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Yetos
04-04-16, 02:52
The last days wiki has something about IMF and his role to Greece and Grexit.

anyone has something to say?

well when the mistaken loan from Goldman-Sachs was taken nobody said a thing,
and it was stupid from Greece part,
and indeed reformation needed to be taken

but the rope went to far,
anyone who has read the latest wiki-leaks



It was a set up case which started from hidden loan from GOLDAMN-SACHS
CONTINUE WITH SETTING UP DOMINIQUE STROSS KAHN,
AND TODAY HAVE NATO FORCES AT GREECE, WITH A GERMAN ADMIRAL WHICH IN SIX MONTHS WILL BE A TURK,
and the story will go on, it does not ends here,

except if you trust Velpulesku, the ex-communist, daughter of a Ceausesku heart-compagnion.

a really set up case,
a kind of modern dictarorship, not using Junda, but economical and NATO forces


well has anybody read it?

Yetos
04-04-16, 13:09
another recent scandal, that runs these days,
altough it hasnothing to do with IMF,
but with the role of 'offshore' companies

the panama papers


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6XnH_OnpO0


more here
https://www.icij.org

ElHorsto
04-04-16, 13:42
https://www.icij.org

Yet another caring institution that cares so much about other countries. The sponsors of this institution have no off-shore accounts anymore I guess, lol.

Yetos
04-04-16, 14:53
Yet another caring institution that cares so much about other countries. The sponsors of this institution have no off-shore accounts anymore I guess, lol.



:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

hahaha,

well until today I guess no,
But for tomorrow, I can not certify,

bicicleur
04-04-16, 17:56
a lot of famous people are on the list
but only a few of them will be disclosed, I'm sure

Angela
04-04-16, 18:53
Have people really forgotten what the Greek communists were like and what they did after the war? If it weren't for NATO Greece could have gone the way of Romania. I was there during the Ceausescu years; it was an absolute and utter horror.

Marxism has never worked and never will, because it tries to counter basic human nature instead of working with it, and oh, by the way, it always has and always will lead to totalitarianism. It's one of the great con jobs of human history in my opinion.

See:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/oh-good-were-arguing-whether-marxism-works.html

If nothing else, these "Panama leaks" should show there's absolutely no difference in terms of corruption between capitalist leaders and communist leaders; actually, in my experience the communist ones are worse.

ElHorsto
04-04-16, 19:19
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

hahaha,

well until today I guess no,
But for tomorrow, I can not certify,

They have modernized by using foundations (https://www.publicintegrity.org/about/our-work/supporters)[1] instead of off-shore. Off-shore is so 1980s.

[1] https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/corporate-media-gatekeepers-protect-western-1-from-panama-leak/

A. Papadimitriou
04-04-16, 20:21
Have people really forgotten what the Greek communists were like and what they did after the war? If it weren't for NATO Greece could have gone the way of Romania. I was there during the Ceausescu years; it was an absolute and utter horror.

Marxism has never worked and never will, because it tries to counter basic human nature instead of working with it, and oh, by the way, it always has and always will lead to totalitarianism. It's one of the great con jobs of human history in my opinion.

See:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/oh-good-were-arguing-whether-marxism-works.html

If nothing else, these "Panama leaks" should show there's absolutely no difference in terms of corruption between capitalist leaders and communist leaders; actually, in my experience the communist ones are worse.

NATO was formed in 1949. It didn't play a role on the Civil War. Great Britain (mostly) and US played a role on one hand and Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania played another role on the other hand. Soviet Union didn't support the Greek communists. Most Greeks are not Communists so they would agree with you on not supporting communism but they historically are not happy with US involvement in Greek politics either. If I lived in 1946-49 I wouldn't support the Communists but the narration "The West saved the Greeks from totalitarianism" is simplistic and false. Everything the big powers ("capitalist" or "communist") did or do is for their own interests and that's normal and expected.

Apart from that, some of the criticism towards NATO is not related to historical issues but to currrent things NATO does or doesn't do. I don't want to say something on that. NATO "patrols" on the Aegean are mostly decorative.

Milan
04-04-16, 21:26
NATO was formed in 1949. It didn't play a role on the Civil War. Great Britain (mostly) and US played a role on one hand and Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania played another role on the other hand. Soviet Union didn't support the Greek communists. Most Greeks are not Communists so they would agree with you on not supporting communism but they historically are not happy with US involvement in Greek politics either. If I lived in 1946-49 I wouldn't support the Communists but the narration "The West saved the Greeks from totalitarianism" is simplistic and false. Everything the big powers ("capitalist" or "communist") did or do is for their own interests and that's normal and expected.

Apart from that, some of the criticism towards NATO is not related to historical issues but to currrent things NATO does or doesn't do. I don't want to say something on that. NATO "patrols" on the Aegean are mostly decorative.
I agree with you and i would say that i would most probably not supporting communists in Yugoslavia in that period of time of course i talk with a present day view,this is might be of topic,however the communists had a view such is Balkan federation which dates from much earlier time of Rigos Feraios for example,Soviet union was against this they did not even allowed Bulgaria to enter Yugoslavia,which union in fact would make this people less dependant of the "great powers", but the communist view on history,political unity wasn't good at all,and that's why completely failed for example in catastrophe in Yugoslavia for which i blame the leaders of that time,in that period of time Yugoslavia was to play a role and had a say,for example president Tito find the "non aligned movement" to protect themselves from imperialism,today most of this countries are viewed as war torn the case of the Balkan is in mess i believe people should look at the past mistakes,we previosly had Balkan union against Ottoman empire but then we had Balkan wars and hatred that war brings,the politicians must cooperate and find a solution for problems without further making them, so much unnecessary troubles like in the past.

Yetos
04-04-16, 22:31
Have people really forgotten what the Greek communists were like and what they did after the war? If it weren't for NATO Greece could have gone the way of Romania. I was there during the Ceausescu years; it was an absolute and utter horror.

Marxism has never worked and never will, because it tries to counter basic human nature instead of working with it, and oh, by the way, it always has and always will lead to totalitarianism. It's one of the great con jobs of human history in my opinion.

See:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/oh-good-were-arguing-whether-marxism-works.html

If nothing else, these "Panama leaks" should show there's absolutely no difference in terms of corruption between capitalist leaders and communist leaders; actually, in my experience the communist ones are worse.


No Angela,
Greeks do not forget the civil war, that communists and Stalin served us, neither the Makedonia case with Blent treaty by 3rd communist international, neither the kidnap of kids to behind the curtain by communists, or to USA by the stupid queenn
NATO FORGOT WHO SIGNED BLENT TREATY,
but Greek also never forget the 7 years of Junda that NATO gave us as present, a gift by H Kissinger,
as also Greeks never Forget the second gift from NATO, Cyprus division.

so Angela as Greek I am not obliged neither to Russia, neither to NATO,
we pay our ransom, with Junda and Cyprus.

It costs to be free, it has high cost,

LABERIA
04-04-16, 23:14
NATO was formed in 1949. It didn't play a role on the Civil War. Great Britain (mostly) and US played a role on one hand and Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania played another role on the other hand. Soviet Union didn't support the Greek communists.
Agree, very accurate.

Most Greeks are not Communists so they would agree with you on not supporting communism but they historically are not happy with US involvement in Greek politics either.
Because most of the greeks have an secret dream, it`s called Mother Russia.


If I lived in 1946-49 I wouldn't support the Communists but the narration "The West saved the Greeks from totalitarianism" is simplistic and false. Everything the big powers ("capitalist" or "communist") did or do is for their own interests and that's normal and expected.
Of course the West saved Greece from communism. Who saved Greece according to you? Not only saved your country, but they made extraordinary investments, in order to make Greece a model capitalist country into a communist Balkans.

Milan
04-04-16, 23:25
[email protected] you mean by "Communist Balkans" certainly "communism" wasn't the same in every country;
You can't compare Soviet-Chinese satelite Albania or Bulgaria communism with Yugoslav communism which was called capitalist country by them.
Very easy you people throw rocks at them but i suppose they were good to you at that time aren't they?

Not a communist here,but most people say that they lived much better then than now in "capitalism" only nationalists say otherwise,ordinary Yugoslav have much decent live than their surroundings.
Homeless people=zero,the state help you if you have no house/appartment.
Free health care
Job after you finish education.etc
All that now is gone,most people can never afford to buy an appartment and unemployment is very high,likewise ones brotherhood and unity is run by nationalists that fuel hatred.

LABERIA
04-04-16, 23:40
I agree with you and i would say that i would most probably not supporting communists in Yugoslavia in that period of time of course i talk with a present day view,this is might be of topic,however the communists had a view such is Balkan federation which dates from much earlier time of Rigos Feraios for example,Soviet union was against this they did not even allowed Bulgaria to enter Yugoslavia,which union in fact would make this people less dependant of the "great powers", but the communist view on history,political unity wasn't good at all,and that's why completely failed for example in catastrophe in Yugoslavia for which i blame the leaders of that time,in that period of time Yugoslavia was to play a role and had a say,for example president Tito find the "non aligned movement" to protect themselves from imperialism,today most of this countries are viewed as war torn the case of the Balkan is in mess i believe people should look at the past mistakes,we previosly had Balkan union against Ottoman empire but then we had Balkan wars and hatred that war brings,the politicians must cooperate and find a solution for problems without further making them, so much unnecessary troubles like in the past.

Your post is full with historical inaccuracies. At the end of XVIII century and the begining of XIX there was the famous Eastern Question. There were many forces in the field and many plans what will happen with the Ottoman Empire. There was some Orthodox intellectuals from Balcans who aspire to a revivial of Bisantine Empire. Among yhis was Rigos Feraios, a vlach. But this plan do not envisioned the existence of the Balkan states as they are today. Of course the Great Powers had other plans, each Great Power had a plan. In the end prevailed the compromis between Great Powers.
As for the second part of your post, you are wrong. There was a contadition between Stalin and Tito. Both wanted an confederate in Balcan. But Stalin wanted that at the beginig there was a confederation between Yougoslavia and Bulgaria. With this, Stalin wanted to increase the orthodox element in this confederation and to keep it under control. But in Yougoslavia were all against this. Even the Serbs were against, because you know the relation between two nations. The plan of Tito is to make an confederate with Albania. Also he wanted, after he made an agreement with greek communist, to take some partts of North Greece. In few words, a new Tsar Dusan Empire.

There were fierce debates between Yugoslav leaders and Stalin. Stalin in one moment said not with Albania, but with Bulgaria, as soon as possible. He was very angry with the Yugoslav intervention in the Greek civil war. Because the two countries, URSS and Yougoslavia had a treaty of mutual assistance in case that one of the two countries attacked by any third power. Tito with his adventure in Greece, was creating a risk. For USA and GB can intervene militarily and the SU will be forced under the treaty to get involved in a war against the West. And Stalin feared this scenario.

LABERIA
04-04-16, 23:45
[email protected] you mean by "Communist Balkans" certainly "communism" wasn't the same in every country;
You can't compare Soviet-Chinese satelite Albania or Bulgaria communism with Yugoslav communism which was called capitalist country by them.
Very easy you people throw rocks at them but i suppose they were good to you at that time aren't they?

Not a communist here,but most people say that they lived much better than then now in "capitalism" only nationalists say otherwise,ordinary Yugoslav have much decent live than their surroundings.
Homeless people=zero,the state help you if you have no house/appartment.
Free health care
Job after you finish education.etc
All that now is gone,most people can never afford to buy an appartment and unemployment is very high,likewise ones brotherhood and unity is run by nationalists that fuel hatred.
Until the mid 60-s, the yougoslav communism was the worst dictature in Europe after the Stalin dictature. About your term Soviet-Chinese satelite Albania, you are wrong. Because Albania rooted relations with these two countries at the time was deemed reasonable. You have to know that in 1960-61, there was an sovieto-albanian crisis. The situation was aggravated and risked to explode an armed conflict between two countries in the Military Base of Vlora.

LABERIA
04-04-16, 23:48
EDIT.
Your Yougoslav "paradise", your third way, was a failed system. Because was financed with debts and was not a productive system.

Milan
05-04-16, 00:00
Will not start further argument cause every time this "Balkan cause" is geting funny in here;
Will not want to polute the same thread which is different topic.

LABERIA
05-04-16, 00:02
Will not start further argument cause every time this "Balkan cause" is geting funny in here;
Will not want to polute the same thread which is different topic.

Then open a new thread and make some funny for us. You don`t know the history of your country.

Angela
05-04-16, 00:13
NATO was formed in 1949. It didn't play a role on the Civil War. Great Britain (mostly) and US played a role on one hand and Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania played another role on the other hand. Soviet Union didn't support the Greek communists. Most Greeks are not Communists so they would agree with you on not supporting communism but they historically are not happy with US involvement in Greek politics either. If I lived in 1946-49 I wouldn't support the Communists but the narration "The West saved the Greeks from totalitarianism" is simplistic and false. Everything the big powers ("capitalist" or "communist") did or do is for their own interests and that's normal and expected.

Apart from that, some of the criticism towards NATO is not related to historical issues but to currrent things NATO does or doesn't do. I don't want to say something on that. NATO "patrols" on the Aegean are mostly decorative.

O.K., point taken, not NATO, the West...

I agree that NATO could do more, but we have a lame administration, and even without that, trying to get the NATO countries to work together toward a common goal is like herding cats. If the EU can't develop a unified interception plan for the Mediterranean, why would the same countries, even if joined by the U.S., be able to do so in NATO?

Trump is proclaiming he's tired of having America carry the burden for Europe and wants to pull out of NATO. Contemplate what would happen to Europe if he gets elected and that came to pass. The EU is totally dysfunctional from what I can see, in terms of the economy and the migrant crisis both, and the internal security systems are a joke. I have absolutely no confidence in Europe's ability to provide for its own external security alone.

As for your view of what would have happened to Greece (and Italy, and France) without the help of the U.S. and Britain after the war I couldn't disagree more. I know what went on in those countries in the chaos after the war. I had relatives on both sides, or all sides, more realistically, of the political divides in Italy, and it seems to me that the situation in Greece was even worse. Billions of dollars were pumped into all of those countries, including Germany, while the Russians sucked the countries dry that were under their control. All three countries could very well have gone Communist without it. Ask the people who actually had to go down the other road what that would have meant. You think you would have been better off? You think that on your own you could have avoided a total fracture into chaos if not a Communist takeover? I don't.

As for the statement that was made that people in Yugoslavia are worse off now than under Tito, maybe, if that's true, they should consider what they did to their infrastructure and economy when they decided to have a civil war once Tito was gone.

Milan
05-04-16, 01:19
Then open a new thread and make some funny for us. You don`t know the history of your country.
You don't need to learn me history cause they might be differently written i can open thread in which i am interested in;
I write in short terms
Tito–Stalin Split

Scholars now emphasize the cause was Stalin's rejection of Tito's plans to absorb Albania and Greece in cooperation with Bulgaria, thereby setting up a powerful Eastern European bloc outside Moscow's control.
Can you see the Tito goal is independence! Balkan federation.
In the complicated Macedonian question
The communists wanted independent Macedonian republic from entire Macedonian region in unified republic for all people Greeks,Slavic etc they after the plan failed had perhaps territorial ambitions.
Comparing this with Tsar Dusan empire,monarchy from medieval feudal time and communists are two different worlds!

LABERIA
05-04-16, 01:23
You don't need to learn me history cause they might be differently written i can open thread in which i am interested in;
I write in short terms
Tito–Stalin Split

Scholars now emphasize the cause was Stalin's rejection of Tito's plans to absorb Albania and Greece in cooperation with Bulgaria, thereby setting up a powerful Eastern European bloc outside Moscow's control.
Can you see the Tito goal is independence! Balkan federation.
In the complicated Macedonian question
The communists wanted independent Macedonian republic from entire Macedonian region in unified republic for all people Greeks,Slavic etc they after the plan failed had perhaps territorial ambitions.
Comparing this with Tsar Dusan empire,monarchy from medieval feudal time and communists are two different worlds!

Read Milovan Djilas.

Yetos
05-04-16, 01:27
O.K., point taken, not NATO, the West...

I agree that NATO could do more, but we have a lame administration, and even without that, trying to get the NATO countries to work together toward a common goal is like herding cats. If the EU can't develop a unified interception plan for the Mediterranean, why would the same countries, even if joined by the U.S., be able to do so in NATO?

Trump is proclaiming he's tired of having America carry the burden for Europe and wants to pull out of NATO. Contemplate what would happen to Europe if he gets elected and that came to pass. The EU is totally dysfunctional from what I can see, in terms of the economy and the migrant crisis both, and the internal security systems are a joke. I have absolutely no confidence in Europe's ability to provide for its own external security alone.

As for your view of what would have happened to Greece (and Italy, and France) without the help of the U.S. and Britain after the war I couldn't disagree more. I know what went on in those countries in the chaos after the war. I had relatives on both sides, or all sides, more realistically, of the political divides in Italy, and it seems to me that the situation in Greece was even worse. Billions of dollars were pumped into all of those countries, including Germany, while the Russians sucked the countries dry that were under their control. All three countries could very well have gone Communist without it. Ask the people who actually had to go down the other road what that would have meant. You think you would have been better off? You think that on your own you could have avoided a total fracture into chaos if not a Communist takeover? I don't.

As for the statement that was made that people in Yugoslavia are worse off now than under Tito, maybe, if that's true, they should consider what they did to their infrastructure and economy when they decided to have a civil war once Tito was gone.

Angela again I answer, try to understand it,

Franklin Roosvelt agreed with Stalin at Yalta to Give Greece 60-40 to Communist Block, and create 50-50 South-Slavia, possibly meaning 2-3 countries instead of Tito's Yugoslavia.
Churchil understanding that Roosvelt was a weak bad politician, denied, for 2 reasons, first was the exit of communism to the heart of mediterrenean,
and second is that Russia would gain the finest naval people and nation of the time, even today the Greek merchant fleet is at 10 biggest of the world,
consider all that power given to Russia,
so Churchil send 3000 Indians with general Scomby to support the king,
Roosvelt was an idiot,

but after 1948 and the colonial system collapse, british empire lost the title of empire, and remain british,
the almighty queenn, or bloody, choose what you like, lost all the power of production and markets, which pass to USA,
WW2 change the baton of world economical leader/runner, from british empire to USA officially after 1948-49,
few years later at USA we had the famous theories of McArthour, a DOGMA.
while in Greece we count the wounds of civil war, and tenths of thousands orphans who went either behind 'iron curtain' either to USA for adoption (quenn frederica kids)
a generation lost,
and the came Adenauer and took what left, to Germany to work for German industries,
Marshal plan? yes like the today's save from Bankers.
and time pass,
and Cyprus gets its indepence at 1950's,
and then starts the stragle against both,
AT 21/04/1967 USA USES COLONEL AGAINST THE YOUNG KING,
THE KING WAS TO MAKE A JUNDA AT 1/05/1967 TO AVOID USA/CIA INVASION TO GREEK POLITICKS,
USA DEMANDS 3,
MOUNT OLYMP AND LARISSA TO BE HEADQUARTERS OF NATO,
FORCE CYPRUS TO ENTER NATO, AND EXPALSION OF MAKARIOS,
AIR CORRIDOR TO IESRAEL,

the 1rst dictator denies so they change him, CIA at Athens that time was Rombin, later chief command of CIA at Klinton presidential times,
Rombin penetrate Communists and create left Che style, Syriza ex-members were his creation,
so they change the dictator they help and put, and bring another who efforts to put a dictator at Cyprus,
and then we have Cyprus catastrophe,
immidiatly after Greek officer revolt and change alliance with France,

the above story is True,
NICKOLAS BURNS OFFICIALLY ASK SORRY, AND ADMIT IT,
NICKOLAS BURNS WAS THE MOST HONOUR AMBASSADOR THAT USA HAD AT GREECE.
AND IMMIDIATLY THEY CHANGE HIM,
BUT IS THE ONLY USA AMBASSADOR THAT GREEKS LOVED.

That is the story and the gifts of NATO and USA,

but do not forget,
at the times of civil war, Stalin knew he lost, so he send his puppet, Dimitrov, 3rd Communist International, who pushed Tito to Blent Treaty,
the half Aegean exit? and what NATO did to that?
simply Tito realize Stalin, and get off his train, and moved to 3rd World.

Greece after 1922 and minor Asia catastrophe,
has 1 sister and one forgotten cousin,
the forgotten cousin lives at south Italy and Marseille, but he is not Greek anymore, a melancholic solitudine of ausencia
the Sister is Cyprus, and NATO FORCE US TO BETRAY HER, USING ITS JUNDA, WHY??????

PS
It costs to be Free, and pay it with money, with blood, even by betraying our sister country.
so NATO took us more than it gave to us,

PS2
our national anthem was written by a popolaro who study at Cremona and Pavia and lived at (that time) Italian islands,
and is not a hymn about a king or a queenn, or a land of brave, or an order and progressive state,
it is a hymn about Freedom, and the death and blod and freak and horror that is demanded to get it,

Yetos
05-04-16, 02:09
anyway

the strange at Panama pappers is that names reach even Putin, Russia president,
and not even one USA citizen is among them?
so probably Mossack-Fonseca had only south America, Arab and European 'customers'

LeBrok
05-04-16, 04:14
anyway

the strange at Panama pappers is that names reach even Putin, Russia president,
and not even one USA citizen is among them?
so probably Mossack-Fonseca had only south America, Arab and European 'customers'It is only strange for you, because you thought the West is rotten. I was telling you that generally speaking US is good and honest. Now you have the proof. Or maybe it is American conspiracy? ;)

I'm glad it was published. Now we will know who is dishonest citizen or a leader.

There are 7 chinese leaders families listed. Panama papers are blocked by government in China! And of course Putin!

Edit: Putin probably doesn't need it, but his close friends are quite unsure of Putin's friendship and have plan B ready.
Edit2: Well, it might be directly about Putin anyway. Kremlin spokesman was overly defensive:

Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters that the Kremlin had received "a series of questions in a rude manner" from an organization that he said was trying to smear Putin.
"Journalists and members of other organizations have been actively trying to discredit Putin and this country's leadership," Peskov said.
In Kremlin's eyes panama papers are only about Putin, lol.


Juicy details will be published in a month:

Businessmen, criminals, celebrities and sports stars — the ICIJ said the documents involve 214,488 companies and 14,153 clients of Mossack Fonseca. The non-profit group said it would release the full list of companies and people linked to them early next month.
The Munich-based German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung said it was offered the data more than a year ago through an encrypted channel by an anonymous source. The source sought unspecified security measures but no compensation, said Bastian Obermayer, a reporter for the paper.
The documents provided to Suddeutsche Zeitung, amounting to about 2.6 terabytes of data, included emails, financial spreadsheets, passports and corporate records detailing how powerful figures used banks, law firms and offshore shell companies to hide their assets. The data dated from 1977 through the end of 2015, it said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/04/trove-of-data-on-offshore-accounts-prompts-probe-questions_n_9608364.html

ElHorsto
05-04-16, 15:43
In Kremlin's eyes panama papers are only about Putin, lol.


Let's be honest, it was the western press that was full with Putin-Putin-Putin headlines and images, as if the panama papers with 14000 clients and 200000 companies are only about Putin. Taxes in Russia are very low, so it could rather have something to do with the sanctions, similar to Syria which is also being sanctioned (how happy are syrians about that?). But I personally do not really care, it is not my country. One would expect statistics about each country in the press title stories. Instead we see cherry-picked individuals in headlines, partially only based on their alleged friends.

Yetos
06-04-16, 08:27
and again I give cons to Iceland,

seems like is the only country were democracy exists today,

am I jealous, or I feel envy, but the last decade they are magnificent.

ElHorsto
06-04-16, 09:40
There are worse politicians than Gunnlaugsson. Accusers are not always benevolent. Hope icelanders did not start a "nordic spring" for peanuts.

bicicleur
06-04-16, 09:58
It is only strange for you, because you thought the West is rotten. I was telling you that generally speaking US is good and honest. Now you have the proof. Or maybe it is American conspiracy? ;)

I'm glad it was published. Now we will know who is dishonest citizen or a leader.

There are 7 chinese leaders families listed. Panama papers are blocked by government in China! And of course Putin!

Edit: Putin probably doesn't need it, but his close friends are quite unsure of Putin's friendship and have plan B ready.
Edit2: Well, it might be directly about Putin anyway. Kremlin spokesman was overly defensive:
In Kremlin's eyes panama papers are only about Putin, lol.


Juicy details will be published in a month:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/04/trove-of-data-on-offshore-accounts-prompts-probe-questions_n_9608364.html

I'm certain there will be cherriepicking in the names that will be released and that will not.
I haven't heared any names of common criminals yet.
And as you state, there are certain persons who don't need that kind of constructions because they make the laws in their own country themselves.

ElHorsto
07-04-16, 18:35
Seems like the hype around the "biggest leak in history" has already faded.
It is possible that the majority of these off-shore cases to avoid taxes are legal. It is well-known and often criticized, but not illegal if done right. Foundations serve the same purpose, it is the preferred method of the 1%.

Angela
07-04-16, 19:22
It's not the legality or illegality of it; it's the hypocrisy. If I were living in a country where they wanted to take 90% of my earned income, I'd try to shelter it somewhere else if I could too.

The point is whether the politicians or celebrities doing that are also publicly proclaiming income equality. How many western political leaders or celebrities are advocating high tax rates for other people, but trying to avoid them personally? How many Communist leaders are touting the equality of their systems while hiding millions and millions offshore for their own use? How many tin pot dictators?

People have a right to know, and they will. It's already gone out onto servers all over the world.

ElHorsto
07-04-16, 20:02
Ok then, we learned that politicians are hypocrites. Still hypocrites who point fingers at other hypocrites, are double-hypocrites. The data have been preprocessed for one year. We don't know who has been removed from the data. I think it was in the wrong hands.

Yetos
07-04-16, 21:21
in a previous post I wrote something about prostitution at Roman empire, Pompei,

Julius (my favorite hawk, Aurelian nose) ceasar try to restore Roman family to older ethos, to previous customs of morality,
and he pushed some laws about Roman wifes,

today in Greece we have a moto that left from that time,

Η του καισαρος γυνη δει τιμια φαινετε, ου μονoν ειναι

meaning that ceasars wife, must also look honest, not only be,

PS
tragic isn't it?
lesson for morality, from someone that his country politicians only look honest, but not they are.
:unhappy:

LeBrok
08-04-16, 06:14
It's not the legality or illegality of it; it's the hypocrisy. If I were living in a country where they wanted to take 90% of my earned income, I'd try to shelter it somewhere else if I could too.

The point is whether the politicians or celebrities doing that are also publicly proclaiming income equality. How many western political leaders or celebrities are advocating high tax rates for other people, but trying to avoid them personally? How many Communist leaders are touting the equality of their systems while hiding millions and millions offshore for their own use? How many tin pot dictators?

People have a right to know, and they will. It's already gone out onto servers all over the world.
In some cases there might be legality and tax evasion issue. Ownership of foreign assets should be declared and income tax paid on gains. Obviously these small tax havens are used mostly for that purpose. Other reasons are money laundering and trading accounts to avoid sanctions.

bicicleur
08-04-16, 20:44
It's not the legality or illegality of it; it's the hypocrisy. If I were living in a country where they wanted to take 90% of my earned income, I'd try to shelter it somewhere else if I could too.

The point is whether the politicians or celebrities doing that are also publicly proclaiming income equality. How many western political leaders or celebrities are advocating high tax rates for other people, but trying to avoid them personally? How many Communist leaders are touting the equality of their systems while hiding millions and millions offshore for their own use? How many tin pot dictators?

People have a right to know, and they will. It's already gone out onto servers all over the world.

talking about hypocrisy

these people don't need an acount in Panama :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBVFpYN0iNo