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Maciamo
07-03-16, 21:10
Just saw this in the news: Was Viking ruler Rollo Danish or Norwegian? (http://Was Viking ruler Rollo Danish or Norwegian?)


Rollo was the founder and first ruler of Normandy, the Count of Rouen and the great-great-great grandfather of William the Conqueror, the first Norman King of England. While Norwegian-Icelandic history holds that Rollo is the same man also known as Ganger Hrólf and hails from Norway, some Danish historians claim that Rollo is from Denmark.

In January, French officials granted a Norwegian application to open the tomb of Rollo’s grandson and great-grandson, Richard I of Normandy (also known as Richard the Fearless) and Richard II, also called Richard the Good.

When researchers opened the tomb, a sarcophagus in the floor of a Fécamp monastery, on Monday they found Richard the Good’s lower jaw with eight teeth. A DNA analysis is likely to be completed by the autumn and will be presented in cooperation with the French authorities.

This means that we should get the Y-DNA haplogroup of the Viking rulers of Normandy, from Rollo to William the Conqueror. Looking forward to it.

Tomenable
07-03-16, 23:13
What is the most likely candidate? I1, U106, Z284? Anything else?

Sile
08-03-16, 08:17
Just saw this in the news: Was Viking ruler Rollo Danish or Norwegian? (http://Was Viking ruler Rollo Danish or Norwegian?)



This means that we should get the Y-DNA haplogroup of the Viking rulers of Normandy, from Rollo to William the Conqueror. Looking forward to it.

he is a site , for whats its worth that states Rollo line to be R-P312

http://originhunters.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/exploring-rollos-roots-dna-leads-way.html

Brennos
08-03-16, 08:54
he is a site , for whats its worth that states Rollo line to be R-P312

http://originhunters.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/exploring-rollos-roots-dna-leads-way.html

It would be interesting to know the way they took to state that all those lines are related documentally. They can't begin with surnames...surnames are susceptible to change in time and space.

Maleth
08-03-16, 09:13
he is a site , for whats its worth that states Rollo line to be R-P312

http://originhunters.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/exploring-rollos-roots-dna-leads-way.html

R is very frequent (maybe not P312 as such) in both Denmark and Norway so it will not be a surprise.

Tomenable
08-03-16, 12:38
If they want to know where was Richard I from, they must also test his autosomal DNA - that's essential too.

As for Y-DNA, there is a thing called "Non-Paternity Event" (cheating wife, etc.) which could happen to one of Rollo's descendants.

If Richard I was really P312 then it is essential to determine what subclade it was. If this subclade turns out to be Scandinavian-specific then OK, but if it turns out to be Non-Scandinavian then it will most likely mean that between Rollo and Richard there was a Non-Paternity Event and Richard I was in fact not Rollo's biological descendant - consequently it will mean that William the Conqueror was also not Rollo's biological descendant.

Brennos
08-03-16, 16:51
If they want to know where was Richard I from, they must also test his autosomal DNA - that's essential too. As for Y-DNA, there is a thing called "Non-Paternity Event" (cheating wife, etc.) which could happen to one of Rollo's descendants. If Richard I was really P312 then it is essential to determine what subclade it was. If this subclade turns out to be Scandinavian-specific then OK, but if it turns out to be Non-Scandinavian then it will most likely mean that between Rollo and Richard there was a Non-Paternity Event and Richard I was in fact not Rollo's biological descendant - consequently it will mean that William the Conqueror was also not Rollo's biological descendant. The NPE event rate is a very tiny percentage. If Richard I is really R-P312, then I would see it confirmed by the documental reconstructed genealogical tree of all the lines tested in that blogger's page. If, and I underline if, it is possible to see clearly when the lines branched (I doubt it, because at that time is nearly impossible to have many documental sources), then we can rule out or not a Y-DNA haplogroup.

Angela
08-03-16, 17:12
Isn't the NPE rate 1% per generation? We're talking an awful lot of generations since Rollo's time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Rates_of_non-paternity_in_single_births

Look at the situation with Richard of York. He was G2a. The living descendants of his ancestor Edward I are different varieties of R1b. It's only speculation as to where the NPEs occurred, but obviously some did occur.

Maciamo
08-03-16, 17:23
What is the most likely candidate? I1, U106, Z284? Anything else?

I2a2 is also high in Scandinavia, although it is low in Normandy. However R1a is even lower in Normandy. Both I2a2a and R1a are not especially high in southern England either, so I1 or R1b are statistically more likely. But who knows, it could very well be a rarer Scandinavian lineage like Q1a, G2a, E1b1b or J2. Unlike relatively pure Mesolithic, Neolithic and EBA Steppe cultures, there is no way to logically deduce Rollo's Y-DNA beyond that.

Ukko
08-03-16, 23:20
It will be I1 or N1c.

redeyednewt
09-03-16, 05:04
I'm not sure what it will be. I have heard he was from Norway, or Denmark, does anyone know which country is correct?

Sile
09-03-16, 07:06
the new Ydna predictor for Rollo gives




Haplogroup
Probability
Fitness



1

R1b L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41

52.17
99.77


2
R1b DF27>Z196>L176.2
15.88
95.87




with the STR supplied

Maciamo
09-03-16, 10:04
the new Ydna predictor for Rollo gives




Haplogroup
Probability
Fitness


1
R1b L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41
52.17
99.77


2
R1b DF27>Z196>L176.2
15.88
95.87



with the STR supplied

Both haplogroups are quite unlikely for a 9th century Viking. R1b-L21 was almost certainly brought to Scandinavia from the British Isles by the Vikings, so it is not a native Viking haplogroup. L176.2 is mostly French and Spanish. Both haplogroups could have been native to Normandy before the Viking invasions.

R1b is the most likely haplogroup for Rollo's lineage, but only R1b-U106, R1b-L238 or possibly even R1b-U152 (considering that the Proto-Celts mixed to some extent with the Proto-Germanics in Germany before they moved to Scandinavia in the Bronze Age).

Despite the higher statistical likelihood for R1b, my hunch is that Rollo's line will be I1, and if so then I1-L22.

Brennos
09-03-16, 10:14
Isn't the NPE rate 1% per generation? We're talking an awful lot of generations since Rollo's time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Rates_of_non-paternity_in_single_births Look at the situation with Richard of York. He was G2a. The living descendants of his ancestor Edward I are different varieties of R1b. It's only speculation as to where the NPEs occurred, but obviously some did occur. Obviously it occurred but, as I stated before, we have a rich documental source about the kings of England, then why not test other branches and ancient remains?

MOESAN
13-03-16, 17:16
Both haplogroups are quite unlikely for a 9th century Viking. R1b-L21 was almost certainly brought to Scandinavia from the British Isles by the Vikings, so it is not a native Viking haplogroup. L176.2 is mostly French and Spanish. Both haplogroups could have been native to Normandy before the Viking invasions.



I am not as sure as you R1b-L21 could not have been in Western Scandinavia before Vikings raids in the Great isles. Not an affirmation, only a doubt. I think possible some kind proto-Celts put their feet in Scandinavia at bronze Age. Only old DNA can answer us, even if at first sight your answer seems very reasonable.

Greying Wanderer
13-03-16, 22:42
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo


The 13th century Icelandic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland) sagas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga), Heimskringla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimskringla) and Orkneyinga Saga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkneyinga_Saga), remember him as Hrólf the Walker ("who was so big that no horse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse)could carry him", hence his byname of Ganger-Hrólf

So Jotun ancestry :)

(j/k)

Degredado
16-11-16, 03:17
Nothing yet?

Ukko
09-12-16, 19:41
Nothing yet?

Propably re-testing again and again.

Dibran
03-03-17, 16:57
Bump.

Any news?

IronSide
12-03-17, 17:57
What the hell are they doing, a year ?? maybe they failed

mwauthy
22-03-17, 14:56
After testing the age of the teeth and bones scientists realized they could not belong to Rollo's grandson and great grandson. I think one of the bones tested 2000 years old. So we won't know anytime soon what their haplogroups were.

leperrine
22-03-17, 18:40
My paternal ancestry is Norman.


My Y-DNA Haplogroup is J2a1h2a1 [J2-L70 (J2-L397, J2-L398)]


My Paternal Ancestry:


I'm a direct male descendant of Daniel "The Huguenot" Perrin. All documented. Search his name and you can find a genealogy book one of my relatives wrote in 1910. TheIslandWiki website has our genealogy too.

I'm currently going through the book "Armorial of Jersey" written by James Bertrand Payne in 1859 documenting the families and genealogies of these families. My family is in there, but still making all the connections. I've only been studying my family history for a few months now. I think Jersey released new documents. I'm hoping to make further connections in due time.

This is as far back I can go currently with documented proof.

Comte Du Perrin
Pierre Perrin
Daniel Perrin "The Huguenot"
Henry Perrin
John Perrine
Peter Perrine
James Mount Perrine
Isaac H. Perrine
Raymond Ely Perrine (Great Grandfather)
Lyman Perrine (My Grandfather)
Lyman Eric Perrine (My Father)
Lyman Eric Perrine Jr (Me)


He was one of the first European Settlers in New York. 1665.
He came from the Isle of Jersey and is of Norman/French ancestry.
My family was Seigneurs of Guernsey and Rozel.
My ancestors were also Knights that helped William the Conqueror take the throne.


It's possible my J2 comes from the French(Frank) part of my ancestry. Hard to determine the further back you go. In every reference to my ancestors though they are described as Normans.

Voyager
30-03-17, 10:08
My paternal ancestry is Norman.


My Y-DNA Haplogroup is J2a1h2a1 [J2-L70 (J2-L397, J2-L398)]


My Paternal Ancestry:


I'm a direct male descendant of Daniel "The Huguenot" Perrin. All documented. Search his name and you can find a genealogy book one of my relatives wrote in 1910. TheIslandWiki website has our genealogy too.

I'm currently going through the book "Armorial of Jersey" written by James Bertrand Payne in 1859 documenting the families and genealogies of these families. My family is in there, but still making all the connections. I've only been studying my family history for a few months now. I think Jersey released new documents. I'm hoping to make further connections in due time.

This is as far back I can go currently with documented proof.

Comte Du Perrin
Pierre Perrin
Daniel Perrin "The Huguenot"
Henry Perrin
John Perrine
Peter Perrine
James Mount Perrine
Isaac H. Perrine
Raymond Ely Perrine (Great Grandfather)
Lyman Perrine (My Grandfather)
Lyman Eric Perrine (My Father)
Lyman Eric Perrine Jr (Me)


He was one of the first European Settlers in New York. 1665.
He came from the Isle of Jersey and is of Norman/French ancestry.
My family was Seigneurs of Guernsey and Rozel.
My ancestors were also Knights that helped William the Conqueror take the throne.


It's possible my J2 comes from the French(Frank) part of my ancestry. Hard to determine the further back you go. In every reference to my ancestors though they are described as Normans.
Have you some French Norman cousins with your autosomal DNA? Did you try Gedmatch ?

stevenarmstrong
08-04-17, 23:50
Have we come any closer to discovering the answer to this question? R-P312 could make sense if this subclade was in fact distributed by the Bell Beaker Culture. I am downstream from this subclade, and my oral family history states that our most distant known paternal ancestor came to Scotland from Denmark. Further and deeper testing of these ancient and near-ancient samples would go a long way to elucidating our true origins.

PaleoRevenge
17-04-17, 03:36
Rollo was said to be a tall heavy man that no horse could not carry. I'm going with haplogroup I.

redeyednewt
28-05-19, 05:56
Are there any updates about this?

paul333
29-05-19, 22:05
Rollo was said to be a tall heavy man that no horse could not carry. I'm going with haplogroup I.

The Horse that the viking age used were very small, they are still around in Iceland today. It would not be too difficult, to not be able to ride such a horse if a person was tall, In Iceland even today riding those type horses, shows that many men have to lean backwards to have there feet clear.
Rollo,s nickname makes common sense, as he was believed to be tall. It was possibly the same sized Horse also used in Anglo Saxon England. The Normans no doubt began to use larger Arabian type horses, acquired through there experience's on their travels, and adapted their fighting skills accordingly. It, was possibly this 'difference' that resulted in the Norman victory at Hastings, by his descendant William.

Regarding the Update, Dna etc bones. I recall they had some problems, and were unable to prove a connection to Rollo.

spruithean
29-05-19, 22:48
Are there any updates about this?

I'm curious too. It'd be nice to have some aDNA from Normandy, and more specifically from some of Scandinavian descended population too.

kingjohn
30-05-19, 19:17
to make thing interesting i will go with r1a :)

spruithean
30-05-19, 19:52
to make thing interesting i will go with r1a :)

Sure! But lets throw some I1 in there too!

markod
30-05-19, 20:00
Shocking Discovery – The Skeletons Are Much OlderForensic experts from Centre for GeoGenetics in Copenhagen, Denmark and University of Oslo, Norway have now examined the two corpses in the burial and released the results.
The results are disappointing, not only for the Danes, but also for the Norwegians. The two skeletons in the sarcophagus are in no way related to Viking Rollo. They are much older!
“These skeletons have nothing to do with Rollo. The skeletons in the sarcophagus are in fact much older, one from 250-300 years before our era and the other from around the year 700, that is, before the Viking era, “ says historian and project initiator Sturla Ellingvåg from Foundation explico.
The condition of the skeletons were unfortunately very poor, and researchers were unable to obtain DNA.
What is really interesting is that the elder skeleton is actually from 3rd Century BC!
“This has caused quite a stir, and since the elder is from 1-2 centuries before the Roman conquest of the area, we are speculating if this could be the relic of a early Celtic chieftain. At the moment, we have sent in a tooth for Strontium Isotop analysis, and we expect to know more about this issue soon,” Ellingvåg says.

http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/01/22/mystery-of-viking-ruler-rollo-continues-surprising-discovery-in-ancient-grave/