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Angela
11-06-16, 16:27
Strictly for fun, could you guys take a stab at "classifying her"? This combination puzzles me.

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_200_200/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAVRAAAAJDk1MmE3YWYzLWYxYmMtNGRmZi04OG MyLWQ0ZWQ4OTMwN2Y1OA.jpghttp://www.theatre-contemporain.net/images/upload/jpg/f-f3e-5508341912934.jpg




Would different pigmentation change the classification?

Kisuan
11-06-16, 20:51
Hmmm..."Alpine?" Does she come from Northern Italy or maybe Western-Central Europe?

Kisuan
11-06-16, 22:28
Hmm..actually, coming to think of it..it seems like there could be something "exotic" in her. I can't say for certain. Is she ethnically pure? I doubt my geographical localization of her.

Sakattack
11-06-16, 23:08
French? Maybe Basque.

Sent from my Robin

Yetos
11-06-16, 23:30
colour of eyes hair. above the eyes looks like Greek, or mediterenean genereally,
nose from photo #1 also seems Greek-celtic mix, but on #4 seems Slavic,
the wide mandible shows a north admixture, possible from Germany, or elsewhere above Danube
while the chin is not 'dimpled'
She can be from Armenia Iran and Lebanon/Syria till Spain S France England.
she has long neck, but big head

a closer land area is Greece Italy mainly by her eyes,
most possible is N Italy and S France and secondary N Balkans, cause the Germanic Slavic admixture which is obvious

Captain Nordic
12-06-16, 03:22
Alpine + med.

Dagne
12-06-16, 06:23
She looks Italian for me

bicicleur
12-06-16, 14:30
Italian, maybe Spanish or French Provence

Angela
12-06-16, 14:48
I noticed her because she's an actress in the excellent French television series "Une Village Francais" that I'm currently watching. Her name appears on the thumb nails when you enlarge them. When I googled her, though, all it says is that she's a French stage actress from Limoges. Yet the name "Miguel", while a given name, not a surname, would imply at least some Spanish ancestry. Yet she doesn't look Spanish to me.

I'd agree with parts of France and Italy as the most likely places where this particular "look" would be found. It's more the "type" I was looking for, and maybe Nordo-Med is the closest for that. I don't think she's "Atlanto-Med", if I understand that classification correctly, because of the facial structure, especially the jaw. I don't think Alpine works either, although there may be influences of it, because of the nose and facial structure. I agree you can definitely see the Mediterranean in her, mostly in the eyes and nose. It would help if the head shape was clearer, but all that hair obstructs the view. Still, she doesn't look extremely short headed. Fwiw, I find her skin pigmentation a little odd whatever the "classification". It's not "olive" really, but it's rather dark. I thought it could be a tan but it's the same in every picture I saw. I know northern Italians who look quite a bit like her, but their pigmentation is closer to someone like Gillian Kearney, with hair that's a little lighter:
http://waytofamous.com/images/gillian-kearney-08.jpg

Or maybe Carrie Ann Moss:
http://www.moviestarspicture.com/photos/carrie-anne-moss/thumbs/thumbs_carrie-ann-moss-photos-gallery.jpg

I think she shows why these "classifications" don't work in real life. A lot of people are a blend of influences from various migrations, even if certain particular "blends" are found most commonly in certain areas.

Btw, I think a French alpine would probably look more like Marion Cotillard:
http://diesemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/marion-cotillard.png

Yetos
12-06-16, 16:27
so Alpine people do not have dimpled chin.

Maleth
12-06-16, 16:57
Strictly for fun, could you guys take a stab at "classifying her"? This combination puzzles me.

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_200_200/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAVRAAAAJDk1MmE3YWYzLWYxYmMtNGRmZi04OG MyLWQ0ZWQ4OTMwN2Y1OA.jpghttp://www.theatre-contemporain.net/images/upload/jpg/f-f3e-5508341912934.jpg




Would different pigmentation change the classification?

As soon as I saw the picture I thought Italian, but of course could also fall well under Spanish then 3rdly would have gone for French :)

Angela
12-06-16, 16:59
so Alpine people do not have dimpled chin.

You mean a cleft chin, like this? (He was just the first picture that came up.)
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.77796.1313837107!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/gal-buttchin-5-jpg.jpg

I didn't know it was particularly predominant in any one area of Europe. A lot of American actors, who are heavily Northern European, have them, but then so does the man I married, who's southern Italian.

Maciamo
12-06-16, 17:20
For the pictures in the OP, I would say that she could be North Italian or South French.


You mean a cleft chin, like this? (He was just the first picture that came up.)
I didn't know it was particularly predominant in any one area of Europe. A lot of American actors, who are heavily Northern European, have them, but then so does the man I married, who's southern Italian.

I have long wondered where cleft chin is more common and where it could have originated. It's extremely rare in Belgium and France. I can't even think of anyone I know who has one (at least a clearly defined one like in the above picture). I have travelled extensively all over Europe and have friends or acquaintances in every country, but I couldn't identify any region where it was common. I have also noticed that it is much more common among Americans (actors only?), which makes m wonder if it could be a founder effect in the early colonists or even a recent sexual selection (or both) ?

Yetos
12-06-16, 18:02
Don't know about West Europe,

but this 'twin' chin is common among Mediterenean Balkan and far North Norwegians i think

and as i see by the comments it is absent on West Europe,

it would be interesting if sardinians also have it,

that could explain a lot,

Although i think is caucasian mark

anyway, notice that this mark can be hidden by fat or age(dental bonechange), and surely by first plastic/cosmetic surgeaury,


Now you see it
http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/default/files/styles/708x320/public/fasoulas.jpg?itok=EVYvuT-P



NOW YOU DONT
http://www.oneman.gr/keimena/article3535962.ece/BINARY/w620/fasoulas_4.jpg

Angela
12-06-16, 19:39
For the pictures in the OP, I would say that she could be North Italian or South French.

I have long wondered where cleft chin is more common and where it could have originated. It's extremely rare in Belgium and France. I can't even think of anyone I know who has one (at least a clearly defined one like in the above picture). I have travelled extensively all over Europe and have friends or acquaintances in every country, but I couldn't identify any region where it was common. I have also noticed that it is much more common among Americans (actors only?), which makes m wonder if it could be a founder effect in the early colonists or even a recent sexual selection (or both) ?

I wonder if it's all that common anywhere; the only person I've ever known who had a really pronounced one is my husband. Well, his sister also has it but not quite so pronounced.

The fact so many actors have it may indeed be a function of sexual selection. I think in America it came from Great Britain by and large, though.

These are British actors.

Lawrence Olivier:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbuszpv4e71r0a4hso1_500.jpg

Cary Grant:
http://www.leninimports.com/cary_grant_gallery_new_6.jpg

Jude Law:
http://starcrush.com/files/2013/08/jude-law1.jpg

Timothy Dalton:
http://cdn1.theodysseyonline.com/files/2014/12/05/635534014888069487-1461739939_JB4TD.jpg

The list goes on and on: Henry Cavill, Ewan McGregor, Patrick Stewart, Adele...

Then there are all the famous Americans who had or have it:
Clark Gable (mostly southern German I think, but a lot of British Isles ancestry too), James Mitchum, Kirk Douglas (100% Ashkenazi), Ben Affleck (lots of Irish), Ashton Kutcher (I don't know what he is), John Travolta (half Irish/half Italian), Jim Carrey (British Isles), Chevy Chase, Aaron Eckhart (German and British?), Sandra Bullock (all German ancestry I think) Viggo Mortensen (Norwegian?)...

There is John Stamos, though, half Greek and half Italian, and John Cassavetes, who was all Greek, who had it.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/criterion-production/product_images/483-06db160c9f022419d1b716c0270be8b7/Film_250w_Cassavetes_original.jpg

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr05/2013/7/5/19/enhanced-buzz-31833-1373066723-10.jpg

It does seem to go with good looks in my book, fwiw.

Gabriel Garko, the Italian actor, has one:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/51/6a/c8/516ac897a3d0d25af69a8a4dfb7c18d2.jpg

Raoul Bova has a slight one too, but then he would, because he's perfect. :)

http://www.guardavalle.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/20100304_raul_bova.jpg

So did Marcello Mastroianni and Sophia Loren, I think.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Tz-safK6u8s/U_HvAXNB-dI/AAAAAAABvos/Z2TSBuCVwow/s1600/Marcello%2BMastroianni%2BQuotes-1.jpg

http://www.oldpicz.com/picz/2016/02/sophia-loren-young-6.jpg

So, I don't know where it started, but I think maybe it's more common in the British Isles, at least the more pronounced ones? Or no?

Angela
12-06-16, 19:49
Don't know about West Europe,

but this 'twin' chin is common among Mediterenean Balkan and far North Norwegians i think

and as i see by the comments it is absent on West Europe,

it would be interesting if sardinians also have it,

that could explain a lot,

Although i think is caucasian mark

anyway, notice that this mark can be hidden by fat or age(dental bonechange), and surely by first plastic/cosmetic surgeaury,


Now you see it
http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/default/files/styles/708x320/public/fasoulas.jpg?itok=EVYvuT-P



NOW YOU DONT
http://www.oneman.gr/keimena/article3535962.ece/BINARY/w620/fasoulas_4.jpg

There's quite a bit of it in the British Isles, but not among people who look like what the physical anthropologists called the "UP survivors", so Mediterranean admixed, maybe?

However, the only Sardinian celebrity who has even a slight one is Elisabetta Canalis:

http://cdnph.upi.com/sv/b/upi/UPI-5521410786348/2014/1/98243dc5aef4ce2ecbc0c13d3c3d5b6d/Elisabetta-Canalis-Brian-Perri-wed-in-Italy.jpg

When I see it in Italians it's usually not very pronounced, and you can see it only at certain angles. I don't know where my husband's family got it, although the grandparent he most resembled was "Dinaric" looking, in the light brown haired, light eyed version.

Yetos
12-06-16, 23:32
I guess then, could come from SW Asia or Caucasus, since the absence in Sardinia or other palaiolithic populations might lead us to Neolithic populations,
Ι Do not deny that is strong in Dinaric Alps, but not only, through out Greece and minor Asian Greeks also, especially at Greeks wich we call Iones,


http://www.hit-channel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/%CE%A3%CF%84%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82-%CE%94%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%BD%CF%85%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%BF%C F%85-2.jpg
known minor Asian Greek singer



anyway is strong in my family,
and we born half blonde/.half light brown, but we end as dark brown after around 12,
also brown to red is not rare, mainly women take that colour

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://www.hellenica.de/Griechenland/Antike/Portraits/Bios/PtolemyISoterLouvreMa849.jpg

Ptolemaios Soter

http://www.protothema.gr/Images/ImageHandler.ashx?m=Fit&f=Ly8xMC4yMDEuMTAuMjMwL3Byd2ViZGF0YS9maWxlcy8xLzIw MTUvMDIvMTEvdHppb2xpaXMtcGFvay1zaW1lcmEuanBn&t=0&w=1000&h=1000






http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gif

Fire Haired14
13-06-16, 13:23
Middle East. I've seen Iranians who look just like that.

Angela
13-06-16, 17:03
Middle East. I've seen Iranians who look just like that.

Permit me to doubt that a teen-ager in Chicago could have any basis of comparison since I doubt there's a lot of Iranians, or even French people, Spaniards, or Northern Italians living there. Most Hispanics are racially admixed. Are you taking lessons from Sikeliot, the basement amateur anthropologist on theapricity?

Second of all, the eyes are totally off for Iranians, who have much bigger eyes, and the coloring as well. The combination of features and pigmentation does not at all "spell" Iranian. Europeans have an eye for what other Europeans look like. This actress looks either French, Spanish or Italian. This woman looks like a southern European, and her name shows she probably has Spanish ancestry.

Angela
13-06-16, 17:10
I guess then, could come from SW Asia or Caucasus, since the absence in Sardinia or other palaiolithic populations might lead us to Neolithic populations,
Ι Do not deny that is strong in Dinaric Alps, but not only, through out Greece and minor Asian Greeks also, especially at Greeks wich we call Iones,


http://www.hit-channel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/%CE%A3%CF%84%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82-%CE%94%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%BD%CF%85%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%BF%C F%85-2.jpg
known minor Asian Greek singer



anyway is strong in my family,
and we born half blonde/.half light brown, but we end as dark brown after around 12,
also brown to red is not rare, mainly women take that colour

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://www.hellenica.de/Griechenland/Antike/Portraits/Bios/PtolemyISoterLouvreMa849.jpg

Ptolemaios Soter

http://www.protothema.gr/Images/ImageHandler.ashx?m=Fit&f=Ly8xMC4yMDEuMTAuMjMwL3Byd2ViZGF0YS9maWxlcy8xLzIw MTUvMDIvMTEvdHppb2xpaXMtcGFvay1zaW1lcmEuanBn&t=0&w=1000&h=1000






http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gif
On every calculator or other admixture analysis I've ever seen the Sardinians score a significant amount of southwest Asian. They don't score very much "West Asian", so Caucasus may be a possibility for this "cleft chin".

However, it's so much more common in the Celtic fringe and Scandinavia, areas that have very little "West Asian", but so much "Indo-European", that it indicates to me that perhaps if it is Caucasus related it would have come with the Indo-Europeans. However, I don't know that it's at all common in the Caucasus, so I don't know.

There does seem to be, as Maciamo suggested, some sexual selection going on.

Angela
13-06-16, 23:22
Just for some context, these three women have important roles in the series and have French surnames:

http://php88.free.fr/bdff/film/2002/0025/08/Nade%20Dieu%20(1).jpg

http://medias.unifrance.org/medias/239/205/52719/format_affiche/nade-dieu.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/459253654-actress-constance-dolle-presents-the-series-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QY8w7bgZVQENhCxKWTA5V9e%2BZP N8TV7fMm7zBvdYj7acsTEuchZPixBcjJQAisNH0djacZd%2BYH dwL0a2dgSBnFs%3D

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Audrey_Fleurot_2014.jpg

This one also has a major role, but the surname isn't French. Her name is Marie Kremer.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5320897427_2571315b6b.jpg

Fire Haired14
14-06-16, 01:49
Permit me to doubt that a teen-ager in Chicago could have any basis of comparison since I doubt there's a lot of Iranians, or even French people, Spaniards, or Northern Italians living there. Most Hispanics are racially admixed. Are you taking lessons from Sikeliot, the basement amateur anthropologist on theapricity?

Second of all, the eyes are totally off for Iranians, who have much bigger eyes, and the coloring as well. The combination of features and pigmentation does not at all "spell" Iranian. Europeans have an eye for what other Europeans look like. This actress looks either French, Spanish or Italian. This woman looks like a southern European, and her name shows she probably has Spanish ancestry.

Whoo settle down. I gave my opinion that was it. I'm not claiming to have superior knowledge.

srdceleva
10-07-16, 01:09
i would say she looks greek or possibly armenian.

Drvan
04-08-16, 19:53
alpinid, iberia/italy.

DuPidh
04-08-16, 22:53
Just for some context, these three women have important roles in the series and have French surnames:

http://php88.free.fr/bdff/film/2002/0025/08/Nade%20Dieu%20(1).jpg

http://medias.unifrance.org/medias/239/205/52719/format_affiche/nade-dieu.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/459253654-actress-constance-dolle-presents-the-series-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QY8w7bgZVQENhCxKWTA5V9e%2BZP N8TV7fMm7zBvdYj7acsTEuchZPixBcjJQAisNH0djacZd%2BYH dwL0a2dgSBnFs%3D

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Audrey_Fleurot_2014.jpg

This one also has a major role, but the surname isn't French. Her name is Marie Kremer.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5320897427_2571315b6b.jpg
The first women has strong Germanic features even though as you say she is French. The third one should be from Bretain province, with that Celtic look.Two last one also have Germanic look for most part

Angela
04-08-16, 23:58
The first women has strong Germanic features even though as you say she is French. The third one should be from Bretain province, with that Celtic look.Two last one also have Germanic look for most part

The first two pictures are of the same woman. I don't think she's particularly German looking. The second one looks French to me, period.

You can find Mediterranean types in France as well as more northwestern and central European types and blends as well. That's reflected in the genetics, so the "Lyons" French numbers are different from the southwest French numbers. Were more regions represented it would be even more obvious.

Maurice Chevalier:
http://lyricstranslate.com/files/maurice-chevalier-1930.jpg

Louis Jourdan
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/find-a-grave-prod/photos/2015/45/142652919_1424034888.jpg

One of my favorites: Alain Delon

http://images.askmen.com/fashion/style_icon/54b_alain-delon-style-icon.jpg
I just noticed it, but I think he has a bit of the look of Gabriel Garko to him.


Charles Boyer:
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-frenchborn-american-actor-charles-boyer-knocking-on-a-door-in-the-picture-id154073450


Vincent Cassel-not handsome, but he has something:
http://www.moviestarspicture.com/photos/vincent-cassel/vincent-cassel-young-pics.jpg

There's an awful lot of Alpines in France.

From the series: Thierry Godard:
http://cinema.nicematin.com/fichier/image/redac/image/3/6/1/3614f34838f4e518b8a5e5f399a15f2daced2ce2.jpg

Francois Loriquet:
http://diffusionph.cccommunication.biz/jpgok/RepGR/369/369894_9.jpg


Martin Loizillon-I like his character; he's the resistance leader.
http://www.dailymars.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/martin-loizillon.jpg


Many of the others have ancestry from other places: Robin Menucci plays the town doctor, my favorite character, except for his tolerance of his adulterous wife, and one of the "heroes"...

http://images.telerama.fr/medias/2013/10/media_103388/robin-renucci,M130087.jpg

The German parts are mostly played by German actors. They look quite different even when the coloring is the same.

Here are the two opposing forces: the evil and the good. The series is very satisfying in that way: there's no confusion about the sides.
http://images.allocine.fr/medias/nmedia/18/81/96/09/19587352.jpg

As for an actress specifically from southern France: Audrey Toutou.
http://imalbum.aufeminin.com/album/D20121023/audrey-tautou-885181_H104118_L.jpg

Carlos
05-08-16, 01:34
Strictly for fun, could you guys take a stab at "classifying her"? This combination puzzles me.

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_200_200/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAVRAAAAJDk1MmE3YWYzLWYxYmMtNGRmZi04OG MyLWQ0ZWQ4OTMwN2Y1OA.jpghttp://www.theatre-contemporain.net/images/upload/jpg/f-f3e-5508341912934.jpg




Would different pigmentation change the classification?
I think it may be a mixture of Italian with Greek, comes to my head the Rape of the Sabines.:wary2: I think it's a mixture, Celtic something else.

Angela
05-08-16, 01:42
I think it may be a mixture of Italian with Greek, comes to my head the Rape of the Sabines.:wary2: I think it's a mixture, Celtic something else.

How did the Greeks get into the admixture of the Sabines and the Romans?

I agree she shows admixture, but everyone in Europe is admixed, although there's more variation in southern Europe.

Other than her "fitting" in the Near East, I think Yetos came closest.

Twilight
05-08-16, 12:28
How did the Greeks get into the admixture of the Sabines and the Romans?

I agree she shows admixture, but everyone in Europe is admixed, although there's more variation in southern Europe.

Other than her "fitting" in the Near East, I think Yetos came closest.

The Ancient Greeks were adventurous colonizers of the Mediterranean in Antiquity especially the Phocaeans, colonizing places that would one day become parts of the Roman Empire and around the Black Sea. The Greeks also set up a colony in Italy called Magna Graecia. Some Greek colonies were even founded by the vanquished; either from invasion or civil wars between different tribes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocaea
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonies_in_antiquity

Italians and Greeks have been genetically tightly knit ever since until at least the Dark Ages/Middle Age invasions into the Mediterranean. Both Sabine, Italian and Greeks I could imagine be confused with each other.

As for my shot at guessing probably Northern Italian/French

Angela
06-08-16, 16:39
The Ancient Greeks were adventurous colonizers of the Mediterranean in Antiquity especially the Phocaeans, colonizing places that would one day become parts of the Roman Empire and around the Black Sea. The Greeks also set up a colony in Italy called Magna Graecia. Some Greek colonies were even founded by the vanquished; either from invasion or civil wars between different tribes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocaea
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonies_in_antiquity

Italians and Greeks have been genetically tightly knit ever since until at least the Dark Ages/Middle Age invasions into the Mediterranean. Both Sabine, Italian and Greeks I could imagine be confused with each other.

As for my shot at guessing probably Northern Italian/French

We agree as to the bolded statement. As to the latter I think she looks Spanish as well, as would make sense as she has a Spanish surname, but more northern Spanish. When I studied in Barcelona for a semester I traveled quite a bit. I liked the northern parts of Spain in particular. In places like inland northern Spain, like Zaragoza, Burgos, for example, if all the people had been mute, I might have thought at times I was home in Italy in Liguria or Emilia etc.

Carlos
06-08-16, 17:31
https://br.linkedin.com/in/l%C3%A9a-miguel-6b5a9998

Léa Miguel (France)

Miguel surname of Galician origin is set in different parts of Spain and even France specifically in Marseille.

Carlos
06-08-16, 17:48
Another Miguel artist, I stay dead, is a woman or a goddess?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbZhHfksN_o

MOESAN
12-08-16, 13:52
I come when the battle is over, it's easier!
If I had made guesses I would have said like someones here: 1) Central Northern Italian (woman) or South-Central French, before 2) other southern countries; not typically 'mediterranean', either from West or East.
Agree with Angela: her eyes colour is very rare among Near-Easterners and Iranians - could be genetically the result of a mix of dark brown eyes and common blue eyes genes coders.
for bones, her face evocates to me a mix where gracile western 'mediterranean' is mixed with something inherited from older forms with 'cromagnoid' trends (gracilized of course) plus some 'alpine' trend. (the true 'alpine type is very harmonious concerning face and skull proportions contrary to 'cromagnoid' spite they could have a common far origin) - this woman's face is a bit too large.
the notch of cleft in the chin is not too common in Europe but is not so rare. For I suppose, it seems more often associated with thick skin and broad (squared) and a bit shallow inferior jaws, so evocating some 'cromagnoid' heritage for me. It's found among Western Norwegian (very less 'nordiclike' than the most of other Norwegians and Swedes. Not so rare among Danes, irishmen and common enough among typical Welshmen. But the 'cromagnoid' heritage, spite rare enough as a whole, is absent of no European regions, and even is found among Iranians, Armenians, Caucasians. I wonder if it is not well present too among Italians of Napoli region. All the way, very common nowhere, and absent nowhere, for I think.
@Maciamo: the actors are the worst examples to be taken for ethnic illustration, and are - as Politicians - very often of foreign origin in the countries they are taken as example: always the question of social success for a few percentage of combative migrants and the snobism of "exoticness". Even for genuine "aborigenes" of the country, the selection explain the succes of some physical features for actors, thing which can change by time as modes pass.
Personal bets without guarantee

Angela
12-08-16, 15:16
Come late to the party anytime; you've nailed it, imo. :) It's the combination of western Mediterranean and cm that explains most of her phenotype. It's a look I've seen more than once at home, although usually the skin tone is lighter. That's what struck me when I saw the series. I just didn't know how to describe it. Fwiw, that's the color of my eyes, and I've always thought it was a combination of my dad's light eyes and my mother's dark brown ones.

You're right about Napoli; I've seen the cleft chin there. You can barely see it in this famous Neapolitan woman, but it's much less pronounced in most women anyway. Anyway, both he and his sister got it from their Neapolitan grandmother, although deeper in his case.
http://alainelkanninterviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/sophia-loren-1934-granger-206x300.jpg

Likewise as to the fact that actors represent what is being "selected for" or considered attractive in certain eras, (although unless they're comedians, they're almost always more attractive than the average) and so it changes. I associate the wide jaw and cleft chin with masculinity, and I think actors of, say, the 30's, 40's, 50's, had a much more masculine look than the actors today, and so you see much more of it in actors of that era.

I know actors don't necessarily represent the most common phenotype of their countries, at least not if they're playing romantic leads, but still, French and Italian actors don't usually look like American actors. I think that's one reason I still watch so many French and Italian and Spanish (and Greek if I can find them) films and television shows; the people seem more familiar to me than the people in a lot of American and British dramas, even after all these years. Plus, I don't feel bad about posting their pictures without their consent; they've sort of agreed to give up their privacy. :) If it weren't for wanting to protect their privacy, I'd post my whole family and all my friends so I could get your expert opinion!

Thanks to everyone who participated, by the way...lots of great answers, and I really appreciated the input.


@Carlos,
The other Miguel is wonderful, Carlos; she's like a force of nature. She's a very different type in terms of looks, however.

Here's a northern Italian who has a similar kind of facial structure, I think: Irene Fornaciari, singer herself and daughter of singer Zucchero Fornaciari.

http://www.allmusicitalia.it/wp-content/uploads/IRENE-FORNACIARI_Foto-di-Angelo-Trani_D101985_b.jpg

Maciamo
12-08-16, 16:27
Just for some context, these three women have important roles in the series and have French surnames:

http://php88.free.fr/bdff/film/2002/0025/08/Nade%20Dieu%20(1).jpg

http://medias.unifrance.org/medias/239/205/52719/format_affiche/nade-dieu.jpg



I know a Belgian woman who looks just like her. This type is also common in the northern half of France.

[Edit] I googled her name and she is Belgian. No surprise.



http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/459253654-actress-constance-dolle-presents-the-series-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QY8w7bgZVQENhCxKWTA5V9e%2BZP N8TV7fMm7zBvdYj7acsTEuchZPixBcjJQAisNH0djacZd%2BYH dwL0a2dgSBnFs%3D



As French as it gets.




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Audrey_Fleurot_2014.jpg


I would have said British, or perhaps Dutch.




This one also has a major role, but the surname isn't French. Her name is Marie Kremer.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5320897427_2571315b6b.jpg

Could look Belgian, Northeast French or (Rhineland) German. Btw, Kremer is a common surname in Lorraine and Luxembourg, but is also found in Belgium. I looked her up and she is actually Belgian.

Pax Augusta
18-08-16, 20:03
Here's a northern Italian who has a similar kind of facial structure, I think: Irene Fornaciari, singer herself and daughter of singer Zucchero Fornaciari.

http://www.allmusicitalia.it/wp-content/uploads/IRENE-FORNACIARI_Foto-di-Angelo-Trani_D101985_b.jpg

Zucchero Fornaciari is northern Italian (Emilian) but Irene's mother is central Italian (Tuscan); Irene was born in Tuscany where her mother raised her, her parents separated after her birth. I don't know if she considers herself Emilian like her father, Tuscan like her mother or both. Zucchero lives in Tuscany as well.

Irene younger...

http://www.sdamy.com/images/gallery/irene-fornacciari/irene-fornacciari6.jpg

http://www.nonsolocinema.com/IMG/jpg/VMA_Irene_Fornaciari_figlia_di_Zucchero_W.jpg

More recent pic

http://static.televisionando.it/televisionando/fotogallery/1200X0/169551/irene-fornaciari-durante-un-viaggio.jpg

Angela
18-08-16, 23:01
Yes, I know...last I heard he still has the property outside Pontremoli that he's had for ever. I think his father moved them to Carrara when he was young. If he spits he can practically hit Emilia from Pontremoli, so not much of a change. :) I've seen Irene in Pontremoli a lot in the summer, him too, but I thought she now lived in Genova.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CmPhrfUdg

Anyway...your point was? My categorization of her as northern Italian doesn't suit your exacting standards?

The point was whether she is of a similar type, yes? Your opinion?

Fwiw she looks a lot like one of my full Emilian cousins, only my cousin didn't let herself get fat like that...same once really red hair, freckles, blue eyes, and even the same height and big bones. I didn't get any of it, except the paleness and the face shape. My rather square jaw is not my favorite feature.

Angela
19-08-16, 00:33
Yes, I know...last I heard he still has the property outside Pontremoli that he's had for ever. I think his father moved them to Carrara when he was young. If he spits he can practically hit Emilia from Pontremoli, so not much of a change. :) I've seen Irene in Pontremoli a lot in the summer, him too, but I thought she now lived in Genova.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CmPhrfUdg

Anyway...your point was? My categorization of her as northern Italian doesn't suit your exacting standards?

The point was whether she is of a similar type, yes? Your opinion?

Fwiw she looks a lot like one of my full Emilian cousins, only my cousin didn't let herself get fat like that...same once really red hair, freckles, blue eyes, and even the same height and big bones. I didn't get any of it, except the paleness and the face shape. My rather square jaw is not my favorite feature.

Poor Irene, some of the pictures posted are really unflattering. Here she is when her weight is under control...quite familiar body type for that area....
http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/Irene_Fornaciari.jpg

Here is a good profile picture of her:
http://www.radiowebitalia.it/wp-content/flagallery/irene-fornaciari/webview/irene-fornaciari4.jpg

In some pictures I think she and Wynona Judd share a bit of a resemblance. She's half Italian by the way.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e5/96/c8/e596c8bd81d1f8ca3faa99c0339fa245.jpg

Here is Irene performing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K0ioyS5PYk

Pax Augusta
24-08-16, 03:58
Yes, I know...last I heard he still has the property outside Pontremoli that he's had for ever. I think his father moved them to Carrara when he was young. If he spits he can practically hit Emilia from Pontremoli, so not much of a change. :) I've seen Irene in Pontremoli a lot in the summer, him too, but I thought she now lived in Genova.

Correct, she lives in Genova. Genova is the hometown of her boyfriend who is a musician as well.


Anyway...your point was? My categorization of her as northern Italian doesn't suit your exacting standards?

The point was whether she is of a similar type, yes? Your opinion?

Fwiw she looks a lot like one of my full Emilian cousins, only my cousin didn't let herself get fat like that...same once really red hair, freckles, blue eyes, and even the same height and big bones. I didn't get any of it, except the paleness and the face shape. My rather square jaw is not my favorite feature.

Sure, Irene looks very northern Italian and she is a somewhat similar type to the previous example. But I've seen faces as hers also in Northern Tuscany, at least up to Lucca-Pistoia. She very much reminds a person I know who comes from that area. I think that among Emilian and Tuscan Apennines there have been small but continuous migrations over the centuries.

MOESAN
25-08-16, 12:19
Poor Irene, some of the pictures posted are really unflattering. Here she is when her weight is under control...quite familiar body type for that area....
http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/Irene_Fornaciari.jpg

Here is a good profile picture of her:
http://www.radiowebitalia.it/wp-content/flagallery/irene-fornaciari/webview/irene-fornaciari4.jpg

In some pictures I think she and Wynona Judd share a bit of a resemblance. She's half Italian by the way.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e5/96/c8/e596c8bd81d1f8ca3faa99c0339fa245.jpg

Here is Irene performing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K0ioyS5PYk

Wynona Judd evocates me some Irish women too. No contradiction.
Her head seems a bit larger than the Iren's one. The two had broad and rather square jaws, typical for 'cromanoid' and 'borrreby' (the A for my classification); 'alpine' as a whole is more reduced in jaw. Here, Irene seems closer to 'cro-magnon' pattern because her skull appears to me narrow enough, at least in the frontal part. But it seems Alps were could have been the place where some of the 'cro-magnoids' evolved towards diverse brachycephalized types and the frontiers in the regions of "creation" are not always clear . By the way a lot of Italians of the North Appenines would have Alps ancestors, maybe in more than a wave, before and with Ligurians (ancient) or close people. DNA and History would confirm this, but people here know more details than me.
Only bets upon pictures which show us how angles of sight can change the feeling we have about physical features, without speaking of the fat!
My personal thought concerning genetic traits is that things are abit more complicated than believed, and "teached" in vulgarization papers. By example, the hair colour of body seen as a whole is mistaking; pigmentation of hairs varies not only between whole head hairs and body hairs and beard and eyebrows, but even the head hairs can be splitted in several "surfaces" (top # vertical branch of beard associated with periauricular region, at least; moustaches associated with a triangle under the mouth are often of a different colour than the horizontal part of the beard itself different from the vertical branch (cheeks). Sorry for my poor english concerning some body parts! It's very possible that, apart from global "pure type" pigmentation, a common sub-pattern could exist concerning beard, a sexual trait. It's true as a whole that homogeneity on the same man is the rule in some countries where a type of pigmentation is very dominant, less in very "admixted" ones; effects of crossing-over I suppose.
Same for the skull: after having observed a lot of people and very amazing dysharmonious skulls, it seems evident to me that we inherit our skull shapes by a kit of "bits" rather than a simple "bit". It seems too it occurs more in old pops with ancient crossings compared to ones with more recent crossings. It's not offical science but it's observations.

Nik
25-08-16, 14:14
When I saw her pictures I thought immediately South-Eastern Spain, as I know a lady who looks very similar to her living in Malaga but with Basque heritage.

Angela
30-08-16, 01:10
I was just listening to this Italian singer....Fiorella Mannoia...and was wondering if anyone knows why red hair is so frequently very curly. I know it's a little off topic but I didn't want to start a whole thread for it. She's really depigmented...even her eyes have no color.

http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/wp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/FIORELLA-MANNOIA.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Fiorella_Mannoia.jpg/180px-Fiorella_Mannoia.jpg
She has that tall, big-boned thing going on too.

I swore I wouldn't put up family pictures, but I was speaking to my cousin today and she said she wouldn't mind. I'll take it down pretty soon...It's a similar look, I think.

Photo removed

Carlos
21-10-16, 00:25
Not to open another thread. I'm trying to approach my autosomal DNA, if they are so kind to classify my paternal grandmother, thanks in advance.

Carlos
12-02-17, 04:08
Nadie me ha hecho caso, why?

Angela
12-02-17, 15:41
It probably got buried, Carlos.

I'd say Atlanto-Med probably or just Med if I were to step into classification territory, which I don't normally like to do.

In any event she looks very southern European to me, although based on the eyes perhaps more Spanish than anything else.