PDA

View Full Version : Can Muslims live peacefully with Christians, and vice versa?



Pages : [1] 2

LeBrok
08-11-15, 19:27
Loose discussions on Muslim versus Christians points of view, conflicts, and redirected off topic posts from other threads.

bicicleur
08-11-15, 20:50
On the future that whole Europe will be islamised. This would happen many years onward form now. Till that day the majority of Muslims would be less conservative than they are today. The Islam world of the future will a tolerant and liberal one. This happened with Christianity. Seems history repeat itself.

how can you tell?
what indications do you have? or is it just wishfull thinking?
look what is happening in Turkey. I think Ataturk is turning in his grave.

LeBrok
08-11-15, 22:31
how can you tell?
what indications do you have? or is it just wishfull thinking?
look what is happening in Turkey. I think Ataturk is turning in his grave.
Progress is not linear phenomenon, it looks more like stock market chart. Imagine religious conservatism is at the bottom and libertarian society is a the top.

http://www.worldtrading.net/indices/graph_index_line.php?code=%5EGSPC&desc=S&P%20500%20Standard%20and%20Poor&top=2130.82,21%20May%202015&floor=0,03%20May%202010

Boreas
09-11-15, 11:17
Let me tell you Guys, what will happen in Europe.

Fanatic, Neo-Nazism behaviours against Muslims and Islam will start a new war wave.

(Many major European city have important level of muslim citizen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_pop ulation)

and Christian Europe will lose their the biggest weapon in that war, which is Secular Muslims. After that, the voice of real enlightened people of Europe will decrease and this will continune like a hate vortex.

Piro Ilir
09-11-15, 12:53
how can you tell?
what indications do you have? or is it just wishfull thinking?
look what is happening in Turkey. I think Ataturk is turning in his grave.
First- my post was about the future. That would happen many years from now. It's assumed by the intelligence agencies.

Erdogan took 49.2% of the voters. 1-Turkey is in war .
2- erdogan had manipulated the elections, although partly.
Even so he took less than 50%. He won because of the wrong elections system they have.

Turkey is having democratic problems. It's going to a dictatorial state. Has nothing to do with Islam. I don't think erdogan is a Muslim.

Piro Ilir
09-11-15, 13:08
Let me tell you Guys, what will happen in Europe.

Fanatic, Neo-Nazism behaviours against Muslims and Islam will start a new war wave.

(Many major European city have important level of muslim citizen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_pop ulation)

and Christian Europe will lose their the biggest weapon in that war, which is Secular Muslims. After that, the voice of real enlightened people of Europe will decrease and this will continune like a hate vortex.
Europe should be careful to this huge migration of Muslims. They are coming from areas of conservative Islam. This could infect Europe and change the demographic balances between the conservative Muslims and liberal Muslims. I hope they don't bring refugees from Syria in my country. There is a huge difference between the Muslims of Syria and the Muslims or Balkans. We don't want here that kind of Islam.

I saw the Turkish elections in tv. I saw many women there covered with hijab. Even then wife of president it's covered. What the hell is happening there? They are destroying Turkey and that's too sad

bicicleur
09-11-15, 13:57
First- my post was about the future. That would happen many years from now. It's assumed by the intelligence agencies.

Erdogan took 49.2% of the voters. 1-Turkey is in war .
2- erdogan had manipulated the elections, although partly.
Even so he took less than 50%. He won because of the wrong elections system they have.

Turkey is having democratic problems. It's going to a dictatorial state. Has nothing to do with Islam. I don't think erdogan is a Muslim.

I don't know whether Erdogan is a Muslim. But he made many comments in which he implies that Muslims are superior people who have nothing to learn from western values.
Erdogan is very popular with Muslims who buy that kind of rhetoric. It is his main electorate.
That is why it is so frightening what is happening in Turkey.

bicicleur
09-11-15, 14:03
Progress is not linear phenomenon, it looks more like stock market chart. Imagine religious conservatism is at the bottom and libertarian society is a the top.

http://www.worldtrading.net/indices/graph_index_line.php?code=%5EGSPC&desc=S&P%20500%20Standard%20and%20Poor&top=2130.82,21%20May%202015&floor=0,03%20May%202010

well, that doesn't look good for Europe
as long as new non-secular Muslims keep coming in from the Middle East and countries like Afghanistan it will be a big problem
I wish they became secular in the Middle East and Afghanistan first before coming over, but that won't happen soon, on the contrary

bicicleur
09-11-15, 14:10
Let me tell you Guys, what will happen in Europe.

Fanatic, Neo-Nazism behaviours against Muslims and Islam will start a new war wave.

(Many major European city have important level of muslim citizen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_pop ulation)

and Christian Europe will lose their the biggest weapon in that war, which is Secular Muslims. After that, the voice of real enlightened people of Europe will decrease and this will continune like a hate vortex.

Europe is not afraid of the secular Muslims
the fundamentalist Muslims are enemies of both Christians and secular Muslims

and Europe is not defending Christianity, it is defending secularism, something that seems to be disapearing in Turkey

and I admit, for Europeans it is sometimes dificult to see the diference between secular and non-secular Muslims
then again, you think all Europeans that don't agree with you are nazi

Taranis
09-11-15, 18:04
well, that doesn't look good for Europe
as long as new non-secular Muslims keep coming in from the Middle East and countries like Afghanistan it will be a big problem
I wish they became secular in the Middle East and Afghanistan first before coming over, but that won't happen soon, on the contrary

People are fleeing en-masse from an entity that is literally the wet-dream of radical Muslims (the so-called "ISIS" or "Da'eesh"), do you really think its plausible that people who flee from this would become supporter of the same ideology? In my opinion, the mere existence of Da'eesh is something that in the long-run will force islamic fundamentalists to question their own believes and in the end, become more moderate. You have to think about this: radical Islam as it has unfolded itself over the past decades offers no perspective for a future. It has no aspirations for building a stable society, for economic growth and prosperity. What it actually means is living a day dream about perpetual war, genocide and sexual domination. And you don't need a degree from Havard to figure out that that's a really bad idea. I'm pretty sure that for example, not even the Muslim Brotherhood would want what Da'eesh has done to Syria to also happen in Egypt.

So, stop being paranoid about Muslim immigration, and frankly, stop being racists.

Boreas
09-11-15, 18:18
Europe is not afraid of the secular Muslims


There is an idiom in my language, "wet wood can burn with dry wood". At least the meaning similar like that :grin:. Maybe you just want to burn dry ones, but rage in Europe will hit also secular muslims



the fundamentalist Muslims are enemies of both Christians and secular Muslims


All fanatic ideas which base on religion, political view, race or gender are enemy of humanity.



and Europe is not defending Christianity, it is defending secularism

with increasing and feeding local racists.



something that seems to be disapearing in Turkey


Unfortunately true, Europaen people who declare don't eat kebab and act like these won't solve anything.



then again, you think all Europeans that don't agree with you are nazi


Yes, if you think all muslim are fundamentalist. :grin:

If 1% of Muslim are fundamentalist, people remind that like every Muslim same as if 1% of European are nazi, people remind that too. This is basing nature, but we should be better then this.

Yetos
09-11-15, 18:49
@ piro

you would like Europe to become islamic state,
since you are one,

@ Boreas
Radical Islam is 1/3 of the islamic world,
fetvas are above any law, either state, either international,

@ Lebrok

yes, cause soon we WILL HAVE ANOTHER HYPATEIA, SCYTHOPOLIS, etc etc,
Islam will turn Europe to 4-8 were every Greek/pagan should die to praise the one and only God or
where palimpsista, were raised to write prays to 'Lord'
or to 14-17 century AD were all scientists were magicians, who should burn to holy fire,

accept it,
Christians are good people?
yes or no, they killed Hypateia, they created Scythopolis, they destroy 85% of all ancient world, even the Olympics,

Islamists are good people?
yes or no they destroy Budas in India, and Palmyra temple, and Assyrian heritage,
WAIT TO SEE WHEN THEY CONGUER EUROPE!!!!!!!


@ to all
Wait to see Daesh or Boco Haram etc to take slaves your daughters,
wait to see you daughters stop school at 12-15 years old,
wait to be shot as 'charlie' just because you said a word about something wrong,

Rethel
09-11-15, 19:12
Europe is not afraid of the secular Muslims
the fundamentalist Muslims are enemies of both Christians and secular Muslims

But such a thing like secular muslim does not exist.


and Europe is not defending Christianity, it is defending secularism, something that seems to be disapearing in Turkey

And this is very sad, so Europe will be muslim - especially Belgium? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/thinking.gif


and I admit, for Europeans it is sometimes dificult to see the diference between secular and non-secular Muslims

Because secular muslims does not exists.


then again, you think all Europeans that don't agree with you are nazi

This is very common on this forum, when someone does not fit with
sacred words, is acusing of being nazi, rasist or agent of Stormfront.


If 1% of Muslim are fundamentalist, people remind that like every Muslim same as if 1% of European are nazi, people remind that too. This is basing nature, but we should be better then this.

This is simply not true. Maybe secular muslims are 1%. Among this
ones which are living on the West it is maximum 20%. The 20% of
all muslims (300.000.000 people!) are extrimly fundamentalist, and
this means that they can today go and blow themselves. The rest
60-80% are supporting this 20% of extrimers.

Secular muslim = non muslim at all. At least... he can be deceptive,
and be claiming his secularity to missinform of sabotage unbelivers.
There is no other option in Islam. This, what you are now claiming
Boreas is taqqiya. Nothing less and nothing more.

Rethel
09-11-15, 19:21
wait to be shot as 'charlie' just because you said a word about something wrong,

You do not need muslims for that.
Political corectness is even more effective than they are.
So it will be a little change, but not so big as it is allready.
You do not belive? Write something here about some tabu...

bicicleur
09-11-15, 19:32
People are fleeing en-masse from an entity that is literally the wet-dream of radical Muslims (the so-called "ISIS" or "Da'eesh"), do you really think its plausible that people who flee from this would become supporter of the same ideology? In my opinion, the mere existence of Da'eesh is something that in the long-run will force islamic fundamentalists to question their own believes and in the end, become more moderate. You have to think about this: radical Islam as it has unfolded itself over the past decades offers no perspective for a future. It has no aspirations for building a stable society, for economic growth and prosperity. What it actually means is living a day dream about perpetual war, genocide and sexual domination. And you don't need a degree from Havard to figure out that that's a really bad idea. I'm pretty sure that for example, not even the Muslim Brotherhood would want what Da'eesh has done to Syria to also happen in Egypt.

So, stop being paranoid about Muslim immigration, and frankly, stop being racists.

you don't know the history of Islam
Islam fundamentalism is nothing new, it is almost as old as Islam itself
how long does hatred between shia and sunni exist? almost as long as Islam itself
there have always been fundamentalist fractions inside Islam, for over 1200 years now
if your reasoning above would be correct, Islam wouldn't exist anymore today
the truth is Islam is unable to coop with their own funadmentalists
Muslims are embarrased about this, they prefer to forget and not to talk about this
they don't want us to talk about it either

and you are going to tell me Christians were the same
well, Europe is a secular state now and 99 % of Christians accept it
not so for Muslims, especialy for those coming into Europe now

and sorry for telling you this, I must be a terrible racist because I don't agree with you

and yes, most of the immigrants don't form a threat, it is a minority
furthermore most of the immigrants are no fugitives either, they are adventurers who are told they'll get an easy life in Europe
well, Europe is unable to host all those adventurers from all over the world whatever Merkel may have said
I wonder what is going to happen at the European borders now it appears this flow isn't going to stop

Rethel
09-11-15, 19:57
Europe is a secular state now

Bicicleur,
Europe is not secular. This is only an euphemism for some unnamed "secular" religion.
Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

Of course, some people belive in that empty phrase... secular... but it is curve ball...

Taranis
09-11-15, 20:01
you don't know the history of Islam
Islam fundamentalism is nothing new, it is almost as old as Islam itself
how long does hatred between shia and sunni exist? almost as long as Islam itself
there have always been fundamentalist fractions inside Islam, for over 1200 years now
if your reasoning above would be correct, Islam wouldn't exist anymore today
the truth is Islam is unable to coop with their own funadmentalists
Muslims are embarrased about this, they prefer to forget and not to talk about this
they don't want us to talk about it either

Actually, my reason is exactly correct, and there's two good examples from history there that prove my point, namely where major Islamic polities ceased to exist because they engaged in orgies of intolerance and extremism. The first is Al-Andalus (Muslim Iberia) under the Almohads, who were much more intolerant of religious minorities (especially Jews) than their forebearers, and who vastly hastened the demise of Muslim Iberia during their rule. Its probable that Al-Andalus would have lasted longer - perhaps even to the present day consider that the last sultan of Granada was unseated in the same year as Columbus discovered the New World) - without this episode. The second example is the Mughal Empire under Aurangzeb, who ruined the Mughal Empire through his widespread progromes and military campaigns against Hindus - the end effect was that he left the entire subcontinent in a destitute condition to be taken over by the English.

As for the Sunni-Shia divide, I will agree with you in so far as that in the talk of right-wing nutjobs in the West, this is a concept that doesn't show up. Instead, the Islamic world is prefered to be viewed as a monolithic, homogenous blob on the map, so that you can justify to perceive it as a "threat" to Western civilization.

DuPidh
09-11-15, 20:27
in Europe some are afraid ISIS will now start attacking civilians worldwide
it is an argument to keep restraint and not to confront ISIS head on
Europeans are chickens, I wonder whether they are able to do what it takes
we prefer to wait for the US and the Russians to act and after that we critisize them
we tend to give credit to organisations like the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights who spread news info that can't be checked

Europeans are tired of wars. Only in ww2 were killed an estimated

Boreas
09-11-15, 20:33
Secular muslim = non muslim at all. At least... he can be deceptive,
and be claiming his secularity to missinform of sabotage unbelivers.
There is no other option in Islam.

It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.

Rethel
09-11-15, 20:47
It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.

I do not decide, neither you, but Mohammed and at least islamic scholars...
You can of course claim that you are a muslim and secular. I saw even a
homosexual activist who was claiming that he is a muslim... But it is not
a matter of personal choice... but of following the rules.

If I create today society of Q-men, and I make a rule, that Q-men can be only
lefthanded and wearing red shirts, and everyone, who is righthanded and wearing
shirts in different colour is not a Qman - then who will decide, who can be a Qman???
Someone who want to wear blue shirt? No. I will decide, because I am the one making
the rules deciding who can be a Q-man and who can be not.

So this is not a matter of personal describing who can be a muslim, but matter of rules.

Btw, if there will be such a thing like secular normal muslim, then on the West were
be no need for muslims gettos, for banning the burka, there will be not problem with
burning cars and blowing buses, and people woudnt be wearing themselves as Arabs.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02907/Jordan-Horner_2907951b.jpg

bicicleur
09-11-15, 21:30
Actually, my reason is exactly correct, and there's two good examples from history there that prove my point, namely where major Islamic polities ceased to exist because they engaged in orgies of intolerance and extremism. The first is Al-Andalus (Muslim Iberia) under the Almohads, who were much more intolerant of religious minorities (especially Jews) than their forebearers, and who vastly hastened the demise of Muslim Iberia during their rule. Its probable that Al-Andalus would have lasted longer - perhaps even to the present day consider that the last sultan of Granada was unseated in the same year as Columbus discovered the New World) - without this episode. The second example is the Mughal Empire under Aurangzeb, who ruined the Mughal Empire through his widespread progromes and military campaigns against Hindus - the end effect was that he left the entire subcontinent in a destitute condition to be taken over by the English.

As for the Sunni-Shia divide, I will agree with you in so far as that in the talk of right-wing nutjobs in the West, this is a concept that doesn't show up. Instead, the Islamic world is prefered to be viewed as a monolithic, homogenous blob on the map, so that you can justify to perceive it as a "threat" to Western civilization.

you know the history, probably even better than me
but you give the answer yourself, correct me if i'm wrong
indeed the example we always get of tolerant and openminded Muslims in history were the Morish Omayades in Spain, but they forget that they were replaced by the very strict Almohads
weren't the Almohads themselves replaced by the rather fundamentalistic Christian reconquistadores?
and you state yourself that the - contrary to his predecessors - very strict Aurangzeb left the country in chaos till the British came
i don't want to relive this all again in Europe
the fact that ISIS is able to recruit so easily so many of its warriors in Europe by some preachers with a radical vocabulary of hatred doesn't make me optimistic at all
and the fact that many of them are 'converts' and adventurers doesn't make it better, it's the vocabulary that does it

and yes, most non-Muslims don't know about the century-long history of divide and hatred between Sunni and Shia
but as I told, Muslims are embarrased by this and don't talk about it, neither do they want us to talk about it
it seems to me they themselves cannot explain this if Islam is realy 'the religion of love and peace'

bicicleur
09-11-15, 21:45
Bicicleur,
Europe is not secular. This is only an euphemism for some unnamed "secular" religion.
Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

Of course, some people belive in that empty phrase... secular... but it is curve ball...

political correctness is the new religion
it's a selfdestructive religion
it won't last, but in the mean time it will have made a lot of damage

Rethel
09-11-15, 21:59
Islam is realy 'the religion of love and peace'

I think Bicicleur, that this is generaly a false assumption at all.

Islam is at first a religion of Mohammed who claimed to have the true message.
And what it menas love and peace must be filter by his definitions of this words and of goal of Islam.

Love and peace is only for Muslims. Shias are not muslims for sunnis, and sunnis are not muslims for shias.
They are even worse than jews and christians, because they are apostates. That's all.

Islam is from the beginnig going to take the world. But by the world they mostly mean Christendom.
And from the beginning they are doing this by the sword. So, why should they be a religion of peace?
And btw, why at all religion MUST be a religion of peace? Why religion cannot be a religion of war? If
someone expected that, then he will be certainly decived by muslims, who have in their theology so
called taqiyya which allow any muslim to decive unbelivers for spreding Islam.

Yetos
09-11-15, 22:30
It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.


Boreas you are from Turkey,

A country that started as Shia with Seljouks, become Suni, populated by taqqiya, expelled Bektasi muslims,
and finally today is trebling among Kemalic state, and Sultan-Erdogan state,

I guess you know the difference among Con/polis muslims, to far East/South Turkey radical Islam,

just answer your shelf,
for you, you are maybe a true muslim,
for radical Islamists like Daesh, are you a true Muslim?
and can you live, study, work with a Kufar/.Cafir?

just answer your shelf,
when your imams, say women must not drive,
how will you react?
will you allow your wife to drive?
and if you would, how will you feel, if someone throw a stone to her, cause she drives?

LeBrok
10-11-15, 03:46
But such a thing like secular muslim does not exist.


Because secular muslims does not exists.
Your above statement contradicts yours below:


This is simply not true. Maybe secular muslims are 1%. Among this
ones which are living on the West it is maximum 20%. The 20% of

That's why we can't have intellectual conversation with illogical person.








This is very common on this forum, when someone does not fit with
sacred words, is acusing of being nazi, rasist or agent of Stormfront.


There is no tolerance for intolerant people on Eupedia. I'm predicting it is only a matter of time till your next ban.

LeBrok
10-11-15, 04:01
Bicicleur,
Europe is not secular. This is only an euphemism for some unnamed "secular" religion.
Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

Of course, some people belive in that empty phrase... secular... but it is curve ball...
Wow, we have conspiracy theorists on steroids, lol. On top of it you are as fundamentalist and extremist as ISIS, and you fight for the same god. If you didn't notice 70% Europeans are Christians and only 20% of agnostics and atheists. If anything Europe is predominantly pro Christian. Again, your bold and intolerant statements have little to do with reality. Can't you see that your mind is tricking you?

LeBrok
10-11-15, 04:19
Europeans are tired of wars. Only in ww2 were killed an estimated Good point. Both world wars brought only disaster, distraction, death and suffering to all Europeans, and nobody truly won and benefited of it. Well, except Americans, because European firms were in ruins and without capital, American companies could easily expend worldwide (and in Europe) catching biggest share of the market. Europeans had to kill each other in tens of millions to finely notice that nobody can rally win, got smarter and try peaceful way for a change. With great benefits as we can see these days.
This killing, arm wrestling of various groups, is going on today in Near East. Many might be killed and massacred till they learn, as well as Europeans, that this is not the right way to go about. In mean time this creates a brain drain, because most talented and with money go to Europe to find a safe place to live. This might in turn slow down economic growth and cause lack of professionals in the region in the future.

LeBrok
10-11-15, 04:23
It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.
Exactly my observations too. Radical Christians or radical Muslims, what's the difference? They just grew up in different countries, that's all. Their haltered for different others is same strong and unforgiving.

LeBrok
10-11-15, 04:34
political correctness is the new religionWhat about kindness and tolerance? By the way, religion is organized spirituality.


it's a selfdestructive religion it won't last, but in the mean time it will have made a lot of damagePure speculation. Can you give example of politically correct country destroyed by itself. I can give plenty of examples of intolerant and conservative countries or systems which are long gone. Should I start?

LeBrok
10-11-15, 04:40
Love and peace is only for Muslims. Shias are not muslims for sunnis, and sunnis are not muslims for shias.
They are even worse than jews and christians, because they are apostates. That's all.
. They are so worse than you, because you only hate: socialists, atheists, homosexuals, evolutionists, antichrists, communists, masons, jews and of course muslims.


Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

Boreas
10-11-15, 08:01
If I create today society of Q-men, and I make a rule, that Q-men can be only
lefthanded and wearing red shirts, and everyone, who is righthanded and wearing
shirts in different colour is not a Qman - then who will decide, who can be a Qman???
Someone who want to wear blue shirt? No. I will decide, because I am the one making
the rules deciding who can be a Q-man and who can be not.


This is a bit ridiculous :laughing:

Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.




Btw, if there will be such a thing like secular normal muslim, then on the West were
be no need for muslims gettos, for banning the burka, there will be not problem with
burning cars and blowing buses, and people woudnt be wearing themselves as Arabs.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02907/Jordan-Horner_2907951b.jpg

Real Jewish, all others are Heretic :grin:

http://www.vosizneias.com/assets/uploads/news_photos/thumbnails/700_rbiu9hcv6oi0tslfjhwu4czl8zr72art.jpg




Boreas you are from Turkey,

A country that started as Shia with Seljouks, become Suni, populated by taqqiya, expelled Bektasi muslims,
and finally today is trebling among Kemalic state, and Sultan-Erdogan state,

I guess you know the difference among Con/polis muslims, to far East/South Turkey radical Islam,

just answer your shelf,
for you, you are maybe a true muslim,
for radical Islamists like Daesh, are you a true Muslim?
and can you live, study, work with a Kufar/.Cafir?

just answer your shelf,
when your imams, say women must not drive,
how will you react?
will you allow your wife to drive?
and if you would, how will you feel, if someone throw a stone to her, cause she drives?

Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?

https://theorthodoxlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/headcovering21.jpg

In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.

bicicleur
10-11-15, 09:38
What about kindness and tolerance? By the way, religion is organized spirituality.

Pure speculation. Can you give example of politically correct country destroyed by itself. I can give plenty of examples of intolerant and conservative countries or systems which are long gone. Should I start?

Political correctness is new, it started in the 70's.
Everyone who dissagrees is acused of being Nazi.
It is political correctness that killed Pim Fortuyn in cool blood on the street.
Many political correct men were rejoiced because of his death. He was to intelligent and spoke his mind, political correct people couldn't handle him.

Political correctness is to young to have destroyed itself.
Political correctness is Merkel inviting people from all over the world to become German citizins, and finding out afterwards that the flow becomes incontrolable.
Now they are discussing how they will close the borders. In the mean time Europe is full of adventurers and fortune seekers who shouldn't be here at alland who are very dificult to remove from Europe again.
It is this kind of stupidities that will finish political correctness in the end.

Sile
10-11-15, 11:20
This is a bit ridiculous :laughing:

Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.




Real Jewish, all others are Heretic :grin:

http://www.vosizneias.com/assets/uploads/news_photos/thumbnails/700_rbiu9hcv6oi0tslfjhwu4czl8zr72art.jpg




Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?

https://theorthodoxlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/headcovering21.jpg

In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.

.
One must ask the question of why 80% of muslim who are sunni want to kill off 20% shia muslim ..................or is it the sunni arabs against the shia Persian
!!!!!!!

Rethel
10-11-15, 11:40
Your above statement contradicts yours below:

No, its no contradict, what I explained in larger context.

1. In Islam there is no such thing like secular person - so everyone who
claims to be one, exclude himself from Ummah or is a liar. Secular muslim
is not a muslim at all - by islamic teachings.

2. This not means, that don't exist people, who claim to be so called "secular muslims".

3. Generally in Islamic world it is maybe 1% - as Boreas was claim, that fundamentalist are 1%, it was paralel sentence.

4. But among the muslims who lived in the West this could me more, because they lived
under influence of western society, so there could be even 20% (as some ststistics claim)
Even if it is so big number, then still 80% are totaly normal, "fundamentalist" muslims.


That's why we can't have intellectual conversation with illogical person.

Yea, disscussion, with someone, who dont want understand on puropse or do not get simple thought-shorts.


There is no tolerance for intolerant people on Eupedia. I'm predicting it is only a matter of time till your next ban.

I predict that you will do this becasue tou want it.
Intolerance person in tour meaning means "someone who do not agree with Lebrok".

Your tolerance we all saw when you was colosing threads which you do not liked,
or was claiming, that someone is someone who he wasn,t, or was talking about
something about that he was not. In that manner everyone can be shout down,
because you want that.

Rethel
10-11-15, 11:56
Wow, we have conspiracy theorists on steroids, lol. On top of it you are as fundamentalist and extremist as ISIS, and you fight for the same god. If you didn't notice 70% Europeans are Christians and only 20% of agnostics and atheists. If anything Europe is predominantly pro Christian. Again, your bold and intolerant statements have little to do with reality. Can't you see that your mind is tricking you?

So you are living in some imagine world - I was suspecting this,
and some people here were suggesting this, but now I am sure.

And now I am as ISIS... wow... so if you like belive in that...
And this you called intelectual disscussion, if you do not know even about what I was writing about...

Bilecular was writing about European Union, and I was writing about that - about state, not people.

As about people: maybe 70% called themselves christians, but they are not.
They are behaving like secular atheists and nihilists. In France only 5% of so
called "belivers" is going to church, and most of this 70% in Europe has mostly
the same customs and belives as atheists. Religion not influance their decisions
in life. So they at least can be called as cultural christians, because they are
celebrated two or three holydays in year plus wedding and baptisms and it's all.

Christian it is someone who behave like christian and belivbe like christian, not only claiming to be.

If someone belive in evolution, abortion, homosexuality aso - he is not a true christian.
He is more atheists and secular. In catholic and probably orthodox church such a person
excommunicate himself without need of any church action.

And were you see a concpiracy theory? I don't know.

About GOdF - this is not a secret. You can go to their base in Paris and go inside. Almost everone
french politician is a member of this organisation - he must be to keep secular course of the state.
About maosists - for example Joseph Emmanuel Barosso is one of them and he even is proud of that.
About zero-grouth belivers - this is obvious because UE is making everything to kill economy...

Rethel
10-11-15, 12:02
They are so worse than you, because you only hate: socialists, atheists, homosexuals, evolutionists, antichrists, communists, masons, jews and of course muslims.

You see - you cannot live without imputing someone, something, that he does not feel.

And where you saw the Jews (especially, that I hate them??????) Where???????? This is simply your imagination.

So who is beliving in conspiracy theories - I or maybe you?

Rethel
10-11-15, 12:21
This is a bit ridiculous :laughing:

It was very simplified - but you even do not understand that.


Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

That should decide shias and sunnis.
They both have different hadiths, so - probably this ones, who will kill the others at all?.
But becuse of many bizzare (more than sinnis) teachings of shias, I suspeced that sunnis are right theologicaly.
But in the case of succession - who knows, mabe shias are right? No one can know exactly now.


If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.

???


Real Jewish, all others are Heretic :grin:

Secular Jews who do not even belive in Tora - certainly are.


Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?

So I see you do not understand Christianity.
We do not have so many rules as muslims and jews for every aspect of life.
We have no need to wearing some cloths - but it not means, that cultural customs are not different in different countries.
Even monogamy is a cultural thing based on Roman Law - not a biblical necessery thing.

But in Islam everything is regulating by holy and halfholy scriptures.
Even which hand you must use to which thing, how to sleep, how to eat, how to wear...
So do not compare Christianity to Islam, becuase there is a huge abyss between them.

Btw, we, by principle, are free - you by principle are slaves.
And this is pattern in every kind of life and teachings.
We can do whatever we want to - exept some necessery borbidden things.
Muslims cannot do nothing exept things which are allow by Koran or Sunna.

Our first (and second) comandment is to love God the Father, and love neighbours.
Yours is to be obidient to Allah-slave-owner, hate the unbelivers and be not so bad for another muslim.


In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.

So you are an apostate, becuase you do not want to be a muslim by name.
This is not personal choice. You are not a definer of Islam, but Mohammed is.
Read his life - and you'll see, how should behave a true muslim.
Mohammed is a perfect muslim. Not you.

He killed 800 jews in Jathrib, and two another tribes exiled.
He had sex with dead body in grave.
He had sex with nine year old girl.
He killed every non beliver in Arabia.
He is the example - and he was not secular at all.

You cannot be a muslim without Mohammed and Koran.
You cannot define what you want Islam to be, or not.

Rethel
10-11-15, 12:30
It is this kind of stupidities that will finish political correctness in the end.

And at the and, there will be a huge massacre.
And then politcorecors will say, that it was fault of christians of course...
But they never ever see fault in their own camp.

LeBrok
10-11-15, 16:37
Christian it is someone who behave like christian and belivbe like christian, not only claiming to be. Right, for you Catholics are true Christians, and for ISIS Sunni are the true Muslims. You think alike.



If someone belive in evolution, abortion, homosexuality aso - he is not a true christian. Believe? Abortion and homosexuality exists and you can touch it. Your logic doing tricks on you again.
This explains why you don't get evolution. It takes some brain power to grasp it.


He is more atheists and secular. In catholic and probably orthodox church such a person
excommunicate himself without need of any church action.
On way, Orthodox are Christians!? Aren't you stretching your definition of Christianity too much?



And were you see a concpiracy theory? I don't know.

I know you don't know, but at least you sort of suspect what normal people mean by that, and I'm glad you rushed with examples:

About GOdF - this is not a secret. You can go to their base in Paris and go inside. Almost everone
french politician is a member of this organisation - he must be to keep secular course of the state.
About maosists - for example Joseph Emmanuel Barosso is one of them and he even is proud of that.
About zero-grouth belivers - this is obvious because UE is making everything to kill economy...

PS. I don't think you understand Jesus's preaching either. You do and say exactly opposite.

LeBrok
10-11-15, 16:46
You see - you cannot live without imputing someone, something, that he does not feel. Yes you can. Come to Canada to see this yourself. It exists, you can touch it, you don't need to believe it or not. So easy.
The key worlds is tolerance and inclusiveness.

Stop being afraid of others, others different than you. They are people with feelings, good people. They don't want to kill you or harm you. They just want to live like people, like you. Stop being afraid and paranoid. Follow Jesus's preaching about love, forgiveness, mercy, tolerance and compassion. Drop your axe and follow Jesus, dude.
And yes, he was a politically correct man.



So who is beliving in conspiracy theories - I or maybe you?
Check the definition, otherwise you don't understand what people are talking about.

Rethel
10-11-15, 16:54
Right, for you Catholics are true Christians, and for ISIS Sunni are the true Muslims. You think alike.

And you again know better than I... amazing.
And someone was talking about brain power...


Believe? Abortion and homosexuality exists and you can touch it. Your logic doing tricks on you again.

Again... where I wrote that abortion and homosexuality do not exist? Where?


On way, Orthodox are Christians!? Aren't you stretching your definition of Christianity too much?

Did I somewhere said, that they are not?
Third time in one post, you are arguing with your imagination.


I know you don't know,

So explain, where you saw this conspiracy theory?


I don't think you understand Jesus's preaching either. You do and say exactly opposite.

But you, who hates God, Bible and Christians, understand him perfectly... wow...
If you were understanding in such way (as it seem to be), then I understand why
you are not a christian any longer. This is normal process - you are not the only one.

LeBrok
10-11-15, 16:56
Political correctness is to young to have destroyed itself.
It is not political or economic system to destroy a country. It is just a way of being nice to people, being inclusive and tolerant.

LeBrok
10-11-15, 17:04
And you again know better than I... amazing.
And someone was talking about brain power...
Are you suggesting you are the smartest in the world? Perhaps you want to share your original ideas?



Again... where I wrote that abortion and homosexuality do not exist? Where? You wrote that you believe in them. Why would you believe if they exist? It is not logical.




Did I somewhere said, that they are not?
Third time in one post, you are arguing with your imagination. I forgot that you can only tell who is a Christian, sorry.



But you, who hates God, Bible and Christians, understand him perfectly... wow...
If you were understanding in such way (as it seem to be), then I understand why
you are not a christian any longer. This is normal process - you are not the only one.I'm not like you, I don't hate others. I have friends from all religions, race or sexual orientation. Live and let live. Follow the Christ's teaching...

Rethel
10-11-15, 17:13
Yes you can. Come to Canada to see this yourself. It exists, you can touch it, you don't need to believe it or not. So easy.
The key worlds is tolerance and inclusiveness.

I completly do not understand what you are talking about.
I was talking about this, that you know better than I, what I am thinking.
That's all.


Stop being afraid of others, others different than you.

I am cetainly not afrraid about anyone. Neigher homosexuals naither salafits.
You really think, that if someone is decribing some situations or facts, he must
be afraid, and if he don't agree with your vision he allready hates someone...
But this is your imaginary world...


They are people with feelings, good people. They don't want to kill you or harm you.

No, they only are killing unborn children, they want teach MY children even in preschool
how two sodomites do what they do, they want settle jihadists in my neibourhood, they
want banned my christian belives, they want teach MY children about evolution and atheism...

They really do not want do to me anything, what I do not want... very good people...

But you know what? Hitler and Stalin wanted to do good things for another people too...
And they were atheists and evolutionists... and socialists as present day gooddoers...


They just want to live like people, like you.

Everyone wants... even cannibals and rapers...


Stop being afraid and paranoid.

And you stop persuade me that I am, when I am not.


Follow Jesus's preaching about love, forgiveness, mercy, tolerance and compassion. Drop your axe and follow Jesus, dude.

:lmao:

Good joke! :laughing:



And yes, he was a politically correct man.

:petrified:

So, when he was preaching about going to hell he was political correct?
When he was preaching about observing the Law, which was for example
sentencing homosexuals to be stoned - he was political correct? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/petrified.gif


Check the definition, otherwise you don't understand what people are talking about.

I know exactly what it is, because I am fighting this theories as a stupidity.
Only you probably do not knows, because for you, something what do not
fit to your worldview, is or rasist, or conspiracy theory, oor hating...
And you are claiming that you are open minded... :useless:

Rethel
10-11-15, 17:40
Are you suggesting you are the smartest in the world? Perhaps you want to share your original ideas?

No, it are you who are suggesting to everyone, that you are the smartest, because you have the only true
view on the world, and any one else is not in his mind. This is you, who were insulting me writing, that for
understand this what you understand I need a brain, which I do not have.

And you misquoting me on purpose everytime.

In this case, I was only cliaming, that you know better than I,
that I was claimed that Catholics are the only true christians.
I never make such a claim. From were do you take this?


You wrote that you believe in them.

I cetainly didnt wrote this. Again you twisting my words.
I only wrote, that if someone belive in this, he is not a true christian.
Belive, in sense, that he aproove this and claim to be good and christian.
This was obvious from the context.


Why would you believe if they exist? It is not logical.

As above.

Plus - you have very strange definition of belive...

Were it is written, that belive can only in something that not exist?

Cannot you belive in Ideas?
Cannot you belive in yout country?
Cannot you belive, that your wife loves you?
Cannot you belive that your wife is not cheeting on you?
Cannot you belive in constitution?
Cannot you belive in the Bible?

They all are not existing?


I forgot that you can only tell who is a Christian, sorry.

No, no I.
In Christianity everyone who is baptized is a christian.
But it does not mean that he is a true christian.
Because the true christian is obeserving biblical commandments and values.
If someone approve homosexuality, which is condemn in both Testaments,
then he is not the true christian. He is an apostate and false deciples of Jesus.
Exactly the same as in the case of muslims.


I'm not like you, I don't hate others.

And again, you know better whom I hate, than I. :)
Can you understand, that "I'm not agree" "I dont like"
and "I do not support" is not the same as "I hate"?


I have friends from all religions, race

I too, and what?


Live and let live.

Did I kill someone?


Follow the Christ's teaching...

Who was condeming sinners to Gehenna...

bicicleur
10-11-15, 18:20
It is not political or economic system to destroy a country. It is just a way of being nice to people, being inclusive and tolerant.

it is putting your own principles personal in front of pragmatical acting and common sense
it is demanding that others share your same principals and way of acting and that all necessary public resources are adressed to achieve it

maybe I agree we should accept refugees, maybe I don't, it's not the point
but inviting the whole world of fortune seekers and creating and uncontrolable flow of them and not communicating how much this whole joke is finally going to cost, you can be sure it will create a counterstream
political correctness may be at its top now, it might start to decline, that is what I sense here in Europe
people were acused of being racist for giving their opinion when the refugee crisis started, now many realise and acknowledge those people spoke sense

Rethel
10-11-15, 19:26
it is putting your own principles personal in front of pragmatical acting and common sense
it is demanding that others share your same principals and way of acting and that all necessary public resources are adressed to achieve it

maybe I agree we should accept refugees, maybe I don't, it's not the point
but inviting the whole world of fortune seekers and creating and uncontrolable flow of them and not communicating how much this whole joke is finally going to cost, you can be sure it will create a counterstream
political correctness may be at its top now, it might start to decline, that is what I sense here in Europe
people were acused of being racist for giving their opinion when the refugee crisis started, now many realise and acknowledge those people spoke sense

For example, in Holland it looks like this:

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12189950_10153199251562060_6263732448839647938_n.p ng?oh=1c539c158b709ac683f7c31a9856116e&oe=56C3EBA8


So, wich ones are new masters, and who are new slaves working on them?
And what the new masters give to the new country exept bombs and jihadists?

This is the logic of "free loving world" - be an atheist and homo, invite muslims to be killed by them.
This is a way how they are using their brains.

Another example:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/05/worlds-first-lesbian-bishop-calls-church-remove-crosses-install-muslim-prayer-space/

This is a genious of this new nihilistic society. But christians (these who belives in rules) are
stupid, nazi, blind and do not have enough brain (to not destroy civilisation or to be not killed...)

But when will be a war, this brilliant nihilists and atheists loving everyone (like LeBrok)
will be the first who accept Islam, and they will be staying in the first line in the mosque
praying to Allah, to destroy unbelivers - i.e. the same as they are doing today - christians.
No one from them will be gladly dying for homosexualists, christians, jews or atheists.

No one of them is going to Arabia teaching Arabs their antyvalues... they are doing this
only here, because brainless, untolerant and nazi christians allowed them to do that...

Boreas
10-11-15, 21:04
.
One must ask the question of why 80% of muslim who are sunni want to kill off 20% shia muslim ..................or is it the sunni arabs against the shia Persian
!!!!!!!

In similar way, how you can swim in Australia? there are lot's of shark attack in there. Your words have that much value.

There is an idiom between Turks and Azeris, which is "one nation two country". One of them sunni, one of them shia. yes there are conflict, yes sometimes people are bombing others mosques, but still your words are not a general thing.


It was very simplified - but you even do not understand that.

I just wanted to see you could use own logic and perspective for another thing. But I guess, it is impossible.



???

Why you are suprising, this is your logic.



Secular Jews who do not even belive in Tora - certainly are.


This is about language difference, I was talking about religion not a ethnic group. Jew and Jewish are different in Turkish. You are using "Moses Follower" (Musevilik) like Christ and Christian so of course there could be a Turk (ethnic) who doesn't believe in Quran and similarly, there could be a Jew (ethnic) who doesn't belive in Tora.



So I see you do not understand Christianity.
We do not have so many rules as muslims and jews for every aspect of life.
We have no need to wearing some cloths - but it not means, that cultural customs are not different in different countries.
Even monogamy is a cultural thing based on Roman Law - not a biblical necessery thing.

But in Islam everything is regulating by holy and halfholy scriptures.
Even which hand you must use to which thing, how to sleep, how to eat, how to wear...
So do not compare Christianity to Islam, becuase there is a huge abyss between them.

Btw, we, by principle, are free - you by principle are slaves.
And this is pattern in every kind of life and teachings.
We can do whatever we want to - exept some necessery borbidden things.
Muslims cannot do nothing exept things which are allow by Koran or Sunna.


Which century are you living bro ???



Our first (and second) comandment is to love God the Father, and love neighbours.
Yours is to be obidient to Allah-slave-owner, hate the unbelivers and be not so bad for another muslim.


I just want to remind you that as I told my religion section is empty in my national ID, so there won't be funural for me in a mosque. :cool-v:

Secondly who the hell are you decide my believe.

and Thirdly, I admires you, I know everthing about Islam as much as Muhammed :grin:



So you are an apostate, becuase you do not want to be a muslim by name.
This is not personal choice. You are not a definer of Islam, but Mohammed is.
Read his life - and you'll see, how should behave a true muslim.
Mohammed is a perfect muslim. Not you.


Again I am telling you, just I can decide what my religion is, not you.

Quran begins with word "read" , so people should read, this is what my grand pa teached me, but there is no space for good things in your mind for a islam

or you have no idea about islamic view which is "love the all creatures, because of the creator"

You are talking about burka, but I am wondering that do you know how many muslims in Europe wearing it.

and I don't think that you are showing same behaviour against racist Europeans who burn cars.

Piro Ilir
10-11-15, 21:50
I don't know whether Erdogan is a Muslim. But he made many comments in which he implies that Muslims are superior people who have nothing to learn from western values.
Erdogan is very popular with Muslims who buy that kind of rhetoric. It is his main electorate.
That is why it is so frightening what is happening in Turkey.
The democracy it's the main value of western countries today. For a man like him, who wants to stay forever in power, the democracy it's a big obstacle. [emoji6] . He is just using Islam for his own goals. That's just disgusting.

Yes, there are some ignorants who think he is a new sultan. What is happening in Turkey is normal for a weak democratic country. Just look at Hungary. You know what? What is happening today with Turkey, Hungary and some other countries, I predicted years ago. The democracy it's not so easy to imply. Turkey, Hungary, Greece and other countries are having democratic problems because of their past. Look at Macedonia, Albania, etc. They still have big problems with democracy. The democracy needs many years to be implemented. Some of these countries had military juntas, and some others were communists regimes. I think real democracies we have only in western Europe. Le Broke is right about his views on the matter, and I agree with him. The journey to democracy, it's a long one.

Rethel
10-11-15, 21:55
I just wanted to see you could use own logic and perspective for another thing. But I guess, it is impossible.

But in your logic, you can redefine Islam. Congratulations.


Why you are suprising, this is your logic.

I was asking what you have in mind because your example was nonsensical and unrealistic.


This is about language difference, I was talking about religion not a ethnic group. Jew and Jewish are different in Turkish. You are using "Moses Follower" (Musevilik) like Christ and Christian so of course there could be a Turk (ethnic) who doesn't believe in Quran and similarly, there could be a Jew (ethnic) who doesn't belive in Tora.

But term Jews have double meaning. Btw, jewishness is based on religion.
You can't be a Jew if your ancestors wasn't jews by faith. Term jew is an
equivalent to a muslim or christian. Who is an ethnic Jew - no one really
knows... probably such a person has to have primal genealogy do Jacob,
but this is impossible. In such a case, only less than 14% (maybe 10%?
maybe even much less) could be cout as ethnic Jew or Israelite...
In Isarel are endless debates who the real jew is...


Which century are you living bro ???

What it has to do with theology and Holy Scriptures?
And you want me maybe to tell, that ISIS does not
exist because you are all living in XV century a.h.?:rolleyes2:


Secondly who the hell are you decide my believe.

I do not want to decide in what are you beliveng.
You can even belive in some UFO-man or holy cow.
This is your bussines. But if you are talking about
Islam, who has his rules and regulations, holy books,
and theology, then you must keep this, and making
claims by the book. Because you did not invent Islam,
and you are not an author of the book.


Again I am telling you, just I can decide what my religion is, not you.

No, but if you are telling me, that you are a m-u-s-l-i-m,
then you must belive like Mohammed tells you to belive,
exactly, as christian must belive as Moses, prophets and
especially Jesus and apostles are telling in the scripture.


Quran begins with word "read",

In my Quran it is in the page 727 in XCVI chapter :innocent:

By the way, how Mohammed could read, if he was illiterate?:innocent:


so people should read, this is what my grand pa teached me,
but there is no space for good things in your mind for a islam

There are couple biblical thingns in Islam - for example killing idolates or sodomites.

But Islam, as a religion is a suecide doctrine, because he is depending on the Bible.
Even Koran says that if you do not understand somethnig - go to the christians, go
to the Bible and look into the holy scriptures which they have... This green book is
claiming, that is fully agreeable with the Bible - so, everyone can compare this two
books - what I of course did and I am still doing - and make some conclusions.
In VII century on the arabian desert it was impossible, because most of the people
were pagans, and these who were christians didn't have a Bible in their posession.
Jews, who probably had some scriptures, and were publicly saying that this what
is preaching Mohammed is a nonsense - mix of pagan, gnostic and talmudic miths,
he simply killed or enslaved. And it was the end of discussion about truth in Islam.


or you have no idea about islamic view which is "love the all creatures, because of the creator"

Please, give me the chapter, verse, and abrogetion rule to this fragment.


and I don't think that you are showing same behaviour against racist Europeans who burn cars.

:lmao:

1. Since when muslims are a... race? :petrified:

2. I didnt see a eurpeans who are burning cars in Ankara, or any other place...

3. I didn't see christians who are blowing a buses in Riyyad...

4. The most 'rasist' states in the world are muslim states... so ples, dont speak a nonsese about europeans...

5. In Suadi Arabia if some Christian has a Bible or want to go to Mekka he is simply killing... so dont be a hipokryte...

6. In islamic states, christians and Jews are... dhimmis... so do not be a hipokryte...

7. In Islam, whites are devils, and blacks are second sort of people...

So, what are you talking about?

Piro Ilir
10-11-15, 22:04
@ piro

you would like Europe to become islamic state,
since you are one,

@ Boreas
Radical Islam is 1/3 of the islamic world,
fetvas are above any law, either state, either international,

@ Lebrok

yes, cause soon we WILL HAVE ANOTHER HYPATEIA, SCYTHOPOLIS, etc etc,
Islam will turn Europe to 4-8 were every Greek/pagan should die to praise the one and only God or
where palimpsista, were raised to write prays to 'Lord'
or to 14-17 century AD were all scientists were magicians, who should burn to holy fire,

accept it,
Christians are good people?
yes or no, they killed Hypateia, they created Scythopolis, they destroy 85% of all ancient world, even the Olympics,

Islamists are good people?
yes or no they destroy Budas in India, and Palmyra temple, and Assyrian heritage,
WAIT TO SEE WHEN THEY CONGUER EUROPE!!!!!!!


@ to all
Wait to see Daesh or Boco Haram etc to take slaves your daughters,
wait to see you daughters stop school at 12-15 years old,
wait to be shot as 'charlie' just because you said a word about something wrong,



Who is Islamic state? And where do you see that I want Europe to be an Islamic state? Do you have any logic? What is wrong with you?

Just look at to Greece first. That's the only non secular state of Europe. It's still ruled by the archbishops. You know well what I am talking about [emoji6]

Piro Ilir
10-11-15, 22:13
But such a thing like secular muslim does not exist.



And this is very sad, so Europe will be muslim - especially Belgium? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/thinking.gif



Because secular muslims does not exists.



This is very common on this forum, when someone does not fit with
sacred words, is acusing of being nazi, rasist or agent of Stormfront.



This is simply not true. Maybe secular muslims are 1%. Among this
ones which are living on the West it is maximum 20%. The 20% of
all muslims (300.000.000 people!) are extrimly fundamentalist, and
this means that they can today go and blow themselves. The rest
60-80% are supporting this 20% of extrimers.

Secular muslim = non muslim at all. At least... he can be deceptive,
and be claiming his secularity to missinform of sabotage unbelivers.
There is no other option in Islam. This, what you are now claiming
Boreas is taqqiya. Nothing less and nothing more.
Before talking about Muslims, you should travel more.

According to you Christian- secular exists, but a Muslim -secular doesn't exits? That's your theory? So, one Muslim who is pro secular, is a deceptive? Right?
Do you ever been in Albania, or in Balkans? You don't know anything about Muslims, so stop talking about something you don't have knowledge.

Rethel
10-11-15, 22:17
Before talking about Muslims, you should travel more.

According to you Christian- secular exists, but a Muslim -secular doesn't exits? That's your theory? So, one Muslim who is pro secular, is a deceptive? Right?
Do you ever been in Albania, or in Balkans? You don't know anything about Muslims, so stop talking about something you don't have knowledge.

Maybe you simply do not know ISLAM. You know maybe muslims, but Islam?
Probably not. Or you know very well and you are diciving us. Why? Because
you belive in such a doctrine... so the probablity is always... There are also
christians, who do not know what Christianity is... so...

If you really do not know what taqiyya is... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya



According to you Christian- secular exists, but a Muslim -secular doesn't exits? That's your theory?

No, this is not my theory, but if you are asking, I can aswer, that christians can be both
secular and faithfull, becasue Christianity based on the principle: what belongs to Caesar,
to Caesar, what belongs to God - to God. Similar rule was in ancient Israel.

Islam is different. It is more political doctrine, than simply faith.
Islam began as a state, and was spreading by the state...

Most christians through all history were secular - but not unreligious.

So being secular by definition makes you not an apostate in Christianity.
You must be promoting or doing some unbiblical things to be an apostate.

In Islam it is different. You cannot make an accusation based on the same
thing, becasue Islam and Christianity it is not the same - there are totally
different rules and bilieves. If would be the same, then they would not be
two different religions.

Btw, one of the accusations against the West from yours side is
this, that West (Europe) is secular... So why are you so amazed?

Rethel
11-11-15, 02:24
Who is again cutting my posts?

Yetos
11-11-15, 02:35
Before talking about Muslims, you should travel more.

According to you Christian- secular exists, but a Muslim -secular doesn't exits? That's your theory? So, one Muslim who is pro secular, is a deceptive? Right?
Do you ever been in Albania, or in Balkans? You don't know anything about Muslims, so stop talking about something you don't have knowledge.

so you are a Turko-Albanian,
but you use avatar of a catholic priest,
why?
Do you think that you can deceive us?

Yetos
11-11-15, 02:39
Who is Islamic state? And where do you see that I want Europe to be an Islamic state? Do you have any logic? What is wrong with you?

Just look at to Greece first. That's the only non secular state of Europe. It's still ruled by the archbishops. You know well what I am talking about [emoji6]

in your post,
you wrote something,
and I said that you might be glad to see that happens,
what is your problem?
look at your country,
which is the 4rth most Jihadist country in the world.

Yetos
11-11-15, 02:50
This is a bit ridiculous :laughing:

Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.




Real Jewish, all others are Heretic :grin:

http://www.vosizneias.com/assets/uploads/news_photos/thumbnails/700_rbiu9hcv6oi0tslfjhwu4czl8zr72art.jpg




Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?

https://theorthodoxlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/headcovering21.jpg

In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.

no I am not an Orthodox christian,
I am Polytheist, Pagan, old religion,

I agree with you, nobody can decide for you what you will believe,
BUT CAN YOU DECIDE FOR ME IF I DO NOT SHARE YOUR RELIGION, THAT I AM A KUFAR, AND SINCE THAT NOT WORTHY, AND MUST DIE?
IF YOU DECIDE RADICAL ISLAM, WILL YOU DESTROY THE STATUES OF MY GODS?

that is the difference,
and I am the first here that said that Christianity did that first, millenium before,

But since you live in a country, that is trebling, with one foot in the 'west' and one foot in 'east'
it is rather you that have to decide, and answer to your shelf


modern christianity, has nothing to do with ex-christinity,
time for Islam to accept the different,
to stop consider me, my daughters, etc as Kufar,

PS
you still did not answer me,
If an imam gives a fetva, that no woman should drive,
would you forbid your wife to do so?

Sile
11-11-15, 07:09
In similar way, how you can swim in Australia? there are lot's of shark attack in there. Your words have that much value.

There is an idiom between Turks and Azeris, which is "one nation two country". One of them sunni, one of them shia. yes there are conflict, yes sometimes people are bombing others mosques, but still your words are not a general thing.





You comment is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike

All terrorist actions are from sunni moslems, I have yet to see any shia terrorism lately ..............if you know of one recently..link it, I will check it out.

As per your ISIS sunni people who state they can create their own version of the Quran as per sunni doctrine, they have changed the anti-slavery doctirne of the Quran and state that by raping Yazidi or any other non sunni women by 10 different sunni men, will automatically make this women a sunni moslem ............this is the way these ISIS sunni state think, an ISIS , backed monetarily by the Saudis and other arabian states ............by backing them , the saudis have basically agreed they support the "changing" of the quran to suit sunni needs ......you call this a religion!

LeBrok
11-11-15, 08:24
I am cetainly not afrraid about anyone. Neigher homosexuals naither salafits.
You really think, that if someone is decribing some situations or facts, he must
be afraid, and if he don't agree with your vision he allready hates someone...
But this is your imaginary world... Do you wish they were dead or didn't exist at all?




No, they only are killing unborn children, they want teach MY children even in preschool
how two sodomites do what they do You mean you don't want "them" to teach your kids tolerance, inclusiveness and compassion.



they want settle jihadists in my neibourhood Right, for you every Muslim is jihadist. Did Jesus said "There should be only Christians in my neighborhood?



they want banned my christian belives, Give an example of banning Christian beliefs in Europe.



they want teach MY children about evolution and atheism.. So they won't be mental handicaps like you. Dude, are you afraid of a knowledge? Are your kids stupid enough not to figure out what is good for them, what works or not? How will they exercise the free will without any temptation?
People like you burn books with different way of thinking.
Guess what, Muslim fundamentalists like ISIS don't let kids to learn about evolution and atheism either. As I noticed before, you are exactly made of the same clay.
I have no problem with my kids learning everything, Christianity included, and making their own choices in life.


But you know what? Hitler and Stalin wanted to do good things for another people too... What did they do good for Polish people? They were intolerant racist psychopaths.



Everyone wants... even cannibals and rapers... Are you for real?!!! I think you have a big psychological problem if you see a cannibal and rapist in every not "true" Christian.



So, when he was preaching about going to hell he was political correct?Of course, because inclusively all people can go to hell black, white, rich, poor, straight and homosexuals. Hell is for everyone, same as heaven.

When he was preaching about observing the Law, which was for example
sentencing homosexuals to be stoned - he was political correct? He was the one who broke the law, was hated by priests and was killed for this. Please, cite Christs saying that homosexuality is a sin. On other hand, he said that slaves should obey masters. So maybe all "true" Christians should have slaves?




I know exactly what it is, because I am fighting this theories as a stupidity.How do you know that your faith is the only true one? Would you be a Christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia? You would be a devoted conservative Sunni Muslim, probably fighting for ISIS now. Knowing your character, killing and raping the unfaithful.
One is for certain, a tribal instinct is very strong in you. You believe in your tribe's traditions, ways and religion, just because you were born there, and not by choice or free will. Like learning a language from your parents, you also learned traditions and religion. It didn't require logic and analytical thinking. It required pure tribal instinct and memory of learning what they taught you, nothing more. You didn't make a choice, just went on pure instinct and tradition. This tribal instinct also tells you that you and your tribe is the best, knows better ways, is special, unique, and the rest of the world must be stupid, because if the rest were smart like you, they would chose the only true ways and your true religion.
So tell us, how do you figure that your religion is the true one?



And you are claiming that you are open minded... :useless:
I have no problem with my kids learning everything, Christianity included, and making their own choices in life. You on the other hand would ban evolution and atheism and many more subjects you consider stupid or sinful, so pure eyes of your children would never glaze upon this forbidden knowledge.

Boreas
11-11-15, 09:51
But in your logic, you can redefine Islam. Congratulations.

Thanks:rolleyes2: But, again you shouldn't be suprised. That's why there are branches, nearly in every religion.




I was asking what you have in mind because your example was nonsensical and unrealistic.

But term Jews have double meaning. Btw, jewishness is based on religion.
You can't be a Jew if your ancestors wasn't jews by faith.


You are not just the smart guy in here :good_job:. Just mother ancestry is acceptable for being Jew. I know some little things too.

But still your perspective is like fundamentalis Judaism. It looks without yours, you are just taking worst example of the other religions.

There are conversion in Judaism too, my friend, so you can't be Jew(ethnic), if your mom is not a Jew(ethnic), but you can be a follower of Judaism and get into Jew(religion) community.



Term jew is an equivalent to a muslim or christian.


When you mean religion, yes, but not if you are using it with ethnic meaning. Your view is like coming for middle aged. In the middle age, when you became a muslim, people also could call it he became a Turk. I also mentioned about it before.




you want me maybe to tell, that ISIS does not
exist because you are all living in XV century a.h.? :rolleyes2:


Thanks to Western Arm Industry.



I do not want to decide in what are you beliveng.
You can even belive in some UFO-man or holy cow.
This is your bussines. But if you are talking about
Islam, who has his rules and regulations, holy books,
and theology, then you must keep this, and making
claims by the book. Because you did not invent Islam,
and you are not an author of the book.


Do you have any idea how Talmud see the non-Jew?

Do you have any idea how women in the bible?

Theology is a living thing, it always evolves with living new theologs, with their new perspectives.

How many Catholic country left which ban the divorce right? or Christianity doesn't have theology, holy books, etc. :confused2:



No, but if you are telling me, that you are a m-u-s-l-i-m,
then you must belive like Mohammed tells you to belive,
exactly, as christian must belive as Moses, prophets and
especially Jesus and apostles are telling in the scripture.


Two different version of a story

A jew’s bier passed by the Messenger of Allah ﷺ and he stood; and [the companions] said: O Messenger of Allah [ﷺ], it is a jew’s bier. He [ﷺ] said: But I stood for the angels.

A funeral passed by the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and he stood up. It was said to him, “It is a Jew.” The Prophet said, “Was he not a soul?”

Religion is that kind of path, with each choices you will have a different religion :grin:




Please, give me the chapter, verse, and abrogetion rule to this fragment.


From Yunus Emre, you can also find this translation: love the created for the creator's sake



1. Since when muslims are a... race? :petrified:

2. I didnt see a eurpeans who are burning cars in Ankara, or any other place...

3. I didn't see christians who are blowing a buses in Riyyad...

4. The most 'rasist' states in the world are muslim states... so ples, dont speak a nonsese about europeans...

5. In Suadi Arabia if some Christian has a Bible or want to go to Mekka he is simply killing... so dont be a hipokryte...

6. In islamic states, christians and Jews are... dhimmis... so do not be a hipokryte...

7. In Islam, whites are devils, and blacks are second sort of people...

So, what are you talking about?

Let's talk you, when you become enough wise to develop empahty.

Example, I am trying to tell you, let's criticize what is wrong in all religion, in all culture. You are in a swamp. You can tell you "In Islam, whites are devils, and blacks are second sort of people...", but you are far from criticize you, check the black people riots in USA.

You can argue with me Chrisitanity that much nice, Islam is that much bad, but it won't help the black people.

Rethel
11-11-15, 12:06
Do you ever been in Albania, or in Balkans? You don't know anything about Muslims, so stop talking about something you don't have knowledge.

So lets see, how it is in
the Balkans and among
the Albanians in Kosowo...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OogwK5fRHI

Boreas
11-11-15, 12:06
no I am not an Orthodox christian,
I am Polytheist, Pagan, old religion,


That's a new thing :grin:

[QUOTE=Yetos;470021]

no I am not an Orthodox christian,
I am Polytheist, Pagan, old religion,


That is a new thing. I will try to remember it




I agree with you, nobody can decide for you what you will believe,
BUT CAN YOU DECIDE FOR ME IF I DO NOT SHARE YOUR RELIGION, THAT I AM A KUFAR, AND SINCE THAT NOT WORTHY, AND MUST DIE?
IF YOU DECIDE RADICAL ISLAM, WILL YOU DESTROY THE STATUES OF MY GODS?


Of course not, unless it is a Hera Statue; the enemy of Trojan (just a joke :grin: )



that is the difference,
and I am the first here that said that Christianity did that first, millenium before,


Please, be honest. Minaret ban is still symbol of that kind of perspective. Read something about burned Black Churches in USA. Do you thing they are Muslim?

Maybe White Christians try to kill all Black Christians like Sile theory about Shia-Sunni

or there is some part of text in Bible which says Black people are second class as Rethel have found it in Quran

http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/black-churches-burning-ferguson-area/

Release your clear sided minds. People should rise up for every singel act like that. Their origin is out of topic, Islam, Hindusim or anything else.




modern christianity, has nothing to do with ex-christinity,
time for Islam to accept the different,
to stop consider me, my daughters, etc as Kufar,


The point is not stopping people calling kufar, the point is remove the all negative meanings of it. It should be just a name of non-muslim, nothing more. Being Kufar or not shouldn't see as a symbol of good people.

It can be consider with word barbarian

you still did not answer me,
If an imam gives a fetva, that no woman should drive,
would you forbid your wife to do so?


Will you murder a virgin girl just because a priest command you? Human sacrifice is something inside ancient Greek religion. According to Rethel's mind, you can't change it, if you try it, you won't be a Greek pagan.

Even there are gay imams on the world, what are you talking?:thinking:

bicicleur
11-11-15, 12:12
The democracy it's the main value of western countries today. For a man like him, who wants to stay forever in power, the democracy it's a big obstacle. [emoji6] . He is just using Islam for his own goals. That's just disgusting.

Yes, there are some ignorants who think he is a new sultan. What is happening in Turkey is normal for a weak democratic country. Just look at Hungary. You know what? What is happening today with Turkey, Hungary and some other countries, I predicted years ago. The democracy it's not so easy to imply. Turkey, Hungary, Greece and other countries are having democratic problems because of their past. Look at Macedonia, Albania, etc. They still have big problems with democracy. The democracy needs many years to be implemented. Some of these countries had military juntas, and some others were communists regimes. I think real democracies we have only in western Europe. Le Broke is right about his views on the matter, and I agree with him. The journey to democracy, it's a long one.

yes democracy is weak
it can only survive if the majority of the people accept secularism
you keep telling Balkan Muslims are secular
but I'm not so sure about the Muslims that are entering Europe now
and I'm not so sure about Muslims that entered Europe the last few decades either

looking at Turkey, it is not certain where it will go to
so those Muslims entering Europe now won't help democracy in Europe
they will be a big burden and harmful to both economy and society
some of them even dream of overthrowing democracy in Europe and turn it in a Muslim state in the future
'the Quran is more important than democracy'

Rethel
11-11-15, 12:14
they have changed the anti-slavery doctirne of the Quran

Sile, ISIS couldn't change it, because muslims was owners of slaves since the beginning.
Mohammed had slaves, and his favorite one was blond girl from Egypt named Mariya, who
bore him even a son Ibrahim. In Koran you have many verses which accepted slavery, and
you can also erased your sins by freeing a slave... In Middleages slavery it was muslims
domain - they captured or byed from the Jews about one million Europeans. One north
african sultan captured 300.000 white girls from Spain. If you consider this that population
was very small, you have the picture. The slave market in Mekka was closed about. 1965.

Rethel
11-11-15, 12:15
Do you wish they were dead or didn't exist at all?



You mean you don't want "them" to teach your kids tolerance, inclusiveness and compassion.


Right, for you every Muslim is jihadist. Did Jesus said "There should be only Christians in my neighborhood?


Give an example of banning Christian beliefs in Europe.


So they won't be mental handicaps like you. Dude, are you afraid of a knowledge? Are your kids stupid enough not to figure out what is good for them, what works or not? How will they exercise the free will without any temptation?
People like you burn books with different way of thinking.
Guess what, Muslim fundamentalists like ISIS don't let kids to learn about evolution and atheism either. As I noticed before, you are exactly made of the same clay.
I have no problem with my kids learning everything, Christianity included, and making their own choices in life.

What did they do good for Polish people? They were intolerant racist psychopaths.


Are you for real?!!! I think you have a big psychological problem if you see a cannibal and rapist in every not "true" Christian.


Of course, because inclusively all people can go to hell black, white, rich, poor, straight and homosexuals. Hell is for everyone, same as heaven.
He was the one who broke the law, was hated by priests and was killed for this. Please, cite Christs saying that homosexuality is a sin. On other hand, he said that slaves should obey masters. So maybe all "true" Christians should have slaves?



How do you know that your faith is the only true one? Would you be a Christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia? You would be a devoted conservative Sunni Muslim, probably fighting for ISIS now. Knowing your character, killing and raping the unfaithful.
One is for certain, a tribal instinct is very strong in you. You believe in your tribe's traditions, ways and religion, just because you were born there, and not by choice or free will. Like learning a language from your parents, you also learned traditions and religion. It didn't require logic and analytical thinking. It required pure tribal instinct and memory of learning what they taught you, nothing more. You didn't make a choice, just went on pure instinct and tradition. This tribal instinct also tells you that you and your tribe is the best, knows better ways, is special, unique, and the rest of the world must be stupid, because if the rest were smart like you, they would chose the only true ways and your true religion.
So tell us, how do you figure that your religion is the true one?



I have no problem with my kids learning everything, Christianity included, and making their own choices in life. You on the other hand would ban evolution and atheism and many more subjects you consider stupid or sinful, so pure eyes of your children would never glaze upon this forbidden knowledge.

I will not discussing with you because you are
unonest, and you are again canceling my posts.

Rethel
11-11-15, 12:41
Thanks:rolleyes2: But, again you shouldn't be suprised. That's why there are branches, nearly in every religion.

Yes, but are some borders, behind which,
something called X is not X any longer.
Islam is more restrict in that matter.


You are not just the smart guy in here :good_job:. Just mother ancestry is acceptable for being Jew. I know some little things too.

But he never will be an Israelite.
He will be only consider as proselyte.
And this matrylinear rule is not accepted
in every branch - this is mostly pharesean
invention, not biblical of course.


But still your perspective is like fundamentalis Judaism.

Its funny, Le Brok accused me of being fanatic Catholic, you compare me to Jews... :)
I can be even an atheist and still can hold my posision, that if you belive in X you
must belive in X-teachings, not your own. :cool-v:


There are conversion in Judaism too, my friend, so you can't be Jew(ethnic), if your mom is not a Jew(ethnic), but you can be a follower of Judaism and get into Jew(religion) community.

As above.


When you mean religion, yes, but not if you are using it with ethnic meaning. Your view is like coming for middle aged. In the middle age, when you became a muslim, people also could call it he became a Turk. I also mentioned about it before.

But we were talking about judaism, and there religion is twisted with nationality invented in XX century.


Thanks to Western Arm Industry.

Thanks to christian "crusiders" :clap:
You yourself give a evidence, that witout
christian world you couldn't be so... unislamic... :smile:


Do you have any idea how Talmud see the non-Jew?

Yes, I have, very similar as Islam, but you are both
from the same civilisation, so it is not surprise.


Do you have any idea how women in the bible?

Much better than in Koran - but very important thing is how you realize rules.


Theology is a living thing, it always evolves with living new theologs, with their new perspectives.

But not in Islam, and not everything in Islam is theology, so...
You cannot belive that Mohammed wasn't god's messenger
and be a muslim - or maybe in your definition you can?:petrified:


How many Catholic country left which ban the divorce right?
or Christianity doesn't have theology, holy books, etc. :confused2:

You see... no you not... you are again looking from islamic perspective.
In catholic church nothing is changing anout divorces. European states
DO NOT MAKE THEOLOGY. Btw, did not even makes this catholics, but
mostly communists and atheists. And it not chaned theology. Youi have
very wrong perspective...


Two different version of a story

A jew’s bier passed by the Messenger of Allah ﷺ and he stood; and [the companions] said: O Messenger of Allah [ﷺ], it is a jew’s bier. He [ﷺ] said: But I stood for the angels.

A funeral passed by the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and he stood up. It was said to him, “It is a Jew.” The Prophet said, “Was he not a soul?”

Religion is that kind of path, with each choices you will have a different religion :grin:

I have no idea what you have in mind, and this story is very obscure.

If you want proof, that muslim writings are contradicted each other - I agree.
But still...


From Yunus Emre, you can also find this translation: love the created for the creator's sake

As I ask: chapter, verse and abroggation rule please.


Let's talk you, when you become enough wise to develop empahty.

Talking about subject does not mean empathy.
You are a woman...?


Example, I am trying to tell you, let's criticize what is wrong in all religion, in all culture. You are in a swamp. You can tell you "In Islam, whites are devils, and blacks are second sort of people...", but you are far from criticize you, check the black people riots in USA.

But you never ever can find any thing against the blacks in the Bible.
In Koran and Hadiths.... be my guest... :smile:


You can argue with me Chrisitanity that much nice, Islam is that much bad, but it won't help the black people.

Hmmm... but where blacks had/have much highter standart of life?
In pagan Africa? In muslim countries? Or maybe in western countries?

Rethel
11-11-15, 13:03
Of course not, unless it is a Hera Statue; the enemy of Trojan (just a joke :grin: )

You were joking, but you give a very good example how the whites think about.
This is (I suspect) why christianity so well fited to Europe, and why we were
more succesfull than muslims. This thinking comes from the very ancient times
and you can find it in the Bible of course too. This is why we fitted to this texts
and jews (who in majority had "islamic"/middleeastern mentality) didn't.

The result of this, is for example Talmud - they simply must created a new "Bible"
because the old one, was mostly not agreeable with their mentality and culture.

This is mine secular theory :smile: Theistic reasons are in this ofcourse too...


Please, be honest. Minaret ban is still symbol of that kind of perspective.

There should be a ban of Islam at all... like christianity is banned in Turkey...


Read something about burned Black Churches in USA. Do you thing they are Muslim?

And again you have muslim perspective. For you, everything what people do, is according to religion.


Maybe White Christians try to kill all Black Christians like ile theory about Shia-Sunni

Shia - sunni it was a political problem from the beginning.
Your "faithfull" caliphs were simply killing each other because
every one wanted to rule... it was the same as is in Syria now.


or there is some part of text in Bible which says Black people are second class as Rethel have found it in Quran

No, there isn't.


Release your clear sided minds. People should rise up for every singel act like that. Their origin is out of topic, Islam, Hindusim or anything else.

So you should rise against Islam!
Burn the Mecca, burn the Koran! :laughing:



he point is not stopping people calling kufar, the point is remove the all negative meanings of it. It should be just a name of non-muslim, nothing more. Being Kufar or not shouldn't see as a symbol of good people.

But cannot you simply called us christians or peoples?
Taqiya... taqiya...


It can be consider with word barbarian

When we are looking at this hordes which are coming to Europe, and how they behave
or at this people who lived here from some time in gettos - this is really very bad word,
because it insult ancient Germanic peoples... they should be called rather troglodites or
something like that, than barbarians... or maybe pagans... busurmans... saracens...


Will you murder a virgin girl just because a priest command you? Human sacrifice is something inside ancient Greek religion. According to Rethel's mind, you can't change it, if you try it, you won't be a Greek pagan.

Yes of course. And this is the third reason, why
this whole neopagan movment is a BIG nonsens.
This is rather carnaval, when they can eat and
wear old fashion clothes than a religion...

For example slavic pagans do not burn widows... :sad-2:


Even there are gay imams on the world, what are you talking?:thinking:

And such an imam is crying laudly about that in Mekka to be heard... :lmao:

Rethel
11-11-15, 14:17
that is the difference, and I am the first here that said that Christianity did that first, millenium before,

Yetos, do not complain, becuase you - pagans - were much worst.
Did you forget, how you treated us during 300 years - how you were
laughing on us when you puted us in the arena to be eaten by lions?
Did you forgotten, how you were triyng to burn every scriptures and
kill everyone who read them during hellenization in Syria and Palestine,
and during roman perseciutions until 313?

We only broken some of your worthless statues, but we also preserve
them so you know how they looked. We also preserve your mithology,
so you know now, how and in what to belive...

Btw - why are you serve to gods, who do not exist, or if they are, they
cannot help themselves and were destroyed by THE REAL ONE - YAHWEH.
This is not very wise to belive in such worthless deity as greeks gods are...

bicicleur
11-11-15, 15:30
Let's talk you, when you become enough wise to develop empahty.

Example, I am trying to tell you, let's criticize what is wrong in all religion, in all culture. You are in a swamp. You can tell you "In Islam, whites are devils, and blacks are second sort of people...", but you are far from criticize you, check the black people riots in USA.

You can argue with me Chrisitanity that much nice, Islam is that much bad, but it won't help the black people.

you're funny

ok, tell me about the black people today (not about slavery of Arabs and European colonists and in America or Saudi-Arabia where it lasted till 1962)

what harm is done to them ?
who are doing harm to them?

what did you want to tell?
Boko Haram?

explain to me

Boreas
11-11-15, 15:41
All terrorist actions are from sunni moslems, I have yet to see any shia terrorism lately ..............


Check the Hezbollah and wasn't Iran West's biggest enemy just before the Nuclear Agreement?

LeBrok
11-11-15, 16:44
I will not discussing with you because you are
unonest, and you are again canceling my posts.
Which post was canceled? If moderator modifies your post you can see his/her name as a last editor.
Conspiracy mind doing tricks?

Rethel
11-11-15, 16:54
Which post was canceled? If moderator modifies your post you can see his/her name as a last editor.
Conspiracy mind doing tricks?

Certainly I can see this, when post is gone... :laughing:

Yesterday at evning I had 314 posts.
In the night it was only 313.

And this is not first time.

Yetos
11-11-15, 20:50
Yetos, do not complain, becuase you - pagans - were much worst.
Did you forget, how you treated us during 300 years - how you were
laughing on us when you puted us in the arena to be eaten by lions?
Did you forgotten, how you were triyng to burn every scriptures and
kill everyone who read them during hellenization in Syria and Palestine,
and during roman perseciutions until 313?

We only broken some of your worthless statues, but we also preserve
them so you know how they looked. We also preserve your mithology,
so you know now, how and in what to belive...

Btw - why are you serve to gods, who do not exist, or if they are, they
cannot help themselves and were destroyed by THE REAL ONE - YAHWEH.
This is not very wise to belive in such worthless deity as greeks gods are...


First I am Polytheist,
but I never told you who are my Gods,

Second the case of Nero and Caligulla,

Search better the story of Nero,
He was not the monster that christians claim,
Nero liberated millions of slaves,
Nero was destroying Rome's rotten elite class,
that is why an alliance among his enemies and christians was set, to trap him,

Search better what he done, and his laws,
do not fall in the christian propaganda,

Nero was not the man christians describe,
Historians say that wherever he went he liberated the slaves,
he changed the laws of slavery, and he tried for a better political system, giving land to slaves, and trying to stop the 'buy votes for a cup of Egyptian grain'
he tried to settle new economical models
etc etc,

as about that of who did who,
search better, read some ancient that your foundamentals forbit

Yetos
11-11-15, 20:56
That's a new thing :grin:

Release your clear sided minds. People should rise up for every singel act like that. Their origin is out of topic, Islam, Hindusim or anything else.

The point is not stopping people calling kufar, the point is remove the all negative meanings of it. It should be just a name of non-muslim, nothing more.
Being Kufar or not shouldn't see as a symbol of good people.




That is a gentle/noble think

I hope you keep it, when the mood around you forced by priests/imams says different,

Rethel
11-11-15, 21:01
First I am Polytheist,
but I never told you who are my Gods,

You are a "original Macedonian" whatever that means.
So, you are probably greek pagan, and if not, your gods
were ones of roman conglomerat.

Whoever they are - they are dead, and their
cult was vanished 1700-1500 years ago.
So... they are worthless...


Second the case of Nero and Caligulla,

It was not only Nero and Caligula, because they not live so long as persecutions have place.

Since Seleukides to Diokletian... some 500-600 years of killing jews and christians.


Search better the story of Nero,
He was not the monster that christians claim,
Nero liberated millions of slaves,
Nero was destroying Rome's rotten elite class,
that is why an alliance among his enemies and christians was set, to trap him,

Search better what he done, and his laws,
do not fall in the christian propaganda,

Nero was not the man christians describe,
Historians say that wherever he went he liberated the slaves,
he changed the laws of slavery, and he tried for a better political system, giving land to slaves, and trying to stop the 'buy votes for a cup of Egyptian grain'
he tried to settle new economical models
etc etc,

as about that of who did who,
search better, read some ancient that your foundamentals forbit

You wanted Le Brok conspiracy theory - you have one.

ΠΑΝΑΞ
11-11-15, 22:38
Interesting debate but I think that could be part of another thread, probably as
"A religious syncretism and para-doxological defiance of the faithful of this world" or
as something more platonic, "The beloved of God, fortunes peoples and hated ones, the vain of the world."


... but I might be upheld, its potential very strong involvement of Mythology and Operational Dogmatism- Religion, and this is also the aim of a common code for the Truth, a pact need, a common basis .
Consistent with my visa for the shortfall of our temporary life, my dear brothers, I must say that I have respect for all religions carry the interests of the peoples - neighbors such as people self-designate.


Whoever really loves history, really appreciates the religions and the social, cultural and economic contribution to our bloodshowered development.


@Rethel
... the Greeks never entertained in arenas but in the theater and the Hippodromes...
Yetos is devil himself, his grand dad wear his -καυσία or his -κατσούλα and carries a -κοπίδα, a big single chop knife. (multi-purprose ''farming'' tool) , himself usually consume a large amount of grilled pork with cold Retsina and a baklava after, he is fan of philosopher Parmenides and he dont like Olympiakos.



Lets "save" the Kurds now.

LeBrok
12-11-15, 05:15
If any of moderators felt like your post crossed the line and needed to be deleted, you would receive demerit points for the content too. Most likely your post would go to soft delete. It would be invisible to public, but still accessible to mods.

LeBrok
12-11-15, 05:18
You wanted Le Brok conspiracy theory - you have one.
We know Yetos for years. He introduced us to all sorts of unusual hypothesis.

Yetos
12-11-15, 05:51
You are a "original Macedonian" whatever that means.
So, you are probably greek pagan, and if not, your gods
were ones of roman conglomerat.

Whoever they are - they are dead, and their
cult was vanished 1700-1500 years ago.
So... they are worthless...



It was not only Nero and Caligula, because they not live so long as persecutions have place.

Since Seleukides to Diokletian... some 500-600 years of killing jews and christians.



You wanted Le Brok conspiracy theory - you have one.


you are wrong,

search better,
my Gods are alive and rulling the world,
only you can not see them, blinded by monotheists,
but you still pray to them, hope for their help, and wait their right desicions,

what a pitty,
your God can see all, but his justice is blind, and carries a διστομος ρομφαια (double cut sword/knife), search why?

I suggest you read Parmenides, and enter the Stoics,
and Hesiodos to see the 'Gods' of human nature through times/phase of human society advance,

and my culture is not dead,
you live in it today, only you do not see or realize it,

Every day you chalenge my Gods, but you can not recognize them,
search why,

at least search why christians drink wine in their ultimate mystery, as a symbol of christ blood (not Bakchos!!!) although it was cursed by Noah, and the house of Ρηχαβιτων (Rehab) in your old testament.
it will be a good start to enter the hidden Gods world,

funny isn't it?

the grape field of God, as told in your new testament

http://www.diakonima.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/10877738_903995406318993_958166918_n.jpg

but not he

http://api.ning.com/files/fjndKPwt3WTuCz45PaEwE27u-4k4OtaT4np3TQbEvK5NlJvWacOIulJEzTK7fPI6AB0KHUMEPKN fp--Afnh6WEtht7Gg8yHU/MpRSkLJzNfY.jpg?width=282&height=284



or you prefer this

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZMYo7hHsLpKpM2JX7zlSoBIH1kWchX vurcm9XImvzWdJnqO1F5Q



instead of this

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoI4RvFo8sNgAUR3kqX7RW8Aa6NGhRm za0Z-JP9uoIUD2YO7LE



Oh no, what a blind I am,

she holds the only one who ressurect from the dead, but a man
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsuAMyubGWi-UKCkS3IJWP7YYpDXDLtqN41WTKmW5LgJuF6FyUBQ


but she bear the only/first woman who ressurect from the dead

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9T60TOK0_ZGA2LgpzO9xA6CbzyMk3I Mog-WUVS75a72vP7V9a

oh do not forget,
Jesus said to John, 'here is your mother' etc
but Pershephone introduce Neoptolemus to Demeter (divine mother)

come on man,

at least she is alive, in the world you live, as long as you live

http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/6493894_f520.jpg

as Parmenides said, until death comes, and you still expect for her
only in apocalypse you call her 'twincut blade of God'

oh yes the Seleykids,
Didn't you did the same to the american originals?
Didn't you force them to christianity?
NO CHRISTIANS GAVE ENLIGHTMENT TO NATURE AMERICANS,
THEY DID NOT FORCE THEM TO CHANGE RELIGION, NEITHER EXTERMINATED THEM,
and you still talk about Seleukids, and just forgot what followed after the discovery of America,
in the name of your monotheistic GOD

no need to mention the wars that reach 30 and more years in Europe, in the name of Christ

oups sorry
I just made your religion ridiculous, a mosaic of stollen gods, unified by monotheists, which serves a certain class

cause in old polytheistic world, we had taxes from state, and donation to Gods,
oh did that change by new religion monotheists? why?

I hope I gave you an answer on how alive is my religion,
and how hoax is yours, as proven 1500 years after in the discovery of America
even today, 2000 years after,
but mine is still alive, and active,
I still chalenge the Deities, do you?

oh it is 08:00 o clock here morning time,
have a nice day,
time to regreat your sins, and come to old religion to liberate you,
monotheists only want to enslave you, through the 'law'
1 do not ..
2 do not ...



PS
Lebrok if you want you can move that, away from thread
simply could not resist the challenge of christians,

dodona
12-11-15, 08:33
Radical Islam is 1/3 of the islamic world, fetvas are above any law, either state, either international, in fact, only 1/3 of germans voted for Hitler in 1933.

Rethel
12-11-15, 10:14
If any of moderators felt like your post crossed the line and needed to be deleted, you would receive demerit points for the content too. Most likely your post would go to soft delete. It would be invisible to public, but still accessible to mods.

Ok, as you say so... so I answer you later

Rethel
12-11-15, 10:39
you are wrong,

search better,
my Gods are alive and rulling the world,
only you can not see them, blinded by monotheists,
but you still pray to them, hope for their help, and wait their right desicions,

Reptilians? :petrified:


your God can see all, but his justice is blind, and carries a διστομος ρομφαια (double cut sword/knife), search why?

Why? To kill all pagans and unbilivers of course! :laughing:


and my culture is not dead,

Only, becasue christians did not do the same with you as Muslims are doing.
Ottomans did not preserve your pagan culture, but westerners did...


at least search why christians drink wine in their ultimate mystery, as a symbol of christ blood (not Bakchos!!!) although it was cursed by Noah, and the house of Ρηχαβιτων (Rehab) in your old testament.

Yes, we drink wine as a sumbol of Christ blood - and what?
I have no idea where you read about cursing the wine by Noah or Rechabites...
Noah was drunk, and Rechabites (non-Israelites) simply did not drink it...


the grape field of God, as told in your new testament

It is even better: And the winepress are trodden without the city, and
there came out blood from the winepress, even unto the bridles of the
horses, as far as a thousand and six hundred furlongs. :laughing:


but not he

http://api.ning.com/files/fjndKPwt3WTuCz45PaEwE27u-4k4OtaT4np3TQbEvK5NlJvWacOIulJEzTK7fPI6AB0KHUMEPKN fp--Afnh6WEtht7Gg8yHU/MpRSkLJzNfY.jpg?width=282&height=284

Drunkard, junkie, madman who was eatan by his mother and after that was born from the leg of Zeus? :petrified:


or you prefer this


A perfect man, Son of God, some one who die for me?
Of course...


instead of this

Insted of guy who is only a statue which
couldn't defend his cult and himself? Of course :)


oh yes the Seleykids,
Didn't you did the same to the american originals?
Didn't you force them to christianity?
NO CHRISTIANS GAVE ENLIGHTMENT TO NATURE AMERICANS,
THEY DID NOT FORCE THEM TO CHANGE RELIGION, NEITHER EXTERMINATED THEM,

You was claiming, that christians did some things,
so I rememberd you, what your brothers did.
Dont repeat yourself...


nd you still talk about Seleukids, and just forgot what followed after the discovery of America,
in the name of your monotheistic GODI guess, that you would like allow Indians to sacriface people for their imaginary gods...


I hope I gave you an answer on how alive is my religion,


It is still dead... as was last 1500 years...
Even Julian Apostate couldnt help you...


even today, 2000 years after,
but mine is still alive, and active,

Have you a conntact with demons?:petrified:


time to regreat your sins, and come to old religion to liberate you,

So, in your pagan belives you have a concept of sin even... wow...
So, your gods probably are sinners... they did so many awfull things...


monotheists only want to enslave you, through the 'law'

But you can do, whatever you wish...


Lebrok if you want you can move that, away from thread
simply could not resist the challenge of christians,

This challange is so weak... :sad-2:

Fire Haired14
12-11-15, 10:56
There is no tolerance for intolerant people on Eupedia. I'm predicting it is only a matter of time till your next ban.

There's no reason to ban him. He hasn't been intolerant at all.

Rethel
12-11-15, 10:58
According to new title of the thread, I must say, that only one possible way to live with muslims in peace is maximum
1% of muslims among christian society. As it was in Poland for example for many centuries... Every another propotion
leads to conflict because Muslims imitate Mohammed. When he had maximum 100-150 followers during first 12 years of
his so called prophethood, then he was very nice guy. But when he IMMIGRATED and had some big minority he very quick
during two-three years gain majority, and after that no Jew was living in Jathrib any longer. Jews were abot 1/2 of the
population. Three tribes: first go on his own to rescue their life, second was bannishd and after that enslaved in their new
residance, third one had less luck, because 800-900 men were beheded, children were converted to islam, and women were
enslaved as sex-slaves. After that period, when this guy was dying (luckily, was poisoned by jewish [sic!] women [sic!] so,
according to muslim belives he should burn in hell now... :) ) all Arabia was muslimized, and when the people wanted after
his death go away from Islam, because new religion was boring them, and Mohammed, who was threatening them was dead,
then Abu-Bakr killed thousands of them... and since then noone in Arabia was never ever even thinking about refusing Islam.
Every one knows, what happedned later with naieghbouring countries... they all became a muslim countries...

So, it is not possible to live in peace with muslims. Becasue they have such a theology, and if you
die during jihad you have not only granted paradise and 70 virgins (or grapes) plus some divine boys,
but you can get with you 70 cousins...

Rethel
12-11-15, 11:04
There's no reason to ban him. He hasn't been intolerant at all.

Don't worry, he is working very hard to make from me an intolerant person...
If he cannot do this, he's giving me infractions titled: dissrupting/provocating
behavior... It is so silly... at least he can banned me as a racist, because for
him everything is racist - and everyone who dare do not share his wonderfull
views about Brave New World...

LeBrok
12-11-15, 16:57
There's no reason to ban him. He hasn't been intolerant at all.
I'm just hoping he can grow up like you did.

Rethel
12-11-15, 20:01
Do you wish they were dead or didn't exist at all?

I would prefer them to convert to christianity. Then will be no problem with them :)


You mean you don't want "them" to teach your kids tolerance, inclusiveness and compassion.

Do you wish muslims teach your children that Islam is the only true view on the world?

Tolerance form islamic point of view...
Inclusivness with Ummah...
Compassion of Allah who is most compationate?


Right, for you every Muslim is jihadist.

Not every muslim. But every jihadist is a muslim.
Btw, why you love so much muslims, but hate christians?


Did Jesus said "There should be only Christians in my neighborhood?

Jesus said: go, and make all nations my followers.
Did not have said: allow muslims to convert my followers.
Did not have said: make higher the probability that your neighbour will be killed.


Give an example of banning Christian beliefs in Europe.

You are joking, right? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif


So they won't be mental handicaps like you.

And you are always saying that you are for freedom. So why you want to take this freedom from others? Are you a hypocyte?


ude, are you afraid of a knowledge? Are your kids stupid enough not to figure out what is good for them, what works or not? How will they exercise the free will without any temptation?

Why you want use totalitarian method's to promote your views - especially to people who do not wish that? This is your freedom?


People like you burn books with different way of thinking.

But all this books were and are availbe until this day...


Guess what, Muslim fundamentalists like ISIS don't let kids to learn about evolution and atheism either.

But you want do the same thing. You do not allow learn about God and creation in school.
They forced to learn Islam, and you want forced everyone to lern evolution and atheism.


As I noticed before, you are exactly made of the same clay.

So you are from the same clay...


I have no problem with my kids learning everything,

Would you be so glad if they will be learn about pedophile, bestiality aso? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/petrified.gif


Christianity included, and making their own choices in life.

Learnig christianity and learning about christianity - it is two different things...
btw, this are only words, because your behavior is telling something else.


What did they do good for Polish people?

Nothing, but they were motivated by your philosophy.
They were primarly onest according to what they belived...


They were intolerant racist psychopaths.

Exactly as present day nihilists are...


Are you for real?!!! I think you have a big psychological problem if you see a cannibal and rapist in every not "true" Christian.

Do they not want live? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/petrified.gif
This was your argument.


Of course, because inclusively all people can go to hell black, white, rich, poor, straight and homosexuals. Hell is for everyone, same as heaven.

http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif


He was the one who broke the law, was hated by priests and was killed for this.

He never broke the law.
At least he was broking tradition.
This is not the same.

As I see from this couple of sentences about Jesus, you do not know the Bible.
You maybe know some version of sectarian theology - but it is not the same.


Please, cite Christs saying that homosexuality is a sin.

This is a stupid question, because Jesus in recordings is not talking about everything.
But he said that he came to fullfill the law - in the law, which he was fullfiling was death
penalty for homosexual behavior, and his apostles were preaching against this behavior.


On other hand, he said that slaves should obey masters. So maybe all "true" Christians should have slaves?

Of course, from the biblical point of view there is nothing wrong with having a slave.
The only exclusion is this, that hebrew slave in hebrew owner should be a slave only
6 years (BUT if he wanted he can be a slave whole his life) and that kidnaping a free
citizen is a crime with death penalty. And a slave must be good treated, and if he
escape - he cannot be return to his owner. Slavery this is not sadism as you imagine.


How do you know that your faith is the only true one?

Because I read the Bible.
My faith is not this what you mean.
I belive only that God exists (or rather I am cetain of that).
I do not belive in nothing else, in the sens of "faith".
Everything else is a knowledge and deduction.


Would you be a Christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia?

Probably not, but if I would be true beliver and onest with myself, I would go
to the Bible - as Koran teaches - and I would see, that this is a very different
text. Then I would refuse Islam, as I did twice in my life with others religions.


You would be a devoted conservative Sunni Muslim, probably fighting for ISIS now. Knowing your character, killing and raping the unfaithful.

If someone is beliving in Islam, and Islam teaches such a thing, then he probably would.
But, on my opinion, beliving in Islam is impossible, becasue this religion is anulating itself
very well. They belive in many so absurde things... and Koran is so empty book, that it's
very hard for me to understand, why they belive in such twisted religion.


One is for certain, a tribal instinct is very strong in you.

No, I only respect tradition (BUT NOT RELIGIOUS ONE) aspecially if she's based on rules.
For example, if I would had hg different than R1a, I would be very interesting in customs,
and language of goup of my ancestors... I even wanted have some exotic Y, because this
would be very exiting for me, but I am very normal vistulian indoeuropean... But 10 years
ago I was ready for everything! http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif Especially for some asiatic of swarthy Y hg. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif
So, in terms of secular tribe tradition (with very strong revision of it) - yea, I agree.


You believe in your tribe's traditions, ways and religion, just because you were born there, and not by choice or free will.

And you are again wrong, mostly, because you do not read what I am writing, or your assumptions again are stronger than you.
Maybe you was beliving in such religion, but I was/am not. I was born a Catholic, (and I was beliving catholic), my family is nearly
atheistic, but grandma was very devote catholic. I refused both worldviews. After that I was for some time JW, and after that, I
am now an individual christian, and this is really wonderfull expirience.

So I can say, that I refused three times my "tribes" traditions... You're again wrong (as usuall... :) ).
Or even four, becasue I was also very interested in slavic and germanic mythologies when I was young,
becasue they (especially the first) were seem to be very tribal and very very traditional for me... :)


Like learning a language from your parents, you also learned traditions and religion. It didn't require logic and analytical thinking. It required pure tribal instinct and memory of learning what they taught you, nothing more. You didn't make a choice, just went on pure instinct and tradition.

You know me soooo weeelll... again you missed. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif


This tribal instinct also tells you that you and your tribe is the best, knows better ways, is special, unique, and the rest of the world must be stupid, because if the rest were smart like you, they would chose the only true ways and your true religion.

If this is wrong, why are you following your instincts, claiming, that point of view of your atheistic tribe is the best, and that
everyone (including especially me) is so stupid, because he does not belive in that what you belive? If everyone would be so
smart like you, and would be listening in everything allknowing scientists and "dawkinses" and homosexual activists he would
know, that you are the samrt one, and everybody else are stupid... so why are you following this way of your nihilistic tribe?


So tell us, how do you figure that your religion is the true one?

By deduction, historical and material proofs, and by comparing recordings of different
religions/philosophies... Especially I had no problem with religion since I saw stupidity
of atheism and evolusion :) About evolution I was interested also... until this day I like
and enjoy very much films and programs about cavemen :) This is a real good fantasy! :)


I have no problem with my kids learning everything, Christianity included, and making their own choices in life.

If you have no problem, then do you have morality?
If they can learn about everything this means, that
you have no principles, values, and you do not have
higher standarts. You yourself do not know what is
good, and what is bad, what is worth to die for, and
what is need to be fight against...

But muslims do, and they will win with nihilists.

Example?
France.
They are the most secular state in Western world.
Effect?
They take to themselves 5 mln muslims, who are hating... France.
And 50.000 secular and exparachristian per year are accepting Islam.
Why?
Because nihilism is not good enough for them, christianism is destroyed
by secular state (which makes brainwash to children) and of course by
christian denominations as well, which do not belive in Bible any more.

So people are searching something worth to live.
And imams in the mosqes have a very good offer
for them - stupid, poor, twisted, paganized and
savage version of abrahamic faith.

So France must be, and will be, a muslim state in near future. The radical one.
This is the end of your ways... very clever...

Their cleverness - coming from your nihilistic loving equaliting philosophy,
lead them not only to destroing themselves, but also to such a ridiculious
ideas, like banning the genetic reaserch... this is your freedom, and your
open minded world... or like this coproducer (I dont remember his name) of
"Avereges - time of ultron", (one of the most hard fighting man-feminist in
sweden) who was attaced and destroing, and his carier was nearly to end,
becasue people from your religion didn't like some one sentence in this film...
This is your madness secular religion, based on using the brain and equality...


You on the other hand would ban evolution and atheism

But why you must teach them?
For teaching biology iit is not nessecery to teach this things.
You must teach this, because this is a philosophy a religion,
which you want to promote. You do not want to be a neutral
(which secular should mean) but you want your ideology to
be spreading in totalitarian manner.


and many more subjects you consider stupid or sinful,

I see, you are talking about yourself http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif


so pure eyes of your children would never glaze upon this forbidden knowledge.

No, I would teach them about evolution IN HOME, but not as a only true view on the world. They
must know, that something like that exists, and what it is, becasue if they would not know, they
would be a very easy victim for people of your kind. Btw, christianity always was open to every
theory, even if was fighting againt that theory. This is the reason, why you have a heliocentric
theory, not geocentric, why is knowing greek, roman, germanic, slavic or aztec mithology...
This is also the reason why you have science, genetic, and especially archeology and statues
of ancient gods... If in the place of chriostianity would be Islam - everything would be destroy,
and you would be living in totalitarian islamic state walking in every friday to the mosque, and
living like people in VII century in the desert.. maybe with some progress to XIII century...

And you yourself would be promoting the idea to destroy pyramids - they were trying to destroy
them, but they couldn't because had to primitive technology - now they can - they can, becasue
of christian civilization which developed atom... And they will do this, but people of your kind will
of course, by yours ignorace, help them...

True belivers of Yahweh never were stupid or ignorant.
Stupidity and ingnorance are sins. Maybe even the greatest one.

Yetos
12-11-15, 21:18
Reptilians? :petrified:



Why? To kill all pagans and unbilivers of course! :laughing:



Only, becasue christians did not do the same with you as Muslims are doing.
Ottomans did not preserve your pagan culture, but westerners did...



Yes, we drink wine as a sumbol of Christ blood - and what?
I have no idea where you read about cursing the wine by Noah or Rechabites...
Noah was drunk, and Rechabites (non-Israelites) simply did not drink it...



It is even better: And the winepress are trodden without the city, and
there came out blood from the winepress, even unto the bridles of the
horses, as far as a thousand and six hundred furlongs. :laughing:



Drunkard, junkie, madman who was eatan by his mother and after that was born from the leg of Zeus? :petrified:




A perfect man, Son of God, some one who die for me?
Of course...



Insted of guy who is only a statue which
couldn't defend his cult and himself? Of course :)



You was claiming, that christians did some things,
so I rememberd you, what your brothers did.
Dont repeat yourself...

I guess, that you would like allow Indians to sacriface people for their imaginary gods...



It is still dead... as was last 1500 years...
Even Julian Apostate couldnt help you...



Have you a conntact with demons?:petrified:



So, in your pagan belives you have a concept of sin even... wow...
So, your gods probably are sinners... they did so many awfull things...



But you can do, whatever you wish...



This challange is so weak... :sad-2:


there is hope for you,
Sorry,

you have just decide to live with the side of rulling class,

or you just take the 10% of your innocent followers,

you drink blood and eat flesh, but no you are not a carnivore !!!
you crusify your lord every day, but no he ressurects, but not pershephone,
if he comes back you will crusify him again,
but no you are 'clean'
you made wars and kill in his name, but no he is the god of 'love'
A WORD UNKNOWN TO CHRISTIANS

THANK GODS,
I WILL NOT TAKE A PIECE OF THAT HOAX,


I HOPE NOTHING
I AM NOT AFRAID SOMETHING
I AM FREE


PS
my religion used to have olympic games, not arenas?
what is the sport of your religion?
NOT WITCHUNTING IN SALEM Mass?
NOT HOLY INQUISITION?
NOT SCYTHOPOLIS
NOT 'kidlove'


PS2

in your bible say that if someone is sick, cover him with oil, and pray, and God will him,
WHY YOU GO TO ASCLEPIUS SONS/ACOLYTE?FOLLOWERS TO FIND CURE?

in your Bible say that if you have any difference speak with God, your apostoloi, etc etc,
WHY YOU GO TO ZEUS SONS/ACOLYTE/FOLLOWERS at the temple of Zeus=Justice


in your bible say that your religion is simple, so simple that spead by fishermen, and peasants,
WHY YOU CREATED HIGH THEOLOGICAL SCHOOLS LIKE THE TEMPLES OF ARTEMIS/ATHENA etc

Why you go to universities? which are the ultimate search of old bibliothekes, which were storage of knowledge of what smaller temples produced?
My Gods are Ηφαιστος And Ποσειδων, and you worship them every day, and every day you ask help from their acolytes, called mechanics or mathematicians etc etc

YOU ARE A BLIND CHRISTIAN, OR YOU WANT TO BLIND US ALL IN ORDER OF PROFIT
THAT DEMON WAS CALLED MAMMON ΜΑΜΜΩΝΑΣ in your bible,

THANK GODS,
I AM NOT AFRAID HIM AND HIS PUNISHEMENT,
I DO NOT HOPE FOR ETERNAL LIFE
SO I AM A FREE MAN,


ps 3
is it true that the priest of your god are pedophiliacs, play the donations at gun industries and stock exchange, got syphilis when conquer America, etc etc?
WHOW YOUR GOD KNOWS WELL TO CHOOSE HIS PRIESTS,
I WONDER HOW ΥΠΟΚΡΙΤΕΣ (hypocrites) THEY CAN CLEAN ME?

Next time pray and wait for your god to bring Justice,
Do not go to the court of ZEUS, THE ONLY TRUE AND LIVING DEITY.

Rethel
12-11-15, 21:52
Forgive Yetos, but it is a one big nonsense
without any leading thought or cohesion...
I dont even know, what do you want to tell me.



THANK GODS,
I AM NOT AFRAID HIM AND HIS PUNISHEMENT,
I DO NOT HOPE FOR ETERNAL LIFE
SO I AM A FREE MAN,

So, you are sooooooooo dead... :smile:


Do not go to the court of ZEUS, THE ONLY TRUE AND LIVING DEITY.

And if he is living, where is he?
On the mount Olymp? :useless:

Or if he's living, why the whole
world do not belive in him, but
his cult is dead since 1500 y?

Christianity 100 years ago conquerd actualy the whole globe.
And go even to another worlds... like Moon... Mars... Tytan...
Why Olympians didn't do that, but instead, they allowed their
belivers to be convert to christianity, and their statues to be
destroyed... or at least being an exponate in museum... :thinking:

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 22:14
It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.
Totally agree. No one has the right to do that. According to the Islamic religious doctrine: if one believes that there is only one God and Mohamed is his prophet, that person is a Muslim.

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 22:18
I do not decide, neither you, but Mohammed and at least islamic scholars...
You can of course claim that you are a muslim and secular. I saw even a
homosexual activist who was claiming that he is a muslim... But it is not
a matter of personal choice... but of following the rules.

If I create today society of Q-men, and I make a rule, that Q-men can be only
lefthanded and wearing red shirts, and everyone, who is righthanded and wearing
shirts in different colour is not a Qman - then who will decide, who can be a Qman???
Someone who want to wear blue shirt? No. I will decide, because I am the one making
the rules deciding who can be a Q-man and who can be not.

So this is not a matter of personal describing who can be a muslim, but matter of rules.

Btw, if there will be such a thing like secular normal muslim, then on the West were
be no need for muslims gettos, for banning the burka, there will be not problem with
burning cars and blowing buses, and people woudnt be wearing themselves as Arabs.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02907/Jordan-Horner_2907951b.jpg
When you don't have knowledge on the matter, better don't talk.

If I would follow your logic, there are no more Christians in this world

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 22:28
you know the history, probably even better than me
but you give the answer yourself, correct me if i'm wrong
indeed the example we always get of tolerant and openminded Muslims in history were the Morish Omayades in Spain, but they forget that they were replaced by the very strict Almohads
weren't the Almohads themselves replaced by the rather fundamentalistic Christian reconquistadores?
and you state yourself that the - contrary to his predecessors - very strict Aurangzeb left the country in chaos till the British came
i don't want to relive this all again in Europe
the fact that ISIS is able to recruit so easily so many of its warriors in Europe by some preachers with a radical vocabulary of hatred doesn't make me optimistic at all
and the fact that many of them are 'converts' and adventurers doesn't make it better, it's the vocabulary that does it

and yes, most non-Muslims don't know about the century-long history of divide and hatred between Sunni and Shia
but as I told, Muslims are embarrased by this and don't talk about it, neither do they want us to talk about it
it seems to me they themselves cannot explain this if Islam is realy 'the religion of love and peace'
Yes: according to the Shia imams, the Sunni people are not Muslims , indeed they are the true enemies if Islam, and vice versa . [emoji23] .
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/d3817b2716dd4655b900fe0cda857fe5.jpg
The person on the photo is an Albanian cleric of Muslim- Sufi religion. The statue is of Scanderbeg. The Albanian lord of Albania. If you know his story, you know what I mean. Scanderbeg is the national hero of Albanians. The majority of Albanians are Muslims.

Rethel
12-11-15, 22:34
When you don't have knowledge on the matter, better don't talk.

If I would follow your logic, there are no more Christians in this world

This is a muslim logic, and I didnt develope her.

Christians... there are 2.4 bln christians... nominal, but they are still christians.
Mostly bad christians of course, but we do not have the same logic as you have.
But practicly they are not christians of course, and if they do not change their
behavior they maybe will be in the worst sitiuation than pagans. About muslims
do not complain to me - complain to your teachings and teachers...

Islam by your teachings is eternal, perfect and complete.
You cannot change something what is unchangeable and
you can't make better something what is already perfect
and cant add to or take from something what is complete.

Everyone who claims that he is a "light" muslim is lying or is
an apostate - there is no third option. You cannot change
this, that Mohammed was a necrophile and pedophile...
This is your "prophet" - and he was a messenger or not.
There is no other option...

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 22:37
I think Bicicleur, that this is generaly a false assumption at all.

Islam is at first a religion of Mohammed who claimed to have the true message.
And what it menas love and peace must be filter by his definitions of this words and of goal of Islam.

Love and peace is only for Muslims. Shias are not muslims for sunnis, and sunnis are not muslims for shias.
They are even worse than jews and christians, because they are apostates. That's all.

Islam is from the beginnig going to take the world. But by the world they mostly mean Christendom.
And from the beginning they are doing this by the sword. So, why should they be a religion of peace?
And btw, why at all religion MUST be a religion of peace? Why religion cannot be a religion of war? If
someone expected that, then he will be certainly decived by muslims, who have in their theology so
called taqiyya which allow any muslim to decive unbelivers for spreding Islam.
First- Islam is much more a recently religion than is Christianity. The difference is more than 600 years.
2- Don't forget that during middle age, the three branches of Christianity didn't recognised each other. The first who conquered Constantinople, were the Catholics.
3- The problem of middle east and north Africa, is not Islam. Indeed it's the ignorance and not tolerance against the other, who is not as the same as themselves.

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 22:38
Boreas you are from Turkey,

A country that started as Shia with Seljouks, become Suni, populated by taqqiya, expelled Bektasi muslims,
and finally today is trebling among Kemalic state, and Sultan-Erdogan state,

I guess you know the difference among Con/polis muslims, to far East/South Turkey radical Islam,

just answer your shelf,
for you, you are maybe a true muslim,
for radical Islamists like Daesh, are you a true Muslim?
and can you live, study, work with a Kufar/.Cafir?

just answer your shelf,
when your imams, say women must not drive,
how will you react?
will you allow your wife to drive?
and if you would, how will you feel, if someone throw a stone to her, cause she drives?
[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] .

Rethel
12-11-15, 22:39
The person on the photo is an Albanian cleric of Muslim- Sufi religion. The statue is of Scanderbeg. The Albanian lord of Albania. If you know his story, you know what I mean. Scanderbeg is the national hero of Albanians. The majority of Albanians are Muslims.

Scanderbeg wasn't a christian?

Btw - this imam is an apostate.
Every nationalist is an apostate.
There is only one Ummah, and
in Islam, there is no place for
more than one nation and one
state - Arabs and Caliphate.
Everyone who claims different
is an apostate and should be kill.
Like Kurdi and Syrian nationalists
are killing by salafits. This is Islam.

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 22:45
Good point. Both world wars brought only disaster, distraction, death and suffering to all Europeans, and nobody truly won and benefited of it. Well, except Americans, because European firms were in ruins and without capital, American companies could easily expend worldwide (and in Europe) catching biggest share of the market. Europeans had to kill each other in tens of millions to finely notice that nobody can rally win, got smarter and try peaceful way for a change. With great benefits as we can see these days.
This killing, arm wrestling of various groups, is going on today in Near East. Many might be killed and massacred till they learn, as well as Europeans, that this is not the right way to go about. In mean time this creates a brain drain, because most talented and with money go to Europe to find a safe place to live. This might in turn slow down economic growth and cause lack of professionals in the region in the future.
That's why Churchill at the end of WWII said to the American president: we should spread the democracy throughout the world, because doing so, we prevent other wars. A great man he was.

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 22:54
.
One must ask the question of why 80% of muslim who are sunni want to kill off 20% shia muslim ..................or is it the sunni arabs against the shia Persian
!!!!!!!
Indeed you are wrong. That's not true.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/2c0934c3090f58957e1cd4b507ad1cf7.jpg
This is a picture after the massacre at Charlie hebo. It's from France. The leaders of the four main religions of Albania.

Rethel
12-11-15, 22:55
First- Islam is much more a recently religion than is Christianity. The difference is more than 600 years.

This is a nonsensical argument.
There is no such universal thing
like "timeline of religions age".
Btw, where have you 300
years of persecutions, like
we? Do you forget about that?


2- Don't forget that during middle age, the three branches of Christianity didn't recognised each other. The first who conquered Constantinople, were the Catholics.

It was for greater good - rescue Konstantinopole from you.
And what? Does it mean, that you could take whole Middle
East, northern Africa and Balcans and muslimized it by force? :petrified:
You could convert christians in your antychrist religion, because
some group of Frenchmen and Italians take Konstantinopole in 1204?

What a nonsense!


3- The problem of middle east and north Africa, is not Islam. Indeed it's the ignorance and not tolerance against the other, who is not as the same as themselves.

No, not at all... Islam is wonderfull... all muslims in Africa are equal, rich, and
tolerant... especially for christians, who are behending in african coastlines...
They even wnat european christians to come to them and teach them christianity,
and are very gladly when Europeans are going in boats to this paradise on earth... :useless:
Nothing is happening like that... and never will... why? Because of Islam...

Do you know how many people was in Egypt when Omar came? about 15 mln.
Do you know how many people was in Egypt when Napoleon came 1200 later? 1-3 mln.
Really, Islam is not a problem at all...

Do you know why people from Middle East and Africa are coming to Europe?
Because of Islam... they want live there, where is no Islam at all...
Why... because Islam is sooooo good...

And do you know, why Kosovo, Albania, Bosia and Bulgaria
are the most poor countires where no one want to live, and
where crimes have so high level? Becasue there is the most
higher percentage of muslims...

And do you know, why in the Middle East is so horrible enviroment?
Because of Islam... This philosophy is degradating and devastating
everything what can... and in the West muslims are presenting the
same savage behavior as in their original homelands...

Why? Because of Islam...

Piro Ilir
12-11-15, 23:00
It was very simplified - but you even do not understand that.



That should decide shias and sunnis.
They both have different hadiths, so - probably this ones, who will kill the others at all?.
But becuse of many bizzare (more than sinnis) teachings of shias, I suspeced that sunnis are right theologicaly.
But in the case of succession - who knows, mabe shias are right? No one can know exactly now.



???



Secular Jews who do not even belive in Tora - certainly are.



So I see you do not understand Christianity.
We do not have so many rules as muslims and jews for every aspect of life.
We have no need to wearing some cloths - but it not means, that cultural customs are not different in different countries.
Even monogamy is a cultural thing based on Roman Law - not a biblical necessery thing.

But in Islam everything is regulating by holy and halfholy scriptures.
Even which hand you must use to which thing, how to sleep, how to eat, how to wear...
So do not compare Christianity to Islam, becuase there is a huge abyss between them.

Btw, we, by principle, are free - you by principle are slaves.
And this is pattern in every kind of life and teachings.
We can do whatever we want to - exept some necessery borbidden things.
Muslims cannot do nothing exept things which are allow by Koran or Sunna.

Our first (and second) comandment is to love God the Father, and love neighbours.
Yours is to be obidient to Allah-slave-owner, hate the unbelivers and be not so bad for another muslim.



So you are an apostate, becuase you do not want to be a muslim by name.
This is not personal choice. You are not a definer of Islam, but Mohammed is.
Read his life - and you'll see, how should behave a true muslim.
Mohammed is a perfect muslim. Not you.

He killed 800 jews in Jathrib, and two another tribes exiled.
He had sex with dead body in grave.
He had sex with nine year old girl.
He killed every non beliver in Arabia.
He is the example - and he was not secular at all.

You cannot be a muslim without Mohammed and Koran.
You cannot define what you want Islam to be, or not.
I think you are not a Christian. This is totally clear [emoji23].

Rethel
12-11-15, 23:06
Indeed you are wrong. That's not true.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/2c0934c3090f58957e1cd4b507ad1cf7.jpg
This is a picture after the massacre at Charlie hebo. It's from France. The leaders of the four main religions of Albania.

1. And what?
2. This two christian priests shoulldnt be there at all - bacause of muslims, and becasue of Hebdo.
3. Muslims can be a liers and behave like that if it is good for islam. SO WHAT THAT THEY WERE THERE?

It does not change the muslims belives... it does not change that you will be
killing Jews on Saturnday, and christians on Sunday when Mahdi comes... It
does not change that Muslims killed over 60 million christians through 1400 years...
It does not change the thing, that your perfect man was killing jews and christians,
and that your exemplary orthodoxical caliphs were killing and persecuting christians.

SO WHAT?

Rethel
12-11-15, 23:10
I think you are not a Christian. This is totally clear [emoji23].

I am not a christian because what?

Becasue Mohammed was a false prophet?
Becasue I wrote that he killed 800 jews in Jathrib, and two another tribes exiled?
That he had sex with dead body in grave?
That he had sex with nine year old girl?
That he killed every non beliver in Arabia during his life?
That he was not secular at all?

That makes me not a christian? :lmao:

bicicleur
13-11-15, 00:21
Yes: according to the Shia imams, the Sunni people are not Muslims , indeed they are the true enemies if Islam, and vice versa . [emoji23] .
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/d3817b2716dd4655b900fe0cda857fe5.jpg
The person on the photo is an Albanian cleric of Muslim- Sufi religion. The statue is of Scanderbeg. The Albanian lord of Albania. If you know his story, you know what I mean. Scanderbeg is the national hero of Albanians. The majority of Albanians are Muslims.

I've seen Dervish dance. I've been in Konya afterwards and saw it again. I wanted to see it again.
I've been told about Sufi, I don't know much about them.
But if what they told is true, I respect them because they respect others.
But how many Sufi are there among Muslims? They are a minority no?
For other Muslims I'm just a kafer. So this is mutual, I don't respect them.

So tell me about Sufi. Are there Sufi in Belgium? I don't think so.
Are all Albanian Muslims Sufi?

Fire Haired14
13-11-15, 00:53
Do you wish they were dead or didn't exist at all?

This response makes no sense. He was saying he isn't afraid, then you say "Do you they were dead?". The question is, are you trying to make him look like a hater?


You mean you don't want "them" to teach your kids tolerance, inclusiveness and compassion.

Do you see animal loving as inmoral and disgusting? I assume you do. Well, we Christians see homosexuality the same way. We're not intolerant or bigots or homophobic for believing it is inmoral. Everyone has boundaries, and homosexuality is one of our boundires. I get so annoyed when iberals say "Animal loving is a totally differnt subject". It isn't a totally differnt subject, an average European or AMerican 60 years ago would say gay marriage is crazy just as today they say animal loving is crazy.

100 years from now someone might call you a bigot for not being okay with animal loving. You accept homosexuality because it's apart of the left-wing agenda that you associate with and now it is political correct, mainstream, the intelligent way to think, etc.

Most gays don't even want to get married. I don't get why there was such a big push for gay marriage. I support it because, I think people should have a choice to do what they want to do. Although I see it as inmoral.

Anyways, how is not wanting kids to learn about gay sex tolerant? What percent of people are gay anyways? Is it really worth teaching. I'm sure you'd be uncomfortable if your kid's school taught about human on animal sex.



Are you for real?!!! I think you have a big psychological problem if you see a cannibal and rapist in every not "true" Christian.

He never said that. You're twisting his words.



Please, cite Christs saying that homosexuality is a sin. On other hand, he said that slaves should obey masters. So maybe all "true" Christians should have slaves?

The value is respect authority. Morality isn't "You can't turn off the fan when your friend is sweating" it is "Don't be selfish". It isn't about specific situations, it's about values. The bible mentions several times that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus never said animal loving is a sin, so what. Homosexuality wasn't a big issue. For most people, it was something crazy people did that you only heard rumors about. Now people have twisted into something it never was.


Like learning a language from your parents, you also learned traditions and religion. It didn't require logic and analytical thinking. It required pure tribal instinct and memory of learning what they taught you, nothing more. You didn't make a choice, just went on pure instinct and tradition.

Westerns have a stupid idea that humans can be totally objective. This is completely false. Most of how we behave, talk, think, etc. we learned from others. Everyday we change who we are according to the people that surround us. Much of what we decide to copy does have to do with choice, but sometimes it doesn't. The way you think, the way you think "objectively" is shaped by your copying of other people usually at a young age. There's nothing wrong with this and we can't change it.

The closest thing to a completely objective and unbiased human, are crazy children who grew up in the wilderness. This is because they weren't influenced by other humans. But as you know this is unhealthy and the kids usually can't ever operate in human society or think well. Learning from our elders and copying the believes and culture of other humans is natural and good.

Aaron1981
13-11-15, 01:57
Yes you can. Come to Canada to see this yourself. It exists, you can touch it, you don't need to believe it or not. So easy.
The key worlds is tolerance and inclusiveness.

Stop being afraid of others, others different than you. They are people with feelings, good people. They don't want to kill you or harm you. They just want to live like people, like you. Stop being afraid and paranoid. Follow Jesus's preaching about love, forgiveness, mercy, tolerance and compassion. Drop your axe and follow Jesus, dude.
And yes, he was a politically correct man.


Check the definition, otherwise you don't understand what people are talking about.

You're a Trudeau voter aren't you? I guess as long as you're a social Conservative Muslim it's okay, but social Conservative Christians are bad guys right?

LeBrok
13-11-15, 03:09
You're a Trudeau voter aren't you? I guess as long as you're a social Conservative Muslim it's okay, but social Conservative Christians are bad guys right?
Nope, I voted Harper, just for damage control. Justin is not ready, lol. I don't mind conservatives as long as they are tolerant and inclusive, and most of them are, same as liberals. I find green and leftists really out there away from reality. Well, same as religious conservatives hiding away from the bad sinful world hating everything different than the world of their youth.

navi32
13-11-15, 04:30
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
[...]


one of the names is Isis.
Thanks for Islam in Europe.
carying name of Isis goddess the mother of Horus, false god


I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.



babylon the greatthe mother of prostitutesand of the abominations of the earth.

navi32
13-11-15, 04:32
Revelation 17:

Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
[...]


one of the names is Isis.
carying name of Isis goddess the mother of Horus, false god
Thanks for Islam in Europe.

I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.



babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.

Sile
13-11-15, 06:04
The arabic sunni moslems cannot live with Christians or shia moslems or othodox or jews etc etc

Yetos
13-11-15, 06:07
Forgive Yetos, but it is a one big nonsense
without any leading thought or cohesion...
I dont even know, what do you want to tell me.



So, you are sooooooooo dead... :smile:



And if he is living, where is he?
On the mount Olymp? :useless:

Or if he's living, why the whole
world do not belive in him, but
his cult is dead since 1500 y?

Christianity 100 years ago conquerd actualy the whole globe.
And go even to another worlds... like Moon... Mars... Tytan...
Why Olympians didn't do that, but instead, they allowed their
belivers to be convert to christianity, and their statues to be
destroyed... or at least being an exponate in museum... :thinking:


you are just a blind again,

you see my deities every day, but you do not want to admit it,
and where is your god?
humans conquer the sky, did you see christ and his divine city, where is room for every believer?
Nahh, I guess his city as described in apocalypse, and as he state at ευαγγελια is at another galaxy,

where the city that John described? with diamonds, and gold and coal etc etc?

where is the God the Jeremiah and Iezekiel described? wheels inside wheels?
why he left his believers?

Open your eyes, and you will see my deities beside you, every day,

AND FREE DOES NOT MEAN DEAD, FREE MEANS ALIVE,
WITH NO CHAINS IN MY NECK,
you are just a Zombie of a hoax,

I live every day with my EIMARMENE and NEMESIS, YOU?
YOU HOPE ETERNAL LIFE, YOU AFRAID HIS PUNISHMENT, A CHAIN IN THE NECK, LIFE OF AN OX?


oh do not forget,
IT WAS AFTER CRUSADES, THAT CHRISTIANITY ENTER IN ANOTHER PHASE, why?
IT WAS AFTER THE ENLIGHMENT THAT HUMANITY RETURN TO PLANET EARTH, why?
WE RESTORE OUR TEMPLES, ONLY WE NAME THEM UNIVERSISTIES,
WE RESTORE OUR LAWS, ONLY WE NAME THEM SCIENCE,
HUMANITY WENT TO MOON, DUE TO US, PAGANS, NOT DUE TO YOU CHRISTIANS,
BECAUSE YOUR GOD SAY
'MULTIPLY AND HABBIT EARTH, AND CONGUER EARTH'
he does not say conquer moon, neither Saturn (is his divine city/paradise there?)
you have been bad boys, you just went away from his words,
you went to moon, although HE the Almighty ONE GOD, told you not to do,
Wait for his punishment????

Hypateia was stoned by the students of Pope of Alexandreia Clement, and cut to pieces and christians parade her parts all over Alexandreia
cause she was a woman scientist that teach,
ACCORDING YOUR GOD, NO WOMAN SHOULD TEACH (Paul)
WHY YOU DID NOT DID THE SAME TO maria CURIE?????
cause either christianity is a Hoax (thibk how much is Islam)
EITHER YOU ARE AFRAID US, US THE OLD RELIGION FOLLOWERS,

2000 years now, and your hoax, can not eliminate truth,

WE ARE ALIVE,
YOU ARE ZOMBIES, THAT CARRY THE WILL OF A CASTA/RULLING CLASS, CALLED PRIESTS/IMAMS etc
Afraid to dare, afraid the challenge of life, waiting for his Οβολος (reward)
you fight their wars, and pay your 'taxes' to them, oups sorry, donations, oups sorry sacrifices,
BUT THEY ARE CLEVER, THEY DO NOT WANT FRUITS BIRDS LAMPS ANYMORE, THEY WANT GOLD!!!!!
THEY WANT GOLD WITH THE HEAD OF CEASAR, oups sorry today they want papper, with bridges or pyramid

i wonder why?
John 7:13
John 19:38
John 20:19
but went to arenas to be eaten by lions!!!!

Yetos
13-11-15, 06:09
Indeed you are wrong. That's not true.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/2c0934c3090f58957e1cd4b507ad1cf7.jpg
This is a picture after the massacre at Charlie hebo. It's from France. The leaders of the four main religions of Albania.


MONOTHEISM HYPOCRITES,
THEY HATE EACH OTHER, BUT NO THEY PRAY TOGETHER, to the same God!!!!!

LeBrok
13-11-15, 07:19
My religion is true.
No, my religion is true, you infidel!
No, no, my religion is true, you heretic!!
No, no, no, my religion is the true one, you idiots !!!

LeBrok
13-11-15, 07:21
Revelation 17:

Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
[...]


one of the names is Isis.
carying name of Isis goddess the mother of Horus, false god
Thanks for Islam in Europe.

I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.



babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.


Please don't cite people on drugs or mentally infirmed.

LeBrok
13-11-15, 07:24
I am not a christian because what?

Becasue Mohammed was a false prophet?
Becasue I wrote that he killed 800 jews in Jathrib, and two another tribes exiled?
That he had sex with dead body in grave?
That he had sex with nine year old girl?
That he killed every non beliver in Arabia during his life?
That he was not secular at all?

That makes me not a christian? :lmao:
You are not following Juses' preaching. Jesus was tolerant and full of compassion, you are not. I don't think he will great you in heaven.

Fire Haired14
13-11-15, 07:39
You are not following Juses' preaching. Jesus was tolerant and full of compassion, you are not. I don't think he will great you in heaven.

You don't understand what grants one into heaven.

LeBrok
13-11-15, 09:02
You don't understand what grants one into heaven.I'm glad god told you. You must be the chosen one.

Boreas
13-11-15, 09:23
The arabic sunni moslems cannot live with Christians or shia moslems or othodox or jews etc etc

Yes, I saw Christians tolerance to Jews.


I've seen Dervish dance. I've been in Konya afterwards and saw it again. I wanted to see it again.
I've been told about Sufi, I don't know much about them.
But if what they told is true, I respect them because they respect others.
But how many Sufi are there among Muslims? They are a minority no?
For other Muslims I'm just a kafer. So this is mutual, I don't respect them.

So tell me about Sufi. Are there Sufi in Belgium? I don't think so.
Are all Albanian Muslims Sufi?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Islam_branches_and_schools.svg/2000px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.png

You saw the Mawlawi (which are sunni), not entire Sufi world. In Albania, another Sufi group Bektashi which is Shia, is more common.

Sile
13-11-15, 10:22
Yes, I saw Christians tolerance to Jews.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Islam_branches_and_schools.svg/2000px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.png

You saw the Mawlawi (which are sunni), not entire Sufi world. In Albania, another Sufi group Bektashi which is Shia, is more common.

You need to follow me...............pray to God and IGNORE ALL RELIGIONS ( you don't need to list to those baboons ) . Its the same GOD that all mankind prayed to ....................unless you think there is more than ONE god , then you have a problem.

navi32
13-11-15, 11:01
Please don't cite people on drugs or mentally infirmed.

oh, come on!! cant you see that is real, and
words written in the distant past - today is come out:)

besides ....why are you so intolerant for only one group - christians? :useless:

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:02
But in your logic, you can redefine Islam. Congratulations.



I was asking what you have in mind because your example was nonsensical and unrealistic.



But term Jews have double meaning. Btw, jewishness is based on religion.
You can't be a Jew if your ancestors wasn't jews by faith. Term jew is an
equivalent to a muslim or christian. Who is an ethnic Jew - no one really
knows... probably such a person has to have primal genealogy do Jacob,
but this is impossible. In such a case, only less than 14% (maybe 10%?
maybe even much less) could be cout as ethnic Jew or Israelite...
In Isarel are endless debates who the real jew is...



What it has to do with theology and Holy Scriptures?
And you want me maybe to tell, that ISIS does not
exist because you are all living in XV century a.h.?:rolleyes2:



I do not want to decide in what are you beliveng.
You can even belive in some UFO-man or holy cow.
This is your bussines. But if you are talking about
Islam, who has his rules and regulations, holy books,
and theology, then you must keep this, and making
claims by the book. Because you did not invent Islam,
and you are not an author of the book.



No, but if you are telling me, that you are a m-u-s-l-i-m,
then you must belive like Mohammed tells you to belive,
exactly, as christian must belive as Moses, prophets and
especially Jesus and apostles are telling in the scripture.



In my Quran it is in the page 727 in XCVI chapter :innocent:

By the way, how Mohammed could read, if he was illiterate?:innocent:



There are couple biblical thingns in Islam - for example killing idolates or sodomites.

But Islam, as a religion is a suecide doctrine, because he is depending on the Bible.
Even Koran says that if you do not understand somethnig - go to the christians, go
to the Bible and look into the holy scriptures which they have... This green book is
claiming, that is fully agreeable with the Bible - so, everyone can compare this two
books - what I of course did and I am still doing - and make some conclusions.
In VII century on the arabian desert it was impossible, because most of the people
were pagans, and these who were christians didn't have a Bible in their posession.
Jews, who probably had some scriptures, and were publicly saying that this what
is preaching Mohammed is a nonsense - mix of pagan, gnostic and talmudic miths,
he simply killed or enslaved. And it was the end of discussion about truth in Islam.



Please, give me the chapter, verse, and abrogetion rule to this fragment.



:lmao:

1. Since when muslims are a... race? [emoji14]etrified:

2. I didnt see a eurpeans who are burning cars in Ankara, or any other place...

3. I didn't see christians who are blowing a buses in Riyyad...

4. The most 'rasist' states in the world are muslim states... so ples, dont speak a nonsese about europeans...

5. In Suadi Arabia if some Christian has a Bible or want to go to Mekka he is simply killing... so dont be a hipokryte...

6. In islamic states, christians and Jews are... dhimmis... so do not be a hipokryte...

7. In Islam, whites are devils, and blacks are second sort of people...

So, what are you talking about?
You are wrong again.
Jews are an ethnicity
Hebrews are a religion
One may bea Jew, but not a Hebrew. I had a friend Jew. He was born in a USA and he was a Christian protestant. He wasn't a Hebrew. At least this is what he declared

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:08
Maybe you simply do not know ISLAM. You know maybe muslims, but Islam?
Probably not. Or you know very well and you are diciving us. Why? Because
you belive in such a doctrine... so the probablity is always... There are also
christians, who do not know what Christianity is... so...

If you really do not know what taqiyya is... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya




No, this is not my theory, but if you are asking, I can aswer, that christians can be both
secular and faithfull, becasue Christianity based on the principle: what belongs to Caesar,
to Caesar, what belongs to God - to God. Similar rule was in ancient Israel.

Islam is different. It is more political doctrine, than simply faith.
Islam began as a state, and was spreading by the state...

Most christians through all history were secular - but not unreligious.

So being secular by definition makes you not an apostate in Christianity.
You must be promoting or doing some unbiblical things to be an apostate.

In Islam it is different. You cannot make an accusation based on the same
thing, becasue Islam and Christianity it is not the same - there are totally
different rules and bilieves. If would be the same, then they would not be
two different religions.

Btw, one of the accusations against the West from yours side is
this, that West (Europe) is secular... So why are you so amazed?
First- Islam is not a uniform doctrine. There are different doctrines of Islam. No one has the right to say what is the true Islam, especially someone who is not a Muslim.

Secular Muslim exists today in Albania and Kosova, so according to your logic, they are not Muslims.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:11
so you are a Turko-Albanian,
but you use avatar of a catholic priest,
why?
Do you think that you can deceive us?
When I ever mentioned Turkey here. According to physical appearance, the Greeks seems to be more Turkish than Albanians. Look at the mirror first, who indeed is a Turk from Asia minor [emoji57]

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:15
in your post,
you wrote something,
and I said that you might be glad to see that happens,
what is your problem?
look at your country,
which is the 4rth most Jihadist country in the world.
That's pretty false.

When did you see that I was glad or either I said that Europe would be an Islamic state? Don't change my points. I said that intelligence agencies said that on the future, according to the demographic growth the population of Europe would change. This would happen many years from now.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:20
no I am not an Orthodox christian,
I am Polytheist, Pagan, old religion,

I agree with you, nobody can decide for you what you will believe,
BUT CAN YOU DECIDE FOR ME IF I DO NOT SHARE YOUR RELIGION, THAT I AM A KUFAR, AND SINCE THAT NOT WORTHY, AND MUST DIE?
IF YOU DECIDE RADICAL ISLAM, WILL YOU DESTROY THE STATUES OF MY GODS?

that is the difference,
and I am the first here that said that Christianity did that first, millenium before,

But since you live in a country, that is trebling, with one foot in the 'west' and one foot in 'east'
it is rather you that have to decide, and answer to your shelf


modern christianity, has nothing to do with ex-christinity,
time for Islam to accept the different,
to stop consider me, my daughters, etc as Kufar,

PS
you still did not answer me,
If an imam gives a fetva, that no woman should drive,
would you forbid your wife to do so?
There are three types of Muslims
1-the liberals
2-the conservatives
3- the extremists
The same is for Christianity and other doctrines.
Passing the time Islam would more liberal. That's a normal process.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:24
You comment is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike

All terrorist actions are from sunni moslems, I have yet to see any shia terrorism lately ..............if you know of one recently..link it, I will check it out.

As per your ISIS sunni people who state they can create their own version of the Quran as per sunni doctrine, they have changed the anti-slavery doctirne of the Quran and state that by raping Yazidi or any other non sunni women by 10 different sunni men, will automatically make this women a sunni moslem ............this is the way these ISIS sunni state think, an ISIS , backed monetarily by the Saudis and other arabian states ............by backing them , the saudis have basically agreed they support the "changing" of the quran to suit sunni needs ......you call this a religion!
According to you Saudi Arabia has the monopoly of Sunni Muslim doctrine. There are at least four subgroups of Sunni Muslims.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:34
So lets see, how it is in
the Balkans and among
the Albanians in Kosowo...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OogwK5fRHI
So, according to you the majority of Alban Muslims who declares that they are Muslims, they are lying. Someone paying them?

The only ones who loves those extremists Muslims are indeed the extremists Christians. They love each other

Rethel
13-11-15, 12:37
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
[...]


one of the names is Isis.
Thanks for Islam in Europe.
carying name of Isis goddess the mother of Horus, false god


I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.



babylon the greatthe mother of prostitutesand of the abominations of the earth.



Hi Navi! :good_job:

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:44
yes democracy is weak
it can only survive if the majority of the people accept secularism
you keep telling Balkan Muslims are secular
but I'm not so sure about the Muslims that are entering Europe now
and I'm not so sure about Muslims that entered Europe the last few decades either

looking at Turkey, it is not certain where it will go to
so those Muslims entering Europe now won't help democracy in Europe
they will be a big burden and harmful to both economy and society
some of them even dream of overthrowing democracy in Europe and turn it in a Muslim state in the future
'the Quran is more important than democracy'
Quran is not against democracy.

These people from middle east just don't understand the democracy. I think one day they will change. I think if the West Europe allows them to stay, they should not be EU citizens officially. The citizens should understand what democracy really is.

I don't think that the elections in Turkey were held in a right way.

Rethel
13-11-15, 12:49
My religion is true.
No, my religion is true, you infidel!
No, no, my religion is true, you heretic!!
No, no, no, my religion is the true one, you idiots !!!

- I am really tolerant and I love everyone, becasue every one is equal...
- No, you're intolerent, becasue you said something about women, that they are smaller than men, what semms to me BAD, you nazi shovinist swine!
- No, no, my version of tolerance is only true, becasue I love people who are drunkards and I tolerate bestiality, you ignorant intolerant conservative pre-dawkins bastards!
- No, no, no, but i am really tolerant, becasue I am the most tolerant person you bigotts, becasue I want banned bibles and crucifixes and enlarge Islam... you not following correctly Dawkins and modern feminism, you idiots... And I am half-man half-woman, and I have sex with everyone every day and I want to teach this in preschools; you must do as I do, otherwise, you are very backward and intolerant as it is only possible, stupid old fashion evolutionists from the 50s...

So, maybe look first on your own backyard LeBrok...

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:50
Sile, ISIS couldn't change it, because muslims was owners of slaves since the beginning.
Mohammed had slaves, and his favorite one was blond girl from Egypt named Mariya, who
bore him even a son Ibrahim. In Koran you have many verses which accepted slavery, and
you can also erased your sins by freeing a slave... In Middleages slavery it was muslims
domain - they captured or byed from the Jews about one million Europeans. One north
african sultan captured 300.000 white girls from Spain. If you consider this that population
was very small, you have the picture. The slave market in Mekka was closed about. 1965.
What has to do this with Islam! Arabs are generally retarded culturally, that's all. They had a different way of life , that's all.

The only difference real difference between Islam and Christianity is the" holy trinity". Muslims don't believe in Jesus Christ. In Islam, the Jesus, is a prophet, otherwise is for Christians. They believe that Jesus is the son of God.

Rethel
13-11-15, 12:54
Please don't cite people on drugs or mentally infirmed.

Bravo! And this is your tolerance and respect for other people... wonderfull...

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 12:54
You were joking, but you give a very good example how the whites think about.
This is (I suspect) why christianity so well fited to Europe, and why we were
more succesfull than muslims. This thinking comes from the very ancient times
and you can find it in the Bible of course too. This is why we fitted to this texts
and jews (who in majority had "islamic"/middleeastern mentality) didn't.

The result of this, is for example Talmud - they simply must created a new "Bible"
because the old one, was mostly not agreeable with their mentality and culture.

This is mine secular theory [emoji2] Theistic reasons are in this ofcourse too...



There should be a ban of Islam at all... like christianity is banned in Turkey...



And again you have muslim perspective. For you, everything what people do, is according to religion.



Shia - sunni it was a political problem from the beginning.
Your "faithfull" caliphs were simply killing each other because
every one wanted to rule... it was the same as is in Syria now.



No, there isn't.



So you should rise against Islam!
Burn the Mecca, burn the Koran! :laughing:




But cannot you simply called us christians or peoples?
Taqiya... taqiya...



When we are looking at this hordes which are coming to Europe, and how they behave
or at this people who lived here from some time in gettos - this is really very bad word,
because it insult ancient Germanic peoples... they should be called rather troglodites or
something like that, than barbarians... or maybe pagans... busurmans... saracens...



Yes of course. And this is the third reason, why
this whole neopagan movment is a BIG nonsens.
This is rather carnaval, when they can eat and
wear old fashion clothes than a religion...

For example slavic pagans do not burn widows... :sad-2:



And such an imam is crying laudly about that in Mekka to be heard... :lmao:
No, indeed you are again wrong. The Christians were not more successful than the Muslims. Instead, Europeans were more successful than the Asiatic people. Why? Simply because the European states separated the religion from the state.

Rethel
13-11-15, 12:55
You are not following Juses' preaching. Jesus was tolerant and full of compassion, you are not. I don't think he will great you in heaven.

I really dont know what Bible did you read, but certainly, not the normal.

Rethel
13-11-15, 13:01
Secular Muslim exists today in Albania and Kosova, so according to your logic, they are not Muslims.

Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OogwK5fRHI

Btw... muslims are 1.2 bln. Most of them do not live in Albania and Kosovo...

Rethel
13-11-15, 13:08
Quran is not against democracy.

Here you are right. BUT - you can chose only a ruler. You cannot vote abut truths in the Koran.
For example - you cannot vote about swine, alcohol, Mohammed a.s.o. And almost everywhere,
where democracy is implemented, people are choosing the radical parties... This countries were
"liberal" when they were under colonial goverment or dictatorship. Democracy leads to caliphate.
And this is only right chose which this people can do according to Islam, and they are doing this.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 13:10
you are wrong,

search better,
my Gods are alive and rulling the world,
only you can not see them, blinded by monotheists,
but you still pray to them, hope for their help, and wait their right desicions,

what a pitty,
your God can see all, but his justice is blind, and carries a διστομος ρομφαια (double cut sword/knife), search why?

I suggest you read Parmenides, and enter the Stoics,
and Hesiodos to see the 'Gods' of human nature through times/phase of human society advance,

and my culture is not dead,
you live in it today, only you do not see or realize it,

Every day you chalenge my Gods, but you can not recognize them,
search why,

at least search why christians drink wine in their ultimate mystery, as a symbol of christ blood (not Bakchos!!!) although it was cursed by Noah, and the house of Ρηχαβιτων (Rehab) in your old testament.
it will be a good start to enter the hidden Gods world,

funny isn't it?

the grape field of God, as told in your new testament

http://www.diakonima.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/10877738_903995406318993_958166918_n.jpg

but not he

http://api.ning.com/files/fjndKPwt3WTuCz45PaEwE27u-4k4OtaT4np3TQbEvK5NlJvWacOIulJEzTK7fPI6AB0KHUMEPKN fp--Afnh6WEtht7Gg8yHU/MpRSkLJzNfY.jpg?width=282&height=284



or you prefer this

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZMYo7hHsLpKpM2JX7zlSoBIH1kWchX vurcm9XImvzWdJnqO1F5Q



instead of this

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoI4RvFo8sNgAUR3kqX7RW8Aa6NGhRm za0Z-JP9uoIUD2YO7LE



Oh no, what a blind I am,

she holds the only one who ressurect from the dead, but a man
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsuAMyubGWi-UKCkS3IJWP7YYpDXDLtqN41WTKmW5LgJuF6FyUBQ


but she bear the only/first woman who ressurect from the dead

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9T60TOK0_ZGA2LgpzO9xA6CbzyMk3I Mog-WUVS75a72vP7V9a

oh do not forget,
Jesus said to John, 'here is your mother' etc
but Pershephone introduce Neoptolemus to Demeter (divine mother)

come on man,

at least she is alive, in the world you live, as long as you live

http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/6493894_f520.jpg

as Parmenides said, until death comes, and you still expect for her
only in apocalypse you call her 'twincut blade of God'

oh yes the Seleykids,
Didn't you did the same to the american originals?
Didn't you force them to christianity?
NO CHRISTIANS GAVE ENLIGHTMENT TO NATURE AMERICANS,
THEY DID NOT FORCE THEM TO CHANGE RELIGION, NEITHER EXTERMINATED THEM,
and you still talk about Seleukids, and just forgot what followed after the discovery of America,
in the name of your monotheistic GOD

no need to mention the wars that reach 30 and more years in Europe, in the name of Christ

oups sorry
I just made your religion ridiculous, a mosaic of stollen gods, unified by monotheists, which serves a certain class

cause in old polytheistic world, we had taxes from state, and donation to Gods,
oh did that change by new religion monotheists? why?

I hope I gave you an answer on how alive is my religion,
and how hoax is yours, as proven 1500 years after in the discovery of America
even today, 2000 years after,
but mine is still alive, and active,
I still chalenge the Deities, do you?

oh it is 08:00 o clock here morning time,
have a nice day,
time to regreat your sins, and come to old religion to liberate you,
monotheists only want to enslave you, through the 'law'
1 do not ..
2 do not ...



PS
Lebrok if you want you can move that, away from thread
simply could not resist the challenge of christians,
Who is the king of ancient gods? Zeus.

The Abraham's God, is the same as Zeus. There is not a huge difference between, the God of Christians, Muslims. Hebrews and ancient people. Zeus is the God. There is only one God. The rest of so called ancient deities ,were just some ancient saints ,who passing the time become deities or gods.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 13:16
According to new title of the thread, I must say, that only one possible way to live with muslims in peace is maximum
1% of muslims among christian society. As it was in Poland for example for many centuries... Every another propotion
leads to conflict because Muslims imitate Mohammed. When he had maximum 100-150 followers during first 12 years of
his so called prophethood, then he was very nice guy. But when he IMMIGRATED and had some big minority he very quick
during two-three years gain majority, and after that no Jew was living in Jathrib any longer. Jews were abot 1/2 of the
population. Three tribes: first go on his own to rescue their life, second was bannishd and after that enslaved in their new
residance, third one had less luck, because 800-900 men were beheded, children were converted to islam, and women were
enslaved as sex-slaves. After that period, when this guy was dying (luckily, was poisoned by jewish [sic!] women [sic!] so,
according to muslim belives he should burn in hell now... :) ) all Arabia was muslimized, and when the people wanted after
his death go away from Islam, because new religion was boring them, and Mohammed, who was threatening them was dead,
then Abu-Bakr killed thousands of them... and since then noone in Arabia was never ever even thinking about refusing Islam.
Every one knows, what happedned later with naieghbouring countries... they all became a muslim countries...

So, it is not possible to live in peace with muslims. Becasue they have such a theology, and if you
die during jihad you have not only granted paradise and 70 virgins (or grapes) plus some divine boys,
but you can get with you 70 cousins...
Yes, and the extremists Christians killed Giordano Bruno. Actually they burned him alive. It doesn't mean that modern Christians are the same .

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 13:18
Don't worry, he is working very hard to make from me an intolerant person...
If he cannot do this, he's giving me infractions titled: dissrupting/provocating
behavior... It is so silly... at least he can banned me as a racist, because for
him everything is racist - and everyone who dare do not share his wonderfull
views about Brave New World...
Indeed you are intolerant, because you don't like Muslims as your neighbors. If one don't do anything against you, and you still are against him, this mean you are intolerant.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 13:20
I would prefer them to convert to christianity. Then will be no problem with them :)



Do you wish muslims teach your children that Islam is the only true view on the world?

Tolerance form islamic point of view...
Inclusivness with Ummah...
Compassion of Allah who is most compationate?



Not every muslim. But every jihadist is a muslim.
Btw, why you love so much muslims, but hate christians?



Jesus said: go, and make all nations my followers.
Did not have said: allow muslims to convert my followers.
Did not have said: make higher the probability that your neighbour will be killed.



You are joking, right? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif



And you are always saying that you are for freedom. So why you want to take this freedom from others? Are you a hypocyte?



Why you want use totalitarian method's to promote your views - especially to people who do not wish that? This is your freedom?



But all this books were and are availbe until this day...



But you want do the same thing. You do not allow learn about God and creation in school.
They forced to learn Islam, and you want forced everyone to lern evolution and atheism.



So you are from the same clay...



Would you be so glad if they will be learn about pedophile, bestiality aso? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/petrified.gif



Learnig christianity and learning about christianity - it is two different things...
btw, this are only words, because your behavior is telling something else.



Nothing, but they were motivated by your philosophy.
They were primarly onest according to what they belived...



Exactly as present day nihilists are...



Do they not want live? http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/petrified.gif
This was your argument.



http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif



He never broke the law.
At least he was broking tradition.
This is not the same.

As I see from this couple of sentences about Jesus, you do not know the Bible.
You maybe know some version of sectarian theology - but it is not the same.



This is a stupid question, because Jesus in recordings is not talking about everything.
But he said that he came to fullfill the law - in the law, which he was fullfiling was death
penalty for homosexual behavior, and his apostles were preaching against this behavior.



Of course, from the biblical point of view there is nothing wrong with having a slave.
The only exclusion is this, that hebrew slave in hebrew owner should be a slave only
6 years (BUT if he wanted he can be a slave whole his life) and that kidnaping a free
citizen is a crime with death penalty. And a slave must be good treated, and if he
escape - he cannot be return to his owner. Slavery this is not sadism as you imagine.



Because I read the Bible.
My faith is not this what you mean.
I belive only that God exists (or rather I am cetain of that).
I do not belive in nothing else, in the sens of "faith".
Everything else is a knowledge and deduction.



Probably not, but if I would be true beliver and onest with myself, I would go
to the Bible - as Koran teaches - and I would see, that this is a very different
text. Then I would refuse Islam, as I did twice in my life with others religions.



If someone is beliving in Islam, and Islam teaches such a thing, then he probably would.
But, on my opinion, beliving in Islam is impossible, becasue this religion is anulating itself
very well. They belive in many so absurde things... and Koran is so empty book, that it's
very hard for me to understand, why they belive in such twisted religion.



No, I only respect tradition (BUT NOT RELIGIOUS ONE) aspecially if she's based on rules.
For example, if I would had hg different than R1a, I would be very interesting in customs,
and language of goup of my ancestors... I even wanted have some exotic Y, because this
would be very exiting for me, but I am very normal vistulian indoeuropean... But 10 years
ago I was ready for everything! http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif Especially for some asiatic of swarthy Y hg. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif
So, in terms of secular tribe tradition (with very strong revision of it) - yea, I agree.



And you are again wrong, mostly, because you do not read what I am writing, or your assumptions again are stronger than you.
Maybe you was beliving in such religion, but I was/am not. I was born a Catholic, (and I was beliving catholic), my family is nearly
atheistic, but grandma was very devote catholic. I refused both worldviews. After that I was for some time JW, and after that, I
am now an individual christian, and this is really wonderfull expirience.

So I can say, that I refused three times my "tribes" traditions... You're again wrong (as usuall... :) ).
Or even four, becasue I was also very interested in slavic and germanic mythologies when I was young,
becasue they (especially the first) were seem to be very tribal and very very traditional for me... :)



You know me soooo weeelll... again you missed. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif



If this is wrong, why are you following your instincts, claiming, that point of view of your atheistic tribe is the best, and that
everyone (including especially me) is so stupid, because he does not belive in that what you belive? If everyone would be so
smart like you, and would be listening in everything allknowing scientists and "dawkinses" and homosexual activists he would
know, that you are the samrt one, and everybody else are stupid... so why are you following this way of your nihilistic tribe?



By deduction, historical and material proofs, and by comparing recordings of different
religions/philosophies... Especially I had no problem with religion since I saw stupidity
of atheism and evolusion :) About evolution I was interested also... until this day I like
and enjoy very much films and programs about cavemen :) This is a real good fantasy! :)



If you have no problem, then do you have morality?
If they can learn about everything this means, that
you have no principles, values, and you do not have
higher standarts. You yourself do not know what is
good, and what is bad, what is worth to die for, and
what is need to be fight against...

But muslims do, and they will win with nihilists.

Example?
France.
They are the most secular state in Western world.
Effect?
They take to themselves 5 mln muslims, who are hating... France.
And 50.000 secular and exparachristian per year are accepting Islam.
Why?
Because nihilism is not good enough for them, christianism is destroyed
by secular state (which makes brainwash to children) and of course by
christian denominations as well, which do not belive in Bible any more.

So people are searching something worth to live.
And imams in the mosqes have a very good offer
for them - stupid, poor, twisted, paganized and
savage version of abrahamic faith.

So France must be, and will be, a muslim state in near future. The radical one.
This is the end of your ways... very clever...

Their cleverness - coming from your nihilistic loving equaliting philosophy,
lead them not only to destroing themselves, but also to such a ridiculious
ideas, like banning the genetic reaserch... this is your freedom, and your
open minded world... or like this coproducer (I dont remember his name) of
"Avereges - time of ultron", (one of the most hard fighting man-feminist in
sweden) who was attaced and destroing, and his carier was nearly to end,
becasue people from your religion didn't like some one sentence in this film...
This is your madness secular religion, based on using the brain and equality...



But why you must teach them?
For teaching biology iit is not nessecery to teach this things.
You must teach this, because this is a philosophy a religion,
which you want to promote. You do not want to be a neutral
(which secular should mean) but you want your ideology to
be spreading in totalitarian manner.



I see, you are talking about yourself http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/smile.gif



No, I would teach them about evolution IN HOME, but not as a only true view on the world. They
must know, that something like that exists, and what it is, becasue if they would not know, they
would be a very easy victim for people of your kind. Btw, christianity always was open to every
theory, even if was fighting againt that theory. This is the reason, why you have a heliocentric
theory, not geocentric, why is knowing greek, roman, germanic, slavic or aztec mithology...
This is also the reason why you have science, genetic, and especially archeology and statues
of ancient gods... If in the place of chriostianity would be Islam - everything would be destroy,
and you would be living in totalitarian islamic state walking in every friday to the mosque, and
living like people in VII century in the desert.. maybe with some progress to XIII century...

And you yourself would be promoting the idea to destroy pyramids - they were trying to destroy
them, but they couldn't because had to primitive technology - now they can - they can, becasue
of christian civilization which developed atom... And they will do this, but people of your kind will
of course, by yours ignorace, help them...

True belivers of Yahweh never were stupid or ignorant.
Stupidity and ingnorance are sins. Maybe even the greatest one.
Indeed Le Broke hate intolerant people. Has nothing to do with religion

Rethel
13-11-15, 13:21
What has to do this with Islam!


What has to do this with Islam!

Slavery is in Koran.
Mohammed is the perfect example.
Truthfull califs are an example.
This is islam.
So... it has everything to do with Islam.
Because Islam is everything also...

Why do you think Isis is showing everything what they do?
To show people, that they are real true muslims, and that
they are doing everything according to Koran and Sunna.
And this is the reason, why people are going there gladly
form the whole world...


Arabs are generally retarded culturally, that's all. They had a different way of life , that's all.

So go and learn Islam, if you said so... or maybe
you are misleading according to your doctrine?


The only difference real difference between Islam and Christianity is the" holy trinity". Muslims don't believe in Jesus Christ. In Islam, the Jesus, is a prophet, otherwise is for Christians. They believe that Jesus is the son of God.

This is not the only dfference, but most important.
And this is the reason, why Islam should be banned in all countries.
Becasue this is false and lying religion with false prophet who was necrofile and pedophile.

p.s. not whole Christianity belives in Trinity.
If Mohammed would have slightly idea about
Bible and christians, he would know this...
But he was biblical and religious ignorant
so muslims are living in jahiliya until this day.

Rethel
13-11-15, 13:27
Yes, and the extremists Christians killed Giordano Bruno. Actually they burned him alive. It doesn't mean that modern Christians are the same .

You would probably do the same... and your perfect prophet...

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 13:30
This is a muslim logic, and I didnt develope her.

Christians... there are 2.4 bln christians... nominal, but they are still christians.
Mostly bad christians of course, but we do not have the same logic as you have.
But practicly they are not christians of course, and if they do not change their
behavior they maybe will be in the worst sitiuation than pagans. About muslims
do not complain to me - complain to your teachings and teachers...

Islam by your teachings is eternal, perfect and complete.
You cannot change something what is unchangeable and
you can't make better something what is already perfect
and cant add to or take from something what is complete.

Everyone who claims that he is a "light" muslim is lying or is
an apostate - there is no third option. You cannot change
this, that Mohammed was a necrophile and pedophile...
This is your "prophet" - and he was a messenger or not.
There is no other option...
Who you think that you are, deciding who is Muslim and who is not, and who is Christian and who is not? No one has that monopoly. Even the pope himself. I don't care what saying some priests or imams throughout the world about the religion. I don't need for any cleric to believe in God. I don't need any permission from any imam or priest to be a Muslim or a Christian. I pray God where I want to. I am not a slave of any corrupted priest or imam.

Rethel
13-11-15, 13:34
Indeed you are intolerant, because you don't like Muslims as your neighbors. If one don't do anything against you, and you still are against him, this mean you are intolerant.

Muslims are not against me?:petrified:
So, whay they are killing my brothers in Christ?
Why they are blowing buses on the West?
Why I can't go to Mekka or Medina?
Why cant I have Bible or crucifix in most of islamic countries?
Why I cant preach the Bible and christianity in every muslim country?
Why my christian brothers are enslaving, improsoned, and killed by your people?
Why every year 100.000 christians are slaughter becuase of their faith mostly in muslim countries?
Why muslims killed 60.000.000 christians?
Why everywhere christians have a dhimmi status?
Why christian women are raped by muslims, only becasue they are christians?
Why in european countiers everywhere where muslims are arrived the rating of killing
and raping is growing very rapidly, even if muslims are small percentage of all society?

So, stop lying because this is awefull from your side!

Most muslims hate christians and jews - and it doesn't matter what you said.

You rather think, why are you beliving in necrophile and pedophile - and why he is your example...

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 13:45
Scanderbeg wasn't a christian?

Btw - this imam is an apostate.
Every nationalist is an apostate.
There is only one Ummah, and
in Islam, there is no place for
more than one nation and one
state - Arabs and Caliphate.
Everyone who claims different
is an apostate and should be kill.
Like Kurdi and Syrian nationalists
are killing by salafits. This is Islam.
No. Indeed that's what you want Islam to be. That's just your wish.

Scanderbeg was send from the God to unified the Albanian nation. He is more than the Albanian national hero. He was send from the God exclusively for the Albanians. You liked or not the Albanian majority are liberal Muslims. Scanderbeg was converted into Muslim when he was a kid. He served as a soldier for ottomans. He came back to his country to fight against the ottomans. During his life, he converted two or three times. His true religion is still uncertain.

You are just intolerant and you can't understand the tolerance.

Caliphate is a medieval state, and has nothing to do with the modern era.

You can't talk about prophet Mohamed, simply because you don't have knowledge. You don't have enough knowledge even about Jesus. Simply because people change the history to make personal benefits.

Rethel
13-11-15, 13:54
Scanderbeg was send from the God to unified the Albanian nation.

So... I have no more questions...

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 13:56
This is a nonsensical argument.
There is no such universal thing
like "timeline of religions age".
Btw, where have you 300
years of persecutions, like
we? Do you forget about that?



It was for greater good - rescue Konstantinopole from you.
And what? Does it mean, that you could take whole Middle
East, northern Africa and Balcans and muslimized it by force? [emoji14]etrified:
You could convert christians in your antychrist religion, because
some group of Frenchmen and Italians take Konstantinopole in 1204?

What a nonsense!



No, not at all... Islam is wonderfull... all muslims in Africa are equal, rich, and
tolerant... especially for christians, who are behending in african coastlines...
They even wnat european christians to come to them and teach them christianity,
and are very gladly when Europeans are going in boats to this paradise on earth... :useless:
Nothing is happening like that... and never will... why? Because of Islam...

Do you know how many people was in Egypt when Omar came? about 15 mln.
Do you know how many people was in Egypt when Napoleon came 1200 later? 1-3 mln.
Really, Islam is not a problem at all...

Do you know why people from Middle East and Africa are coming to Europe?
Because of Islam... they want live there, where is no Islam at all...
Why... because Islam is sooooo good...

And do you know, why Kosovo, Albania, Bosia and Bulgaria
are the most poor countires where no one want to live, and
where crimes have so high level? Becasue there is the most
higher percentage of muslims...

And do you know, why in the Middle East is so horrible enviroment?
Because of Islam... This philosophy is degradating and devastating
everything what can... and in the West muslims are presenting the
same savage behavior as in their original homelands...

Why? Because of Islam...
So all the massacres between orthodox and Catholics happened because of Christianity. Not at all. Are you aware about the massacres in America made by Spanish conquistadors against the pagan native population.

What about the sad situation in Russia, India Latin America, China south east Asia. Are they all Muslims. It's that because of Muslims.

Trust me. More and more, the future population of the Europe will be mixed. We have in Albania mixed families between Christians and Muslims. That's normal. I know you are against, but the world will win against the extremism.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:02
1. And what?
2. This two christian priests shoulldnt be there at all - bacause of muslims, and becasue of Hebdo.
3. Muslims can be a liers and behave like that if it is good for islam. SO WHAT THAT THEY WERE THERE?

It does not change the muslims belives... it does not change that you will be
killing Jews on Saturnday, and christians on Sunday when Mahdi comes... It
does not change that Muslims killed over 60 million christians through 1400 years...
It does not change the thing, that your perfect man was killing jews and christians,
and that your exemplary orthodoxical caliphs were killing and persecuting christians.

SO WHAT?
First, I didn't kill any Christian yet, and here I am representing only my self, not some Arabs who were living during middle age. Frankly , I don't care. I am European and I am proud about that. I don't have anything in common with the Arabs. They have a different culture. I can't live in country like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

The Muslim clerics there are showing that the clerics of Albania are against any kind of religious extremism, including yours.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:07
I am not a christian because what?

Becasue Mohammed was a false prophet?
Becasue I wrote that he killed 800 jews in Jathrib, and two another tribes exiled?
That he had sex with dead body in grave?
That he had sex with nine year old girl?
That he killed every non beliver in Arabia during his life?
That he was not secular at all?

That makes me not a christian? :lmao:
Everything what you wrote could be pretty false.

I don't care what was happening 1400 years ago. Only you do so.

My personal view is that, Christianity and Islam are both wonderful religions. The problem are some extremists like you.

Boreas
13-11-15, 14:20
You need to follow me...............pray to God and IGNORE ALL RELIGIONS ( you don't need to list to those baboons ) . Its the same GOD that all mankind prayed to ....................unless you think there is more than ONE god , then you have a problem.

Monotheism, polytheism or Atheism, I don't see a problem.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:21
I've seen Dervish dance. I've been in Konya afterwards and saw it again. I wanted to see it again.
I've been told about Sufi, I don't know much about them.
But if what they told is true, I respect them because they respect others.
But how many Sufi are there among Muslims? They are a minority no?
For other Muslims I'm just a kafer. So this is mutual, I don't respect them.

So tell me about Sufi. Are there Sufi in Belgium? I don't think so.
Are all Albanian Muslims Sufi?
The Sufi Albanians are mostly the bektashi. Bektashi are almost the half of Albanians Muslims. The rest are Sunni. The baktashi religion is the closest branch of Muslims to Christianity, especially to orthodox religion. The president of Albania is a bektashi. Also the chief of parliament is a bektashi. The prime minister is a Christian. His parents were orthodox, but he might been converted to catholic. Generally the politicians in Albania don't declare their religion. There is not a majority religious group in Albanian population, including kosova . Generally even the Sunni of Albania are liberal, and live a western way of life. The bektashi of Albania don't dance. They have some kind of monasteries generally located outside of the cities. They are akin to the monks of Christianity. They believe in secular Islam.

Even in the Albanians of Kosova and Macedonia we have a mixed religious situation.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:26
The arabic sunni moslems cannot live with Christians or shia moslems or othodox or jews etc etc
That's because of the intolerance, not because of Islam. Some areas of the world are less tolerant and liberal. That's all.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:27
MONOTHEISM HYPOCRITES,
THEY HATE EACH OTHER, BUT NO THEY PRAY TOGETHER, to the same God!!!!!
To Zeus. Zeus and their God, it's the same

Boreas
13-11-15, 14:31
Most muslims hate christians and jews - and it doesn't matter what you said.


Actually, this is some kind of confession. The translation is, "I hate Muslims and it doesn't matter what you said"

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:32
My religion is true.
No, my religion is true, you infidel!
No, no, my religion is true, you heretic!!
No, no, no, my religion is the true one, you idiots !!!
Yes, and in the end we have this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/b7d9dd5835b167d1131d5cfe89e0b9b3.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/daa4312a72fdca2c46bede20cc813f20.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/090fb7a15044d7b51ce6c01a8d76b78f.jpg
But they still go on. Why? Simply because of own personal benefits and ignorance either.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:33
You don't understand what grants one into heaven.
Are you the one who understand that! [emoji57]

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:36
Yes, I saw Christians tolerance to Jews.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Islam_branches_and_schools.svg/2000px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.png

You saw the Mawlawi (which are sunni), not entire Sufi world. In Albania, another Sufi group Bektashi which is Shia, is more common.
Yes. The Nakshbandi are the only one Sufi order, ,which is Sunni.

Piro Ilir
13-11-15, 14:38
You need to follow me...............pray to God and IGNORE ALL RELIGIONS ( you don't need to list to those baboons ) . Its the same GOD that all mankind prayed to ....................unless you think there is more than ONE god , then you have a problem.
If you look carefully, Zeus was the real God even in ancient times [emoji6]

FurToTheThrone
13-11-15, 15:38
Forget the facts, if someone believes in something, they should be allowed ot express what they believe in as long as it doesn't affect the people around him/her. It's an inalienable right that everyone has to be able to coexist no matter where you resided previously, what race you are, or what you believe in. People are os quick to want to enclose those who don't believe the same he/she, but, think to yourself, is that truly a bad thing?

bicicleur
13-11-15, 15:40
Yes. The Nakshbandi are the only one Sufi order, ,which is Sunni.

I am not any wiser by this sheme.

Still the Sufi seem to be a small minority amongst Muslim and the only ones which are tolerant.
Many Muslim hate Sufi. How can they all claim the same religion?

Rethel
13-11-15, 15:45
First, I didn't kill any Christian yet, and here I am representing only my self, not some Arabs who were living during middle age. Frankly , I don't care. I am European and I am proud about that. I don't have anything in common with the Arabs. They have a different culture. I can't live in country like Saudi Arabia or Iran.
The Muslim clerics there are showing that the clerics of Albania are against any kind of religious extremism, including yours.

Neither you, neither all albanian muslims aren't Mohammed who define what is islamic, and what is not, and you are not 1.2 bln muslims.
Traditional polish muslims, Tatars, were drinking alcohol and celebatered christmas. But it doesn't mean that they represented real Islam.
Now... since the begining of XXI century this version of Islam is probably gone... especialy, that polish Tatars are now a minority among
muslims... most of present day muslims are from real islamic states, who are of course talking similar nonsenses about Islam like you, but
their preachings in mosques and behavior at homes is totaly different... is islamic... and lying as taqiya teaches is islamic too...

Rethel
13-11-15, 15:54
So all the massacres between orthodox and Catholics happened because of Christianity. Not at all. Are you aware about the massacres in America made by Spanish conquistadors against the pagan native population.

You are again miss informed.
Spanish only make a war with savages who were killing each other and sacrifaiced people to pagan gods.
You, as muslim should be glad of that. Most Indians in latin America was mixing with spaniards, and local
tribes were very glad that spaniards arrived and freed them from aztec, mayan and inca opression.

Muslim killed during 1400 years about 250.000.000 people.
Among this 60.000.000 christian and 80.000.000 negors.
You have every record in such kind of behavior.

Or maybe you forgot what your beloved Turkish
(and Albanians among them) did in Ornanto?
How they were very loving and peacefull...

Btw, if you are a nationalist, why you
are beliving in the faith of your opressors?
You would be a christian if Turks woudnt be in Albania.


We have in Albania mixed families between Christians and Muslims.

But they are still muslims and christians. It was possible before,
because Albania was a totalitarian atheistic state. You all were
atheists - so no one cared who was who in the past. But now,
new generation of muslims in Albania has totaly different, true
definition what is Islam and what is not - and it will be enlarge.

p.s. can you make normal quotations, not large as 95% of your posts size?

Rethel
13-11-15, 16:07
Everything what you wrote could be pretty false.

So you have no idea at all what Islam teaches or you are lying. Tertium non datur.


I don't care what was happening 1400 years ago.

So how can you called yoursef a muslim, if you do not care what Islam is?


Only you do so.

I care, because, from the fact, who Mohammed was, depend truthness or falsness of Islam.
If you don't care, who Mohammed was, so you are an atheists, not a muslim. Muslim must
belive and behave like Islam teaches, like Mohammed did. Otherwise you are a hypokite, or
you're false claiming that you are a muslim... So this is very important what was 1400 years
ago, because this is Islam - the teachings and models of muslim behavior.

If Mohammed was a true prophet - then you must obey him, and Islam is truth.
If he was not - you cannot obey him, and Islam is false since the beginnig to the end.

There is no other option. If you don't care who Mohammed is - was he true or not prophet,
then you are not a muslim. If you do not listen to Mohammed - you are not true muslim. You
cannot belive in Buddha or claiming him, that he was the true prophet of Islam, and still called
yourself a muslim... such behavior would be an insanity. So, you have only two options - or you
are lying to us about Islam like taqqiya teaches, or you are not muslim at all...



My personal view is that, Christianity and Islam are both wonderful religions. The problem are some extremists like you.

No.
Problem in Islam is Koran, and Sunna and Mohammed himself. All teachings of Islam are problems.
You cannot choose from this what you want and call it Islam, because you are not founder of Islam.

Rethel
13-11-15, 16:10
To Zeus. Zeus and their God, it's the same

And you called yourself a muslim...:confused2:

Boreas
13-11-15, 16:49
Yes. The Nakshbandi are the only one Sufi order, ,which is Sunni.

Mawlavi also should be Sunni.

LeBrok
13-11-15, 17:08
oh, come on!! cant you see that is real, and
words written in the distant past - today is come out:)

besides ....why are you so intolerant for only one group - christians? :useless: Cite me being tolerant to Muslim fundamentalists. By the same token I'm intolerant to all sorts of fanatics and extremists, Christian fundamentalists included.


why are you so intolerant for only one group - christians? :useless: Now you know how Muslims feel hearing Christian fanatic like Rethel.




Live and let live. Or as Jesus said, "Love your neighbors".




PS. You are behind proxy server, this is forbidden on Eupedia.

LeBrok
13-11-15, 17:21
Muslim killed during 1400 years about 250.000.000 people.
Among this 60.000.000 christian and 80.000.000 negors.
You have every record in such kind of behavior.
How did you come up with this number? Now enlighten us how many millions Christians killed and Buddhists.

Rethel
13-11-15, 18:14
How did you come up with this number? Now enlighten us how many millions Christians killed and Buddhists.

I underestimated negros. It was even 120.000.000, and in total 270.000.000 people.

Here you have method and explenation in detail by Bill Warner.

http://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/

But this number dont include people who died because they were
muslims in muslims countries. Like this Egyptians during the ages...
Probably this is impossible to estimate...

Rethel
13-11-15, 18:23
Cite me being tolerant to Muslim fundamentalists.

Being antychristian and prononfundamental muslims is enough.
Why?

1. You are part of anihilating christainity machine making from christains atheists.
2. Muslims are the same part as well - they are making from christians muslims.
3. More muslims in Europe = lower percentage of christians in Europe.
4. Among muslims are jihadists. Amog christians are none jihadists.
5. Muslims are not beliving in nihilistic worldview in such large number as christians.
6. Muslims blow buses because of their religion, not christains.
7. Musims want sharia in Europe, USA and Canada as well... not christians...
8. Muslims hate european countries, not christians.
9. Rating of crimes and rapes is rapidly growing everywhere were are muslims, not christians.
10. Why? Not because this people are different, but because of IDEOLOGY called Islam.

Sile
13-11-15, 18:26
If you look carefully, Zeus was the real God even in ancient times [emoji6]

There are only really 2 types of people................people who believe in God and people who do not.
If we eliminate all the fabricated religions created by man we will have no religious wars........is this hard to understand!

If I had to give a sex to God , I would choose that God was female , only because all humans for the first 6 weeks once the sperm fertilzes the egg are ALL female. The Y chromosome ( if you have one ) kicks in after that and that's how you get a man.

On Zeus, why bring in an example of an Idol, same as cresent or cross or buddha etc etc????

Rethel
13-11-15, 18:40
Now you know how Muslims feel hearing Christian fanatic like Rethel.

Le Brok, you want from me, such a thing as you, beliving in equal rights
in "marriage" for homosexuals, would be against this so called marriages.
Are you?

So don't call me fanatic, because I am talking according to my belives.
If I would declare one, and talking something else it would be nonsense.

By the way, christians ("bad" fanatics as you called us) still have some
selfpreserved instincts and enaugh brain. It cant be saying about yours
nihilistic tribe, because you are fighting people who allowed you to exist
& grow in number, but you invite people, who hate you, despise you and
want to kill you all. Like this bishopess from sweden... stupididy of largest
size as is possible... I never saw a imamess in Arabia who would change a
mousqe into church and insted of crescents want to install crosses... :)

This people are laughing from yours stupidity and they will beheded
you all when they will have an ocasion. Very soon... very soon...
You can talk about atheism and love aso - they dont care...

Do you know this guy named Anjem Choudary? This is the only one onest and
mostly truly speaking muslim whom I know. Lisen to him and hear. Listen what
he is talking about... and you will see a programme (true one) which they have.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Anjem_choudary.jpg/220px-Anjem_choudary.jpg

If you still will not understand, this will means that you are truly blind and you
are living in some imaginary world... You will wake up some day, when you will
be beheaded, and your head will be routed on the street. Probably you'll have
then couple of seconds to consider your previous ideology... But I think, that
you rather will convert to Islam walking to the mosque regurally and praying...
Why? Because you belive in nothing, so you care only about your life... When
you and your tribe will destroyed christianity completly, then you will become
very devoted muslims. Everyone, who will be not beheaded yet...

Rethel
13-11-15, 18:52
Live and let live. Or as Jesus said, "Love your neighbors".

Bible has 31.000 verses, and you know only that one? :petrified:

navi32
13-11-15, 20:25
Cite me being tolerant to Muslim fundamentalists. By the same token I'm intolerant to all sorts of fanatics and extremists, Christian fundamentalists included.

Now you know how Muslims feel hearing Christian fanatic like Rethel.

Live and let live. Or as Jesus said, "Love your neighbors".


Why you do not understand the danger?
For now being in Europe is not them too much, and already
they blackmail goverment of Ireland, with terrorist attack
to give them land so they can make enclave [part of Irleand territory], with shariat rights !

So ...as much they are, as much they are afford..
This is serious danger , and you propably wake up too late
Me , Rethel and others will have clean conscience if that beast show up
in full effect.
But you .. What can you say if the black scenario will show up??
Whoops?:startled:
And it show up for sure.

I have tolerance for all people , that the reason, why we in first priority should protect innocents
Not attackers, murderers,thiefs, blackmailers etc etc



PS. You are behind proxy server, this is forbidden on Eupedia.

This is impossible , i used proxy server around one year ago, and never use on this forum
I have no reason to do it
Maybe something is storing wrong in my ip
(I do not know too much)

navi32
13-11-15, 20:27
Cite me being tolerant to Muslim fundamentalists. By the same token I'm intolerant to all sorts of fanatics and extremists, Christian fundamentalists included.

Now you know how Muslims feel hearing Christian fanatic like Rethel.

Live and let live. Or as Jesus said, "Love your neighbors".


Why you do not understand the danger?
For now being in Europe is not them too much, and already
they blackmail goverment of Ireland, with terrorist attack
to give them land so they can make enclave [part of Irleand territory], with shariat rights !

So ...as much they are, as much they are afford..
This is serious danger , and you propably wake up too late
Me , Rethel and others will have clean conscience if that beast show up
in full effect.
But you .. What can you say if the black scenario will show up??
Whoops?:startled:
And it show up for sure.

I have tolerance for all people , that the reason, why we in first priority should protect innocents
Not attackers, murderers,thiefs, blackmailers etc etc



PS. You are behind proxy server, this is forbidden on Eupedia.

This is impossible , i used proxy server around one year ago, and never use on this forum
I have no reason to do it
Maybe something is storing wrong in my ip
(I do not know too much)

Rethel
13-11-15, 21:48
PS. You are behind proxy server, this is forbidden on Eupedia.

What is going on? Can you explain?

Yetos
13-11-15, 22:10
GUYS
WATCH CaREFULLY,

Christians,
Born in Jerusalem or Nazaret/Galilea?, By one man, riots, Romans, Massada (2nd Messiah) Gathering to Rome, the march to Rome by Peter or Paul?, the hoax of Arena,
what follows, Dark ages, burning bibliotheqes, killing scientists, witch hanting, religious wars that reach 30 years, etc
how many rapes, assasins etc etc in order to turn Europe to jesus, and then America,

Islam
Born in Mekka, by one man, (or medina?) by one man, riots, Egira, Crusaders (romans?) 2nd leader (sunni Suffi) march to Europe (who is expected to come to become martyr to burn cities as in Rome), the Hoax of EU borders,
what follows? Dark ages, burning Universities, killing scientists, witch hunting, religious wars, 3rd schism,
how many rapes, assasins etc etc to turn Europe to Allah and Mohamet

they will recycle great scientific books to write about Allah, as christians did to palimpsista leather scrolls

nothing different,
THE GIFT OF MONOTHEISM = Tyrrany

Fire Haired14
13-11-15, 22:15
Are you the one who understand that! [emoji57]

Anyone who reads the New testement would know. Try it. There's a wrong assumption it has to do with good works. It's hilarious how Jesus preached against Pharisees then the Church and the way it is seen has become in a lot of ways like the Pharisees.

Fire Haired14
13-11-15, 22:31
I'm glad god told you. You must be the chosen one.


My religion is true.
No, my religion is true, you infidel!
No, no, my religion is true, you heretic!!
No, no, no, my religion is the true one, you idiots !!!

It being hard for you to believe that there's a true religion doesn't make it impossible. The box that sacreligious put religion in is idiotic. It's not about blindly believing something with no evidence, it's not about being superstitious, it's not motivated by fulfilling an emotional gap, it's not full of crazy people, it doesn't cause people to hate and kill each other, it doesn't put the mind in jail and hurt scientific discovery.

These are all characteristics of religion that kids learn in school and are of the opinion of people like you. We're not all backwards cavemen who hate anyone who is differnt. I'm fed up with you displaying us like that all the time. I'm not going to let you put me in your box. At times those characteristics are true, but among Christians that is not accepted behavior.

Imagine if you believed you know the true religion. You'd get angry if someone dis agreed with you. That's normal human reaction if they know something very important.

The last thing I have to say is: I'm not the aggressor here, I'm reacting to you. I don't agree with everything Rethel says. But I felt obligated to confront you twisting his words and defend arguments I agreed with.

Rethel
13-11-15, 22:52
Christians,
Born in Jerusalem or Nazaret/Galilea?, By one man,

Islam
Born in Mekka, by one man, (or medina?) by one man,

And you are so wrong...

Because Christianity is not a religion of one guy, as Islam.

Christianity is a religion of 60-70 guys and 66-90 books
writing during 4000 years and who are compatible with
each other living in many places.

Islam is a religion of one guy and one book of one man in one time in one place.

So... the difference is huge.

Rethel
13-11-15, 23:00
Imagine if you believed you know the true religion. You'd get angry if someone dis agreed with you.

He already is doing that :smile:


The last thing I have to say is: I'm not the aggressor here, I'm reacting to you. I don't agree with everything Rethel says. But I felt obligated to confront you twisting his words and defend arguments I agreed with.

I am very thankfull to you Fire Hiared :good_job:

Rethel
13-11-15, 23:41
And... was no need to wait to long for muslim peace loving action...
And as usual lefists jurnalist are silent about religion and motives of
this men, calling them simply terrorists from nowhere without identity..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317776/Machine-gun-fire-heard-central-Paris-police-flood-scene-not-far-Charlie-Hebdo-shootings.html

Paris under siege: Dozens killed and injured in series of coordinated terrorist attacks
after Kalashnikov-wielding gunman goes on the rampage in the capital, 100 hostages
are taken at concert hall and explosions are heard near national stadium



18 people said to have been killed in terror attacks in central Paris tonight
Two attackers reportedly had suicide vests near Stade de France stadium
Hostages taken from rock metal concert at Bataclan music hall, police said


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/13/22/2E6C9FD000000578-3317776-image-a-49_1447452532686.jpg

Yetos
13-11-15, 23:43
And you are so wrong...

Because Christianity is not a religion of one guy, as Islam.

Christianity is a religion of 60-70 guys and 66-90 books
writing during 4000 years and who are compatible with
each other living in many places.

Islam is a religion of one guy and one book of one man in one time in one place.

So... the difference is huge.

blah blah blah,

The History tends to repeat her shelf,

especially in Monotheistic religions, like yours, created by one man God/Human or God/prophet etc etc


Moses Jesus Mohamet
Judaism Christianity Islam
Pharouch Priests Imams

one thing, Tyranny, dark ages,
your priest will surender you to global tyranny,
it is them who will betray you like Ephialtes

cause when I walk in the valley of death
I fear no evil,
cause I am a man who walks alone
cause if I have God with me, Devil will set me trap (or they are the same?)
but If I am free and alone? whom I have to fear?

Btw? how many years you believe will pass, till NASA finds the city in the sky that Jesus promise you?

reveletions ch 20

LeBrok
14-11-15, 06:41
Bible has 31.000 verses, and you know only that one? :petrified:You deliberately ignore this one, one of most important. For this your god will sand you to hell, and I send you to ban. It will be nice to have peace and quiet for a change.

LeBrok
14-11-15, 06:56
Why you do not understand the danger?
For now being in Europe is not them too much, and already
they blackmail goverment of Ireland, with terrorist attack
to give them land so they can make enclave [part of Irleand territory], with shariat rights !Like Muslim Tatars in Poland? Are yo afraid of Muslim Polish Tatars?


So ...as much they are, as much they are afford..
This is serious danger , and you propably wake up too late
Me , Rethel and others will have clean conscience if that beast show up
in full effect.
But you .. What can you say if the black scenario will show up??I'm not going to live paranoid my whole life because "black" scenario can show up. If it does we deal with it. Some religius fanatics are waiting for the end of world for 2 thousand years now. Surprise, it didn't end, world is going strong, people live longer, healthier, happier. Well, except the few with phobias.


I have tolerance for all people , that the reason, why we in first priority should protect innocents
Not attackers, murderers,thiefs, blackmailers etc etcTell it to Muslim Bosnian who were killed and raped by christian Serbian soldier. Where were you to warn them back then?
"Let the one without the sin to cast first stone."





This is impossible , i used proxy server around one year ago, and never use on this forum

I have no reason to do it
Maybe something is storing wrong in my ip
(I do not know too much)I'll check it out in few days.

LeBrok
14-11-15, 07:17
It being hard for you to believe that there's a true religion doesn't make it impossible. The box that sacreligious put religion in is idiotic. It's not about blindly believing something with no evidence, it's not about being superstitious, it's not motivated by fulfilling an emotional gap, it's not full of crazy people, it doesn't cause people to hate and kill each other, it doesn't put the mind in jail and hurt scientific discovery.It is exactly it. You are just in denial. Religion might be a form of addiction. It makes you feel good, and you need another fix.


Imagine if you believed you know the true religion.When I was a christian, I always got stuck on this one. How come other people believe in other religion if my is the right one? Plus other good questions: Why god doesn't care to make all people to believe with him under one religion? He doesn't want all of them to go to heaven? He doesn't care for salvation of humans?
Why god chosen only small group of Jews for his people, and only recently about 4,000 years ago? Why he kept millions of other humans in the dark?

Fire Haired14
14-11-15, 07:41
It is exactly it. You are just in denial. Religion might be a form of addiction. It makes you feel good, and you need another fix.

No that's true at all. This is exactly what I mean. You give explanations as to why people believe in God to make them appear desperate and stupid.


When I was a christian, I always got stuck on this one. How come other people believe in other religion if my is the right one?

Why do some people think it's okay to kill others? There's lots of opinions, because that is the case doesn't make yours untrue.


Plus other good questions: Why god doesn't care to make all people to believe with him under one religion? He doesn't want all of them to go to heaven? He doesn't care for salvation of humans?

It's up to people's chose. The faithful get the gift, it won't just be made obvious and given to everyone. As Jesus said after he rose from the dead: "blessed are those who believe without seeing" Humans rebel and deserve punishment, Jesus was give as a last chance. It's very easy to understand. Today we're care so much about human rights(which is mostly good) we think anytype of punishment is evil, and harshness in Christianity somehow legitimizes it.


Why god chosen only small group of Jews for his people, and only recently about 4,000 years ago? Why he kept millions of other humans in the dark?

No one knows. I see it as he chose a random ethnic group or their predecessors, because he had a plan for them. This is why I don't take Genesis stories of creation seriously, those were stories that existed before God revealed himself. The Old Testament is writings of revelation from God to Jews, the human aspects are also in it though. If you think about the most advanced societies in the world at that time were in the Near East. The Roman empire though is key. That's how Christianity became widespread.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 13:29
I am not any wiser by this sheme.

Still the Sufi seem to be a small minority amongst Muslim and the only ones which are tolerant.
Many Muslim hate Sufi. How can they all claim the same religion?
There are many different religious Christian orders who claim Christianity. Why can't happen the same to Muslims! Everyone who believe that there is only one God and Mohamed is his prophet, becomes a Muslim. Only the extremist are against this. They are against the liberal Islam, because they can't understand the liberal doctrines.

The bektashi clerics are monks. They stay at the Muslim monasteries. They are secularist.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 13:39
Neither you, neither all albanian muslims aren't Mohammed who define what is islamic, and what is not, and you are not 1.2 bln muslims.
Traditional polish muslims, Tatars, were drinking alcohol and celebatered christmas. But it doesn't mean that they represented real Islam.
Now... since the begining of XXI century this version of Islam is probably gone... especialy, that polish Tatars are now a minority among
muslims... most of present day muslims are from real islamic states, who are of course talking similar nonsenses about Islam like you, but
their preachings in mosques and behavior at homes is totaly different... is islamic... and lying as taqiya teaches is islamic too...
So, now you are the one who define who is Muslim and who is not. You have a special gift from God?[emoji47]

No one can't decide that, including you and some ignorant Arabs from middle east and some ayatollahs Iranians .

So if one drink alcohol and go around with girls is not a Muslim, just because you saying so? Everyone could be a Muslim or a Christian even if he is a homosexual. It doesn't matter. The final judgment is from God not from you. And yes, the Muslims and Christians married to each other in Albania, and that's normal, and you can't do anything against it. They still are Christians and Muslims.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 13:53
You are again miss informed.
Spanish only make a war with savages who were killing each other and sacrifaiced people to pagan gods.
You, as muslim should be glad of that. Most Indians in latin America was mixing with spaniards, and local
tribes were very glad that spaniards arrived and freed them from aztec, mayan and inca opression.

Muslim killed during 1400 years about 250.000.000 people.
Among this 60.000.000 christian and 80.000.000 negors.
You have every record in such kind of behavior.

Or maybe you forgot what your beloved Turkish
(and Albanians among them) did in Ornanto?
How they were very loving and peacefull...

Btw, if you are a nationalist, why you
are beliving in the faith of your opressors?
You would be a christian if Turks woudnt be in Albania.



But they are still muslims and christians. It was possible before,
because Albania was a totalitarian atheistic state. You all were
atheists - so no one cared who was who in the past. But now,
new generation of muslims in Albania has totaly different, true
definition what is Islam and what is not - and it will be enlarge.

p.s. can you make normal quotations, not large as 95% of your posts size?
Frankly, I don't care about massacres of middle ages. It is because people trying to invade others not because of religion.

Turkish were not my beloved ones. Stop insulting me. One who invade my country is not beloved one. Scanderbeg is loved in Albania, and Albanians don't care about his religion. Important is that he was an Albanian, a real one. He is the symbol of Albanians, including mother Teresa of Calcutta. (Ethnic Albanian from Skopje) . Albanians are proud of their patriots no matter what is their religion. Frankly, they don't care. The religion it's something personal.

And stop saying the word "you" . I am representing here only myself. Either you, are not representing here all the Catholics. Look at my avatar. He was an important Albanian priest of early 20 century. He was a great man and a good patriot (Father Gjergj Fishta) .

I am not a nationalist as you said, but a patriot. It's a huge gap between the two.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 14:00
So you have no idea at all what Islam teaches or you are lying. Tertium non datur.



So how can you called yoursef a muslim, if you do not care what Islam is?



I care, because, from the fact, who Mohammed was, depend truthness or falsness of Islam.
If you don't care, who Mohammed was, so you are an atheists, not a muslim. Muslim must
belive and behave like Islam teaches, like Mohammed did. Otherwise you are a hypokite, or
you're false claiming that you are a muslim... So this is very important what was 1400 years
ago, because this is Islam - the teachings and models of muslim behavior.

If Mohammed was a true prophet - then you must obey him, and Islam is truth.
If he was not - you cannot obey him, and Islam is false since the beginnig to the end.

There is no other option. If you don't care who Mohammed is - was he true or not prophet,
then you are not a muslim. If you do not listen to Mohammed - you are not true muslim. You
cannot belive in Buddha or claiming him, that he was the true prophet of Islam, and still called
yourself a muslim... such behavior would be an insanity. So, you have only two options - or you
are lying to us about Islam like taqqiya teaches, or you are not muslim at all...




No.
Problem in Islam is Koran, and Sunna and Mohammed himself. All teachings of Islam are problems.
You cannot choose from this what you want and call it Islam, because you are not founder of Islam.
Again, you drawing Islam by your wish. If you listening the fairytales of some wahabi Arabs, that's your problem, not mine. They drawing the prophet by their wish. Frankly, I don't care about the Arabs and Iranians. I hope Iran and Saudi Arabia one day would be secular states. There is enough space in democracy for everyone, including Muslims.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 14:04
And you called yourself a muslim...:confused2:
Enough with wahabi fairytales. Of course Zeus was the God. Don't forget the cult of Zeus came from Crete during the Minoan civilization. The Minoan civilization took many stuff from middle east.

The other gods were indeed saints.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 14:06
Mawlavi also should be Sunni.
Really. As far as I know there is only one Sufi order close to the Sunni.(nakshibandi) Although I might be wrong.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 14:13
There are only really 2 types of people................people who believe in God and people who do not.
If we eliminate all the fabricated religions created by man we will have no religious wars........is this hard to understand!

If I had to give a sex to God , I would choose that God was female , only because all humans for the first 6 weeks once the sperm fertilzes the egg are ALL female. The Y chromosome ( if you have one ) kicks in after that and that's how you get a man.

On Zeus, why bring in an example of an Idol, same as cresent or cross or buddha etc etc????
First- God is not a man neither a woman. God is the creator of universe, that's all. All the rest is used for personal goals.
Second- If you look carefully, Zeus was the same God that we believe today. The same God of Abraham.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 14:17
Le Brok, you want from me, such a thing as you, beliving in equal rights
in "marriage" for homosexuals, would be against this so called marriages.
Are you?

So don't call me fanatic, because I am talking according to my belives.
If I would declare one, and talking something else it would be nonsense.

By the way, christians ("bad" fanatics as you called us) still have some
selfpreserved instincts and enaugh brain. It cant be saying about yours
nihilistic tribe, because you are fighting people who allowed you to exist
& grow in number, but you invite people, who hate you, despise you and
want to kill you all. Like this bishopess from sweden... stupididy of largest
size as is possible... I never saw a imamess in Arabia who would change a
mousqe into church and insted of crescents want to install crosses... :)

This people are laughing from yours stupidity and they will beheded
you all when they will have an ocasion. Very soon... very soon...
You can talk about atheism and love aso - they dont care...

Do you know this guy named Anjem Choudary? This is the only one onest and
mostly truly speaking muslim whom I know. Lisen to him and hear. Listen what
he is talking about... and you will see a programme (true one) which they have.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Anjem_choudary.jpg/220px-Anjem_choudary.jpg

If you still will not understand, this will means that you are truly blind and you
are living in some imaginary world... You will wake up some day, when you will
be beheaded, and your head will be routed on the street. Probably you'll have
then couple of seconds to consider your previous ideology... But I think, that
you rather will convert to Islam walking to the mosque regurally and praying...
Why? Because you belive in nothing, so you care only about your life... When
you and your tribe will destroyed christianity completly, then you will become
very devoted muslims. Everyone, who will be not beheaded yet...
And who the hell cares what this imam is saying.

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 14:25
It being hard for you to believe that there's a true religion doesn't make it impossible. The box that sacreligious put religion in is idiotic. It's not about blindly believing something with no evidence, it's not about being superstitious, it's not motivated by fulfilling an emotional gap, it's not full of crazy people, it doesn't cause people to hate and kill each other, it doesn't put the mind in jail and hurt scientific discovery.

These are all characteristics of religion that kids learn in school and are of the opinion of people like you. We're not all backwards cavemen who hate anyone who is differnt. I'm fed up with you displaying us like that all the time. I'm not going to let you put me in your box. At times those characteristics are true, but among Christians that is not accepted behavior.

Imagine if you believed you know the true religion. You'd get angry if someone dis agreed with you. That's normal human reaction if they know something very important.

The last thing I have to say is: I'm not the aggressor here, I'm reacting to you. I don't agree with everything Rethel says. But I felt obligated to confront you twisting his words and defend arguments I agreed with.
Yes, but Rethel seems to be an extremist. At least from his posts

Piro Ilir
14-11-15, 14:30
And... was no need to wait to long for muslim peace loving action...
And as usual lefists jurnalist are silent about religion and motives of
this men, calling them simply terrorists from nowhere without identity..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317776/Machine-gun-fire-heard-central-Paris-police-flood-scene-not-far-Charlie-Hebdo-shootings.html

Paris under siege: Dozens killed and injured in series of coordinated terrorist attacks
after Kalashnikov-wielding gunman goes on the rampage in the capital, 100 hostages
are taken at concert hall and explosions are heard near national stadium



18 people said to have been killed in terror attacks in central Paris tonight
Two attackers reportedly had suicide vests near Stade de France stadium
Hostages taken from rock metal concert at Bataclan music hall, police said


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/13/22/2E6C9FD000000578-3317776-image-a-49_1447452532686.jpg
We have three kind of people in this world.
1- the extremists
2- the conservatives
3- the liberals
It's pretty clear which is your place here and which is of the extremists attackers.

navi32
14-11-15, 18:15
Like Muslim Tatars in Poland? Are yo afraid of Muslim Polish Tatars?
No i'm not, because they are assimiled and want to live like full-rights citizens of the country
[they are assimiladed in time, when goverment required work to live like normal citizens
and not give big socials]
oposite of today's waves of Muslims who want's to conquer Europe
I' m newcomer so i can't show you links, but they are threated Paris
and terrorist attack
They happy that people afraid al in name of Allah
In your opinion ,we should agree with that?
or wait until it overtakes us, or maybe we should get some moves
like disarms , write new laws like:
"anyone who sell weapon to Islamist shall be punished by imprisonment ruthless"
"anyone who has a weapon, or thretaen behavior should be immediately deported"

And above all:

''who illegally crosses the boundaries does not have full rights as a citizen''

What makes diffirence beetween normal imigrants, and this wave??
Numberings??

I dont see any reasons, as well as logical
than moral

LeBrok
14-11-15, 18:29
No that's true at all. This is exactly what I mean. You give explanations as to why people believe in God to make them appear desperate and stupid. I never said stupid, what about tricked by their nature/spirituality? It is easy in my case. I'm not a spiritual person and I don't believe in god(s).




Why do some people think it's okay to kill others? There's lots of opinions, because that is the case doesn't make yours untrue.
Sell deference, greed, military order, pleasure. It is all explainable. However the "right religion" conundrum can't be explained by One God universe. Unless the god is weird and cruel. If there are many gods then believing in different god makes sense. Like it used to be before Judaism.



It's up to people's chose. The faithful get the gift, it won't just be made obvious and given to everyone. As Jesus said after he rose from the dead: "blessed are those who believe without seeing" Humans rebel and deserve punishment, Jesus was give as a last chance. It's very easy to understand. Today we're care so much about human rights(which is mostly good) we think anytype of punishment is evil, and harshness in Christianity somehow legitimizes it.
What choice? How pagans before Moses could learn the right religion. God didn't tell anyone yet. Before Moses Jews were poliomyelitis, attested by archeology. Moses lost the first set of commandments busting the pagan statue Jews were praying to.
How pagan natives of America and Australia could learn about the true god before Europeans got there?



No one knows. I see it as he chose a random ethnic group or their predecessors, because he had a plan for them. This is why I don't take Genesis stories of creation seriously, those were stories that existed before God revealed himself. The Old Testament is writings of revelation from God to Jews, the human aspects are also in it though. If you think about the most advanced societies in the world at that time were in the Near East. The Roman empire though is key. That's how Christianity became widespread.
Have a look at evolution of God himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yzpaIrTFMc
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28689-Favorite-Historical-Movies?p=418113&viewfull=1#post418113

LeBrok
14-11-15, 18:35
No i'm not, because they are assimiled and want to live like full-rights citizens of the country
[they are assimiladed in time, when goverment required work to live like normal citizens
and not give big socials]
oposite of today's waves of Muslims who want's to conquer Europe Actually the Tatars were conquering the Europe. Syrian refugees want just a peaceful place to raise family. Exactly what you want.

I' m newcomer so i can't show you links, but they are threated Paris
and terrorist attack
They happy that people afraid al in name of Allah
In your opinion ,we should agree with that?
or wait until it overtakes us, or maybe we should get some moves
like disarms , write new laws like: I'm not sure if you noticed but there are tens of millions of Muslims in Europe, but the terrorist attacks are done only by few radicalized people.


"anyone who sell weapon to Islamist shall be punished by imprisonment ruthless"
"anyone who has a weapon, or thretaen behavior should be immediately deported"

And above all:

''who illegally crosses the boundaries does not have full rights as a citizen''

What makes diffirence beetween normal imigrants, and this wave??
Numberings??

I dont see any reasons, as well as logical
than moral
EU was slow to react to refugee crises and to ISIL thread. Now there are consequences.

bicicleur
14-11-15, 19:41
And who the hell cares what this imam is saying.

many Muslims do and it is because Mohammed himself was a warrior who told we are all kaffers
he uses the Quran as an inspiration to convince others to go and kill kaffers

if the Quran is your holy book, then you should care

Sile
14-11-15, 19:47
I never said stupid, what about tricked by their nature/spirituality? It is easy in my case. I'm not a spiritual person and I don't believe in god(s).



Sell deference, greed, military order, pleasure. It is all explainable. However the "right religion" conundrum can't be explained by One God universe. Unless the god is weird and cruel. If there are many gods then believing in different god makes sense. Like it used to be before Judaism.


What choice? How pagans before Moses could learn the right religion. God didn't tell anyone yet. Before Moses Jews were poliomyelitis, attested by archeology. Moses lost the first set of commandments busting the pagan statue Jews were praying to.
How pagan natives of America and Australia could learn about the true god before Europeans got there?



Have a look at evolution of God himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yzpaIrTFMc
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28689-Favorite-Historical-Movies?p=418113&viewfull=1#post418113

There are no pagan idols, they where praying to God...........pagan is a concept of heavy handed religions being created that claims these people do not pray to the same God as they pray to. Its there way or no way.

The term pagan is a fabrication of the following groups, Christians, moslems and Jews.........they got together and claimed any religion not in this group is to be named as pagan.

These "mafia" religious creations have come and gone since the creation of man and will continue to be created to exploit the weakness of man to be in some "religious society" and not a tribal society .............or lately a nationalistic society.

Your Bias to people who are not part of this group is starting to show on this forum.

bicicleur
14-11-15, 19:47
] I'm not sure if you noticed but there are tens of millions of Muslims in Europe, but the terrorist attacks are done only by few radicalized people.


How many of them acknowledge secular democracy?
How many of them don't discriminate between Muslims and kaffers?

Nobody knows, but it is not a small minority that don't.

LeBrok
14-11-15, 21:20
How many of them acknowledge secular democracy?
How many of them don't discriminate between Muslims and kaffers?

Nobody knows, but it is not a small minority that don't.You can say the same about many Christians in Europe.

Fire Haired14
14-11-15, 22:34
Sell deference, greed, military order, pleasure. It is all explainable. However the "right religion" conundrum can't be explained by One God universe. Unless the god is weird and cruel. If there are many gods then believing in different god makes sense. Like it used to be before Judaism.

You trying to put God under philosophical rules is a bad attempt. "God did this... and is therefore cruel.....and therefore doesn't exist".



What choice? How pagans before Moses could learn the right religion. God didn't tell anyone yet. Before Moses Jews were poliomyelitis, attested by archeology. Moses lost the first set of commandments busting the pagan statue Jews were praying to.
How pagan natives of America and Australia could learn about the true god before Europeans got there?

This is a very elementary question. The answer is humans rebelled and were ignorant of God. How does harshness evidence God doesn't exist? Does everything have to be rainbows and roses? That's what "Modern day Mr. Tolerant 101" says but sometimes being hard on people is good.

Fire Haired14
14-11-15, 22:43
'm not sure if you noticed but there are tens of millions of Muslims in Europe, but the terrorist attacks are done only by few radicalized people.

No a few radicals find ways to act on their believes. Most refugees are young men, which is a problem. In Sweden 70%+ of rapes are committed by young Muslim men who take up less than 5% of the population. In France they don't assimilate. Europe is spending billions of dollars on refugees, some of whom might be a threat and others become social isolates and people who won't get educated. After this attack, it's stupid to defend wide-open borders for refugees.

I don't get why you're watering down the attacks in France. This is exactly what people have warned "Tolerant" folk in Europe about over the last several months. It's sad it takes 129 people to die for Europe to finally realize how much of a threat ISIS is. It's time for stricter borders, to stop Islamic soldiers from coming in. 99%+ or whatever won't attack anyone but enough will that strict borders are needed. I like that Poland is rebelling against the EU refugee law by not letting in as much as they were required. You won't see attacks like in Paris, in Poland or Hungary for a reason.

navi32
15-11-15, 03:25
Actually the Tatars were conquering the Europe. Syrian refugees want just a peaceful place to raise family. Exactly what you want.
[/COLOR] I'm not sure if you noticed but there are tens of millions of Muslims in Europe, but the terrorist attacks are done only by few radicalized people.

EU was slow to react to refugee crises and to ISIL thread. Now there are consequences.

why you talk what i want , if i did'nt write it??
Can you talk to me, not to you2clone?
Please i preffer serious talk :(


I'm not sure if you noticed but there are tens of millions of Muslims in Europe, but the terrorist attacks are done only by few radicalized people.
Yes i noticed that, that's why i write about neccesity of disarm, punish the traitors who sell weapons
to Islamist and other NECCESARY moves , to nip aggression in the bud!!!
Come on , you want to be passive and watch so many death of European people?
you really want it??



EU was slow to react to refugee crises and to ISIL thread. Now there are consequences.

That's so true :( And now they there aren't much smarter :(

Ike
15-11-15, 06:31
I don't get why you're watering down the attacks in France. This is exactly what people have warned "Tolerant" folk in Europe about over the last several months. It's sad it takes 129 people to die for Europe to finally realize how much of a threat ISIS is. It's time for stricter borders, to stop Islamic soldiers from coming in. 99%+ or whatever won't attack anyone but enough will that strict borders are needed. I like that Poland is rebelling against the EU refugee law by not letting in as much as they were required. You won't see attacks like in Paris, in Poland or Hungary for a reason.

Needed just a simple and inexpensive test when they cross the border - to sketch a picture of Muhammad and to kiss an icon of Jesus :)

LeBrok
15-11-15, 06:48
There are no pagan idols, they where praying to God...........pagan is a concept of heavy handed religions being created that claims these people do not pray to the same God as they pray to. Its there way or no way.

The term pagan is a fabrication of the following groups, Christians, moslems and Jews.........they got together and claimed any religion not in this group is to be named as pagan.

These "mafia" religious creations have come and gone since the creation of man and will continue to be created to exploit the weakness of man to be in some "religious society" and not a tribal society .............or lately a nationalistic society.Thanks for discovering definition of paganism.


Your Bias to people who are not part of this group is starting to show on this forum.What group? Bias to people?

LeBrok
15-11-15, 06:53
You trying to put God under philosophical rules is a bad attempt. "God did this... and is therefore cruel.....and therefore doesn't exist". I asked you what you think about this, not what you think I think about this. Do you have an explanation?





This is a very elementary question. The answer is humans rebelled and were ignorant of God. How does harshness evidence God doesn't exist? Does everything have to be rainbows and roses? That's what "Modern day Mr. Tolerant 101" says but sometimes being hard on people is good.Try again. How pagans before Moses could know about true god?

LeBrok
15-11-15, 06:56
why you talk what i want , if i did'nt write it??
Can you talk to me, not to you2clone?
Please i preffer serious talk :(Don't you want to raise your family in peaceful place?



Yes i noticed that, that's why i write about neccesity of disarm, punish the traitors who sell weapons
to Islamist and other NECCESARY moves , to nip aggression in the bud!!!
Come on , you want to be passive and watch so many death of European people?
you really want it??Who is selling weapons to ISIL?

Fire Haired14
15-11-15, 07:49
Try again. How pagans before Moses could know about true god?

They don't have to. Maybe there was a way maybe there wasn't. The assumption there wasn't.

Yetos
15-11-15, 09:58
I asked you what you think about this, not what you think I think about this. Do you have an explanation?




Try again. How pagans before Moses could know about true god?


why?

After Moses, Do we know about True God?

We do not even know Truth of Sokrates and Platon,
how we can know about True Gods?
because they spoke to Moses?
they send Christ?
they revealed to Mohamet?

pffffffff

OK I AM THE ONE,
I AM YOUR PROPHET,
YESTERDAY GOD SPOKE TO ME IN MY DREAM,
I AM THE CHOSEN ONE CAUSE GOD SPEAK TO ME, :laughing:

kyrani99
15-11-15, 14:00
how we can know about True Gods?
because they spoke to Moses?
they send Christ?
they revealed to Mohamet?

Prophets and avatars of God as also gurus and masters (eg sensei/ roshi) ONLY provide some pointers. And there is always the problem of translations and corruptions for political interests of religious texts. But the way to God is not found no matter how good the pointers and faithful the texts.

There is a big difference between God being pointed to and being "awakened in The Presence". There is only one way to know God and that is by Grace. Those who have a burning, all-consuming desire to know God, God will awaken from the delusion or veil of selfhood.

bicicleur
15-11-15, 14:30
Prophets and avatars of God as also gurus and masters (eg sensei/ roshi) ONLY provide some pointers. And there is always the problem of translations and corruptions for political interests of religious texts. But the way to God is not found no matter how good the pointers and faithful the texts.

There is a big difference between God being pointed to and being "awakened in The Presence". There is only one way to know God and that is by Grace. Those who have a burning, all-consuming desire to know God, God will awaken from the delusion or veil of selfhood.

'And there is always the problem of translations and corruptions for political interests of religious texts.'
The original religious texts were already written for political interests.
That goes for the bible as for the Quran.
The bible was written for a Jewish king who was at war with the Filistines and with rival Jewish kings.
The Quran was written by a warlord.

Piro Ilir
15-11-15, 14:40
many Muslims do and it is because Mohammed himself was a warrior who told we are all kaffers
he uses the Quran as an inspiration to convince others to go and kill kaffers

if the Quran is your holy book, then you should care
Mohamed is one of many prophets send by God. Jesus is one of them, either. Jesus is even more important than Mohamed, maybe. It depends from the point of view. According to Islam, there were send many prophets, Mohamed is only one of them. Mohamed was a warrior, but not only a warrior. He was many things. There are many prophets who were warriors before him. Nothing wrong with that. Don't forget, he was living at the 7century ad. There are different Islamic doctrines. The Muslims of Europe are different from the Muslims of Asia generally talking. It has nothing to with Islam, but about the tolerance and modernism.

Piro Ilir
15-11-15, 14:55
How many of them acknowledge secular democracy?
How many of them don't discriminate between Muslims and kaffers?

Nobody knows, but it is not a small minority that don't.
The majority of Muslims in Balkans are liberal and secular. The problem with the Muslims of western Europe is that they came from an intolerant and anti liberal society. They are generally Arabics. Why the Albanians should have as a flag this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/15/cde8b5cb82267b8f9b13a39fc5b4fcb3.jpg
If it's possible that the Muslims of Balkans could be liberal, it could be possible for all the Muslims of the world.

Piro Ilir
15-11-15, 15:07
'And there is always the problem of translations and corruptions for political interests of religious texts.'
The original religious texts were already written for political interests.
That goes for the bible as for the Quran.
The bible was written for a Jewish king who was at war with the Filistines and with rival Jewish kings.
The Quran was written by a warlord.
Don't forget. They killed Jesus. They tried to kill even Mohamed, but he escaped.

We are living at the 21 century. People are measuring prophets who lived many centuries ago.

kyrani99
15-11-15, 15:20
'And there is always the problem of translations and corruptions for political interests of religious texts.'
The original religious texts were already written for political interests.
That goes for the bible as for the Quran.
The bible was written for a Jewish king who was at war with the Filistines and with rival Jewish kings.
The Quran was written by a warlord.

The Old Testament may have been written for a Jewish king, I don't know enough about it.
The New Testament is a collection of documents selected from a larger group by the Romans. And a large part of it, the text written by Paul, was political, as I strongly suspect he was an agent of the Romans, whose interests were in preserving the Eastern Roman Empire (predominantly Greek city states and Palestine/Israel) So there are political reasons but not all the documents, in their original form were written for political reasons. However I would say may had been altered for political reasons. For instance I don't think there are originals found for the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. They are all "the Gospel according to...." Who wrote them? They are no doubt altered and for political reasons but the originals were not for political reasons. There is enough evidence to see both what is theology and what is corruption.

The Quran was not written by a warlord and I assume you are referring to the Prophet Mohammet. No only because I do not believe Mohammet was a warlord, even though he was called upon to lead an army, but because the Quran is a collection of sayings of the Prophet, which were put together after his death and indeed after his successors were murdered even though they'd stepped down for the sake of peace as it seems in what I have read. There would most probably also be alterations in some of the Quran, especially where it may have conflicted with tribal laws and customs.

These are not the sum total of holy texts. There are many documents, the Buddha's saying, the Hindu texts, Chinese, Pagan European and many, many others. These may also be corrupted in one way or another for political reasons but not necessarily all at the start. There are people who are genuinely spiritual and desiring to learn from others that are more enlightened. To say it is all for political reason is to deny religion.

kyrani99
15-11-15, 15:37
Why the Albanians should have as a flag this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/15/cde8b5cb82267b8f9b13a39fc5b4fcb3.jpg
If it's possible that the Muslims of Balkans could be liberal, it could be possible for all the Muslims of the world.

What is the significance of this image? Is this from the Byzantine Empire?

Yetos
15-11-15, 17:34
The majority of Muslims in Balkans are liberal and secular. The problem with the Muslims of western Europe is that they came from an intolerant and anti liberal society. They are generally Arabics. Why the Albanians should have as a flag this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/15/cde8b5cb82267b8f9b13a39fc5b4fcb3.jpg
If it's possible that the Muslims of Balkans could be liberal, it could be possible for all the Muslims of the world.


you are a Turk-Alban,

you use Byzantine war Flag of kastrioti,

you say about the muslim of balkans,
but you do not say that in Balkans are the 4rth, the 9nth, and the 12nth most Jihadist countries,
more than 650 Jihadists of DAESH are from Balkan muslim countries,
Albania Kossovo Bosnia

and you use the avatar of a catholic priest,

COME ON drop your mask,
and reveal who you really are

I am sure that your grand grand father was Ballaban pasha

muslims of balkans are not liberal,
Even in Albania news, which are a bit free than other Islamic countries, you hear every day that there is problem with Jihadists Imams,

Ike
16-11-15, 02:15
What is the significance of this image? Is this from the Byzantine Empire?

Yes, old Byzantine heraldic. Used later in Serbian medieval coat of arms (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nemanji%C4%87_dynasty_coat_of_arms,_small,_ba sed_on_Palavestra.jpg). Than again, later adopted by Skenderbeg. Currently used by Albanians, don't know why because they don't quite relate to those values. Their version is in fact a Serbian coat of arms with black eagle instead of white, as would be:

7519

Sile
16-11-15, 07:30
What is the significance of this image? Is this from the Byzantine Empire?

yes it is ............the heads indicated , one looking to the east and the other looking to the west

The albanians and serbs both claim this avatar as they seem to not be able to create there own and wish to obtain some of Byzantium glory

Sile
16-11-15, 07:31
Yes, old Byzantine heraldic. Used later in Serbian medieval coat of arms (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nemanji%C4%87_dynasty_coat_of_arms,_small,_ba sed_on_Palavestra.jpg). Than again, later adopted by Skenderbeg. Currently used by Albanians, don't know why because they don't quite relate to those values. Their version is in fact a Serbian coat of arms with black eagle instead of white, as would be:

7519

but serbs first COA was a boar of the triballi tribe

and

albanians was a ragged mountain sheep........I initially thought it was a goat, but I was corrected by an albanian who said it was a sheep.

LABERIA
16-11-15, 14:43
Yes, old Byzantine heraldic. Used later in Serbian medieval coat of arms (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nemanji%C4%87_dynasty_coat_of_arms,_small,_ba sed_on_Palavestra.jpg). Than again, later adopted by Skenderbeg. Currently used by Albanians, don't know why because they don't quite relate to those values. Their version is in fact a Serbian coat of arms with black eagle instead of white, as would be:

7519

So, in your post as usual, you are trying to offend albanians in our national symbol, following your method, lying. And second using this words:
Currently used by Albanians, don't know why because they don't quite relate to those values.
My question is simple: You are a serb, do you know the history of your country?
Of course we are relate to those values, we don`t share the same values with you. I have explained once, it`s ridiculos when serbs try to behave like knights of christianity. We know that you were very good collaborators of the ottomans. You can not deny the history. History is ruthless.
When Ottomans came to Balcan you chose to be their best collaborators, it was a race between orthodox in Balacan, which would be the greatest collaborator of the turks. Of course, Albanians were stupids, because they decided to fight against the ottomans. You guy were smart. The problem is that in modern time you are trying with all by all means to hide certain truths. It is evident, you fill shame from your history.
And you Serbs, like all Orthodox (excluding orthodox Albanians) you chose to collaborate with the Turks, but in your case there are some specific element. In order to preserve their power the serbian nobilty, prefered to send their daughters, to the different sultans harems, not as noblewoman but as.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivera_Despina

Mileva Olivera Lazarević, Despina Hatun (Serbian Cyrillic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Cyrillic_language): Деспина Оливера Лазаревић; 1372 – after 1444) was the youngest daughter of Lazar of Serbia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_of_Serbia) and Princess Milica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Milica_of_Serbia) and the wife of Ottoman Sultan Bayezid I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayezid_I), whom she married just after the Battle of Kosovo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo) in 1389, as a pledge of peace between the Lazarević (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarevi%C4%87_dynasty) and Ottoman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire) dynasties. After the marriage, she became Despina Hatun (Turkish for "Lady Despina").

Olivera Despina Hatun was born around 1372, the youngest daughter of Prince Lazar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_of_Serbia) and Princess Milica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Milica_of_Serbia) of Serbia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia). Her mother was a descendant of Grand Prince (Veliki župan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veliki_%C5%BEupan)) Stefan Nemanja (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Nemanja), the founder of the Nemanjić dynasty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemanji%C4%87_dynasty) and the fourth cousin once removed of Emperor Dušan of Serbia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Uro%C5%A1_IV_Du%C5%A1an_of_Serbia). Olivera had four older sisters, Mara (mother of Serbian despot Đurađ Branković (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90ura%C4%91_Brankovi%C4%87)), Dragana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragana_of_Serbia), Teodora, and Jelena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelena_Bal%C5%A1i%C4%87) (mother of Balša III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bal%C5%A1a_III), the last ruler of Zeta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_of_Zeta)) and two brothers, Serbian despot Stefan Lazarević (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Lazarevi%C4%87) and Vuk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuk_Lazarevi%C4%87). After the Battle of Kosovo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo) in 1389, Olivera was sent to the harem of sultan Bayezid I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayezid_I), where she remained for the next 12 years and became one of sultan's four wives (in addition to his concubines).

Despite her marriage, she never converted to Islam.
Who care about this. Hahahaha.

And here is the most interesting part

She had a great influence on the sultan, which helped her people, country, and family survive the turbulent times.
I have to accept, you are very smart.

In the Battle of Ankara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ankara) on 20 July 1402, Olivera and Bayezid were captured by Timur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur). She was released in 1403, after her husband's death in captivity.
Now according to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayezid_I

Many writers claim that Bayezid was mistreated by the Timurids.
But i am sure that with Lady Despina he was very kind. She was being sacrificed. The father of Bayezid, Murad I was the person who kill the father of Despina, Prince Lazar in the battle of Kosova.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Brankovi%C4%87

Mara Branković (c. 1416 in Vučitrn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vu%C4%8Ditrn) – 14 September 1487), also known as Sultana Marija, Mara Hatun, Despina Hatun, or Amerissa, was the daughter of Serbian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia) monarch Đurađ (George) Branković (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90ura%C4%91_Brankovi%C4%87) and Eirene Kantakouzene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eirene_Kantakouzene). She entered the harem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem) of Sultan Murad II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murad_II) of the Ottoman Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Brankovi%C4%87#cite_note-fmg.ac-1) The coast between Salonica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salonica) and Kassandra peninsula has been named "Kalamarija" after her – "Mary the Good".

Marriage

According to Fine, Mara was betrothed to Murad II in June 1431. The betrothal was an attempt to prevent an invasion of Serbia from the Ottoman Empire, though periodic Ottoman raids continued. On 4 September 1435, the marriage took place at Edirne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edirne). Her dowry included the districts of Dubočica and Toplica.

Can we say? Your tactics were very, very interesting.
And this are only two examples, because the list of the serbian noblewoman which were send by their fathers, brothers and husbands, is really long.
No. We don`t share the same values. We prefere to die like man, instead to send our womans.
But serbs fought against the Ottomans. Wiki say this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Serbian%E2%80%93Turkish_conflicts
Nice. Let me chose one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29
Let see what serb net-warrior had prepare for us.

The Second Battle of Kosovo (Hungarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language): második rigómezei csata, Turkish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language): İkinci Kosova savaşı) (17 October–20 October 1448) was fought at Kosovo Polje (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Polje) between a coalition of the Kingdom of Hungary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Hungary) and Wallachia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallachia) led by John Hunyadi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hunyadi), against an Ottoman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire)-led coalition under Sultan Murad II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murad_II).
In 1448, John Hunyadi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hunyadi) saw the right moment to lead a campaign against the Ottoman Empire. After the Defeat of Varna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Varna) (1444), he raised another army to attack the Ottomans. His strategy was based on an expected revolt of the Balkan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan) people, a surprise attack, and destroying the main force of the Ottomans in a single battle. Hunyadi was totally immodest and led his forces without leaving any escort behind.
In September 1448 Hunyadi led the Hungarian forces across the Danube river and camped them in Serbia next to Kovin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kovin), just outside the Serbian capital of Smederevo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smederevo). For a full month the Hungarians were encamped there awaiting the German crusaders, the Wallachian Duke as well as the Bohemian and Albanian army.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Rogers2010-5) The Albanian army under Skanderbeg did not participate in this battle as he was prevented from linking with the Hunyadi's army by the Ottomans and their allies.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Rogers2010-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Frash.C3.ABri2002pp160-161-6) It is believed that he was delayed by Đurađ Branković (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90ura%C4%91_Brankovi%C4%87), then allied with Sultan Murad II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murad_II), although Brankovic's exact role is disputed.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Vaughan1954-7)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Sedlar1994-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Babinger1992p40-9) As a result, Skanderbeg ravaged Branković's domains as a punishment for the desertion of Christian cause.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Frash.C3.ABri2002pp160-161-6)[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-10)
The Serbian Despot Đurađ Branković reacted ambiguously at the trespassing and negotiated the terms of joining the Crusade against the Ottomans over that period of time. Hunyadi had told Brankovic that he had brought 20,000 of his own men, awaiting additional reinforcements, and that he with his light cavalry was the only ally necessary to make this a decisive victory. [B]Brankovic was weary, having had his realm restored after a full-scale Ottoman occupation only in 1444, and, fully aware of the strength of the Ottoman military force, wanting to keep his throne. Despot Brankovic was also unwilling to set himself under Hunyadi's command under any condition, as he personally disliked him, considering him of lower stature.

The Serbian rejection and positioning as a neutral side had led to Hunyadi's fury and the Crusaders' decision to treat Serbia as hostile territory. At the end of the negotiations, Hunyadi had threatened to kill Brankovic in person after his country was occupied. In late September 1448, Hunyadi had amassed 30,000 men and moved southwards. The Crusaders pillaged and burned across Serbia, but the Serb Despot gave an explicit order of free passage, refusing to mount a reaction. However, he not only informed Sultan Murad II of the Crusaders' advance, out of both personal interest of friendship with the sultan and anger towards Hunyadi, but also gave him tactical strategic advice regarding the best way to defeat the Crusaders, a plan which the Ottomans followed.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]The idea included letting the Europeans advance deep into Serbian territory, far away from their homeland and then cut off their supply routes, effectively closing them in from all sides and trapping them.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
Battle

The Crusaders arrived at the Kosovo Field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo), the same place the most famous battle in Kosovo in 1389 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo), between Serbs and Ottomans, had occurred, facing an Ottoman army of up to 60,000. Sultan Murad personally commanded a large section of cannons and janissaries, while his son and successor Mehmed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_the_Conqueror), who faced battle for the first time, led the Anatolian troops at the right wing. Hunyadi commanded the center of his army at the battle, while the Crusaders right wing was under the Wallachians. The Hungarians had long barrage cannons.
The next day the battle opened when Hunyadi attacked the Ottoman flanks with mixed cavalry (light and heavy). The Turkish flanks, consisting of soldiers from Rumelia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumelia) and Anatolia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia), were losing until Turkish light cavalry arrived to reinforce them. The Christian flanks were subsequently routed and the survivors retreated back to Hunyadi's main force. When Hunyadi saw the defeat of his flanks, he attacked with his main force, composed of knights and light infantry. The janissary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary) corps were not successful and the cavalry made progress through the Turkish center, but were stopped at the Turkish camp. When the main attack was halted, the Turkish infantry regrouped and successfully drove the Hungarian knights back. The light cavalry, who were now without the knights' support were also overcome. Hungarian forces retreated to their camp. During the retreat, the janissaries killed most of the Hungarian nobles and Hunyadi fled. However, Serbs later captured him. During the night, Turkish infantry fired missiles at the Hungarians who replied with cannons. On the next day, a final assault totally annihilated the remaining Hungarian army.
The two-day battle in Kosovo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo) saw both sides take heavy casualties but left the Ottoman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire) force in command of the field at the end of the second day. The Hungarians' army possibly amounted to 24,000[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Bennett-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Sedlar-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Turnbull-3) and the Turkish between 40,000 and 60,000.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Bennett-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Sedlar-2)
Aftermath

The Christian Balkan states were unable to resist the Ottomans after this defeat, eventually falling under control of the Ottoman Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire). After the battle Hunyadi was captured by Brankovic, who didn't release him until a ransom of 100,000 florins, the return of the domains that Hunyadi had revocated from Brankovic and the engagement of Hunyadi's heir to Brankovic's daughter were agreed upon.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_%281448%29#cite_note-Moln.C3.A1r2001-11) For the remainder of his reign Hunyadi successfully defended the Kingdom of Hungary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Hungary) against the Ottoman campaigns. Skanderbeg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg) also successfully continued his resistance in Albania until his death in 1468, 10 years later the country fell under full Ottoman control.


What a great battle. I have to accept that you are very smart.
No. We don`t share the same values. We chose to fight the Ottomans.
One of the most important battle between Islam and christianity was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople
Again in this battle you like good servs were with the Ottomas. There is an interesting book:
S. Runciman, The Fall of Constantinople 1453, Cambridge 1965.
If you read, you can find that there were Serb troops (1500 cavaliers led by vojvoda Jakša + the miners). But Wiki said about this glorious battle of the serbs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jak%C5%A1a
Jakša (Serbian Cyrillic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Cyrillic_language): Јакша[A] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jak%C5%A1a#cnote_A); fl. 1452-1453), was a military commander (voivodа, Duke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke)) in the Serbian Despotate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Despotate), under Đurađ Branković (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90ura%C4%91_Brankovi%C4%87). In 1452, he was sent as a deputy of the Despot to Dubrovnik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubrovnik). As an Ottoman vassal, Đurađ was forced to send an army to participate in the siege of Constantinople (1453) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_%281453%29). Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror did not tell Đurađ his intentions, but said that the cavalry would travel to Karaman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaman). The sultan slaughtered civilians on his way to Constantinople, which he quickly besieged, Duke Jakša hearing of this, wanted to return but was warned that if they would not continue, the Sultan would destroy the Serbs. The cavalry reached Constantinople, which had been the cradle of Southeastern Christianity and culture, serving as the capital of the now destroyed Byzantine Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire). In his army was Konstantin Mihailović (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Mihailovi%C4%87). Hahahahahahahha.
We have to accept that you were good christians but the fault was of that liar Mehmed II.

But the capolavoro of the serbs was the surrender of capital of Serbia, Smederevo. It was not an act of some traitor. No. All the people of Smederevo, rich and poor decided for this, in a democratic way to open the gate of the city to the Ottomans and to collaborate with them.
We can continue with other curious storys from the resistance of this proud christians against Islam. I am sure that hungarian from their side have to said a lot. But i think is enough for everybody to have an clear idea of the matter.
So, all this servility and submission did not saved the serbs. After all of this, the serb nation just disappeared, ceased to exist. The jungle has tough laws, there is no place for crawlers. The only thing that continue from that nation was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Orthodox_Church
And here we have a very curious detail:

The Serbian Patriarchate was restored in 1557 by the Sultan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan) Suleiman the Magnificent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suleiman_the_Magnificent), thanks to the mediation of the statesman Sokollu Mehmet Pasha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokollu_Mehmet_Pasha).
Gyus, it`s funny. It was a musslim bosniak who saved the Orthodox Church of Serbia.
But you have to comfort yourself, because you were not alone in these values. There were and others that share the same values with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennadius_Scholarius

Mehmed therefore sought the most anti-Western cleric he could find as a figure of unity for the Greeks under Turkish rule – and Gennadius as leading anti-Union figure was a natural choice. On 1 June 1453, just three days after the fall of the city, the new Patriarch's procession passed through the streets where Mehmed received Gennadius graciously and himself invested him with the signs of his office – the crosier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosier) (dikanikion) and mantle. This ceremonial investiture would be repeated by all Sultans and Patriarchs thereafter.[QUOTE]
And her we have a beautiful picture:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Gennadios_II_and_Mehmed_II.jpg
You see? Wonderful painting. My God, the Emperor probably was still unburied.
And what about albanians in all this story?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg
[QUOTE]However, during an ambush in the same battle, Ballaban managed to capture some important Albanian noblemen, including Moisi Arianit Golemi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moisi_Arianit_Golemi), a cavalry commander, Vladan Gjurica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladan_Gjurica), the chief army quartermaster, Muzaka of Angelina (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Muzaka_of_Angelina&action=edit&redlink=1), a nephew of Skanderbeg, and 18 other officers.[119] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg#cite_note-Noli1947p36-119) These men were sent immediately to Constantinople where they were skinned alive for fifteen days and later cut to pieces and thrown to the dogs.[119] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg#cite_note-Noli1947p36-119) Skanderbeg's pleas to have these men back, by either ransom or prisoner exchange, failed.
Well, i have to admit, you are smart people. Why you have to fight like this crazy Albanians?

All this until XVIII when mother Russia came in Balcan and started it`s project of expansionism. Was the russian who told to the orthodox of North Balcan: "Hey you are serbian, because you are orthodox". And speaking about the flag, again was Russia who provided an flag for Serbia. Because the modern serbs did not had a national flag. It`s normal, they were a young and fresh nation.

http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/reportaze/aktuelno.293.html:186456-Hej-Boze-pravde

I ZASTAVA NAOPAKO
NAŠA zastava je ista kao i ruska, samo okrenuta naopako. Postoji priča, tvrdi Konstantin Babić, da je jedna delegacija u vreme Karađorđa otišla u Rusiju po pomoć, a tada se tamo odigravala neka svečanost. Kada su prisutni pitali zašto i Srbi ne idu u svečanu povorku, oni su u brzini ušli i okrenuli zastavu naopako. Okupljeni građani su "primetili" da i Srbi imaju svoje obeležje.
Gg translator

Our flag is the same as the Russian, only upside down. There is a story, says Konstantin Babic, that one delegation at the time of Karadjordje went to Russia for help, and then there took place a ceremony. When present asked why Serbs do not go in solemn procession, they hastily entered and turned the Russian flag upside down. The citizens have thus "noticed" that Serbs have their flag too.

Do you see? We don`t share a lot of things.

LABERIA
16-11-15, 16:25
I have said once to you, from your posts i can deduce that you are a man arround 45-50 years old. Don`t you fill shame for this kind of posts? And if one day your wife or your children decide: Hey let see what dad says in this forum? How do you explain to them?

you are a Turk-Alban,
Why you ofend my nation an my flag? Who have been in Greece know that greeks and turks have the same face. You are one race. The only difference is the religion.
You forget my posts:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30592-Balkanian-disagreements?p=468036&viewfull=1#post468036
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31367-Future-of-Greece?p=467639&viewfull=1#post467639
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31367-Future-of-Greece?p=467640&viewfull=1#post467640




It was not enough for you, Professor Efthimiou, Ioannis Kolettis, Greek Helsinki? You want more? Ok, i will give you more.



During XIX century more than 100 western travellers visited Greece. This people were in Greece for different reasons. Let`s read one of them. Be careful at the footnotes:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/jochmus.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/jochmus100.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/jochmus100a.png
Do you see your BS about turkalbanian? Do you see the different social classes. The Albanians, musslims and christians and the rayah. The Albanian Palikari and the Barbatches, an amorphous mass without national identity. All this to explain to you this word, turkalbanian.

Let see something very interesting:

Yetos, we have a beautifull flag. The flag of Scanderbeg.
Let`s see yours.

This is the page of Wiki in english about The Greek revolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_War_of_Independence
Every revolution has a symbolic moment. This is the symbolic moment of the Greek Revolution brought to us by this beautiful painting :
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Epanastasi.jpg/435px-Epanastasi.jpg
Theodoros Vryzakis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodoros_Vryzakis) (oil painting, 1852, Benaki Museum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benaki_Museum), Athens) illustrates Bishop Germanos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanos_of_Patras) of old Patras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patras) blessing the Greek banner at Agia Lavra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agia_Lavra) on the outset of the national revolt against the Turks on 25 March 1821.
Well, it`s a FAKE . Not the paining, but this moment of greek history.
Let see what greek teachers had to said about this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Workers_Militant_Front

The All-Workers Militant Front (Greek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): Πανεργατικό Αγωνιστικό Μέτωπο, ΠΑΜΕ, Panergatiko Agonistiko Metopo, PAME) is a coordination centre within the Greek trade union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union) movement, founded on the initiative of Communist Party of Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece) trade-unionists in April 1999. Amongst its membership are also cadres of Communist Renewal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Renewal). PAME is critical of the official positions and leadership of the General Confederation of Greek Workers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Confederation_of_Greek_Workers). According to its website, the trade unions that are affiliated in PAME have 415,000 members in total as of 2005. As of June 2012, according to the Communist Party of Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece), PAME affiliated unions have 850,000 members.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Workers_Militant_Front#cite_note-1) PAME is internationally affiliated with the World Federation of Trade Unions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Federation_of_Trade_Unions).
http://www.902.gr/eidisi/neolaia-paideia/11763/epistoli-ekpaideytikon-toy-pame-stoys-mathites-gia-tin-25i-marti

Επιστολή εκπαιδευτικών του ΠΑΜΕ στους μαθητές για την 25η Μάρτη



Είναι ώρα να πούμε τα πράγματα με το όνομά τους!

Δεν σου κάνει εντύπωση το γεγονός ότι γιορτάζουμε την έναρξη της επανάστασης του 1821 στις 25 Μάρτη, ενώ ήδη στις 23 Μάρτη του 1821 η Καλαμάτα και άλλα μέρη της Πελοποννήσου είχαν απελευθερωθεί από τους Τούρκους;

Η απάντηση είναι ότι με διάταγμα του 1838, δηλαδή 17 χρόνια αργότερα, ορίσθηκε εθνική γιορτή η μέρα του Ευαγγελισμού για να ντύσουν την επανάσταση με θρησκευτικό μανδύα.

Όμως η επίσημη Εκκλησία δεν ήταν υπέρ της Επανάστασης. Όταν ο Παπαφλέσας συναντήθηκε με τον Παλαιών Πατρών Γερμανό για να του πει ότι όλα ήταν έτοιμα για την επανάσταση, ο τελευταίος άρχισε να τον βρίζει ότι είναι απατεώνας. Ο Παλαιών Πατρών Γερμανός μάλιστα είχε πει: «Ας αφήσουμε τα παιδιά του Μωάμεθ να αποτελειώσουν τα παιδιά του Ροβεσπιέρου»!

Ένας από τους κοτζαμπάσηδες, δηλαδή τους Έλληνες άρχοντες της εποχής, είπε «κάλλιο οι Τούρκοι κι ο ραγιάς υπόδουλος, παρά λεύτερο έθνος με το λαό να ’χει δικαιώματα»!

Είναι ψέμα ότι ο Παλαιών Πατρών Γερμανός ύψωσε πρώτος τη σημαία της επανάστασης του 1821. Τη σημαία στην Πάτρα την ύψωσε ο λαϊκός ηγέτης Παναγιώτης Καρατζάς, τον οποίο δολοφόνησαν οι πρόκριτοι της Πάτρας.


Τι σημαίνει αυτό;
Ξέρεις άραγε ότι στα πλοία του Μιαούλη, το πλήρωμα δεν ήξερε καθόλου την ελληνική γλώσσα και ότι μιλούσε αρβανίτικα;

Ξέρεις ότι οι επαναστάτες του 1821 δεν χωρίζανε το λαό σε Έλληνα και ξένο; Ο Ρήγας Φεραίος καλούσε Χριστιανούς και Τούρκους σε κοινό αγώνα για το γκρέμισμα της οθωμανικής κυριαρχίας και στη δημιουργία μιας Βαλκανικής Ομοσπονδίας.

Η επανάσταση του 1821 δεν ήταν θρησκευτικός πόλεμος, ξεσηκωμός των Χριστιανών κατά των Μωαμεθανών.

Ήρθαν στιγμές που Έλληνες και Τούρκοι πολέμησαν μαζί, εναντίον των Βενετών, των Ισπανών και του Πάπα (και αντίστροφα), προτιμώντας οι Έλληνες ραγιάδες την τουρκική από τη δυτικοευρωπαϊκή φεουδαρχία, αφού η τελευταία υπήρξε κατά πολύ σκληρότερη της τουρκικής.

Αλλά και οι Φιλέλληνες της Δυτικής Ευρώπης που συμμετείχαν στην επανάσταση του 1821, είχαν ταξικά κίνητρα: Να κυριαρχήσουν τα ιδανικά και οι σκοποί της μεγάλης (αστικής) Γαλλικής Επανάστασης, ανεξάρτητα από το ότι υπήρχε και ο θαυμασμός τους για την αρχαία παιδεία. Και όπως γνωρίζουμε, η εκκλησία στη Γαλλία δεν πέρασε και πολύ καλές ημέρες κατά τη Γαλλική Επανάσταση...



Letter teachers PAME students for March 25
It's time to call things with their names.
I am not surprised that we celebrate the start of the revolution of 1821 on March 25, and already on March 23, 1821 Kalamata and other parts of the Peloponnese had been liberated from the Turks.

The answer is that by decree of 1838, ie 17 years later, was appointed national feast day of the Annunciation to dress the revolution religious mantle.

But the official Church was not in favor of the Revolution. When Papaflesas met with Bishop Germanos of Old Patras to tell him that everything was ready for the revolution, he began to revile that a crook. The Old Bishop Germanos of Patras had even said: "Let the children of Muhammad to finish the children Robespierre!"

One of the notables, that the Greek rulers of the time, said, "better with Turks and enslaved rayas despite liberty of the nation and to the people anyway rights"!

It is a lie that Bishop Germanos of Old Patras raised the first flag of the Revolution of 1821. The flag on the Patras raised the popular leader Panagiotis Karatzas, whom was murdered by the notables of Patras.



What does this mean;

Do you know that the ships of Miaoulis, the crew did not knew the Greek language and spoke Arvanitika (i.e. Albanian)?

Yessss, we know this and a lot of other things.

You know that the revolutionaries of 1821 did not divide the people in Greek and foreign? Rigas Fereos called Christians and Turks in a common struggle for the demolition of Ottoman rule and the creation of a Balkan Federation.

The revolution of 1821 was not a religious war, uprising of Christians against Muslims.

There was times when Greeks and Turks fought together against the Venetians, Spaniards and Pope (and vice versa), preferring to be rayahs of Turkish instead of the Western European feudalism, since the latter was far harsher from Turkish.

But the philhellenes Western Europe who participated in the revolution of 1821 had class incentives: To dominate the ideals and goals of large (urban) French Revolution, whatever that was, and their admiration for ancient culture. And as we know, the Church in France and spent very good days during the French Revolution ...

All this they will not say in the textbooks because they want to know what the revolution to draw the right conclusions for today and your life.

Why you deny that you were good friends with turks? Why you call the other turks? You were in a fine position under the turkish rule, you were Barbatches. Why you tell to the people lies?

You accuse albanians as terorrist? Really? Do you see any connection between the recent attacks in Paris and this declarations?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-07/greek-minister-threatens-europe-flood-jihadists-and-immigrants-if-greece-fails-warns

Greek Minister Threatens Europe With Flood Of Jihadists And Immigrants If Greece Fails

It wasn't even a full 24 hours after Greece raided at least some of the funds of its pension and other public entities in order to make a €310 payment to the IMF, the first of four this month (the balance is 350 million on March 13, 580 million on March 16 and another 350 million on March 20), that the insolvent country resumed doing what it does best: dispensing hollow threats. This time it was its foreign minister and leader of the Independent Greeks party - Syriza's junion coalition partner - Nikos Kotzias, who showed how to bluff like the best of them, when he threatened that "there will be tens of millions of immigrants and thousands of jihadists, if you take out Greece" the minister said on before EU foreign ministers meeting in Riga.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11459675/Greeces-defence-minister-threatens-to-send-migrants-including-jihadists-to-Western-Europe.html

Greece's defence minister threatens to send migrants including jihadists to Western Europe

Panos Kammenos, Greece's defence minister, threatens to open country's borders to refugees – including potential members of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) - unless Athens receives debt crisis support


Greece (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/) will unleash a “wave of millions of economic migrants” and jihadists on Europe unless the eurozone backs down on austerity demands, the country's defence and foreign ministers have threatened.

The threat comes as Greece struggles to convince the eurozone and International Monetery Fund to continue payments on a £172billion bailout of Greek finances.



That catholic priest in the avatar of Piro is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjergj_Fishta
He was an important personality in our history. He was also an excellent poet. It is said that he wrote this verses:
O fshatar o zemergur
Edhe sikur te nderrosh shtate lekure
Qytetar ti s`behesh kurre.

Oh you villager oh you stoneheart
even if you change seven skins
you will never become a citizen.

Your nation started as barbatches and today is a beggar.

LABERIA
16-11-15, 16:35
but serbs first COA was a boar of the triballi tribe

and

albanians was a ragged mountain sheep........I initially thought it was a goat, but I was corrected by an albanian who said it was a sheep.

I invite you to see yourself in the mirror. I am sure that you will see not a goat or a sheep, but that tame animal used by Jesus.

Piro Ilir
16-11-15, 19:47
What is the significance of this image? Is this from the Byzantine Empire?
No. If you read Albanian history you will understand. It's the flag from Roman empire. There was not a Byzantine empire. The flag comes from the Rome heritage of Albanians. When the empire was divided in two parts, the eagle showed up with two heads. The symbol of two heads mean, the two centers of the empire, Constantinople and Rome. The eagle was the symbol of Rome.

Piro Ilir
16-11-15, 20:00
you are a Turk-Alban,

you use Byzantine war Flag of kastrioti,

you say about the muslim of balkans,
but you do not say that in Balkans are the 4rth, the 9nth, and the 12nth most Jihadist countries,
more than 650 Jihadists of DAESH are from Balkan muslim countries,
Albania Kossovo Bosnia

and you use the avatar of a catholic priest,

COME ON drop your mask,
and reveal who you really are

I am sure that your grand grand father was Ballaban pasha

muslims of balkans are not liberal,
Even in Albania news, which are a bit free than other Islamic countries, you hear every day that there is problem with Jihadists Imams,
Jihadist imams are paid to do that by the Arabs and Iranians.

You are insulting me, saying that I am a Turk. Look at the mirror first. Probably your ancestors were migrants from Asia minor, who settled in Greek Macedonia [emoji6]. You know well, what I am talking about. Everyone knows that the most similar physically to the Turkish race, looks the Greeks. [emoji57]. So better look at the mirror first.

And stop insulting Scanderbeg and the best flag in the world. I am not insulting your invented flag, by some British romanticists and clasicists of 1830 . Your ancestors don't even fought for their own country independence. Indeed the army was filled by arvanites and vlachs. Even the majority of Greece at that time was not ethnically Greek.

Piro Ilir
16-11-15, 20:05
yes it is ............the heads indicated , one looking to the east and the other looking to the west

The albanians and serbs both claim this avatar as they seem to not be able to create there own and wish to obtain some of Byzantium glory
You are wrong about that. It's not Byzantine, it's Roman. The two heads of the eagle shows the two capitals of the empire. A large part of the Albanian language is of Latin origin, because of the long period of coexistence with the Romans. The cultural connection of Albanians two the Roman empire it's proven by the scholars

Piro Ilir
16-11-15, 20:31
Yetos,
this is in the middle of Skopje, Macedonia:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/16/e5295531766887a5d90452c5f62b3aae.jpg
Macedonia voted pro Kosova in UNESCO. The same did, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Turkey, Croatia Slovenia. Which mean that the only one in the region who is against the Albanians it's Greece. Albania it's pro Macedonia either.

And, Yetos don't be jealous because you don't have a great hero as Scanderbeg and a beautiful flag as the Albanian one.

Yetos
16-11-15, 22:27
Yetos,
this is in the middle of Skopje, Macedonia:

And, Yetos don't be jealous because you don't have a great hero as Scanderbeg and a beautiful flag as the Albanian one.

you are funny,

you are a son of Ballaban pasha,
and you claim Kstrioti.
you are a Turk-Alban
but you use Catholic bishop as avatar,

what is next?
maybe you are an aromanian
but you claim to be Albanian?

thank you i needed that laugh.

at Skopjie there is also this Phillip

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8a1Tvb8YMEuAiewk6Y63RQVYFfDUX7 o1luiMsRMXHGhpXnlEIvw

so what?


AND ALSO THIS Dusan

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show//Images/Images.New/Places/Skopje/Sk%202014/Tzar%20Dushan%20Skopje%204x3.jpg

is at Skopjie,


Oh do not forget him Samuel

https://www.getlokal.mk/uploads/photo_gallery/91/32/13/260x195/450pxspomenik_na_tsar_samuil.jpg


So what?

tomorow they might have Merkel's Statue,
they are pluralistic culture, new so open,
and they spend huge amounts of money to decorate their city, which was a reason for big inner argue.
Does this change that you a descendant of Balaban pasha,
a statue at Skopjie?

Yetos
16-11-15, 22:45
You are wrong about that. It's not Byzantine, it's Roman. The two heads of the eagle shows the two capitals of the empire. A large part of the Albanian language is of Latin origin, because of the long period of coexistence with the Romans. The cultural connection of Albanians two the Roman empire it's proven by the scholars

wow?

So Byzantine was not Roman? :laughing:

and the Latin in ALbania could it be Aromanian? :thinking:


just wondering :innocent:

Yetos
16-11-15, 22:58
Jihadist imams are paid to do that by the Arabs and Iranians.

You are insulting me, saying that I am a Turk. Look at the mirror first. Probably your ancestors were migrants from Asia minor, who settled in Greek Macedonia [emoji6]. You know well, what I am talking about. Everyone knows that the most similar physically to the Turkish race, looks the Greeks. [emoji57]. So better look at the mirror first.

And stop insulting Scanderbeg and the best flag in the world. I am not insulting your invented flag, by some British romanticists and clasicists of 1830 . Your ancestors don't even fought for their own country independence. Indeed the army was filled by arvanites and vlachs. Even the majority of Greece at that time was not ethnically Greek.

phhhhhhhh

you do not even the story of my flag,
and invented that British design it,

your imagination runs fast,
so fast that you create stories and theories.

Yetos
16-11-15, 23:00
Jihadist imams are paid to do that by the Arabs and Iranians.

You are insulting me, saying that I am a Turk. Look at the mirror first. Probably your ancestors were migrants from Asia minor, who settled in Greek Macedonia [emoji6]. You know well, what I am talking about. Everyone knows that the most similar physically to the Turkish race, looks the Greeks. [emoji57]. So better look at the mirror first.

And stop insulting Scanderbeg and the best flag in the world. I am not insulting your invented flag, by some British romanticists and clasicists of 1830 . Your ancestors don't even fought for their own country independence. Indeed the army was filled by arvanites and vlachs. Even the majority of Greece at that time was not ethnically Greek.

why you are a blond with blue eyes Normand? or Slav? from how it was call the Serb? Nem...
sorry can not remember

Ike
16-11-15, 23:37
but serbs first COA was a boar of the triballi tribe

Two headed eagle was before the boar. The first mention of the boar as Serbian COA was from 1415. It is always possible it was COA for centuris, but nowhere it is attested AFAIK.



And speaking about the flag, again was Russia who provided an flag for Serbia. Because the modern serbs did not had a national flag. It`s normal, they were a young and fresh nation.
Do you see? We don`t share a lot of things.

It's the same COA dude, get over it...

https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%9A%D0%B8%D1%9B%D0%B8

Medieval Serbian COA of Nemanjic:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sr/a/a8/COA_Serbian_Empire_%281346-1371%29.png




https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srpsko-albansko_prijateljstvo

Flag of Serbian-Albanian friendship:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Serbian-albanian-eagle.gif

Yetos
17-11-15, 01:05
No. If you read Albanian history you will understand. It's the flag from Roman empire. There was not a Byzantine empire. The flag comes from the Rome heritage of Albanians. When the empire was divided in two parts, the eagle showed up with two heads. The symbol of two heads mean, the two centers of the empire, Constantinople and Rome. The eagle was the symbol of Rome.


I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HISTORY YOU LEARN IN ALBANIA

THE FIRST 2 HEAD EAGLE

WAS DEDICATED TO 'PATRIARCHA ECUMENICA .. NOVA ROMA' at around 360 AD if remember correct


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sNOYvNLoOL0/Vh1CBJrYOaI/AAAAAAABVJ4/f0SYHgQwgWE/s1600/1.jpg


BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY PATRIARCH that had 2 continents,

Europe and Asia

Jerusalem patriarch only Judea/Palestine/Cyprus
Antocheia Patriarch/Pope only ASIA
Alexandreia Patriarch/Pope only AFRICA
Roma Patriarch/pope only EUROPE

Nova Roma Patriarch EUROPE AND ASIA (East and West)

BYZANTINE FLAGS

Yellow and black = Peace, law, order , given by God's grace through the Church, as Divine Mercy to Emperror
Yellow and red = presence of his majesty, imperial family, imperial officer, THE EMPEROR HIMSHELF

http://diakonima.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/7dyn-palaiologos-dynasty-eagle12.jpg

RED AND BLACK = WAR FLAG, ARMY FLAG, THE FLAG OF GENERAL Γ ΜΑΝΙΑΚΙΣ ARMY ONLY BY GENERALS

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vBIxHL09O6A/SGuzPJ4DdNI/AAAAAAAAAF8/hW7SqB-_sbw/s320/%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B7+% CF%83%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%B1+%CF%84%CE%BF%C F%85+%CE%B2%CF%85%CE%B6%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CE %BF%CF%85.bmp
The above is the relic of Enstradioti (venicians understand that term well) from almost 1400+ AD




UNDERSTAND IT,
THAT IS GLOBAL HISTORY AND TRUTH,
NOT THE IMAGINATION OF SOME ALBANIAN SCHOLARS

ALL THE ARMY OF MANIAKIS WERE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS,
AS ALL ARBANITES AND ALL ARBERESH BEFORE MOVE TO ITALY
CATHOLISISM ENTER ALBANIA WITH THE ANJU AND THE NORMANDS,
ISLAM ENTERED WITH YOUR GRAND FATHER BALLABAN PASHA

THE ABOVE ARE TRUTH THAT YOU CAN NOT DENY
KASTRIOTI WAS ORTHODOX AS MAJORITY OF THAT TIME ARBANITES AND THAT IS WHY THEY BURRY THERE,

The Flag of Krokodeilos KLADAS

http://www.digital-camera.gr/photos/polemiki_simaia_tou_ysteris_byzantinis_aytokratori as.jpg


UNDERSTAND IT ONCE AND FOR ALL

your Flag is symbol of Byzantium and orthodox church



In mt ATHOS (holy mountain of global orthodox churches)
they have one flag symbol of the Con/lis patriarch

https://hellasforce.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cf83cf85cf83cf83cf89cebccebf-cf84cebf-ceb1ceb3ceb9cebf-cebfcf81cebfcf83-ceb1cf80ceb1cebdcf84ceb1ceb5ceb9.jpg

neither Russian neither Serbian neither Bulgarian etc etc
Only the 2 head eagle symbol
you can see many flags there,
BUT MONKS FLAG IS THIS


and although I despite christianity and Byzantium
that is trouth

LeBrok
17-11-15, 01:08
you are funny,

you are a son of Ballaban pasha,
and you claim Kstrioti.
you are a Turk-Alban
but you use Catholic bishop as avatar,
laban pasha,

Yetos, stop these insults. You have a warning this time.

Yetos
17-11-15, 01:56
Yetos, stop these insults. You have a warning this time.

sory
but in my language there is not the word islam, or muslim, only the word mohamet and mohametism and mohamethanoi or Turks the followers
Μωαμεθ Μωαμεθανισμος Μωαμεθανοι or Tourkoi not Islam neither muslim
so when someone turns to Mohamet we say he τουρκεψε (become a Turk)

when someone turns to Islam
we say he become Turk

so Turko-Polonos is the muslim Polish
Turko-Germanos is the muslim Deutsch
Turko-American are the Muslim of USA

with Turko-Alban means the Albanians who changed to Islam
sory but it has history 900 years that word, and 600 years history the term
in my language we do not have another word for he who turned to Islam, we say he become a Turk
even muslim Roma we call them τουρκογυφτοι
to distinguish them from others

LABERIA
17-11-15, 10:37
sory
but in my language ...........
Sorry, in which language?

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2011/11/12/commentary/modern-greece-built-on-myth/#.Vf-uqn2xdR_


Modern Greece built on myth

by George Zakardakis (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/author/int-george_zakardakis/)

The Washington Post


ATHENS – Greece is the cradle of democracy, but as the world has seen recently, a financial crisis is no time to put important questions to the people. Prime Minister George Papandreou’s proposed referendum on the country’s loan deal with the European Union, called off quickly after intense international opposition, illustrated that perfectly.
Plato and Aristotle would have approved of dropping the referendum. They didn’t like democracy of the direct kind. Neither trusted the people that much.
Sinking deeper into the gravest economic crisis in its postwar history, Greece is no nearer to finding an exit from its woes. A toxic mix of anxiety and fear hangs in the air in Athens. The ordeal shows that living up to lofty idealism is never easy. Modern Greeks know that well for we are, in many ways, the imperfect reflection of an ideal that the West imagined for itself.
When the Greek crisis began two years ago, the cover of a popular German magazine showed an image of Aphrodite of Milo gesturing crudely with the headline: “The fraudster in the euro family.” In the article, modern Greeks were described as indolent sloths, cheats and liars, masters of corruption, unworthy descendents of their glorious Hellenic past.

The irony was that modern Greece has little in common with Pericles or Plato. If anything, it is a failed German project.

In 1832, Greece had just won its independence from the Ottoman Empire. The “Big Powers” of the time, Britain, France and Russia, appointed a Bavarian prince, Otto, as Greece’s first king. Otto arrived with German architects, engineers, doctors and soldiers and set out to reconfigure the country to the romantic ideal of the times.
The 19th century had seen a resurgence of Europeans’ interest in ancient Greece. Goethe, Shelley, Byron, Delacroix and other artists, poets and musicians sought inspiration in classical beauty. They longed for a lost purity in thought, aesthetics and warm-blooded passion.
Revisiting the sensual Greece of Orpheus and Sappho was ballast to the detached coolness of science or the dehumanizing onslaught of the Industrial Revolution.
Otto ensured that modern Greece lived up to that romantic image. Athens, then a small hamlet, was inaugurated as the capital. The architects from Munich designed and built a royal palace, an academy, a library and beautiful neoclassical edifices. Modern Greece was thus invented as a backdrop to contemporary European art and imagination, a historical precursor of many Disneylands to come.

Otto was eventually expelled by a coup. But the foundations of historical misunderstanding had been laid, to haunt Greece and its relations with itself and other European nations forever.

No matter what Otto may have imagined, the truth was that my forefathers, the brave people who started fighting for their freedom against the Turks in 1821, had not been in suspended animation for 2,000 years. Although their bonds with the land, the ruined temples and the myths were strong, they were not walking around in white cloaks with laurel wreaths. They were Christian orthodox, conservative and fiercely antagonistic toward their governing institutions. In other words, they were an embarrassment to all those folks in Berlin, Paris and London who expected resurrected philosophers sacrificing to Zeus.
The profound gap between the ancient and the modern had to be bridged, to satisfy Europe’s romantic expectations of Greece. So a historical narrative was put together claiming uninterrupted continuity with the ancient past, which became the central dogma of Greek national policy and identity.

Growing up in Greece in the 1970s, I had to learn not one but three Greek languages. First was the demotic parlance of everyday life. But at school, we were taught something different: “katharevousa” (“cleansed”), a language designed by 19th-century intellectuals to purify demotic from the cornucopia of borrowed Turkish, Slavic and Latin words.

Finally, we had to study ancient Greek, the language of our classical ancestors, the heroes of Marathon and Thermopylae. Most of us managed to learn none of the three, ending up mixing them in one grammatically anarchic jargon that communicated the confusion of our age.

Greek society suffers from an equal number of divisions.
First is the political class that for almost two centuries now has shown subservience to foreign masters. They discovered early that claiming to be Euripides’ relative goes a long way toward procuring handsome loans and diplomatic sympathies.

The geopolitical position of Greece, controlling shipping routes from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean, also helps. No wonder that modern Greece never became truly independent. It has always been much too easy to be dependent on foreign power and capital.
Becoming a member of the European Union and of the eurozone, only to amass a titanic debt, has been the latest chapter in this modern odyssey.
Second, the intellectuals dream of a truly Westernized Greece through some miracle of economic and social science. When the loan referendum was announced, most of them opposed it. Greece had to show that it belonged to the European family of nations, whatever that may mean. Rebellion was not to be tolerated, lest the country was kicked out of the euro, the symbol of Greek westernization.
Ultimately the intellectuals and politicians, with persuasion from angry European leaders and technocrats, had the referendum quashed. Besides, the invention of fantastical modern Greece demanded that its people, the third division of society, also remained imaginary.

Naturally, they are real as anything. They despise the loss of their sovereignty as well as the bitter medicine prescribed by their European brethren for their “rescue.” Austerity enforced by unelected officials from the European Commission, the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank is perceived as not remedy but punishment, a distasteful concept to the orthodox Greeks whose core value is mercy.
Burdened with the improbable weight of forefathers who supposedly laid the foundations of Western civilization, driven by strong cultural undercurrents that undermine the state’s authority, they long for the realization of a dream promised by their political class: that Greece can somehow be something different than the rest of the world, a utopia where mortals can live like Olympians.
Like the children of famous parents they could never possibly surpass, they bask in impossible desires, unable to summon the self-confidence to make their own way in the world.
The Greek financial crisis is a crisis of identity as much as anything else. Unless the people redefine themselves, this could become the perfect catastrophe: a country designed as a romantic theme park two centuries ago, propped up with loans ever since, and unable to adjust to the crude realities of 21st-century globalization.

George Zarkadakis is the author of the novel “The Island Survival Guide.”

LABERIA
17-11-15, 10:49
The Greek financial crisis is a crisis of identity as much as anything else. Unless the people redefine themselves, this could become the perfect catastrophe:a country designed as a romantic theme park two centuries ago, propped up with loans ever since, and unable to adjust to the crude realities of 21st-century globalization.

http://www.kathimerini.gr/330972/article/epikairothta/politikh/den-yparxoyn-idiwtika-aei-sthn-eyrwph
Professor Thanos Veremis, President of Greece's National Council of Education and founding member of the influential think-tank Hellenic Foundation for Defence and Foreign Policy (better known by its Greek acronym, ELIAMEP) made the following statement:

«Δυστυχώς είμαστε βαθιά συντηρητικοί ως κοινωνία. Αυτή η ομοιογένεια μας κάνει κακό. Αλλο τον 19ο αιώνα. Ευτυχώς τότε που ο Κοραής και οι άλλοι είχαν την έμπνευση να μας συνδέσουν με την αρχαία Ελλάδα - κι αυτό αποτέλεσε την κύρια ασχολία του νέου Κράτους. Υπήρχαν αρβανίτες, βλάχοι, σλάβοι. Ολοι αυτοί έπρεπε να γίνουν «ένα». Και έγιναν. Αλλά όχι και να πιστεύει σήμερα ότι είναι απόγονος του Περικλή. Τότε βοήθησε -αν και δεν αποφύγαμε έναν εμφύλιο- σήμερα δεν μας βοηθάει. Σήμερα δεν είμαστε μόνοι μας. Ζουν πολλοί άλλοι δίπλα μας. H κοινωνία πρέπει να προσαρμοστεί κι όχι να κλειστεί στον εαυτό της».
Gg translator.

"Unfortunately, we (Greeks) are deeply conservative as a society. This (ethnic) homogeneity has been harmful (to us). The situation during the 19th century was different. It was rather fortunate that at that time Koraes and others had the inspiration to connect us with Ancient Hellas (an undertaking) which became the main (pre)occupation of the newly born State. In those days, there were Arvanites, Vlachs and Slavs. All of them had to become (part of) one (national body). And so they became. But this is not to say that in this day and age (we/they) should be under the illusion that (we/they) are descendants of Pericles.This (assimilating process of ethnic/national homogenization) might have been helpful before -even though we could not avoid a civil war- but it does not help us nowadays. Today we are not alone. We are surrounded by many neighbors. The (Greek) society must adapt (to new realities) instead of remaining insular and introvert."

Boreas
17-11-15, 12:11
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HISTORY YOU LEARN IN ALBANIA

THE FIRST 2 HEAD EAGLE

WAS DEDICATED TO 'PATRIARCHA ECUMENICA .. NOVA ROMA' at around 360 AD if remember correct


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sNOYvNLoOL0/Vh1CBJrYOaI/AAAAAAABVJ4/f0SYHgQwgWE/s1600/1.jpg


BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY PATRIARCH that had 2 continents,

Europe and Asia

Jerusalem patriarch only Judea/Palestine/Cyprus
Antocheia Patriarch/Pope only ASIA
Alexandreia Patriarch/Pope only AFRICA
Roma Patriarch/pope only EUROPE

Nova Roma Patriarch EUROPE AND ASIA (East and West)


Now it is time to Greek tales. Please, just look at your nationalistic fair tales, then accuse others. All we are learning sided history in our public schools. Greece is not difference.

360AD??? You have to convince me.

The popular using of Duble-Head Eagle was in late East Roman Symbol(11th century).

And just after that Turks also started to use it very common.





BYZANTINE FLAGS

Yellow and black = Peace, law, order , given by God's grace through the Church, as Divine Mercy to Emperror
Yellow and red = presence of his majesty, imperial family, imperial officer, THE EMPEROR HIMSHELF

http://diakonima.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/7dyn-palaiologos-dynasty-eagle12.jpg

RED AND BLACK = WAR FLAG, ARMY FLAG, THE FLAG OF GENERAL Γ ΜΑΝΙΑΚΙΣ ARMY ONLY BY GENERALS

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vBIxHL09O6A/SGuzPJ4DdNI/AAAAAAAAAF8/hW7SqB-_sbw/s320/%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B7+% CF%83%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%B1+%CF%84%CE%BF%C F%85+%CE%B2%CF%85%CE%B6%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CE %BF%CF%85.bmp
The above is the relic of Enstradioti (venicians understand that term well) from almost 1400+ AD




UNDERSTAND IT,
THAT IS GLOBAL HISTORY AND TRUTH,
NOT THE IMAGINATION OF SOME ALBANIAN SCHOLARS

ALL THE ARMY OF MANIAKIS WERE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS,
AS ALL ARBANITES AND ALL ARBERESH BEFORE MOVE TO ITALY
CATHOLISISM ENTER ALBANIA WITH THE ANJU AND THE NORMANDS,
ISLAM ENTERED WITH YOUR GRAND FATHER BALLABAN PASHA

THE ABOVE ARE TRUTH THAT YOU CAN NOT DENY
KASTRIOTI WAS ORTHODOX AS MAJORITY OF THAT TIME ARBANITES AND THAT IS WHY THEY BURRY THERE,

The Flag of Krokodeilos KLADAS

http://www.digital-camera.gr/photos/polemiki_simaia_tou_ysteris_byzantinis_aytokratori as.jpg


UNDERSTAND IT ONCE AND FOR ALL

your Flag is symbol of Byzantium and orthodox church



In mt ATHOS (holy mountain of global orthodox churches)
they have one flag symbol of the Con/lis patriarch

https://hellasforce.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cf83cf85cf83cf83cf89cebccebf-cf84cebf-ceb1ceb3ceb9cebf-cebfcf81cebfcf83-ceb1cf80ceb1cebdcf84ceb1ceb5ceb9.jpg

neither Russian neither Serbian neither Bulgarian etc etc
Only the 2 head eagle symbol
you can see many flags there,
BUT MONKS FLAG IS THIS


and although I despite christianity and Byzantium
that is trouth[/QUOTE]

Yetos
17-11-15, 13:31
http://www.kathimerini.gr/330972/article/epikairothta/politikh/den-yparxoyn-idiwtika-aei-sthn-eyrwph
Professor Thanos Veremis, President of Greece's National Council of Education and founding member of the influential think-tank Hellenic Foundation for Defence and Foreign Policy (better known by its Greek acronym, ELIAMEP) made the following statement:

Gg translator.


BLAH BLAH BLAH

It hearts you right?

it must be very painfull to you that Greek language stayed Alive milleniums
no matter the effort of Romans Slavs Ottomans TurkoAlbans.

It must be very very painfull that nomatter the efforts to kick us from Epidamnos
to eliminate us at Orlov's
to exterminate us at 1821
WE ARE STILL HERE,
ALIVE AND STEADY AS GREEKS


sory,
I am not an Aromanian, which are parts of Albania
I am not a Slav which is part of Albania
I am not a Turk which is part of Albania
I am not a Persian which is part of Albania (Hadji-Bektashi)
I am not a Refugge
I suggest you to relax and accept it.
Bye bye

Yetos
17-11-15, 13:54
@ Βορεας

twin head eagle has to with Hettites in antique

then with Byzantine from where spread to Others,
until 7nth century Byzantium used the one head eagle,
after 7nth uses both symbols
Search the dynasty named as Ισαυροι, they were first adopted the 2 head
Probably from Armenia Flag of Mamikonian
and after 10nth the 2 head only,

but in Orthodox church there are some images
the symbol of man with 6 wings
the symbol of ox
the symbol of lion
the symbol of 2 head eagle,

anyway as official use of state it is 10nth century, you probably are right to that
but we find it unofficially at 8-9 century churches
and we know exist in church leitourgy from 3rd ecumenical congress if I am correct

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 15:13
you are funny,

you are a son of Ballaban pasha,
and you claim Kstrioti.
you are a Turk-Alban
but you use Catholic bishop as avatar,

what is next?
maybe you are an aromanian
but you claim to be Albanian?

thank you i needed that laugh.

at Skopjie there is also this Phillip

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8a1Tvb8YMEuAiewk6Y63RQVYFfDUX7 o1luiMsRMXHGhpXnlEIvw

so what?


AND ALSO THIS Dusan

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show//Images/Images.New/Places/Skopje/Sk%202014/Tzar%20Dushan%20Skopje%204x3.jpg

is at Skopjie,


Oh do not forget him Samuel

https://www.getlokal.mk/uploads/photo_gallery/91/32/13/260x195/450pxspomenik_na_tsar_samuil.jpg


So what?

tomorow they might have Merkel's Statue,
they are pluralistic culture, new so open,
and they spend huge amounts of money to decorate their city, which was a reason for big inner argue.
Does this change that you a descendant of Balaban pasha,
a statue at Skopjie?
You know well that I am not a Turk. Look at the mirror first. Indeed you are a Turk office Asia minor. Your ancestors migrated from there afterwards the exchange population between Turkey and greece. As everyone knows modern Greeks are dark skinned. Instead Albanians are light skinned. Look at mirror , you are a mix of Turks and Mongolians and Arabs. You should be thankful to arvanites, that you have a state. They saved you from the ottomans. Instead, do you have any hero of revolution who was not arberesh or vlach ?!! Your nation was not even a nation. It was invented by the British people of 19 century. And you are offending me personally many times. You know that it's so hard to find any Albanian who is a coward. Sooner or later Albanians are gonna rise Scanderbeg statues all over south epirus [emoji106]. Alexander the great was not a Greek. The statue of Scanderbeg in Skopje was built by the Albanians. The whole west Macedonia is Albanian. Did you read the recently posts of Laberia! Read to acknowledge your history. Albanians saved you tame Greeks from the assimilation of Turkey.

And stop offending the Albanian nation. They died for the Scanderbeg's flag.

Albanians, Celts and the Latin nations are the descendents of Pellasgians.

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 15:25
wow?

So Byzantine was not Roman? :laughing:

and the Latin in ALbania could it be Aromanian? :thinking:


just wondering :innocent:
The Byzantine state was not the true east Roman empire. The two heads were invented during the split of the empire. They represent the two capitals. So it's Roman flag. I am talking about the origin. The empire split at the end of the fourth century ad. Exactly at that moment we have the two heads of eagle. Before we had one.
Surely, today it's Albanian. Albanian are proud of that flag, no matter what is their personal religion. They don't care about some corrupted imams and priests. Scanderbeg was send by God to unified the Albanian nation. When the whole world would be riven and a mess, only Albanians would be unified under Scanderbeg's leadership. Albanians will follow his behavior and example, including, Sufi, Sunni, orthodox, catholic, protestant and atheists.

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 15:31
why you are a blond with blue eyes Normand? or Slav? from how it was call the Serb? Nem...
sorry can not remember
You know well what's the physical appearance of Albanians. They are different from the Greeks and Turks. Not dark skinned. Just imagine one moment if in south Greece you didn't had the arvanites.

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 15:50
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HISTORY YOU LEARN IN ALBANIA

THE FIRST 2 HEAD EAGLE

WAS DEDICATED TO 'PATRIARCHA ECUMENICA .. NOVA ROMA' at around 360 AD if remember correct


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sNOYvNLoOL0/Vh1CBJrYOaI/AAAAAAABVJ4/f0SYHgQwgWE/s1600/1.jpg


BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY PATRIARCH that had 2 continents,

Europe and Asia

Jerusalem patriarch only Judea/Palestine/Cyprus
Antocheia Patriarch/Pope only ASIA
Alexandreia Patriarch/Pope only AFRICA
Roma Patriarch/pope only EUROPE

Nova Roma Patriarch EUROPE AND ASIA (East and West)

BYZANTINE FLAGS

Yellow and black = Peace, law, order , given by God's grace through the Church, as Divine Mercy to Emperror
Yellow and red = presence of his majesty, imperial family, imperial officer, THE EMPEROR HIMSHELF

http://diakonima.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/7dyn-palaiologos-dynasty-eagle12.jpg

RED AND BLACK = WAR FLAG, ARMY FLAG, THE FLAG OF GENERAL Γ ΜΑΝΙΑΚΙΣ ARMY ONLY BY GENERALS

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vBIxHL09O6A/SGuzPJ4DdNI/AAAAAAAAAF8/hW7SqB-_sbw/s320/%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B7+% CF%83%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%B1+%CF%84%CE%BF%C F%85+%CE%B2%CF%85%CE%B6%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CE %BF%CF%85.bmp
The above is the relic of Enstradioti (venicians understand that term well) from almost 1400+ AD




UNDERSTAND IT,
THAT IS GLOBAL HISTORY AND TRUTH,
NOT THE IMAGINATION OF SOME ALBANIAN SCHOLARS

ALL THE ARMY OF MANIAKIS WERE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS,
AS ALL ARBANITES AND ALL ARBERESH BEFORE MOVE TO ITALY
CATHOLISISM ENTER ALBANIA WITH THE ANJU AND THE NORMANDS,
ISLAM ENTERED WITH YOUR GRAND FATHER BALLABAN PASHA

THE ABOVE ARE TRUTH THAT YOU CAN NOT DENY
KASTRIOTI WAS ORTHODOX AS MAJORITY OF THAT TIME ARBANITES AND THAT IS WHY THEY BURRY THERE,

The Flag of Krokodeilos KLADAS

http://www.digital-camera.gr/photos/polemiki_simaia_tou_ysteris_byzantinis_aytokratori as.jpg


UNDERSTAND IT ONCE AND FOR ALL

your Flag is symbol of Byzantium and orthodox church



In mt ATHOS (holy mountain of global orthodox churches)
they have one flag symbol of the Con/lis patriarch

https://hellasforce.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cf83cf85cf83cf83cf89cebccebf-cf84cebf-ceb1ceb3ceb9cebf-cebfcf81cebfcf83-ceb1cf80ceb1cebdcf84ceb1ceb5ceb9.jpg

neither Russian neither Serbian neither Bulgarian etc etc
Only the 2 head eagle symbol
you can see many flags there,
BUT MONKS FLAG IS THIS


and although I despite christianity and Byzantium
that is trouth
First don't insult me personally. My ancestors are not from Asia minor. Indeed yours are. All the inhabitants of Asia minor who were Christians migrated due to the exchange population from Asia minor, into Greek Macedonia and south epirus. They are just migrants of unknown ethnic origin. My old uncle has our tribe patriarchal lineage drawn in a paper in his home on highlands, from more than 400 years old. You are jealous of our ethnic roots, because you have unknown ethnic roots.

About the flag, see one of my previous posts. The Scanderbeg was not an orthodox. He was Albanian first. And he didn't care about your corrupted priests who opened the gates of Constantinople to the ottomans. He was Albanian and fought for his country till he died. What were doing at that time your grandfathers and your grandmothers? ! Yes, they were serving to the ottomans. I hope not in harems [emoji6]. You should look for your ethnic roots, of course if you have any.

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 15:54
sory
but in my language there is not the word islam, or muslim, only the word mohamet and mohametism and mohamethanoi or Turks the followers
Μωαμεθ Μωαμεθανισμος Μωαμεθανοι or Tourkoi not Islam neither muslim
so when someone turns to Mohamet we say he τουρκεψε (become a Turk)

when someone turns to Islam
we say he become Turk

so Turko-Polonos is the muslim Polish
Turko-Germanos is the muslim Deutsch
Turko-American are the Muslim of USA

with Turko-Alban means the Albanians who changed to Islam
sory but it has history 900 years that word, and 600 years history the term
in my language we do not have another word for he who turned to Islam, we say he become a Turk
even muslim Roma we call them τουρκογυφτοι
to distinguish them from others
Of course you don't have words [emoji23]. You are a fabricated nation. Your connection to the ancient hellenes it's a pour and false fabrication .

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 15:58
Sorry, in which language?

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2011/11/12/commentary/modern-greece-built-on-myth/#.Vf-uqn2xdR_
So we should call these guys, Kathaverousa people, not Greeks.

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 15:59
http://www.kathimerini.gr/330972/article/epikairothta/politikh/den-yparxoyn-idiwtika-aei-sthn-eyrwph
Professor Thanos Veremis, President of Greece's National Council of Education and founding member of the influential think-tank Hellenic Foundation for Defence and Foreign Policy (better known by its Greek acronym, ELIAMEP) made the following statement:

Gg translator.
Thank you for your sources. Always helpful. [emoji4] [emoji106]

Piro Ilir
17-11-15, 16:04
BLAH BLAH BLAH

It hearts you right?

it must be very painfull to you that Greek language stayed Alive milleniums
no matter the effort of Romans Slavs Ottomans TurkoAlbans.

It must be very very painfull that nomatter the efforts to kick us from Epidamnos
to eliminate us at Orlov's
to exterminate us at 1821
WE ARE STILL HERE,
ALIVE AND STEADY AS GREEKS


sory,
I am not an Aromanian, which are parts of Albania
I am not a Slav which is part of Albania
I am not a Turk which is part of Albania
I am not a Persian which is part of Albania (Hadji-Bektashi)
I am not a Refugge
I suggest you to relax and accept it.
Bye bye
You making all the time blah blah blah. Do you have and argument? You Greeko- Arab dark skinned. The Greeks are so dark skinned, probably they came from middle east. You are not even true Greeks, you are Arabs.