub-Saharan
-


Amerindian
1.15%


Siberian
0.42%


ASI
0.30%


EEF
39.41%


WHG-UHG
37.79%



I suppose these results make sense. I have a lot more WHG-UHG and a lot less Near_East than both of you.

John Doe
05-11-15, 13:47
23andme


Population
Oceanian -
Near_East 15.20%
Caucas-Gedrosia 22.45%
E_Asian 0.60%
Beringian -
Sub-Saharan 1.37%
Amerindian -
Siberian 0.64%
ASI 0.23%
EEF 44.81%
WHG-UHG 14.70%




FTDNA


Population
Oceanian -
Near_East 14.62%
Caucas-Gedrosia 22.96%
E_Asian -
Beringian -
Sub-Saharan 1.83%
Amerindian -
Siberian 1.07%
ASI 0.20%
EEF 44.58%
WHG-UHG 14.72%

Goga
05-11-15, 14:07
I suppose these results make sense. I have a lot more WHG-UHG and a lot less Near_East than both of you.
Yeah, I don't think that Europeans have a lot Semtic DNA in them. I guess that Kurds have between 5 - 10 Semitic DNA in them. What is more interesting is that our Ashkenazi Jewish friend above has less Near_East component than me. I understand that Ashkenazi Jewish people are mixed with native Europeans, but as of the ancient Semitic origin they should also much of Semitic DNA in them.

While I, as a Kurds, have ancient Iranic (Iranid) origin and maybe even some Eastern Iranic (Parthian) influences, that's why high ANE and somehow high ASI from BMAC? But later a little bit mixed with Hurrians (full of ANE & WHG-UHG) from the Caucasus and Semitic folks, like Assyrians and Babylonians.


I don't think that Near_East component is from the Hurrians, because I guess that folks in the Caucasus have much less of Near_East component, but I can be wrong.

Goga
05-11-15, 14:23
Basically, Kurds, Persians, Gilaki, Talysh, Mazanderani, Lur, Ossetians & Georgians do belong to the same race. I guess that Georgians, Ossetians (Alanians/Sarmatians), Persians and Kurds (Medes) are basically the same people, although Kurds & Persians have slightly more Semitic DNA in them (from Babylonians & Assyrians). Georgians have a lot of Iranic DNA in them, but somehow they don't speak Iranic but Kartvelian language instead.

But it has been said that that Proto-Kartvelian and Iranic/Indo-European languages are very similar and closely related to each other. And like ancient Iranic languages, Kurdish and Katvelian do have ergativity construction.

" The ablaut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablaut) patterns of Proto-Kartvelian are highly similar to those of the Indo-European languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages), and so it is widely thought that Proto-Kartvelian interacted with Indo-European at a relatively early date. This is reinforced by a fairly large number of words borrowed from Indo-European, such as the Proto-Kartvelian *mḳerd- (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Kartvelian/m%E1%B8%B3erd-) (breast), and its possible relation to the Proto-Indo-European *ḱerd- (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/%E1%B8%B1erd-) (heart). Proto-Kartvelian *ṭep- (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Kartvelian/%E1%B9%ADep-) (warm) may also be directly derived from Proto-Indo-European *tep- “warm”.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Kartvelian_language#cite_note-Britannica-1) It is also asserted that the name of wine in Indo-European languages is borrowed from Proto-Kartvelian *ɣwino, implicating quite close relations between these languages. "

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Kartvelian_language

Alan
05-11-15, 14:30
There isn't any Caucaso_Gedrosia component there have you guys confused the calculator or did you confuse it with ANE? It can't be Caucaso_Gedrosia because usually I score 66% Caucaso_Gedrosia.

We shouldn't mix up ancient components with modern once that won't work because modern components are composed of 2 or 3 ancient once. That means you can't speak of Caucaso_Gedrosia, EEF and ANE in one calculator. This is why this calculator does not include Caucaso_Gedrosia, Mediterranean or North Europan.

"Near East" component is not Semitic. It is the farmer DNA that does not fit well into EEF cluster. Part of it came via Semites another part is basically Iranian Plateau/North Caucasus (Gedrosia) type farmer DNA.

For the last time Parthians are not an East Iranic people. They are Northwest Iranic people descend from Medes with a Scythian admixture.


Edit: I see the label has been changed to Caucaso_Gedrosia. Must have been a typo from the beginning. Eastern Farmer aka teal would have been a better fit as a name.

Regio X
05-11-15, 14:47
7485

Just 51432 SNPs used.

Goga
05-11-15, 14:48
Look at the picture. Gedmatch is saying here Caucas-Gedrosia instead of ANE. First it was called ANE, but somebody changed the name.

That's why I was telling that Near_East is partly Semitic. Or BETTER, Semitic is partly Near_East...


Proto-Semitic = Near_East + some EEF + some East African?

Angela
05-11-15, 15:24
It's definitely labeled Caucasus/Gedrosia, which is a modern component and contains more than ANE.

The Lazaridis analysis is based on a Stuttgart sample, Malta, and Loschbour. If the ancient genomes are available, and they go through the methodology as explained in the paper, it should be possible to create an accurate calculator for personal use.

The same goes for the Haak et al analysis. Just use the same ancient samples, if you can get access to them.

The problems start when the bloggers try to extrapolate "other" clusters, like ENF, when they don't have a sample, or WHG/UHG, or Basal Eurasian for that matter. All attempts to do this sort of thing have been proven wrong.

We now have an ENF from Anatolia, we also have an EHG genome. Once we get a "teal" genome, I'm sure the academics will provide national averages for that combination. The bloggers could then create a calculator for it. I'm particularly interested to see this because I think the "Yamnaya" percentages for certain areas may be inflated because of excess EHG.

Maybe if we get an early farmer from far eastern Anatolia, or Central Asia, and an ANE sample closer in time and from Central Asia, those could be used for more detailed clusters.

For really accurate calculators we're going to need to wait for those ancient samples, in my opinion.

That said, and reading the tea leaves here, I would guess that the Caucasus/Gedrosia cluster is similar to the one in the Genographic analysis, and probably most Europeans would get a similar number for that, or at least the variation would be very limited. I don't know, might it be an approximation of "teal", and the WHG/UHG number is the additional WHG/UHG (over and above what is in EEF and Caucasus/Gedrosia) and so would include the "WHG and EHG from Europe?

The major differences for Europeans will be the proportion of EEF versus WHG/UHG, and the amount of "Near East" in northern versus southern Europe. Any talk of "Near Eastern" meaning "Semitic" is anachronistic. Semitic is first of all a language designation, and even if stretched to mean an "ethnic" designation, is too modern. In terms of this analysis it may mean additional eastern farmer genes (not accounted for by Caucasus/Gedrosia) that entered Europe some time after the early Neolithic. Whether that means mid-to-late Neolithic transition/Bronze Age/ Iron Age, or Empire/early Medieval period is anyone's guess at this point. Without some "ancient" samples it's just speculation.

Goga
05-11-15, 15:48
On MDLP 13 Ultimate, they make a differentiation between ANE and Caucas-Gedrosia.

There I do score slightly less ANE with 33.37 % . While on puntDNAL I do score 38.09 %. It's still the most frequent auDNA component, though. Caucas-Gedrosia is very closely second with almost the same amount, 33.26 % .

Most of Caucas-Gedrosia here became EEF on puntDNAL.

ANE : 33.37 %
Caucas-Gedrosia : 33.26
ENF : 13.61 %
Near East : 12.62 %


http://s15.postimg.org/3lp9bt6xn/Ezdi_Kurd.jpg

Angela
05-11-15, 20:00
It's definitely labeled Caucasus/Gedrosia, which is a modern component and contains more than ANE.

The Lazaridis analysis is based on a Stuttgart sample, Malta, and Loschbour. If the ancient genomes are available, and they go through the methodology as explained in the paper, it should be possible to create an accurate calculator for personal use.

The same goes for the Haak et al analysis. Just use the same ancient samples, if you can get access to them.

The problems start when the bloggers try to extrapolate "other" clusters, like ENF, when they don't have a sample, or WHG/UHG, or Basal Eurasian for that matter. All attempts to do this sort of thing have been proven wrong.

We now have an ENF from Anatolia, we also have an EHG genome. Once we get a "teal" genome, I'm sure the academics will provide national averages for that combination. The bloggers could then create a calculator for it. I'm particularly interested to see this because I think the "Yamnaya" percentages for certain areas may be inflated because of excess EHG.

Maybe if we get an early farmer from far eastern Anatolia, or Central Asia, and an ANE sample closer in time and from Central Asia, those could be used for more detailed clusters.

For really accurate calculators we're going to need to wait for those ancient samples, in my opinion.

That said, and reading the tea leaves here, I would guess that the Caucasus/Gedrosia cluster is similar to the one in the Genographic analysis, and probably most Europeans would get a similar number for that, or at least the variation would be very limited. I don't know, might it be an approximation of "teal", and the WHG/UHG number is the additional WHG/UHG (over and above what is in EEF and Caucasus/Gedrosia) and so would include the "WHG and EHG from Europe?

The major differences for Europeans will be the proportion of EEF versus WHG/UHG, and the amount of "Near East" in northern versus southern Europe. Any talk of "Near Eastern" meaning "Semitic" is anachronistic. Semitic is first of all a language designation, and even if stretched to mean an "ethnic" designation, is too modern. In terms of this analysis it may mean additional eastern farmer genes (not accounted for by Caucasus/Gedrosia) that entered Europe some time after the early Neolithic. Whether that means mid-to-late Neolithic transition/Bronze Age/ Iron Age, or Empire/early Medieval period is anyone's guess at this point. Without some "ancient" samples it's just speculation.

I've just seen some more results. All the Europeans-Irish, English, French, Southeast French, German, Italian, have from 17-22 for the "Caucasus-Gedrosia" labeled element. I think the eastern Europeans would be similar. The only ones with much lover levels (10%) are Iberians from what I can see, who have levels closer to those of some North Africans. This is the same pattern that can be seen via the Genographic test.

If that cluster does correlate with "teal", and the Yamnaya were half "teal", either the actual number of "Celts" who reached Iberia were lower than we might think going solely by y Dna, or, by the time the "Celts" reached Iberia they were no longer as Yamnaya like or "teal" like as when they entered the rest of Europe, yes?

Oh, the southeast French and northern Italians seem to be very similar, which doesn't at all surprise me.

Alan
05-11-15, 20:01
@Angela

Interesting, the name of the component has been changed. Must have been a typo before.


I find the name slightly unfitting, I wouldn't call it exactly Caucaso_Gedrosia but rather "Teal llike" here because includes some ANE derived North European ancestry and a good chunk of the Caucasus gets eaten up by "Near East" and EEF and some of Gedrosia gets eaten up by ASI.

But I have to say it fits with the Lazaridis paper and components. Just that I would call it Teal.

And it also makes more sense in that regard to use Teal (here labeled Caucaso_Gedrosian) EEF and WHG/UHG as components. Since ANE seems to be slightly too ancient to have played a role in any ethnicity in it's pure form. ANE rather mixed into various regions in connection with other components. In Western Asia in connection with farmer DNA (Teal). In Russia in combination with WHG (EHG) and in native Americans in combination with Siberian (Amerindian).

Alan
05-11-15, 20:15
Proto-Semitic = Near_East + some EEF + some East African?

roughly and simply explained, yes. Thats close enough. But as I said "Near East" includes halfway Caucasus like ancestry, and the other half is rather "South Farmer" type ancestry and predates Semites. Yet large majority of it was probably distributed by Semites in the Near East. But as you pointed out Semites were not all "Near East" maybe majority but they also had probably a good amoung of EEF.

Fire Haired14
05-11-15, 20:16
I'm confused how this guy made the calculator. It looks loosely based on ancient genomes.

My results.

Oceanian: 0.46%
Near East: 4.67%
Caucas-Gedorsia: 15.71%
East Asian 0%
Beringian: 0%
Sub Saharan: 1.35%
Amerindian: 3.75%
Siberian: 0.1%
ASI: 1.67%
EEF: 41.88%
WHG-UHG: 30.41%

Fire Haired14
05-11-15, 20:21
It confirms what we already know. In "Steppe" has ancestry related to Northern West Asians and European hunter gatherers. If we didn't have EHG and MA1 we'd still be able to detect WHG and Amerindian-like stuff in Yamnaya.

WHG-UHG looks like it has EHG in it. Because Afanasievo is two-way mix of it and Caucasus-Gedorisa.

Stuttgart.

Near East: 13.87%
Caucas: 2.76%
EEF: 71.81%.
WHG-UHG: 11.04%

Afanasievo.
Caucas: 39.42%
Amerindian: 2.11%
EEF: 13.22%
WHG-UHG: 43.3%

Edit...

Copper age Hungary.
EEF: 69.32%.
WHG: 20.91%
Near East: 9.24%.
Caucas: 0.52%.

Funnel Beaker Sweden.
EEF: 59.24%.
WHG: 30.48%.
Near East: 6.25%
Caucas: 1.44%
Sub Saharan: 1.07%.

Angela
05-11-15, 20:21
@Angela

Interesting, the name of the component has been changed. Must have been a typo before.


I find the name slightly unfitting, I wouldn't call it exactly Caucaso_Gedrosia but rather "Teal llike" here. But have to say it fits with the Lazaridis paper and components.

And it also makes more sense in that regard to use Teal (here labeled Caucaso_Gedrosian) EEF and WHG/UHG as components. Since ANE seems to be slightly too ancient to have played a role in any ethnicity in it's pure form. ANE rather mixed into various regions in connection with other components. In Western Asia in connection with farmer DNA (Teal). In Russia in combination with WHG (EHG) and in native Americans in combination with Siberian (Amerindian).

I think that may be right. (See post #15 above and the preceding post) I doubt the researchers are going to be using ANE based on Mal'ta from now on. It's too old. An EEF, (or West Anatolian farmer if they update it), Teal, Additional WHG/UHG, set of clusters is an interesting way of looking at the data. It would let us track how much inflow came into Europe with the Neolithic, how much ancestry went north onto the steppe by way of the Caucasus or East of the Caspian, and how much is, what, Gravettian in Europe? Of course, it would be nice to have the full set as well, West Anatolian farmer, Western European Mesolithic hunter-gatherer, EHG, eastern Anatolian farmer, Central Asian or at least more recent ANE. Who knows if we find the ANE in an unmixed state from a date closer to the admixture time, however, so "Teal" may be the best we can do. If we do get an eastern farmer, however, and someone who is "teal", it shouldn't be too speculative to just subtract it out.

Alan
05-11-15, 20:24
If that cluster does correlate with "teal", and the Yamnaya were half "teal", either the actual number of "Celts" who reached Iberia were lower than we might think going solely by y Dna, or, by the time the "Celts" reached Iberia they were no longer as Yamnaya like or "teal" like as when they entered the rest of Europe, yes?




That is definitely Eastern Farmer/Teal this is why I think the "Caucaso_Gedrosia" name is slightly unfitting, because it is slightly different in that it has no ANE derived "North Euro" ancestry and includes some EEF genes.

This is probably this "Armenian like" component.

Angela
05-11-15, 20:32
Stuttgart.

Near East: 13.87%
Caucas: 2.76%
EEF: 71.81%.
WHG-UHG: 11.04%

Afanasievo.
Caucas: 39.42%
Amerindian: 2.11%
EEF: 13.22%
WHG-UHG: 43.3%

I think that looks very good, don't you? Better than any of the other blogger calculators I've seen. Stuttgart is indeed supposed to have 10% or less additional WHG, yes? So maybe in this particular calculator EEF really is the West Anatolian farmer. I think the same thing would show up in Oetzi, along with the beginnings of a different kind of Near Eastern farmer: 13.87. Interestingly that Near Eastern percentage is more than what northern Italians get, and only 2% less than what Ashkenazim get. So, did it get diluted by a little additional WHG over the next couple of thousand years, and then some EHG?

I think the percentages for Afanasievo look good too.

Has anyone run Sardinians?

Alan
05-11-15, 20:36
It confirms what we already know. In "Steppe" has ancestry related to Northern West Asians and European hunter gatherers. If we didn't have EHG and MA1 we'd still be able to detect WHG and Amerindian-like stuff in Yamnaya.

WHG-UHG looks like it has EHG in it. Because Afanasievo is two-way mix of it and Caucasus-Gedorisa.

Stuttgart.

Near East: 13.87%
Caucas: 2.76%
EEF: 71.81%.
WHG-UHG: 11.04%

Afanasievo.
Caucas: 39.42%
Amerindian: 2.11%
EEF: 13.22%
WHG-UHG: 43.3%

Edit...

Copper age Hungary.
EEF: 69.32%.
WHG: 20.91%
Near East: 9.24%.
Caucas: 0.52%.

Funnel Beaker Sweden.
EEF: 59.24%.
WHG: 30.48%.
Near East: 6.25%
Caucas: 1.44%
Sub Saharan: 1.07%.
Those results fit well with the Lazaridis, Yamna and Haak paper. Seem indeed like professional work there.

Angela
05-11-15, 20:37
That is definitely Eastern Farmer/Teal this is why I think the "Caucaso_Gedrosia" name is slightly unfitting, because it is slightly different in that it has no ANE derived "North Euro" ancestry and includes some EEF genes.

This is probably this "Armenian like" component.

Which would also contain "ANE".

Alan
05-11-15, 20:38
I think that looks very good, don't you? Better than any of the other blogger calculators I've seen. Stuttgart is indeed supposed to have 10% or less additional WHG, yes? So maybe in this particular calculator EEF really is the West Anatolian farmer. I think the same thing would show up in Oetzi, along with the beginnings of a different kind of Near Eastern farmer: 13.87. Interestingly that Near Eastern percentage is more than what northern Italians get, and only 2% less than what Ashkenazim get. So, did it get diluted by a little additional WHG over the next couple of thousand years, and then some EHG?

I think the percentages for Afanasievo look good too.

Has anyone run Sardinians?

It might have a few small noisy percentage of "issues" here and there but it is definitely the most professional and accurate calculator so far and indeed looks like it is based on the studies.

One thing however. WHG-UHG(Unknown Hunter and Gatherer) here seems to include EHG. it is basically WHG-EHG.

Fire Haired14
05-11-15, 21:04
@Alan, Angela,

I agree the calculator looks good. It's consistent with most other tests. WHG-UHG for the most part represents Hunter gatherer blood. So, if you think about it Middle Neolithic Europeans were 70-75% Anatolian and Yamnaya was 50% Teal, most Europeans should be at least 60% Near Eastern. ANE from teal and WHG from EEF was earlier added on to hunter gatherer ancestry. Anatolian_Neolithic will probably score almost 100% EEF+Near Eastern.

Angela
05-11-15, 21:24
It confirms what we already know. In "Steppe" has ancestry related to Northern West Asians and European hunter gatherers. If we didn't have EHG and MA1 we'd still be able to detect WHG and Amerindian-like stuff in Yamnaya.

WHG-UHG looks like it has EHG in it. Because Afanasievo is two-way mix of it and Caucasus-Gedorisa.

Stuttgart.

Near East: 13.87%
Caucas: 2.76%
EEF: 71.81%.
WHG-UHG: 11.04%

Afanasievo.
Caucas: 39.42%
Amerindian: 2.11%
EEF: 13.22%
WHG-UHG: 43.3%

Edit...

Copper age Hungary.
EEF: 69.32%.
WHG: 20.91%
Near East: 9.24%.
Caucas: 0.52%.

Funnel Beaker Sweden.
EEF: 59.24%.
WHG: 30.48%.
Near East: 6.25%
Caucas: 1.44%
Sub Saharan: 1.07%.

Thanks a lot, Fire Haired.

Yes, Copper Age and Funnel Beaker results generally fit with what we know as well. After a couple of thousand years the WHG component went from the initial 10% to 20% in some areas to 30% on the periphery. I would expect Remedello and Oetzi to be similar to Copper Age Hungary.

@John Doe,
I have a few Ashkenazi friends who have tested. They seem to have an additional 2% on Near Eastern and EEF, and about a couple of percent less on WHG/UHG.

Do you have any inter-marriage with non-Jews in your line showing up at 23andme?

Ooops! Only if you don't mind sharing that information, of course. Everybody's sense of privacy about these things is different. :)


The amount of SSA is about the same. I've always wondered when that entered the gene pool. Bronze Age/Iron Age by way of Egypt, Alexandrian Jews (so Egypt again) that became part of the diaspora, or from minor Separdic/North African Jewish admixture and the Berber component they carried?

Fire Haired14
05-11-15, 21:34
I would expect Remedello and Oetzi to be similar to Copper Age Hungary.


They have less WHG than Copper age Hungary.

Angela
05-11-15, 21:41
@Alan, Angela,

I agree the calculator looks good. It's consistent with most other tests. WHG-UHG for the most part represents Hunter gatherer blood. So, if you think about it Middle Neolithic Europeans were 70-75% Anatolian and Yamnaya was 50% Teal, most Europeans should be at least 60% Near Eastern. ANE from teal and WHG from EEF was earlier added on to hunter gatherer ancestry. Anatolian_Neolithic will probably score almost 100% EEF+Near Eastern.

From the results I saw this morning the British definitely seem to get about 60% if you add up the EEF/NearEast/Teal. I would think the German results would be similar, and other central Europeans. The southern Europeans would have more, and the Northeast Europeans less.

Well, the Caucasus specifically may not be the "Womb of Nations", but the northern Near East certainly seems to be.

Angela
05-11-15, 22:13
They have less WHG than Copper age Hungary.

Makes sense if we consider that Hungary would have been closer to the far northern refugia from which some WHG might have been trickling in...the next question for me is, was the Mid/Neolithic in areas further south in Italy even more Stuttgart like or was it Remedello like, and how much change did the "Indo-Europeans" make depending on the area and the migration path. .

Goga
05-11-15, 22:18
The amount of SSA is about the same. I've always wondered when that entered the gene pool. Bronze Age/Iron Age by way of Egypt, Alexandrian Jews (so Egypt again) that became part of the diaspora, or from minor Separdic/North African Jewish admixture and the Berber component they carried?Remember that the Semites are part of greater Afro-Asiatic family. I guess it's from the proto-Jews who lived around Israel/Levant. At the time of Jesus, Jewish folks would have even much more SSA component. But due to mixing with others their SSA diluted over time.

Same can be also said about other speakers of Semitic languages in the Mid. East...

Angela
05-11-15, 22:46
Remember that the Semites are part of greater Afro-Asiatic family. I guess it's from the proto-Jews who lived around Israel/Levant. At the time of Jesus, Jewish folks would have even much more SSA component. But due to mixing with others their SSA diluted over time.

Same can be also said about other speakers of Semitic languages in the Mid. East...

Well, if we look at the Druse on Globe 13 they have .5 West African and 1.2 East African, and the Samaritans only have 1.4% East African, so I'm not sure that some wasn't added later. Not much, though, I don't think. Sephardim, some of whom mixed with North African Jews, who in their turn have some Berber ancestry, are at 2.2%.

Goga
05-11-15, 23:03
Well, if we look at the Druse on Globe 13 they have .5 West African and 1.2 East African, and the Samaritans only have 1.4% East African, so I'm not sure that some wasn't added later. Not much, though, I don't think. Sephardim, some of whom mixed with North African Jews, who in their turn have some Berber ancestry, are at 2.2%.

Druze are not really a folk that you can consider as your typical Semites. They are interracial and mixed between different races. Levant people, but additional dominant ancestries from Persian (Iranid) to Northern African, from Southern European to Arabian folks.

Native Northern Africans (Berbers) are very high of SSA. Even Arabized Northern Africans (Moroccans, Algerians, Tunisians etc.) are very high of SSA. Native Northern Africans are also speakers of Afro-Asiatic languages...

Fire Haired14
05-11-15, 23:05
Makes sense if we consider that Hungary would have been closer to the far northern refugia from which some WHG might have been trickling in...the next question for me is, was the Mid/Neolithic in areas further south in Italy even more Stuttgart like or was it Remedello like, and how much change did the "Indo-Europeans" make depending on the area and the migration path. .

My guess is all of Italy was colonized by Cardiel and so like Remedello except maybe less WHG. Ancient DNA is needed because there could have been non-EEF people before 3000 BC and we don't know exactly what type of people came in after 3000 BC. If anything North Italians have more Steppe-blood, but recent events could account for that.

There's also recent events that make an affect. North Italians IMO clearly have recent Central European ancestry(Gaul, German). Some Swiss and French cluster with North Italians, which could be really recent admixture. IMO, there's Roman ancestry in France, Iberia, and Switzerland that's pretty important to their makeup. That'll have to be investigated with ancient DNA later.

New people could have moved in though before 3000 BC. I just started taking notes in ADMIXTURE, formal stats, PCAs, etc. I don't know that much yet. But it's pretty easy to get good information.

Alan
06-11-15, 00:07
I think, I need to clarify my stance regarding "Eastern Farmers". I don't think they represent "East Anatolian" (what is actually not Anatolia) farmers. By mid-late Neolithic, "East Anatolia" for me would have been intermediated between West and East Farmers. Where I think the Eastern Farmers where much more likely to have existed in their pure form is slightly further East. I would call them Iranian Plateau farmers in contrast to the Anatolian farmers.

I think Eastern farmers existed all the way from Southeast Caucasus into South_Central Asia by Late Neolithic.

Sile
06-11-15, 06:13
below are my fathers numbers



opulation



Oceanian
0.23%


Near_East
7.59%


Caucas-Gedrosia
17.83%


E_Asian
-


Beringian
-


Sub-Saharan
0.50%


Amerindian
0.67%


Siberian
-


ASI
0.96%


EEF
44.90%


WHG-UHG
27.32%





44.90% EEF Orange , the teal is 17% back


He has mtdna of T2B26

his eyes are below as its a 100% exact match via gedmatch ............first time for everthing

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/dad%20eyes_zpso5btsgzf.jpg


My numbers below

(http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/dad%20eyes_zpso5btsgzf.jpg.html)

Population



Oceanian
0.42%


Near_East
6.32%


Caucas-Gedrosia
20.29%


E_Asian
-


Beringian
-


Sub-Saharan
0.06%


Amerindian
-


Siberian
-


ASI
0.84%


EEF
44.39%


WHG-UHG
27.69%



(http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/dad%20eyes_zpso5btsgzf.jpg.html)

brianco
06-11-15, 08:40
Here is mine (British mutt). I can only use my tablet as sitting at my PC is uncomfortable. I had my prostate removed last week (cancer). Recovering now :)




Oceanian
0.61%


Near_East
1.19%


Caucas-Gedrosia
18.65%


E_Asian
-


Beringian
-


Sub-Saharan
0.27%


Amerindian
0.38%


Siberian
0.20%


ASI
1.07%


EEF
39.70%


WHG-UHG
37.93%

Alan
06-11-15, 15:49
@Brianco

Hope everything went well. Get well soon.

Alan
06-11-15, 15:52
Maybe Arame would share his results. Would love to see Armenian results. Should be very Kurdish like with little less Teal (33%) and more EEF (35%).

Regio X
06-11-15, 17:30
his eyes are below as its a 100% exact match via gedmatch ............first time for everthingThis tool doesn't work for me. Which data did you use? FTDNA's or 23andMe's?

Sile
06-11-15, 18:23
This tool doesn't work for me. Which data did you use? FTDNA's or 23andMe's?

it says to use 23andme for best results, so that's what I used..............but I also said its the only one they got 100% correct

John Doe
06-11-15, 18:36
I have a few Ashkenazi friends who have tested. They seem to have an additional 2% on Near Eastern and EEF, and about a couple of percent less on WHG/UHG.

Do you have any inter-marriage with non-Jews in your line showing up at 23andme?

Ooops! Only if you don't mind sharing that information, of course. Everybody's sense of privacy about these things is different. :)

I don't mind Angela. Yeah I have one Danish person with only one Jewish parent on COA, haven't really checked though. I also get 4% Scandinavian on FTDNA and 0.3% Scandinavian on 23andme. There's also family lore of some non Jewish Polish ancestry but I've yet to confirm it.

John Doe
06-11-15, 18:39
below are my fathers numbers



opulation



Oceanian
0.23%


Near_East
7.59%


Caucas-Gedrosia
17.83%


E_Asian
-


Beringian
-


Sub-Saharan
0.50%


Amerindian
0.67%


Siberian
-


ASI
0.96%


EEF
44.90%


WHG-UHG
27.32%




44.90% EEF Orange , the teal is 17% back


He has mtdna of T2B26

his eyes are below as its a 100% exact match via gedmatch ............first time for everthing

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/dad%20eyes_zpso5btsgzf.jpg


My numbers below

(http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/dad%20eyes_zpso5btsgzf.jpg.html)

Population



Oceanian
0.42%


Near_East
6.32%


Caucas-Gedrosia
20.29%


E_Asian
-


Beringian
-


Sub-Saharan
0.06%


Amerindian
-


Siberian
-


ASI
0.84%


EEF
44.39%


WHG-UHG
27.69%



(http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/dad%20eyes_zpso5btsgzf.jpg.html)
You seem to get an eye colour similar to mine, I have Green/grey eyes but Gedmatch shows me as Ice blue.7487

oreo_cookie
06-11-15, 18:43
Mine (37.5% Sicilian, 12.5% Sardinian, 25% Polish, 18.75% Portuguese, 6.25%% Cape Verdean):

Near_East 9.07%
ANE 17.89%
E_Asian 0.17%
Sub-Saharan 1.24%
Amerindian 1.64%
EEF 44.22%
WHG-UHG 25.78%


Mother's (50% Polish, 37.5% Portuguese, 12.5% Cape Verdean):


Oceanian 0.30%
Near_East 2.51%
ANE 16.42%
Sub-Saharan 2.38%
Amerindian 1.45%
ASI 0.36%
EEF 40.29%
WHG-UHG 36.30%

Angela
06-11-15, 19:17
I don't mind Angela. Yeah I have one Danish person with only one Jewish parent on COA, haven't really checked though. I also get 4% Scandinavian on FTDNA and 0.3% Scandinavian on 23andme. There's also family lore of some non Jewish Polish ancestry but I've yet to confirm it.

Thanks for responding, John. As for the eye color, the predictor wasn't bad for me, in that at least it got that they are basically brown, or were basically a sort of golden brown. I have gotten a lot more green in them over the years, though, and the prediction doesn't show that. That's a whole other topic that I'm sure people will research as time goes on: the changes to pigmentation with hormonal changes, aging, etc.

7488

It got the green in my husband's eyes though, but not enough of the gold flecks.
7489

Sile
06-11-15, 20:44
You seem to get an eye colour similar to mine, I have Green/grey eyes but Gedmatch shows me as Ice blue.7487

I get that colour for me as well, but I am mid-green eyes.........a bit darker than my father

Alan
07-11-15, 00:23
You seem to get an eye colour similar to mine, I have Green/grey eyes but Gedmatch shows me as Ice blue.7487

While we are at it. Gedmatch says I should have ended up with green eyes, but I have brown. So Gedmatch can only predict your most likely eye color but there is still a chance that you end up with a different color. One thing though my pupils are slightly larger. This however they got correct. They also seem to predict slightly larger pupils for me.


I have dark ring on outer edge like those.
https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-inline-half/public/blogs/56810/2011/04/62560-52965.gif?itok=CDhR6iIJ
http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12423005_f520.jpg

AC at: rs4778241 - High Melanin. Adds yellow, amber, or brown. Some darkening. Contributes Amber, Brown.
GG at: rs7174027 - Blocks some melanin. Often gives light colored eyes.
CT at: rs1129038 - Adds Yellow.
AA at: rs4778138 - Weak Amber Gradient
AG at: rs10467971 - Penetrance Modifier - Blue
GG at: rs12906280 - Gray ring around outer edge
GT at: rs1470608 - Medium melanin on Anterior Epithelium. Gives dark eyes.
CT at: rs1667394 - Medium melanin production on Anterior Epithelium. Adds yellow, amber, or brown. Some darkening.
CT at: rs916977 - Adds melanin. Adds yellow, amber, or brown.
CC at: rs16891982 - Increased melanin production on Anterior Epithelium. Adds yellow, amber, or brown. Some darkening.
CC at: rs12203592 - No pigmented Collarette.

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/6efc2d1143sxet9qnf.jpg

citizen of the world
21-01-16, 02:10
my result:


Population



Beringian
-


Amerindian
0.98%


Sub-Saharan
53.75%


Siberian
0.12%


Anatolian_NF
17.92%


Caucasus_HG
4.58%


European_HG
-


Oceanian
0.28%


South_Asian
3.69%


East_Asian
-


Near_East
18.67%

Inal
19-03-16, 19:45
Hello,

Where can I find the puntDNAL K11 calculator? On Gedmatch, I see K10 Ancient, K12 Ancient and Modern, K5 and K8 African only.

Inal
19-03-16, 19:46
Elapsed Time: 1.52 seconds






Population



ASI
-


Sub-Saharan
-


Oceanian
-


Beringian
-


ENF
27.98


CHG
22.39


Siberian
-


E_Asian
-


WHG
48.71


Amerindian
0.92






My puntDNAL K10 Ancient results.

Inal
19-03-16, 19:49
Elapsed Time: 2.22 seconds






Population



Sub-Saharan
-


Amerindian
0.86


South_Asian
-


Near_East
-


Siberian
0.20


European_HG
41.41


Caucasus_HG
19.53


South_African_HG
0.24


Anatolian_NF
37.77


East_Asian
-


Oceanian
-


Beringian
-






My puntDNAL K12 Modern results.

I have never scored South African Hunter Gatherer before. According to this calculator, it's 0.24. How should I interpret this?

Anglo-Celt
05-08-16, 07:11
I have some Gedrosia K11 CHG-NAF results I could share if that would do..
WHG. 37.97%
Neolithic Anatolian Farmer 21.98%
Caucasus Hunter Gatherer 17.35%
Eastern Hunter Gatherer 14.01%
Kalash 3.58%
South Indian 3.45%
Papuan 1.29%
East African 0.35%

My primary populations in that Oracle are all English and suffice it to say that is no real surprise.

Twilight
05-08-16, 11:05
If your DNA component in general is under 1% chance
are it's likely noise







-





Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Dutch_South
2.26


2
Utahn_European
3.73


3
English_South
3.97


4
Hungarian
3.98


5
German_South
4.42


6
Irish
4.61


7
Dutch_North
4.61


8
Belgian
5.1


9
German_North
5.35


10
Czech
6.66


11
Scottish_West
6.75


12
Croatian
6.85


13
Norwegian
7.36


14
Romanian
7.85


15
Swedish
9.11


16
French
10


17
Icelandic
10.74


18
Bulgarian
13.45


19
Belarusian
14.98


20
Mordovian
15.99



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

91.4%
Irish
+
8.6%
Georgian
@
1.59


2

91.8%
Irish
+
8.2%
Abkhasian
@
1.74


3

89.4%
Irish
+
10.6%
Balkar
@
1.85


4

89.4%
Irish
+
10.6%
Adygei
@
1.87


5

77.2%
Dutch_South
+
22.8%
Dutch_North
@
1.89


6

87.9%
Dutch_South
+
12.1%
Swedish
@
1.9


7

91.8%
English_South
+
8.2%
Lezgin
@
1.9


8

93.2%
English_South
+
6.8%
Abkhasian
@
1.95


9

91.1%
English_South
+
8.9%
Adygei
@
1.95


10

90.3%
Dutch_South
+
9.7%
Icelandic
@
1.96


11

86.4%
Dutch_South
+
13.6%
Norwegian
@
1.97


12

82.1%
Dutch_South
+
17.9%
German_North
@
1.99


13

94.8%
Dutch_South
+
5.2%
Finnish
@
1.99


14

95%
Dutch_South
+
5%
Estonian
@
2.01


15

86.7%
Norwegian
+
13.3%
Georgian
@
2.02


16

95.3%
Dutch_South
+
4.7%
Lithuanian
@
2.02


17

93.5%
Dutch_South
+
6.5%
Belarusian
@
2.02


18

80.6%
Dutch_South
+
19.4%
Irish
@
2.03


19

91.3%
English_South
+
8.7%
Balkar
@
2.05


20

87.1%
Dutch_South
+
12.9%
Scottish_West
@
2.06








Population



Sub-Saharan
0.23


Amerindian
-


South_Asian
-


Near_East
-


Siberian
0.64


European_HG
41.93


Caucasus_HG
22.66


South_African_HG
-


Anatolian_NF
34.54


East_Asian
-


Oceanian
-


Beringian
-







Sent from my iPad

Anglo-Celt
05-08-16, 20:49
My PuntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle on the other hand is a little more interesting and maybe a lot more accurate.
# Single Population ( Source) Distance
1 Utahn_European 3.22
2 English_South 3.39
3 Irish 4.43
4 German_South 4.71
5 Belgian 4.8
6 Dutch_South 4.81
7 Hungarian 5.36
8 German_North 6.23
9 Dutch_North 6.41
10 Scottish_West 6.58
11 Czech 6.64
12 Romanian 6.66
13 Norwegian 7.08
14 French 8
15 Croatian 8.07
16 Swedish 9.13
17 Icelandic 10.75
18 Bulgarian 14.08
19 Spanish Northeast 14.96
20 Belarusian 15.81

Mixed- Mode Population Sharing
# Primary Population ( Source) Secondary Population( Source) Distance
1 95.6% English_South 4.4% Saharawi 2.21
2 95.1% English_South 4.9% Tunisian 2.24
3 94.9% English_South 5.1% Algerian 2.25
4 72.6% French 27.4% Russian 2.26
5 95.3% English_South 4.7% Mozabite Berber 2.28
6 70.5% Czech 29.5% Spanish Northeast 2.42
7 91.3% Irish 7.7% Libyan Jew 2.44
8 93.1% Irish 6.9% Tunisian 2.44
9 97.7% Utahn_European 2.3% Paniya 2.45
10 97.4% English_South 2.6% Paniya 2.45
11 96.9% English_South 3.1% Saudi 2.45
12 95.9% English_South 4.1% Yemenite Jew 2.46
13 93.3% Irish 6.7% Mozabite Berber 2.46
14 95.8% English_South 4.2% Yemeni 2.47
15 93.9% Irish 6.1% Saharawi 2.47
16 95.4% English_South 4.6% Egyptian 2.48
17 94.4% English_South 5.6% Libyan Jew 2.48
18 74.4% German_North 25.6% Spanish Southwest 2.48
19 85.1% Irish 14.9% Spanish Canaries 2.5
20 91.8% Irish 8.2% Tunisian Jew 2.5

xaeon
12-01-18, 02:30
Here's mine!
-----Population---





African
-



Amerindian
-


ASI
0.27


Basal
2.15


Iran-Mesolithic
2.14


Neolithic
34.66


Oceanic
-


EHG
23.68


SEA
-


Siberian
1.95


WHG
35.14