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johen
21-06-16, 22:10
Culturally there are differences. World tree is Uralic. Also world egg. Sun, Sky God. Those are common. Although not sure if World Tree goes back to PIE or is regional feature.
But then there is layer which seems absent in proto-Uralic. Culture heroes (Loki, Prometeus,..), Bulls, Chariots, (Horse) Twins... I am not sure if proto-Uralic featured any of this.
Thank you for information
I think that original IndoEuropean and Proto Ural were represented by Hg RQ and N
I don’t want derail the thread. This topic probably has something to do with this thread

I think the RQ and N were all first civilization makers under Siberian shamanism
As you know, N created the Liao civilization(6,200BC), first one in the world. It located in the middle of inner Mongolia and North Korea. Even if ancient people in there was called “East Barbarian” in Chinese history, their civilization had a root of China and Korea. However, China changed their history and regarded the civilization as theirs. Nothing special. Important thing is most European believe that the civilization was made by ancient Chinese. The china will never reveal the auDNA in the first civilization. Moreover, I heard that there were 15,000 small pyramids in the area of Manchu near North Korea in the 2nd Picture.

https://s32.postimg.org/7lj7ec005/image.png

Original RQ also had a great civilization under shamanism in America. I don't think the only idiots stayed in Altai and the smarts went to America. The Pyramids in the west china (Xian), the oldest one in the world, might be created by the RQ. If not, they had already opened. Probably they will be open after finding that old shang and maya civilization had a connection. The Chinese scholars have had great efforts to find the connection. The China revealed all just Hgs in their old culture, not in Shang which their civilization started.

My point is the first civilization maker RQ and N under shamanism migrated to Europe and East Asia. Probably N and RG language would be similar.
Every one think that original IE was IE speaking w/ Hg R. Thus, 14,000BC R1b and now R in Middle East. Is that all? Problem is that scyhtian, Hun, and Mongol followed exactly the same way of proto-IE. Why? b/c of shamans. I think Original IE also lived under shaman philosophy: mother of nature, father of sun and a product of Human. Without understanding siberiIan shamanism, we cannot find the real identity of Proto IE. American Indians had the same philosophy.

Now looks like the 1st civilization Gene ANE RQ moved in India and Middle East, but I am not sure.

Yetos
21-06-16, 22:42
something interesting? or old

the white pyramids Y-DNA

http://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-13-216
Published: 30 September 2013

Results

47 of the 70 individuals provided reproducible results. They were assigned into five different Y sub-haplogroups using diagnostic single nucleotide polymorphisms, namely N1 (xN1a, N1c), N1c, C/C3e, O3a (O3a3) and O3a3c. We also used 17 Y short tandem repeat loci in the non-recombining portion of the Y chromosome. There appears to be significant genetic differences between populations of the West Liao River valley and adjacent cultural complexes in the prehistoric period, and these prehistoric populations were shown to carry similar haplotypes as present-day Northeast Asians, but at markedly different frequencies.

Yetos
21-06-16, 22:47
Thank you for information
I think that original IndoEuropean and Proto Ural were represented by Hg RQ and N
I don’t want derail the thread. This topic probably has something to do with this thread

I think the RQ and N were all first civilization makers under Siberian shamanism
As you know, N created the Liao civilization(6,200BC), first one in the world. It located in the middle of inner Mongolia and North Korea. Even if ancient people in there was called “East Barbarian” in Chinese history, their civilization had a root of China and Korea. However, China changed their history and regarded the civilization as theirs. Nothing special. Important thing is most European believe that the civilization was made by ancient Chinese. The china will never reveal the auDNA in the first civilization. Moreover, I heard that there were 15,000 small pyramids in the area of Manchu near North Korea in the 2nd Picture.

https://s32.postimg.org/7lj7ec005/image.png

Original RQ also had a great civilization under shamanism in America. I think the only idiots stayed in Altai and the smarts went to America. The Pyramids in the west china (Xian), the oldest one in the world, might be created by the RQ. If not, they had already opened. Probably they will be open after finding that old shang and maya civilization had a connection. The Chinese scholars have had great efforts to find the connection. The China revealed all just Hgs in their old culture, not in Shang which their civilization started.

My point is the first civilization maker RQ and N under shamanism migrated to Europe and East Asia. Probably N and RG language would be similar.
Every one think that original IE was IE speaking w/ Hg R. Thus, 14,000BC R1b and now R in Middle East. Is that all? Problem is that scyhtian, Hun, and Mongol followed exactly the way of proto-IE. Why? b/c of shamans. I think Original IE also lived under shaman philosophy: mother of nature, father of sun and a product of Human. Without understanding siberiIan shamanism, we cannot find the real identity of Proto IE. American Indians had the same philosophy.

Now looks like the 1st civilization Gene ANE RQ moved in India and Middle East, but I am not sure.

the DNA found at white pyramids culture is N O C

now the flat top also is found at Messopotamia as Ziggurat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat


​that is a pyramid at America

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/01/pyramid-sun-teotihuacan-P.jpeg

that is a pyramid at Messopotamia

http://pixdaus.com/files/items/pics/5/35/117535_e7e7788002e2642ecd7bf4e5bec38439_large.jpg


I wonder did we find the same YDNA N C Q here?


http://beautifulplacestovisit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Tikal-Guatemala1-Temple-1.jpg

johen
21-06-16, 23:20
something interesting? or old

the white pyramids Y-DNA

http://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-13-216
Published: 30 September 2013

Results

47 of the 70 individuals provided reproducible results. They were assigned into five different Y sub-haplogroups using diagnostic single nucleotide polymorphisms, namely N1 (xN1a, N1c), N1c, C/C3e, O3a (O3a3) and O3a3c. We also used 17 Y short tandem repeat loci in the non-recombining portion of the Y chromosome. There appears to be significant genetic differences between populations of the West Liao River valley and adjacent cultural complexes in the prehistoric period, and these prehistoric populations were shown to carry similar haplotypes as present-day Northeast Asians, but at markedly different frequencies.
i mean this one of dominant N:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-C5fOTNyx_WI/Uq2vf7rj2yI/AAAAAAAACSs/zsm8FfhoIws/s1600/EAsiaNeolithic.PNG

But you mean this one, right?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T34tkRC-e2w/Uq2vmJgdKDI/AAAAAAAACS0/eA5voo3WSqc/s1600/EAsiaMetal.PNG

johen
21-06-16, 23:22
the DNA found at white pyramids culture is N Q C

now the flat top also is found at Messopotamia as Ziggurat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat


​that is a pyramid at America

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/01/pyramid-sun-teotihuacan-P.jpeg

that is a pyramid at Messopotamia

http://pixdaus.com/files/items/pics/5/35/117535_e7e7788002e2642ecd7bf4e5bec38439_large.jpg


I wonder did we find the same YDNA N C Q here?


http://beautifulplacestovisit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Tikal-Guatemala1-Temple-1.jpg
where is C from? I never mentioned that. How do you think of Xian pyramid, the oldest one in the world? If it is related with N, Q, O, it had already opened.

Yetos
21-06-16, 23:41
where is C from? I never mentioned that. How do you think of Xian pyramid, the oldest one in the world? If it is related with N, Q, O, it had already opened.

post #141 Ydna N O C

Sorry no Q, my mistake, I put Q instead of O

N1 (xN1a, N1c), N1c, C/C3e, O3a (O3a3) and O3a3c

the white pyramids are connected with Hongshan culture,

with N C O no Q

Sile
21-06-16, 23:57
i mean this one of dominant N:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-C5fOTNyx_WI/Uq2vf7rj2yI/AAAAAAAACSs/zsm8FfhoIws/s1600/EAsiaNeolithic.PNG

But you mean this one, right?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T34tkRC-e2w/Uq2vmJgdKDI/AAAAAAAACS0/eA5voo3WSqc/s1600/EAsiaMetal.PNG

the bottom map in reference to Xiaohe are 12 ydna of which 11 are R1a1a and one T1a1 ((K-M9(xN, O, P))
( as noted by chinese docos)

I initially thought it was L

johen
21-06-16, 23:58
post #141 Ydna N O C

Sorry no Q, my mistake, I put Q instead of O

N1 (xN1a, N1c), N1c, C/C3e, O3a (O3a3) and O3a3c

sorry to the other members.
Why do you think they were found in white pyramids. As far as I know, they were from dolmens in that area.
To me, R,Q,N was history maker, but C,O no way.

Yetos
22-06-16, 00:06
ok

I will link it again,
it is not my work, so argue with them,

the white pyramids are connected with HONGSHAN CULTURE

THE neolithic cultigens of Hongshan culture Y-DNA found are these.

link

http://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-13-216

I repeat not my work, neither spiritual rights I have,
simply Hongshan culture who created the white pyramids is found to have these Y-dna haplos

johen
22-06-16, 00:22
ok

I will link it again,
it is not my work, so argue with them,

the white pyramids are connected with HONGSHAN CULTURE

THE neolithic cultigens of Hongshan culture Y-DNA found are these.

link

http://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-13-216

I repeat not my work, neither spiritual rights I have,
simply Hongshan culture who created the white pyramids is found to have these Y-dna haplos
Thank you for reply.

15,000 of small White pyramids in the 2nd picture were probably related with Hongshan culture, b/c it was the root of East Asia culture. However, the white pyramids locate in red mark, just above the North Korea, different zone from Liao civilization
https://s32.postimg.org/4hymi7jz9/image.png

Yetos
22-06-16, 00:44
well it says west Liao

https://static-content.springer.com/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2148-13-216/MediaObjects/12862_2013_Article_2448_Fig1_HTML.jpg


at a simply map

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Liaorivermap.png

inner Mongolia is just beside as you see,

http://imgs.ntd.tv/content/20110531-CN-02_Chinese-Riot-Police-Arrest-Dozens-in-Inner-Mongolia-Protest.jpg


anyway, i hope I did not misunderstood with the Taklamakan pyramid, the Great White, etc

taklamakan pyramids are younger,
they are 1-2 milleniums after the first Hongshan pyramids,
and I do not expect to find Y hg as O3 there.
besides they have stairs like Ziggurat

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYD2O8YgBfCv80ei_V_10uM2nIJmaM9 jdxFWikBprfUe7kDdpg




Anyway the neolithic hongshan culture is the bellow

http://national-paranormal-society.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/113-300x208.jpg

here, are the oldest pyramids, most with no stairs, East and a piece of Inner Mongolia,

holderlin
22-06-16, 01:26
wtf is this white pyramid crap

Yetos
22-06-16, 01:35
wtf is this white pyramid crap

another ancient civilization where R Q are abcent, not exist
estimate around 8ky from now,
6.5 ky to 4,5 ky a neolithic civilization that has not R Q etc hg, but has N

you see we have 4 starts of cultivate plants,
1 is the known, Middle/near East
2 is in central America, Balsas river valley
3 is this one,
4 somewhere indochina or Dutch india

johen
29-06-16, 06:03
Thank you for information
I think that original IndoEuropean and Proto Ural were represented by Hg RQ and N
I don’t want derail the thread. This topic probably has something to do with this thread

I think the RQ and N were all first civilization makers under Siberian shamanism
As you know, N created the Liao civilization(6,200BC), first one in the world. It located in the middle of inner Mongolia and North Korea. Even if ancient people in there was called “East Barbarian” in Chinese history, their civilization had a root of China and Korea. However, China changed their history and regarded the civilization as theirs. Nothing special. Important thing is most European believe that the civilization was made by ancient Chinese. The china will never reveal the auDNA in the first civilization. Moreover, I heard that there were 15,000 small pyramids in the area of Manchu near North Korea in the 2nd Picture.

https://s32.postimg.org/7lj7ec005/image.png

Original RQ also had a great civilization under shamanism in America. I don't think the only idiots stayed in Altai and the smarts went to America. The Pyramids in the west china (Xian), the oldest one in the world, might be created by the RQ. If not, they had already opened. Probably they will be open after finding that old shang and maya civilization had a connection. The Chinese scholars have had great efforts to find the connection. The China revealed all just Hgs in their old culture, not in Shang which their civilization started.

My point is the first civilization maker RQ and N under shamanism migrated to Europe and East Asia. Probably N and RG language would be similar.
Every one think that original IE was IE speaking w/ Hg R. Thus, 14,000BC R1b and now R in Middle East. Is that all? Problem is that scyhtian, Hun, and Mongol followed exactly the same way of proto-IE. Why? b/c of shamans. I think Original IE also lived under shaman philosophy: mother of nature, father of sun and a product of Human. Without understanding siberiIan shamanism, we cannot find the real identity of Proto IE. American Indians had the same philosophy.

Now looks like the 1st civilization Gene ANE RQ moved in India and Middle East, but I am not sure.


During the Han Dynasty (260 BC-220 AD), the Huaxia ethnic group developed into a tribe known as the Han Chinese [3 (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0125676#pone.0125676.ref003)]. Because of their advanced agriculture and technology, this group migrated northward into regions inhabited by many ancient northern ethnic groups that were most likely Altaic in origin [4 (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0125676#pone.0125676.ref004)].
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0125676

Liao civilization locates outside of Great Wall
https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-Central-Asia/images-videos
https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/42/7242-004-F6092A0D.jpg

johen
16-07-16, 22:42
The China revealed all just Hgs in their old culture, not in Shang which their civilization started.


Sintashta burial:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/chariots.htm

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/chariot4.jpg


Shang Dynasty Burial:

http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat2/sub2/item42.html
http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20080215-chariot%20osu.jpg

johen
08-09-16, 05:18
I don't think the only idiots stayed in Altai and the smarts went to America. The Pyramids in the west china (Xian), the oldest one in the world, might be created by the R,Q. If not, they had already opened.

World’s Oldest Pyramid Was Found – And It’s In Kazakhstan
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/15/19/37421D3100000578-3741937-The_bronze_era_pyramid_found_in_Kazakhstan_left_an d_the_famous_E-a-21_1471285585688.jpg

"Novozhenov said that the newly discovered structure could even be 1,000 years older than the ancient Begazy-Dandybai pyramids located nearby, and was built sometime during the Bronze Age."
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/26987/20160817/world-oldest-pyramid-kazakhstan.htm

johen
21-09-16, 06:33
they had a great civilization under shamanism in America. I don't think the only idiots stayed in Altai and the smarts went to America. The Pyramids in the west china (Xian), the oldest one in the world, might be created by the RQ.

Chinese civilization and American civilizations are actually the descendants of the same ancestors, from different locations and times. KC Chang called this entire cultural background "the Mayan-Chinese Culture Continuum.” The geographical scope of this continuum covers the entire Old World and the New World. Their time dates back much further than the origin of Chinese civilization, or the Mayan civilization, and at least as early as the Upper Paleolithic Period.



Based on this point of view, the Paleolithic ancestors, their culture, in particular the level of development of the arts, ideas and ideology, far exceed how we view them from limited archaeological data. As such, we often underestimate the level of their culture.



20,000-30,000 years ago when most of the Indigenous groups passed through the Bering Strait from Asia to the Americas, they brought along a culture with unexpected richness. This extended to the New World and became known as "the Mayan-Chinese culture continuum. Its core element comprised of "sorcery and shaman culture". When viewing the world, they divided it into different levels, and the shaman interchanged between the different levels. They engaged in this communication, some aides and tools: various law , which may include a gourd, alcohol, drugs, a variety of animals and a heaven-earth pole.



20,000 to 30,000 years ago, people journeyed across the Bering Strait to the New World. During this process, they were said to have brought over a variety of cultural background. From this rich basis of culture, similar societies were formed at different places and different times. This included the Bronze Age civilization that occurred two to three thousand years ago in China, the Mayan civilization in Mexico, as well as other similar civilizations.



Note: KC Chang, Qingtong Huichen
Harvard University professor of Archeology and Anthropology, Dr. KC Chang discussed about the "Mayan-Chinese Culture Continuum”
http://www.ancient-encounters.com/AESE/Discovery.html

Rethel
22-09-16, 23:24
Sintashta burial:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/chariots.htm

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/chariot4.jpg


Shang Dynasty Burial:

http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat2/sub2/item42.html
http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20080215-chariot%20osu.jpg


Simply Shangs and Zhous could be Indoeuropeans, or under IE influence.
Exept of horse burial they change whole chinese social structure from
matrilineal to patrilineal, changed main god for IE like and what is most
important here, Old Chinese language was (and probably still is) full of
IE borrowings. From somewhere it had to be taken, they did develope
it not on their own, to many stuff. So, since XVII century BC China had
to be under Indoeuropean infuence if not under IE direct rule.

But Finchurian neolithic has nothing to do with that.

johen
23-09-16, 04:33
Simply Shangs and Zhous could be Indoeuropeans, or under IE influence.
Exept of horse burial they change whole chinese social structure from
matrilineal to patrilineal, changed main god for IE like and what is most
important here, Old Chinese language was (and probably still is) full of
IE borrowings. From somewhere it had to be taken, they did develope
it not on their own, to many stuff. So, since XVII century BC China had
to be under Indoeuropean infuence if not under IE direct rule.

But Finchurian neolithic has nothing to do with that.

what old chinese language do you mean?
As far as I know, the manchu (not finchu) people of last Qing dynasty adapted Modern chinese Mandarin as an official language. Before Qing the mandarin, as one of chinese dialects, was used in the border area between Pecking and Manchu, being similar to manchu language.
I think you meant the language before Mandarin.
By the way, do you know which language was used before Qing dynasty?
One more, do you know when the chinese language, the sino-tibetan, appeared?
As far as I know, the sino-tibetan originated in tibetan burmese.

Rethel
23-09-16, 17:40
what old chinese language do you mean?

http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp007_old_chinese.pdf


As far as I know, the manchu (not finchu) people

I meant neolitic Liao river civilization and similar cradles of N hg.

johen
23-09-16, 19:57
http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp007_old_chinese.pdf


Middle Chinese language (3c-13c) had a linguistic similarity with Tai-Kadal people and Austroasatic people and Hmong-mien.
And the above research metioned also, which means the Chinese tonal language appeared since 3century.


Unknown to Old Chinese, the existence of tonal accents was for the first time mentioned in the 5th century by Shen Yiieh (441-513).
In Middle Chinese (Mch.) there were four tone categories: A Ping-sheng , a level tone (which developed into Mandarin tone 1 or 2) . B Shang-sheng k , a rising tone (Mandarin tone 3) . C Ch'ii-sheng , a vanishing, i.e. falling tone (Mandarin tone 4) . D Ju-sheng A , an entering tone with a staccato effect, the word being abruptly stopped by a final consonant -p, -t, -k. (In Early Mandarin the words of this tone lost their final consonant and were distributed among the tones 2, 3 and 4, respectively according to the phonation of initials)


And it was proved by all Han chinese genetic admixture in the map. However, there is another gene still left in the map: Altaic
https://s13.postimg.org/4s9csqtgn/Capture.png

How to explain the Altaic factor in Chinese people?

Sergei discovered that OCH(old Chinese) have an interesting stratum of Altaic borrowings which share three common features: "1. The Old Chinese words are usually attested at least starting with Early Zhou (only a few of them are attested later than 6th century B.C.). 2. For none of these words have any Sino-Tibetan parallels been proposed. 3. On the Altaic side, the words are well represented, particularly, in the east (Korean, Japanese and Tungus-Manchu)"[9]. Discussing the impact of this discovery, Sergei mentioned to me that the Neolithic Yangshao culture of the Huang He valley can be associated with those Altaic speakers. The contacts (not peaceful) began when the speakers of OCH reached the Huang He valley and met the local Altaic population.
He said,
1. OCH was not similar to sino-tibetan, which modern chinese language belongs to. The genetic admixture of map also shows non sino-tibetan(violet color) in Han chines.
2. The yangshao was speaking Altaic, which is also proved to be Hg N (how did he know that!!!!)

==> Thus, shang and Zhou people might be nomad Q speaking Altaic being similar to R language. B/C Q was living in Altai area, being genetically close to R.

johen
17-02-17, 06:45
Simply Shangs and Zhous could be Indoeuropeans, or under IE influence.
Exept of horse burial they change whole chinese social structure from
matrilineal to patrilineal, changed main god for IE like and what is most
important here, Old Chinese language was (and probably still is) full of
IE borrowings. From somewhere it had to be taken, they did develope
it not on their own, to many stuff. So, since XVII century BC China had
to be under Indoeuropean infuence if not under IE direct rule.

But Finchurian neolithic has nothing to do with that.

The Rise of Agricultural Civilization in China:The Disparity between Archeological Discovery andthe Documentary Record and Its ExplanationbyZhou JixuCenter for East Asian Studies, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PennsylvaniaChinese Department, Sichuan Normal University, Chengdu, Sichuan


Unlike the Yangshao and Hemudu people, who came from southern China, the Huang Di nation came from west of China, from the western part of the Eurasian continent. They conquered the native people of the Yellow River and the Yangtze River, who possessed a developed agricultural culture. By combining their own imported cultural factors with those of the native culture, the Huang Di people gradually developed a splendid new civilization in the Xia, Shang, and Zhou dynasties. They superseded the original native people to take the leading role on the stage of Chinese history. That the Huang Di nation was a branch of the archaic Indo-European people is one of the most remarkable facts thus far known to human history. But a large number of Indo-European words in Old Chinese language clearly attest to this fact. The relics left by the Huang Di people are related to the Longshan Culture in the archaeological chronicle, and the civilization of the Xia, Shang, Zhou, and Qin秦 dynasties were its successors.27 Evidence for this claim comes from two sources: the first uses the evidence of ancient documents to show that the Zhou people, and thus the Yellow Emperor’s nation, were originally a nomadic people, and the second is to reveal that there were a large number of Indo-European words in the Zhou language, using the evidence of historical linguistics. The third is the similarity in religion between the Huang Di people and Proto-Indo-European. As to the last point, please refer to the author’s paper “Old Chinese ‘帝*tees’ and Proto-Indo-European ‘*deus’: Similarity in Religious Ideas and a Common Source in Linguistics” (Zhou 2005).