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VMRO1893
19-07-16, 08:51
German train attack: Afghan refugee 'had IS flag in room'


A hand-painted flag of so-called Islamic State has been found in the room of an Afghan refugee accused of carrying out an axe and knife attack on a southern German train, officials say.
The 17-year-old man injured four people from Hong Kong, three seriously, in the attack in Wurzburg on Monday evening. He was shot dead by police as he fled.
He had reportedly shouted Allahu akbar" ("God is great").
The attack comes days after a deadly IS-claimed attack in Nice in France.

Maleth
19-07-16, 10:58
It would be interesting to hear what his host family have to say about this hate full person. Probably he had Internet access to keep in touch with the joy of free flow of information of ALL kind, in the name of freedom of speech and human rights.

bicicleur
19-07-16, 13:54
It would be interesting to hear what his host family have to say about this hate full person. Probably he had Internet access to keep in touch with the joy of free flow of information of ALL kind, in the name of freedom of speech and human rights.

He was alone in a place where he shouldn't have been. He should have stayed in Afghanistan.
So he was vulnerable for propaganda.
But why ISIS?
I think it has to do with his religious upbringing which makes a distinction between Muslims and infidels
The infidels are allways to blaim.

I don't know whether this is correct.
But the same reasoning could be applied to the Tunisian with his truck in Nice.
He was lonely too.
But why fall for ISIS propaganda then?

Maybe further investigation will discover another cause.

bicicleur
19-07-16, 14:19
the train was yesterday
today a women and 3 daughters were attacked with a knife in a holliday resort in southern France 'because they were not properly dressed'
the attacker was a 37 year old male Morrocan
I hope the victims will survive
I wonder what tomorrow will bring

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/2799580/2016/07/19/Mesaanval-op-vrouw-en-dochters-in-Frans-dorp-om-luchtige-kleding.dhtml

It looks like these people were raised in their youth with despise over 'infidels'.
I can't figure another explanation.

Maleth
19-07-16, 16:49
the train was yesterday
today a women and 3 daughters were attacked with a knife in a holliday resort in southern France 'because they were not properly dressed'
the attacker was a 37 year old male Morrocan
I hope the victims will survive
I wonder what tomorrow will bring

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/2799580/2016/07/19/Mesaanval-op-vrouw-en-dochters-in-Frans-dorp-om-luchtige-kleding.dhtml

It looks like these people were raised in their youth with despise over 'infidels'.
I can't figure another explanation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/16/pakistani-social-media-star-murdered-by-her-brother-in-apparent/

Angela
19-07-16, 17:14
See:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3675994/Islamic-State-tightens-grip-women-held-sex-slaves.html

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3675994/Islamic-State-tightens-grip-women-held-sex-slaves.htmlhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yazidi-woman-isis-sex-slave-islamic-state-jihadist-a6930251.htmlWhen)http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yazidi-woman-isis-sex-slave-islamic-state-jihadist-a6930251.html

When I read these things I have the same reaction as I did when I first saw the movie "Osama". Those filthy, disgusting, vile perverts make my blood boil, and the old ones are the worst.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_(film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_(film)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sKYNvd3CYThe)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sKYNvd3CY

The whole movie with English subtitles is available on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpFJJd3ZNPo

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpFJJd3ZNPoJust)

bicicleur
19-07-16, 17:33
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/16/pakistani-social-media-star-murdered-by-her-brother-in-apparent/

horrible and despicable

but what has that murder to do with these attacks ?

this man attacks random people he even doesn't know
the motive is not the same

bicicleur
19-07-16, 17:36
See:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3675994/Islamic-State-tightens-grip-women-held-sex-slaves.html

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3675994/Islamic-State-tightens-grip-women-held-sex-slaves.htmlhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yazidi-woman-isis-sex-slave-islamic-state-jihadist-a6930251.htmlWhen)http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yazidi-woman-isis-sex-slave-islamic-state-jihadist-a6930251.html

When I read these things I have the same reaction as I did when I first saw the movie "Osama". Those filthy, disgusting, vile perverts make my blood boil, and the old ones are the worst.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_(film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_(film)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sKYNvd3CYThe)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sKYNvd3CY

The whole movie with English subtitles is available on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpFJJd3ZNPo

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpFJJd3ZNPoJust)

it is worse than the darkest middle ages

bicicleur
19-07-16, 17:41
the train was yesterday
today a women and 3 daughters were attacked with a knife in a holliday resort in southern France 'because they were not properly dressed'
the attacker was a 37 year old male Morrocan
I hope the victims will survive
I wonder what tomorrow will bring

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/2799580/2016/07/19/Mesaanval-op-vrouw-en-dochters-in-Frans-dorp-om-luchtige-kleding.dhtml

It looks like these people were raised in their youth with despise over 'infidels'.
I can't figure another explanation.

and the indoctrination will go on ..

I just read Erdogan is not only replacing the army generals, the judges and the police,
he's also sacking 15.200 teachers

VMRO1893
20-07-16, 01:46
and the indoctrination will go on ..

I just read Erdogan is not only replacing the army generals, the judges and the police,
he's also sacking 15.200 teachers

Islamization is being fast-tracked it seems...this will be a bigger menace than anything we've seen to date.

LeBrok
20-07-16, 03:03
it is worse than the darkest middle agesDoes it make you feel much better to say stupid thing like this?!!! Does it make Muslims worse that Christians of Middle Ages, in your eyes?!!! It must be just in your eyes, because we don't need to go to Dark Ages to find worse in Europeans. Feel free to revisit exploits of German Army in the East or deeds to Jews in WW2, or Exploits of Soviets over own people and others. Should we mention brothels full of Bosniak girls for enjoyment of Serbian officers, just 20 years ago? Yeh, that's right, it was just within last 70 years. People who went through this hell in Europe are still alive. Congratulation on your amnizia.


As for the thread. Another Muslim psychopath falling in love with IS preaching. Did he attack Hong Kong tourists in the train? So many German Christians in the train and he kills Chinese. Real cuckoo.

arvistro
20-07-16, 10:44
Does it make you feel much better to say stupid thing like this?!!! Does it make Muslims worse that Christians of Middle Ages, in your eyes?!!! It must be just in your eyes, because we don't need to go to Dark Ages to find worse in Europeans. Feel free to revisit exploits of German Army in the East or deeds to Jews in WW2, or Exploits of Soviets over own people and others. Should we mention brothels full of Bosniak girls for enjoyment of Serbian officers, just 20 years ago? Yeh, that's right, it was just within last 70 years. People who went through this hell in Europe are still alive. Congratulation on your amnizia.


As for the thread. Another Muslim psychopath falling in love with IS preaching. Did he attack Hong Kong tourists in the train? So many German Christians in the train and he kills Chinese. Real cuckoo.
Yeah, perhaps it is too early to talk about these issues. We need to wait for million deaths and about 2 million of rapes before we get too excited about radical Islam.
Also we should specify that only Christian lives matter in this counting task, other non-Islamic folk victims (did he attack Hong Kong tourists?) should not be counted because of reasons.

Did I get the message right?

bicicleur
20-07-16, 11:39
Does it make you feel much better to say stupid thing like this?!!! Does it make Muslims worse that Christians of Middle Ages, in your eyes?!!! It must be just in your eyes, because we don't need to go to Dark Ages to find worse in Europeans. Feel free to revisit exploits of German Army in the East or deeds to Jews in WW2, or Exploits of Soviets over own people and others. Should we mention brothels full of Bosniak girls for enjoyment of Serbian officers, just 20 years ago? Yeh, that's right, it was just within last 70 years. People who went through this hell in Europe are still alive. Congratulation on your amnizia.


As for the thread. Another Muslim psychopath falling in love with IS preaching. Did he attack Hong Kong tourists in the train? So many German Christians in the train and he kills Chinese. Real cuckoo.

I'm sure you would have gone for the Christians.
There is not a day you can abstain from Christian bashing, blowing everything out of proportion. You are realy obsessed.
These people must have done terrible things to you.

As for the IS connection, IS has posted a video of the attacker waving with a knife promising to kill as many 'infidels' as possible.

These people are raised in their youth with despise over 'infidels'.
Being 'infidel' is the only crime to justify the killings.
That is why you go stabbing people on the train.
That is why you drive a truck over the Boulevard des Anglais.

LeBrok
20-07-16, 15:41
Yeah, perhaps it is too early to talk about these issues. We need to wait for million deaths and about 2 million of rapes before we get too excited about radical Islam.
Also we should specify that only Christian lives matter in this counting task, other non-Islamic folk victims (did he attack Hong Kong tourists?) should not be counted because of reasons.

Did I get the message right?Completely wrong. I believe, you get it the one you want to get.
Do you believe there are moderate muslims who need our support against their struggle with fundamentalists?

LeBrok
20-07-16, 16:15
I'm sure you would have gone for the Christians.
There is not a day you can abstain from Christian bashing, blowing everything out of proportion. You are realy obsessed.
These people must have done terrible things to you.
Blowing out of proportion?! Is your amnesia acting up again? You just said this:

it is worse than the darkest middle ages
The proportion is: Whatever IS did to others, Europeans did this to others and themselves hundred fold more in last 100 years. This is the truth and proportion that you are conveniently avoiding, just to feel superior to every Muslim. Give me an example of IS cruelty and I will give you 100 examples from Europe of last 100 years!

And in case you got blind (conveniently) again, look at my Muslim bashing:


Another Muslim psychopath falling in love with IS preaching Look long at it and try memorizing, so we don't have same conversation again and again.

Just pay attention that I bash all religions equally when they deserve. I don't bash like you or gymn all believers of one religion, or defend all believers of my religion. This is a fundamental difference between me and you. I can see good and bad in all the people, unlike you who can't see the world through ethnic or religious divide, and black and white spectrum. The only "good Muslim is a dead Muslim" for you, right?





As for the IS connection, IS has posted a video of the attacker waving with a knife promising to kill as many 'infidels' as possible. And who is denying this? Are you arguing with someone or talking to yourself?




These people are raised in their youth with despise over 'infidels'.
Being 'infidel' is the only crime to justify the killings.
That is why you go stabbing people on the train.
That is why you drive a truck over the Boulevard des Anglais.

Also we should specify that only Christian lives matter in this counting task, other non-Islamic folk victims (did he attack Hong Kong tourists?)

In case you guys are slow today and missed all the nuances of this dramatic situation, here is explanation why it feels a bit weird. To have a maximum impact on local population, which are white christian Germans, you kill the local and not foreign tourists. Right? To increase "anti-immigrant" sentiment and Christian conservatism in the country, you as an immigrant should kill the local voters, but not Asian tourist. Right?

However, his action is consistent with IS philosophy of destroying tourist economy. We've seen it in attacks in Egypt, Tunisia and recently in France, affecting a budgets of these countries greatly. This is exactly what this lone wolf was trying to copy. This is what you guys missed in your posts. "Unfortunately" for him he missed a fact, that Germany is not a tourist economy like these other countries, and the impact of his action will be minimal for Germans' wallet. Much bigger impact on Germans and good Muslim immigrants escaping IS and looking for safe life in Europe, would be to kill native Germans. And that's why it seems a bit illogical what he did in the train. I hope it is clear now.

arvistro
20-07-16, 16:48
Completely wrong. I believe, you get it the one you want to get.
Do you believe there are moderate muslims who need our support against their struggle with fundamentalists?
Perhaps I overreacted because saying It is worse than middle ages is ok reaction to religious fanatic doing things in light of frequency of such incidents lately.
It is of course not literally worse than middle ages, but did not deserve the response you made which felt as if those acts are ok when looked in prespective against more horrible acts of the past. Because they are not OK, and those who openly or silently support them are also not OK.

Angela
20-07-16, 17:17
Guys, what ISIS is preaching and doing is horrific, just as what men in the Balkans did twenty-five years ago is horrific, and what the Germans did in the 30's and 40's was even more horrific. I go to memorial services for victims of atrocities every year, and did what I could to push for even the doddering old men still left to be brought to justice. I don't believe in letting anybody off the hook. I'd pursue them to the gates of hell if I could. If I were a young man, I'd be equally happy to take on all of them.

The thing is, though, that the only ones currently doing this in Europe are Isis indoctrinated people. That doesn't mean that all Middle Easterners should be lumped into that category. I think we have to be careful not to give the impression that anyone is giving Europeans a pass, but not Near Easterners.

Voyager
20-07-16, 18:06
You want to laugh, let 's look to this muslim imam giving a muslim physic course and explaining why Earth doesn't rotate at all because their coran says so. But when you think about that, these people learn absolutly nothing since medieval times.
Here your ticket to happy Middle Ages :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVv89zgTQMc :petrified: help! hepl! Galileo

Angela
20-07-16, 18:47
You want to laugh, let 's look to this muslim imam giving a muslim physic course and explaining why Earth doesn't rotate at all because their coran says so. But when you think about that, these people learn absolutly nothing since medieval times.
Here your ticket to happy Middle Ages :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVv89zgTQMc :petrified:

Yes, well, very Conservative Evangelical Protestants deny evolution and insist the earth was only created 6000 years ago. Shall we have a contest as to which is more absurd? It isn't at all helpful, in my opinion, to distort reality by only presenting the idiocies of one part of the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_9c0-hbmIA

I couldn't waste time on him, so I don't know if he addresses the geological evidence, fossil evidence etc. I was taught in Catholic high school theology classes that there is no incompatibility between evolution and the Bible, or faith in God. Different traditions, get it?

Maleth
20-07-16, 19:14
but what has that murder to do with these attacks ?

this man attacks random people he even doesn't know
the motive is not the same

Just to get an idea from which kind of cultures these people come from and even more important as Angela and Lebrok stated there are also Muslims (or coming from a Muslim background) that are suffering from this kind of behavior (as you could well see in the link). I never thought I needed to explain that....but.....

Voyager
20-07-16, 19:53
Yes, well, very Conservative Evangelical Protestants deny evolution and insist the earth was only created 6000 years ago. Shall we have a contest as to which is more absurd? It isn't at all helpful, in my opinion, to distort reality by only presenting the idiocies of one part of the world.



Sorry but it is neither helpfull to not point out any of these Dark Age idiocies , in my opinion. And this is one is realy enormous.:cool-v:Do you know there is a controversy on Earth flatness among intellectuals of muslim world always because , big problem, the Coran says that Earth is flat as a carpet. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/great.gif The Greeks like Erasthotene measured the radius of the Earth in ... 3th century BC! Comprared to that , to be honest the Darwinism controversy looks ahead, rather bright and certainly more informative.

Angela
20-07-16, 20:04
Sorry but it is neither helpfull to not point out any idiocies at all, in my opinion. And this is one is realy enormous.:cool-v:

I haven't failed to point out the problems facing Europe, or what I think of ISIS or any other kind of Islamic extremist terrorism, as you'd know if you had read my posts.

Too often, though, people who are concerned about these matters take a "holier than thou" approach which sometimes seems to verge into implying that these people are innately evil, or brutal, or stupid, which is not the truth. I'm not necessarily speaking of you, because I don't know you at all.

It also risks presenting an inaccurate world view to the many, it seems, rather under-educated young men who frequent "population genetics sites". Were the Milice choir boys, or Italian Fascisti for that matter? Is what ISIS is doing to Yezidi women worse than what Serb military groups did to Muslim women in the Balkans? Let's not even get into the Nazis. The only major difference, from what I can see, between the Nazis and ISIS in terms of brutality is that the Germans were good at mechanizing the slaughter of innocents.

So, while you have a perfect right to point out the idiocy of this iman's teachings, I have a perfect right to point out that beliefs like this are not the sole domain of Muslims.

bicicleur
20-07-16, 20:28
Blowing out of proportion?! Is your amnesia acting up again? You just said this:

The proportion is: Whatever IS did to others, Europeans did this to others and themselves hundred fold more in last 100 years. This is the truth and proportion that you are conveniently avoiding, just to feel superior to every Muslim. Give me an example of IS cruelty and I will give you 100 examples from Europe of last 100 years!

And in case you got blind (conveniently) again, look at my Muslim bashing:

Look long at it and try memorizing, so we don't have same conversation again and again.

Just pay attention that I bash all religions equally when they deserve. I don't bash like you or gymn all believers of one religion, or defend all believers of my religion. This is a fundamental difference between me and you. I can see good and bad in all the people, unlike you who can't see the world through ethnic or religious divide, and black and white spectrum. The only "good Muslim is a dead Muslim" for you, right?


And who is denying this? Are you arguing with someone or talking to yourself?





In case you guys are slow today and missed all the nuances of this dramatic situation, here is explanation why it feels a bit weird. To have a maximum impact on local population, which are white christian Germans, you kill the local and not foreign tourists. Right? To increase "anti-immigrant" sentiment and Christian conservatism in the country, you as an immigrant should kill the local voters, but not Asian tourist. Right?

However, his action is consistent with IS philosophy of destroying tourist economy. We've seen it in attacks in Egypt, Tunisia and recently in France, affecting a budgets of these countries greatly. This is exactly what this lone wolf was trying to copy. This is what you guys missed in your posts. "Unfortunately" for him he missed a fact, that Germany is not a tourist economy like these other countries, and the impact of his action will be minimal for Germans' wallet. Much bigger impact on Germans and good Muslim immigrants escaping IS and looking for safe life in Europe, would be to kill native Germans. And that's why it seems a bit illogical what he did in the train. I hope it is clear now.

I try to figure out what point you tried to make here.


Mind you that Roman Empire collapsed in 100 years after Christianity became State Religion.


could you elaborate?

bicicleur
20-07-16, 20:36
Just to get an idea from which kind of cultures these people come from and even more important as Angela and Lebrok stated there are also Muslims (or coming from a Muslim background) that are suffering from this kind of behavior (as you could well see in the link). I never thought I needed to explain that....but.....

yes, and I was telling that not only the culture from where they came played a role, but also the religious education they got in their youth
this Afghan attacker wasn't out to defend the honour of his family, he was out to kill as many 'infidels' as possible

and yes, shi'a muslims count sunni as 'infidels' and vice versa
and fundamentalist muslims consider muslims who are to tolerant versus non-muslims as infidels too

I didn't think I had to explain you again

Maleth
20-07-16, 20:38
Sorry but it is neither helpfull to not point out any of these Dark Age idiocies , in my opinion. And this is one is realy enormous.:cool-v:Do you know there is a controversy on Earth flatness among intellectuals of muslim world always because of the Coran. Yes! Yes! they do!http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/great.gif The Greeks like Erasthotene measured the radius of the Earth in ... 3th century BC! Comprared to that , the Darwinism controversy looks rather bright and certainly more informative.

dont be too shocked Voyager. quote:- I defend the position that the bible is literally true and scientifically acurate, the earth is not Millions of years old. god made it all in six days, about 6000 years ago, just like he said, it was all destroyed in a big flood in the days of Noah, and Thats were the fossils come from - end quote http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/great.gif apparantly Jehova witnesses believe exactly the same thing :startled: :grin:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnydfiKcOII

davef
20-07-16, 20:39
The people who teach the 6000 year old earth concept aren't any better. They are going by a religious text just like the cleric.

Maleth
20-07-16, 20:41
yes, and I was telling that not only the culture from where they came played a role, but also the religious education they got in their youth
this Afghan attacker wasn't out to defend the honour of his family, he was out to kill as many 'infidels' as possible

and yes, shi'a muslims count sunni as 'infidels' and vice versa
and fundamentalist muslims consider muslims who are to tolerant versus non-muslims as infidels too

I didn't think I had to explain you again

ah yes yes they really have nothing to do with each other....so bad i jumped into such an irrelevant subject..........

Wanderlust
20-07-16, 20:47
Does it make you feel much better to say stupid thing like this?!!!

The more I consume, digest and process studies that show that there is a correlation between genes and one's disposition towards a conservative or liberal worldview, the less inclined I am to argue with some of these people because they almost quite literally can't help themselves and it just becomes an exercise in futility--that being said, on a public forum where they may be those who are impressionable and/or uninformed listening in and paying attention, certain ideas should always be confronted and argued.

We know that on an individual basis, genes may factor more in some people's way of being than it does in others (environment can be a powerful mitigator, but not always), and I believe that those who possess the most extreme (and oftentimes stubbornly fixed and irrational) worldviews, are led by genetic drives--and this is true for those on the extreme right and the extreme left. An extreme of any form lacks balance by definition. I try to think of how these seemingly primitive, complexity/nuance lacking drives would've served humanity in its early stages: There had to be those who lacked fear in an "extreme" way in order to throw themselves eagerly and selflessly in front of Sabretooth tigers and Wooly mammoths, whether for hunting or in defense; there also had to be those who preserved the safety and integrity of the group by way of an "extreme" aversion to opportunistic, warlike outsiders with their foreign and potentially dangerous pathogens. I tend to believe that these genetic drives and impulses live on in us--the problem is that in their extreme manifestations, they can be incongruent or incompatible with a modern world that is full of an ever growing complexity and nuance and requires equally complex and nuanced solutions.

Extreme leftists can be so open, flighty and fearless (read: wreckless) that they don't consider the ramifications of unfettered and indiscriminate immigration policies within the confines of a complex social and economic structure. And the extreme right wing can be so closed off, resistant to change and fear drenched that they don't see the ramifications of exclusionist, xenophobic immigration policies within the confines of a complex social and financial structure. :useless:

I guess my point is that unfortunately and frustratingly, the extremists tend to be genetically invulnerable to reason, but it's certainly fun to watch you try. lol

LABERIA
20-07-16, 20:53
Sorry but it is neither helpfull to not point out any of these Dark Age idiocies , in my opinion. And this is one is realy enormous.:cool-v:Do you know there is a controversy on Earth flatness among intellectuals of muslim world always because of the Coran. Yes! Yes! they do!http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/great.gif The Greeks like Erasthotene measured the radius of the Earth in ... 3th century BC! Comprared to that , the Darwinism controversy looks rather bright and certainly more informative.

What's your point here? Is this video an example of what Arabs and muslims learn in their schools? If this problem persist, we need to open a new thread and discuss about this. If this video is the example of an idiot, tbh i don't understand why you posted here. The world is full with idiots. Four years ago there were people convinced that the year 2012 was the end of the world.
It's true that Erasthotene measured the radius of the Earth. But in the human history there are examples of people who died in prison or were burned alive only because they said, e pur si muove.
Let's try to make a serious discussion.

Voyager
20-07-16, 21:17
So, while you have a perfect right to point out the idiocy of this iman's teachings, I have a perfect right to point out that beliefs like this are not the sole domain of Muslims.
Well apparently this imam try to justify his belief in Islam.
The problem is not us. I believe we are enough " over educated"http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/bigsmile.gif. I suppose you are living in America , I am living in France and I have the feeling you have no idea of the problem teachers, doctors etc face here. The problem of compatibility betweem our way of life and their rigid beliefs is overwhelming. Hospitals, School, Justice all of our society components are touched.

Wanderlust
20-07-16, 22:20
Well apparently this imam try to justify his belief in Islam.
The problem is not us. I believe we are enough " over educated"http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/bigsmile.gif. I suppose you are living in America , I am living in France and I have the feeling you have no idea of the problem teachers, doctors etc face here. The problem of compatibility betweem our way of life and their rigid beliefs is overwhelming. Hospitals, School, Justice all of our society components are touched.

Sorry but France is the mother of Western Leftism run amok (which, in its most extreme, looks an awful lot like Stalinism). France does not try to integrate but assimilate. They want to completely remove any aspect of a foreigner's identity that is non-French in origin, which to some, understandably registers as another form of oppression. It's rooted in the misguided belief that "if we are all the same (in culture, values and beliefs), then there is no room for incompatibility" and that's a flawed worldview.

To reiterate: assimilation by way of erasing the individual to become a part of the whole is considered to be the grounds for social acceptance by extreme leftists/socialists because the idea is that everything becomes fair and equal if we are all essentially the same. In theory, that may seem plausible but it falls apart terribly in its execution--France exemplifies this. People are innately prone to xenophobia and bigotry, some more than others. In every society, there will always be those who are resistant to difference and like to feel better, superior and wield more privilege over others and so there are bound to be societal injustices. But the "we are all one," "diminish our differences" philosophy allows for injustices to go unchecked and the cries of those who are most vulnerable to go unheard or silenced because they're rebuffed with "it's in your mind" because "we are all one and united in France" when that's just not the lived and experienced truth.

Moreover, those who don't want to "lose" their cultural traits by way of assimilation are shamed and ignored because then the rationale becomes, "they make themselves a target because they refuse to change," which doesn't take into account the fact that there are those who won't like them or treat them fairly no matter how much they conform.

Lastly, a lot of the people of foreign origin in France come from places and peoples that were once brutalized by French imperialism and colonialism. Let's not act like there is no basis for some of their resentment and resistance to losing the ethnic/religious identities that were forcibly stripped from them in the first place. In my opinion, the chickens have come home to roost for France and it is the height of entitlement to then revictimize the people they victimized for centuries. This doesn't mean that I agree with abhorrent acts of terrorism, or that I'm justifying it. I'm just saying that at the very least, I understand the complex reasons for why it's happening. I'm not even a Frenchman and yet I get that. :wink:

Angela
20-07-16, 22:28
Well apparently this imam try to justify his belief in Islam.
The problem is not us. I believe we are enough " over educated"http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/bigsmile.gif. I suppose you are living in America , I am living in France and I have the feeling you have no idea of the problem teachers, doctors etc face here. The problem of compatibility betweem our way of life and their rigid beliefs is overwhelming. Hospitals, School, Justice all of our society components are touched.

You're right, Voyager, in that I don't have the day to day experience that the French have, or even my own Italians, to a perhaps lesser scale, but I see enough when I'm there twice a year, and read enough about it to be very concerned. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm not.

I just don't think that the fact that Muslim clerics are anti-science is really the issue, because a lot of Christian clerics are pretty anti-science too.

The problem is the more general one, I think, that the value systems of many of these immigrants are just too different from those of the host countries for there not to be conflict. I'm with you there.

LeBrok
21-07-16, 04:38
I try to figure out what point you tried to make here.
Exactly the same as for last couple of years. Some people get it some don't. If you don't get it, you don't get it. Blame your genetics or education system. Perhaps you should stop debating and start listening only?


could you elaborate? No. You are not going to get it.

LeBrok
21-07-16, 04:43
Sorry but it is neither helpfull to not point out any of these Dark Age idiocies , in my opinion. And this is one is realy enormous.:cool-v:Do you know there is a controversy on Earth flatness among intellectuals of muslim world always because , big problem, the Coran says that Earth is flat as a carpet. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/great.gif The Greeks like Erasthotene measured the radius of the Earth in ... 3th century BC! Comprared to that , to be honest the Darwinism controversy looks ahead, rather bright and certainly more informative.I'm not sure if I understood your point right in the last sentence. Are you saying that you don't understand natural selection, but you laugh at others, who don't get that the earth is round or billions of years old?

LeBrok
21-07-16, 05:02
The more I consume, digest and process studies that show that there is a correlation between genes and one's disposition towards a conservative or liberal worldview, the less inclined I am to argue with some of these people because they almost quite literally can't help themselves and it just becomes an exercise in futility--that being said, on a public forum where they may be those who are impressionable and/or uninformed listening in and paying attention, certain ideas should always be confronted and argued. I came to same conclusions.


There had to be those who lacked fear in an "extreme" way in order to throw themselves eagerly and selflessly in front of Sabretooth tigers and Wooly mammoths, whether for hunting or in defenseThis, and some brave who dared to leave homelands in face of coming Ice Age or desertification survived.


; there also had to be those who preserved the safety and integrity of the group by way of an "extreme" aversion to opportunistic, warlike outsiders with their foreign and potentially dangerous pathogens. I tend to believe that these genetic drives and impulses live on in us--the problem is that in their extreme manifestations, they can be incongruent or incompatible with a modern world that is full of an ever growing complexity and nuance and requires equally complex and nuanced solutions. Exactly. We are not genetically predispose to do well and make smart choices in modern world, world of fast changes, new occupations and technologies. That's why so few of us can say what they want to become or to do in life. Well, beside having fun, playing games, dancing, singing, having sex, falling in love and having kids. Typical hunter gatherer stuff.


Extreme leftists can be so open, flighty and fearless (read: wreckless) that they don't consider the ramifications of unfettered and indiscriminate immigration policies within the confines of a complex social and economic structure. And the extreme right wing can be so closed off, resistant to change and fear drenched that they don't see the ramifications of exclusionist, xenophobic immigration policies within the confines of a complex social and financial structure. :useless: That's the reason the moderate and reasonable Center usually wins in elections, however this crazy world these days pushed the left and right extremism into being leading forces.

Tomenable
21-07-16, 06:53
it is worse than the darkest middle ages

Please stop insulting the founders of the principles of gender equality that we call feminism.

(watch the snippet from 2:43 to 2:50):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf_mNiMKNlE#t=2m43s (http://historum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3F v%3Dqf_mNiMKNlE%23t%3D2m43s)



The more I consume, digest and process studies that show that there is a correlation between genes and one's disposition towards a conservative or liberal worldview, the less inclined I am to argue with some of these people because they almost quite literally can't help themselves and it just becomes an exercise in futility (...)

Hmmm...

What is a good solution to this shortage of people with "liberal genes" in the European Union ??? Let me think...

I know! Let's import millions of immigrants from some of the most zealously conservative societies on Earth.

That should help. Definitely.

Voyager
21-07-16, 08:58
dont be too shocked Voyager. quote:- I defend the position that the bible is literally true and scientifically acurate, the earth is not Millions of years old. god made it all in six days, about 6000 years ago, just like he said, it was all destroyed in a big flood in the days of Noah, and Thats were the fossils come from - end quote http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/great.gif apparantly Jehova witnesses believe exactly the same thing :startled: :grin:

Well so far, I am very very shocked not by evangelists, not by jehovah witnesses but only by muslims who slaughtered in the name of their own religion innocent french peoples or beheaded with a knife a french tourist reading coran sourates and so on.
Please, understand why I am polarized as a french by particular idiocies of these particular peoples.
Anybody can believe whatever they like it 's their right only if this doesn't kill us.
(for information, "to kill" appear more than 400 times in coran...)

Maleth
21-07-16, 09:21
Well so far, I am very very shocked not by evangelists, not by jehovah witnesses but only by muslims who slaughtered in the name of their own religion innocent french peoples, one by one, or decapited a french tourist along reading coran sourates and so on and so on.
Please, understand why I am polarized as a french by particular idiocies of these particular peoples.
Anybody can believe whatever they like it 's their right only if this doesn't kill us.
(for information, "to kill" appear more than 400 times in coran...)

I can imagine, but my comment (and probably others) are directed towards the anti science link in the name of religion you have posted. I HOPE we are allowed to compare. As to the slaying of innocent people its barbaric and no words can describe really. Its always felt hardest and deepest when its close to home. France is not the only one. Turkey, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Syria (the most), Iraq, USA, Pakistan to mention a few had also hundreds of slained innocent people. Not that is any consolation. As you can see many are Muslim countries and even if their suffering is not given an degree of publicity my heart goes out for them too.

There are many threads that deal with Islam and the Quran on this site such as this

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24264-Does-the-Qur-an-encourages-peace-and-tolerance-toward-non-Muslims?highlight=Quran

you can always give your contribution on the subject.

Voyager
21-07-16, 10:05
To reiterate: assimilation by way of erasing the individual to become a part of the whole is considered to be the grounds for social acceptance by extreme leftists/socialists because the idea is that everything becomes fair and equal if we are all essentially the same. In theory, that may seem plausible but it falls apart terribly in its execution--France exemplifies this. People are innately prone to xenophobia and bigotry, some more than others. In every society, there will always be those who are resistant to difference and like to feel better, superior and wield more privilege over others and so there are bound to be societal injustices. But the "we are all one," "diminish our differences" philosophy allows for injustices to go unchecked and the cries of those who are most vulnerable to go unheard or silenced because they're rebuffed with "it's in your mind" because "we are all one and united in France" when that's just not the lived and experienced truth.

Moreover, those who don't want to "lose" their cultural traits by way of assimilation are shamed and ignored because then the rationale becomes, "they make themselves a target because they refuse to change," which doesn't take into account the fact that there are those who won't like them or treat them fairly no matter how much they conform.

I think your approach is too theoritical. It's true that Politics principle is equality etc... but realy , most of the migrants cope with that, many european migrants came from Poland, Portugual, Spain, Italy , Eastern Europe all of these migrants brought a lot to France and their descent are perfectly integrated , each with their own identity, and they didn't generate any integration problems, not as big as we have with the new waves from Africa, why? Here is the key question. Why is it working fine with some and not with others?


Lastly, a lot of the people of foreign origin in France come from places and peoples that were once brutalized by French imperialism and colonialism.
I heard different stories on colonialism. Of course it 's not easy to judge a 19th cent. society with 21st cent. eyes. Brutality and misery were everywhere, the french state was also brutal with french peoples, Justice sent you convict years to Cayenne for just robbering a piece of bread also true in UK.We All know the Miserable of Victor Hugo. Using such argument it's victimization methods. In other hands a lot of effort done by the french to settle these land must not be ignored, a lot of french colon waves, usualy unemployed miserable peoples, were sent wave after wave decimated by malaria to settle these lands in Algeria infested by mosquitoes at the begining of Colonization. Finaly , Algeria was a major european wheat provider during 19th cent. Nowadays, Algeria depends on wheat importation from Europe. The better proof I think, ask yourself if the french colonization was a so terrible experience why so many people from our ex colonies wished to come in France? It must be masochism.
But I agree colonization was a big mistake, too much investment for too many troubles.

Wanderlust
21-07-16, 12:17
Hmmm...

What is a good solution to this shortage of people with "liberal genes" in the European Union ??? Let me think...

Well it would certainly be hard to find them in much of Eastern Europe. :laughing: What is so irritating about your worldview is that you believe that you are somehow an exception to your own rule when you are the very definition of what you despise most in fundamentalist Muslims. If the European Union wants to oust people from "zealously" conservative societies, like ones that hold the largest far right nationalist march in Europe (ahem *POLAND* ahem), or ones where the far right political leaders are controlling the media and manipulating the courts in order to support their pseudo-fascist, Eurosceptic agenda (ahem *POLAND* ahem), then they would start by getting rid of you.

It's amazing that you paint Muslims as dangerous, violent, out of touch barbarians and yet the far right within your own society, that you support, behaves no better. Why should the European Union have to tolerate any of you? If you don't want to share the European Union's burdens, which includes immigration from the most problematic places on Earth, remove yourself. And then let's see how you fare.
https://youtu.be/PnC-zSdMSRo

[email protected] the 3:23 mark where it shows that some of the nationalists who fear being overrun by brown Muslim hordes are using rap music to spread their message. Am I to conclude that they would be more sympathetic to African-American immigrants? LOL Evidently, "the police" do not regard your group or theirs with much sympathy. Is that where the bond lies?

Seriously, I watched that video and at times, it appears to me that I'm looking at a lower-class immigrant suburb in Sweden but really, they are young white nationalists in Poland, who also seem to be disaffected and feel disenfranchised and kept out of economic progress. Hmmmmm...sounds familiar. But I'm guessing not to you. :useless:

At the 8:40 mark, you see how the Catholic Church, "the heart of Poland," lends support to these often violent ultra-nationalist groups. Hmmm....sounds kind of like an Imam giving their support to jihadists. And I'm sure you still don't see the parallels. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/useless.gif

gyms
21-07-16, 12:43
http://www.do.se/contentassets/5ad9f5ea04bf4aedb943cf84e1562240/rapport-discrimination-sami.pdf

Historical background

Historian Leonard Lundmark says that Sweden’s, or more properly the
Crown’s, early dealings with the Sami are closely linked to the conquest
of Norrland in the 14th century when colonisation began in earnest. It was
during the 14th and 15th centuries that the Crown began to levy taxes on
the Sami.40 Lundmark also points out that in the 16th century the State’s
Sami policy was characterised by an increased interest in the riches of the
Lappmark (Samiland).

This levy was increased still further during the 17th century and the
State strengthened its control of the Sami and the Lappmark in other
ways as well.42 In the 1630s the State “discovered” the first silver deposit
in Nasafjäll, northwest of Arjeplog. Lundmark describes how Sami
were forcibly recruited to transport the ore to Piteå since reindeer were
indispensable to its transportation. Since the wages paid were not sufficient
to live on, the Sami found themselves facing a crisis. Some were forced to
turn to begging, others fled to Norway or further north in Sweden.

Sami that owned reindeer were forced to enlarge their herds to be able to
survive under the heavy tax burden.43
In the latter half of the 17th century the State began to colonise Sami land
more actively. Lundmark describes how the State tried to attract settlers
from the south and the coast by introducing a 15-year exemption from
taxes. However, because of the wars this tax exemption did not have the
desired effect.

In the mid-1800s the Swedish anthropologist Anders Retzius developed a
method for measuring craniums in order to classify people into different
categories. Both authorities and researchers conducted skull measurements
on a large scale. Researchers not only measured living Sami, but also
dug up and plundered Sami graves.48 Sami remains and artefacts from
this period can still be found in various Swedish State collections.49 Race
biology was popular in Sweden and in 1920 a unanimous Parliament
decided to establish the world’s first state institute for race biology in
Uppsala.50

bicicleur
21-07-16, 12:51
Exactly the same as for last couple of years. Some people get it some don't. If you don't get it, you don't get it. Blame your genetics or education system. Perhaps you should stop debating and start listening only?

No. You are not going to get it.

well done LeBrok.

I can tell you, nobody here got it.
It just proves you're obsessed.

gyms
21-07-16, 13:10
http://www.politico.eu/article/sami-reconciliation-process-sweden-minority-multiculturalism-human-rights-discrimination/

The Sami people are lobbying the Swedish government for a truth and reconciliation process to address human rights violations against them — historical and ongoing — against the background of a debate about how the country should behave toward its newest arrivals.
Representatives of the indigenous group point to forced sterilization, preservation of Sami human remains at government research facilities and the so-called “cultural genocide” that all but eliminated them from the official history of their country.

“There was historical violence, murder and discrimination against the Sami that was so painful people have been generationally unwilling to speak out, partly through fear,” said India Reed-Bowers, a legal adviser to the Sami parliament, which monitors issues of Sami culture (https://www.sametinget.se/9688) in Sweden. “This is why a truth and reconciliation process is necessary.”

bicicleur
21-07-16, 13:11
At the 8:40 mark, you see how the Catholic Church, "the heart of Poland," lends support to these often violent ultra-nationalist groups. Hmmm....sounds kind of like an Imam giving their support to jihadists. And I'm sure you still don't see the parallels. http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/useless.gif

should we now expect Polish suicide bombers in Brussels too?

gyms
21-07-16, 13:23
http://www.economicnoise.com/2015/08/06/moralizing-of-the-left/

Moralizing of the Left is convenient, selective and utilitarian. It is not based on logic. Nor is it based on true inequities, at least not in the manner that the proposed solutions can cure. It is always based on the pursuit of political power.
The moralizing is self-serving and generally abusive to those it pretends to help. Both the claims and solutions disregard logic which demeans those who enlist in the cause. The damage done to supporters or the cause it purports to promote is irrelevant so long as power can be achieved.

The process is simple and well known:


Identify a cause that can be claimed to be an evil or ill of society.
Identify presumed victims.
Develop simplistic bromides to feed to the victims.
Make sure the group is sizable and ignorant enough to believe the premise and solutions.
Turn them loose to shout over any rational discussion of the issue (essentially make them a mob).

Tomenable
21-07-16, 13:40
Wanderlust (post #40):

So you have no real counter-arguments ??? Just a personal attack (claiming that I'm like radical Muslims) and a long rant based on some Polonophobic video. It's a bit annoying that you always resort to personal or ethnic attacks.

Just to let you know - the documentary that you linked is as propagandistic as 2012 "Stadiums of Hate":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerns_and_controversies_related_to_UEFA_Euro_20 12#Sensationalism.2C_racism.2C_antisemitism_and_ho oliganism

"Euro 2012: are Ukrainians still Untermenschen?": http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/12520#.V5Cw6hKDrYI

"Euro 2012: where are these stadiums of hate?": http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/12552#.V5Cz4BKDrYJ

Exactly how many people came back in coffins from Euro 2012 ???

Did anyone actually count that, after all of that fearmongering?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqTGWBvSq8

Tomenable
21-07-16, 14:03
Wanderlust,


If you don't want to share the European Union's burdens, which includes immigration from the most problematic places on Earth, remove yourself. And then let's see how you fare.

NOTHING in the founding treaties (or any other legal acts) of the EU says that member states of the EU have an obligation to accept unlimited immigration from problematic places: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/collection/eu-law/treaties-founding.html

So no, this is not the EU's burden. But of course - as you know - Britain has removed itself already.

Yetos
21-07-16, 14:16
should we now expect Polish suicide bombers in Brussels too?

that is an amazing post,

+ reputation from me,
I do not believe that Poles would turn to suicide bombers,
but I do not exclude that other will follow the jihadists methods,
as for Poland I believe that soon will follow the river flow,
a kind of Putin or Erdogan or trump will raise there soon

gyms
21-07-16, 14:36
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/syriza-everything-you-need-to-know-about-greece-s-new-marxist-governing-party-10002197.html

Syriza: Everything you need to know about Greece’s new Marxist governing party

Syriza is an acronym and stands for ‘Coalition of the Radical Left’. The party started life as a federation of smaller parties but became a single organisation after a conference in July 2013, when it was clear it could be on the brink of power.

gyms
21-07-16, 14:52
"If you don't want to share the European Union's burdens, which includes immigration from the most problematic places on Earth, remove yourself. And then let's see how you fare."

What?
"The strongest argument for liberalism in practice ends up being that non-liberals are stupid and crazy."
http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/09/10/non-liberals-stupid-crazy/

Is this your humanist- credo?

gyms
21-07-16, 15:08
http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Protection-and-asylum-in-Sweden.html

News

20 July 2016

The Swedish Parliament has adopted a new law which limits asylum seekers' possibilities of being granted residence permits and being reunited with their families. The new law entered into force on 20 July 2016, but it will also affect those who applied for asylum before 20 July. The new law is temporary and will apply for three years.


Temporary residence permits

Under the new law asylum seekers who are entitled to protection will only be granted temporary residence permits in Sweden. A person who is given refugee status will be granted a residence permit for three years and a person who is given subsidiary protection status will be granted a residence permit for 13 months

Limited possibilities of family reunification

Increased maintenance requirements for family reunification

Voyager
21-07-16, 15:09
Every one is may be aware of what occured on friday 13th 2015 at Bataclan night club where around 90 innocent persons were killed by three muslim terrorists.
But Bataclan terrorist attack was much worse than thought at first. I just had this news. An inquiry commission of our national assembly lead by the Deputy Mr Fennec investigate the Bataclan terrorist attack.
Apparently, the terrorists did not only shot young peoples. They also did monstruous torture acts on women and men, of course they beheaded some of them but they also pulled off eyes, eviscerate (pulled off bowels) slashed women genitals with knife. All of that occured during hours upstairs. Of course all of that was kept hidden so far and it 's not shout every where by all the medias but it is in the french Report available on the gouvernment internet site
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/pdf/rap-enq/r3922-t2.pdf
look p362 : "M. T. P. Des corps n’ont pas été présentés aux familles parce qu’il y a eu des gensdécapités, des gens égorgés, des gens qui ont été éviscérés. Il y a des femmes qui ont pris descoups de couteau au niveau des appareils génitaux. "
p263 : "M. T. P. Ils se sont fait exploser. Il y a eu des personnes décapitées, égorgées,éviscérées. Il y a eu des mimiques d’actes sexuels sur des femmes et des coups de couteau auniveau des appareils génitaux. Si je ne me trompe pas, les yeux de certaines personnes ont étéarrachés."
p367 :" M. le président Georges Fenech. Pour l’information de la commission d’enquête,monsieur P. T., pouvez-vous nous dire comment vous avez appris qu’il y avait eu des actes debarbarie à l’intérieur du Bataclan : décapitations, éviscérations, énucléations… ?
M. le président Georges Fenech. Pour l’information de la commission d’enquête,monsieur P. T., pouvez-vous nous dire comment vous avez appris qu’il y avait eu des actes debarbarie à l’intérieur du Bataclan : décapitations, éviscérations, énucléations… ?
M. T. P. Après l’assaut, nous étions avec des collègues au niveau du passage SaintPierre-Amelotlorsque j’ai vu sortir un enquêteur en pleurs qui est allé vomir. Il nous a dit cequ’il avait vu. Je ne connaissais pas ce collègue, mais il avait été tellement choqué que c’estsorti naturellement."


google traduction:
P362 : "Mr. T. P. Bodies have not been presented to families because it had beheaded people there, murdered people, people who have been eviscerated. There are women who have taken stabs at the genitals."
p263 :"Mr P. T. They blew themselves up. There was decapitated people slaughtered, gutted. There were expressions of sexual acts on women and stabbing at the genitals. If I'm not mistaken, the eyes of some people have been uprooted."
P367 :"Mr. President Georges Fenech. For the information of the Commission of Inquiry, Mr P. T., can you tell us how you learned that there had been acts of barbarism within the Bataclan: beheadings, evisceration, enucleation ...?
Mr. T. P. After the assault, we were with colleagues at the passage SaintPierre-Amelot
when I saw an investigator out in tears that went vomit. He said this
he had seen. I did not know this colleague, but he was so shocked that this is
naturally released"


Sorry if I may be disturb you but every body must know!

gyms
21-07-16, 15:16
Geneva Conventions

https://www.icrc.org/en/war-and-law/treaties-customary-law/geneva-Conventions (https://www.icrc.org/en/war-and-law/treaties-customary-law/geneva-conventions)

https://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Treaty.xsp?documentId=8BC1504B556D2F80C125710F002F 4B28&action=openDocument

Dublin III Regulation

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/the_asylum_process_in_ireland/dublin_convention.html

 

 
REGULATION (EU) No 604/2013 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2013:180:0031:0059:EN:PDF


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/images/email.gif (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/sendtofriend/?url=/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/the_asylum_process_in_ireland/dublin_convention.html)

gyms
21-07-16, 15:29
Wanderlust:Lastly, a lot of the people of foreign origin in France come from places and peoples that were once brutalized by French imperialism and colonialism."

Have The Romans...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

Wanderlust
21-07-16, 15:33
should we now expect Polish suicide bombers in Brussels too?

Who knows? Far Right, White Nationalist Terrorists are capable of the worst depravity, similar to the idiot Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/sweden-police-arrest-14-armed-far-right-poles-over-refugee-centre-attack-plot-1542894


Police in Sweden say they have disrupted a suspected attack on a refugee centre by 14 far-right Poles armed with axes, knives and pipes. The suspects, aged between 20 and 35, were stopped in cars close to a refugee centre in the town of Nynashamn, 35 miles (60 km) from Stockholm after police received a tip-off.

Most are thought to be Polish nationals, many of whom live in Sweden. According to local reports, the men planned the attack on Facebook, following an alleged altercation on board a commuter train. The men are said to have denied planning any attack.

"They are Polish citizens, and seem to be part of the far-right scene," Stockholm police spokesman Lars Alvarsjo told Radio Sweden. "Three of them were involved in a demonstration against refugees two weeks ago and were arrested for assaulting someone." Another police spokesman, Varg Gyllander added: "I have heard that they had links to far-right groups as well, but according to the prosecutor we can't confirm that as of today."


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/polish-far-right-groups-extending-influence-across-europe-warns-expert-1547636



Polish far right groups are extending their influence across Europe through radicalised members of the country's diaspora, a leading expert has warned.


Rafal Pankowski, professor at the Collegium Civitas and a director of the Never Again anti-racism group, said that branches of far-right groups had been set up in Polish immigrant communities throughout Europe, where they are forming alliances with native anti-immigrant groups, and engaging in racist attacks.


In an interview with IBTimes UK, he stressed of "the active role of [Polish far-right] organisations and networks in moving or leading some of those groups or some of those people into certain dangerous directions" adding "I would not underestimate the role of those groups in poisoning community relations."


The warning comes with Polish far-right groups stepping up their activity across Europe in response to the refugee crisis. In February, fourteen far right activists in Sweden were arrested for planning to attack asylum seekers with axes, iron pipes and knives. Swedish police said some of the men were residents of Sweden, while others had travelled to the country.


Last week Polish far-right activists joined UK extremists the North-West Infidels at a rally in Liverpool, where they clashed with anti-racism demonstrators.


Warsaw is the location of one of Europe's largest far-right rallies, with tens of thousands of extremists from throughout Europe gathering on 11 November every year to mark the country's independence day. Last year, 50,000 attending the rally, burning EU flags and chanting anti-Islam and anti-EU slogans.

The occasion has provided an ideal opportunity for Polish extremists to build alliances across the continent.


In a recent report anti-racism group Hope not Hate identified several Polish far-right groups operating in the UK, with the Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski (National Rebirth of Poland) group among the most active. The organisation is believed to be responsible for an attack on a London music festival in 2014.


In Sweden, Polish far right groups have formed ties with members of the Nordisk Ungdom (Nordic Youth) fascist group, while in neighbouring Hungary Polish extremists have built alliances with far-right group Jobbik, which is notorious for its fiercely anti-Semitic rhetoric and for organising attacks against Roma.


The Polish far right NOP party has a strong internet presence, with members communicating through the group's Facebook pages ot the party website, which has pages for supporters in several European countries.


"Definitely there is quite a lot of interaction and collaboration of far-right groups across borders", said Pankowski, "which is kind of paradoxical but on a different level it makes sense because they have the same enemy: pluralist democracy and the whole idea of diversity."


After Poland became part of the EU, millions of young Poles took advantage of the union's freedom of movement policy to escape economic stagnation at home and find employment in prosperous northern European countries. Pankowski acknowledges the 'paradox' that those who are themselves immigrants should show support for such violently anti-immigrant groups.


"They don't seem to realise they are actually attacking other migrants who may be in a similar situation apart from they have a different skin colour," he said.


With Poland among the least multicultural societies in Europe, moving to a country with a sizeable ethnic minority population can trigger an identity crisis for some young Polish immigrants, he said. "I think many are quite confused about their identity, and being Polish abroad means understanding what multicultural society looks like, but for others it brings out dormant prejudice, and reinforces some prejudices they are prone to."

LeBrok
21-07-16, 15:45
well done LeBrok.

I can tell you, nobody here got it.
It just proves you're obsessed.Just think about stupidity of this statement. It means, that either you think you are the smartest here, and if you didn't get it nobody did. Or you some kind of a leader of "anybody else" here, and they all told you that they didn't get it. Neither one is true, so please stop debating, and start just listen. Perhaps with time some wisdom of others will rab on you.

Wanderlust
21-07-16, 15:53
Wanderlust (post #40):

So you have no real counter-arguments ??? Just a personal attack (claiming that I'm like radical Muslims) and a long rant based on some Polonophobic video. It's a bit annoying that you always resort to personal or ethnic attacks.

Just to let you know - the documentary that you linked is as propagandistic as 2012 "Stadiums of Hate":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerns_and_controversies_related_to_UEFA_Euro_20 12#Sensationalism.2C_racism.2C_antisemitism_and_ho oliganism

"Euro 2012: are Ukrainians still Untermenschen?": http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/12520#.V5Cw6hKDrYI

"Euro 2012: where are these stadiums of hate?": http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/12552#.V5Cz4BKDrYJ

Exactly how many people came back in coffins from Euro 2012 ???

Did anyone actually count that, after all of that fearmongering?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqTGWBvSq8

1.) Sigh. More intellectual dishonesty. Please don't address me with sarcastic low cunning and then not expect sarcasm in return. If you can't handle it, leave me alone and don't address me at all.

2.) I did not make any insults or ethnic attacks. I gave you nothing but the truth. And I'm not surprised that the truth hurts.

3.) My counter argument was essentially based on the premise that you are hypocritical and lack any sense of self-awareness because you refuse to see the ways in which your worldview blatantly parallels Islamic fundamentalists--if you could see that, you'd realize how ridiculous your position is and then perhaps, you'd have humility and understand that the whole should not be judged by the folly of the few. If you feel insulted by the truth, change your ways. It's simple.

4.) The video I posted was anything but polonophobic. I'm not you, I don't post things from extremists. Vice covers different subcultures across the globe--evidently, you are unfamiliar with their good work. Your problem, not mine.

5.) Like many people on the political fringes, the truth bothers you and anything that goes against your worldview, is by default, "propaganda." How convenient. Sometimes, I wish I could erect the mental walls and roadblocks to not see whatever it is I don't want to like some of you can. Herregud.

Maleth
21-07-16, 15:54
Wanderlust,



NOTHING in the founding treaties (or any other legal acts) of the EU says that member states of the EU have an obligation to accept unlimited immigration from problematic places: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/collection/eu-law/treaties-founding.html

So no, this is not the EU's burden. But of course - as you know - Britain has removed itself already.

Never forget that a huge complain re immigration in the UK was immigrants from within the EU itself. I don't need to elaborate.

Wanderlust
21-07-16, 16:09
Wanderlust,



NOTHING in the founding treaties (or any other legal acts) of the EU says that member states of the EU have an obligation to accept unlimited immigration from problematic places: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/collection/eu-law/treaties-founding.html

So no, this is not the EU's burden. But of course - as you know - Britain has removed itself already.

LOL Britain removed itself because of "unlimited immigration" from Poland! LOL AGAIN, you keep proving my point. The same biases you have towards Muslims, others have towards you! But that doesn't color your perception or add some empathy and compassion. Instead, you continue to delusionally believe that you are so special and are the exception to your own rules.

Lastly, Poland is not Britain. Britain has a strong economy that has been weakened by leaving the EU. If Poland removed itself from the EU, do you think it would fare better or worse economically? If Britain catches a metaphorical cold from leaving the EU, Poland will contract walking pneumonia. Try it and see.

Maleth
21-07-16, 16:38
LOL Britain removed itself because of "unlimited immigration" from Poland! LOL AGAIN, you keep proving my point. The same biases you have towards Muslims, others have towards you! But that doesn't color your perception or add some empathy and compassion. Instead, you continue to delusionally believe that you are so special and are the exception to your own rules.

Lastly, Poland is not Britain. Britain has a strong economy that has been weakened by leaving the EU. If Poland removed itself from the EU, do you think it would fare better or worse economically? If Britain catches a metaphorical cold from leaving the EU, Poland will contract walking pneumonia. Try it and see.

Its all about immigration from the EU.

Listen to this
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36848291

To be honest its not just Poles although they constitute the largest group but many others mostly from Eastern Europe. Of course because of high unemployment there was also a lesser movement of people from the South of Europe.

If this happened in the US no one would notice if people moved from State to State, but the EU is not the US and people are still moving from country to country.

What most Brits did not like is, that these EU migrants could automatically claim social welfare (including child benefits), dole money and accommodation which often amounted to a total income higher then the wages they would get in their perspective countries.

The Irony is that David Cameron actually has managed to get concessions before the referendum and for this not to happen anymore. It seems that it was too late and the new terms were distrusted by the average voter.

By the way, when one watches that link it seems that even now there seems to be some kind of distrust after the referendum and that UK will be pulling out.

gyms
21-07-16, 16:56
Maleth:Its all about immigration from the EU."

No Maleth,you are totally wrong.They are not immigrants!

European labour law

European labour law is the developing field of laws relating to rights of employment and partnership at work within the European Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) and countries adhering to the European Convention on Human Rights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law

bicicleur
21-07-16, 17:07
Who knows? Far Right, White Nationalist Terrorists are capable of the worst depravity, similar to the idiot Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/sweden-police-arrest-14-armed-far-right-poles-over-refugee-centre-attack-plot-1542894




http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/polish-far-right-groups-extending-influence-across-europe-warns-expert-1547636

boo - boo - boo

in no way you can compare these hooligans with those fanatics who blow themselves up in order to kill as many 'infidels' as possible

and you are talking about intellectual dishonesty?

bicicleur
21-07-16, 17:11
LOL Britain removed itself because of "unlimited immigration" from Poland! LOL AGAIN, you keep proving my point. The same biases you have towards Muslims, others have towards you! But that doesn't color your perception or add some empathy and compassion. Instead, you continue to delusionally believe that you are so special and are the exception to your own rules.

Lastly, Poland is not Britain. Britain has a strong economy that has been weakened by leaving the EU. If Poland removed itself from the EU, do you think it would fare better or worse economically? If Britain catches a metaphorical cold from leaving the EU, Poland will contract walking pneumonia. Try it and see.


Its all about immigration from the EU.

Listen to this
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36848291

To be honest its not just Poles although they constitute the largest group but many others mostly from Eastern Europe. Of course because of high unemployment there was also a lesser movement of people from the South of Europe.

If this happened in the US no one would notice if people moved from State to State, but the EU is not the US and people are still moving from country to country.

What most Brits did not like is, that these EU migrants could automatically claim social welfare (including child benefits), dole money and accommodation which often amounted to a total income higher then the wages they would get in their perspective countries.

The Irony is that David Cameron actually has managed to get concessions before the referendum and for this not to happen anymore. It seems that it was too late and the new terms were distrusted by the average voter.

By the way, when one watches that link it seems that even now there seems to be some kind of distrust after the referendum and that UK will be pulling out.

you both didn't adress the question

Angela Merkel nor the EU have the right to impose any quota to recieve immigrant from outside of the EU on any EU memberstate
the EU memberstates are obliged to admit citizens of other EU memberstates

gyms
21-07-16, 17:11
Wanderlust:Lastly, Poland is not Britain.

No and never will be!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNk7yyxE3b8

bicicleur
21-07-16, 17:14
Just think about stupidity of this statement. It means, that either you think you are the smartest here, and if you didn't get it nobody did. Or you some kind of a leader of "anybody else" here, and they all told you that they didn't get it. Neither one is true, so please stop debating, and start just listen. Perhaps with time some wisdom of others will rab on you.

well, well

I stepped on your toes and appearantly it hurts

time to be honoust with yourself LeBrok

Maleth
21-07-16, 17:24
you both didn't adress the question

Angela Merkel nor the EU have the right to impose any quota to recieve immigrant from outside of the EU on any EU memberstate
the EU memberstates are obliged to admit citizens of other EU memberstates

thats just part of it and by eliminating the whole scenario and not seeing things as they are its not going to make you sound right. I dont think anything would to be honest. You are just fixated on one subject. Its annoying very annoying to be honest.

Maleth
21-07-16, 17:30
Maleth:Its all about immigration from the EU."

No Maleth,you are totally wrong.They are not immigrants!

European labour law

European labour law is the developing field of laws relating to rights of employment and partnership at work within the European Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) and countries adhering to the European Convention on Human Rights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law

For (the majority of British people or anyone else for that matter) its ALL migration. They do not give two hoots about European Labour Law. Refugies would fall under United nations rules and are temporaly migrants and NOT given citizenship until things get better in their countries unless the home office decides otherwise. There are strict rules on that, and Britian has one of the toughest believe me. Immigrants from NON EU countries DO NOT APPLY for social services and dole money. They need to have a job and make their way. EU citizens its different. Thats what annoys alot of people. They can claim claim claim according to EU directives

Tomenable
21-07-16, 20:20
the whole should not be judged by the folly of the few.

Maybe let's respond with a quotation from a homosexual journalist Milo Yiannopoulos :

"(...) Islam is a set of ideas and like any other set of ideas, we are perfectly entitled to interrogate it and find it wanting. I personally find it wanting. I would also like to say, that as a gay person I am terrified by massive Muslim immigration, because the homophobia in the Islamic community, in the Ummah, is not restricted to terrorists. It is not restricted to ISIS. As many as 51 percent of British Muslims believe that gay sex should be against the law. This is not Muslims in Syria, this is not Muslims in Raqqa - this is Muslims who live three streets away from me. Every other one of them believes that my lifestyle should be illegal. 39 percent of British Muslims believe that a woman should always obey her husband. Where are feminists on that? 25 percent of British Muslims believe that Sharia Law should be instituted, which under certain circumstances treats a woman's testimony as worth half of a man's. (...) I'm not scared by terrorists, I'm scared by Islam. (...)"

Tomenable
21-07-16, 20:35
millions of young Poles took advantage of the union's freedom of movement policy to escape economic stagnation at home and find employment in prosperous northern European countries.

What "economic stagnation" are you talking about ???

Poland is Europe's most dynamic economy - according to Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-11-27/how-poland-became-europes-most-dynamic-economy

http://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iEHL.Kr5aMY8/v1/-1x-1.jpg

And below excerpts from Marcin Piątkowski's 2013 study "Poland's New Golden Age":

"(...) In 2012 Poland’s GDP was almost 20 percent higher than at the beginning of the crisis, a peerless performance among all EU 27 countries (Figure 4)."

http://s18.postimg.org/6j5tesjy1/Figure_4.png

"(...) Strong performance during the crisis helped Poland become the star performer among all transition economies. Its GDP per capita has doubled since 1989, performance partially matched by the Slovak Republic and Estonia only. Poland’s economic growth was also faster than in any other country on the continent, becoming Europe’s growth champion (Figure 5)."

I also posted similar stats in another thread some time ago (LINK below):

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31521-Poland-s-GDP-PC-in-of-other-European-and-Western-GDP-PC

http://s30.postimg.org/taokn8mgx/Figure_5.png

In reality Poland's GDP growth between 1989 and 2012 (see above) has been achieved entirely in period 1992 - 2012. This is because in 1989 - 1992 Polish GDP actually declined by 15%, and only since 1992 it started to grow, by 2012 reaching 200% of 1989 level.

In 1989 Polish GDP per capita was 35% of old EU average (other estimates: 29% and 36%), while in 1992 Polish GDP per capita was no more than 28% of Western European average. In 2007 - already 50% of Western European average and in 2012 - 61%:

"(...) As a result of this impressive economic performance, Poland’s income per capita in 2012 reached 61 percent of that in Western Europe (euro zone-17), more than doubling from 28 percent in 1992. (...)"

And:

"(...) This implies that in just twenty years Poland has managed to offset almost 350 years of economic decline, an unprecedented achievement comparable to the economic success of only some Asian economies such as Japan, Korea and China. (...)"

Let's also add that GDP per capita is not the only indicator of living standards, as Piątkowski notices:

http://s28.postimg.org/bcbghbljh/image.png

http://s24.postimg.org/f7pf3y2qd/image.png

http://s16.postimg.org/53fnr4db9/image.png

http://s18.postimg.org/9sworw9vd/image.png

Maybe Piątkowski's conclusions are too optimistic, but claiming that there is "economic stagnation" would be insane.

Tomenable
21-07-16, 20:50
^ So as you can see Poles do not (currently) emigrate because of "economic stagnation". You need to find other explanations. Maybe they just have a wanderlust like you? Ask LeBrok why did he emigrate (but IIRC he emigrated in the 1980s, before the fall of Communism, so reasons for emigration back then were different than in the 1990s or in the 2000s and 2010s). I think that emigration is just a typically Polish thing (it has been for the last 250 years or so, due to various reasons). Just look how numerous are Polish-Americans, for example. In general the Polish Diaspora around the world, is almost as numerous as the population of Poland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_contemporary_ethnic_groups#cite_note-27

But the Irish still beat us by far. The Irish Diaspora is few times the size of the population of Ireland.

====================

During the final stage of Communism in the 1980s, immediately after the fall of Communism and during the Post-Communist transformation (in the 1990s), life in Poland was certainly much, much worse than today. However, this does not explain (at least not entirely) why such a massive emigration started in 2004, immediately after Poland entered the EU.

Tomenable
21-07-16, 21:48
Poland among the least multicultural societies in Europe

Poland used to be the most multicultural society in Europe. Now we are among the least.

Question is - who made us like this? Was that a Germanic extremist, or an Islamic extremist ???

Probably both of them. Benjamin Netanyahu is blaming the Muslim extremist even more:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJC7BazZNso

Petros Houhoulis
21-07-16, 21:54
^ So as you can see Poles do not (currently) emigrate because of "economic stagnation". You need to find other explanations.

...

During the final stage of Communism in the 1980s, immediately after the fall of Communism and during the Post-Communist transformation (in the 1990s), life in Poland was certainly much, much worse than today. However, this does not explain (at least not entirely) why such a massive emigration started in 2004, immediately after Poland entered the EU.

Economic stagnation is not the reason, but the differences in salaries between Poland and, let's say Britain remain enormous. The massive emigration started because the Poles could finally migrate legally within the EU.

Tomenable
21-07-16, 21:58
Just like in WW2 German National Socialist leaders and Muslim leader Amin al-Husseini cooperated against Jews, today actions of Swedish far-left socialists and Muslim extremists are forcing the Jewish minority of Sweden to abandon their homes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu0ML8IffbY

Tomenable
21-07-16, 22:05
According to Muslims, "the Jews are worse than Hitler" (no surpise they say this, after all Hitler was their friend):

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116306

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler


"Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified. Once the Jewish poison had been eradicated, unification would have been an easy matter. (...) that would have allowed Europe to pursue a bold policy of friendship towards Islam." - Adolf Hitler, 4 February 1945.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mWX8VB18nI

Tomenable
21-07-16, 22:17
Sweden Public Radio Asks: Are Jews Responsible for Anti-Semitism?:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY1jMs1CZUg

bicicleur
21-07-16, 22:27
thats just part of it and by eliminating the whole scenario and not seeing things as they are its not going to make you sound right. I dont think anything would to be honest. You are just fixated on one subject. Its annoying very annoying to be honest.

ok , I think it is stupid that the Brittish want to expell all those Poles who are doing a good job in England
that does not mean we should let in all those people who paid a ticket to human trafickers and who have a very unrealistic view on life in Europe

this thread is about the German train attack

it is very annoying that some people bring up the subject of Poles in England which has nothing to do with that

gyms
21-07-16, 23:29
it is very annoying that some people bring up the subject of Poles in England which has nothing to do with that

Kinda straw man imo.Extreme-left patient lift.

LeBrok
22-07-16, 04:46
Maybe let's respond with a quotation from a homosexual journalist Milo Yiannopoulos :

"(...) Islam is a set of ideas and like any other set of ideas, we are perfectly entitled to interrogate it and find it wanting. I personally find it wanting. I would also like to say, that as a gay person I am terrified by massive Muslim immigration, because the homophobia in the Islamic community, in the Ummah, is not restricted to terrorists. It is not restricted to ISIS. As many as 51 percent of British Muslims believe that gay sex should be against the law. This is not Muslims in Syria, this is not Muslims in Raqqa - this is Muslims who live three streets away from me. Every other one of them believes that my lifestyle should be illegal. 39 percent of British Muslims believe that a woman should always obey her husband. Where are feminists on that? 25 percent of British Muslims believe that Sharia Law should be instituted, which under certain circumstances treats a woman's testimony as worth half of a man's. (...) I'm not scared by terrorists, I'm scared by Islam. (...)"Now, go get the numbers and let's compare these percentages for Poland. 40% does not tolerate homosexuality at all, 60% against same sex marriage, 87% against same sex adoption. I'm sure 50% of population wouldn't mind Catholic church running the country as judicial and political entity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Poland
But don't "despair" Russia is much worse at 75% not accepting homosexuality! I'm sure they still believe that the "infection" came from the rotten West.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

Generally speaking we see the trend. The poorer and more religious the country the more conservative and intolerant. Conversely, the more prosperous and less religious the more tolerant. Simple facts. Grade 3 understanding level.


Don't worry everyone, Eastern Europe will save Western Europe from intolerant Muslims, lol.

LeBrok
22-07-16, 04:51
ok , I think it is stupid that the Brittish want to expell all those Poles who are doing a good job in England
that does not mean we should let in all those people who paid a ticket to human trafickers and who have a very unrealistic view on life in Europe
tWhat a refreshing change I can see in you. I remember you having difficulty admitting, a year ago, that there are any "good" immigrants in Belgium at all. Or maybe it is only good for UK, but always bad for Belgium?

bicicleur
22-07-16, 07:42
What a refreshing change I can see in you. I remember you having difficulty admitting, a year ago, that there are any "good" immigrants in Belgium at all. Or maybe it is only good for UK, but always bad for Belgium?

I'm allways in for immigration of people with the right attitude and skills.
I'm against uncontrolled immigration.

Maleth
22-07-16, 08:24
ok , I think it is stupid that the Brittish want to expell all those Poles who are doing a good job in England
that does not mean we should let in all those people who paid a ticket to human trafickers and who have a very unrealistic view on life in Europe

I think you just managed to grusp a fraction of what the bulk of British anti immigration is all about.........and probably you said that very unwillingly..........Phew that was a hard job...................

Maleth
22-07-16, 08:28
it is very annoying that some people bring up the subject of Poles in England which has nothing to do with that

Kinda straw man imo.Extreme-left patient lift.

all you need to do is sort of look at the facts and general picture. Getting fixated on just a part and repeat adnauseam (how many threads been open about it?) is not a very healthy outlook (in my opinion)

bicicleur
22-07-16, 08:50
I think you just managed to grusp a fraction of what the bulk of British anti immigration is all about.........and probably you said that very unwillingly..........Phew that was a hard job...................

...............


I'm allways in for immigration of people with the right attitude and skills.
I'm against uncontrolled immigration.

Tomenable
22-07-16, 17:16
40% does not tolerate homosexuality at all

Wrong, only 26% (I'm using the same source, so you misinterpreted something):

http://www.cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2013/K_024_13.PDF

February 2013 (data from RYS. 2. in the link above):

Do you think that:

1) homosexualism is a normal thing = 12%
2) homosexualism is a departure from norm, but it must be tolerated = 57%
3) homosexualism is a departure from norm, and we shouldn't tolerate it = 26%

4) hard to say = 5%

https://s31.postimg.org/3xijk1b4b/Geje_PL.png

LABERIA
22-07-16, 19:29
http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0722/804195-munich-attack/

LABERIA
22-07-16, 20:22
An second attack:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/532147/Munich-shooting-Deutschland-Metro-Station

Maleth
23-07-16, 18:49
How confusing this reporting was. Initially it was three shooters and they fled away with Munich coming to a standstill. But considering the high alert and recent Nice attacks the reaction is also understandable. Now apparently it was one and he shot himself. Very sad like all the other terrorist attacks. Innocent people being slain for no reason. Pure Evil. This kind of shooting was not seen in Germany since 2009 when Tim Kreshmer shot dead 19 people including students :(.