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View Full Version : Which Germanic group is I1a but not I1a1, I1a2 or I1a3?



mencor
23-01-16, 16:06
My haplogroup is I1a but I do not have markers for CTS6364, S244/Z58 or S243/Z63 so my subclade is I1a* rather than I1a1, I1a2 or I1a3. I'm told that this is of Germanic origin but very rare. My surname is a corruption of an Anglo-Saxon place-name but this does not necessarily mean that I'm Anglo-Saxon. I could be from another Germanic group but that one ancestor eventually took the name of a Wessex village. As I am not in any of the three branches, could anyone please tell me to which group within the Germanic peoples I might belong?

RobertColumbia
23-01-16, 22:39
I don't think we can tell yet. Where in England is your surname from? If it is in the east or northeast, a Norse origin is quite plausible due to the history of the area, but even then, you really can't tell. Do you have any STR data or DNA matches?

Updated: I see you mentioned Wessex. We still don't really have enough information to identify tribes yet, but you are probably Anglo-Saxon or Norman given the geography.

Ukko
23-01-16, 22:50
There are four branches before DF29 in the tree at this time.

http://www.yfull.com/tree/I1/


Wessex also had Jutes that are a bit enigmatic.

RobertColumbia
23-01-16, 22:55
There are four branches before DF29 in the tree at this time.

http://www.yfull.com/tree/I1/


Wessex also had Jutes that are a bit enigmatic.

I think you mean that there are four branches under DF29. You are right. There are now more than three subclades to I-DF29, which is I1a. This means that mencor could still belong to one of the other ones. Were those tested for?

mencor
24-01-16, 10:22
All my paternal line ancestors are from Wessex and the early ones are all from Wiltshire in or close to the village from which my surname derives. My deep ancestry (SNPs) was tested by BritainsDNA and my recent ancestry (STRs) by Ancestry.com. Given my rare surname, I have been able to connect with my 14th(ish) cousins in the US and two of them also had Ancestry.com tests done. Their STRs are identical as they are close relatives and only two of mine differs from them. This is to be expected since our most recent common ancestor dates from the 15th century here in England. He and all his father-line ancestors dating back to the 12th century lived in or around the Wiltshire village.

The ISOGG 2016 tree for I1a only mentions the three branches I gave earlier so I'm curious to know what the fourth one is? I will investigate the other tree suggested. Thanks. Also, I will try to identify the two differing STRs but this may be a problem as Ancestry have abandoned their surname project service and my cousins' data was stored there.

Does this extra information shed any more light on my possible heritage?

mencor
25-01-16, 11:39
The yfull.com I1 tree does list six tiny branches before going on to list the three very large ones. These six are labelled as I-FGC1556, I-Y11205, I-A5697, I-Y14628, I-Y11252 & I-Y18697. However, none of my SNPs begin with FGC... or Y... Mine use different names beginning with CTS..., M..., PF..., S... etc. Are these two sets of SNPs different markers or is there some ID cross-referencing between them?

RobertColumbia
29-01-16, 05:42
The yfull.com I1 tree does list six tiny branches before going on to list the three very large ones. These six are labelled as I-FGC1556, I-Y11205, I-A5697, I-Y14628, I-Y11252 & I-Y18697. However, none of my SNPs begin with FGC... or Y... Mine use different names beginning with CTS..., M..., PF..., S... etc. Are these two sets of SNPs different markers or is there some ID cross-referencing between them?

The yfull.com tree shows alternative names to the right of each subclade. If you can't find any of your SNP's in that tree, then those SNP's are probably either higher up (e.g. for IJ, I, or I1) mutations or values that do not define a subclade.

mencor
02-02-16, 18:20
Thanks Robert. I have about 200 markers in my Y-DNA genetic signature for which I test positive. I have searched each SNP individually within the yfull.com tree. Three markers are of particular interest:-

S26361 defines I-S26361 [below I1a2a2] but I'm negative for I-Z58/S244 [I1a2]
CTS5139 defines I-Z97 [below I2a1a1a1] but I'm negative for M438 [I2]
S11330 defines I-L38 [= I2a2b] but I'm negative for M438 [I2]

I'm definitely I1a* and can't be in four different branches of the same tree. Any advice on how to interpret these findings? Thanks.

mwauthy
24-02-17, 16:35
Has there been any update? I'm also very curious how he could test positive for I-S26361 but test negative for I-Z58. On a lot of these DNA tests certain snps are presumed positive without ever having been tested.