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View Full Version : Erdoğan's foot soldiers in Germany demonstrate in support of their Supreme Leader



Dinarid
01-08-16, 05:45
http://www.dw.com/en/thousands-of-pro-erdogan-protesters-rally-in-cologne/a-19439669
I saw one German flag in that rally, at the edge of the picture. The idea of a large number of foreigners coming to a country and then proudly displaying pictures of a foreign leader seems to me like an invasion, by a bunch of brainwashed morons who willingly feed their narcissistic leader's cult of personality. But, of course, this is clearly Islamophobic fear-mongering and propaganda.

Wanderlust
01-08-16, 13:10
The idea of a large number of foreigners coming to a country and then proudly displaying pictures of a foreign leader seems to me like an invasion, by a bunch of brainwashed morons who willingly feed their narcissistic leader's cult of personality.

Instinctively, I'm inclined to agree with the spirit of your sentiment--I don't like the optics of such a display for a foreign pseudo-dictator. But if some German Turks love and support him so much, then why not go and support him? Back in Turkey, that is.

However, as always with these situations, the complexity of human nature rears its misshapen, asymmetrical head. Right or wrong, Erdogan makes some of the Turkish people feel strong and powerful in a world where they feel powerless. Many of the German Turks still feel like unwanted, second class citizens, even after 2 or 3 generations of living in Germany, and so they may receive a certain amount of misguided yet understandable pride in the fact the country of their origin is again relevant on the world stage and is sticking it to the (Western) powers that be. History has consistently shown us that nationalism peaks particularly in times of uncertainty and chaos. I'm not saying that I agree with it, because I don't; I'm just saying that it's understandable.


But, of course, this is clearly Islamophobic fear-mongering and propaganda.

The problem here is that you're conflating Turkish nationalism with Islam--yes, there may be some overlap (especially considering Erdogan's brand of politics) but the central concern in this situation should be more about the former than it is with the latter, I believe. Islam does not have to be involved in order for me find a demonstration in support of a foreign authoritarian to be distasteful and unseemly.

bicicleur
01-08-16, 14:01
Erdogan administration has collected adresses, e-mailadresses and contact info of all Turks living in Europe.
He is providing them with his propaganda on regular basis and when there are elections in Turkey he asks for their votes.
I see on social media Erdogan has a lot of succes with that, many European Turks support Erdogan policy.
I don't understand how a majority in Turkey can support such fascist nationalistic leader, much less why European Turks do.
European Turks should decide what they want to be, Turk or European. With such leader like Erdogan you can't be both.
Also existence of double nationality should be questioned.

Islam has something to do with it. Turkey is drifting away from a secular state to an Islamic state. Erdogan repeatedly refers to Islamic 'virtues' like e.g. the place of women in society as supporter of their husband and not persuing own ambitions. He is just one step away from discriminating non-Muslim people. Supporting Islam in this way is one of the main things that make Erdogan popular in Turkey.

Foxhall
01-08-16, 14:56
I feel that there are even some practising Muslims that are starting to strongly disagree with Erdogan's policies.

bicicleur
01-08-16, 16:13
I feel that there are even some practising Muslims that are starting to strongly disagree with Erdogan's policies.

maybe, but his general popularity is certainly not declining

Dinarid
01-08-16, 18:24
Instinctively, I'm inclined to agree with the spirit of your sentiment--I don't like the optics of such a display for a foreign pseudo-dictator. But if some German Turks love and support him so much, then why not go and support him? Back in Turkey, that is.

However, as always with these situations, the complexity of human nature rears its misshapen, asymmetrical head. Right or wrong, Erdogan makes some of the Turkish people feel strong and powerful in a world where they feel powerless. Many of the German Turks still feel like unwanted, second class citizens, even after 2 or 3 generations of living in Germany, and so they may receive a certain amount of misguided yet understandable pride in the fact the country of their origin is again relevant on the world stage and is sticking it to the (Western) powers that be. History has consistently shown us that nationalism peaks particularly in times of uncertainty and chaos. I'm not saying that I agree with it, because I don't; I'm just saying that it's understandable.



The problem here is that you're conflating Turkish nationalism with Islam--yes, there may be some overlap (especially considering Erdogan's brand of politics) but the central concern in this situation should be more about the former than it is with the latter, I believe. Islam does not have to be involved in order for me find a demonstration in support of a foreign authoritarian to be distasteful and unseemly.
I agree with the last bit especially- no group of foreigners should have the right to do this regardless of religion. It's just the fact that this included Muslims in a society where Islamophobia is a taboo makes things a bit harder.

Dinarid
01-08-16, 18:26
I feel that there are even some practising Muslims that are starting to strongly disagree with Erdogan's policies.
And I feel that there are even some practicing Christians that are starting to disagree with Vladimir Putin's policies. It goes without saying.

dodona
04-08-16, 09:23
I feel that there are even some practising Muslims that are starting to strongly disagree with Erdogan's policies. racist and communist curds and some intellectual morons.

Dinarid
06-08-16, 11:35
racist and communist curds and some intellectual morons.<br>
I really do hope you're being sarcastic.

Dutch Michael Gilson
24-10-16, 22:56
The West is being invaded. The sooner they admit who the invaders and the enemy is the soon the problem can be eradicated

A. Papadimitriou
24-10-16, 23:37
Erdogan administration has collected adresses, e-mailadresses and contact info of all Turks living in Europe.
He is providing them with his propaganda on regular basis and when there are elections in Turkey he asks for their votes.
I see on social media Erdogan has a lot of succes with that, many European Turks support Erdogan policy.
I don't understand how a majority in Turkey can support such fascist nationalistic leader, much less why European Turks do.
European Turks should decide what they want to be, Turk or European. With such leader like Erdogan you can't be both.
Also existence of double nationality should be questioned.

Islam has something to do with it. Turkey is drifting away from a secular state to an Islamic state. Erdogan repeatedly refers to Islamic 'virtues' like e.g. the place of women in society as supporter of their husband and not persuing own ambitions. He is just one step away from discriminating non-Muslim people. Supporting Islam in this way is one of the main things that make Erdogan popular in Turkey.

The opposition is nationalist too. He isn't fascist but some short of Islamist. The Kemalists were traditionally more nationalist than the Islamists. That's why our political parties in Greece preferred Erdogan and AKP. Now things have become very complex.