Found near Berlin an exceptional mesolithic burial...

If I understand correctly the cemetery was in use for 1500 years, 8.5 - 7 ka during which period the LBK farmers arrived in the area. Then LBK farmers lived side by side with the autochtone HG, but they didn't blend.
Some of the HG were burried in the same way as Oleni Ostrov, who were J and R1a.

RussiaYuzhnyy Oleni Ostrov [I0061/UzOO 74]M5500-5000 BCR1a1*M459+, Page65.2+, M515-, M198-, M512-, M514-, L449-C1gDer Sarkissian 2011; Der Sarkissian 2013; Der Sarkissian 2014; Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015
RussiaYuzhnyy Oleni Ostrov [I0211/UzOO 40]M5500-5000 BCJPF4521, F2114, CTS5934, CTS7028, CTS7229, FGC1599, YSC0000228, CTS11291U4aMathieson 2015


Can't wait to see what DNA will turn up here.
 
National Geographic wrote about this:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...-europe-baby-upright-germany-hunter-gatherer/

Also here:

https://bonesdontlie.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/upright-burial-a-mesolithic-and-modern-phenomenon/

And here is the whole paper:

http://www.quartaer.eu/pdfs/2015/2015_06_terberger.pdf

Edit:

Strange, the last link is now just an abstract, but it used to be the whole paper several days ago.

Too bad, that I didn't download it. But fortunately there is "Web cache", it saved the old version:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...er.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=pl&client=opera

========================

Edit:

And the whole paper is also available here (so no need to use the web cached version):

https://www.academia.edu/22252794/S...te_at_Groß_Fredenwalde_Brandenburg_NE_Germany

One of hunters buried there (feature 1/4 - tthe most recent burial from that site):

Terberger.png


Fig. 25. Chronology of the Mesolithic-Neolithic in northern Central Europe with dating of Groß Fredenwalde and other burial sites (afterGrünberg 2000; Zagorska 2006; Frydendal Nielsen 2012). Solid line: dated by a series of radiocarbon dates; dotted line: estimated periodby isolated radiocarbon dates or other evidence:

Chronology.png
 
just a taught ..

neolithic Europe was mainly haplo G2a and little I
chalcolithic haplo I became more frequent again
could this be because very few HG were sampled during neolithic Europe?
appearantly HG didn't dissapear during neolithic , they survived near lakes / rivers with a lot of fish
 
just a taught ..

neolithic Europe was mainly haplo G2a and little I
chalcolithic haplo I became more frequent again
could this be because very few HG were sampled during neolithic Europe?
appearantly HG didn't dissapear during neolithic , they survived near lakes / rivers with a lot of fish

Yes, it seems that HGs didn't get extinct, but they also didn't immediately mix with newcomers. The process of melting with each other of those populations took a lot of time. That's why Early Neolithic had no Euro HG ancestry, despite living side by side with them.

Only over time HG ancestry was gradually increasing as assimilation and intermarriages gradually continued.

Also modern Sardinians - who are claimed to be identical with ENF - are in fact around 1/3 WHG. Of course, already Anatolian ENF had some WHG admixture, but only 10-15%, IIRC. So even Sardinians absorbed quite a lot of additional WHG ancestry in Europe.

This is only confirmed by fact, that I2 is actually the most common Y-DNA haplogroup in modern Sardinia.

There can be the same problem later on - for example the steady decline of Steppe admixture from Corded Ware samples to Unetice samples (see the graph below) could be caused by intermarriages between original Corded Ware immigrants and local groups.

Even various samples of Corded Ware were not autosomally homogeneous (see for example Karsdorf LN):

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...sation-as-well?p=474879&viewfull=1#post474879

In another thread Alan suggested, that Unetice "replaced" Corded Ware (because Unetice had less of Steppe ancestry).

But IMHO Corded Ware immigrants gradually mixed with some local group, forming what we see as Unetice auDNA:

Yamnaya_Admixture.png
 
Yes, it seems that HGs didn't get extinct, but they also didn't immediately mix with newcomers. The process of melting with each other of those populations took a lot of time. That's why Early Neolithic had no Euro HG ancestry, despite living side by side with them.

Only over time HG ancestry was gradually increasing as assimilation and intermarriages gradually continued.

Also modern Sardinians - who are claimed to be identical with ENF - are in fact around 1/3 WHG.

Far to high that was before we knew that Anatolian farmers already had allot of WHG like ancestry. Sardinians can be modeled as 4/5 EEF and 1/5 WHG.

So some H&G indeed survived. Like 20% average in all Europeans is WHG derived while another chunk of it is/came via EHG.
 
appearantly HG didn't dissapear during neolithic , they survived near lakes / rivers with a lot of fish

Indeed, but they continued to live as hunters (and fishers) for the next 2,000 years since the arrival of farmers. They also mixed only very slowly and very gradually with farmers, over the course of those 2,000 years. It shows, that integration is not an easy thing.

But let us hope, that the current wave of Muslim refugees coming to Europe will fully integrate by year 4016 AD... :)
 
Alan said:
Sardinians can be modeled as 4/5 EEF and 1/5 WHG.

This really depends on what kind of calculator you are using.

Here a Sardinian user - nick Askra - claimed that Sardinians are 34,5% WHG (he did not give sources, though):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...sting-things&p=3850318&viewfull=1#post3850318

Here FireHaired explained, that depending on which calculator is being used, the % results for WHG are different:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...sation-as-well?p=474903&viewfull=1#post474903

So only results coming from the same calculator are comparable with each other.

For example, in ANE K7 calculator WHG scores are always higher than in ANE K8 calculator.

Apparently admixture estimates isn't an exact science (% results depend on which source populations are compared?).

we knew that Anatolian farmers already had allot of WHG like ancestry.

How much WHG did they have ??? Usually a figure of 10-15% is given (which is not really a lot).

This also corresponds well to frequency of I2 haplogroup among them (2 out of 16 samples - or 12,5%).

We must compare levels of WHG using the same autosomal calculator for each of compared populations.
 
It would be nice to have a calculator testing WHG versus EHG versus SHG parts of HG.

Those were really three different groups (even though partially of similar origin).

Probably some modern populations have more WHG admixture, others have more EHG.
 
Like 20% average in all Europeans is WHG derived while another chunk of it is/came via EHG.

Thanks! But what is the source for these figures?

Sardinians can be modeled as 4/5 EEF and 1/5 WHG.

Yes, as 4/5 EEF. But EEF is based on Early Neolithic genomes from Europe.

If we model Sardinians as Anatolian Farmer + WHG, then it is 2/3 + 1/3.

EEF from Europe already had more WHG admixture than Anatolian ENF.
 
Far to high that was before we knew that Anatolian farmers already had allot of WHG like ancestry. Sardinians can be modeled as 4/5 EEF and 1/5 WHG.

So some H&G indeed survived. Like 20% average in all Europeans is WHG derived while another chunk of it is/came via EHG.

I don't think the NW Anatolians were the source of European neolithic, but both probably came frome the same area.
afaik Gravettian (and WHG/SHG admixture) spread along the Anatolian coast upto the the caves near Antalya prior to 17 ka, but not further
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belbaşı
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karain_Cave
I think the neolithic people coming to Europe came from further east
They had the opportunity to mix on the way, but did they?
The mesolithic from Belbasi would have turned into proto-neolithic, I guess something similar like in Francchti cave on the peleponesos where HG came in contact allready 13 ka (!) with fishermen who had obsidian from Melos and pulses seeds from Anatolia with them
recently there was published something about growing of pulses in Galilea in early neolithic
some proto-neolithic people (Natufian fishermen?) may allready have started to mix with some WHG as early as 13 ka
(same people visited Cyprus 12.5 ka)
 

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