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Yetos
15-07-16, 22:17
well the latest news and rumors say that military officeers took the power from Erdogan,

nothing is certain, except big Army movement are on the loose in Turkey big cities
Turkey has the second biggest Nato force conserning the man numbers,
and such movements can not pass unoticed,

well military training in such numbers and with out NOTAM surely is exclused,
the other option is about a very strong terroristic attack,

lets hope that the night will be calm,

Red alert has given to all nearby countries and military units,

Yetos
15-07-16, 22:33
it seems military officers are about to take the power fro Erdogan,

huge military forces are moving at all Turkey's big cities, airports etc,

i remind that Turkey has the second biggest army at Nato concerning human numbers,

red alert to all nearby countries has given,

prime minister of Turkey mr Yildirim says about an effort to take the power

http://www.matrix24.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/mpinali-gilntirim-447x330.jpg



well lets hope the night although seems long, pass as easy and quiet as can be.

since we have no names yet, I can not give any more infos,

Erdogan was vacations at Alicarnassos

Angela
15-07-16, 23:02
Just heard this on the news as I was driving. The Army was the last institution which Erdogan didn't control.

The military, or part of the military, has issued a statement that they have taken power and want to restore democracy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/

That web site has video of the tanks in the street.

A group within Turkey's military has attempted to overthrow the government and security forces have been called in to "do what is necessary," Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said on Friday.
"Some people illegally undertook an illegal action outside of the chain of command," Yildirim said in comments broadcast by private channel NTV. "The government elected by the people remains in charge. This government will only go when the people say so."
Those behind the attempted coup would pay the highest price, he added.

http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/turkey/1.731225

Yetos
15-07-16, 23:04
as it seems the high general of Turkish army forces is prisoner of the new status,

and only the Gokcek the mayor of Ankara is resisting and gathers civilians to 'free' the roads, a human shield to prevent the military forces,

arvistro
15-07-16, 23:25
So, did they succeed or not?
If yes, Turkey has hope. Turkish army as far as I know has always favored Ataturk's ideas.

John Doe
15-07-16, 23:27
So, did they succeed or not?
If yes, Turkey has hope. Turkish army as far as I know has always favored Ataturk's ideas.
So far they are succeeding, according to the news here the AK party's attempt to rally the population radiates a sign of weakness.
Let's not forget that Turkey has a tradition of these military coups since the birth of the Republic, so this isn't really a shock, honestly I was wondering what took so long, this ****head has been tramping over everything Attaturk has built and up until now it seemed like his power in Turkey was absolute.

arvistro
15-07-16, 23:28
Just heard this on the news as I was driving. The Army was the last institution which Erdogan didn't control.

Part of army was still free. Most of generals were replaced/ imprisoned.

Yetos
15-07-16, 23:38
well seems like Erdogan knew well what was going on to happened,

airlive.net the international watching system show that erdogan's presidential airplane has left from Turkey,

on the other hand the marks of boats show a huge movement at island of Kos at Aegan sea,
something remarkable for night hours,
probably Erdogan is at Nato forces that before few months deployed at Aegean sea,
Nobody knows, for sure,
there is also huge movement at Greece Govermental military forces, and red alert is on.
probably Erdogan will ask assylum to Aegean Nato (italy USA Canada Deutschland) ships or Greece, or escapes via greece if lost the power,

Yetos
15-07-16, 23:52
yup

the most certain is that he is at the German NATO ship of the Aegean forces.

that explains why NATO came and still stays at Aegean, although the immigration flew has decreased to about 0

Dinarid
16-07-16, 04:50
Good for them. Honestly I respected pan-Turkism- they kept the rabid Islamists in check, even if much of their history was based on lies, and this is from a Balkan Slav with a strong contempt for Islamic expansionism. They opposed both Islam and Eurasia. Now we've seen a synthesis of Islamism and pan-Turkism. Such a shame to the memory of the great pan-Turkist movement of the past. Regardless I could never get over the genocide of Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, etc. Turkey is falling. The Israeli leadership is stupid to try to revive its relationship with them. Israel should move on to Greece and Cyprus for friendship- although unfortunately many Greeks blame the Jews for the world's problems (no surprise there).

Dinarid
16-07-16, 04:54
I didn't realize you started two threads on this so I already stated my opinion on the other one (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32465-we-might-have-political-anomaly-at-Turkey).

arvistro
16-07-16, 11:07
They failed... Was that last chance for opposition?

bicicleur
16-07-16, 11:15
http://www.dailystormer.com/was-the-turkish-coup-an-erdogan-hoax/

Angela
16-07-16, 16:21
If anyone was still in doubt, Turkey should never have been included in NATO. Perhaps ten years ago, before Erdogan, it looked as if Turkey was on its way to becoming a modern, progressive, prosperous country. It no longer looks like that.

Erdogan is becoming a Hitler like dictator, in my opinion, with Muslim fundamentalism instead of white racism as his credo, and there were all those people on the streets cheering him on. Very disheartening.

Not, of course, that I favor military coups in general, but the Turkish army has had a history of intervening to actually bring the country back to democracy instead of vice versa. I guess they left it too long; half the army had been replaced.

This retreat into the past has infected Turkey as well, and I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the door of the Saudis and their funding of Islamic schools and other forms of fundamentalist propaganda.

The solution? I have no idea.

LeBrok
16-07-16, 17:06
This retreat into the past has infected Turkey as well, and I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the door of the Saudis and their funding of Islamic schools and other forms of fundamentalist propaganda.

The solution? I have no idea. A long steady grind against this ideology. No easy solution, though. Go after these clerics in mosques, madrasas and internet. To start the fight, let's stop buying Saudi's oil, this should get their attention.

Yetos
16-07-16, 19:38
the funny is that as president, he ban twitter and other internetic forms of communication,
yesterday he used Skype to communicate with his citizens,

anyway democracy is better, and as we see yesterday, many citizens defend their constitution,
except if the whole case was theatre,

but that makes Erdogan more powerfull, and I wonder about future,
how more west or deep islamic Turkey will be,

LeBrok
16-07-16, 22:45
the funny is that as president, he ban twitter and other internetic forms of communication,
yesterday he used Skype to communicate with his citizens,Hypocrisy worthy of a dictator.


anyway democracy is better, and as we see yesterday, many citizens defend their constitution,
except if the whole case was theatre,

but that makes Erdogan more powerfull, and I wonder about future,
how more west or deep islamic Turkey will be, Erdogan position was very strong to start with, same as Putin's position in Russia. They were elected by majority of citizens who dream about powerful Turkey, the old Ottoman Empire. Likewise, Russians about Russian Empire. "I will make Turkey great again!", "I will make Russia great again." I will make America great again, says Trump. A dictator in making.
Wake up sheep,... I mean, people.

Alan
17-07-16, 01:46
It's kinda funny, how some people here, obviously with not much idea about Kemalism are being supportive for a military coup. Let me tell you something about the military and this glorified "Westernized" Kemalistic ideology. It is the very basis of the racist Turkish education system. It is the reason why Turkey intervented in Cyprus (to my fellow Greeks).

If anyone thinks this military and Kemalism is going to change the country into the right direction they are being to optimistic. May I remind the very reason why the AKP has so much support in among the voters is the very inability of the former Kemalistic regime. Kemalism is not the solution but the very root of the evil in the Turkish society. AKP and the Kemalists don't take much from each other.

Yetos
17-07-16, 02:18
It's kinda funny, how some people here, obviously with not much idea about Kemalism are being supportive for a military coup. Let me tell you something about the military and this glorified "Westernized" Kemalistic ideology. It is the very basis of the racist Turkish education system. It is the reason why Turkey intervented in Cyprus (to my fellow Greeks).

If anyone thinks this military and Kemalism is going to change the country into the right direction they are being to optimistic. May I remind the very reason why the AKP has so much support in among the voters is the very inability of the former Kemalistic regime. Kemalism is not the solution but the very root of the evil in the Turkish society. AKP and the Kemalists don't take much from each other.

Alan,
do you know who supported the grey wolves?
Erdogan or military?

Wanderlust
17-07-16, 03:47
If anyone thinks this military and Kemalism is going to change the country into the right direction they are being to optimistic. May I remind the very reason why the AKP has so much support in among the voters is the very inability of the former Kemalistic regime. Kemalism is not the solution but the very root of the evil in the Turkish society. AKP and the Kemalists don't take much from each other.

Personally, I believe that certain countries and cultures are better served by centrist values, politics and governments--and Turkey is one of them. Though Kemalism implemented many progressive, secularist, socialist policies within post WW1 Turkey, it also ironically touched on Stalinist totalitarianism veiled as "nationalism" in a few places, as far as seeking to aggressively rid Turkey of "cultural difference" and unite all underneath a narrowly defined Turkish identity and homogeneity through state sponsored violence--which is why the Kurds and Armenians were persecuted, disenfranchised and massacred. Extreme-leftists can be just as intolerant and destructive as the right-wing.

I've said this elsewhere recently--fundamentalism in the modern world is more concerned with power, identity and legitimacy than it is to religion, which is usually secondary. Muslims find themselves in a peculiar position because unlike Christians, who have become thoroughly secular throughout much of the West and have a more decentralized and individualized notion of Christianity/spirituality/belief, Islam is intimately and innately attached to their identity; it's even more important than their ethnicity and nationality in many cases. And that identity is connected to a traditional value system that finds itself at odds with science, modernity, secularism and Western cultural dominance. Therefore, of course resistance and pushback in the form of an opposing ideology and worldview, rooted in fundamentalism, is to be expected. Historically--across all countries, peoples and belief systems, an inability to reconcile social complexity (power dynamics and hegemony/identity politics) lays at the heart of fundamentalist uprisings. Under Erdogan, the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction, which will have dire consequences for the Turkish people who are perhaps better served by a system that allows for all, both the traditional and the secular, to have equal voices.

I also think it's important to mention that Erdogan won the last election by a 52/48 margin, so it's not as if the Turkish people overwhelmingly chose an Islamist. There is a real tension between traditional Muslim values and the Western secular values. Interestingly enough, the USA finds itself in a somewhat similar situation--though a bit less volatile--as far as the tension between conservative Christian values and secular liberalism both vying for dominance.

Alan
17-07-16, 04:35
Alan,
do you know who supported the grey wolves?
Erdogan or military?
Both, but the AKP mostly because they use the grey wolves otherwise they have their own (Neo_Ottoman) agenda. However especially the military is infested by pro Grey wolves.
When the Military went on the streets many were making the Grey wolve sign.

This is the general who is responsible for the coup attempt. And you know who is also responsible for the destruction of Kurdish districts/cities of Sur and Cizir in this very year? Exactly it is the same guy. How can you expect from me that I take these guys as "saviours". Believe me when I tell you the military is even more racist and worse than AKP.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/13707692_1722996751294130_8010740015157399328_n.jp g?oh=10292f37f212b0dce4f609a3731edb1a&oe=5827A419&__gda__=1475013604_4cd630feabee11a2c0eae40734d5b41 a

The AKP is anti West, but they also show it. The Military is anti West but they are good in playing the double faced game. Remember how they went over to Cyprus infront of the eyes of NATO?

LABERIA
17-07-16, 04:50
Alan, you are a Kurd. So, your information is biased.
This is a sad moment in the modern history of Turkey. A failed putch is good oportunity for a dictator like Erdoğan, to fullfill his Islamic agenda. He is destroying any legacy of Ataturk. I see a Turkey now at the side of Russia and China, against West.

Alan
17-07-16, 05:27
That was basically the biggest nonsense argument I have been given since years. I might be Kurd but obviously my information is not biased, the article is from Turkish news paper. The very same guy who started the operations in destroying Kurdish cities with Tanks (the same general sent Tanks and Helicopters on to the streets of Istanbul why should he have any issues in doing it so in Kurdish cities), was also the guy who started this coup. If a fascist military tries to overthrow a powerhungry regime, don't expect from any sane and not biased individual, to be supportive for that. Ironiy is that you call my informations biased because your own judgement is biased due to your political view on this.

Dinarid
17-07-16, 05:39
Alan, you are a Kurd. So, your information is biased.
This is a sad moment in the modern history of Turkey. A failed putch is good oportunity for a dictator like Erdoğan, to fullfill his Islamic agenda. He is destroying any legacy of Ataturk. I see a Turkey now at the side of Russia and China, against West.
No, Turkey would rather ally with Qatar due to the Sunni dictatorship. Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would outweigh any benefits of Russia aligning with Turkey. Personally I wish that Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would turn their backs on Russia but Putin and his propaganda machine are really good at propping up Eurasianist political movements in other countries. Russia has no interest in Turkey but would rather try to counter America and Israel to seek favor with the Kurds.

LABERIA
17-07-16, 06:59
No, Turkey would rather ally with Qatar due to the Sunni dictatorship. Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would outweigh any benefits of Russia aligning with Turkey. Personally I wish that Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would turn their backs on Russia but Putin and his propaganda machine are really good at propping up Eurasianist political movements in other countries. Russia has no interest in Turkey but would rather try to counter America and Israel to seek favor with the Kurds.

Don't spend your time with hypothetical coalitions between countries that can offer only their geographical position. You need a key to understand a situation. Behind the conflicts, the wars, the different crisis and military putchs is the conflict between great powers. It is not a coincidence that a few days before the putch there was a mea culpa of Erdoğan about the Russian jet.


Of course, the interest of every country is important in the game, but not decisive. Who decide in the end are the big guys.

LABERIA
17-07-16, 07:02
double post.

Yetos
17-07-16, 08:58
Both, but the AKP mostly because they use the grey wolves otherwise they have their own (Neo_Ottoman) agenda. However especially the military is infested by pro Grey wolves.
When the Military went on the streets many were making the Grey wolve sign.
The AKP is anti West, but they also show it. The Military is anti West but they are good in playing the double faced game. Remember how they went over to Cyprus infront of the eyes of NATO?


well
Cyprus case is a big story that starts from 1950'
simply H Kissinger with up snd down jundas in Greece manage to revenge Greece and Makarios,
but all start from 1950's and 'Instambul Pogrom'
so I remind you someone that lower class Turks and farmers love in Turkey

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Adnan_Menderes_VI._Yasama_D%C3%B6nemi.jpg

among Erdogan and Menteres I see many common,
Grey wolfs were created at 1960's by Turces, but prexisted as idea, since many of them were at Instambul Pogrom
and my infos say that support Erdogan.

anyway, I said that democracy and elected goverments are always welcomed and legal,

so the last days militarry effort could be the end of Grey wolfs?
cause if some supported military and others Erdogan that means division

Dinarid
17-07-16, 09:03
Don't spend your time with hypothetical coalitions between countries that can offer only their geographical position. You need a key to understand a situation. Behind the conflicts, the wars, the different crisis and military putchs is the conflict between great powers. It is not a coincidence that a few days before the putch there was a mea culpa of Erdoğan about the Russian jet.


Of course, the interest of every country is important in the game, but not decisive. Who decide in the end are the big guys.
You theorized that Turkey will be pulled into Eurasia. My response was to observe and postulate about the relationship between America, Greece, Cyprus, Israel, Russia, and Turkey. These are facts. Israel does have an increasingly strong military alliance with Greece and Cyprus. Russia also does play a role for all of these countries. I see these hypothetical situations as quite useful- I don't quite understand your objection.

Maleth
17-07-16, 10:39
Turkish people have voted Erdogan in power (unless the votes were rigged which i dont think so) So why a coup? unless he decides that there will be no more elections and establish a dictatorship. Also in Egypt. Isn't this antidemocratic irrelevant to whether you agree with the policies or not? What I cannot understand is why people are happy to vote for these people in the first place? There must be many reasons for this, were people who live in different social structures will find it difficult to understand.

LABERIA
17-07-16, 11:19
Turkish people have voted Erdogan in power (unless the votes were rigged which i dont think so) So why a coup? unless he decides that there will be no more elections and establish a dictatorship. Also in Egypt. Isn't this antidemocratic irrelevant to whether you agree with the policies or not? What I cannot understand is why people are happy to vote for these people in the first place? There must be many reasons for this, were people who live in different social structures will find it difficult to understand.

It's not the first time when people choose democratically dictators or tyrants. This has to do with the low level of emancipation of this societies. Of course every country has it specifics. As a result of this situations there are this military putchs in order to protect the laicity or against the communism during the Cold War, etc.
About the putch in Turkey, i don't like the conspiracy theories but at least this putch can be considered bad organized. Personally i think that Erdoğan was aware of the possibility of putch, because this was the logic result of politicaly game in Turkey. So, he organized this trap and his internal enemies fell in this trap.

bicicleur
17-07-16, 12:01
Turkish people have voted Erdogan in power (unless the votes were rigged which i dont think so) So why a coup? unless he decides that there will be no more elections and establish a dictatorship. Also in Egypt. Isn't this antidemocratic irrelevant to whether you agree with the policies or not? What I cannot understand is why people are happy to vote for these people in the first place? There must be many reasons for this, were people who live in different social structures will find it difficult to understand.

because Erdogan takes controll over the press and the media
he limits free speech, punishing 'insults'
he is dividing the country and doesn't respect any human rights
he is replacing judges and military officers by men of his own environment
it looks like his ultimate goal is to abolish democracy

he is no better than Puttin

and indeed a majority of Turks was stupid enough to vote on him
I din't know how this can be resolved, I'm quite pessimistic
I'm glad they are not in the EU
shame on you, Frau Merkel to restart negociations

arvistro
17-07-16, 12:37
Negotiations may actually be a good thing. They come together with clauses and clauses demand for multiple reforms in civil rights, free speech, economy, etc, etc.
Apparently Turkey under Erdogan did not close any of those or so, but is good to at least try to push them into right direction.

Maleth
17-07-16, 12:46
This has to do with the low level of emancipation of this societies.


he limits free speech, punishing 'insults'
he is dividing the country and doesn't respect any human rights
he is replacing judges and military officers by men of his own environment
it looks like his ultimate goal is to abolish democracy

he is no better than Puttin

The flaws of democracy. It surely does not work well in any kind of situation (although much better then right out dictate) One can maneuver around it to be perceived less of a control freak nature.

Maleth
17-07-16, 12:57
Negotiations may actually be a good thing. They come together with clauses and clauses demand for multiple reforms in civil rights, free speech, economy, etc, etc.
Apparently Turkey under Erdogan did not close any of those or so, but is good to at least try to push them into right direction.

I agree that Negotiations are a good thing, unless someone decides that its ok to give up some of the basic fundamental values just to accommodate a country for a particular reason or another. The few Turks I came across were very secular (not to mention very nice and friendly people) but mostly came from Istanbul (if it makes any difference). But Turkey is a large country and it seems its going to take a very long time before they would feel genuinely comfortable being part of the EU and also of course the other way round.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 19:59
If anyone was still in doubt, Turkey should never have been included in NATO. Perhaps ten years ago, before Erdogan, it looked as if Turkey was on its way to becoming a modern, progressive, prosperous country. It no longer looks like that.

Erdogan is becoming a Hitler like dictator, in my opinion, with Muslim fundamentalism instead of white racism as his credo, and there were all those people on the streets cheering him on. Very disheartening.

Not, of course, that I favor military coups in general, but the Turkish army has had a history of intervening to actually bring the country back to democracy instead of vice versa. I guess they left it too long; half the army had been replaced.

This retreat into the past has infected Turkey as well, and I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the door of the Saudis and their funding of Islamic schools and other forms of fundamentalist propaganda.

The solution? I have no idea.
1- At the time when Turkey became a NATO member, it was the time of cold war, and surely Turkey at that time was much more secular and democratic than it's today. Last years it's shifting into a anti democratic regime. In my opinion if they don't change course, Turkey should be banned from NATO.

2- The army in Turkey it's the guarantor of the constitution. It's their job to protect the democracy in Turkey. Seems they failed. There are rumors that it was done by Erdogan himself

bicicleur
17-07-16, 19:59
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13680838_10209710418136483_1797798298055847896_n.j pg?oh=0b5b223c06a4b29007f88a92481ca29d&oe=58277E46

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:01
A long steady grind against this ideology. No easy solution, though. Go after these clerics in mosques, madrasas and internet. To start the fight, let's stop buying Saudi's oil, this should get their attention.
There are signs that Erdogan may change side. His ideology fits better with Russia/ China alliance.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:07
the funny is that as president, he ban twitter and other internetic forms of communication,
yesterday he used Skype to communicate with his citizens,

anyway democracy is better, and as we see yesterday, many citizens defend their constitution,
except if the whole case was theatre,

but that makes Erdogan more powerfull, and I wonder about future,
how more west or deep islamic Turkey will be,
Democracy! !!!! What citizens! !!!! They were all a bunch of extremist called for help by the Imams. The Imams throughout turkey called the Ezan at their mosques. It was exclusively for Erdogan. Do you know what it means? It's the first calling the Exan for someone and he was Erdogan. Probably you know that the call of Ezan it's exclusive to God, and this is the first time called for a human being. They are celebrating the new sultan or caliph.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:09
Hypocrisy worthy of a dictator.

Erdogan position was very strong to start with, same as Putin's position in Russia. They were elected by majority of citizens who dream about powerful Turkey, the old Ottoman Empire. Likewise, Russians about Russian Empire. "I will make Turkey great again!", "I will make Russia great again." I will make America great again, says Trump. A dictator in making.
Wake up sheep,... I mean, people.
Greater the state, smaller the people.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:14
It's kinda funny, how some people here, obviously with not much idea about Kemalism are being supportive for a military coup. Let me tell you something about the military and this glorified "Westernized" Kemalistic ideology. It is the very basis of the racist Turkish education system. It is the reason why Turkey intervented in Cyprus (to my fellow Greeks).

If anyone thinks this military and Kemalism is going to change the country into the right direction they are being to optimistic. May I remind the very reason why the AKP has so much support in among the voters is the very inability of the former Kemalistic regime. Kemalism is not the solution but the very root of the evil in the Turkish society. AKP and the Kemalists don't take much from each other.
No one it's saying that the military junta IRS good, but still better than the Erdogan's regime.
For the Kurds it's better the revival of the ottoman empire, because it means the destruction of the turkey. Of course you like the Erdogan. The true enemy of Turkey isn't Greece, nor Kurds, nor Russia, nor other countries, instead the true enemy it's the religious state represented by AKP and Erdogan.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:26
Personally, I believe that certain countries and cultures are better served by centrist values, politics and governments--and Turkey is one of them. Though Kemalism implemented many progressive, secularist, socialist policies within post WW1 Turkey, it also ironically touched on Stalinist totalitarianism veiled as "nationalism" in a few places, as far as seeking to aggressively rid Turkey of "cultural difference" and unite all underneath a narrowly defined Turkish identity and homogeneity through state sponsored violence--which is why the Kurds and Armenians were persecuted, disenfranchised and massacred. Extreme-leftists can be just as intolerant and destructive as the right-wing.

I've said this elsewhere recently--fundamentalism in the modern world is more concerned with power, identity and legitimacy than it is to religion, which is usually secondary. Muslims find themselves in a peculiar position because unlike Christians, who have become thoroughly secular throughout much of the West and have a more decentralized and individualized notion of Christianity/spirituality/belief, Islam is intimately and innately attached to their identity; it's even more important than their ethnicity and nationality in many cases. And that identity is connected to a traditional value system that finds itself at odds with science, modernity, secularism and Western cultural dominance. Therefore, of course resistance and pushback in the form of an opposing ideology and worldview, rooted in fundamentalism, is to be expected. Historically--across all countries, peoples and belief systems, an inability to reconcile social complexity (power dynamics and hegemony/identity politics) lays at the heart of fundamentalist uprisings. Under Erdogan, the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction, which will have dire consequences for the Turkish people who are perhaps better served by a system that allows for all, both the traditional and the secular, to have equal voices.

I also think it's important to mention that Erdogan won the last election by a 52/48 margin, so it's not as if the Turkish people overwhelmingly chose an Islamist. There is a real tension between traditional Muslim values and the Western secular values. Interestingly enough, the USA finds itself in a somewhat similar situation--though a bit less volatile--as far as the tension between conservative Christian values and secular liberalism both vying for dominance.
Actually, the AKP in last elections didn't won more than 50% , actually they went only to 49% , and the electoral process was doubtful. Not mentioning here the skirmishes between the turkey police and the Kurdish rebels went heavier at the time of the electoral process.

To conclude: the Erdogan and AKP has nothing to do with a democratically elected government.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:32
That was basically the biggest nonsense argument I have been given since years. I might be Kurd but obviously my information is not biased, the article is from Turkish news paper. The very same guy who started the operations in destroying Kurdish cities with Tanks (the same general sent Tanks and Helicopters on to the streets of Istanbul why should he have any issues in doing it so in Kurdish cities), was also the guy who started this coup. If a fascist military tries to overthrow a powerhungry regime, don't expect from any sane and not biased individual, to be supportive for that. Ironiy is that you call my informations biased because your own judgement is biased due to your political view on this.
As a Kurd you wish for the destruction of turkey. Erdogan it's succeeding in this. We need a democratic Turkey, and they are destroying it

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:39
No, Turkey would rather ally with Qatar due to the Sunni dictatorship. Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would outweigh any benefits of Russia aligning with Turkey. Personally I wish that Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would turn their backs on Russia but Putin and his propaganda machine are really good at propping up Eurasianist political movements in other countries. Russia has no interest in Turkey but would rather try to counter America and Israel to seek favor with the Kurds.
The true and the most desire of Russia, it's the alliance with Turkey. It would be the victory of the century for them. Putin knows well that the enemy isn't Turkey, but USA and NATO. Erdogan's goal it's the revive of Ottoman empire. This will never be allowed by NATO and he knows it. His expansionist ideas fits better with the expansionist ideas of Putin. This will be better for both. Tsar~ Putin alliance.

Russia doesn't care for Greece and they don't need Greece.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:40
Don't spend your time with hypothetical coalitions between countries that can offer only their geographical position. You need a key to understand a situation. Behind the conflicts, the wars, the different crisis and military putchs is the conflict between great powers. It is not a coincidence that a few days before the putch there was a mea culpa of Erdoğan about the Russian jet.


Of course, the interest of every country is important in the game, but not decisive. Who decide in the end are the big guys.
I was predicting this since a long time.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:45
You theorized that Turkey will be pulled into Eurasia. My response was to observe and postulate about the relationship between America, Greece, Cyprus, Israel, Russia, and Turkey. These are facts. Israel does have an increasingly strong military alliance with Greece and Cyprus. Russia also does play a role for all of these countries. I see these hypothetical situations as quite useful- I don't quite understand your objection.
Comparing Israel with Greece and Cyprus it's nonsense. The only ally of Israel it's USA. Greece and Cyprus are not enough strong to deal with the geo politics, instead Israel it is.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:49
Turkish people have voted Erdogan in power (unless the votes were rigged which i dont think so) So why a coup? unless he decides that there will be no more elections and establish a dictatorship. Also in Egypt. Isn't this antidemocratic irrelevant to whether you agree with the policies or not? What I cannot understand is why people are happy to vote for these people in the first place? There must be many reasons for this, were people who live in different social structures will find it difficult to understand.
Before 1990 there were held elections in my country every year. The communist party won the elections every time. The result 99% of voters voted pro the communist party [emoji16].

Erdogan democratically elected! ! Please, don't make me laugh [emoji19]

Yetos
17-07-16, 20:50
As a Kurd you wish for the destruction of turkey. Erdogan it's succeeding in this. We need a democratic Turkey, and they are destroying it


interresting words, 'WE NEED'?

are you a Turk?

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:54
because Erdogan takes controll over the press and the media
he limits free speech, punishing 'insults'
he is dividing the country and doesn't respect any human rights
he is replacing judges and military officers by men of his own environment
it looks like his ultimate goal is to abolish democracy

he is no better than Puttin

and indeed a majority of Turks was stupid enough to vote on him
I din't know how this can be resolved, I'm quite pessimistic
I'm glad they are not in the EU
shame on you, Frau Merkel to restart negociations
To add either the revoke of immunity of the deputies of parliament. They could be arrested at any moment if the Erdogan's security service this that any of them it's suspended for terrorism. They call it the anti terror law.

Piro Ilir
17-07-16, 20:59
I agree that Negotiations are a good thing, unless someone decides that its ok to give up some of the basic fundamental values just to accommodate a country for a particular reason or another. The few Turks I came across were very secular (not to mention very nice and friendly people) but mostly came from Istanbul (if it makes any difference). But Turkey is a large country and it seems its going to take a very long time before they would feel genuinely comfortable being part of the EU and also of course the other way round.
1- The Turks of European part and western Anatolia are more secular than the others.

2- the Turkish migrants are more westerners than the Turks living in Turkey. We have many here in my country and they looks not oriental.

Yetos
17-07-16, 23:56
well as it seems Turkey is moving to civil war,

by what Hamza hemze the Kurd says
Turkey's miltary groups have been seen at the mountains as rebels against Erdogan,
at least 40 helicopters missing etc etc

at Con/polis Allevi Turks tooks arms and guard the roads of their neighborhoods, since Erdogan's crowd is entering with attacking and hostile feelings
At Malateia tonight street fights and a kind of war/pogrom is on loose against Allevi and HDP party and kurds

well this story reminds me 1950's at Turkey and Menteres,
if Islamist take the power then about 30 000 000 Allevis and Kurds might ask asyllum at EU,

seems like Erdogan nowdays is playing his last cards,
either he manage to pass the Sunni Islamic Ottoman empire
either he will be hanged like Menteres
17 september is not far
the first total sunni state was created by Suleigman the magnificent when he killed Grand Vizier Ibrahim pasha, the Greek, and settled the Kadi (sunic law judges and lawers)
also Allevi Piri Reis and Greek Barbarosa although he sent the last one to Tynissia.

Erdogan has expelled his 2 early life and carrer friends
Fetullah Gullen
and Davutoglu
in fact like another Suleigman he created a Fetva against Gullen, and he asks his head,
I think his paths follow the Suleigman paths, or the Menteres steps

well I still support democracy and the elected goverment at Turkey,
but I think is time for new elections there.

to understand more what is happening to Turkey
look this
http://www.tribune.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/reduan_mesa.jpg

only the man is not Turk, but Morrocan, his name is Redouan Balch,
now why a morrocan is fighting for Erdogan?
I do not know, but I can guess,

Dinarid
18-07-16, 00:37
In the words of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk:

"This is Islam, an absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, a rotting corpse which poisons our lives".

Alan
18-07-16, 01:09
In words of Mr. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, "the Turk belongs to the best race on this world. The Turk is born to be a Ruler. Happy is the Person who can call himself a Turk. Turkic is the mother of all Human languages (Sun language theory).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory

But at least he was anti Islamic....

Alan
18-07-16, 01:15
because Erdogan takes controll over the press and the media
he limits free speech, punishing 'insults'
he is dividing the country and doesn't respect any human rights
he is replacing judges and military officers by men of his own environment
it looks like his ultimate goal is to abolish democracy




^This, there is no medial opposition to him anymore.

Dinarid
18-07-16, 07:24
In words of Mr. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, "the Turk belongs to the best race on this world. The Turk is born to be a Ruler. Happy is the Person who can call himself a Turk. Turkic is the mother of all Human languages (Sun language theory).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Language_Theory

But at least he was anti Islamic....
Exactly! I've actually read YouTube comments (never a good idea, and I'm embarrassed to admit it) from pan-Turkists who literally believe that the Native Americans are all Turks. However, we're dealing with a nation of 75-80 million people, and with a lot of potential, so if that pan-Turkism is strong enough to suppress Islam, then good for it! Unfortunately Erdoğan created a synthesis of pan-Turkism and Islam, and let's not forget Hungary's Jobbik party, which is a weird mixture of neo-nazism, pan-Turkism, Islamophilia, anti-Semitism, and Russophilia/Eurasianism, although I believe the latter is a more recent development.

bicicleur
18-07-16, 11:41
Exactly! I've actually read YouTube comments (never a good idea, and I'm embarrassed to admit it) from pan-Turkists who literally believe that the Native Americans are all Turks. However, we're dealing with a nation of 75-80 million people, and with a lot of potential, so if that pan-Turkism is strong enough to suppress Islam, then good for it! Unfortunately Erdoğan created a synthesis of pan-Turkism and Islam, and let's not forget Hungary's Jobbik party, which is a weird mixture of neo-nazism, pan-Turkism, Islamophilia, anti-Semitism, and Russophilia/Eurasianism, although I believe the latter is a more recent development.

Indeed, Erdogan himself is one of them. He claims America was discovered by Muslims before Colombus did.

arvistro
18-07-16, 12:33
so if that pan-Turkism is strong enough to suppress Islam, then good for it!
I think this is how Europe evolved to where it is today. Or maybe not. I just recall Euro being very religious in Medieval, then having a rise of Nationalism and then after both World Wars nationalism gave its way to other ideas.
Turks are now being pushed back from nationalism to religion, instead of (what you can actually observe with Turkish intelligence) moving on to more progressive state.

Piro Ilir
18-07-16, 18:16
interresting words, 'WE NEED'?

are you a Turk?
Why I should be! !!! Are you?

Piro Ilir
18-07-16, 18:19
well as it seems Turkey is moving to civil war,

by what Hamza hemze the Kurd says
Turkey's miltary groups have been seen at the mountains as rebels against Erdogan,
at least 40 helicopters missing etc etc

at Con/polis Allevi Turks tooks arms and guard the roads of their neighborhoods, since Erdogan's crowd is entering with attacking and hostile feelings
At Malateia tonight street fights and a kind of war/pogrom is on loose against Allevi and HDP party and kurds

well this story reminds me 1950's at Turkey and Menteres,
if Islamist take the power then about 30 000 000 Allevis and Kurds might ask asyllum at EU,

seems like Erdogan nowdays is playing his last cards,
either he manage to pass the Sunni Islamic Ottoman empire
either he will be hanged like Menteres
17 september is not far
the first total sunni state was created by Suleigman the magnificent when he killed Grand Vizier Ibrahim pasha, the Greek, and settled the Kadi (sunic law judges and lawers)
also Allevi Piri Reis and Greek Barbarosa although he sent the last one to Tynissia.

Erdogan has expelled his 2 early life and carrer friends
Fetullah Gullen
and Davutoglu
in fact like another Suleigman he created a Fetva against Gullen, and he asks his head,
I think his paths follow the Suleigman paths, or the Menteres steps

well I still support democracy and the elected goverment at Turkey,
but I think is time for new elections there.

to understand more what is happening to Turkey
look this
http://www.tribune.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/reduan_mesa.jpg

only the man is not Turk, but Morrocan, his name is Redouan Balch,
now why a morrocan is fighting for Erdogan?
I do not know, but I can guess,
What's your point? The Allevi are against Erdogan?

Piro Ilir
18-07-16, 18:26
Exactly! I've actually read YouTube comments (never a good idea, and I'm embarrassed to admit it) from pan-Turkists who literally believe that the Native Americans are all Turks. However, we're dealing with a nation of 75-80 million people, and with a lot of potential, so if that pan-Turkism is strong enough to suppress Islam, then good for it! Unfortunately Erdoğan created a synthesis of pan-Turkism and Islam, and let's not forget Hungary's Jobbik party, which is a weird mixture of neo-nazism, pan-Turkism, Islamophilia, anti-Semitism, and Russophilia/Eurasianism, although I believe the latter is a more recent development.
The latter it's a more recent event because Orban it's inspired by the autocratic rule of Putin

Dinarid
19-07-16, 00:57
I think this is how Europe evolved to where it is today. Or maybe not. I just recall Euro being very religious in Medieval, then having a rise of Nationalism and then after both World Wars nationalism gave its way to other ideas.
Turks are now being pushed back from nationalism to religion, instead of (what you can actually observe with Turkish intelligence) moving on to more progressive state.
Nationalism holds the society together, and is thus necessary for social progress.

Yetos
19-07-16, 15:30
as it seems the last events in turkey are huge

2750 judges 7500 policemans unknown military numbers, political persons from other parties
one vice major shot in head, etc etc reminds me the Menteres case at 1950's
or the kristallnacht, although yet is to early to say such, but i am sure it will turn to that way,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

DejaVu
21-07-16, 00:40
http://shqiperiaime.al/2016/07/16/grushti-i-shtetit-ne-turqi-arrestohet-gjenerali-i-lindur-ne-kosove/

http://inserbia.info/today/2016/07/organizers-of-coup-in-turkey-are-of-kosovo-albanian-origin-media/ (http://inserbia.info/today/2016/07/organizers-of-coup-in-turkey-are-of-kosovo-albanian-origin-media/)


Few days after the unsuccessful attempt of the Turkish army to take power in the country and overthrow Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the situation in Turkey is not calming down. Streets, where the war between the army on one, police and citizens on the other side, were last night full of people who went outside to support their president. As part of the investigation on the failed military coup so far was arrested 6000 people, more than 9000 police officers and almost 27000 employees from different sectors are dismissed.

Most military officers who took part in the attempted coup in Turkey are of Albanian origin, report Albanian portals. Of the total of 29 arrested generals and colonels 25 are of Albanian origin, among whom former commander of the Turkish Air Force, General Akin Ozturk and Second Army General Huduti Adem, both originating from Kosovo.
Among the main suspects for the military coup is pilot Yusuf Kurt, who shot down Russian aircraft, and who also originates from the village of Bukoroc near Prizren, Kosovo. One of the organizers of the military coup is also Lt.Gen. Metin Idil, who is also of Albanian origin.
Albanian portals state that Huduti, before taking command of the Turkish Second Army, commanded troops at the border with Russia and Greece, and was also the head of the Turkish forces in Afghanistan. Huduti was born in Recan, near Prizren, and his family moved to Turkey when he was five, while Ozturk originates from Kosovska Mitrovica.

Petros Houhoulis
22-07-16, 01:35
Alan, you are a Kurd. So, your information is biased.
This is a sad moment in the modern history of Turkey. A failed putch is good oportunity for a dictator like Erdoğan, to fullfill his Islamic agenda. He is destroying any legacy of Ataturk. I see a Turkey now at the side of Russia and China, against West.

So speaks the Albanian...

...Whose all life is biased.

Petros Houhoulis
22-07-16, 01:41
The true and the most desire of Russia, it's the alliance with Turkey. It would be the victory of the century for them. Putin knows well that the enemy isn't Turkey, but USA and NATO. Erdogan's goal it's the revive of Ottoman empire. This will never be allowed by NATO and he knows it. His expansionist ideas fits better with the expansionist ideas of Putin. This will be better for both. Tsar~ Putin alliance.

Russia doesn't care for Greece and they don't need Greece.

If you think that Russia fears NATO more than radical Islamism, think again...

LeBrok
22-07-16, 02:22
So speaks the Albanian...

...Whose all life is biased.Make sure you engage in conversation, and didn't come just for bashing ethnicities and to start new Balkan war.

Dinarid
22-07-16, 08:25
The latter it's a more recent event because Orban it's inspired by the autocratic rule of Putin
I wouldn't be so quick to judge him like that. I think Orbán doesn't bow down to the corrupt Brussels government, and is vilified for this. He has done a great job calling out Islam, and is a staunch supporter of Israel so I don't think Jobbik likes him very much. I agree, however, that it is worrying that he wants closer ties with Russia.

Dinarid
22-07-16, 08:26
If you think that Russia fears NATO more than radical Islamism, think again...
Russia is friends with the Islamic Republic of Iran, a mullah regime. I think it just depends on the kind of radical Islam.

LABERIA
22-07-16, 11:06
So speaks the Albanian...

...Whose all life is biased.

Houhoulis, are you the same person with a member in another forum with the nickname Kungullis?

Petros Houhoulis
22-07-16, 12:15
Russia is friends with the Islamic Republic of Iran, a mullah regime. I think it just depends on the kind of radical Islam.

When was the last time you heard the Shias sponsoring terrorism anywhere outside Israel, and (perhaps) Yemen?

Russia doesn't fear NATO. The real worry are asymmetrical attacks, and insurrections like the one in Chechnya. Both Russia and NATO respect each others' playing fields, even while vying to grasp a portion of the others' playing field. Russia would never make the mistake of attacking westwards. It is attacking southwards. NATO would not intervene (at least openly) even in Ukraine, as long as it is not a NATO member.

Petros Houhoulis
22-07-16, 12:27
Houhoulis, ...

Let me remind you who I am:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32487-Surge-in-Albanian-child-slaves-trafficked-to-Britain

LABERIA
22-07-16, 12:36
Let me remind you who I am:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32487-Surge-in-Albanian-child-slaves-trafficked-to-Britain

Now i understand who you are. Now i am sure that you and Kungullis are the same person. There is only a small detail, this other guy Kungullis is a bulgar who live in Greece, meanwhile from your profile i learn that you are a Greek.
Just for curiosity, attacking Albanians make you happy?

Petros Houhoulis
22-07-16, 12:44
I doubt you are capable of understanding anything, and yes, maybe I should update my profile stating that I have partial Bulgarian heritage.

I'd let the others judge who is attacking whom. In any case, I would like to inform you that I won't be insulted no matter how you call me. I have a really thick skin.

Furthermore, I am really curious to know why do you consider news items as "attacks". Besides, I have kept all the links and I am capable of discovering new ones...

LABERIA
22-07-16, 12:53
I doubt you are capable of understanding anything, and yes, maybe I should update my profile stating that I have partial Bulgarian heritage.

I'd let the others judge who is attacking whom. In any case, I would like to inform you that I won't be insulted no matter how you call me. I have a really thick skin.

Furthermore, I am really curious to know why do you consider news items as "attacks". Besides, I have kept all the links and I am capable of discovering new ones...

I have no doubt in your skills. You are famous, you are some kind of celebrity.
What's the point? I have to follow your example and start with the story of sandwich?

Petros Houhoulis
22-07-16, 13:03
I have no doubt in your skills. You are famous, you are some kind of celebrity.
What's the point? I have to follow your example and start with the story of sandwich?

Why don't you do so? I'll debunk it within a few hours at worst, and you'll have a hard time digging anything else upon us.

LABERIA
22-07-16, 13:29
Why don't you do so? I'll debunk it within a few hours at worst, and you'll have a hard time digging anything else upon us.

Because as i have explained in another post, this is not that kind of forum where an old and lonely man like you spend his long and boring days and nights, trollling teenagers. This is a serious and respected forum. Try to behave as civilised person. If this is difficult for you, well, we will not notice your abssence here.

Dinarid
24-07-16, 06:12
When was the last time you heard the Shias sponsoring terrorism anywhere outside Israel, and (perhaps) Yemen?

Russia doesn't fear NATO. The real worry are asymmetrical attacks, and insurrections like the one in Chechnya. Both Russia and NATO respect each others' playing fields, even while vying to grasp a portion of the others' playing field. Russia would never make the mistake of attacking westwards. It is attacking southwards. NATO would not intervene (at least openly) even in Ukraine, as long as it is not a NATO member.
I think Hezbollah in Lebanon is a pretty good example. Also in Israel most terroristic activity is related to Hamas, which is aligned with Sunni movements, although the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine quite clearly does have the backing of Shia groups.

Dinarid
25-07-16, 03:13
As far as the Balkan War that's been started on this thread… well… I guess it's good to know that Slavs aren't the only ones in the Balkans who go around internet forums provoking each other.

Piro Ilir
27-07-16, 22:22
Nationalism holds the society together, and is thus necessary for social progress.
What! !!!!! And what about USA. The most powerful state since the time of Roman empire! !!!!! According to your theory, Americans are the most nationalists of the world

Piro Ilir
27-07-16, 22:27
http://shqiperiaime.al/2016/07/16/grushti-i-shtetit-ne-turqi-arrestohet-gjenerali-i-lindur-ne-kosove/

http://inserbia.info/today/2016/07/organizers-of-coup-in-turkey-are-of-kosovo-albanian-origin-media/ (http://inserbia.info/today/2016/07/organizers-of-coup-in-turkey-are-of-kosovo-albanian-origin-media/)


Few days after the unsuccessful attempt of the Turkish army to take power in the country and overthrow Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the situation in Turkey is not calming down. Streets, where the war between the army on one, police and citizens on the other side, were last night full of people who went outside to support their president. As part of the investigation on the failed military coup so far was arrested 6000 people, more than 9000 police officers and almost 27000 employees from different sectors are dismissed.

Most military officers who took part in the attempted coup in Turkey are of Albanian origin, report Albanian portals. Of the total of 29 arrested generals and colonels 25 are of Albanian origin, among whom former commander of the Turkish Air Force, General Akin Ozturk and Second Army General Huduti Adem, both originating from Kosovo.
Among the main suspects for the military coup is pilot Yusuf Kurt, who shot down Russian aircraft, and who also originates from the village of Bukoroc near Prizren, Kosovo. One of the organizers of the military coup is also Lt.Gen. Metin Idil, who is also of Albanian origin.
Albanian portals state that Huduti, before taking command of the Turkish Second Army, commanded troops at the border with Russia and Greece, and was also the head of the Turkish forces in Afghanistan. Huduti was born in Recan, near Prizren, and his family moved to Turkey when he was five, while Ozturk originates from Kosovska Mitrovica.



Other turkish coups were made also by Turkish military officers of Albanian ethnic origin (1980).

Piro Ilir
27-07-16, 22:30
If you think that Russia fears NATO more than radical Islamism, think again...
What harm can do radical islamists to Russia?

These days will be a meeting Putin~ Erdogan at Saint Petersburg. There you will see. ....

Petros Houhoulis
27-07-16, 22:35
Because as i have explained in another post, this is not that kind of forum where an old and lonely man like you spend his long and boring days and nights, trollling teenagers. This is a serious and respected forum. Try to behave as civilised person. If this is difficult for you, well, we will not notice your abssence here.

Since when did I post anything uncivilized? Since when are you a moderator in this forum?

Poor kid, at least try to spell English properly...

Petros Houhoulis
27-07-16, 22:38
I think Hezbollah in Lebanon is a pretty good example. Also in Israel most terroristic activity is related to Hamas, which is aligned with Sunni movements, although the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine quite clearly does have the backing of Shia groups.

Hezbollah is inefficient against Israel anyway. Even more so since Iran is consumed at defending Assad and has naturally neglected Palestine, which was a lost cause to begin with and received the fatal blow with the repercussions of the Arab Spring.

In other news, Iran has not initiated an invasion of another country for more than a century...

Piro Ilir
27-07-16, 22:43
I wouldn't be so quick to judge him like that. I think Orbán doesn't bow down to the corrupt Brussels government, and is vilified for this. He has done a great job calling out Islam, and is a staunch supporter of Israel so I don't think Jobbik likes him very much. I agree, however, that it is worrying that he wants closer ties with Russia.
I predicted years ago the Erdogan's shift from the West, at the eastern Shanghai alliance/pact. People said to me that it will never happen, due to the history Russia and Turkey had. I just laugh. It's happening unfortunately. Turkey it's out of NATO' de facto '. Instead, Victor Orban is a small leader, hence Putin has not a big interest on him. Otherwise is Erdogan and Turkey, which is a strategic key for the geopolitical games of Putin. The balance of power is moving.

Piro Ilir
27-07-16, 22:45
Russia is friends with the Islamic Republic of Iran, a mullah regime. I think it just depends on the kind of radical Islam.
Russia doesn't care what kind of regime they have. The Russian's true enemy is NATO, not some regional powers, such as Iran and Turkey.

Piro Ilir
27-07-16, 22:48
When was the last time you heard the Shias sponsoring terrorism anywhere outside Israel, and (perhaps) Yemen?

Russia doesn't fear NATO. The real worry are asymmetrical attacks, and insurrections like the one in Chechnya. Both Russia and NATO respect each others' playing fields, even while vying to grasp a portion of the others' playing field. Russia would never make the mistake of attacking westwards. It is attacking southwards. NATO would not intervene (at least openly) even in Ukraine, as long as it is not a NATO member.
There's already a crash between NATO and the Shanghai pact. The skirmishes between China and USA are at high levels in southern China sea. Not mentioning Ukraine, Syria, Balkans etc

Petros Houhoulis
27-07-16, 22:52
As far as the Balkan War that's been started on this thread… well… I guess it's good to know that Slavs aren't the only ones in the Balkans who go around internet forums provoking each other.

War? You don't know what war means. For me the Balkans weren't enough, I used to take on Chechens and Somalis and any Muslim I could pick in the crosshairs after I had finished with the usual Balkaners plus Turks!

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/57939348.jpg

Provoking wasn't my style. I work mostly by quoting news sources. Few can survive the onslaught...

Athiudisc
27-07-16, 22:54
What harm can do radical islamists to Russia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

Petros Houhoulis
27-07-16, 22:55
What harm can do radical islamists to Russia?

These days will be a meeting Putin~ Erdogan at Saint Petersburg. There you will see. ....

Last time I checked radical Islamists were not controlled by Erdogan or anybody else.

No radical Islamist can force permanent damage to any state, but they can piss off quite a few people to the point of forcing more confrontational governments...

Petros Houhoulis
27-07-16, 22:56
I predicted years ago the Erdogan's shift from the West, at the eastern Shanghai alliance/pact. People said to me that it will never happen, due to the history Russia and Turkey had. I just laugh. It's happening unfortunately. Turkey it's out of NATO' de facto '. Instead, Victor Orban is a small leader, hence Putin has not a big interest on him. Otherwise is Erdogan and Turkey, which is a strategic key for the geopolitical games of Putin. The balance of power is moving.

The best Erdogan can hope for, is to become Putins' poodle. Don't even think Putin would ever consider treating him as an equal...

...Furthermore, Turkey carries a lot of baggage: Chechnya, Uighurs, the Crimean Tatars, the Karabakh conflict... Which means that Turkey shall never be welcomed with open arms either by Russia or China...

Petros Houhoulis
27-07-16, 22:59
There's already a crash between NATO and the Shanghai pact. The skirmishes between China and USA are at high levels in southern China sea. Not mentioning Ukraine, Syria, Balkans etc

All of this is nothing more than the extension of the cold war, and no bloodshed to speak of. Syria has been left to Russia by Obama, the Balkan conflicts are almost settled by now.

LeBrok
28-07-16, 02:48
War? You don't know what war means. For me the Balkans weren't enough, I used to take on Chechens and Somalis and any Muslim I could pick in the crosshairs after I had finished with the usual Balkaners plus Turks!



Provoking wasn't my style. I work mostly by quoting news sources. Few can survive the onslaught...Who are you quoting? Because if these are your personal thoughts you on a fast track of being banned. Stay civil.

Piro Ilir
31-07-16, 18:03
Hezbollah is inefficient against Israel anyway. Even more so since Iran is consumed at defending Assad and has naturally neglected Palestine, which was a lost cause to begin with and received the fatal blow with the repercussions of the Arab Spring.

In other news, Iran has not initiated an invasion of another country for more than a century...
Hezbollah it's controlled by the Iranian islamist regime. Assad of Syria it's controlled by the Russian regime, and either it have close relationships with Iran. Indeed Iran ordered Hezbollah to settle in Syria for helping the Assad' s regime. So, Israel it's surrounded today by hostile entities, especially if we consider even the Turkish defection from NATO.

Piro Ilir
31-07-16, 18:07
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege
Is that considered a harm! !!!! You think that Putin cares about these damages! The populace of Russia is 144 million.

Piro Ilir
31-07-16, 18:10
Last time I checked radical Islamists were not controlled by Erdogan or anybody else.

No radical Islamist can force permanent damage to any state, but they can piss off quite a few people to the point of forcing more confrontational governments...
Yes, that was my point. Russia it's the second global power, and surely it's nonsense saying that Putin it's frighten by some kamikazes.

Piro Ilir
31-07-16, 18:15
The best Erdogan can hope for, is to become Putins' poodle. Don't even think Putin would ever consider treating him as an equal...

...Furthermore, Turkey carries a lot of baggage: Chechnya, Uighurs, the Crimean Tatars, the Karabakh conflict... Which means that Turkey shall never be welcomed with open arms either by Russia or China...
No, Erdogan will be not his poodle. The Shanghai pact, knows well that their world' s opponent is NATO and the western world, so they will give to Erdogan many grants. They need Erdogan and Erdogan needs them. No one will be the poodle of anyone.

Piro Ilir
31-07-16, 18:20
All of this is nothing more than the extension of the cold war, and no bloodshed to speak of. Syria has been left to Russia by Obama, the Balkan conflicts are almost settled by now.
There will be not a direct total war between NATO and the Shanghai pact, it's nonsense. This doesn't mean that we shall not see bloodshed in certain regions such as Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, etc.

As for Syria, I don't know if NATO left Syria to Putin. Syria was under Russian control until five years ago. We should wait for the new policy of Clinton.

Piro Ilir
31-07-16, 19:53
Who are you quoting? Because if these are your personal thoughts you on a fast track of being banned. Stay civil.
Le Brok, did you deleted one of my posts? I think yes. Could you tell me why.

LeBrok
31-07-16, 20:53
Le Brok, did you deleted one of my posts? I think yes. Could you tell me why.
You have to be more specific. If it was deleted it would show as deleted with moderator name in it.

LABERIA
01-08-16, 15:18
http://www.news.com.au/world/reports-turkish-troops-have-sealed-off-incirlik-usnato-nuclear-air-base/news-story/4d7bb16e4e86842218b5b0d7d70f582b

Piro Ilir
01-08-16, 17:36
You have to be more specific. If it was deleted it would show as deleted with moderator name in it.
I don't know much about forums. I just found that post in a quote by another member .

If you think that one of my post is not appropriate for the thread, you are pleased to give me an warning. Please don't delete my posts nor move my posts to another thread. If I again after the warning continue to make infractions against the thread, you are pleased to ban me out of the forum. I don't like the censure. That is against human dignity.

Yetos
02-08-16, 22:45
as it seems lately,
the military action was already doomed, cause did not happened by Turk officers,

but from Turk-Albanians, who manage to raise even to high command generals of 2nd Army,

http://www.tribune.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/turkish_generals-630x400.jpg


that explains why the 2 F16 fighters did not shut-down Erdogan's presidential airplane,

it seems like lower rank officer's and ordinary soldiers, did not want to, and Erdogan was warned even months before that such a thing would happened, and his secret services work,

From the 29 high rank officers 25 are Albanians


Yusuf kurt

http://gsb.gov.tr/public/images/GSB/012014/yuzbasi-yusuf-kurt.jpg

the pilot who shot the Russian plane and put the problem among Russia and Turkey is born at Prizren, Turk-Albanian area of Kossyfo

Akin Ozturk

http://resources.sport-fm.gr/supersportFM/images/news/16/07/16/174629.jpg?w=880&f=bicubic

Turkish airforces commander, Born at Albanian area of Kossovo


Adem Huduti
http://en.apa.az/upload/images/news/2016/july/16/big/65d23f045869ef2cfc207f27a71b369e.jpg

High commander of 2nd Turkish army , Born at Albanian area of Kossovo
2nd Turkish army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Army_(Turkey)


Metin Iyidli(turkish name) or Idil (albanian name)
http://media-cdn.t24.com.tr/media/stories/2016/07/page_edok-komutani-metin-iyidil-tutuklandi_795361373.jpg

the brain, and the designer of the military effort, Born in Turkey, Albanian origin of a family that served Turkey military forces almost a century,
moved to Turkey at 1920's following the defeated Turkish army.

as you see THE TURK-ALBANIANS STILL HOLD STRONG.
they could even turn the 'Sultan' down.

the story of the western sword,
the myths of islam say that moon crescends and swords are the same, but they move, till they make the turn of the world,
so the 3 cresends that turkey and pakistan once have, now have moved,
the west sword has pass from Turkey to Albania at early 1900 AD when the area was known and discussed to get autonomy as West Turkey.
and the Pakistn 3 crescends had moved East of India, to indo-china and Indonesia,
what stoped the West Turkey autonomy, and created Albania is the 10% catholics, which Italy and Austria believed that can rule the land
and the old 23% Orthodox, (today less than 13%) that have the Protocol of Corfu.

Garrick
03-08-16, 11:16
They are eternal allies.

Turkey builds in Tirana the biggest mosque in the Balkan

http://www.balkaneu.com/turkey-builds-tirana-biggest-mosque-balkan/

http://www.balkaneu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/erdogan-IBNA2-565x377.jpg

DuPidh
03-08-16, 22:43
If anyone was still in doubt, Turkey should never have been included in NATO. Perhaps ten years ago, before Erdogan, it looked as if Turkey was on its way to becoming a modern, progressive, prosperous country. It no longer looks like that.

Erdogan is becoming a Hitler like dictator, in my opinion, with Muslim fundamentalism instead of white racism as his credo, and there were all those people on the streets cheering him on. Very disheartening.

Not, of course, that I favor military coups in general, but the Turkish army has had a history of intervening to actually bring the country back to democracy instead of vice versa. I guess they left it too long; half the army had been replaced.

This retreat into the past has infected Turkey as well, and I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the door of the Saudis and their funding of Islamic schools and other forms of fundamentalist propaganda.

The solution? I have no idea.

I am not an expert on Turkey but saying that Erdogan is becoming like Hitler is an exaggeration or an emotional statement . I see him most as a religious zealot who can do a lot of harm to his countrymen and women but not much in the wider sense. Turkey has had the golden economic age under Erdogan reign, so that has made a lot of his religious supporters to rally behind him. I am not able to say that his presence as a leader has had a role in the economy or he was simply lucky, being a leader when the economy was gouing to grow anyway. As long as he keeps growing the economy ,his supporters will rally behind him but if the economy sours so will his supporters. Erdogan has not much room to maneuver on his foreign policies. His economy is anemic and depends a lot on Europe where he sells his products. If the Europeans decides enough is enough his days are numbered.

Piro Ilir
05-08-16, 12:39
They are eternal allies.

Turkey builds in Tirana the biggest mosque in the Balkan

http://www.balkaneu.com/turkey-builds-tirana-biggest-mosque-balkan/

http://www.balkaneu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/erdogan-IBNA2-565x377.jpg
You are derailing the thread. It's almost impossible for you to have a normal discussion, without using your anti Albanian propaganda/rhetoric .

The closest allies of albania are the Americans

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/c0d3cab51b79976e71c3d8623dfdaaa7.jpg

From Kosova with love. ....[emoji12]
Scanderbeg "salutes" you , Garric

Piro Ilir
05-08-16, 12:43
as it seems lately,
the military action was already doomed, cause did not happened by Turk officers,

but from Turk-Albanians, who manage to raise even to high command generals of 2nd Army,

http://www.tribune.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/turkish_generals-630x400.jpg


that explains why the 2 F16 fighters did not shut-down Erdogan's presidential airplane,

it seems like lower rank officer's and ordinary soldiers, did not want to, and Erdogan was warned even months before that such a thing would happened, and his secret services work,

From the 29 high rank officers 25 are Albanians


Yusuf kurt

http://gsb.gov.tr/public/images/GSB/012014/yuzbasi-yusuf-kurt.jpg

the pilot who shot the Russian plane and put the problem among Russia and Turkey is born at Prizren, Turk-Albanian area of Kossyfo

Akin Ozturk

http://resources.sport-fm.gr/supersportFM/images/news/16/07/16/174629.jpg?w=880&f=bicubic

Turkish airforces commander, Born at Albanian area of Kossovo


Adem Huduti
http://en.apa.az/upload/images/news/2016/july/16/big/65d23f045869ef2cfc207f27a71b369e.jpg

High commander of 2nd Turkish army , Born at Albanian area of Kossovo
2nd Turkish army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Army_(Turkey)


Metin Iyidli(turkish name) or Idil (albanian name)
http://media-cdn.t24.com.tr/media/stories/2016/07/page_edok-komutani-metin-iyidil-tutuklandi_795361373.jpg

the brain, and the designer of the military effort, Born in Turkey, Albanian origin of a family that served Turkey military forces almost a century,
moved to Turkey at 1920's following the defeated Turkish army.

as you see THE TURK-ALBANIANS STILL HOLD STRONG.
they could even turn the 'Sultan' down.

the story of the western sword,
the myths of islam say that moon crescends and swords are the same, but they move, till they make the turn of the world,
so the 3 cresends that turkey and pakistan once have, now have moved,
the west sword has pass from Turkey to Albania at early 1900 AD when the area was known and discussed to get autonomy as West Turkey.
and the Pakistn 3 crescends had moved East of India, to indo-china and Indonesia,
what stoped the West Turkey autonomy, and created Albania is the 10% catholics, which Italy and Austria believed that can rule the land
and the old 23% Orthodox, (today less than 13%) that have the Protocol of Corfu.
Could you make a concentrate point. I don't understand this long elaboration from you.

Why you are mingling Albanians with everything. It looks like they are your nightmare [emoji23]

Piro Ilir
05-08-16, 12:51
What has to do the protocol of Corfu, with the military coup in Turkey! !!!

Sent from my LG-E460 using Tapatalk

Piro Ilir
05-08-16, 12:52
What has to do the things you brought in your post about Albania, with the current situation in Turkey! !!!

Sent from my LG-E460 using Tapatalk

Garrick
05-08-16, 15:31
You are derailing the thread. It's almost impossible for you to have a normal discussion, without using your anti Albanian propaganda/rhetoric .

No, it is about thread, because Neo-Ottoman agenda.

And not only for Balkans, even Arabs write about it:

Modern day Turkey has made strenuous efforts to improve the image of Ottomanism in the Arab world

http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/few-if-any-remember-the-great-arab-revolt-on-its-100th-anniversary-1.1843017
(http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/few-if-any-remember-the-great-arab-revolt-on-its-100th-anniversary-1.1843017)
Erdogan is very proud of his Ottoman past and makes no attempt at hiding this. He insisted that Ottoman-Arab relations were never as bad as Arab history claimed them to be after the First World War. To rewrite that history, he needed Arab fans to believe in what was then called "neo-Ottomanism".

Piro Ilir
11-08-16, 16:57
No, it is about thread, because Neo-Ottoman agenda.

And not only for Balkans, even Arabs write about it:

Modern day Turkey has made strenuous efforts to improve the image of Ottomanism in the Arab world

http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/few-if-any-remember-the-great-arab-revolt-on-its-100th-anniversary-1.1843017
(http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/syria/few-if-any-remember-the-great-arab-revolt-on-its-100th-anniversary-1.1843017)
Erdogan is very proud of his Ottoman past and makes no attempt at hiding this. He insisted that Ottoman-Arab relations were never as bad as Arab history claimed them to be after the First World War. To rewrite that history, he needed Arab fans to believe in what was then called "neo-Ottomanism".
As probably you know many of the turkish military commanders of the supposed coup were of Albanian origin. So, even the Albanian minority of Turkey are against this ottoman uprising of Erdogan.

In Macedonia, Kosova and Albania, there are some schools and colleges controlled and owned by Fetulah Gulen. Erdogan during his visits in Albania and Kosovo, demanded to the government for the closure of these schools. He said clearly, that if Albania wish for good relationships with Turkey, every activity of Gulen in the aforementioned countries should be closed. The responses were definitely negative. Albania and Kosovo are sovereign countries, and definitely they don't take orders from Turkey. (Especially an Ottoman Turkey)


If Erdogan wants to revive the ottoman state, that is his business. You probably know well that the national hero of Albanians is George Kastrioti, and no one forced them to make him a hero.

In Europe the Albanians were the most nation that was harmed by the ottoman empire, and thus, they will be the first to oppose any kind of Ottoman revival.

As for the mosque, : After 25 years of democracy, the Sunni branch of Muslims in Tirana don't have a cathedral mosque, like the other religions do(Orthodox, Catholic and Bektashi), thus I don't see any problem if they have a place for their worshiping. The mosques in Tirana are very small, and people are praying on the streets(Friday). I think it's part of democracy allowing them to have a decent religious site .

It would be more interesting to talk about Turkey, rather than talking about Albanians all the time.

Garrick
12-08-16, 22:47
As probably you know many of the turkish military commanders of the supposed coup were of Albanian origin. So, even the Albanian minority of Turkey are against this ottoman uprising of Erdogan.

In Macedonia, Kosova and Albania, there are some schools and colleges controlled and owned by Fetulah Gulen. Erdogan during his visits in Albania and Kosovo, demanded to the government for the closure of these schools. He said clearly, that if Albania wish for good relationships with Turkey, every activity of Gulen in the aforementioned countries should be closed. The responses were definitely negative. Albania and Kosovo are sovereign countries, and definitely they don't take orders from Turkey. (Especially an Ottoman Turkey)


If Erdogan wants to revive the ottoman state, that is his business. You probably know well that the national hero of Albanians is George Kastrioti, and no one forced them to make him a hero.

In Europe the Albanians were the most nation that was harmed by the ottoman empire, and thus, they will be the first to oppose any kind of Ottoman revival.

As for the mosque, : After 25 years of democracy, the Sunni branch of Muslims in Tirana don't have a cathedral mosque, like the other religions do(Orthodox, Catholic and Bektashi), thus I don't see any problem if they have a place for their worshiping. The mosques in Tirana are very small, and people are praying on the streets(Friday). I think it's part of democracy allowing them to have a decent religious site .

It would be more interesting to talk about Turkey, rather than talking about Albanians all the time.

Piro
You know better that are close ties between Turkey and Albania, religious, business, cultural and each other.

When Erdogan visited Albania last year:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/13/turkey-erdogan-visits-albania-along-with-100-businessmen-to-discuss-economic.html

"Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is visiting Albania to discuss increasing economic ties with the small Balkan nation, heading a delegation of about 100 businessmen as he arrived in the capital for meetings with Albanian government officials.

Turkey is one of Albania's main trading partners and investors. Erdogan, who last visited the country six years ago, was meeting Wednesday with his counterpart Bujar Nishani and Prime Minister Edi Rama.


During his visit, Erdogan was to inaugurate the start of construction on a 20,000-square-meter mosque to be built next to the parliament building in the capital Tirana. The Namazgja Mosque will put an end to praying on the main Boulevard Martyrs of the Nation during Muslim religious ceremonies.


Albania's 3.2 million population is predominantly Muslim."

...

It is impossible that we discuss about Turkey and exclude other states, especially in the Balkans, due to Neo-Ottoman agenda.

Piro Ilir
13-08-16, 12:23
Piro
You know better that are close ties between Turkey and Albania, religious, business, cultural and each other.

When Erdogan visited Albania last year:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/13/turkey-erdogan-visits-albania-along-with-100-businessmen-to-discuss-economic.html

"Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is visiting Albania to discuss increasing economic ties with the small Balkan nation, heading a delegation of about 100 businessmen as he arrived in the capital for meetings with Albanian government officials.

Turkey is one of Albania's main trading partners and investors. Erdogan, who last visited the country six years ago, was meeting Wednesday with his counterpart Bujar Nishani and Prime Minister Edi Rama.


During his visit, Erdogan was to inaugurate the start of construction on a 20,000-square-meter mosque to be built next to the parliament building in the capital Tirana. The Namazgja Mosque will put an end to praying on the main Boulevard Martyrs of the Nation during Muslim religious ceremonies.


Albania's 3.2 million population is predominantly Muslim."

...

It is impossible that we discuss about Turkey and exclude other states, especially in the Balkans, due to Neo-Ottoman agenda.
Erdogan has a neo Ottoman agenda. Nothing surprising in it.

I explained in my previous post what was the intention of Erdogan during that visit in Tirana. He brought with him these turkish businessmans as a pressure against the albanian government. He offered economic investments, as a reward for the closure of the education institutions controlled by Fetulah Gulen. The response of government of Tirana was negative. They refused every Turkish demand for the closure of these schools. I responded about the mosque. As long as there is a Christian orthodox cathedral in center Tirana, and also a Catholic cathedral church , l don't see anything wrong if the Sunni don't have their own cathedral mosque in Tirana. Better paying for that mosque the Turks/Arabs than spending money the Albanian government.

Using the Erdogan's agenda of the neo ottomanism, against the Albanian state, it won't give profits.

Albania it's a multi religious country. Bektashi, Sunni, Orthodox, Catholic, etc. Any from these religions according to the constitution, have the right of using religious sites. Just to mention: The current Albanian prime minister of albania is democratically elected(Edi Rama) . He is a Catholic. Before being elected as prime minister, he was elected three mandates (eleven years) as the mayor of tirana 2000-2011. The current mayor of Tirana is a Christian protestant.

The most anti Erdogan turkish people, except the Kurds, are the turkish citizens of Albanian origin. The last arrest order is for the famous former turkish football player, and current turkish politician Hakan Shukur, whose is of Albanian origin.

Any serious fact shows that the Albanians of Albania, Greece, Kosova and Turkey are against Erdogan. The only Albanian population which shows a pro Erdogan sustention. However, after the recently Erdogan's alliance with Russia, they will derail.

LABERIA
18-08-16, 13:38
http://defence-blog.com/news/us-moves-nuclear-weapons-from-turkey-to-romania.html

US moves nuclear weapons from Turkey to Romania

Two independent sources told EurActiv.com that the US has started transferring nuclear weapons stationed in Turkey to Romania, against the background of worsening relations between Washington and Ankara .

According to one of the sources, the transfer has been very challenging in technical and political terms.

“It’s not easy to move 20+ nukes,” said the source, on conditions of anonymity.

According to a recent report by the Simson Center, since the Cold War, some 50 US tactical nuclear weapons have been stationed at Turkey’s Incirlik air base, approximately 100 kilometers from the Syrian border.

Virtue
18-08-16, 15:23
http://defence-blog.com/news/us-moves-nuclear-weapons-from-turkey-to-romania.html

US moves nuclear weapons from Turkey to Romania

Two independent sources told EurActiv.com that the US has started transferring nuclear weapons stationed in Turkey to Romania, against the background of worsening relations between Washington and Ankara .

According to one of the sources, the transfer has been very challenging in technical and political terms.

“It’s not easy to move 20+ nukes,” said the source, on conditions of anonymity.

According to a recent report by the Simson Center, since the Cold War, some 50 US tactical nuclear weapons have been stationed at Turkey’s Incirlik air base, approximately 100 kilometers from the Syrian border.I think this is a good move. Romanians seem like responsible people. Turks having nukes does not seem like a good idea to me at all. (knowing their disgusting history.)

Garrick
18-08-16, 17:55
Erdogan has a neo Ottoman agenda. Nothing surprising in it.

I explained in my previous post what was the intention of Erdogan during that visit in Tirana. He brought with him these turkish businessmans as a pressure against the albanian government. He offered economic investments, as a reward for the closure of the education institutions controlled by Fetulah Gulen. The response of government of Tirana was negative. They refused every Turkish demand for the closure of these schools. I responded about the mosque. As long as there is a Christian orthodox cathedral in center Tirana, and also a Catholic cathedral church , l don't see anything wrong if the Sunni don't have their own cathedral mosque in Tirana. Better paying for that mosque the Turks/Arabs than spending money the Albanian government.

Using the Erdogan's agenda of the neo ottomanism, against the Albanian state, it won't give profits.

Albania it's a multi religious country. Bektashi, Sunni, Orthodox, Catholic, etc. Any from these religions according to the constitution, have the right of using religious sites. Just to mention: The current Albanian prime minister of albania is democratically elected(Edi Rama) . He is a Catholic. Before being elected as prime minister, he was elected three mandates (eleven years) as the mayor of tirana 2000-2011. The current mayor of Tirana is a Christian protestant.

The most anti Erdogan turkish people, except the Kurds, are the turkish citizens of Albanian origin. The last arrest order is for the famous former turkish football player, and current turkish politician Hakan Shukur, whose is of Albanian origin.

Any serious fact shows that the Albanians of Albania, Greece, Kosova and Turkey are against Erdogan. The only Albanian population which shows a pro Erdogan sustention. However, after the recently Erdogan's alliance with Russia, they will derail.

It is from the top, it is imposed because politics, someone can think about taqiyya, but it doesn't matter.

What is deep it is in base, in culture, values, assumptions, norms, religious beliefs, tradition, unconscious (collective), etc.

And we can see that Albanians by far most like to watch Turkish series, cheer when Turks win in some sport, to wholeheartedly accept Turkish (although now and Arab, Iranian, even Pakistani etc.) missionaries, etc.

Piro Ilir
25-08-16, 13:54
It is from the top, it is imposed because politics, someone can think about taqiyya, but it doesn't matter.

What is deep it is in base, in culture, values, assumptions, norms, religious beliefs, tradition, unconscious (collective), etc.

And we can see that Albanians by far most like to watch Turkish series, cheer when Turks win in some sport, to wholeheartedly accept Turkish (although now and Arab, Iranian, even Pakistani etc.) missionaries, etc.
Albanians generally like football, and surely they cheer the wins of England, Italy ,Germany and Brazil. Never heard about your claim.

Albanian women see not only Turkish tv series, but also Brazilian series, Mexican, Colombian, Bolivian, Indian, etc.

The Albanian people according to the serious polls, are whether the most pro American and the most pro NATO people in south east Europe. Turkish generally have a negative view about USA. This tells a lot.

As for the missionaries that you mentioned, there are also many American protestant missionaries and from Italy, Germany etc either.

You should understand that it doesn't help bringing all the time, in every thread this anti Albanian stuff.

Piro Ilir
25-08-16, 13:57
Garric, do you have anything interesting about the topic of this thread, or you are stuck deeper only in Albanian stuff.

It seems amazing that your thoughts are always connected with the Albanian nation. ...

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Nik
25-08-16, 14:20
Garrick thinks he's talking to ignorant people who know nothing the world. U claim Albanians watch Turkish TV shows the most? Dude, I've been to Serbia and they're everywhere in ur national TV. Turkish celebrities are admired by many Serbs and I always see Serbian girls reposting in Instagram the videos of some "good-looking" Turkish guy singing in his car. Come out of ur little box and make a trip to Albania, it will help ur condition.

LABERIA
25-08-16, 15:01
It is from the top, it is imposed because politics, someone can think about taqiyya, but it doesn't matter.

What is deep it is in base, in culture, values, assumptions, norms, religious beliefs, tradition, unconscious (collective), etc.

And we can see that Albanians by far most like to watch Turkish series, cheer when Turks win in some sport, to wholeheartedly accept Turkish (although now and Arab, Iranian, even Pakistani etc.) missionaries, etc.

Serbia biggest movie star Zlata Numanagic decides to move permanently to Albania.
And i quote her exact words:
"Albanians are a people so attentive, hospitable and loving I have never seen elsewhere and believe me, I have travelled a lot around the world," says the Serbian actress"

http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=128871

This can be considered a knife behind your back from your compatriot, for you Garrick.

bicicleur
29-08-16, 14:05
a few hours after the failed coup Turkey acused Gülen movement
they would produce evidence the day after
uptill today not a single shred of evidence has been produced

https://nl.express.live/2016/08/29/beschuldigingen-tegen-gullen-bleken-vals/


“Turkey is conceding it has not sent any evidence to Washington linking Fethullah Gulen to the failed July 15 coup attempt, despite increasingly angry calls by Ankara for the United States to extradite the Pennsylvania-based cleric or suffer a severe downgrade in diplomatic relations.”
“In a statement to Foreign Policy, Turkish Embassy spokesman Naci Aydan Karamanoğlu said evidence linking Gulen to the coup ‘will be submitted in due time.’”

Piro Ilir
01-09-16, 14:39
a few hours after the failed coup Turkey acused Gülen movement
they would produce evidence the day after
uptill today not a single shred of evidence has been produced

https://nl.express.live/2016/08/29/beschuldigingen-tegen-gullen-bleken-vals/


“Turkey is conceding it has not sent any evidence to Washington linking Fethullah Gulen to the failed July 15 coup attempt, despite increasingly angry calls by Ankara for the United States to extradite the Pennsylvania-based cleric or suffer a severe downgrade in diplomatic relations.”
“In a statement to Foreign Policy, Turkish Embassy spokesman Naci Aydan Karamanoğlu said evidence linking Gulen to the coup ‘will be submitted in due time.’”



They don't have any serious evidence against Gulen, however, even if they have, they aren't gonna use it. Why? Because they need an excuse/alibi for their new relationship with Shanghai-p. USA won't extradite Gulen without serious evidences.

Piro Ilir
01-09-16, 14:42
Serbia biggest movie star Zlata Numanagic decides to move permanently to Albania.
And i quote her exact words:
"Albanians are a people so attentive, hospitable and loving I have never seen elsewhere and believe me, I have travelled a lot around the world," says the Serbian actress"

http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=128871

This can be considered a knife behind your back from your compatriot, for you Garrick.
Not all the Serbs are like Garric and certainly not all the Turkish are like Erdogan.