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Mars
20-11-15, 19:23
Hey there, I'd like to show you my Geno NextGeneration results. I'd like to know what you think about them.
My ethnic background is northern italian, from various provinces.
First, my "hominin ancestry" dropped dramatically (I was a Geno 2.0 participant, too): it was very high, around 3% (neanderthal) with the former Geno version, as it's now 1,2%, far less than the average (2.1).
My haplos are nothing particular, just in line with my region data (they found I've got a deep clade downstream to R-Z36, I opened a thread about it in another section of this site, while my maternal haplo is HV).
Autosomal data are the more surprising. NextGen scans dna very deeply, it's probably the most accurate commercial analysis. Here we go

64% southern european---------this is absolutely in line with other northern italians I know, who tested with Geno.
17% Asia Minor------------------it's apparently high, northern italians' A.M. is around 8%, on average
15% Scandinavia----------------not so common here, at least with these percentages...!
3% Britain and Ireland---------according to Geno, it's a pre-agricultural Europe component, associated to northern and western populations, with a peak in the british isles. I have a theory...
2% jewish diaspora------------this is a total surprise to me. I haven't any known jewish relative in my family tree.

WHAT I NOTICED: There is no western-central european component. It's around 30% in other northern italians. They often lack scandinavian, in any case it seems pretty high for a northern italian... About the "british" component: I think it may have to do with the megalithic cultures. I have ligurian heritage (among others), and ligurians have been associated to ancient Iberians.
Another hypothesis, it's part of the "northern" package inside my dna, along with scandinavian.
The 2% jewish is a newbie (both former Geno and FTDNA didn't detect it).

What's your opinion? Both about my results (given my ethnic background), and the new Nat Geo test.

Sile
20-11-15, 20:04
Hey there, I'd like to show you my Geno NextGeneration results. I'd like to know what you think about them.
My ethnic background is northern italian, from various provinces.
First, my "hominin ancestry" dropped dramatically (I was a Geno 2.0 participant, too): it was very high, around 3% (neanderthal) with the former Geno version, as it's now 1,2%, far less than the average (2.1).
My haplos are nothing particular, just in line with my region data (they found I've got a deep clade downstream to R-Z36, I opened a thread about it in another section of this site, while my maternal haplo is HV).
Autosomal data are the more surprising. NextGen scans dna very deeply, it's probably the most accurate commercial analysis. Here we go

64% southern european---------this is absolutely in line with other northern italians I know, who tested with Geno.
17% Asia Minor------------------it's apparently high, northern italians' A.M. is around 8%, on average
15% Scandinavia----------------not so common here, at least with these percentages...!
3% Britain and Ireland---------according to Geno, it's a pre-agricultural Europe component, associated to northern and western populations, with a peak in the british isles. I have a theory...
2% jewish diaspora------------this is a total surprise to me. I haven't any known jewish relative in my family tree.

WHAT I NOTICED: There is no western-central european component. It's around 30% in other northern italians. They often lack scandinavian, in any case it seems pretty high for a northern italian... About the "british" component: I think it may have to do with the megalithic cultures. I have ligurian heritage (among others), and ligurians have been associated to ancient Iberians.
Another hypothesis, it's part of the "northern" package inside my dna, along with scandinavian.
The 2% jewish is a newbie (both former Geno and FTDNA didn't detect it).

What's your opinion? Both about my results (given my ethnic background), and the new Nat Geo test.

Thanks

I too am north-italian ancestry and geno2 gave me German first, Tuscan second with a "south-european /Mediterranean " score of 48% ...............what was you geno2 results for this?

my Asia minor is the same as yours and matches myorigins ( Ftdna)...........actually noted by 2 different testers as either Trabazon or Lycian ( I always though it was Armenian or Kurd )


The difference might be only that you are northWest Italian and I am northEast italian

Angela
20-11-15, 20:12
Hey there, I'd like to show you my Geno NextGeneration results. I'd like to know what you think about them.
My ethnic background is northern italian, from various provinces.
First, my "hominin ancestry" dropped dramatically (I was a Geno 2.0 participant, too): it was very high, around 3% (neanderthal) with the former Geno version, as it's now 1,2%, far less than the average (2.1).
My haplos are nothing particular, just in line with my region data (they found I've got a deep clade downstream to R-Z36, I opened a thread about it in another section of this site, while my maternal haplo is HV).
Autosomal data are the more surprising. NextGen scans dna very deeply, it's probably the most accurate commercial analysis. Here we go

64% southern european---------this is absolutely in line with other northern italians I know, who tested with Geno.
17% Asia Minor------------------it's apparently high, northern italians' A.M. is around 8%, on average
15% Scandinavia----------------not so common here, at least with these percentages...!
3% Britain and Ireland---------according to Geno, it's a pre-agricultural Europe component, associated to northern and western populations, with a peak in the british isles. I have a theory...
2% jewish diaspora------------this is a total surprise to me. I haven't any known jewish relative in my family tree.

WHAT I NOTICED: There is no western-central european component. It's around 30% in other northern italians. They often lack scandinavian, in any case it seems pretty high for a northern italian... About the "british" component: I think it may have to do with the megalithic cultures. I have ligurian heritage (among others), and ligurians have been associated to ancient Iberians.
Another hypothesis, it's part of the "northern" package inside my dna, along with scandinavian.
The 2% jewish is a newbie (both former Geno and FTDNA didn't detect it).

What's your opinion? Both about my results (given my ethnic background), and the new Nat Geo test.

I wouldn't put too much credence in it. Just my two cents.

Sile
20-11-15, 20:21
I wouldn't put too much credence in it. Just my two cents.

considering the ftdna myorigins is being revamped early to mid 2016 due to the fact they find natgeno data far superior might be saying something. The "union" between the 2 is getting stronger.
Also throw in there, that fox will take the NatGen side of the company which is profitable and leave the "genetic" side to be "managed" by ftdna is also something to take note of.

also consider that 23andme genetic side is or will be going in decline, then in the end ftdna and maybe ancestry is the best on the commercial side..................unless one prefers the hobbists scenario

Mars
20-11-15, 23:07
Thanks

I too am north-italian ancestry and geno2 gave me German first, Tuscan second with a "south-european /Mediterranean " score of 48% ...............what was you geno2 results for this?

my Asia minor is the same as yours and matches myorigins ( Ftdna)...........actually noted by 2 different testers as either Trabazon or Lycian ( I always though it was Armenian or Kurd )


The difference might be only that you are northWest Italian and I am northEast italian

My Geno 2.0 are 51% mediterranean, 30% northern european and 18% south west asian (it's called Asia Minor now). The autosomal analysis is much deeper now...
My matches were tuscan and greek. It's pretty different now... Uhm I didn't get the part about the Asia Minor DNA... who told you that?
P.S. I'm northwestern, but my maternal grandpa was from Padua.

Sile
20-11-15, 23:11
My Geno 2.0 are 51% mediterranean, 30% northern european and 18% south west asian (it's called Asia Minor now). The autosomal analysis is much deeper now...
My matches were tuscan and greek. It's pretty different now... Uhm I didn't get the part about the Asia Minor DNA... who told you that?

thanks

others testers like Dnatribes etc etc .............unsure how accurate

but trabazon is Pontic Greek in North-East asia minor
and
Lycia is south west asia minor ( near rhodes ) ..................from one extreme to the other !!!


interesting you where Tuscan and Greek and I was German and Tuscan and only 3% is our difference.

Mars
20-11-15, 23:34
thanks

others testers like Dnatribes etc etc .............unsure how accurate

but trabazon is Pontic Greek in North-East asia minor
and
Lycia is south west asia minor ( near rhodes ) ..................from one extreme to the other !!!


interesting you where Tuscan and Greek and I was German and Tuscan and only 3% is our difference.
Yeah... These genetic analyses are always surprising. I think that Geno 2.0 wasn't that accurate in the autosomal field, anyway... Its "son" NextGen looks far better.
It would be interesting to understand what ancient population that lycian/pontic (sounds weird, indeed...) component belongs. Etruscans maybe?
I stumbled across a site, stating that an admixture event between a "cypriot-like" population (bearing a lot of Asia Minor?) and a "welsh-like" population (dominant in the area at that time), occured around year 66 BCE.
http://ec2-54-229-188-37.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com/admixture/2014-science-final/

Angela
21-11-15, 01:37
In its prior iteration, Nat Geno's scores for "Southwest Asian" in Europeans were, except for the Sardinians (8) and the Iberians (13), within a narrow band from 16 to 20.

These percentages come from the population averages published by NatGeno itself.

Danish 16
British, Finnish, Germans, Greeks, Tuscans 17
Egypt, Russia 18
Romania 19
Bulgaria 20

In the Near East, the Levantines (Lebanese) got about 26%

The Caucasus populations and those nearby got the highest scores:
Georgians 31
N.Caucasus 33
Iranians 42

It seemed to me at the time that they were tracking some sort of Caucasus component that was part of the Indo-European migrations. The new PUNT calculator seems to track something similar.

Perhaps it's CHG related, to use our new terminology? At any rate, given the numbers for the different European groups, it had nothing to do with migrations that affected Italians specifically.

Does the Next Gen iteration provide population averages? If the scores are similar for most Europeans then you can stop chasing the poor Etruscans again.

Oh, and the fact that they may soon be the only game in town doesn't mean that their analysis is any good. FTDNA has always done a terrible job with Italian genomesand if they're still showing Ashkenazi in Italians, their reference populations are still screwed up. The Ashkenazim should not be a reference population for the Near East, period. They're too mixed.

Mars
21-11-15, 01:46
Does the Next Gen iteration provide population averages? If the scores are similar for most Europeans then you can stop chasing the poor Etruscans again.

Asia Minor:
This component of your ancestry is associated with the border regions that separate southeastern Europe and southwestern Asia around the Mediterranean, Black, and Caspian Seas. This part of the world saw some of the earliest migrations and crossings after modern humans left Africa some 60,000 years ago.
Today, this component is found at highest frequency in people from Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and the Caucasus countries. Given that it rests in the historic and prehistoric crossroads of Europe and Asia, this component also occurs in varying frequency in other neighboring populations throughout the region.

Angela
21-11-15, 02:07
Asia Minor:
This component of your ancestry is associated with the border regions that separate southeastern Europe and southwestern Asia around the Mediterranean, Black, and Caspian Seas. This part of the world saw some of the earliest migrations and crossings after modern humans left Africa some 60,000 years ago.
Today, this component is found at highest frequency in people from Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and the Caucasus countries. Given that it rests in the historic and prehistoric crossroads of Europe and Asia, this component also occurs in varying frequency in other neighboring populations throughout the region.

Doesn't it sound the same as their prior "Southwest Asian" component?

Have they posted the population averages this time? As I said, on the prior iteration the British, Germans, Greeks and Tuscans had the same percentage for "Southwest Asian". Are the percentages for "Asia Minor" also within a narrow band?

Sile
21-11-15, 02:46
Asia Minor:
This component of your ancestry is associated with the border regions that separate southeastern Europe and southwestern Asia around the Mediterranean, Black, and Caspian Seas. This part of the world saw some of the earliest migrations and crossings after modern humans left Africa some 60,000 years ago.
Today, this component is found at highest frequency in people from Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and the Caucasus countries. Given that it rests in the historic and prehistoric crossroads of Europe and Asia, this component also occurs in varying frequency in other neighboring populations throughout the region.

did your new sample give you an extra SNP's as this new version tested an extra 5000 SNP's

Regio X
21-11-15, 03:16
Mars, may I ask you what are your myOrigins results?

Mars
21-11-15, 11:42
Doesn't it sound the same as their prior "Southwest Asian" component?

Have they posted the population averages this time? As I said, on the prior iteration the British, Germans, Greeks and Tuscans had the same percentage for "Southwest Asian". Are the percentages for "Asia Minor" also within a narrow band?
Yes, I think they match. As far as I know, there is no infographic about the reference populations of the new geno (at least, I haven't seen them yet). All I know is that Asia Minor has an east-west cline, decreasing in the westernmost parts of Europe; in the Iberian population graphic - that GenoNext displayed to show me the most similar population - it was around 4-5%.

@RegioX: FTDNA MyOrigins has very similar results, except the jewish diaspora that was displayed by GenoNext only. MyOrigins found the "scandinavian" at 16% for example, it's 15% in GenoNext. Asia Minor is the same in both analyses.

Regio X
23-11-15, 22:13
Thanks, Mars!


FTDNA has always done a terrible job with Italian genomesand if they're still showing Ashkenazi in Italians, their reference populations are still screwed up. The Ashkenazim should not be a reference population for the Near East, period. They're too mixed.FTDNA doesn't show me Ashkenazi %. It's correct, as far as I know. But I uploaded my data to DNA Land (http://www.nature.com/news/scientists-hope-to-attract-millions-to-dna-land-1.18514) and there it is. I came out with 8,85%. It places the cluster in Eastern Europe.
23andMe will likely confirm my FTDNA results.

Ricimer
24-11-15, 15:33
Grazie mille Mars for sharing your NextGeneration analysis. It is seen that the differences with Myorigins are minimal (same clusters and similar results forItalians). It can conclude that practically there are nearly the same test.

About yourresult, the only thing that I can say is FTDNA doesn’t work well for SouthEuropeans. I am a Spaniard of the South of Spain and my Myorigins results are99% Southern European and 1% North Africa. It barely reflects the Neolithicmigrations from Middle Eastern and nothing about Bronze/Iron Age migrationsfrom Central Europe.

By theother side, the Eurogenes calculators in Gedmatch works well and reflect thementioned migrations. I attach my K15 results if you want to compare:



#

Population

Percent



1

Atlantic

28.64



2

West_Med

21.00



3

North_Sea

18.50



4

East_Med

14.21



5

Baltic

8.13



6

Red_Sea

5.13



7

Northeast_African

1.73



8

Eastern_Euro

1.40

Mars
24-11-15, 20:38
Grazie mille Mars for sharing your NextGeneration analysis. It is seen that the differences with Myorigins are minimal (same clusters and similar results forItalians). It can conclude that practically there are nearly the same test.

About yourresult, the only thing that I can say is FTDNA doesn’t work well for SouthEuropeans. I am a Spaniard of the South of Spain and my Myorigins results are99% Southern European and 1% North Africa. It barely reflects the Neolithicmigrations from Middle Eastern and nothing about Bronze/Iron Age migrationsfrom Central Europe.

By theother side, the Eurogenes calculators in Gedmatch works well and reflect thementioned migrations. I attach my K15 results if you want to compare:



#
Population
Percent


1
Atlantic
28.64


2
West_Med
21.00


3
North_Sea
18.50


4
East_Med
14.21


5
Baltic
8.13


6
Red_Sea
5.13


7
Northeast_African
1.73


8
Eastern_Euro
1.40






Thanks for sharing. A guy from GenoNext wrote in a post (where? I don't remember...) that they'll allow raw data download as soon as possible... I'm eager to download them to see what Eurogenes and others have to say, though some calculators are flawed IMO.
A disappointing thing is that it's apparently impossible to access the infographic about the autosomal percentages in the reference populations of Geno Next... I don't know why.