Guess the ethnicity of this lady

[Tomenable]

http://oql.pl/foto/wedrujaca03.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/57cebeb1161d83f557622894238758ca/tumblr_o0yk29lJdt1qztknio1_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/5de5ce0b35250ded35c60df30fe86b9b/tumblr_o0yk13TJaw1qztknio1_1280.jpg

[Ziober]

Beautyful. Protocelt?

[Angela]

She could be a relative of mine...I don't claim to have ever been as beautiful, but if her eyes and mouth were smaller, it could be me, because that's my face shape, chin, forehead, even nose. She even has my teeth and small flat ears and long neck. I'm just fairer, and as I said, I don't have those big eyes and full mouth.

So...Italian? If not Italian then maybe Ukrainian, or even Ashkenazi?

She's so beautifully melancholy.

[Ziober]

she reminde me a dream about Jacob's wife....

[Boreas]

https://www.tradesy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Frida-Portrait-Thumbnail.jpg

for a second, she reminds me Frida

[Maleth]

Can fit in a number of Southern European countries in my opinion

[Angela]

Can fit in a number of Southern European countries in my opinion

Not just southern European countries. In fact, I don't think she has a stereotypical Mediterranean vibe if you just look at the features. It's just her dark coloring that is throwing it off, I think, and part of that may be the photo, as I think she has some freckles. If she is Ashkenazi, she's not typical from my experience, and I've lived among them all my adult life.
Eastern European:

http://ocdn.eu/images/pulscms/YWI7MDYsZGYsMTRk/af880f8dcfe2e84b4a308bec1c3e9420.jpg

I know what Ziober was getting at-Northwestern European:

http://www.cinemagraphe.com/_imagery/_kay_francis/kay-francis-blue.jpg
http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/10/24/b4befac0-4934-4ac1-acf0-c228bf2fb661/resize/620x465/7b79704a1610a86514f1872e448bd833/maureen-oharahow-green-was-my-valley.jpg
Jeanette McDonald:
http://www.things-and-other-stuff.com/images/MASTOSprofiles/macdonald/1940-01-cinelandia.jpg

I think she's more beautiful than any of them.

I think what happens is that in every era there's a "look" that is found attractive, and photographers gravitate to that "look", perhaps subconsciously, and so in certain time periods if you look at photos you think that a certain cast of features must have been extremely common, when in fact that may not have been the case.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/3142907327_be7d79802e.jpg


@Boreas,

Yes, I think she looks a bit like Frida Kahlo, but I think it's also artificially heightened by the unplucked brows.

[Tomenable]

Thank you for all the responses. Angela got it right: ;)


or even Ashkenazi?

Yes, Polish-Jewish (and Jews in Poland were mostly Ashkenazi).

Pictures were taken in 1939 in Kutno, a city with a large Jewish community until WW2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutno


if she is Ashkenazi, she's not typical from my experience

Probably not typical indeed, but Ashkenazi Jewish nonetheless.

Would you say she looks more typically Sephardic, or Non-Jewish at all?

I asked about her on an anthropological forum, and I got six responses, they were quite mixed:

- Alpinized Pontid imo
- 2nd picture eastern, uralid vibes
- Bulgaria?
- Pontid + Jew
- Predominantly Pontid, but with something Middle Eastern maybe.
- Classic med.

Of course each ethnicity (also Jews) includes people of many phenotypes. There is a 1933 book (a collective work written mostly by Jewish authors), titled (in English translation): "Jews in the Reborn Poland. Social, economic, educational and cultural activity".

In chapter 34. (written by Henryk Szpidbaum) the following structure of phenotypes among Polish Jews is given:

Western Asiatic* - 34.99%
Oriental - 8.32%
Mediterranean - 9.16%
Alpine - 9.99%
Dinaric - 8.33%
Nordic - 5.82%
East Baltid - 4.16%
Light Armenoid - 6.66%
Broad-faced Armenoid - 6.66%
Light Dinaric - 2.5%
Broad-faced Dinaric - 3.33%
other - fractions of a percent

Pontid is not mentioned, but AFAIK, Pontid is an eastern subtype of Mediterranean phenotype.

*Western Asia: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Western_Asia_(orthographic_projection).svg

[Angela]

She doesn't look Sephardic to me or any kind of Near Eastern or East Med. I don't think there's anything particularly Ashkenazi about her either, although there are minority more central European looking Ashkenazi. I would totally believe it if people told me she was eastern European of some variety, especially from closer to the Balkans. As I said, we also have people who look like her in terms of face shape etc. in northern Italy, but they're fairer.

As to the guesses you got, I don't go on anthrofora. It's certainly not the place to go for real anthropological analysis in my opinion. They make up a lot of this based on agendas from what I can remember.

I just looked up Pontid. This is what it showed. It's not a bad guess, but her eyes and mouth are both larger.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2i043n6.jpg

We can't see her profile or her head shape so it's difficult to tell. I'd go with just a softer Atlanto-Med with some Alpine, so I guess that would approximate what some people would call Pontid? If she was ten or fifteen pounds heavier (making her face slightly broader) and fairer, people might say Atlantid.

I'm not going to ask what happened to her. She's haunting enough as she is...

[Hauteville]

I know who is her. She looks almost pan-European imo.

[Hauteville]

In chapter 34. (written by Henryk Szpidbaum) the following structure of phenotypes among Polish Jews is given:


Western Asiatic* - 34.99%
Oriental - 8.32%
Mediterranean - 9.16%
Alpine - 9.99%
Dinaric - 8.33%
Nordic - 5.82%
East Baltid - 4.16%
Light Armenoid - 6.66%
Broad-faced Armenoid - 6.66%
Light Dinaric - 2.5%
Broad-faced Dinaric - 3.33%
other - fractions of a percent


What phenotype he means for Western Asiatic exactly?Armenoid?

[Tomenable]

What phenotype he means for Western Asiatic exactly?Armenoid?

Yes, Armenoid:

http://docslide.pl/documents/struktura-rasowa-zydow-polskich.html

Szpidbaum wrote (originally in Polish):

"Armenoid, more validly called Western Asiatic".

So Armenoid proper was the predominant phenotype of Polish Jews.

If we add also "Light Armenoid" and "Broad-faced Armenoid", then he classified 48.31% as Armenoid-like.

I guess this explains the "Jewish nose" thing (it is in fact Armenoid nose).

[Angela]

Well, she's definitely not Armenoid looking. Pan European is closer to the mark.

I don't know how I could have forgotten these women.

Jaclyn Smith has a similar face shape, although broader across the cheekbones.
I absolutely loved the way she looked, and I would have loved it even if she didn't have half her nose removed.
http://i.imgur.com/z2y5z2v.jpg

Another fairer version: Irina Antonenko
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/458565720867995648/ecK_jZ9Q.jpeg

A fairer, Italian version: Alida Valli
http://www.peoplequiz.com/images/bios/alida-valli.jpg-13007.jpg

Then there's Gemma Arterton, who when scrubbed up resembles her, I think, even though her face is broader and her chin is sharper.

http://www.madeindagenhamthemusical.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Gemma-Arterton.jpg


The only Jewish actress I can think of who has a somewhat similar look is Gal Gadot:
http://images.latinpost.com/data/images/full/4321/gal-gadot.jpg?w=600

[Hauteville]

There are a lot of terms to call Armenoid. Lundmans called it Hither Asiatic, while many others use Anatolid.

[Tomenable]

Eran Elhaik et al. have just published (03.03.2016) a new paper:

http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/03/gbe.evw046.abstract

He has revised his previous Khazar hypothesis and now claims that Ashkenazim originated in Anatolia.

This is his new suggested Ashkenazi Proto-Homeland, in North-Eastern Anatolia, very close to Armenia:

http://s15.postimg.org/o4mv73yhn/Aszkenaz.jpg

[Hauteville]

This can explain why many Jews have typical Anatolid/Armenoid features.

[srdceleva]

very beautiful women, firs thing i thought when i looked at her, is that there is something eastern european about her but something different as well. The picture where she smiles looks very similar to many women in slovakia even but her eyes are very dark and not so common in slovakia. Polish Jewish makes alot of sense. She could pass for a number of countries though. Italian, greek, even bulgarian or armenian. Very interesting look.