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Kisuan
14-06-16, 07:37
I'm afraid this actor might be well known, especially to certain members here. :/ But if you don't know him, feel free to take a jab! I think he's common on anthropological forums too, but it would be fun seeing opinions here (+ I personally think Eupedians are more open-minded). :) Feel free to classify him too.
7793

7794

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Angela
14-06-16, 14:53
You're safe...I don't know him! :)

I'd guess British Isles descent...if not, maybe Norway or somewhere around there?

Kisuan
14-06-16, 17:01
You're safe...I don't know him! :)

I'd guess British Isles descent...if not, maybe Norway or somewhere around there?

I was expecting answers like this, but he actually isn't from either place :) or anywhere around there.

Angela
14-06-16, 17:21
Then perhaps Italy or the Balkans. We do have people who look like him. There's nothing to my eyes Baltic about him, or at all Iberian for that matter.

Kisuan
14-06-16, 17:29
Oo, he isn't from either place, but Balkans is closest to where he's actually from!

Angela
14-06-16, 17:46
Oo, he isn't from either place, but Balkans is closest to where he's actually from!

A very atypical looking Turk then? There were those Galatians...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia

I suppose he could be a throw back of some sort.

Sorry, maybe I'm not giving other people a chance.

Kisuan
14-06-16, 17:51
A very atypical looking Turk then? There were those Galatians...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia

I suppose he could be a throw back of some sort.

Sorry, maybe I'm not giving other people a chance.
Bravo, Angela, he is indeed Turkish. Quite a popular actor in Turkey too I believe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%B1van%C3%A7_Tatl%C4%B1tu%C4%9F
According to wiki, both of his parents don't come from the region historically inhabited by the Galatians, but his mother is very close to the border of Balkan countries in Thrace.
Totally fine if it's just a few people playing, these are mostly just for fun and to see the diversity in humankind I suppose.

He probably is atypical, but I think there indeed is a sizable minority of people in Turkey and other neighboring countries who could belong to a type similar to his.

Angela
14-06-16, 18:15
Well, hardly bravo material as it was my third choice!

Just personal trivia...my hairdresser is originally from Istanbul...great guy. He looks totally Balkan to me, that Dinaric skull and everything, sort of sandy beige in pigmentation, and his wife could pass as Slovenian. Both of their families were settled for a long time in the Balkans, however, and came back to Turkey at the time of the great re-settlements in the modern era.

People don't always fit the stereotypes.

In term of Italians I was thinking of men like Raffaele Casuccio, although he's not an exact match now that I looked at his pictures.
http://www.spettacolo.net/artisti/foto/g-1510b.jpg

Kisuan
14-06-16, 18:48
Well, hardly bravo material as it was my third choice!

Just personal trivia...my hairdresser is originally from Istanbul...great guy. He looks totally Balkan to me, that Dinaric skull and everything, sort of sandy beige in pigmentation, and his wife could pass as Slovenian. Both of their families were settled for a long time in the Balkans, however, and came back to Turkey at the time of the great re-settlements in the modern era.

People don't always fit the stereotypes.

In term of Italians I was thinking of men like Raffaele Casuccio, although he's not an exact match now that I looked at his pictures.
http://www.spettacolo.net/artisti/foto/g-1510b.jpg
Interesting, I could see some resemblance in the face shape I think.

Kisuan
14-06-16, 19:53
I suppose this look isn't very rare throughout the Mediterranean and other parts of Southern Europe?

Angela
14-06-16, 22:24
If you're talking about pigmentation, from my experience, this map of Italy is pretty accurate.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/BiasuttiMappa.gif

All of my ancestry comes from the area from LaSpezia in Liguria north, encompassing the orange and yellow areas.

This is a medieval fair in one of our villages. The two boys on either end are of local ancestry, but the middle boy is not. The boy on the left as you look at the picture looks just like my cousin Anthony as a child although my cousin's hair was really carroty in shade. :)

http://www.wanderingitaly.com/blog/images/160.jpg

This is a famous partisan from my area:

7800

This is an Italian skier from a town in my father's area.

7801

A partisan from an area near my father's, and a famous post war Italian politician. She reminds me of my father's mother.

7802

This is a folk group from the quattro-province from an area northwest of my father's. They sing all the same songs. My brother, who takes after my father's family more than I do looks a lot like the lead singer, except he has reddish brown coloring like the singer with a beard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkBYn-AYULU

Much older...still singing Bella Ciao with passion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOyY77xd3l4

So, I wouldn't say it's rare at all in Italy as a whole.

Not everybody in those areas is fair, of course; I'm just saying it exists in a decent percentage. A lot of our songs are about a biondo or bionda. :) One can also find them occasionally in southern areas. My husband's maternal grandmother was from around Benevento in Campania, and she was blonde and blue eyed, as is his sister, and his paternal grandfather from Calabria had light brown hair and green eyes, and was 6'3. He got his "Mediterranean" coloring from his other two grandparents.

Ed. the map figures are based on military conscripts so they're really only for men. Women are fairer so the over all percentages are probably a bit higher.

Kisuan
14-06-16, 23:48
If you're talking about pigmentation, from my experience, this map of Italy is pretty accurate.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/BiasuttiMappa.gif

All of my ancestry comes from the area from LaSpezia in Liguria north, encompassing the orange and yellow areas.

This is a medieval fair in one of our villages. The two boys on either end are of local ancestry, but the middle boy is not. The boy on the left as you look at the picture looks just like my cousin Anthony as a child although my cousin's hair was really carroty in shade. :)

http://www.wanderingitaly.com/blog/images/160.jpg

This is a famous partisan from my area:

7800

This is an Italian skier from a town in my father's area.

7801

A partisan from an area near my father's, and a famous post war Italian politician. She reminds me of my father's mother.

7802

This is a folk group from the quattro-province from an area northwest of my father's. They sing all the same songs. My brother, who takes after my father's family more than I do looks a lot like the lead singer, except he has reddish brown coloring like the singer with a beard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkBYn-AYULU

So, I wouldn't say it's rare at all in Italy as a whole.

Not everybody in those areas is fair, of course; I'm just saying it exists in a decent percentage. A lot of our songs are about a biondo or bionda. :) One can also find them occasionally in southern areas. My husband's maternal grandmother was from around Benevento in Campania, and she was blonde and blue eyed, as is his sister, and his paternal grandfather from Calabria had light brown hair and green eyes, and was 6'3. He got his "Mediterranean" coloring from his other two grandparents.

Ed. the map figures are based on military conscripts so they're really only for men. Women are fairer so the over all percentages are probably a bit higher.

Great info Angela! The map fits well with my own amateur presumptions. I notice Corsica is included as well. Forgive me, I can't quite remember, but do most of Corsica's modern population trace their ancestry to the Italian peninsula? I know historically most of the population do tends towards Italy (including the one and only Napoleon). Do you reckon most of genetics behind these phenotypes result from settlement of people during the migration period (i.e. Goths, Lombards, and whatever else) or maybe the previous Celts or whatever else (or perhaps it's foolish trying to link anything to a specific group of people)? I get some Swiss (even though some of the population are obviously historic Italians), Austrian and German vibes from those photos.

Pax Augusta
15-06-16, 01:00
If you're talking about pigmentation, from my experience, this map of Italy is pretty accurate.

It includes males only but it shows a pattern.

Angela
15-06-16, 01:03
It includes males only but it shows a pattern.

Yes, I agree with that. I just think it would be higher across the board but probably the same pattern.

Angela
15-06-16, 01:04
Great info Angela! The map fits well with my own amateur presumptions. I notice Corsica is included as well. Forgive me, I can't quite remember, but do most of Corsica's modern population trace their ancestry to the Italian peninsula? I know historically most of the population do tends towards Italy (including the one and only Napoleon). Do you reckon most of genetics behind these phenotypes result from settlement of people during the migration period (i.e. Goths, Lombards, and whatever else) or maybe the previous Celts or whatever else (or perhaps it's foolish trying to link anything to a specific group of people)? I get some Swiss (even though some of the population are obviously historic Italians), Austrian and German vibes from those photos.

I think there's a bit of a NW Euro vibe in some as well. Take a look at the video. I'm no fan of the recent Hellenthal paper on recent admixture in Europe, but they model one of the "parental" populations as "Welsh like" for parts of North and north central Italy. There are documented migrations of "Gallic" peoples into my own area, so much so that they became known as the "Celt-Ligurians". Who, indeed, were the Ligurians? Were they people from an early Indo-European migration?

Years ago, Dienekes posited that the Italian genetic "signature" was formed on a Neolithic pan Italian base with subsequent population movements from central and north western Europe (Gaul) generally entering through the North, and movements from the south east entering through the south. It's more complicated than that, but as a general proposition I think he was right. So, Italics/Ligures, Gauls, later some Lombards, particularly in the north east and north central, generally from the north and perhaps Cretans, Aegeans of one sort or another, Classical Era Greeks, from the southeast? Then there would be some other minor additions? I don't know. We really need some ancient dna. I just wish the Reich Lab was doing the analysis instead of the group supposedly working on some ancient Italian genomes.

As to Corsica, there's been a lot of movement of people from mainland Italy into Corsica, primarily from Liguria and Toscana. I even think Corsican is classified as a type of Tuscan dialect. It's not all that easy for me to understand it, but that's more because of pronunciation. If I see it written I do better with it.

The base population probably had some relationship with Sardinian populations. At one point the islands were joined, and were separated from the mainland by a few miles of low water. There is a lot of documented historical migration as well, of course.

As to Napoleon, his maternal ancestors were from Liguria and his paternal ones from Toscana.

He has a very familiar face indeed:

http://emperornapoleon.com/napoleon/napoleonyoung-min2.jpg
https://datavizblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/portrait_napoleon_1769_1821_u_hi.jpg


His brother Louis:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/3a/2b/bd/3a2bbd616870484b50c9926e736a36d8.jpg

How funny; I just noticed the cleft chin appears in them. :)