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Twilight
11-03-16, 03:37
There is a Mesolithic monolith that was discovered in thePantelleria bank; 37 miles south of the Sicilian coast. The Monolith iscomposed of calcirudites whom have been radiocarbondated between 8000-7500 BC. According to some articles, this discovery hintsthat civilization might have originated in what is now a part of the MediterraneanSea and the Sicilian Channel Archepellico was teaming with Mesolithic people(Iberomaurisan/Epigrevitian sacred space? Early Light house?). I think it’s interesting to note that thismonolith is also located where haplogroup E is said to have crossed to get toEurope; that most likely acted as a land bridge.
Sources: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#ice_age (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#ice_age) .
There are so many articles that I cansource that I’m going to put a google link.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sicilian+monolith (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sicilian+monolith)

I'm curious to see what you guys think and where we can move forward with this ^_^.

Maleth
11-03-16, 13:01
There is a Mesolithic monolith that was discovered in thePantelleria bank; 37 miles south of the Sicilian coast. The Monolith iscomposed of calcirudites whom have been radiocarbondated between 8000-7500 BC. According to some articles, this discovery hintsthat civilization might have originated in what is now a part of the MediterraneanSea and the Sicilian Channel Archepellico was teaming with Mesolithic people(Iberomaurisan/Epigrevitian sacred space? Early Light house?). I think it’s interesting to note that thismonolith is also located where haplogroup E is said to have crossed to get toEurope; that most likely acted as a land bridge.
Sources: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#ice_age (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#ice_age) .
There are so many articles that I cansource that I’m going to put a google link.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sicilian+monolith (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sicilian+monolith)

I'm curious to see what you guys think and where we can move forward with this ^_^.



Interesting. I did not hear about this but thanks to you I have read a number of articles about it. This is my opinion.

*)This is what live science says about it and the dating is just speculative 'It's unclear when people made the stone into a monolith, but the researchers say that varying sea levels offer a clue.' How sure are we about the dates and changing sea levels

*) On the island of Malta which is some 125km to the east already exist a large number Megalithic temples however carbon dating suggests them to be around 5600 years old. If the speculation is right it can easily make the monolith something that belongs to a totally different culture, even though the Islands are so close to each other. In Malta Some are also found under warter (including cartruts) that indicate they were submerged due to rising sea levels. (Bones were found but not tested for dna)

*) The articles I have read in regards to the Monolith in Pantelleria is suggested that it was people who crossed from Sicily (but I guess this is pure speculation as Pantelleria is closer to the Tunisian coast then it is to Sicily). One needs to find out on what bases they believe this. If this is so then its another problem for E1b1b traveling from North Africa to Italy

*) However the human settlements in Malta (prior to the temple building period) are known to have arrived from Sicily as the pottery shreds are similar to those found in Sicily and not north Africa. Some stones used in the Megalithic temples are not local and only found in Sicily.

*) the link of the E1b1b from Eupidia is only an alternative theory but from all the papers out it is not main stream, which is still a route through the levant. (Most papers agree on this and was vaguely proposed in one).

The Eupidia article itself could be well outdated as it says " However, since E1b1b has not been found in any of the various Neolithic sites from the Balkans and Central Europe, it is more likely that the Catalan E-V13 individual was descended from Mediterranean Mesolithic hunter-gatherers." This needs to be updated as since that time more E1b1b have been also found in Hungary Lengyel and Sopot in the Neolithic and the article does not state this. This is beside the 7000 year old E1b1b found in North Spain. If ancient bones are deciphered in the Balkans and South Europe then we can have a much clear picture, but this is not happening as yet. It seems the present data is very scarce to support a North Africa crossing to Italy in Regards to the E1b1b (mainly E-V13). With new findings things can change, but not much to back up this so far sidelined theory.

Twilight
12-03-16, 01:57
Interesting. I did not hear about this but thanks to you I have read a number of articles about it. This is my opinion.

*)This is what live science says about it and the dating is just speculative 'It's unclear when people made the stone into a monolith, but the researchers say that varying sea levels offer a clue.' How sure are we about the dates and changing sea levels

*) On the island of Malta which is some 125km to the east already exist a large number Megalithic temples however carbon dating suggests them to be around 5600 years old. If the speculation is right it can easily make the monolith something that belongs to a totally different culture, even though the Islands are so close to each other. In Malta Some are also found under warter (including cartruts) that indicate they were submerged due to rising sea levels. (Bones were found but not tested for dna)

*) The articles I have read in regards to the Monolith in Pantelleria is suggested that it was people who crossed from Sicily (but I guess this is pure speculation as Pantelleria is closer to the Tunisian coast then it is to Sicily). One needs to find out on what bases they believe this. If this is so then its another problem for E1b1b traveling from North Africa to Italy

*) However the human settlements in Malta (prior to the temple building period) are known to have arrived from Sicily as the pottery shreds are similar to those found in Sicily and not north Africa. Some stones used in the Megalithic temples are not local and only found in Sicily.

*) the link of the E1b1b from Eupidia is only an alternative theory but from all the papers out it is not main stream, which is still a route through the levant. (Most papers agree on this and was vaguely proposed in one).

The Eupidia article itself could be well outdated as it says " However, since E1b1b has not been found in any of the various Neolithic sites from the Balkans and Central Europe, it is more likely that the Catalan E-V13 individual was descended from Mediterranean Mesolithic hunter-gatherers." This needs to be updated as since that time more E1b1b have been also found in Hungary Lengyel and Sopot in the Neolithic and the article does not state this. This is beside the 7000 year old E1b1b found in North Spain. If ancient bones are deciphered in the Balkans and South Europe then we can have a much clear picture, but this is not happening as yet. It seems the present data is very scarce to support a North Africa crossing to Italy in Regards to the E1b1b (mainly E-V13). With new findings things can change, but not much to back up this so far sidelined theory.

Not a problem, I am glad I asked because I had a hunch that I am not so sure about the dates to be honest with you. I do admit that it was bold of me to post the dates though, I do have a lot to catching up to do; as far as staying up to date is concerned so thank you so much :).

Although I'm just curious, covering one hypothesis do you know what location in Ydna~E-V13 is the most diverse?

Update: Yeah, maybe the Ydna E article needs to be updated.

https://vieilleeurope.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/the-african-dna-of-europe-e-v13/

Maleth
12-03-16, 09:08
Although I'm just curious, covering one hypothesis do you know what location in Ydna~E-V13 is the most diverse?

One can only speculate at present but when the current data available is put together to be analyzed, it seems we have a total void in Anatolia but a relative continuous presence (ancient and present) knowing its birth in Central down to south Eastern Europe (Carpathian Mountains and the Danube) with an explosion during the bronze age. More or less covering the high frequencies we have at presence in the region. I really do not believe (so far) that there was any Island hopping (in regards to E-V13). For that we have to go back some 8000 years ago and check out its precursor M78 who most likely had started its journey from Eygpt (Way way before classical Eygpt!) maybe crossing to the Greek Islands or taking a coastal route through the Levant. This was a time when the Northern Hemisphere was towing from an ice age and must caused some kind of havoc with many populations but as ice receded it gave an opportunity for humans to migrate to new livable areas. Desertification was also growing in others, so movements were necessary for survival. Much more data is needed to confirm or totally dismiss any theories.

PS. In regards to the Megalithic structures I am inclined to believe they are mostly connected to a G dominant haplogroups....and initiated with the rise of food dependent mostly on agricultural methods (a more sedentary lifestyle) and possibly strong matriarchal societies since fertility has been risen to a religious status

Twilight
14-03-16, 06:05
One can only speculate at present but when the current data available is put together to be analyzed, it seems we have a total void in Anatolia but a relative continuous presence (ancient and present) knowing its birth in Central down to south Eastern Europe (Carpathian Mountains and the Danube) with an explosion during the bronze age. More or less covering the high frequencies we have at presence in the region. I really do not believe (so far) that there was any Island hopping (in regards to E-V13). For that we have to go back some 8000 years ago and check out its precursor M78 who most likely had started its journey from Eygpt (Way way before classical Eygpt!) maybe crossing to the Greek Islands or taking a coastal route through the Levant. This was a time when the Northern Hemisphere was towing from an ice age and must caused some kind of havoc with many populations but as ice receded it gave an opportunity for humans to migrate to new livable areas. Desertification was also growing in others, so movements were necessary for survival. Much more data is needed to confirm or totally dismiss any theories.

PS. In regards to the Megalithic structures I am inclined to believe they are mostly connected to a G dominant haplogroups....and initiated with the rise of food dependent mostly on agricultural methods (a more sedentary lifestyle) and possibly strong matriarchal societies since fertility has been risen to a religious status

If you put it that way, in 6,000 BC Egypt was Between the Harifan period and the Faiyum period.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Egypt#Harifian_culture
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/fayum/neolithic.html

Maleth
14-03-16, 08:27
If you put it that way, in 6,000 BC Egypt was Between the Harifan period and the Faiyum period.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Egypt#Harifian_culture
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/fayum/neolithic.html

E-M78 has been around some 15000 years and believed to have originated in this area. It might well be someone who traveled out of this area and from the Halfan culture before the birth of E-V13 mutation some 5000 years later.