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laetoli
28-03-16, 21:28
Has the DNA of the Pazyryk Ice Maiden from the Altai c.500 BCE or that of any other similar Pazyryk burials been extracted and tested? If so please could someone direct me to some papers about this. Do they contain Yamnaya admixture?
Thanks,
Paul

bicicleur
28-03-16, 22:05
Scytho-Siberian
Pazyryk culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk_burials)
Altaï Republic
Sebÿstei Valley [SEB 96K2]
M
450 BC
R1a1a
M17
D?
Ricaut 2004c (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Ricaut2004c);Keyser 2009 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Keyser2009)

ThirdTerm
28-03-16, 23:01
The Russian news agency reported in 2011 that the Siberian Ice Maiden belonged to R1a. The Siberian Times recently claimed that the Altai Princess was actually male. Here is a rough translation of the Pravda article.

The "Altai Princess" is not related to any of Asian ethnic groups. DNA analysis has revealed that her haplogroup was R1a, and she had an European appearance and a height of about 170 centimetres. 70 per cent of the eastern Slavs, according to scientific data, belong to this haplogroup.



Original text: "Принцесса" не относится ни к одной из известных монголоидных рас. У нее европейская внешность, рост около 170 сантиметров, анализ ДНК выявил ее гаплогруппу R1a. 70 процентов восточных славян, по научным данным, принадлежат к этой гаплогруппе.

Tomenable
28-03-16, 23:58
ThirdTerm,

A woman can't have haplogroup R1a because women don't have Y chromosome.

It was another Pazyryk individual - a male from Sebystei Valley - who had R1a.

"Ukok Princess" - the blonde-haired Pazyryk female mummy - had mtDNA U4.

Pazyryk samples:

http://s9.postimg.org/z6zj778wv/Pazyryk_samples.png

http://s9.postimg.org/z6zj778wv/Pazyryk_samples.png

Tomenable
29-03-16, 00:16
If so please could someone direct me to some papers about this.

Papers which include Pazyryk samples are for example these:

Keyser 2009: http://hamagmongol.narod.ru/library/keyser_2009_e.pdf
Gonzalez-Ruiz 2012: http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/79664/1/tracing_origin_Gonzalez.pdf
Chikisheva 2007: http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/435/art%253A10.1134%252FS156301100704012.pdf?originUrl =http%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Farticle%2F10.113 4%2FS156301100704012&token2=exp=1459204414~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F435%2F art%25253A10.1134%25252FS156301100704012.pdf%3Fori ginUrl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flink.springer.com%252F article%252F10.1134%252FS156301100704012*~hmac=5bd 27a4ae7bb9076eb8d44e95dcb5b034454ae5f6bc4357aee8f0 9afe0f40f1f
Pilipenko 2010: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12520-010-0042-z
Ricaut 2004: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15222683

Check also: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ironagedna.shtml


Do they contain Yamnaya admixture?

Most likely they do contain a lot of Yamnaya-like admixture.

But this info about Pazyryk has not yet been published, AFAIK.

They were related to other Indo-Iranians and to Corded Ware.

Tomenable
29-03-16, 00:23
The Siberian Times recently claimed that the Altai Princess was actually male.

LOL, really ??? Can't be...

Here is a photo showing the mummy:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xNsV8ARnHKo/U4oBTKuixtI/AAAAAAAArdk/fFutOjewBhw/s1600/93972694.jpg

And here is a reconstruction of face:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Ukok_princess_reconstruction.jpghttp://rt.com/files/news/2c/43/c0/00/rian_00784189.hr.en_copy.jpg

Tomenable
29-03-16, 00:29
By the way - there is not just one "Pazyryk Ice Maiden", but at least two of them:

- Ukok Princess (see photos posted above)
- Amazon of Ak-Alach (I also have photos)

I don't think, that either of the two was a man. Maybe there is another mummy?

Fire Haired14
29-03-16, 04:33
The Siberian Times recently claimed that the Altai Princess was actually male. Here is a rough translation of the Pravda article.

The "Altai Princess" is not related to any of Asian ethnic groups. DNA analysis has revealed that her haplogroup was R1a, and she had an European appearance and a height of about 170 centimetres. 70 per cent of the eastern Slavs, according to scientific data, belong to this haplogroup.

How recently?

holderlin
31-03-16, 04:22
How recently?

That's one hot dude.

I think this was a Murray Gell Mann effect.

The writer didn't know what he was writing about and mixed things up. I remember someone on here posting about Y-HG of females too.

MOESAN
01-04-16, 23:14
Females are robbing everything we had, authorrity, pole position during sex, occupations, sports, and even our Y-DNA now? The hell! I 'll keep one eye on my wife.
seriously I saw during a TV report Pazyryk culture envolved men of Europoid and Mongoloid stocks (phoenotypes). If they were a mix as was the Karasuk culture, they were surely very heterogenous (the DNA of Karasuk members shows a not fully homogeneized population with very different levels of admixture according to the individuals, more heterogenous than the European BA populations which were already heterogenous (their elite at least).
concerning reconstruction, let's be cautious; some relatively small young men and high statured women can converge; according to the believing of the artist, the result can be very different!

LeBrok
02-04-16, 02:39
Females are robbing everything we had, authorrity, pole position during sex, occupations, sports, and even our Y-DNA now? The hell! I 'll keep one eye on my wife.
seriously Lol, good one.

ThirdTerm
02-04-16, 03:45
No, The Siberian Ice Maiden Is Not A Man

I wouldn’t trust a sex estimate of a skeleton that was just 16 years old, but it appears that archaeologists used artifacts to back this up. In that sense, it is not surprising that a DNA test came back with a biological sex that was different than the osteological assessment of the teenager. The DNA testing, headed by A.S. Pilipenko, is summarized here. The researchers found that the juvenile was male and that he was related to the adult male in the other burial in the mound, although they were not biologically father and son. The differences in artifacts and hairstyles can easily be explained by the culture’s differential treatment of subadults rather than different sexes or genders — recent studies in the bioarchaeology of childhood suggest that it is not unusual cross-culturally for children to have differing social statuses or presentations compared to adults, and this extends into burial treatment quite often.

This means, then, that the sex of the Ice Maiden is not in question, even though that appears from various archaeological news sites I haunt to be the initial interpretation — largely based on the inclusion of the reconstruction of the now-known-to-be-male individual from Ak-Alakha-1, Mound 1, Burial 2, which looks like a woman in her early 30s with a tattoo unique to the Ice Maiden. Siberian Times has recently clarified their reporting to be more specific about which mound/burial is being discussed. Nevertheless, due to the immediate and widespread confusion about the reconstruction, I’m hoping this clarifies the subject further.


The original article was published in the Siberian Times in December 2015 and it may have been a mix-up that should be clarified, according to the Forbes article. There are several ancient burial sites in Siberia and the research paper by Pilipenko et al. (2015) genetically examined the two individuals from Burial 1, Mound 1 at Ak-Alakha-3 and the team confirmed that the adult male individual was buried with the child who sex was female, which they tried to establish with more scientific accuracy. This Siberian chieftain was covered with girly tattoos, which may be why the Siberian Times misidentified it as the Ice Maiden that was previously reported.



A separate set of obtained results is related to nuclear loci serving as the markers of sex and of the status of autosomal hypervariable STR loci, which are used to obtain individual genetic characteristics and to determine possible kinship between the individuals. Analysis of genetic sex-markers has supported the male sex of the adult individual, previously determined by the methods of physical anthropology. No traces of the presence of Y-chromosome DNA have been identified in the remains of the child, which suggests that the child’s sex is female.

sesselmann
01-06-18, 00:26
Hi Tomenable! I have been trying to discover source material for the Ukok Princess's mtDNA (U4). For some reason I cannot access the samples png link, so I'm wondering if you could point me toward a source?

MagicWandgak
07-09-18, 15:22
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