bicicleur 2
Regular Member
- Messages
- 6,367
- Reaction score
- 1,401
- Points
- 113
Mal'ta 1 was R* and related to AG2 and AG3
According to Genetiker AG2 was probably not R but Q1a1
IMO only 1 tribe survived LGM in south Siberia west of Lake Bajkal. It was not a R tribe, it was Q1a1.
The R tribes which survived had fled southwest to somewhere north of the Hindu Kush.
10 ka the Iran neolithic was in Ganj Dareh in the Zagros mountains and according to Genetiker it was an R2 tribe - be it admixed with CHG and Hotu Mesolithic J tribes
The precursor of the Iran neolithic are the Kupruk epi-paleolithic, goat hunters north of the Hindu Kush and dated 16.6 ka.
https://www.academia.edu/5738814/Paleolithic_Afghanistan
They had developped a special technique to make microliths for which there is no precursor nowhere.
These microliths were all over the area north of the Hindu Kush. They did not exist int the Zarzian mesolithic Zagros mountains, nor anywhere else.
These microliths appeared with the neolithic Zagros like in Ganj Dareh.
The Kupruk neolithic is estimated to have started some 10 ka, same time as Ganj Dareh. The Kupruk neolithic was, just like Ganj Dareh based on goat herding and small plots of cereals and barley.
The neolithic in South-Asia started 9.5 ka in Bhirrana and 9 ka in Mehrgarh. It was an expansion of the Iran neolithic.
2 likely founding fathers are R2 subclade R-V3714 and J2a subclade J-Z2432.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V3714/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2432/
The ancestors of the Kupruk epi-paleolithic are not found yet, there is a 15000 year archeological gap north of the Hindu Kush. Maybe the ancestors came from elsewhere, maybe it is because there has not been any intensive searching in the area.
According to Genetiker AG2 was probably not R but Q1a1
| Russia | Mal'ta, Siberia [MA-1] Brown eyes; dark brown hair; dark skin | M | 24,520-24,090 cal BP | R* | Yfull split 28,2 ka | U* | Raghavan 2013; Fu 2016 | 1,439,501 | https://www.yfull.com/tree/R/ | |||||
| Russia | Afontova Gora [Afontova Gora 3] | F | 16,930-16,490 cal BP | R1b | Fu 2016 | 286,355 | ||||||||
| Russia | Afontova Gora [Afontova Gora 2] | M | 16,930-16,490 cal BP | Q1a1 F1215 xQ1a1b1a L713 | Wiki haplo Q Y-calls Genetiker 28/5/14 1+ 0- onzeker | R | Fu 2016 | 143,751 | https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/y-snp-calls-for-afontova-gora-2/ | |||||
IMO only 1 tribe survived LGM in south Siberia west of Lake Bajkal. It was not a R tribe, it was Q1a1.
The R tribes which survived had fled southwest to somewhere north of the Hindu Kush.
10 ka the Iran neolithic was in Ganj Dareh in the Zagros mountains and according to Genetiker it was an R2 tribe - be it admixed with CHG and Hotu Mesolithic J tribes
| Iran | Ganj Dareh [I1945 / GD 16] | M | 8000-7700 BCE | P1 (xQ, R1b1a2, R1a1a1b1a1b, R1a1a1b1a3a, R1a1a1b2a2a) > genetiker R2-M479 (2) > Y3399 (3) xY12100 (2- ;10,9ka ;10,9 ka) | P282+ (F1237.1-, FGC4603-, CTS12478-, CTS11962-, L448-, Z2123-) | J1c10 | Lazaridis 2016 | [FONT=Cumberland,Cumberland AMT,Courier New,Cousine,Liberation Mono,Nimbus Mono L,DejaVu Sans Mono,Bitstream Vera Sans Mono,Courier,Lucida Sans Typewriter,Lucida Typewriter,Monaco,Monospaced]I1945 Iran Neolithic R2a-Y3399 calls[/FONT] | ||||
| Iran | Ganj Dareh [I1949 / GD 37] | M | 8000-7700 BCE | CT > genetiker R2-M479 5 op 6 | M5593, PF228, M5624, PF342, Z17710, CTS2842, CTS5532, M5730, M5751, M5765, CTS11358. | None given | Lazaridis 2016 | [FONT=Cumberland,Cumberland AMT,Courier New,Cousine,Liberation Mono,Nimbus Mono L,DejaVu Sans Mono,Bitstream Vera Sans Mono,Courier,Lucida Sans Typewriter,Lucida Typewriter,Monaco,Monospaced]I1949 Iran Neolithic pre-R2-M479 calls[/FONT] |
The precursor of the Iran neolithic are the Kupruk epi-paleolithic, goat hunters north of the Hindu Kush and dated 16.6 ka.
https://www.academia.edu/5738814/Paleolithic_Afghanistan
They had developped a special technique to make microliths for which there is no precursor nowhere.
These microliths were all over the area north of the Hindu Kush. They did not exist int the Zarzian mesolithic Zagros mountains, nor anywhere else.
These microliths appeared with the neolithic Zagros like in Ganj Dareh.
The Kupruk neolithic is estimated to have started some 10 ka, same time as Ganj Dareh. The Kupruk neolithic was, just like Ganj Dareh based on goat herding and small plots of cereals and barley.
The neolithic in South-Asia started 9.5 ka in Bhirrana and 9 ka in Mehrgarh. It was an expansion of the Iran neolithic.
2 likely founding fathers are R2 subclade R-V3714 and J2a subclade J-Z2432.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V3714/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2432/
The ancestors of the Kupruk epi-paleolithic are not found yet, there is a 15000 year archeological gap north of the Hindu Kush. Maybe the ancestors came from elsewhere, maybe it is because there has not been any intensive searching in the area.
