View Full Version : I2a2a-S185

03-05-16, 11:50
A friend of mine has received his results and he has this haplogroup, where it originates and how it spread in Europe?

04-05-16, 03:03
I guess here is a good descripton Hautville

Haplogroup I2a2a (M223)

I2a2a (formerly I2b1) amounts to over 90% of I2a2.

[*=left]I2a2a1 (M284+) occurs almost exclusively in Britain, where it seemingly developed about 3,000 years ago.
[*=left]I2a2a2 (L701+) has a very wide distribution. It is found in all Central Europe from Germany and the former Austrian Empire to Poland, Romania and Ukraine, but also in lower frequencies in Greece, Italy, France, Spain, England, Ireland, and Armenia. It could have been disseminated in part by the Goths. It is conspicuously absent from Scandinavia and Scotland. L701+ matches the I2 Continental 3 clade at Family Tree DNA.
[*=left]I2a2a3 (Z161+) is commonly known as the I2 Continental clade (except Continental 3). It is the largest of the four subclades of I2a2a and is found predominantly in Germanic countries, with a particularly high concentration in Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, England and in Northwest Sicily (Norman settlement). It is also found at lower densities throughout the rest of Europe, from Portugal to Russia. I2-Z161 is thought to have been propagated around Europe by the Danish Vikings (Britain, Normandy, Sicily), the Swedish Vikings (Baltic, Russia, Ukraine), the Goths (Moldova, Balkans, Italy, south-west France, Spain), the Suebi (Portugal and Galicia), the Lombards (attested by a hotspot in Campobasso, Molise), and the Franks (Rhineland, Belgium).
[*=left]I2a2a4 (L1229+) is typical of England, Normandy (and other parts of France) as well as central and northern Germany. It is also found among English surnames in Ireland, although not Norman ones (but rather Anglo-Saxon ones). Its much higher density in Germany and England than in Denmark or France, and its absence from Sicily, indicate that it is probably an Anglo-Saxon lineage rather than Norman/Viking.


04-05-16, 04:36
Actually, S185 is another name for the SNP L161.1. Most places, this is now called I2a1b1, so Maleth's description isn't the right one. You're after: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml#I2a1b

Haplogroup I2a1b-L161.1 Commonly known in genetic genealogy circles as "I2-M423-Isles", L161.1 is found at highest frequencies in western Ireland (5-10%) and the Scottish Highlands (1-5%), but is also found at low frequencies (> 1%) throughout Central and Western Europe, from Latvia, Lithuania and Belarus to the British Isles, and from Scandinavia to north-western Spain. It has also been found in Albania, northern Greece, Bulgaria and Romania.

Overall the distribution of I2a-L161.1 is somewhat reminiscent of the extent of Germanic migrations. Its close phylogenetic relation to I2a-L621 branch means that L161.1 was probably absorbed early by the Indo-European migrations too. Its higher concentration in western Poland and northern Germany hint at an absorption by the western sweep of the Corded Ware culture. Around 2400 BCE the Corded Ware culture in Germany, Bohemia and western Poland was overrun by the Unetice culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture), which represents the advance of R1b branch of Proto-Indo-Europeans from Southeast Europe. From then on, I2a-L161.1 would have been able to spread to Western Europe with the Proto-Celts (most probably the R1b-L21 (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#L21) branch) and to Scandinavia with the Proto-Germanics (chiefly R1b-S21 (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#S21-U106)). That would explain why I2a-L621 seem to correlate with the distribution of R1b-L21 (like in Ireland, Scotland and Brittany) on the one hand, but also with all regions settled by Germanic people.

04-05-16, 10:40
He must be descendent of some Germanic migrations?

04-05-16, 14:49
He must be descendent of some Germanic migrations?

Its not common in Sicily and I would presume (according to Sparkey link) is more connected to a more recent entry probably connected to the Norman maybe more and more with Hohenstaufen Period?. Its known that some Lombards have settled in Eastern Sicily during the Norman period too. (I have no idea of the frequencies of this subclade in Normandy or Lombards of the period. Just guessing (who did they test with? Can they join any project)

04-05-16, 17:29
Uhm nothing project afaik

06-05-16, 22:28
Loschbour is the oldest node on the yfull tree for M423 who lived in western Europe (pre-IE). These I2-M423 were men loosely populated across Europe from Belarus to Belgium after the LGM.

The Bulgarian L161 cluster is related to the western European one and may be the result of west to east movements of people perhaps with Celtic/IE speakers. It seems the cluster identifies as Thracian origin. The east European cluster L621 is old, but the recent explosion is much, much younger and is typically found in the Balkans, most likely originating in NE Europe (Poland, Belarus) and spreading SW with Slavic migrations.

You can see the different groups here


16-05-16, 01:01
Mercenaries in the Byzantine army?it is not common in this part of Europe.