PDA

View Full Version : j1P58, Midle Eastern origin?



jgviv
27-04-16, 21:10
Good Morning!

I have just received my DNA results for 23andme. Im not quite an expert, although i have seen my paternal Haplogroup is J1P58. So, does it means i have a Near/Middle East Origin in my Paternal side(the father of the father of my father and so on was originally from that region)?

Thank you very much for your help :)

Alan
28-04-16, 01:04
basically 99% of the lineages you find in Spain and Europe in general are from "that " region. So your far ancestor is from there no matter which lineage you have. However J1 P58 looks to be one of the later arrivals. Maybe Iron Age, possibly even later into middle ages.

ThirdTerm
28-04-16, 01:19
J1-P58 (J1a2b on the ISOGG tree, formerly known as J1e, then as J1c3) is by far the most widespread subclade of J1. It is a typically Semitic haplogroup, making up most of the population of the Arabian peninsula, where it accounts for approximately 40% to 75% of male lineages. About 20% of Jewish people belong haplogroup J1-P58, most of whom are also positive either for ZS223, L858 (Z642, YSC76 and FGC12) or Z18297. L816 represents a minority of Jewish J1. ZS223 comprises the Cohen Modal Haplotype. In the Hebrew Bible, the common ancestor of all Cohens is identified as Aaron, the brother of Moses. Roughly half of all Cohanim belong to J1-ZS223. The Cohanim haplotype (YCAII=22-22) of ZS223 matches the Z18271 deep clade.


According to this website's J1 page, it is a Semitic haplogroup commonly found in the Arabian peninsula (40-75%). Hammer et al. (2009) also found that the most frequent Cohanim lineage (46.1%) is marked by the P58 T->C mutation (J1-ZS223) and J-P58 is one of the six Y-STR markers called the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). J1 is quite rare in Spain (1.5%), while J2 is found at 8%, which is associated with ancient civilisations flourished in the Fertile Crescent. J2 may have spread with the migrations from ancient Mesopotamia and J-P58 may have been introduced to the region from North Africa as 31-43% of Tunisians carry J-P58. Alternatively, J-P58 is also linked to the Saphadic Jewish community (12%) and it could be of Saphadi origin.



It has been known for over a decade that a majority of men who self report as members of the Jewish priesthood (Cohanim) carry a characteristic Y chromosome haplotype termed the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). The CMH has since been used to trace putative Jewish ancestral origins of various populations. However, the limited number of binary and STR Y chromosome markers used previously did not provide the phylogenetic resolution needed to infer the number of independent paternal lineages that are encompassed within the Cohanim or their coalescence times. Accordingly, we have genotyped 75 binary markers and 12 Y-STRs in a sample of 215 Cohanim from diverse Jewish communities, 1,575 Jewish men from across the range of the Jewish Diaspora, and 2,099 non-Jewish men from the Near East, Europe, Central Asia, and India. While Cohanim from diverse backgrounds carry a total of 21 Y chromosome haplogroups, 5 haplogroups account for 79.5% of Cohanim Y chromosomes. The most frequent Cohanim lineage (46.1%) is marked by the recently reported P58 T->C mutation, which is prevalent in the Near East. Based on genotypes at 12 Y-STRs, we identify an extended CMH on the J-P58* background that predominates in both Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Cohanim and is remarkably absent in non-Jews. The estimated divergence time of this lineage based on 17 STRs is 3,190 +/- 1,090 years. Notably, the second most frequent Cohanim lineage (J-M410*, 14.4%) contains an extended modal haplotype that is also limited to Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Cohanim and is estimated to be 4.2 +/- 1.3 ky old. These results support the hypothesis of a common origin of the CMH in the Near East well before the dispersion of the Jewish people into separate communities, and indicate that the majority of contemporary Jewish priests descend from a limited number of paternal lineages.

jgviv
28-04-16, 15:47
According to this website's J1 page, it is a Semitic haplogroup commonly found in the Arabian peninsula (40-75%). Hammer et al. (2009) also found that the most frequent Cohanim lineage (46.1%) is marked by the P58 T->C mutation (J1-ZS223) and J-P58 is one of the six Y-STR markers called the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). J1 is quite rare in Spain (1.5%), while J2 is found at 8%, which is associated with ancient civilisations flourished in the Fertile Crescent. J2 may have spread with the migrations from ancient Mesopotamia and J-P58 may have been introduced to the region from North Africa as 31-43% of Tunisians carry J-P58. Alternatively, J-P58 is also linked to the Saphadic Jewish community (12%) and it could be of Saphadi origin.

Thank you both for your answers, it's fascinating how you can trace a particular origin through DNA i was quite exited to confirm some middle eastern origin by my paternal haplogroup, even if is at Iron or Medieval Age is not that far. My DNA Results were: "88 % southern european(70% iberian)", "7,7% Broadly Northwestern european" , "0,4% Subsaharian african". I was surprised i didnt have any trace from north Africa or Middle East when at the description says: iberian have a deep connection genetically with the rest of Europe, but also influenced by its proximity with Africa", and knowing i have a middle eastern haplogroup, my question is; are north africa and middle east origins integrated in southern europe, and it could mean i have'nt got any middle eastern origin even my paternal haplogroup is JP58?

Thanks for your help

Sarah Awad
02-09-16, 03:26
J1-p58 has an origin in southern mesopotamia/northern arabia. My fathers ydna is j1-p58 and his ancestors moved to Egypt most likely from the north arabian area. Join the J1 ydna ftdna project and contact victar mas to get a better idea of your cluster. Maybe you will be related to me :) we already share a common ancestor 8k yeara ago.

monarch
14-10-18, 05:19
23andme reported to me my paternal is j-p58 and that it is xtremely rare. less than one in 300000have j-p58. is this sephardic as im not jewish or my father or his father. thanks for any links or ideas. John

Chacal
18-10-18, 20:35
Olá, sou novo por aqui ... meu chamo Márcio Albino, sou brasileiro, meu Estado é Minas Gerais, fiz o Ydna 37, e pertenço ao halopgrupo J M267, no Nevgen quando joguei meus marcadores deu J1a2a1a2 P58. Quem pode me ajudar a entender o que isso significa? Lendo um pouco parece que esse halopgrupo é o mesmo que J1c3......

Chacal
18-10-18, 20:44
esses são meus marcadores:





12


23



13
11
13-19
11
17
11
13
11
30


19
08-09
11
11
26
14
20
25
12-14-16-17




10
10
22-22
14
14
18
18
32-36
11
10

mathewsalinas
20-08-19, 17:05
history is always cool

nornosh
31-08-19, 04:34
23andme reported to me my paternal is j-p58 and that it is xtremely rare. less than one in 300000have j-p58. is this sephardic as im not jewish or my father or his father. thanks for any links or ideas. John
Yet worldwide it's 1 in every 201 person with this subclade.