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Hauteville
12-08-16, 11:26
Please discuss about new GEDmatch calculator.

John Doe
12-08-16, 12:34
23andme

Population
Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.83
Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.34
East_Asian 0.78
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 25.61
Natufian 49.46
Sub_Saharan 2.98


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Ashkenazi 3.39
2 Italian_South 4.04
3 Jew_Moroccan 4.23
4 Sicilian 4.38
5 Jew_Libyan 6.44
6 Jew_Tunisian 6.56
7 Greek 7.1
8 Armenia_ChL 7.87
9 Albanian 8.88
10 Cypriot 9.28
11 Turkish 11.03
12 Lebanese 12.16
13 Druze 12.67
14 Syrian 12.86
15 Bulgarian 13.03
16 Jordanian 13.1
17 Palestinian 13.64
18 Adygei 14.69
19 Romanian 14.97
20 Kumyk 15.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.9% Albanian + 42.1% Lebanese @ 1.06
2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28
6 64.7% Greek + 35.3% Syrian @ 1.28
7 59.3% Albanian + 40.7% Syrian @ 1.3
8 81.2% Sicilian + 18.8% Jew_iraqi @ 1.45
9 77.3% Italian_South + 22.7% Syrian @ 1.49
10 90.2% Jew_Moroccan + 9.8% Steppe_EMBA @ 1.49
11 86.2% Italian_South + 13.8% Yemeni @ 1.52
12 74.6% Sicilian + 25.4% Lebanese @ 1.53
13 85.2% Sicilian + 14.8% Kurd_F @ 1.55
14 85.6% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14.4% Lezgin @ 1.55
15 81% Sicilian + 19% Assyrian @ 1.57
16 90.1% Jew_Ashkenazi + 9.9% Iran_N @ 1.59
17 60.8% Albanian + 39.2% Palestinian @ 1.6
18 92.9% Jew_Ashkenazi + 7.1% CHG @ 1.6
19 86.4% Sicilian + 13.6% Iran_LN @ 1.61
20 85.5% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14.5% Georgian @ 1.62






Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Jew_iraqi +50% Spanish @ 1.913844


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +25% Icelandic +25% Palestinian @ 0.754884


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cypriot + Czech + Jew_Moroccan + Lebanese @ 0.728083
2 English + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Tunisian @ 0.753863
3 Cypriot + Cypriot + Icelandic + Palestinian @ 0.754884
4 Cypriot + English + Jew_Moroccan + Lebanese @ 0.763523
5 French + Georgian + Jew_Libyan + Jew_Tunisian @ 0.772481
6 Georgian + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Moroccan + Spanish @ 0.797972
7 Czech + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Libyan + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.805472
8 Cypriot + Europe_LNBA + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Yemenite @ 0.808124
9 Croatian + Cypriot + Italian_South + Jordanian @ 0.808888
10 Czech + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Tunisian @ 0.822470
11 Greek + Italian_South + Italian_South + Syrian @ 0.830846
12 BedouinA + Cypriot + Cypriot + Icelandic @ 0.834970
13 BedouinA + Italian_South + Lezgin + Sardinian @ 0.841344
14 French + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.842017
15 Druze + Icelandic + Italian_South + Jew_Yemenite @ 0.844557
16 Cypriot + Cypriot + Icelandic + Jordanian @ 0.845798
17 English + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Libyan + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.845995
18 French + Georgian + Jew_Libyan + Jew_Libyan @ 0.862185
19 Basque + BedouinA + Georgian + Italian_South @ 0.874539
20 Greek + Italian_South + Sicilian + Syrian @ 0.877736





FTDNA


Population
Ancestral_North_Eurasian 21.32
Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.64
East_Asian 0.99
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 25.73
Natufian 49.22
Sub_Saharan 2.10


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Ashkenazi 3.73
2 Italian_South 3.8
3 Sicilian 4.42
4 Jew_Moroccan 5.07
5 Greek 6.76
6 Armenia_ChL 7.12
7 Jew_Tunisian 7.34
8 Jew_Libyan 7.36
9 Albanian 8.66
10 Cypriot 9.34
11 Turkish 10.57
12 Lebanese 12.5
13 Bulgarian 12.71
14 Druze 12.76
15 Syrian 13.24
16 Jordanian 13.63
17 Adygei 14.09
18 Palestinian 14.2
19 Kumyk 14.44
20 Romanian 14.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.2% Sicilian + 15.8% Kurd_F @ 0.77
2 80% Sicilian + 20% Georgian @ 0.83
3 52% Jew_iraqi + 48% Spanish @ 0.94
4 85.6% Sicilian + 14.4% Iran_LN @ 0.97
5 82.9% Jew_Ashkenazi + 17.1% Lezgin @ 1.05
6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08
8 53.5% Druze + 46.5% Romanian @ 1.09
9 85.3% Sicilian + 14.7% Iran_ChL @ 1.11
10 86.5% Sicilian + 13.5% Iranian_Lori @ 1.11
11 82.6% Sicilian + 17.4% Iranian @ 1.12
12 50.1% Bulgarian + 49.9% Druze @ 1.13
13 81.5% Jew_Ashkenazi + 18.5% Chechen @ 1.18
14 80.2% Sicilian + 19.8% Assyrian @ 1.22
15 86.9% Italian_South + 13.1% Iranian_Shirazi @ 1.23
16 83.5% Sicilian + 16.5% Kurd_C @ 1.24
17 85.2% Sicilian + 14.8% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 1.25
18 80.5% Sicilian + 19.5% Azeri @ 1.27
19 59.3% Druze + 40.7% Croatian @ 1.29
20 80.1% Jew_Ashkenazi + 19.9% Adygei @ 1.3






Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +50% Druze @ 1.092285


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +25% Icelandic +25% Lebanese @ 0.538984


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cypriot + Druze + Jew_Moroccan + Ukrainian @ 0.383436
2 Cypriot + Druze + Jew_Moroccan + Norwegian @ 0.497999
3 Croatian + Cypriot + Italian_South + Syrian @ 0.532939
4 Cypriot + Cypriot + Icelandic + Lebanese @ 0.538984
5 Hungarian + Italian_South + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Tunisian @ 0.556780
6 Cypriot + Cypriot + Lebanese + Lithuanian @ 0.562817
7 Greek + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Tunisian + Romanian @ 0.583310
8 Levant_BA + Lezgin + Sicilian + Spanish @ 0.584336
9 Italian_South + Lezgin + Sardinian + Syrian @ 0.599485
10 Cypriot + Cypriot + Lithuanian + Palestinian @ 0.616808
11 Albanian + Bulgarian + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.632952
12 Cypriot + Druze + Europe_LNBA + Jew_Tunisian @ 0.648844
13 Cypriot + Greek + Romanian + Syrian @ 0.656249
14 Bulgarian + Georgian + Jew_Yemenite + Spanish @ 0.656985
15 Cypriot + Cypriot + Europe_LNBA + Lebanese @ 0.665471
16 Albanian + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Tunisian + Romanian @ 0.671159
17 French + Georgian + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Tunisian @ 0.694862
18 Jew_iraqi + Levant_BA + Lithuanian + Sicilian @ 0.698454
19 Cypriot + Druze + Jew_Tunisian + Norwegian @ 0.701543
20 Albanian + Albanian + Georgian + Jew_Libyan @ 0.705270

Hauteville
12-08-16, 13:45
Are you full ashkenazi?

John Doe
12-08-16, 13:59
Are you full ashkenazi?
As far as I can tell, why?

Hauteville
12-08-16, 15:08
Because as always Southern Italians, Sicilians and Greeks are very close with fully Ashkenazis.


1 Jew_Ashkenazi 3.73
2 Italian_South 3.8
3 Sicilian 4.42
4 Jew_Moroccan 5.07
5 Greek 6.76

Athiudisc
12-08-16, 15:17
# Population Percent

1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 43.58
2 Natufian 37.78
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.64

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Hungarian @ 2.307435
2 French @ 2.344309
3 English @ 3.018956
4 Czech @ 3.134698
5 Croatian @ 3.152654
6 Scottish @ 4.375124
7 Ukrainian @ 4.858283
8 Norwegian @ 5.029130
9 Icelandic @ 6.683311
10 Spanish @ 6.907271
11 Romanian @ 7.050628
12 Europe_LNBA @ 7.796211
13 Bulgarian @ 8.954685
14 Basque @ 9.539541
15 Estonian @ 10.341499
16 Lithuanian @ 10.867014
17 Russian @ 13.062507
18 Albanian @ 13.449377
19 Steppe_MLBA @ 13.517478
20 Finnish @ 13.686509

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian +50% English @ 1.122129

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Icelandic +25% Icelandic +25% Italian_South @ 1.062358

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Albanian + French + Icelandic + Icelandic @ 0.874256
2 Albanian + English + English + Icelandic @ 0.899158
3 French + Greek + Icelandic + Icelandic @ 0.966205
4 Albanian + Czech + English + Icelandic @ 1.026421
5 Albanian + Europe_LNBA + French + Icelandic @ 1.029222
6 Icelandic + Icelandic + Icelandic + Italian_South @ 1.062358
7 Albanian + English + English + Europe_LNBA @ 1.064542
8 English + Greek + Icelandic + Icelandic @ 1.078781
9 Albanian + English + Icelandic + Scottish @ 1.099248
10 Albanian + English + Icelandic + Norwegian @ 1.106835
11 Albanian + English + Icelandic + Icelandic @ 1.112116
12 Albanian + French + Icelandic + Norwegian @ 1.113339
13 Croatian + Croatian + English + English @ 1.122129
14 English + English + Greek + Icelandic @ 1.148729
15 Europe_LNBA + French + Greek + Icelandic @ 1.162690
16 French + Icelandic + Italian_South + Lithuanian @ 1.168102
17 English + French + Greek + Lithuanian @ 1.175619
18 English + English + English + Romanian @ 1.176878
19 Albanian + English + French + Lithuanian @ 1.177063
20 Bulgarian + English + English + English @ 1.186208

Angela
12-08-16, 16:33
@John Doe and Hauteville

This is interesting, don't you think?

"2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28"

That 60/40 southern European/Levant split has been proposed in academic analyses too.

Those are darn good fits.

With FTDNA you get the same split, and also the reverse, which, again, some academicians have proposed.

"6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08"

This seems better than others I've seen, but is there any reason why he has no North Italian or Tuscan reference samples? It's useless like this for us.

Twilight
12-08-16, 17:10
Not bad, although it looks like GedrosiaDNA left out ENF samples. :)


Ancient Eurasia K6 Oracle results:gedrosia K6 Oracle

Kit M174504

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
45.4


2
Natufian
35.22


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
19.17


4
Sub_Saharan
0.2



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Czech
1.26


2
English
1.34


3
Scottish
1.89


4
Norwegian
2.1


5
Ukrainian
2.73


6
Hungarian
3.49


7
Icelandic
3.61


8
French
4.4


9
Europe_LNBA
4.71


10
Croatian
6.05


11
Estonian
7.43


12
Lithuanian
7.82


13
Spanish
9.61


14
Romanian
9.98


15
Basque
10.24


16
Russian
11.08


17
Finnish
11.41


18
Steppe_MLBA
11.74


19
Bulgarian
11.77


20
Albanian
16.53



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

88%
Basque
+
12%
EHG
@
0.52


2

98.4%
English
+
1.6%
EHG
@
0.62


3

86.4%
Icelandic
+
13.6%
Italian_South
@
0.63


4

98.9%
English
+
1.1%
AG2
@
0.67


5

98.9%
English
+
1.1%
AG3
@
0.67


6

98.9%
English
+
1.1%
MA1
@
0.67


7

83.5%
Icelandic
+
16.5%
Greek
@
0.7


8

96.2%
English
+
3.8%
Steppe_EMBA
@
0.73


9

90.4%
Icelandic
+
9.6%
Cypriot
@
0.73


10

82.4%
Icelandic
+
17.6%
Albanian
@
0.74


11

85.7%
Icelandic
+
14.3%
Sicilian
@
0.77


12

92.3%
Icelandic
+
7.7%
Levant_BA
@
0.82


13

91.7%
English
+
8.3%
Steppe_MLBA
@
0.83


14

88.8%
Icelandic
+
11.2%
Jew_Moroccan
@
0.86


15

91.3%
Icelandic
+
8.7%
Druze
@
0.9


16

86.9%
Icelandic
+
13.1%
Jew_Ashkenazi
@
0.91


17

92.3%
Icelandic
+
7.7%
Jew_Yemenite
@
0.93


18

97.4%
English
+
2.6%
Steppe_Eneolithic
@
0.94


19

66.6%
English
+
33.4%
Norwegian
@
0.96


20

69.7%
Norwegian
+
30.3%
French
@
0.96

John Doe
12-08-16, 17:13
@John Doe and Hauteville

This is interesting, don't you think?

"2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28"

That 60/40 southern European/Levant split has been proposed in academic analyses too.

Those are darn good fits.

With FTDNA you get the same split, and also the reverse, which, again, some academicians have proposed.

"6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08"

This seems better than others I've seen, but is there any reason why he has no North Italian or Tuscan reference samples? It's useless like this for us.



I've also noticed that I almost always get these type of results. As for the lack of Tuscan or North Italian samples, I don't know why that is, I think other calculators have Tuscan and N Italian samples though.

davef
12-08-16, 17:16
Yeah it did a great job figuring you out. Also, why are Northern Europeans getting 35 percent Natufian?

Hauteville
12-08-16, 17:50
@John Doe and Hauteville

This is interesting, don't you think?

"2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28"

That 60/40 southern European/Levant split has been proposed in academic analyses too.

Those are darn good fits.

With FTDNA you get the same split, and also the reverse, which, again, some academicians have proposed.

"6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08"

This seems better than others I've seen, but is there any reason why he has no North Italian or Tuscan reference samples? It's useless like this for us.


Yeah it looks like the recent study of Xue et al. Anyway there is the lack of many populations for his Oracle, not just Tuscans and North Italians but even Portuguese, Germans, Austrians, Islander and Anatolian Greeks and other Euro ethnicities.

Angela
12-08-16, 18:36
If you ran the program, you must have seen this:

"For a discussion on the various ancient genomes used here, please refer to the following papers:

The genetic structure of the world's first farmers, Lazaridis et al, 2016. http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311
The genetic history of Ice Age Europe, Fu et al, 2016, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v534/n7606/full/nature17993.html
Early Neolithic genomes from the eastern Fertile Crescent, Broushaki et al, 2016, http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2016/07/13/science.aaf7943<


Clones of various ancients were utilized to help form some of the clusters, and make results somewhat consistent with results obtained using formal methods such as qpAdm.

A brief description of the calculator's components:

Ancestral North Eurasian (ANE): Upper-Paleolithic genomes from the Lake Baikal region of Siberia, identified as Malta, Afontogora 2, and Afontogora 3, dated to 17 to 24 kya, when Mammoths roamed the area, form the ANE cluster.

Ancestral South Eurasian (ASE): This component is maximized in the Andamanese and Australian Aboriginals. These Eastern non-Africans are believed to have split from other out-of-African populations over 50 kya, and some related populations (ASI), are believed to have played a role in the ethnogenisis of South Asians.

E Asian: This component is maximized in groups such as the Han and Dai.

Natufian: This was an Epipaleolithic culture that existed from 12,500 to 9,500 BC in the area of Israel. They were derived about 50% from an original Out-of-Africa population, referred to as Basal Eurasians. If you are a European and show Natufian admixture, this does not imply that Natufians interacted with your ancestors. All it means is that Natufian like admixture was mediated to you via intermediaries, such as the early European Farmers from the Near East.

Western European Hunter Gatherers (WHG): This component maximizes in ancient samples known as Villabruna, La Brana, Bichon, Loschbour, and Hungarian KO1, also collectively referred to as WHG.

Sub-Saharan: Various African populations such as Yoruba and Esan were used to source the allele frequencies for this component."

So, ANE would have come to you with EHG, CHG in both Anatolians and Indo-Europeans, etc.

Natufian would have come into Europe with Anatolian farmers, and also some Copper Age movements, depending on the area in Europe, and also a little bit with Indo-Europeans, given they picked up some "Old Europe" ancestry.

Some Northwestern Europeans are getting 38,39. I would bet more central European types like central/southern Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, will get 40 or slightly above.

Southern Europeans will get mid-to-high 40s to 50, 51, which makes perfect sense.

It's very helpful that he gave this explanation.

davef
12-08-16, 19:12
That makes sense, thanks!
Oh and hauteville + angela, jews are .5 Levantine .35 south euro .15 west and euro by the Xue study, not 60-40 south euro-Levantine. Sorry for digressing from the topic.

Twilight
12-08-16, 19:12
If you ran the program, you must have seen this:

"For a discussion on the various ancient genomes used here, please refer to the following papers:

The genetic structure of the world's first farmers, Lazaridis et al, 2016. http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311
The genetic history of Ice Age Europe, Fu et al, 2016, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v534/n7606/full/nature17993.html
Early Neolithic genomes from the eastern Fertile Crescent, Broushaki et al, 2016, http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2016/07/13/science.aaf7943<


Clones of various ancients were utilized to help form some of the clusters, and make results somewhat consistent with results obtained using formal methods such as qpAdm.

A brief description of the calculator's components:

Ancestral North Eurasian (ANE): Upper-Paleolithic genomes from the Lake Baikal region of Siberia, identified as Malta, Afontogora 2, and Afontogora 3, dated to 17 to 24 kya, when Mammoths roamed the area, form the ANE cluster.

Ancestral South Eurasian (ASE): This component is maximized in the Andamanese and Australian Aboriginals. These Eastern non-Africans are believed to have split from other out-of-African populations over 50 kya, and some related populations (ASI), are believed to have played a role in the ethnogenisis of South Asians.

E Asian: This component is maximized in groups such as the Han and Dai.

Natufian: This was an Epipaleolithic culture that existed from 12,500 to 9,500 BC in the area of Israel. They were derived about 50% from an original Out-of-Africa population, referred to as Basal Eurasians. If you are a European and show Natufian admixture, this does not imply that Natufians interacted with your ancestors. All it means is that Natufian like admixture was mediated to you via intermediaries, such as the early European Farmers from the Near East.

Western European Hunter Gatherers (WHG): This component maximizes in ancient samples known as Villabruna, La Brana, Bichon, Loschbour, and Hungarian KO1, also collectively referred to as WHG.

Sub-Saharan: Various African populations such as Yoruba and Esan were used to source the allele frequencies for this component."

So, ANE would have come to you with EHG, CHG in both Anatolians and Indo-Europeans, etc.

Natufian would have come into Europe with Anatolian farmers, and also some Copper Age movements, depending on the area in Europe, and also a little bit with Indo-Europeans, given they picked up some "Old Europe" ancestry.

Some Northwestern Europeans are getting 38,39. I would bet more central European types like central/southern Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, will get 40 or slightly above.

Southern Europeans will get mid-to-high 40s to 50, 51, which makes perfect sense.

It's very helpful that he gave this explanation.





What about Mesolithic Anatolian/Zagros Mountain tribes, are they included into the Natufian samples?

Fire Haired14
12-08-16, 19:46
@John Doe and Hauteville

This is interesting, don't you think?

"2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28"

That 60/40 southern European/Levant split has been proposed in academic analyses too.

Those are darn good fits.

With FTDNA you get the same split, and also the reverse, which, again, some academicians have proposed.

"6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08"

This seems better than others I've seen, but is there any reason why he has no North Italian or Tuscan reference samples? It's useless like this for us.



Muslim Levanties are a bad reference for Iron age Jews because they have extra African ancestry. Religious minorities like Druze and Samartians and Christians are better references. Muslims still can work though.

Sile
12-08-16, 19:55
The program has pin-pointed myself in the 4 population ...........

gedrosia K6 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 43.33
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 35.70
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.66


Finished reading population data. 136 populations found.
6 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian @ 2.735283
2 Romanian @ 3.874132
3 Albanian @ 4.668196
4 Greek @ 5.597648
5 Croatian @ 7.277499
6 Sicilian @ 8.948083
7 Spanish @ 9.762009
8 Italian_South @ 10.042373
9 Hungarian @ 10.336728
10 French @ 10.653173
11 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 11.233868
12 Czech @ 12.551389
13 English @ 12.764177
14 Ukrainian @ 13.358443
15 Scottish @ 13.787315
16 Norwegian @ 14.155935
17 Jew_Moroccan @ 15.594926
18 Armenia_ChL @ 15.976079
19 Icelandic @ 16.279020
20 Basque @ 16.574711

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% Lithuanian @ 1.804555


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% French +25% Georgian +25% Spanish @ 1.297227


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Anatolia_N + EHG + Europe_EN + Europe_EN @ 0.000000
2 Basque + Georgian + Greek + Icelandic @ 0.914001


I can stop looking for my ancient ancestors!

Hauteville
12-08-16, 19:59
Actually Muslims and Christian Levantines are genetically very similar if you look at the spreadsheets. I think Samaritans are the better proxy though.

Fire Haired14
12-08-16, 20:00
My results. This is an impressive test but an important piece it is missing is a CHG/Iran_Neo ancestor. CHG/Iran_Neo wasn't a Natufian+ANE mix. Until we figure out what Basal Eurasian is and what the non-Basal Eurasian side of Stone age Middle Easterners was, I don't fully trust any of these tests that attempt to deceiver that. The numbers are probably mostly correct but the ancestor proxies are definitly not mostly correct. This test is claiming Neolithic Anatolains were Natufian+WHG, which they definitly were not. Maybe they were Natufian-distant relative+WHG-distant relative.

We have an incredible collection of ancient European and Middle Eastern genomes. All modern day West Eurasians can be explained well as a mixture of Paleo/Early Neo West Eurasian genomes. That's how good of a collection we have. ADMIXTURE tests should stick to those ancestors and not try to predicte who the unsampled Upper Paleolithic ancestors were.

There's WHG-like ancestry in all four of the ancestors of modern Westy Eurasians, but that WHG-like ancestor wasn't WHG. WHG of Western Europe was a very drifted population with no one like them anywhere else in the world. The huge WHG numbers in so many ADMIXTURE tests is decphing. Actual Western European WHG ancestry percentages peak probably at just 15-20% in Lithuania. WHG of Western Europe were essentially wiped out. Most of the WHG-like ancestry in modern Europeans is from EEF and EHG. Over 70% of the ancestor of all Europeans is from Neolithic Anatolia(EEF) and Mesolithic Russia(EHG).

Ancestral_North_Eurasian 15.17
Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.77
East_Asian 2.65
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 41.71
Natufian 37.53
Sub_Saharan 2.17


1 71.7% Spanish + 28.3% Russian @ 1.42
2 73.2% Spanish + 26.8% Finnish @ 1.78
3 75.7% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.3% Motala12 @ 2.28
4 91.5% Hungarian + 8.5% Saharawi @ 2.31
5 60.1% Levant_BA + 39.9% SHG @ 2.33
6 90.6% Hungarian + 9.4% Algerian @ 2.37
7 75.1% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.9% SHG @ 2.4
8 85.7% Spanish + 14.3% Steppe_IA @ 2.51
9 96.5% French + 3.5% Cambodian @ 2.51
10 80.9% Basque + 19.1% Tajik @ 2.55
11 91.7% Hungarian + 8.3% Moroccan @ 2.57
12 95.4% French + 4.6% Somali @ 2.57
13 96.3% French + 3.7% Sherpa @ 2.57
14 69.9% Jew_Tunisian + 30.1% Motala12 @ 2.59
15 96.8% French + 3.2% Tibetan @ 2.59
16 96.1% French + 3.9% Kusunda @ 2.59
17 60.9% Levant_BA + 39.1% Motala12 @ 2.6
18 97% French + 3% Ami @ 2.61
19 96.9% French + 3.1% Mongola @ 2.62
20 97% French + 3% Han @ 2.62

davef
12-08-16, 20:38
My results. This is an impressive test but an important piece it is missing is a CHG/Iran_Neo ancestor. CHG/Iran_Neo wasn't a Natufian+ANE mix. Until we figure out what Basal Eurasian is and what the non-Basal Eurasian side of Stone age Middle Easterners was, I don't fully trust any of these tests that attempt to deceiver that. The numbers are probably mostly correct but the ancestor proxies are definitly not mostly correct. This test is claiming Neolithic Anatolains were Natufian+WHG, which they definitly were not. Maybe they were Natufian-distant relative+WHG-distant relative.

We have an incredible collection of ancient European and Middle Eastern genomes. All modern day West Eurasians can be explained well as a mixture of Paleo/Early Neo West Eurasian genomes. That's how good of a collection we have. ADMIXTURE tests should stick to those ancestors and not try to predicte who the unsampled Upper Paleolithic ancestors were.

There's WHG-like ancestry in all four of the ancestors of modern Westy Eurasians, but that WHG-like ancestor wasn't WHG. WHG of Western Europe was a very drifted population with no one like them anywhere else in the world. The huge WHG numbers in so many ADMIXTURE tests is decphing. Actual Western European WHG ancestry percentages peak probably at just 15-20% in Lithuania. WHG of Western Europe were essentially wiped out. Most of the WHG-like ancestry in modern Europeans is from EEF and EHG. Over 70% of the ancestor of all Europeans is from Neolithic Anatolia(EEF) and Mesolithic Russia(EHG).

Ancestral_North_Eurasian 15.17
Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.77
East_Asian 2.65
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 41.71
Natufian 37.53
Sub_Saharan 2.17


1 71.7% Spanish + 28.3% Russian @ 1.42
2 73.2% Spanish + 26.8% Finnish @ 1.78
3 75.7% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.3% Motala12 @ 2.28
4 91.5% Hungarian + 8.5% Saharawi @ 2.31
5 60.1% Levant_BA + 39.9% SHG @ 2.33
6 90.6% Hungarian + 9.4% Algerian @ 2.37
7 75.1% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.9% SHG @ 2.4
8 85.7% Spanish + 14.3% Steppe_IA @ 2.51
9 96.5% French + 3.5% Cambodian @ 2.51
10 80.9% Basque + 19.1% Tajik @ 2.55
11 91.7% Hungarian + 8.3% Moroccan @ 2.57
12 95.4% French + 4.6% Somali @ 2.57
13 96.3% French + 3.7% Sherpa @ 2.57
14 69.9% Jew_Tunisian + 30.1% Motala12 @ 2.59
15 96.8% French + 3.2% Tibetan @ 2.59
16 96.1% French + 3.9% Kusunda @ 2.59
17 60.9% Levant_BA + 39.1% Motala12 @ 2.6
18 97% French + 3% Ami @ 2.61
19 96.9% French + 3.1% Mongola @ 2.62
20 97% French + 3% Han @ 2.62

Your oracle results don't make sense

Regio X
12-08-16, 21:14
Here we go.

Italian (north)

Population - Father's / Mother's / Mine - 23andMe / Mine - FTDNA

Ancestral_North_Eurasian - 18.51 / 19.49 / 20.75 / 20.52
Ancestral_South_Eurasian - 1.00 / 0 / 0 / 0
East_Asian - 0 / 0.11 / 0 / 0
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer - 35.72 / 37.37 / 34.63 / 35.10
Natufian - 44.78 / 42.46 / 44.53 / 44.38
Sub_Saharan - 0 / 0.57 / 0.08 / 0

1 Bulgarian 2.99 / Romanian 2.16 / Albanian 3.57 / Bulgarian 3.45
2 Albanian / Bulgarian / Bulgarian / Albanian
3 Romanian / Croatian / Greek / Greek
4 Greek / Albanian / Romanian / Romanian
5 Croatian / Greek / Sicilian / Sicilian

Angela
12-08-16, 21:28
These tests only really work for people with all four ancestors from one place. They're particularly not going to work for Americans with ancestry from disparate parts of Europe and even some SSA and Amerindian.

@Hauteville,
People keep forgetting that there actually isn't much difference between Muslim Lebanese and Christian Lebanese, nor that Christian Lebanese also have some SSA, as do the Durze.

As for the rest, nobody knows what happened between the Levant Bronze Age and the Roman Era as far as Judean Jews are concerned, or what happened after, so all this certitude is misplaced. The Jews of Palestine in the Roman Era might well have been Levant Bronze Age "like" (who clustered with Saudis) for all we know, or perhaps were more modern Jordanian like, or more Cypriot like, or whatever. We have to wait and see.

My goodness, if some of you are great with a crystal ball, give us the Lotto numbers. :)

As for the Samaritans, I've suggested using them at times, but they're not a perfect proxy either, as the Jews claimed that they were half "Assyrian" settlers, or at least they claimed half their ancestry was from settlers brought into the area by Assyrians. Of course, who knows if the Judeans picked up some "Babylonian" ancestry as well during their captivity, or some SSA in Egypt, or any number of other scenarios.

As to Xue, I knew what you meant. Xue et al is only the last in a series of academic studies that have attempted to put a percentage on Southern European and Middle Eastern admixture in Ashkenzim.

Harry Ostrer reviews the history of populations genetics with regards to the Jews in his paper, and concludes that numerous studies have shown that "A high degree of European admixture (30–60 %) was observed among Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Italian and Syrian Jews."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543766/

@Regio,

As I said, guys, as refers to Natufian...

"Some Northwestern Europeans as above are getting 38, 39. I would bet more central European types like central/southern Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, will get 40 or slightly above.

Southern Europeans will get mid-to-high 40s to 50, 51, which makes perfect sense."

Despite it being the life's work of some anthrofora types to draw huge distinctions between Europeans, what are we talking about here? The extremes of Europe in terms of Natufian run from 35 to close to 50. Big whoops...

Fire Haired14
12-08-16, 21:29
Actually Muslims and Christian Levantines are genetically very similar if you look at the spreadsheets. I think Samaritans are the better proxy though.

You're right. Levantie Muslims and Christians are slightly different because Muslims have a few perecrnt more African ancestry. The Levante ancestors of Jews didn't have this extra African ancestry, so when they are modeled as Levante Muslim+European their European percentage of ancestry is exaggerated.

Promenade
12-08-16, 22:40
#


Population
Percent


1

West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
44.45



2
Natufian
35.46


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
17.25


4
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
2.84




Finished reading population data. 136 populations found.
6 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish @ 2.789396
2 English @ 2.877578
3 Czech @ 3.094326
4 Hungarian @ 3.206155
5 French @ 3.803198
6 Ukrainian @ 4.002460
7 Norwegian @ 4.169715
8 Icelandic @ 5.381115
9 Croatian @ 5.458343
10 Europe_LNBA @ 6.254353
11 Spanish @ 8.308710
12 Estonian @ 8.363054
13 Lithuanian @ 9.138882
14 Basque @ 9.191294
15 Romanian @ 9.352397
16 Bulgarian @ 11.122505
17 Russian @ 11.704102
18 Finnish @ 11.865152
19 Steppe_MLBA @ 12.735702
20 Albanian @ 15.874808

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% Scottish @ 2.298908


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sardinian +25% Scottish +25% Steppe_Eneolithic @ 1.307264


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Levant_N + Motala12 + Scottish + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.540532
2 Motala12 + Natufian + Scottish + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.540532
3 English + Levant_N + Motala12 + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.733838
4 English + Motala12 + Natufian + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.733838

I have to say this test seems pretty accurate. It's always interesting to see how much better they can group me using the ancient populations, my guess is because some Americans are just a mix of too many European populations in such varying proportions that using modern groups inst flexible enough.


@Twilight
I'm also surprised how similar our results are considering how your DNAland results had a decent amount more Northwest European than me and I had much more Balkan. I'm guessing the 2.84 percent ASE pulls me southeast a long way. We talked about the Papuan I received in another GedMatch test, but nothing ever showed up in 23andMe or AncestryDNA, I wonder what it actually is. I'm convinced there is something shifting me southward and to the east now since my FTDNA results also gave me 8 percent Mid eastern but also considerably more Scandinavian, I guess some tests try to compensate for it somehow.

Sile
13-08-16, 01:44
Natufian would have come into Europe with Anatolian farmers, and also some Copper Age movements, depending on the area in Europe, and also a little bit with Indo-Europeans, given they picked up some "Old Europe" ancestry.

Some Northwestern Europeans are getting 38,39. I would bet more central European types like central/southern Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, will get 40 or slightly above.

Southern Europeans will get mid-to-high 40s to 50, 51, which makes perfect sense.

It's very helpful that he gave this explanation.




agree

thanks

Twilight
13-08-16, 02:39
My results. This is an impressive test but an important piece it is missing is a CHG/Iran_Neo ancestor. CHG/Iran_Neo wasn't a Natufian+ANE mix. Until we figure out what Basal Eurasian is and what the non-Basal Eurasian side of Stone age Middle Easterners was, I don't fully trust any of these tests that attempt to deceiver that. The numbers are probably mostly correct but the ancestor proxies are definitly not mostly correct. This test is claiming Neolithic Anatolains were Natufian+WHG, which they definitly were not. Maybe they were Natufian-distant relative+WHG-distant relative.

We have an incredible collection of ancient European and Middle Eastern genomes. All modern day West Eurasians can be explained well as a mixture of Paleo/Early Neo West Eurasian genomes. That's how good of a collection we have. ADMIXTURE tests should stick to those ancestors and not try to predicte who the unsampled Upper Paleolithic ancestors were.

There's WHG-like ancestry in all four of the ancestors of modern Westy Eurasians, but that WHG-like ancestor wasn't WHG. WHG of Western Europe was a very drifted population with no one like them anywhere else in the world. The huge WHG numbers in so many ADMIXTURE tests is decphing. Actual Western European WHG ancestry percentages peak probably at just 15-20% in Lithuania. WHG of Western Europe were essentially wiped out. Most of the WHG-like ancestry in modern Europeans is from EEF and EHG. Over 70% of the ancestor of all Europeans is from Neolithic Anatolia(EEF) and Mesolithic Russia(EHG).

Ancestral_North_Eurasian 15.17
Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.77
East_Asian 2.65
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 41.71
Natufian 37.53
Sub_Saharan 2.17


1 71.7% Spanish + 28.3% Russian @ 1.42
2 73.2% Spanish + 26.8% Finnish @ 1.78
3 75.7% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.3% Motala12 @ 2.28
4 91.5% Hungarian + 8.5% Saharawi @ 2.31
5 60.1% Levant_BA + 39.9% SHG @ 2.33
6 90.6% Hungarian + 9.4% Algerian @ 2.37
7 75.1% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.9% SHG @ 2.4
8 85.7% Spanish + 14.3% Steppe_IA @ 2.51
9 96.5% French + 3.5% Cambodian @ 2.51
10 80.9% Basque + 19.1% Tajik @ 2.55
11 91.7% Hungarian + 8.3% Moroccan @ 2.57
12 95.4% French + 4.6% Somali @ 2.57
13 96.3% French + 3.7% Sherpa @ 2.57
14 69.9% Jew_Tunisian + 30.1% Motala12 @ 2.59
15 96.8% French + 3.2% Tibetan @ 2.59
16 96.1% French + 3.9% Kusunda @ 2.59
17 60.9% Levant_BA + 39.1% Motala12 @ 2.6
18 97% French + 3% Ami @ 2.61
19 96.9% French + 3.1% Mongola @ 2.62
20 97% French + 3% Han @ 2.62



#
Population
Percent


1
CHG_EEF
43.92


2
EHG
18.47


3
SHG_WHG
15.94


4
ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC
12.28


5
IRAN_NEOLITHIC
4.65


6
NATUFIAN
3.29


7
ANCESTRAL_INDIAN
1.25


8
SUB_SAHARAN
0.17


9
SIBERIAN
0.03


Neolithic K13 admixture (2nd most recent)
-------------------------------------------
Eurasia K6 (recent)



#
Population
Percent


1
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
45.4


2
Natufian
35.22


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian


After doing some playing around with mathematics it seems that my "Neolithic K13 (CHG-EEF + SHG-WHG + Anatolia_Neolithic + Iran_Neolithic + Natufian + Ancestral_Indian = 81.63%) is not too far apart from my Gedrosia K6 (WEHG + Natufian = 80.62)

With only 1% differnce between the two results, it seems like GedrosiaDNA hardly changed any percentage, but instead the company simplified his samples.


But yes, if Neo-Iran/ENF samples are added back into the mix perhaps we'll see some changes to our genomes. :)
19.17

davef
13-08-16, 04:07
I wouldn't be so sure of that angela. The max difference between europeans of the extreme south and north could be greater than 15 percent.some of the whg that extreme Southern Europeans get could be exclusive to them and not show up at all in northerners. I could apply that to the Turkish as well.

Hauteville
13-08-16, 10:13
Natufian according to the description of the calculator was implied by EEF.


Natufian: This was an Epipaleolithic culture that existed from 12,500 to 9,500 BC in the area of Israel. They were derived about 50% from an original Out-of-Africa population, referred to as Basal Eurasians. If you are a European and show Natufian admixture, this does not imply that Natufians interacted with your ancestors. All it means is that Natufian like admixture was mediated to you via intermediaries, such as the early European Farmers from the Near East.

Angela
13-08-16, 15:17
Davef:I wouldn't be so sure of that angela. The max difference between europeans of the extreme south and north could be greater than 15 percent.some of the whg that extreme Southern Europeans get could be exclusive to them and not show up at all in northerners. I could apply that to the Turkish as well.

What?

We don't have to guess what the WHG score in this calculator is based on, because the creator has put it into black and white. It's based on the following collection of ancient genomes.


Western European Hunter Gatherers (WHG): This component maximizes in ancient samples known as Villabruna, La Brana, Bichon, Loschbour, and Hungarian KO1, also collectively referred to as WHG.

citizen of the world
13-08-16, 20:46
FTDNA:

Population
Ancestral_North_Eurasian 8.93
Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.69
East_Asian -
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 9.59
Natufian 26.03
Sub_Saharan 54.76

Twilight
16-08-16, 02:55
#


Population
Percent


1

West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
44.45


2
Natufian
35.46


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
17.25


4
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
2.84




Finished reading population data. 136 populations found.
6 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish @ 2.789396
2 English @ 2.877578
3 Czech @ 3.094326
4 Hungarian @ 3.206155
5 French @ 3.803198
6 Ukrainian @ 4.002460
7 Norwegian @ 4.169715
8 Icelandic @ 5.381115
9 Croatian @ 5.458343
10 Europe_LNBA @ 6.254353
11 Spanish @ 8.308710
12 Estonian @ 8.363054
13 Lithuanian @ 9.138882
14 Basque @ 9.191294
15 Romanian @ 9.352397
16 Bulgarian @ 11.122505
17 Russian @ 11.704102
18 Finnish @ 11.865152
19 Steppe_MLBA @ 12.735702
20 Albanian @ 15.874808

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% Scottish @ 2.298908


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sardinian +25% Scottish +25% Steppe_Eneolithic @ 1.307264


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Levant_N + Motala12 + Scottish + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.540532
2 Motala12 + Natufian + Scottish + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.540532
3 English + Levant_N + Motala12 + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.733838
4 English + Motala12 + Natufian + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 0.733838

I have to say this test seems pretty accurate. It's always interesting to see how much better they can group me using the ancient populations, my guess is because some Americans are just a mix of too many European populations in such varying proportions that using modern groups inst flexible enough.


@Twilight
I'm also surprised how similar our results are considering how your DNAland results had a decent amount more Northwest European than me and I had much more Balkan. I'm guessing the 2.84 percent ASE pulls me southeast a long way. We talked about the Papuan I received in another GedMatch test, but nothing ever showed up in 23andMe or AncestryDNA, I wonder what it actually is. I'm convinced there is something shifting me southward and to the east now since my FTDNA results also gave me 8 percent Mid eastern but also considerably more Scandinavian, I guess some tests try to compensate for it somehow.


Thats interesting, I know the Thracians settled in Britannia but I doubt that the Armani settlers contributed that much into the British gene pool somewhere but I could be wrong. Other than England's Thracian immigrants, I'm not sure how else SE Europeans made it to the Isles or Germany. Perhaps thenew DNa coming up will help shed some light on the matter :)

davef
16-08-16, 14:44
Promenade,

There's no way in hell you can be 1/4 levant neolithic. You seem to score like other full blooded northerners in the thread but the calculator thinks 1/4 of your heritage is flat out Lebanese.

Fire Haired14
16-08-16, 15:03
Thats interesting, I know the Thracians settled in Britannia but I doubt that the Armani settlers contributed that much into the British gene pool somewhere but I could be wrong. Other than England's Thracian immigrants, I'm not sure how else SE Europeans made it to the Isles or Germany. Perhaps thenew DNa coming up will help shed some light on the matter :)

Romans!!! Remember the paper with Roman Gladiator(or whatever) genomes from Britain, one of them was born in the Levant. The Roman empire is a great candidate as to what pulls England slightly south of Scotland and Ireland. Also France is an outlier in Northern Europe. They're pulled much further south than England is. Southern France is similar to Spain, but the rest of France can fit as an Italian+North European mix.

Fire Haired14
16-08-16, 15:10
Promenade,

There's no way in hell you can be 1/4 levant neolithic. You seem to score like other full blooded northerners in the thread but the calculator thinks 1/4 of your heritage is flat out Lebanese.

40% or more of the ancestry of his ancestry is from people closely related to the Levant Neolithic(Anatolia Neolithic). If you read discussion on this forum you should know this. Modern day Lebanese in analysis I've seen are like 60% Levant Neolithic. Levant Neolithic wasn't the same as modern Levanties.

davef
16-08-16, 15:46
Oh right, I remember you saying in your d stat thread that levant neo is very close to Anatolian, it just has a bit more sub Saharan.

Also in response to people from England having roman heritage, Winston Churchill looks italian :)

Promenade
16-08-16, 18:51
Thats interesting, I know the Thracians settled in Britannia but I doubt that the Armani settlers contributed that much into the British gene pool somewhere but I could be wrong. Other than England's Thracian immigrants, I'm not sure how else SE Europeans made it to the Isles or Germany. Perhaps thenew DNa coming up will help shed some light on the matter :)

I dont have any ancestors from England though and my AncestryDNA test claims I have >1 percent ancestry from Great Britain so I dont think it has anything to do with Thracians, but I appreciate the response I did not know they reached England. Also Thracian's would have brought more EEF ancestry which I am relatively low in according to this test, I'm wondering where the ASE is from.




Promenade,

There's no way in hell you can be 1/4 levant neolithic. You seem to score like other full blooded northerners in the thread but the calculator thinks 1/4 of your heritage is flat out Lebanese.

Davef it makes complete sense, look at all the people with North European ancestry here. They all score Natufian between 30-40 percent. Northern Europeans derive around 3/8's of their ancestry from the EFF and Natufian is essentially filling in for them in this test. The 4 population approximation uses ancient groups to help make sense of your ancestry, Levant Neolithic is filling in for about 1/4 of my EEF derived ancestry in their approximation. Meanwhile Motala12 is filling in for much of the WHG ancestry and Steppe-eneolithic for Yamnaya. Of course EEF=/=Natufian=/=EEF but I'm generalizing here.

Also fire haired is correct when he says Levant Neolithic is not the same as the modern Lebanese. There was a Bronze age change in the area that shifted ancestry in the Levant away from the Neolithic Levantines. When I glance at PCA's, Levant Neolithic seems to group much more closely to various ethnic jewish populations.




Romans!!! Remember the paper with Roman Gladiator(or whatever) genomes from Britain, one of them was born in the Levant. The Roman empire is a great candidate as to what pulls England slightly south of Scotland and Ireland. Also France is an outlier in Northern Europe. They're pulled much further south than England is. Southern France is similar to Spain, but the rest of France can fit as an Italian+North European mix.

I remember this, but if we are talking about my case in particular then it wouldn't make sense since I dont have ancestry from England. I also have a relatively low amount of Natufian and the highest amount of WHG out of everyone who's posted so far so I dont think it was an EEF population. I'm more curious about where the relativity large amount of ASE I have came from.

Angela
16-08-16, 20:39
Just to reiterate Promenade's point: "Near Eastern" ancestry got to England way before the Romans or the Thracians. I think some of you need to review the major genetics papers of the last couple of years.

The percentage for all northern Europeans for Levant Neolithic in this calculator ranges from 30-40%. It stands forthe Neolithic farmer ancestry of the Near East which came into Europe. (Of course then we have the Near Eastern ancestry which came in with the Indo-Europeans) Central Europe probably gets a little higher. The northern Italians seems to be getting 43-44%. Some southern Italians might get 50%.

All perfectly normal and understandable. I've been saying the same things since dna forums when there was no ancient dna, on23andme forums, and now here, and some of you still don't get it.

Some of you also are reading these calculators far too literally. If someone gets Spanish and Armenoid, for example, it doesn't mean they recently had an ancestor from Iran or Armenia. Really, people.

@Fire-Haired,
There's a lot of variation in France which hasn't been explored because of the restrictions on genetic testing, although generally it's certainly true that France plots south of England. From everything I've seen I wouldn't be at all surprised if the eastern French aren't very similar to the western Germans. The Bretons are probably indeed very close to the English, perhaps the people of Normandie as well. The only "southern" French samples we have are from southwestern France, although given the known history I would think the people from around Perpignan also would veer toward Spaniards. We don't know about southeastern France but I would think they might be a little close to Ligurians and Piemontese. So, it depends.

As to why England shifted south, it might have something to do with Roman rule, but we have to get some "Roman" ydna to see. Also, from the time of the Conqueror on, French men came into England from various provinces of France to make their fortune. We think in nation state terms. They didn't. I doubt that a nobleman like Enguerrand de Coucy would have comprehended what someone was talking about if he were asked was he English or French. He was a nobleman who owned property in both countries. The same was true of many aristocrats, who would have brought lesser lords and retainers from many parts of France. French born "English" queens likewise brought retainers from various parts of France.

This is an excellent book on Enguerrand de Coucy by Barbara Tuchman:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/568236.A_Distant_Mirror

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enguerrand_VII,_Lord_of_Coucy

Eleanor of Provence, Queen of England:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_of_Provence

She was much hated by Londoners because of the many "Savoyards" she brought with her.

These are just illustrations of the larger phenomenon.

Oh, as to Levant Neolithic, please show me how you arrive at the conclusion that it has more SSA than Natufians. The gene flow into the Levant after the Natufian era seems to be from the Anatolian Neolithic according to your fellow modelers. The Levant Bronze Age is another story.

@Promenade,
When you say relatively large ASE percentage, to whom are you comparing yourself, and how much larger is it? Given the admixture that went into the steppe populations and then into Europe, some trace amounts shouldn't be surprising. On 23andme I consistently got .2 Korean, my only non-west Eurasian admixture, and I think it's also probably a stand in for some East Eurasian that came in with the Indo-Europeans, particularly given my mtDna U2e.

I suppose there's always a chance of some unknown gypsy or South Asian heritage, but it would just as well be chance inheritance from Indo-Europeans.


@davef,
I'm trying to think if I've ever heard anything more absurd in terms of phenotype analysis than Winston Churchill looking Italian as a first choice...no, I haven't. Have you ever set foot in either Italy or England? I assure you this facial structure is more common in England and Germany than in Italy...too "soft". That isn't to say that there aren't some people in Italy who have it.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02547/churchill--getty_2547624b.jpg

Promenade
16-08-16, 23:28
@Promenade,
When you say relatively large ASE percentage, to whom are you comparing yourself, and how much larger is it? Given the admixture that went into the steppe populations and then into Europe, some trace amounts shouldn't be surprising. On 23andme I consistently got .2 Korean, my only non-west Eurasian admixture, and I think it's also probably a stand in for some East Eurasian that came in with the Indo-Europeans, particularly given my mtDna U2e.

I suppose there's always a chance of some unknown gypsy or South Asian heritage, but it would just as well be chance inheritance from Indo-Europeans.

I would say a relatively large percentage of ASE compared to the average North European. I also have the highest ASE percentage out of everyone here so far at 2.84 percent, meanwhile not one other person has exceeded more than 1 percent here other than me. 23andMe and AncestryDNA dont show any hints of it, they seem completely normal but FTDNA and DNAland have something pulling me south east. I receive 8 percent Anatolian And Caucuses from FTDNA and 23 percent Balkan on DNAland when neither show up at all in 23andMe and AncestryDNA. My guess is the ASE is shifting me for these tests.

davef
17-08-16, 00:41
@Angela
I saw a few photos of him and it was probably just his expressions in those pics that made him look "Italian" maybe not full blooded, about 1/4 Italian (southern) and 3/4 British to be safe.
I wasn't taking the Oracle literally, btw.

@Promenade,
You certainly do seem a lot more east Mediterranean than expected.

davef
17-08-16, 16:21
@Angela
Also yeah in reference to the pic you posted I never would've guessed him as Mediterranean (spanish, sardinian, italian, greek, various islands or Levantine) and wouldve definitely guessed him as north european.

davef
20-08-16, 20:48
Can somebody explain this to me because it makes no sense....I just read about a basque who according to various calculators came out as half sardinian half egyptian, another one guessed him as jewish (sephardic), another one guessed him as some west asian group (Turkish i guess) and in this calculator he scored 67 percent western hunter gatherer, 17 percent Natufian, and 16 percent ANE. For someone who is as southern as "1/2 Egyptian 1/2 Sardinian" his hunter gatherer score is awfully high (higher than most if not all north euros by a lot) and his Natufian score is puny, about half of what an Irish person would get. I'm not taking the oracles literally but anyone who gets .5 sardinian .5 egyptian should score Natufian through the roof.

Angela
20-08-16, 21:43
For one thing, all calculators aren't equal. If, despite all warnings not to take these very seriously in terms of the multi-population functions, you decide to look at them, I really think you need to stick to those that have ancient samples included, which means very recent ones. Kurd is particularly careful in doing them, so perhaps his most recent calculator results for a Basque person would be more informative.

davef
20-08-16, 22:37
I guess they examine different areas of the genome? And aren't Basques more isolated so they get patterns that aren't usually found in most other groups? Hence why this individual scored eastern mediteranean in one calculator and insanely northern in this one?

Tomenable
16-09-16, 00:58
My results:

Ancient Eurasia K6 Admixture Proportions:



1
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
43.79


2
Natufian
34.21


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
20.69


4
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
1.00


5
East_Asian
0.31

Azzurro
24-09-16, 00:02
MyResults (ftdna)

Ancestry: Father (province of Potenza, Basilicata) and Mother (province of Agrigento, Sicilia)

Here are my results.

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
Natufian
49.64


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
29.33


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
18.01


4
Sub_Saharan
3.02









Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian @ 1.701417
2 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 2.640211
3 Italian_South @ 2.939693
4 Greek @ 4.619377
5 Albanian @ 5.655882
6 Jew_Moroccan @ 6.363410
7 Jew_Libyan @ 7.693129
8 Jew_Tunisian @ 8.698251
9 Bulgarian @ 10.453441
10 Armenia_ChL @ 12.009364
11 Romanian @ 12.217484
12 Cypriot @ 12.628228
13 Turkish @ 15.538264
14 Spanish @ 15.631703
15 Croatian @ 16.040396
16 Lebanese @ 16.344213
17 Druze @ 16.779308
18 Jordanian @ 16.994999
19 Syrian @ 17.216311
20 Palestinian @ 17.319225

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian +50% Jew_Moroccan @ 1.303951

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian +25% Jew_Libyan +25% Jew_Moroccan @ 1.238990

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Italian_South + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Moroccan + Spanish @ 0.917557
2 Albanian + Italian_South + Jew_Yemenite + Spanish @ 0.992575
3 Italian_South + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Tunisian + Spanish @ 1.063880
4 Albanian + Jew_Yemenite + Sicilian + Spanish @ 1.073460
5 Italian_South + Jew_Libyan + Jew_Moroccan + Spanish @ 1.111087
6 Albanian + Italian_South + Saudi + Spanish @ 1.167838
7 BedouinA + English + Europe_EN + Georgian @ 1.174063
8 Albanian + Cypriot + Jew_Libyan + Spanish @ 1.176999
9 Albanian + English + Jew_Libyan + Levant_BA @ 1.181866
10 Basque + Italian_South + Jew_Yemenite + Sicilian @ 1.209549

I only used the first 10 of the 4 mixed mode populations.

Dibran
09-10-16, 02:47
What does out all mean basil. Lol

Ancestry: Father (Mirdita, Diber/Martanesh, Albania) and Mother (Puka, Albania, & Cameria)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 45.55
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 36.04
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.15
4 East_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Albanian. 2.93
2 Bulgarian 3.86
3 Romanian 4.71
4 Greek 4.75
5 Sicilian 7.79
6 Croatian 8.28
7 Spanish 8.58
8 Italian_South 8.91
9 Jew_Ashkenazi 10.02
10 French 10.98
11 Hungarian 11.48
12 English 13.79
13 Czech 13.81
14 Sardinian 14.27
15 Jew_Moroccan 14.55
16 Ukrainian 15.05
17 Scottish 15.05
18 Basque 15.44
19 Norwegian 15.74
20 Jew_Libyan 15.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.4% Europe_EN + 17.6% MA1 @ 0.69
2 82.4% Europe_EN + 17.6% AG2 @ 0.69
3 82.4% Europe_EN + 17.6% AG3 @ 0.69
4 55.3% Italian_South + 44.7% French @ 1.04
5 90.1% Italian_South + 9.9% Hungarian_KO1 @ 1.05
6 90.1% Italian_South + 9.9% WHG @ 1.05
7 80.4% Albanian + 19.6% French @ 1.23
8 77.1% Greek + 22.9% Basque @ 1.29
9 96.8% Albanian + 3.2% Hungarian_KO1 @ 1.29
10 96.8% Albanian + 3.2% WHG @ 1.29
11 59.6% Anatolia_N + 40.4% Steppe_EMBA @ 1.32
12 85.6% Albanian + 14.4% Basque @ 1.36
13 84.2% Albanian + 15.8% English @ 1.39
14 96.4% Albanian + 3.6% Motala12 @ 1.41
15 64.4% Basque + 35.6% Georgian @ 1.43
16 96.4% Albanian + 3.6% SHG @ 1.45
17 87.4% Albanian + 12.6% Icelandic @ 1.46
18 64.7% Basque + 35.3% Assyrian @ 1.47
19 76.4% Albanian + 23.6% Croatian @ 1.49
20 84.5% Albanian +

Valerius
30-10-16, 23:05
Bulgarian/Vlach ancestry:



Ancestral_North_Eurasian

20.12






Ancestral_South_Eurasian
1.38





East_Asian
0.51





West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
35.81





Natufian
42.17





Sub_Saharan
-




1


Bulgarian
1.65


2
Romanian
2.84


3
Albanian
5.52


4
Croatian
6.28


5
Greek
6.42


6
Spanish
9.23


7
Hungarian
9.29


8
Sicilian
9.73


9
French
9.77


10
Italian_South
11.03


11
Czech
11.62


12
English
11.85


13
Jew_Ashkenazi
11.88


14
Ukrainian
12.37


15
Scottish
12.79


16
Norwegian
13.24


17
Icelandic
15.37


18
Basque
15.82


19
Europe_LNBA
16.12


20
Armenia_ChL
16.24

Seanp
26-11-16, 00:31
Hungarian results from Transylvania:

#


Population
Percent


1
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
41


2
Natufian
37.35


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
14.54


4
East_Asian
5.8


5
Sub_Saharan
0.67


6
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
0.64




#


Population
Percent


1
Natufian
37.96


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
37.83


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
18.26


4
East_Asian
4.75


5
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
1.2



#


Population
Percent


1
Natufian
38.71


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
36.1


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
19.77


4
East_Asian
3.98


5
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
1.45



Other results including relative matches of different ethnic groups:

Romanian:

#


Population
Percent


1
Natufian
37.31


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
37.02


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
19.76


4
East_Asian
3.7


5
Sub_Saharan
1.35


6
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
0.86



Serbian:

#


Population
Percent


1
Natufian
41.32


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
38.44


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
18.41


4
East_Asian
1.83



Italian from Sicily:

#


Population
Percent


1
Natufian
50.86


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
25.32


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
18.54


4
Sub_Saharan
4.54


5
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
0.75




Sephardic Jewish:

#


Population
Percent


1
Natufian
51.1


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
25.46


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
17.87


4
Sub_Saharan
5.57




Lebanese:

#


Population
Percent


1
Natufian
54.65


2
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
22.55


3
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
18.08


4
Sub_Saharan
3.1


5
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
1.28


6
East_Asian
0.34

clarbg
10-12-16, 10:55
#


Population
Percent


1
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
43.14


2
Natufian
36.12


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
17.91


4
East_Asian
2.83

Joey D
11-12-16, 03:58
#
Population
Percent


1
Natufian
49.45


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
28.4


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
19.5


4
Sub_Saharan
2.26





#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Sicilian
1.61


2
Italian_South
1.82


3
Jew_Ashkenazi
2.3


4
Greek
4.54


5
Jew_Moroccan
5.86


6
Albanian
6.08


7
Jew_Libyan
7.73


8
Jew_Tunisian
8.33


9
Armenia_ChL
10.17


10
Bulgarian
10.77




Using 4 populations approximation:
1 English + Italian_South + Italian_South + Jew_Yemenite @ 0.796184
2 French + Italian_South + Italian_South + Jew_Yemenite @ 0.797695
3 Greek + Italian_South + Jew_Moroccan + Sicilian @ 0.822987
4 Cypriot + English + Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.840128
5 Czech + Italian_South + Italian_South + Jew_Yemenite @ 0.874920
6 Albanian + Italian_South + Italian_South + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.924199
7 Croatian + Cypriot + Italian_South + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.927489
8 Greek + Italian_South + Italian_South + Jew_Moroccan @ 0.929303
9 Croatian + Cypriot + Italian_South + Jew_Libyan @ 0.935862
10 Cypriot + French + Italian_South + Jew_Tunisian @ 0.945438

IronSide
31-12-17, 13:51
#
Population
Percent


1
Natufian
54.27


2
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
23.32


3
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
11.43


4
Sub_Saharan
7.47


5
Ancestral_South_Eurasian
3.31


6
East_Asian
0.2



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Palestinian
3.58


2
Jordanian
4.05


3
Lebanese
4.09


4
Syrian
4.14


5
Saudi
5.79


6
BedouinA
6.04


7
Jew_Yemenite
6.43


8
Druze
6.56


9
Jew_iraqi
8.49


10
Jew_Iranian
8.97


11
Assyrian
9.6


12
Cypriot
10.73


13
Levant_BA
11.91


14
Jew_Tunisian
12.02


15
Georgian
12.4


16
Egyptian
12.5


17
Jew_Libyan
13.32


18
Jew_Moroccan
13.69


19
Iranian
13.69


20
Turkish
13.86



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

58.4%
Jew_Iranian
+
41.6%
Egyptian
@
1.44


2

60.3%
BedouinA
+
39.7%
Jew_Iranian
@
1.68


3

65.9%
Jew_Iranian
+
34.1%
Libyan
@
1.69


4

84.4%
Palestinian
+
15.6%
Iran_LN
@
1.83


5

59.9%
Jew_iraqi
+
40.1%
Egyptian
@
1.87


6

59.1%
BedouinA
+
40.9%
Jew_iraqi
@
1.93


7

67.3%
Jew_iraqi
+
32.7%
Libyan
@
1.99


8

91.3%
Palestinian
+
8.7%
CHG
@
2.01


9

90.3%
Palestinian
+
9.7%
Makrani
@
2.02


10

86.7%
Palestinian
+
13.3%
Iranian_Lori
@
2.02


11

91%
Palestinian
+
9%
Brahui
@
2.04


12

77.4%
Jew_Iranian
+
22.6%
Saharawi
@
2.06


13

89.8%
Palestinian
+
10.2%
Baloch_Iranian
@
2.06


14

91.3%
Palestinian
+
8.7%
Balochi
@
2.09


15

84.3%
Palestinian
+
15.7%
Iranian_Shirazi
@
2.11


16

62.3%
BedouinA
+
37.7%
Assyrian
@
2.12


17

85.4%
Palestinian
+
14.6%
Iranian_Mazandarani
@
2.14


18

83%
Palestinian
+
17%
Kurd_C
@
2.15


19

78.4%
Jew_iraqi
+
21.6%
Saharawi
@
2.16


20

84.1%
Palestinian
+
15.9%
Kurd_F
@
2.16

Stuvanè
31-12-17, 14:22
Ancient Eurasia K6 Oracle results:gedrosia K6 Oracle


Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
Natufian
46.32


2
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
36.39


3
Ancestral_North_Eurasian
17.29



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Albanian
3.28


2
Bulgarian
4.85


3
Greek
5.21


4
Romanian
5.48


5
Sicilian
7.91


6
Spanish
8.32


7
Croatian
8.8


8
Italian_South
8.99


9
Jew_Ashkenazi
10.06


10
French
11.2


11
Hungarian
11.98


12
Sardinian
13.14


13
English
14.19


14
Czech
14.29


15
Jew_Moroccan
14.56


16
Basque
15.1


17
Scottish
15.51


18
Ukrainian
15.65


19
Jew_Libyan
15.89


20
Norwegian
16.29



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

83.4%
Europe_EN
+
16.6%
AG2
@
0.45


2

83.4%
Europe_EN
+
16.6%
AG3
@
0.45


3

83.4%
Europe_EN
+
16.6%
MA1
@
0.45


4

62.8%
Italian_South
+
37.2%
Basque
@
1.29


5

83.6%
Albanian
+
16.4%
Basque
@
1.46


6

61.7%
Anatolia_N
+
38.3%
Steppe_EMBA
@
1.46


7

90%
Italian_South
+
10%
Hungarian_KO1
@
1.57


8

90%
Italian_South
+
10%
WHG
@
1.57


9

88.7%
Croatian
+
11.3%
Levant_N
@
1.57


10

88.7%
Croatian
+
11.3%
Natufian
@
1.57


11

75.2%
Greek
+
24.8%
Basque
@
1.63


12

80.8%
Norwegian
+
19.2%
Levant_N
@
1.7


13

80.8%
Norwegian
+
19.2%
Natufian
@
1.7


14

66.1%
Basque
+
33.9%
Jew_iraqi
@
1.72


15

65.6%
Basque
+
34.4%
Assyrian
@
1.8


16

74.8%
Albanian
+
25.2%
Spanish
@
1.82


17

66%
Basque
+
34%
Jew_Iranian
@
1.86


18

52%
Spanish
+
48%
Italian_South
@
1.88


19

96.8%
Albanian
+
3.2%
Hungarian_KO1
@
1.95


20

96.8%
Albanian
+
3.2%
WHG
@
1.95

IronSide
04-01-18, 15:31
I wish there was a calculator or reference for levels of Basal Eurasian in modern populations.

Going by this calculator, if we take half the ancestry of Natufians as Basal Eurasian, then Europeans have from 15-20% BEu, and Near Easterners 25-30%, is that accurate ?

IronSide
04-01-18, 16:00
And what about Ancient North Eurasian ? Near Easterners have high levels of ANE according to this calculator (mine is 23%), unlike what is reported in this map:

http://img.index.hu/imgfrm/6/9/1/7/BIG_0013276917.png

AdeoF
04-01-18, 17:02
1 Natufian 42.08
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 40.24
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 13.16
4 Sub_Saharan 3.94
5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.58

1 Spanish 3.04
2 Romanian 7.25
3 Croatian 7.3
4 French 7.53
5 Bulgarian 8.01
6 Hungarian 9.02
7 Basque 9.66
8 Albanian 10.19
9 English 10.53
10 Czech 10.98
11 Sardinian 11.61
12 Scottish 11.81
13 Greek 12.09
14 Ukrainian 12.49
15 Norwegian 13
16 Sicilian 14.03
17 Icelandic 14.12
18 Europe_LNBA 15.33
19 Jew_Ashkenazi 15.78
20 Italian_South 15.95

IronSide
04-01-18, 17:14
1 Natufian 42.08
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 40.24
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 13.16
4 Sub_Saharan 3.94
5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.58

1 Spanish 3.04
2 Romanian 7.25
3 Croatian 7.3
4 French 7.53
5 Bulgarian 8.01
6 Hungarian 9.02
7 Basque 9.66
8 Albanian 10.19
9 English 10.53
10 Czech 10.98
11 Sardinian 11.61
12 Scottish 11.81
13 Greek 12.09
14 Ukrainian 12.49
15 Norwegian 13
16 Sicilian 14.03
17 Icelandic 14.12
18 Europe_LNBA 15.33
19 Jew_Ashkenazi 15.78
20 Italian_South 15.95

I don't think levels of Sub-Saharan are accurate for this calculator, according to it, Levant BA has 4% SSA admixture, which we know it didn't have, maybe the reference for this component include East Africans who have Levantine ancestry.

For me it seems reasonable, 8% is close enough to the 6% East African reported on other calculators.

AdeoF
04-01-18, 18:02
Hmm this calculator is really odd it's like it's 1/2 right 1/2 wrong

AdeoF
04-01-18, 18:07
I don't think levels of Sub-Saharan are accurate for this calculator, according to it, Levant BA has 4% SSA admixture, which we know it didn't have, maybe the reference for this component include East Africans who have Levantine ancestry.

For me it seems reasonable, 8% is close enough to the 6% East African reported on other calculators.

Yeah it does not feel like it and I'm from north Spain which does not make much sense. Also the Single Population Sharing is not correct expect the Spanish one.

alexfritz
05-01-18, 00:38
Population




Ancestral_North_Eurasian
15.64


Ancestral_South_Eurasian
-


East_Asian
0.42


West_European_Hunter_Gartherer
40.07


Natufian
43.87


Sub_Saharan
-



1 83.5% Icelandic + 16.5% Levant_N @ 0.22
2 83.5% Icelandic + 16.5% Natufian @ 0.22
7 87.4% Sardinian + 12.6% EHG @ 0.88
10 79.7% Lithuanian + 20.3% Natufian @ 0.98
11 79.7% Lithuanian + 20.3% Levant_N @ 0.98
16 64.2% Europe_EN + 35.8% Steppe_EMBA @ 1.2
19 82.2% Europe_LNBA + 17.8% Levant_N @ 1.23
20 82.2% Europe_LNBA + 17.8% Natufian @ 1.23

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Basque +50% Greek @ 1.000425

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Basque +25% Cypriot +25% French @ 0.931661

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Anatolia_N + Greek + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 0.676271

Angela
05-01-18, 00:41
Hmm this calculator is really odd it's like it's 1/2 right 1/2 wrong

It's ready for the trash bin, imho, like a lot of them.

davef
05-01-18, 02:13
1 83.5% Icelandic + 16.5% Levant_N @ 0.22
2 83.5% Icelandic + 16.5% Natufian @ 0.22
7 87.4% Sardinian + 12.6% EHG @ 0.88
10 79.7% Lithuanian + 20.3% Natufian @ 0.98
11 79.7% Lithuanian + 20.3% Levant_N @ 0.98
16 64.2% Europe_EN + 35.8% Steppe_EMBA @ 1.2
19 82.2% Europe_LNBA + 17.8% Levant_N @ 1.23
20 82.2% Europe_LNBA + 17.8% Natufian @ 1.23


OOOOH I see a hidden "what comes next in the series" puzzle! I love these kinds of questions!! The answer is 25 because the series follows a plus one plus 5 plus 3 pattern between each quadruplet of numbers and each number that is the previous number plus five is in italics.

1 + 1=2
2 + 5=7
7 + 3=10
10 + 1=11
11 + 5=16
16 + 3=19
19 + 1=20
20 + 5=25

AdeoF
05-01-18, 14:33
It's ready for the trash bin, imho, like a lot of them.
Yep a lot of I don't even understand too much thanks to the odd numbers of it. Anyways it really more about algorithms then where you from, most of the time

IronSide
07-01-18, 17:12
I wish there was a calculator or reference for levels of Basal Eurasian in modern populations.
Going by this calculator, if we take half the ancestry of Natufians as Basal Eurasian, then Europeans have from 15-20% BEu, and Near Easterners 25-30%, is that accurate ?

Levels of Basal Eurasian in Ancient samples:

https://media.nature.com/m685/nature-assets/nature/journal/v536/n7617/images/nature19310-f2.jpg

if modern Europeans cluster with Europe_LNBA then they would have from 15-25% BEu, while Near Easterners would have 25-35%

from Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature19310).

Sile
07-01-18, 18:13
mine below

gedrosia K6 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 43.33
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 35.70
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.66


Finished reading population data. 136 populations found.
6 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian @ 2.735283
2 Romanian @ 3.874132
3 Croatian @ 4.668196
4 Greek @ 5.597648
5 Albanian @ 7.277499
6 Sicilian @ 8.948083
7 Spanish @ 9.762009
8 Italian_South @ 10.042373
9 Hungarian @ 10.336728
10 French @ 10.653173
11 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 11.233868
12 Czech @ 12.551389
13 English @ 12.764177
14 Ukrainian @ 13.358443
15 Scottish @ 13.787315
16 Norwegian @ 14.155935
17 Jew_Moroccan @ 15.594926
18 Armenia_ChL @ 15.976079
19 Icelandic @ 16.279020
20 Basque @ 16.574711

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% Lithuanian @ 1.804555


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% French +25% Georgian +25% Spanish @ 1.297227


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
1 Anatolia_N + EHG + Europe_EN + Europe_EN @ 0.000000
2 Basque + Georgian + Greek + Icelandic @ 0.914001


0.000000 ?

IronSide
10-01-18, 12:42
And what about Ancient North Eurasian ? Near Easterners have high levels of ANE according to this calculator (mine is 23%), unlike what is reported in this map:

http://img.index.hu/imgfrm/6/9/1/7/BIG_0013276917.png

Levels of ANE admixture in Near Easterners is mostly due to Iranian/Caucasus ancestry since the Bronze Age.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-voBU6e60Ox8/V-EUTr9ioUI/AAAAAAAAFY0/_l8r07RsZd4fg6ORn-WbI_mU8GeiZmQMQCLcB/s1600/14avas9.jpg

almost half of Iranian Neolithic ancestry is from ANE, and it was higher in CHG and Iranian Chalcolithic, who might have been the direct source of admixture in Near Easterners.

ANE first appears in the Bronze Age, this is Levant Neolithic:



Ancestral_North_Eurasian

-



Ancestral_South_Eurasian

-



East_Asian

0.34



West_European_Hunter_Gartherer

12.61



Natufian

85.14



Sub_Saharan

1.90





and this is Levant Bronze Age:




Ancestral_North_Eurasian

18.45



Ancestral_South_Eurasian

-



East_Asian

0.61



West_European_Hunter_Gartherer

18.31



Natufian

60.90



Sub_Saharan

1.73





Iran Chalcolithic:



Ancestral_North_Eurasian

44.49



Ancestral_South_Eurasian

1.22



East_Asian

-



West_European_Hunter_Gartherer

-



Natufian

54.29



Sub_Saharan

-




So I guess this calculator is accurate to some degree.

susembe
12-01-18, 00:01
i am half Azeri half turk. Pretty spot on, this calculation.


1. Turkish
2. Azeri
3. Balkar
4. Adygei
5. Kumuk

snkves
24-08-19, 16:20
Ancient Eurasia K6 Oracle results:
gedrosia K6 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 42.77
2 Natufian 34.75
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 19.68
4 East_Asian 2.49
5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian 2.3
2 Hungarian 2.79
3 Czech 2.82
4 Norwegian 3.63
5 Scottish 3.73
6 English 3.84
7 Croatian 5.39
8 French 5.5
9 Icelandic 5.79
10 Europe_LNBA 6.27
11 Estonian 8.12
12 Romanian 8.66
13 Russian 9.19
14 Lithuanian 9.24
15 Spanish 9.98
16 Finnish 10.22
17 Bulgarian 10.28
18 Steppe_MLBA 10.79
19 Basque 12.03
20 Albanian 15.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.9% Ukrainian + 7.1% Turkish 0.8
2 92.8% Czech + 7.2% Tajik 0.82
3 79.7% Estonian + 20.3% Cypriot 0.87
4 93.8% Czech + 6.2% Turkmen 0.89
5 93.8% Ukrainian + 6.2% Cypriot 0.96
6 83.2% Icelandic + 16.8% Turkish 0.97
7 72.5% Estonian + 27.5% Italian_South 0.97
8 94.4% Ukrainian + 5.6% Druze 1.03
9 94.4% Ukrainian + 5.6% Azeri 1.04
10 95% Ukrainian + 5% Jew_iraqi 1.05
11 93.3% Ukrainian + 6.7% Balkar 1.05
12 94.4% Ukrainian + 5.6% Lebanese 1.06
13 91.2% Ukrainian + 8.8% Italian_South 1.06
14 94.9% Czech + 5.1% Burusho 1.06
15 95.3% Ukrainian + 4.7% Levant_BA 1.08
16 94.9% Ukrainian + 5.1% Assyrian 1.08
17 95.2% Ukrainian + 4.8% Jew_Yemenite 1.08
18 95% Ukrainian + 5% Jew_Iranian 1.08
19 95.1% Ukrainian + 4.9% Saudi 1.08
20 89.1% Ukrainian + 10.9% Greek 1.1