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MINDustry
30-06-16, 03:01
Whenever any European runs the Dodecad or Eurogenes calculator they will end up getting a % of Southwest Asian, or Red Sea. At least, most of the Europeans that I see.

SW Asian and Red Sea percentages are Semitic correct?

Sile
30-06-16, 04:31
Whenever any European runs the Dodecad or Eurogenes calculator they will end up getting a % of Southwest Asian, or Red Sea. At least, most of the Europeans that I see.

SW Asian and Red Sea percentages are Semitic correct?

what?

Genetics is not based on language

RobertColumbia
27-07-16, 02:24
Whenever any European runs the Dodecad or Eurogenes calculator they will end up getting a % of Southwest Asian, or Red Sea. At least, most of the Europeans that I see.

SW Asian and Red Sea percentages are Semitic correct?

With the amount of mixing and migration that has happened over the past few thousand years, I would say that the likelihood that a random European has absolutely zero Semitic ancestors anywhere in their family tree is quite low. This doesn't mean that Europeans have a lot of Semitic ancestry.


what?

Genetics is not based on language

This is correct for today, but most research into ancient ethnicity does in fact use language as a convenient proxy because it is much easier to identify and compare than it is to identify and compare how those people viewed themselves.

I know it seems odd to consider, for example, the idea that the Sumerians may have "become" Semitic when they assimilated into the Babylonian/Akkadian language, but that is how it is characterized in the research. Whether these people considered themselves to be "Babylonian-Speaking Sumerians", "Babylonians", "Other Semites", "Zardoofians", "Nequodonthianespzinkidarmodians", "Those people who wear blue coats", or "Other" can not be discerned today, nor can we just look in the Comprehensive Babylonian Encyclopedia of Ethnic, Cultural, and Linguistic groups to find out how Babylonian anthropologists classified them.

oreo_cookie
27-07-16, 02:41
Not in general. SW Asian component came to Europe before Semitic languages even existed or were widespread. There is likely to be actual Semitic admixture (or rather, influence from people speaking Semitic languageS) in specific places though: Spain, Sicily, Malta, etc. where there was Phoenician influence on the coasts or a lot of assimilated Jews.

Angela
27-07-16, 03:17
You have no idea how many Jews were assimilated into European communities, or where, nor do you know how many Phoenicians actually settled in southern Europe, and nor does anyone else, unless you're aware of some paper analyzing ancient dna that none of the rest of us have seen. In terms of Sicily, you're talking about two emporia in one corner of the island.

In addition, the age of J2 and J1, the most likely candidate lineages, in southern Europe points to Bronze Age, way before the Phoenicians and Jews, at least from the information we have so far. Have you perhaps missed these discussions over at anthrogenica and here?

Angela
27-07-16, 04:29
Gentlemen, do we have some tag teaming going on here? I don't take kindly to that sort of thing.

Twilight
27-07-16, 04:53
Whenever any European runs the Dodecad or Eurogenes calculator they will end up getting a % of Southwest Asian, or Red Sea. At least, most of the Europeans that I see.

SW Asian and Red Sea percentages are Semitic correct?

Not nessesarily, Ydna J, G and E clans were Early Farmers, these clans made their way north West into Europe and kickstarted the Neolithic Revolution. The Farmers whom stayed behind took part of Mesopotamia, Abraham's crossing to Judea and in a lesser extent the Indus Valley.

Here is a Wikipedia page to get you started on your reaserch if interested ;)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Europe

Credit goes to Maciamo on these links
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml

davef
27-07-16, 05:07
@orio_cookie, you can't just say things without providing evidence. You're just going to have Angela come after you again if you don't, not to mention mislead novices such as myself.

@Twlighit-awesome chihuahua in your avatar. I want one of my own. Or at least five.

Twilight
27-07-16, 05:36
@orio_cookie, you can't just say things without providing evidence. You're just going to have Angela come after you again if you don't, not to mention mislead novices such as myself.

@Twlighit-awesome chihuahua in your avatar. I want one of my own. Or at least five.

Thank you, she's a 11 month old puppy Deer Chihuahua named Joey. Joey loves to go into pockets like a Joey Kangaroo :)

oreo_cookie
27-07-16, 09:19
In addition, the age of J2 and J1, the most likely candidate lineages, in southern Europe points to Bronze Age, way before the Phoenicians and Jews, at least from the information we have so far.

Then that is the same as what I said.. these lineages in Europe probably predate the Semitic languages as we know them today.

oreo_cookie
27-07-16, 09:22
@orio_cookie, you can't just say things without providing evidence. You're just going to have Angela come after you again if you don't, not to mention mislead novices such as myself.

No worries, I plan to leave this forum for good. You can all enjoy yourselves without my presence and input, I am sure you'll all be thankful to see me go. I won't be the thorn in everyone's side any longer.

davef
27-07-16, 16:30
No worries, I plan to leave this forum for good. You can all enjoy yourselves without my presence and input, I am sure you'll all be thankful to see me go. I won't be the thorn in everyone's side any longer.

That's totally untrue. You aren't the thorn in anyone's side, in fact you seem to offer a lot. Its your freedom to leave, but you seem to have absorbed quite a bit of knowledge over time and seem willing to help. You just need to post things that are backed up by studies and at times you do.
I don't encourage you to leave even though it's your right to go.

LeBrok
27-07-16, 16:35
No worries, I plan to leave this forum for good. You can all enjoy yourselves without my presence and input, I am sure you'll all be thankful to see me go. I won't be the thorn in everyone's side any longer.You are not leaving because some people don't agree with you on every point, are you?

Angela
27-07-16, 16:39
No worries, I plan to leave this forum for good. You can all enjoy yourselves without my presence and input, I am sure you'll all be thankful to see me go. I won't be the thorn in everyone's side any longer.

I'd say a gnat. :)

Everyone is entitled to present their ideas here, you know, so long as they're civilly presented. Thing is you have to be willing to face challenges about them...no vast generalizations without supporting data, for instance.

This isn't theapricity; we don't ban people for disagreeing with us, or straying from the party line.

Oh wait, internet chatter says it's out for the count, right? I guess people are searching for a new home. Sort of like refugees.

Well, like actual refugees, if they find the atmosphere of a new place uncongenial, they can indeed leave.

Again, from my very limited experience with that site, there was an awful lot of drama, including tearful pleas for forgiveness, declarations of banning oneself, equally tearful returns, all that sort of thing. You won't find that here.

When my ten year old told me she was running away from home, I told her I'd help her pack. :)

oreo_cookie
27-07-16, 17:17
Everyone is entitled to present their ideas here, you know, so long as they're civilly presented. Thing is you have to be willing to face challenges about them...no vast generalizations without supporting data, for instance.

I'll consider it then, but as of now there are no studies that address the specific points I wish to see proven or disproven, and as such anything I could discuss on them is hypothesis based on an accumulation of 23andme results, GEDmatch results, PCA plots and so on.

If this is not the type of data and presentation that is wanted here, then it's not that I am leaving out of malice or to make people sympathetic toward me, it is that I may not have anything to offer here and no one will take it seriously.

Angela
27-07-16, 17:40
I'll consider it then, but as of now there are no studies that address the specific points I wish to see proven or disproven, and as such anything I could discuss on them is hypothesis based on an accumulation of 23andme results, GEDmatch results, PCA plots and so on.

If this is not the type of data and presentation that is wanted here, then it's not that I am leaving out of malice or to make people sympathetic toward me, it is that I may not have anything to offer here and no one will take it seriously.

Well, I certainly don't take arguments based on unverifiable results from who knows whom, unscientifically collected and perhaps unrepresentative, from gedmatch and 23andme as dispositive of anything or even serious, so there you go, perhaps you're right.

Hauteville
28-07-16, 08:41
Well, I certainly don't take arguments based on unverifiable results from who knows whom, unscientifically collected and perhaps unrepresentative, from gedmatch and 23andme as dispositive of anything or even serious, so there you go, perhaps you're right.
Yes, he consider himself more scientific than academic studies, even if basically all of the Southern Italians and Sicilians I share fit perfectly on the average of academic samples...