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Maleth
12-06-16, 16:44
23rd June is Referendum day to determine whether Britain will leave or remain in the EU. It seems that there is quite a strong momentum for Britain to Leave the Block irrelevant that financial and now religious institutions are advising the contrary. Will it be really that bad for a few years? until Brexit terms are sorted and new home grown regulations are put in place?

I believe that ultimately Britain will vote to remain in the EU, also I think Britain will do better in the EU rather then out on many fronts. However if it does not, there might be a caution approach from other EU member states to see how Britain will perform outside the Block (we already have the Norwegian and Swiss model however with different circumstances to those in Britain). If Britain really will do better out of the EU then I presume it will trigger a chain reaction of other countries to follow (presumably Scandinavian). I believe the EU itself will not be dismantle and remain a functioning block only with few less countries (that could eventually work better in the long run). Its a long journey and time will tell. We have to wait and see.

What are your opinions about it?

I think this song fits with the subject :grin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ

Yetos
13-06-16, 03:08
nice video Meliteus

an answer to it

Dont know what I want but
I know how to get it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbmWs6Jf5dc


I thought it was the u.k or just
Another country
Another council tenancy

Maleth
13-06-16, 07:12
nice video Meliteus

an answer to it

Dont know what I want but
I know how to get it


I thought it was the u.k or just
Another country
Another council tenancy

Im glad you like the song Yetos. Now regard the 'Never mind the Bollocks' could be an attitude that works

(sometimes :grin:)

Yetos
13-06-16, 07:51
yeap
Sex pistols were always rude,

I am gonna miss Nigel Farage, I liked that guy,
I CAN NOT IMAGINE EURO-PARLIAMENT WITHOUT FARAGE
but neither British roads driving at right current, and car driving wheel at the right

anyway it s their choice, that comes from a voting proccesor,
meaning clear and open transparent desicion,

and as a tribute to the country that both Punk-rock and Heavy metal is borned,
after sex pistols, I pay a tribute with the song that is at 12:24 of the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui2KGJOPun4

STRONG SHE STANDS - REACHING HER HAND , BRAVE AND GRAND
JOIN RAISE YOUR HAND OR HIDE
WHEN WE RIDE FOR THE CROWN
OUR MEETING WITH FATE IS TONIGHT

LeBrok
13-06-16, 08:20
It's better for all if they stay.

Maleth
13-06-16, 08:23
yeap

I am gonna miss Nigel Farage, I liked that guy,

I wont say that too soon. He might still be there for a few more years.....and the pay is really good :)

Yetos
13-06-16, 09:20
What I do not understand is why to exit European Union,
and then enter TTIP treaty,
entering TTIP treaty, is not far for being a member of EU,
at least at economical affairs,

do you believe that UK will not enter TTIP zone?

Maleth
13-06-16, 13:20
What I do not understand is why to exit European Union,
and then enter TTIP treaty,
entering TTIP treaty, is not far for being a member of EU,
at least at economical affairs,

do you believe that UK will not enter TTIP zone?

If not mistaken TTIP is still in negotiation and its between the USA and the EU. I doubt if it will ever take place as there are too many interests and barriers. If it goes through I am not sure if countries with special arrangements with the EU like Norway and Switzerland will be eligible to be part of the treaty? what is for sure that anyone in the world will be more willing to sign up agreements with a block of 742 million people rather then, say a country of 64 million which Britain has at present.

Yetos
13-06-16, 13:47
If not mistaken TTIP is still in negotiation and its between the USA and the EU. I doubt if it will ever take place as there are too many interests and barriers. If it goes through I am not sure if countries with special arrangements with the EU like Norway and Switzerland will be eligible to be part of the treaty? what is for sure that anyone in the world will be more willing to sign up agreements with a block of 742 million people rather then, say a country of 64 million which Britain has at present.

hmm, indeed,
but the status of the world shows that the biggest the country, the biggest the poverty of low classes

Serena
15-06-16, 09:19
I am interested how Brexit would influence rental business in London. Different resources publish opposite forecasts: The Guardian predicts a fall in rental prices if the UK votes to leave the EU (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/19/rents-property-values-drop-after-brexit-landlords-house-prices-eu-referendum). On the other hand, professional brokers (viz. https://tranio.com/) believe that an exit from the EU would not affect the demand/supply imbalance on the real estate market and even if property prices drop 5%, it won’t mean anything for such a hot market like London. I would like to see adequate prices

Maleth
24-06-16, 06:59
Seems like the UK in general has voted to leave the EU. Now the question is will the EU try to find a smooth transition for this to happen? or will it find subtle ways to punish the vote. I believe that finally its not in the EU interest to punish the UK as it can create self inflicting wounds, however not doing so, we are very likely going to see a Scandiexit as the sentiments are very similar to those in Britian at present. Then the Dutch might follow, meaning all want to pull out having favorable economic terms and 'maybe' still open borders with the block, (like Switzerland), but can regulate the policies closer to home in their own parliaments and not from Brussels and without the need to contribute to the EU budget.

There is also the Scottish Issue, who are not particularity happy to be dragged in all this by being ruled from London (So to speak), and Scotland as a country has voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. This in itself is going to create another huge argument for the UK in general.

Interesting times ahead

bicicleur
24-06-16, 09:54
the overpaid European politics has proven its incompetence once again

Boreas
24-06-16, 11:56
They voted for past glory days of British Empire
http://www.bruceonpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Brexit-20-650.jpg

but now Scotland and North Ireland are starting separation movements again.
https://social.yl.ms/proxy/3e/aHR0cHM6Ly9mcmFtYXNwaGVyZS5vcmcvdXBsb2Fkcy9pbWFnZX MvNTk1MzVjMTQyNWU5MTMwZDhhOTIuanBn.jpg

Tomenable
24-06-16, 12:59
Scotland will secede, N. Ireland will join the Rep. of Ireland, so this will be the new UK flag soon:

https://s32.postimg.org/ab83oyzt1/image.png

https://s32.postimg.org/ab83oyzt1/image.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClsdtdvVEAAploj.jpg

Tomenable
24-06-16, 13:57
Bravo Merkel, bravo Germans... - your idiocy chased the UK out of the EU:

http://m2.joe.co.uk/YToyOntzOjQ6ImRhdGEiO3M6MTk5OiJhOjM6e3M6MzoidXJsIj tzOjEzNzoiaHR0cDovL21lZGlhLWpvZWNvdWsubWF4aW11bW1l ZGlhLmllLnMzLmFtYXpvbmF3cy5jb20vd3AtY29udGVudC91cG xvYWRzLzIwMTYvMDYvMTYxMzU4MDkvTmlnZWwtRmFyYWdlLUJy ZWFraW5nLVBvaW50LVBvc3Rlci0xMDI0eDUxNi5qcGciO3M6NT oid2lkdGgiO2k6NjQ3O3M6NjoiaGVpZ2h0IjtpOjM0MDt9Ijtz OjQ6Imhhc2giO3M6NDA6IjRlZTgzMTg0OTBjZDg1YTdjOTkzYW Y5ZWZmMDJjMjg5NjJmN2JiODkiO30=/nigel-farage-breaking-point-poster-1024x516.jpg

Yetos
24-06-16, 14:54
the overpaid European politics has proven its incompetence once again

true, and some of them not even elected.

Tomenable
24-06-16, 15:03
Brexit Party!:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbbyNQZGj8o

Maleth
24-06-16, 15:30
Haha good one :).

LeBrok
24-06-16, 16:31
Seems like its a little too late now. The writing on the wall has been there for a while and been either ignored hoping its just a phase and will just go away. Seems like Europe will have to go back to an economic union as no one really complains about that, but political Union dictated by Brussels has never really been popular, very often insensitive to the people needs, or when the sensitivity arrives it would have caused too much resentment and distress. I'm not sure if EU was more insensitive than most national governments. I think that pendulum has swung towards conservatism and nationalism these days due to slow economy, terrorism and too much immigration. In a decade the populous mood might be way different.
There might be unforeseen circumstances though. Possibly Scotland and North Ireland will separate from GB and jon EU instead? If city of London could have done it they would.


Voting by demographics:
http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/median.png?itok=7cFh1qS-

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cls7vB7WkAATVNI.jpg
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/how-did-different-demographic-groups-vote-eu-referendum

The smart and the young wanted to stay in.

LeBrok
24-06-16, 17:03
They voted for past glory days of British Empire

but now Scotland and North Ireland are starting separation movements again.
https://social.yl.ms/proxy/3e/aHR0cHM6Ly9mcmFtYXNwaGVyZS5vcmcvdXBsb2Fkcy9pbWFnZX MvNTk1MzVjMTQyNWU5MTMwZDhhOTIuanBn.jpg

It says a lot about hypocrisy of English voters who voted to leave.

Maleth
24-06-16, 17:07
Britain was much wealthier within in the EU then when it joined. But that does not seem to matter any more. All taken for granted like many other things in life. The main driving force behind the change that is sweeping across is immigration with the same rhetoric. We have it here too. Foreigners taking our jobs (jobs that clearly locals are not interested to do) Foreigners are keeping our wages low and we cant do anything because Brussels say so. This is what you hear time and time again. No one says how better off we are then we were before we joined the EU. They blame Brussels for it. All have the same argument....including the Trump movement that coincidental (or maybe not) is at par with what is happening in Europe.

LeBrok
24-06-16, 17:13
Encouraging figures re age group, but its done now. Britain has to leave. The EU has to decided whether to punish or not. I think it will not. If it will not others will follow. Besides Scandinavia, Austria is hanging on a piece of string, and France is gaining momentum. Trump can be voted in for the same reasons and that will create a perfect storm. I am not normally pessimistic but I can feel some kind of Third world turmoil (not to call it war). Hopefully it will not get to that. I wouldn't have guessed that conservatism could build up such strength to start ripping EU apart. Or in States possible ripping to pieces all trade agreements and supporting in numbers racist demagogue and hypocrite, who is seen as their savour. It is an indication that people are generally scared these days. Scared of "them" and "the others" and "big bad world" in general. It is a typical human emotional reflex, when you are scared you want to hid and in political terms "separate". More naturally conservative person, the stronger the feeling.

Tomenable
24-06-16, 17:46
Some more maps (blue = Leave, yellow = Remain):

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1819E/production/_90081789_eu_ref_results_map_promo976.png

In London White British areas voted mostly to Leave:

https://s32.postimg.org/wbkr0skph/London.png

Tomenable
24-06-16, 17:48
In Wales Gwynedd and Ceredigion voted to Remain.

In these regions Welsh-speakers are most numerous:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Welsh2011w.png/300px-Welsh2011w.png

sparkey
24-06-16, 17:57
Scotland will secede, N. Ireland will join the Rep. of Ireland, so this will be the new UK flag soon:

https://s32.postimg.org/ab83oyzt1/image.png

https://s32.postimg.org/ab83oyzt1/image.png


The Welsh dragon is a favorite of mine, but that is hideous, and doesn't do tincture correctly. If they're going to mix the Welsh and English flags, it's much better to have the dragon in the canton, or to instead incorporate St. David's cross into the inside or outside of St. George's cross. One of these:

http://i.imgur.com/Yeefwa0.png

(made in Paint in 3 minutes so imagine that they aren't sloppy)

Maleth
24-06-16, 21:56
The Welsh dragon is a favorite of mine, but that is hideous, and doesn't do tincture correctly. If they're going to mix the Welsh and English flags, it's much better to have the dragon in the canton, or to instead incorporate St. David's cross into the inside or outside of St. George's cross. One of these:

http://i.imgur.com/Yeefwa0.png

(made in Paint in 3 minutes so imagine that they aren't sloppy)

coming to think of it now Im seeing this is that wales has never been represented in the Union Jack. Did the Welsh never complain about this?............

Tomenable
24-06-16, 22:24
Sparkey, what about these versions?:

https://s32.postimg.org/p4argcxpx/New_Union_Jack.png

Or maybe:

https://s31.postimg.org/sj0ia34yj/New_Union_Jack_2.png

Maleth
24-06-16, 22:35
Once question that comes to mind. What is going to happen to all the EU nationals (especially Poles who are the largest) that have settled in the UK. I guess we have to wait for the new prime minister (who has backed the leave campaign) to decide their faith. Any people benefiting on social services will be first to go. Others paying taxes might be granted visas or even nationality. Who knows....Its a closed box as the details were never really spilled out really (I think).

Promenade
24-06-16, 23:06
I'm not sure if EU was more insensitive than most national governments. I think that pendulum has swung towards conservatism and nationalism these days due to slow economy, terrorism and too much immigration. In a decade the populous mood might be way different.
There might be unforeseen circumstances though. Possibly Scotland and North Ireland will separate from GB and jon EU instead? If city of London could have done it they would.


Voting by demographics:
http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/median.png?itok=7cFh1qS-

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cls7vB7WkAATVNI.jpg
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/how-did-different-demographic-groups-vote-eu-referendum

The smart and the young wanted to stay in.

I will reply with my same response from the other thread here because you are speaking quite condescendingly and ignoring the deeper trend so that you can make simple pejoratives.

I would say it's a fair assertion to claim that the young wanted to stay in, but this analysis at the end here of "the young and the smart" is quite weak and misses the global trend that is taking place across almost all western countries.

First I want to say that I've seen your posts here Lebrok, it's obvious to me you are an intelligent individual. So there is no need on your part to pretend intelligence or "smarts" is the equivalent of not receiving a higher education. I point this out because it completely misses the point of a very important trend taking place, one which is much more highly correlated with income, the factor you failed to comment on. Western Countries are facing an identity crisis whithin their own populations, the split of which is being created by the two very different lifestyles created by those who have wealth and those without it in an increasingly globalized world.


The upper class establishment of western countries favor the status quo which produces their authority, wealth and lifestyle. They are reared in a much more globalized environment compared to a person of the working class. They grow up in large multi cultural cities without much interaction with the native population other than other people of the upper class.(who may or may not be foreign themselves) When they go on vacation they do not go to the countryside but to foreign countries. These same foreign countries are the places where their families wealth is created. He finds the other elites of Madrid, Berlin, Paris, New York, Los Angeles more familiar to him than his countrymen living in the suburbs around the city he was born.


The working class perspective is much different. Take immigration for example. When an immigrant moves into the country, he moves into the traditional neighborhood of the working class man. The working class man now sees the area he grew up in become a foreign place. He has to compete with this new immigrant for a job and access to healthcare. He has to deal with the crime the immigrants commit in his community which no longer resembles that of his childhood. He has to watch his own culture of the place he called home change before his eyes. Meanwhile the upper class man never experiences any of these factors, they live in a globalized world sheltered from the repercussions the working man has to live with. The upper class man never developed the same sense of home, culture and nationality as the working class man. His culture is that of his class, his home is where he can obtain more wealth and therefore his nationality is global


The elitist education of the upper class leads them to believe they know best for everyone, including the working class of their own country which they know almost nothing about other than that these people "are living in the past". The truth is both groups are living in the same present and that this present has created two very different worlds for people with money and those who work to obtain it. Western countries are now split between the wealthy establishment enforcing a globalist outlook which drives their profit and a resentful working class reacting to the elites in their country ignoring their existence. The only reason we are seeing a shift toward the right wing tendencies is because the elites are now made up of the left, albeit a capitalistic left. The deeper fissure that has created this move toward the right is actually a populist/elitist divide and it's important to understand this.


The issue of Trump in America and Brexit in the UK is a nativist working class reaction to neglect from a globaly minded elite who have ignored the needs of the native working class so much they have radicalized them to an extent. What's interesting to me is the media and the elite do not even see this divide. They have become so obsessed with their elite status and "highly educated" opinion they believe it's sufficient to call everyone who disagrees with them "dumb, racist and ignorant" and that the simple minds of the majority of the population are being coerced by "sensationalism and demagoguery". I mean, why else would they not just do everything the elites wish them to?




Of course I am writing in a biased fashion in favor of the populist outlook. But can anyone blame me when the elites have so thoroughly neglected the opinions of the average citizen in favor for what they stubbornly believe is best for everyone else when in reality they are only self serving?

sparkey
24-06-16, 23:34
coming to think of it now Im seeing this is that wales has never been represented in the Union Jack. Did the Welsh never complain about this?............

Wales was considered politically incorporated into England from 1535 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_in_Wales_Acts_1535_and_1542) to the 1990s, and the Union Jack was made in 1606 to add Scotland and amended in 1801 to add Ireland. So, St. George's cross represented both England and Wales. After devolution, there have been some calls to incorporate Wales separately into the Union Jack, but realistically, the Union Jack is not likely to change unless something drastic happens to the UK.

Yetos
24-06-16, 23:49
I have seen all graphicks about the analysis of Brexit/Bremain votes,

Ethnic minorities and Muslims were Remainers, while whites and Christians were Outers.
Lord Ashcroft (http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/lord-ashcroft) said: “A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to Remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to Leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.
“Among private renters and people with mortgages, a small majority (55% and 54%) voted to Remain; those who owned their homes outright voted to Leave by 55% to 45%.
“Around two thirds of council and housing association tenants voted to Leave. A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to Remain, as 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education.
“Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave. White voters voted to Leave the EU by 53% to 47%.
“Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to Remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters.
“Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to Leave; seven in 10 Muslims voted to Remain.”

Maleth
25-06-16, 11:55
Wales was considered politically incorporated into England from 1535 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_in_Wales_Acts_1535_and_1542) to the 1990s, and the Union Jack was made in 1606 to add Scotland and amended in 1801 to add Ireland. So, St. George's cross represented both England and Wales. After devolution, there have been some calls to incorporate Wales separately into the Union Jack, but realistically, the Union Jack is not likely to change unless something drastic happens to the UK.

Thanks for explanation Sparkey.....Interesting. I was not aware of that. I think that the Scottish separation from England and the unification of Ireland might be brought back to the discussion table. In my opinion (and experience), Just like how always the UK was skeptical about the EU and in a way even surprised how it remained part of the union for so long, I feel its only a matter of time before the Scotts will have their own fully autonomous Parliament, and Ireland will become one country again. From experience I know how very proud both scotts and Irish are. The average man on the street does not shy away from expressing their opinion towards the English, and how fiery they get if called English :). Its only a shell of 'relative' calm with a kind of semi turbulent interior.

ElHorsto
25-06-16, 13:15
......................deleted

Yetos
25-06-16, 21:13
I was reading that if Brexit was done (finish) today at all matters,

by the 'wise guys' of exit seems like 300 000 Uk citizen would find a job cause many would be considered as immigrants and will need a work licence card which might not get outside Eu laws,
and about 500 000 would be forced to leave the UK.
only at football matters it would more easier to pay the locals than foreigns, cause the extra tax to foreign players would took place,
meaning that at least 300 non UK football players might never entry UK,

on the other hand the 'wise guys' of remain say that UK will lost 550 000 jobs until 2020, mainly at multiethnic London, but by far less at countryside,
they also say that Britain can not start its own industrial policy (old BS) and must still continue to produce according EU stantards, (CE)
something that ties UK to todays production,
part of the wealth of UK is due to ability to change stantards at 18 and 19 century, like the case of Australian railway, which is made by tottaly 3 different parts, and a common train can not travel all railway,

anyway I do not consider Uk so stupid, to be drawn at teaspoon full of water,
and I do not believe all these Cassandras that predict the end of the world, frightening the british voters
THE WORLD WILL END WHEN SUN TURNS OFF,
BUT THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT HAS ENDED MANY TIMES, to start a new one

Now i still wonder how EU will force the UK to accept her stantards, in medicines for example,
or how UK will react if EU close the doors to british merchants,
when the maximum of the world naval transportation has its base to England
and the biggest insurance stantrds for cargo insurance were created by British,
on the other hand surely UK might lose a good market for exportations,
but will gain in securing stantard values for not importing cheap labour masses, meaning a better count control of NHS and insurance retirement services,

anyway I do not believe that EU is in danger,
simply unprepaired. and surely must change its standards, than the cheap policy to her citizen that is today,
and the extra hand to big corporations and bankers

Maleth
26-06-16, 09:10
I was reading that if Brexit was done (finish) today at all matters,anyway I do not consider Uk so stupid, to be drawn at teaspoon full of water,
and I do not believe all these Cassandras that predict the end of the world, frightening the british voters
THE WORLD WILL END WHEN SUN TURNS OFF,
BUT THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT HAS ENDED MANY TIMES, to start a new one

I will agree to this. However I believe that there is going to be a bumpy ride in the short medium term. During the bumpy ride there are going to new arguments and new sentiments towards the EU and I truly believe that there is not going to be some quick gratification to celebrate Brexit, maybe the opposite, but who knows. Most people who voted to leave did not really sit down and do the Maths but just absorbed the lovely soothing buzz words that suited the fears (irrational or not) of the present situation. The reality is there is no turning back. Britain has to Leave and I agree the sooner the better both for Britain and for the EU.

Ireland seems to be set to benefit from all this as it might absorb some of the investments since its close by. My country unfortunately will have a blow in tourism as the Brits are the nr 1 contributers and now holidays will be much more expensive unless the British pound stabilizes. There are also (like in Spain) many expats which might have a knock on effect.

It now really all depend on how kind the EU will be to Britain in this transition. However all in all Britain has not really been kind to the EU even thou it has seen its wealth grow significantly since the time it joined the block so some reason why should the EU be kind? I feel sorry however for the amazing over 70% of the younger British people who seem to have a different approach towards the EU project and I really feel that they should not be punished as they are the leaders of tomorrow and the EU should find ways how the interaction would continue without being too isolated.

The irony is that we might see Boris (who is quarter Turkish by the way with swiss Jewish German and I dont what else ancestory) as prime minister and preaching how Great Britian is and how to contain immigration (lol). I got nausea hearing a women (don't know where she is from) speaking in broken English saying she voted leave because her son (16) is born in Britian and he is finding very difficult to find a job because the IMMIGRANTS are taking all the jobs.

Maleth
26-06-16, 17:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHNfvJc99YY

Britons will not be slaves. (the patriotic song says) And Brussels seems to have been the master. :) Its much about nostalgia and pride and less about economics. A future British (English) prime minister has to work hard to satisfy the expectations. Lots of work ahead. The new prime minister will either be considered a hero, or viewed as a traitor, not much space for middle of the road.

Yetos
27-06-16, 10:05
well England was always 'her way'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN5zw04WxCc

Serena
28-06-16, 08:51
What do you think is going to be with property markets in the UK and the EU? I believe in the slight fall of prices in England and Spain. Spain will suffer a wane of demand for real estate from British buyers who were extremely active in this market. And in London the weak pound will play its part to attract new foreign investors (according to brokers' forecasts https://tranio.com/united-kingdom/news/real-estate-markets-could-wobble-as-uk-votes-to-leave-the-eu_5152/) The real estate market in Britain may even benefit from heightened foreign interest

Maleth
26-07-16, 16:23
I seem to have missed this bit. 10 years for Brexit? Might as well not leave at all

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/30/eu-referendum-brexit-could-take-up-to-10-years-to-happen-warns-f/

Tomenable
08-08-16, 18:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CvHjEkhxJQ

Maleth
08-08-16, 19:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CvHjEkhxJQ

Tomenable, wake up. Its not all about Abdul believe me. Besides the Brits and allies were fighting Nazism and Fascism. How unrealistic and cynical. You know the saying of living in glass houses and throwing stones?....apart that, there might be much more Kumars then Abduls.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36656348

Angela
08-08-16, 19:47
Tomenable, wake up. Its not all about Abdul believe me. Besides the Brits and allies were fighting Nazism and Fascism. How unrealistic and cynical. You know the saying of living in glass houses and throwing stones?....apart that, there might be much more Kumars then Abduls.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36656348

I never looked at this video, but now that I have, I don't even understand what it was getting at; it seems totally illogical and disjointed to me, other than the usual oversimplified rant that Brits voted for Brexit solely out of xenophobic fear of Muslims, which fear is justified because they all want to strap suicide belts around their waists. Oh, that's oversimplified too; aren't those kinds of Brits also upset about the Polish immigration?

Is it my imagination, or do a lot of these kinds of internet rants have a sort of "sexual" component to them? You know, they're going to take our women. Some people never get very far from their atavistic impulses.

Anyway, maybe I need to take another coffee; I feel a bit slow this morning.

Maleth
08-08-16, 20:04
I never looked at this video, but now that I have, I don't even understand what it was getting at; it seems totally illogical and disjointed to me, other than the usual oversimplified rant that Brits voted for Brexit solely out of xenophobic fear of Muslims, which fear is justified because they all want to strap suicide belts around their waists. Oh, that's oversimplified too; aren't those kinds of Brits also upset about the Polish immigration?

Is it my imagination, or do a lot of these kinds of internet rants have a sort of "sexual" component to them? You know, they're going to take our women. Some people never get very far from their atavistic impulses.

Anyway, maybe I need to take another coffee; I feel a bit slow this morning.

Well said. Besides there is also a message about the young and old divide, portraying the pro EU youngsters as some kind of teenage sluts are lured by 'Muslim sex' (how sick) when in fact we know that the most educated and well informed and well travelled British youths were more likely to vote in favor of the EU. Buon Giorno by the way . I will be off to sleep in a few hours :smile:

Tomenable
08-08-16, 20:24
Look I posted that video mainly because it is funny. Not that I agree with 100% of what it says.


Is it my imagination, or do a lot of these kinds of internet rants have a sort of "sexual" component to them? You know, they're going to take our women.

Hmm, yes indeed - probably you are right. This video is a "more educated rant" about this issue:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxpVwBzFAkw

Tomenable
08-08-16, 20:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzTuUSlnxEI

Tomenable
08-08-16, 20:32
^^^ All of those are of course just rants by supporters of the Evil Western Patriarchy: :wink:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86dlgoeyYTI

Tomenable
08-08-16, 20:39
Oh, that's oversimplified too; aren't those kinds of Brits also upset about the Polish immigration?

I have been discussing on ScyscraperCity Forum with some Poles who live in the UK.

Most of these Poles are very Pro-Muslim, Pro-Multiculturalism, with very leftist views, etc. They feel as part of this cultural "enrichment" process too. So I am not surprised that Brits also get upset about them. Even my own cousin who emigrated to Germany several years ago and lives in Hannover is now very much in favour of taking in refugees and of open borders for Germany. Her facebook friends are mostly people with Non-European ancestry who live in Germany. In Hannover there are probably more Turks and other Muslims than Germans, as she says. So I wouldn't be surprised if Germans who vote for parties such as AfD also don't like Polish immigration.

Most of Poles who live in the UK have similar views to LeBrok. They would welcome unlimited numbers of Muslims.

Is it really surprising that various groups of immigrants support each other ???

Yes, Polish immigrants are also part of this problem, because they buddy up with Muslim immigrants.

You see, I am far from white-washing my own ethnic group or defending it.

If the majority of Brits think that Poles are causing problems in the UK, then they are probably right.

Angela
08-08-16, 21:16
I have been discussing on ScyscraperCity Forum with some Poles who live in the UK. Most of these Poles are very Pro-Muslim, Pro-Multiculturalism, with very leftist views, etc. They feel as part of this cultural "enrichment" process. So I am not surprised that Brits also get upset about them. Even my own cousin who emigrated to Germany several years ago and now lives in Hannover is now very much in favour of taking in refugees and of open borders for Germany. Her facebook friends are mostly people with Non-European background who live in Germany. So I wouldn't be surprised if Germans who vote for parties such as AfD also don't like Polish immigration.

Most of Poles who live in the UK have similar views to LeBrok. They would welcome unlimited numbers of Muslims in Britain.

Is it surprising that immigrants support each other ???



Tomenable, it's irrelevant what opinions the Poles who immigrated to the U.K. actually have. The issue is what do British people of the Brexit variety think of Polish immigration? That may have nothing to do with how Poles feel about Muslim immigration or indeed how assimilated they actually are...it may have to do strictly with economics, with the fact that they believe they are taking jobs away from U.K.people.

It might even be true that the non-Brexit Brits don't mind immigration, or are willing to put up with it for the benefits they perceive as accruing to EU membership, but are not very keen on immigration from Poland because they think it's a hotbed of racist, white supremacist anti-Muslim ideology. You might be right, and those are not the opinions of the Poles actually in the U.K., but as I said, there's often a big gap between stereotype and reality.

See:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/28/britains-850000-polish-citizens-face-backlash-after-brexit-vote/

David Cameron said numerous times that EU nationals are a drain on the U.K. Social Welfare system.

These are the same kinds of things that are said here about Mexican immigrants.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1342831/streets-full-of-polish-shops-kids-not-speaking-english-but-union-jacks-now-flying-high-again/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/17/immigration-british-attitudes-harden-benefits

Basically, they don't care how "white" Poles are; it's not relevant.

Don't take it to heart. During WW2 there was a famous saying in the U.K. about the American military personnel: over-paid, over-sexed, and over here.

Among some UK people the concern has more to do with their perception of the values of these Polish migrants. Notice I said perceived, not actual. I would think this is probably more prevalent among liberal, more upper class stay-in-Brexit types, but bizarrely it also seems to have led some people to vote for Brexit.

"It is very strange to me that there has been little to any commentary on Polish racism towards Black and Asian British people. This is the only reason that I shall be voting out. I am fed up of many Polish people that i have encountered leveling racism my way – the use of the N word seems to be perfectly fine to them. I do not see why I should have to put up with being called a monkey just because Polish people come from a homogeneously white country and rarely encounter people of other races. Polish people have imported their own discriminatory practices into the UK and made life very difficult for many British people of colour."

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/03/09/incomplete-europeans-polish-migrants-experience-of-prejudice-and-discrimination-in-the-uk-is-complicated-by-their-whiteness/

Tomenable,

This last video is blocked, but I have no idea how patriarchy enters into this discussion.

Whoever is making those youtube spots really has to cut down on the drugs: what looks good and logical when someone is high doesn't present like that to someone who is sober.

As for the others, feminism is totally off topic for this thread. I don't want to believe that you're the type who when a woman bests you at something responds with a rant about feminism.

There's nothing at all wrong with the kitchen and the bedroom, Tomenable, so long as those aren't the only two rooms we're allowed to enter.

LeBrok
09-08-16, 04:45
Most of Poles who live in the UK have similar views to LeBrok. They would welcome unlimited numbers of Muslims.

There is no way to have any reasonable discussion with you, if you don't care for the facts. Cite me saying that I support unlimited Muslim immigration to Europe or unlimited immigration in general.
My advice to you is, go abroad, see the world, meet all the people and stop being so freakishly afraid of anything and anyone that is different from what you see in your little place. If not, you are going to die frightened old man. Frightened of this Armageddon and Sodoma, which you think is coming, and coming, and coming, ever closer, and coming,...

Boreas
09-08-16, 18:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CvHjEkhxJQ

What they said

http://leftfootforward.org/images/2016/05/rsz_cikhd7axaaiklxc.jpg

What they will do


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html

Maleth
03-11-16, 15:08
It seems that according to UK law its Parliament that has to decide on triggering article 50 to start negotiations. If this is the case why was there a referendum in the first place?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37857785

Miss Marple's nephew
26-10-17, 16:20
It seems that according to UK law its Parliament that has to ..................... decide . why was there a referendum in the first place?

One might ask. Norway slipped out without a ripple.

howyesno
23-12-17, 23:33
UK was never really deeply and honestly into EU project... i understand their reasons to leave EU..

deanpegal
20-02-18, 18:20
It is bad decision if we see it as a short run but very beneficial if we see it in long run for Britain.